| refracta_noob | su -c gparted complains about "No protocol specified" "cannot open display: :0.0" - and when I try it from the applications menu entry it also doesn't work. | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| refracta_noob | 'sudo gparted' complains of the same | 00:03 |
| refracta_noob | trying gparted-pkexec, polkit-agent-helper-1 complains of "No session for cookie" even though /usr/lib/policykit-1/polkitd is running | 00:08 |
| refracta_noob | I just wonder if I didn't somehow make a mistake during the install. | 00:08 |
| golinux | refracta_noob: Install gksu then gksu synaptic. | 00:13 |
| freem | refracta_noob, well, if it says "cannot open display: :0.0" then you can set the DISPLAY variable to that value. Which would be "su -c 'DISPLAY=:0.0 gparted'" | 00:18 |
| freem | but, honestly, 0.0 is a value I've never seen affected to this variable. | 00:19 |
| freem | anyway this, with xdotools, would allow you to send an input to computer of a colleague for a joke, or more serious usages :) | 00:20 |
| freem | I wonder if this would would imply "needs_root_rights=yes" into the xorg config file, though. | 00:21 |
| freem | hum.... speaking about running X11 stuff as root, do anyone know how I could run an X11 application as a daemon? At work, I've that need, and am using a workaround that consists of changing tty1's getty to autolog on a user, and that user have a .profile that says autorun xinit, which reads .xinitrc to start the damn GUI... | 00:24 |
| freem | it's quite the pile of crap, and it implies creating a dedicated user. I'm almost certain I could simplify the setup, but can't think how... | 00:25 |
| refracta_noob | thanks golinux, that worked like a charm | 00:27 |
| barnyard | heyyo | 00:29 |
| barnyard | I have a question | 00:29 |
| gnarface | freem: if you need to leave a gui program running, most people would just use VNC to reattach to that desktop | 00:29 |
| barnyard | for some reason I'm having trouble getting my ralink based wifi dongle working | 00:29 |
| barnyard | I downloaded firmware-misc-nonfree | 00:29 |
| gnarface | that one may have it's own firmware package | 00:29 |
| barnyard | and have the non-free repos added to my sources.list | 00:30 |
| barnyard | nah | 00:30 |
| gnarface | there's a firmware package just for realtek firmwares | 00:30 |
| gnarface | isn't ralink realtek? | 00:30 |
| barnyard | firmware-ralink links me to firwmare-misc-nonfree | 00:30 |
| barnyard | I also have firmware-realtek installed | 00:30 |
| gnarface | oh. do you have wpasupplicant installed too? | 00:30 |
| barnyard | yeah | 00:30 |
| barnyard | and networkmanager | 00:30 |
| gnarface | hmm. | 00:31 |
| gnarface | does dmesg say anything interesting when the device is plugged in? | 00:31 |
| barnyard | my realtek based wifi dongle IS working however | 00:31 |
| barnyard | just not the belkan N150 ralink one | 00:31 |
| barnyard | Hmmm | 00:31 |
| barnyard | it does say realtek in the networkmanager nm-applet | 00:32 |
| barnyard | but I know for sure the firmware is installed | 00:32 |
| barnyard | and one dongle already works | 00:32 |
| barnyard | the belkan one works under windows | 00:32 |
| gnarface | not all the devices will work | 00:34 |
| gnarface | i can't tell you anything specific about these particular ones | 00:34 |
| gnarface | there's a list of known working devices in the kernel though | 00:34 |
| gnarface | if you start there at least you'd know for sure whether it's supposed to work or not | 00:34 |
| barnyard | it has worked under other distros in the past though | 00:35 |
| barnyard | like manjaro | 00:35 |
| gnarface | since you have one working i'm going to assume this isn't a case of user error | 00:35 |
| gnarface | what kernel version were you using in manjaro? | 00:35 |
| barnyard | 4.14 I think | 00:35 |
| barnyard | memory is hazy though | 00:35 |
| barnyard | could be 4.9 | 00:35 |
| gnarface | ascii only has kernel 4.9, so if you had a device that wasn't fixed until recently, that could be the issue | 00:35 |
| barnyard | I've ran that device under even 3.1 though | 00:36 |
| gnarface | this info should be easy to google up if you use the model# of the device | 00:36 |
| barnyard | still works | 00:36 |
| gnarface | regressions have happened | 00:36 |
| gnarface | i suppose it's also possible you just need to load the module manually | 00:36 |
| gnarface | or change some module option | 00:36 |
| barnyard | Belkin Components F7D1101 v1 Basic Wireless Adapter [Realtek RTL8188SU] | 00:37 |
| gnarface | what does dmesg say when you plug in the device for the first time after a fresh boot though? that's where you should look first for context sensitive info | 00:37 |
| gnarface | https://wiki.debian.org/rtl819x | 00:38 |
| gnarface | the debian wiki mentions that device by name | 00:38 |
| gnarface | it should work if you have firmware-realtek installed from non-free and the r8712u module loaded | 00:39 |
| barnyard | https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1522815&highlight=Belkin+F7D1101 | 00:39 |
| barnyard | I don't know if this works | 00:39 |
| refracta_noob | freem, xpra might be what you are looking for - another way might be to use xvfb | 00:39 |
| barnyard | gnarface: I don't think I have that module loaded | 00:39 |
| gnarface | the debian wiki also mentions some of them have to get an additional firmware file manually installed, but that's not one of them... | 00:39 |
| gnarface | barnyard: if you don't have the module loading automatically you can just add the name to the /etc/modules file | 00:40 |
| barnyard | whats the name of it again?, is it purely just r8712u? | 00:41 |
| gnarface | according to that wiki page, anyway | 00:41 |
| gnarface | which was last updated as of jessie | 00:41 |
| gnarface | sometimes they do change module names too | 00:42 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 00:42 |
| barnyard | oh ok | 00:42 |
| barnyard | have the debian page up | 00:42 |
| gnarface | maybe they did change the name actually, because i don't see it here anywhere in any of my kernels going all the way back to 3.1... | 00:43 |
| gnarface | that's weird | 00:43 |
| gnarface | i wonder if it's just not built in the stock kernel for debian | 00:44 |
| gnarface | it wouldn't be unheard-of for manjaro and ubuntu to have wildly different kernel configs | 00:44 |
| barnyard | yeah on the debian page it just points me to install firmware-realtek | 00:44 |
| barnyard | does contrib apply to devuan too, because I don't have that on my sources.list | 00:45 |
| gnarface | yes, i usually enable contrib and non-free together because a lot of stuff in there is intertwined | 00:45 |
| gnarface | the debian wiki leads to here: https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/rtl819x | 00:47 |
| barnyard | what sites are using for repos | 00:47 |
| barnyard | I'm using the standard deb.devuan.org/merged | 00:47 |
| gnarface | which mentions an entirely different "rtl8192su" out-of-tree usb driver | 00:48 |
| gnarface | (which i also don't see installed anywhere on my box) | 00:48 |
| gnarface | i'm using the same on my ascii boxes | 00:48 |
| gnarface | but i'm also not seeing this driver in ceres, either | 00:48 |
| gnarface | this is a curious mystery | 00:49 |
| barnyard | standard, updates, and security? | 00:49 |
| gnarface | yea | 00:49 |
| barnyard | maybe I should add backports | 00:49 |
| gnarface | the case of the missing driver | 00:49 |
| gnarface | i can't imagine it'd be in backports | 00:49 |
| gnarface | you could try though | 00:49 |
| gnarface | you could try the backport kernel | 00:49 |
| gnarface | i have a feeling something else weird must have happened | 00:49 |
| gnarface | this driver must have been renamed or something | 00:49 |
| gnarface | anyway | 00:50 |
| gnarface | i'm out of ideas, but i don't think this problem is self-inflicted | 00:50 |
| barnyard | I see, thanks for your help anyway | 00:50 |
| gnarface | i'm hesitant to even call it a bug though because there's a huge paper trail suggesting this driver actually exists... | 00:50 |
| gnarface | so there's something we're both missing here, sorry | 00:50 |
| barnyard | I'll try compiling the source for the github driver | 00:51 |
| gnarface | worth a try | 00:51 |
| barnyard | wait | 00:52 |
| barnyard | mine is RTL8188SU | 00:52 |
| freem | 00:29:28 <gnarface> freem: if you need to leave a gui program running, most people would just use VNC to reattach to that desktop => no,sorry, I need to run something like a session manager | 00:55 |
| freem | 00:39:25 <refracta_noob> freem, xpra might be what you are looking for - another way might be to use xvfb => well, I do not know what xpra is for, I'll take a look | 00:56 |
| freem | hum... xpra may be a good pointer, maybe the tool I need, thanks refracta_noob, I'll RTFM it | 00:57 |
| refracta_noob | my pleasure | 00:58 |
| gnarface | freem: as i understand it you would run VNC *and* a session-manager | 00:59 |
| gnarface | freem: (i guess that means you wanted multi-user access for this, which isn't assumed by VNC itself but neither precluded by it) | 01:00 |
| gnarface | freem: another option would be to just run multiple instances of Xorg in parallel. nothing is stopping you from doing that | 01:00 |
| gnarface | they could each have their own VNC instance | 01:00 |
| gnarface | that actually might be better if you're assuming that sometimes multiple users may need to remotely access different desktops concurrently | 01:01 |
| gnarface | as far as i know there's no session-managers that also offer remote access but i could be wrong... | 01:02 |
| freem | well, I was not accurate enough | 01:05 |
| freem | gnarface, At work, we are building stuff to recharge electrical vehicles. This mean, we need a GUI, that autostarts (in case something is wrong and the system reboots). No multiuser there, execpt when I take control via ssh | 01:07 |
| gnarface | session managers will auto-start the GUI as part of their job automatically, so that's taken care of, but you'd still have to log in by default with all of them. i know that some of them at least can be configured to auto-login then though. | 01:08 |
| freem | here is my problem: now, I have to create a user with a HOME containing said application (it's an electron crap... against my will) to autostart things | 01:08 |
| gnarface | yea, the auto-login user still has to exist | 01:08 |
| freem | hum | 01:08 |
| gnarface | you can't just auto-login as nobody | 01:09 |
| gnarface | unix doesn't work like that | 01:09 |
| gnarface | there's no "guest" account unless you make a user and call it guest yourself | 01:09 |
| gnarface | and then you'll still have to manually configure auto-login and permissions and such | 01:09 |
| gnarface | but, the plus side is you only have to do it all once | 01:09 |
| freem | In practice, the best would be to write a script that runs as root and drop rights, like, say, gdm | 01:09 |
| gnarface | that should be possible. up until recently, the default was to do that actually. some drivers still require it (*cough* nvidia *cough*) | 01:10 |
| freem | a kiosk, if that word mean something | 01:10 |
| barnyard | my dream os is a microkernel with a risc-v vm running on top of with all the userland in scheme and lua | 01:10 |
| freem | heh | 01:11 |
| gnarface | now, most the current open-source drivers launch as your user by default instead of as root but it's easy to change it back | 01:11 |
| freem | let's be honest... if you wan' t clean code, don't use FSF's code | 01:11 |
| freem | trolling apart... I would like to run that X11 soft by runit | 01:12 |
| freem | this would allow me to start it only when conditions are ok, and so, to reduce log pollution | 01:12 |
| freem | oh this would also help log recollection | 01:13 |
| freem | not sure if you see what I mean | 01:13 |
| freem | I don't even know why I'm thinking about work at this hour btw.... | 01:14 |
| gnarface | just remember not to overcomplicate it by trying to avoid doing things the way they were intended to be done, that's the only real advice i can give you | 01:16 |
| gnarface | what you're trying to accomplish sounds like 3 completely solved problems to me | 01:17 |
| gnarface | if you try to compress them into one solution you run the risk of making something that's exponentially more complicated and less well future-proofed | 01:17 |
| freem | fact is, I do not know how to redirect to logs of the final app to the standard log dirs | 01:17 |
| gnarface | well you can just write them there if you want | 01:18 |
| gnarface | if you name them right, logrotate will even pick them up without adding extra rules | 01:18 |
| freem | this is my major problem. Hum.... I could just create a folder with good rights, on the other hand | 01:18 |
| gnarface | but if you want to do it the "right way" you'd read up on rsyslogd | 01:18 |
| gnarface | yea, you can do it manually or you can lean on rsyslogd to manage it for you | 01:19 |
| gnarface | native programs take both approaches | 01:19 |
| freem | I don't use rsyslog, but svlogd. Does not matter, really, most of the time. Except that cron is not able to log to stdout, so I used busybox cron insted | 01:19 |
| gnarface | ok, yea any syslog daemon, i guess. there are a few to choose from. | 01:20 |
| gnarface | rsyslogd is just the venerable default | 01:20 |
| freem | well, I had a problem here | 01:20 |
| gnarface | couldn't debootstrap with rsyslogd in the package list? known issue, it's been fixed. | 01:20 |
| freem | some softs just use a damned non configurable unix socket | 01:21 |
| gnarface | oh hmm | 01:21 |
| gnarface | i can't tell you much about that | 01:21 |
| freem | ah, no, at work, we don't use devuan, sorry. | 01:21 |
| freem | Oh, I guess so, but I can say a bit | 01:21 |
| freem | I used runit to manage services. I really think it's a very good init system, or at least watchdog | 01:22 |
| freem | but some debian's daemons only accept to write to an unix socket, not to stderr or stdout. Like cron. | 01:23 |
| freem | so, I basically used busybox crond, which works.... except that the Debian built version does not implement the @features | 01:23 |
| freem | took me a while to figure it out, I had to check the only exact doc: source code. | 01:24 |
| freem | I wonder, what is devuan's point of view about tools like busybox? | 01:25 |
| gnarface | i can't say in any official capacity | 01:26 |
| freem | sure, but what's your opinion? Just follow the debian way? | 01:27 |
| freem | I won't quote you, I promise | 01:27 |
| gnarface | my understanding of it is that everything that was accepted by debian is accepted by devuan except systemd and other related things that were purposely designed to interfere with the previous things | 01:27 |
| gnarface | even systemd they TRIED to accept | 01:28 |
| gnarface | but it was just too much work to neuter it | 01:28 |
| gnarface | so they had to throw that out along with anything tied to it too strictly | 01:28 |
| gnarface | busybox as i understand it classifies as "harmless" | 01:28 |
| gnarface | and it's in the repos still | 01:29 |
| freem | busybox is not related in any way with systemd. In practice, I think it's devs are mostly against systemd | 01:29 |
| gnarface | so i think you're safe using busybox if you want | 01:29 |
| freem | but, debian, the "universal" system, does not build it full options | 01:29 |
| freem | which implies the doc is not synced with features | 01:30 |
| gnarface | that's not uncommon and may be entirely unrelated to anything | 01:30 |
| gnarface | sometimes things just slip through the cracks | 01:30 |
| gnarface | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt | 01:30 |
| gnarface | here's the list of actually banned packages | 01:30 |
| freem | also, busybox provides a tons of tools, and the busybox package could provide alternatives to a lot of stuff | 01:30 |
| gnarface | these packages were all banned because they couldn't be untethered from systemd, or were useless without it | 01:31 |
| freem | banned packages? There are packages that are just banned? | 01:31 |
| freem | oh | 01:31 |
| gnarface | it's not a long list | 01:31 |
| refracta_noob | (because they require systemd, for the most part right?) | 01:32 |
| gnarface | and if you look on the forums, you'll see most the stuff that was popular, people have provided alternatives to | 01:32 |
| freem | I don't wan't to forbid stuff, honestly | 01:32 |
| gnarface | refracta_noob: yea, because they require it and couldn't even feasibly be patched not to | 01:32 |
| gnarface | refracta_noob: lots of stuff has been rebuilt "--without-systemd" where possible | 01:32 |
| freem | I just wonder why the busybox package is not more nicely integrated, I thought there would other reasons than lack of willpower | 01:33 |
| gnarface | freem: essentially the thing is these are pacakges that implicitly forbid other packages that had no good reason (in the devaun maintainer's eyes) to be forbidden | 01:33 |
| freem | and manpower (comes with willpower) | 01:33 |
| refracta_noob | oh wow plymouth made the list... is there an alternative to that? I was hoping to dig into bootsplashes later | 01:33 |
| gnarface | freem: there could be security or stability reasons related to why debian might have avoided building in certain options. i've seen that a few times. | 01:33 |
| freem | like, avoiding @options in the busybox crond ? I think politics might be there too | 01:34 |
| gnarface | refracta_noob: i don't know anything about plymouth specifically, but in theory you could try porting forward an older pre-systemd version if such a thing can still be found... | 01:34 |
| freem | tbh, busybox code is a lot more cleaner than gnu's one | 01:35 |
| gnarface | i'm sure a lot of talk about this has happened on the forums, but i don't know where specifically: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | 01:35 |
| gnarface | (despite the weird domain name that's the official forum) | 01:35 |
| freem | honestly, I doubt it. busybox is a strange tool | 01:36 |
| freem | I mean, it's hard to get a hand about how to use it. I did, because I messed my system too many times | 01:36 |
| freem | I think it's not about bad will, at least, currently | 01:37 |
| filipdevuan | how do i open files like this in terminal using wine?? the file is called diablo III.exe when i type wine diablo iii.exe i get cannot find xx/.diablo.exe | 01:37 |
| freem | filipdevuan, you need to feed the filename to wine | 01:37 |
| gnarface | if it's in the default wine prefix, just be in the directory with it that should be enough | 01:38 |
| freem | which means, for example, "# wine ~'/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/foobar/Diablo.exe'" | 01:38 |
| filipdevuan | but the file name is diablo iii.exe | 01:38 |
| filipdevuan | :P | 01:38 |
| filipdevuan | with spacebar | 01:38 |
| gnarface | you can escape spaces with \ or you can just quote the filename | 01:39 |
| gnarface | wine "diablo iii.exe" | 01:39 |
| gnarface | or | 01:39 |
| freem | the # makes all the stuff a comment, to avoid stupid copy/paste | 01:39 |
| gnarface | wine diablo\ iii.exe | 01:39 |
| gnarface | it will be case-sensitive though, because your filesystem is | 01:39 |
| gnarface | fyi though you should probably be launching diabloIII from the battle.net launcher | 01:40 |
| gnarface | not from wine directly | 01:40 |
| freem | you have no way to be certain of that, gnarface :) but it's probable yes | 01:40 |
| gnarface | well it depends on whether the battle.net client is broke this week in wine or not | 01:40 |
| freem | (about case-sensitiveness) | 01:40 |
| filipdevuan | okay | 01:41 |
| filipdevuan | well im just trying to run diablo 3 under optirun | 01:41 |
| filipdevuan | but ill just optirun battle.net then | 01:41 |
| gnarface | er uh | 01:41 |
| gnarface | oh my | 01:41 |
| gnarface | yea that's a mess, i don't know the trick | 01:41 |
| freem | hehe | 01:41 |
| gnarface | you might have to ask in #winehq | 01:41 |
| filipdevuan | ill have look with battle.net xD | 01:41 |
| gnarface | or, somewhat ironically, even #nouveau | 01:41 |
| freem | I second | 01:41 |
| gnarface | filipdevuan: check the winehq wiki page for diablo3 too, there were some weird workarounds specific to D3 to dodge their server-side watchdog thing that i don't know if they're still required or not | 01:42 |
| filipdevuan | ok thx | 01:43 |
| gnarface | (apparently it heavily objects to seeing stuff reporting itself as a i386 with more than 3.5GB of ram) | 01:43 |
| gnarface | for some reason that doesn't bother WoW or SC2 though... | 01:43 |
| gnarface | dunno why | 01:43 |
| freem | gnarface, do you know any pointer to a doc that would help me to make busybox a clean alternative to all applets it provides? Like, less? | 01:44 |
| freem | gnarface, it's names PAE I think | 01:44 |
| gnarface | sorry freem, i don't really know anything about busybox other than it's annoying | 01:45 |
| freem | annoying? Well, I thought the same, at 1st | 01:45 |
| freem | now that I know more the posix tools, I thinks it's a lot useful, but yeah, manpages could help | 01:46 |
| nacelle | yeah you have to use PAE to get over 4GB on 32bit, period, but you usually have 512mb or more taken up for address space of the bus devices and such | 01:46 |
| nacelle | it works well | 01:46 |
| gnarface | nacelle: yea, the thing is Windows can't do that, so it triggers some anti-cheat protector no the D3 servers. or at least used to | 01:46 |
| gnarface | s/no/on/ | 01:47 |
| freem | nacelle, you need PAE to use more than 4Gio per process, IIRC, just that? | 01:47 |
| gnarface | you need PAE to even be able to address more than 4GB | 01:47 |
| nacelle | windows has a PAE mode | 01:47 |
| gnarface | if you don't have a 64-bit chip | 01:47 |
| gnarface | does it really? | 01:47 |
| gnarface | did it when D3 launched? | 01:47 |
| freem | true | 01:47 |
| nacelle | most likely | 01:48 |
| gnarface | this is all about a specific thing in the D3 server cheat protection stuff | 01:48 |
| gnarface | i think they called it "warden" ? | 01:48 |
| freem | there was a windows XP 64 bit after all | 01:48 |
| nacelle | its probably been in since win2kish/p4 era | 01:48 |
| nacelle | win2k had a lot of stuff in it | 01:48 |
| nacelle | like it supports symlinks | 01:48 |
| nacelle | who knew? | 01:48 |
| nacelle | dont get me wrong | 01:48 |
| nacelle | windows is still a piece of software designed to run windows apps and thats it :-) | 01:48 |
| freem | I think windows kernel must be nice, it's the windows distro that sucks | 01:49 |
| gnarface | oh hmm, i'm looking at my scripts and i don't appear to be using it anymore. maybe this is outdated | 01:49 |
| gnarface | WINEARCH="win64" WINEPREFIX=$WINEPREFIX WINEDEBUG=-all wine Diablo\ III\ Launcher.exe >/dev/null 2>&1 & | 01:49 |
| gnarface | this is working now | 01:49 |
| gnarface | but i used to have to launch it like this: | 01:49 |
| gnarface | #WINEPREFIX=$WINEPREFIX LD_PRELOAD="libpthread.so.0 libGL.so.1" __GL_THREADED_OPTIMIZATIONS=1 WINEDEBUG=-all setarch i386 -3 wine-development Diablo\ III\ Launcher.exe >/dev/null 2>&1 & | 01:49 |
| gnarface | (the "setarch i386 -3" is the magic part there) | 01:49 |
| freem | one-liners should be forbiden! | 01:49 |
| gnarface | why? they made all our displays widescreen, so why not use it? | 01:50 |
| gnarface | that one barely goes more than half way | 01:50 |
| freem | because I can't read one without turning head, which imply a useless loss of energy, that's not green :} | 01:50 |
| freem | my life is dedicated to reducing efforts | 01:51 |
| freem | but, widescreens are nice | 01:53 |
| gnarface | fair enough, to each their own | 01:53 |
| freem | they allow to read more files at once, if those have decent formatting rule | 01:54 |
| freem | now, I can't understand why random people love widescreen | 01:55 |
| freem | their GUIs takes much heights, leaving lot of empty space on widths? | 01:55 |
| freem | for geeks, ok, some of us know how to use that efficiently, but normal people with normal softwares? | 01:56 |
| freem | also, I'm not sure what a desktop environment is, really. | 01:58 |
| Xenguy | freem: Graphical environment, icons you can click etc.; without it, you are at a virtual console | 02:03 |
| Xenguy | i.e. command line | 02:03 |
| Xenguy | only | 02:03 |
| freem | Xenguy: sure, but, it is usually a set of tools, too, and I would like to know, which one are considered in a minimal DE? | 02:06 |
| Xenguy | Can you elaborate, or expand on that? | 02:07 |
| Xenguy | Or give an example? | 02:07 |
| freem | hardly. After all, I don't understand people. | 02:07 |
| freem | But | 02:08 |
| freem | People seems, to me, to say a DE must have a set of mandatory tools | 02:08 |
| Xenguy | Any specific tools you need? | 02:09 |
| freem | not really. In practice, I'd like to build a package that depends on a tiling WM and those minimal tools, to help people think differently | 02:10 |
| freem | I'm already using that kind of setuf, of course, but, I'm not really a normal user... | 02:11 |
| Xenguy | The 2 main graphical environments are Desktop Environments (DE), and Window Managers (WM, which are more light-weight graphical environments) | 02:11 |
| freem | this is wrong | 02:11 |
| Xenguy | How so? | 02:11 |
| freem | WM are parts of DEs | 02:11 |
| freem | they are not againts, they are parts | 02:11 |
| Xenguy | That can happen | 02:11 |
| Xenguy | In any case, I'm trying to remember a tiling WM that seems decent... | 02:12 |
| freem | on the other hand, all DE I know are based on floating WM | 02:12 |
| freem | Xenguy, i3? | 02:12 |
| Xenguy | I think that's the one | 02:12 |
| Xenguy | I haven't tried it yet, but I see good reviews | 02:13 |
| freem | this one is quite popular (I'm using it, so I may be biased) but, it is just a single tool | 02:13 |
| freem | if you wan't my opinion on it, just ask | 02:14 |
| Xenguy | Sure, I'm interested | 02:14 |
| freem | you'll have direct replies from a real user :) | 02:14 |
| freem | Well. My opinion is that it's nice because with the right tools, you can forgot the mouse. | 02:15 |
| Xenguy | I like that (prefer keyboard-driven software) | 02:15 |
| freem | Using workspaces is then a lot more natural, same for command line | 02:15 |
| Xenguy | So no time wasted moving windows around, which sounds good | 02:16 |
| Xenguy | I like Vim too, so keyboards FTW y'know | 02:16 |
| freem | exact, all tiling wm will give you optimal screen usage | 02:17 |
| Xenguy | I assume it uses a lot of hot keys? | 02:17 |
| freem | only the ones you define | 02:17 |
| freem | unlike that bloatware of vim | 02:17 |
| Xenguy | haha | 02:17 |
| freem | still, I3 is not perfect | 02:18 |
| Xenguy | You can pry my vim out of my cold dead hands | 02:18 |
| freem | Hey, I use vim as my main editor | 02:18 |
| Xenguy | What are i3 cons? | 02:18 |
| Xenguy | brb | 02:18 |
| freem | the focus, for example | 02:18 |
| freem | I think focus move could be easier | 02:19 |
| freem | also, the status bar is not configurable enough. It's hard coded, and so can only be high or low, not right or left | 02:20 |
| filipdevuan | today i managed to run gothic 2 tes iv oblivion and diablo 3 under wine on devuan i cant believe it devuan is incredible whoever made it is amazing | 02:20 |
| filipdevuan | on linux mint i had problem with just gothic 2... windows 10 couldnt run gothic 2 and oblivion properly. devuan runs them all | 02:21 |
| freem | filipdevuan, you know, devuan is only a fork | 02:21 |
| filipdevuan | what does it mean fork | 02:21 |
| freem | it's a branch of another FOSS project | 02:21 |
| refracta_noob | Eeri Kask's patches for TWM made it my favorite WM - plus I actually think it's a feature that it lacks EWMH because it allows me to do nice things like make youtube windows of an arbitrary size and I do this all the time to have music or video on while working on stuff. I know TWM's like 30yrs old but I actually love it so much I got interested in Refracta and by extension Devuan so that I could | 02:21 |
| filipdevuan | so what does it mean then? | 02:21 |
| refracta_noob | roll my own installer for my preferred set up. | 02:21 |
| freem | mint is a fork of ubuntu, which is itself a fork of debian. | 02:22 |
| freem | devuan is a fork of debian | 02:22 |
| filipdevuan | nice | 02:22 |
| filipdevuan | maybe tahts why they killed ian murdock | 02:22 |
| filipdevuan | cuz hes made debian too amazing system | 02:22 |
| freem | haha, maybe yes, but he was not the inventor of that way of thinking | 02:23 |
| filipdevuan | well yeah i think death by hanging himself up using hoover cable is death deserved for crap person... ;/ | 02:24 |
| freem | FOSS allows to just do what you wan't and share it. Knowledge is more precious than gold, but onlly when it's shared | 02:24 |
| freem | the important thing is now why he died, but what we remember him for. | 02:25 |
| Xenguy | Hear hear | 02:26 |
| Xenguy | RIP Ian | 02:26 |
| Xenguy | He created an amazing system | 02:26 |
| filipdevuan | yeah i think somebody killed him i dont think he killed himself | 02:27 |
| * gnarface sighs | 02:27 | |
| gnarface | seconded | 02:27 |
| freem | he was the guy which invented the system I used to learn how an almost POSIX system work with nice doc I'll be grateful forever | 02:27 |
| freem | Ian Murdock is not that dead | 02:27 |
| Xenguy | He was pretty wasted the night he died, so I wouldn't doubt that suicide could have happened | 02:28 |
| filipdevuan | anyway im testing diablo 3 now and it works great fucking hell <3 im so suprised that everything works so well on devuan so far... | 02:28 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: i think it was "assisted" suicide | 02:28 |
| gnarface | or the video wouldn't have mysteriously disappeared | 02:28 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: That's chilling to contemplate | 02:28 |
| Xenguy | I wouldn't have thought it likely; is there some evidence to suggest this interpretation? | 02:29 |
| gnarface | filipdevuan: grats :) glad you got it working | 02:29 |
| freem | What I know, is that anyway, the foundator of the DFSG won't die until long | 02:29 |
| refracta_noob | p.s. kudos on an excellent fontconfig configuration out of the box - Ubuntu never seemed to get this right but this worked perfect on my 4K TV right out of the box | 02:29 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: there's some suspicious circumstances involving the dispute with his neighbor that were never explained | 02:29 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: (Should we take this to #debianfork, or ...?) | 02:29 |
| filipdevuan | yeah its amazing how everything works even gothic 2 iv had problems with running gothic 2 propperly for nearly 5 years on different OSES and it appeared to run perfectly on devuan and this is amazing | 02:30 |
| filipdevuan | diablo 3 works as well it seems like to me everythings gonna work under wine on devuan... | 02:30 |
| filipdevuan | whats really funny is that i get more FPS in diablo 3 on devuan than i had on windows 10 this is just incredible | 02:33 |
| filipdevuan | i mean devuan doesnt use 50% of my ram memory it only does 10% xD | 02:33 |
| filipdevuan | oh my god devuan is like heaven in the computer to me at the moment i wonder how runescape 3 NXT gonna be xD damn | 02:33 |
| filipdevuan | the performance i get from this game on devuan is so much nicer and more satisfying than from windows 10 im just so excited | 02:34 |
| refracta_noob | think it would be possible to bring fbsplash over to devuan, from gentoo? it's a bootsplash without systemd https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Fbsplash | 02:37 |
| tsuggs | Is there a devuan image for chromeveyron embedded systems? There used to be one in jessie but I cannot find one for ascii. | 02:39 |
| refracta_noob | might this help? https://git.devuan.org/sdk/arm-sdk | 02:41 |
| buZz | filipdevuan: fun fact, thats what Valve realized when they first started porting games to linux | 02:42 |
| filipdevuan | xD | 02:42 |
| buZz | https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/02/valve_games_faster_on_linux/ | 02:42 |
| buZz | refracta_noob: does plymouth depend on systemd? | 02:43 |
| refracta_noob | buZz, unfortunately it would appear so | 02:43 |
| buZz | hmm, i do have in apt? but only a X11 renderer? | 02:44 |
| buZz | oh wait, thats from debian :P | 02:44 |
| refracta_noob | Ubuntu had this weird thing with X, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XSplash | 02:46 |
| tsuggs | refracta_noob: it might, thank you for sending! | 02:47 |
| filipdevuan | yeah they do run faster on linux | 02:47 |
| refracta_noob | I noticed on Ubuntu, at least with 16.04 and later, scheduler performance or something seemed to take a crap... it was awful and not just because of the Gnome jvm memory leak | 02:48 |
| gnarface | tsuggs: yea i dunno what's up with the missing chromeveyron image for ascii. someone was just in here yesterday asking about building their own but i didn't realize there was one for jessie. maybe they know in #devuan-arm | 02:49 |
| gnarface | refracta_noob: doesn't grub have native boot splash graphic support? | 02:50 |
| filipdevuan | how to run an app from desktop in terminal??? | 02:50 |
| tsuggs | gnarface: didn't know there was a specific channel for it, I'll join and maybe ask later | 02:50 |
| tsuggs | thanks! | 02:50 |
| gnarface | np | 02:50 |
| filipdevuan | what command is it ;P | 02:50 |
| refracta_noob | ah nice, I didn't know it had that | 02:51 |
| filipdevuan | oh ok using optirun | 02:51 |
| gnarface | filipdevuan: you mean you want to run a shell program from a desktop icon or something? | 02:51 |
| filipdevuan | yeah used optirun it works ;P | 02:51 |
| gnarface | oh alright | 02:52 |
| gnarface | just fyi most terminal programs will accept a command to run at open | 02:52 |
| gnarface | you could just make an icon to run that whole command | 02:52 |
| gnarface | or wrap it in a bash script and make an icon for that instead | 02:52 |
| Xenguy | or create an alias | 02:52 |
| gnarface | oh, yea or an alias i guess | 02:52 |
| Xenguy | hehe | 02:52 |
| Xenguy | Some folks just want to go minimal; I think I may be one | 02:53 |
| filipdevuan | love to all devuan and linux people i cant believe how smooth and nice my games are on devuan oh my god is this even real? XD | 02:53 |
| Xenguy | We're all wondering the same thing : -) | 02:54 |
| filipdevuan | :P:P | 02:54 |
| filipdevuan | thanks to xrogaan who helped configure my gpu drivers for almost whole day lol | 02:55 |
| buZz | filipdevuan: pay it forward, help a local friend get devuan ;) | 02:58 |
| filipdevuan | yeah only if they wanted linux... ;p | 02:58 |
| buZz | hehe 'help' them while they're not watching | 02:58 |
| buZz | lol | 02:58 |
| buZz | no, dont do that ;) | 02:58 |
| Xenguy | You know you want to | 03:00 |
| filipdevuan | xD | 03:00 |
| tsuggs | Out of curiosity, does devuan stick to the whole main/contrib/nonfree repo structure debian has? | 03:24 |
| freem | AFAIK, yes | 03:25 |
| xrogaan | Yes! Sweet, sweet internet points. | 03:33 |
| freem | huh? | 03:35 |
| freem | I meant, xrogaan huh? | 03:35 |
| xrogaan | couples lines above your AFAIK. | 03:36 |
| freem | 02:58:38 <filipdevuan> yeah only if they wanted linux... ;p | 03:37 |
| freem | this ^ | 03:37 |
| freem | ? | 03:37 |
| filipdevuan | yeah ;d | 03:37 |
| filipdevuan | im trying to run runescape 3 nxt now but i get these errors | 03:39 |
| filipdevuan | 0183:err:d3dcompiler:compile_shader HLSL shader parsing failed. | 03:39 |
| filipdevuan | primus: warning: glXSwapBuffers: respawning threads after context change | 03:39 |
| freem | seriously.... why do I feel at home on irc, not Carint about being late at work... | 03:39 |
| freem | runninig it natively? | 03:40 |
| filipdevuan | nah, through wine okay im donwloading some d3dcompiler_43 now | 03:40 |
| filipdevuan | lets see if it changes something | 03:40 |
| freem | wine does not always work | 03:41 |
| filipdevuan | yeah got it | 03:41 |
| xrogaan | filipdevuan: IIRC there is a linux client for runescape | 03:41 |
| filipdevuan | well for me so far it always does with every game i managed to get gothic 2 working tes iv oblivion diablo 3 now runescape 3 ntx windows client its just AMAZING! | 03:41 |
| freem | hum, did you try the game in a VM? | 03:42 |
| filipdevuan | and diablo 2 works now too!! | 03:42 |
| filipdevuan | oh i just put that command winetricks d3dcompiler_43 and it now it works ;) | 03:42 |
| filipdevuan | its so easy now when i have my gpu drivers!! :P | 03:42 |
| freem | nice | 03:42 |
| filipdevuan | yeah :D | 03:42 |
| filipdevuan | i use search engine called searx.me and its erally good | 03:42 |
| freem | I'm glad to read someone being a happy linux gamer :) | 03:43 |
| filipdevuan | im downloading path of exile right now this is i think my last game to test if it runs well under winehq | 03:43 |
| filipdevuan | oh yeah im really happy especially that diablo 3 works much better than it did on windows 10 | 03:43 |
| filipdevuan | :P | 03:43 |
| filipdevuan | effects are nicer its smoother and id say graphics are better as well 3d is better i think | 03:43 |
| freem | I"m a now casual you know, I don't have the hardware to play | 03:44 |
| filipdevuan | i just cant believe how everything works better on devuan | 03:44 |
| filipdevuan | but i know why because windows 10 processes used 50% of my ram memory devuan uses only 10% | 03:44 |
| freem | from my memory, windows comes out of the box full on | 03:45 |
| xrogaan | really? | 03:45 |
| filipdevuan | windows 10 processes is a joke | 03:45 |
| freem | a very good windows admin can make it quite efficient | 03:46 |
| filipdevuan | this is why i left windows 10 because of some bullshit processes same thing happening on linux mint and linux fedora | 03:46 |
| xrogaan | I might want to try running battle.net on wine to get to starcraft2 | 03:46 |
| filipdevuan | yeah diablo 3 works amazing and battle.net works too apart from news feed from diablo 3 and friends list | 03:46 |
| xrogaan | I don't understand why there ain't a native linux client yet. They have one for mac. | 03:46 |
| filipdevuan | but diablo 3 works so far and im glad that it does | 03:46 |
| freem | at a time, I knew by heart the windows processes, and could divide by 2 the CPU usage | 03:47 |
| filipdevuan | effects look much cooler than on windows 10 theres more colours i think i dont know i think linux has better 3d rendering stuff here | 03:47 |
| freem | windows is not bad | 03:47 |
| xrogaan | microsoft is | 03:48 |
| filipdevuan | well everything works better on devuan for me so far | 03:48 |
| filipdevuan | every game and OS itself | 03:48 |
| filipdevuan | :P | 03:48 |
| filipdevuan | its unbelievable!! | 03:48 |
| freem | defaut install of it is bad, and windows admins are not good | 03:48 |
| xrogaan | windows adds ton of overhead where distros in general do not. | 03:48 |
| MinceR | windows is malware | 03:48 |
| freem | you are wrong | 03:48 |
| MinceR | no u | 03:49 |
| buZz | no u | 03:49 |
| xrogaan | in a sense, windows needs to make sure its integrity is sane, while on linux that's the job of the admin. | 03:49 |
| filipdevuan | nah its true that windows adds too many useless processes i dont need for example microsoft search process and antivirus to play a game | 03:49 |
| freem | windows aims to be easy to use, sacrificing lot of things | 03:49 |
| MinceR | the current version of windows spies on its user and downloads and executes code from microsoft without asking the user | 03:49 |
| xrogaan | MinceR: that's not malware, that's a service. | 03:50 |
| filipdevuan | you know whats funny my friend called me today hes had update downloaded from microsoft on his windows 7 and guess what it killed his pc it crashed and i had to come bring him windows 10 iso dvd lmao | 03:50 |
| buZz | MinceR: they worked really hard on that msdos shell and you should feel blessed of have been given the blissfull joy that was the interaction you had | 03:50 |
| MinceR | oh, right | 03:50 |
| freem | windows needs goods admins to avoid rotting | 03:50 |
| MinceR | when microsoft does it, it's a "service" | 03:50 |
| MinceR | despite the fact that the industry has fought against such "services" for decades | 03:50 |
| xrogaan | yeah, it's doing it for you :^) | 03:50 |
| freem | unix is easier to admin, sure | 03:51 |
| MinceR | buZz: the msdos shell is long gone, now it's a reimplemented vms pretending to be msdos :> | 03:51 |
| freem | but it needs learning | 03:51 |
| filipdevuan | i cant believe that devuan is free and its 5 times better than windows 10 it does everything better, it is quicker, laptop is quieter, battery lasts for 3-4 hours while windows 10 only lasted for 1,5 hours, games run smoother and its great system !!! | 03:51 |
| MinceR | vms pretending to be msdos pretending to be cp/m | 03:51 |
| buZz | ;) | 03:52 |
| golinux | #debianfork? Would be a better place for where this is going. | 03:52 |
| MinceR | indeed | 03:52 |
| buZz | golinux: ah, live a little :P | 03:52 |
| freem | filipdevuan, then, don't try other distros, you may be suprised | 03:52 |
| * golinux grumble at the wasted bytes | 03:52 | |
| filipdevuan | iv already tried ubuntu mint fedora and devuan is much much better than them!!! | 03:52 |
| xrogaan | really now? | 03:52 |
| freem | try voidlinux | 03:52 |
| golinux | #debianfork please. | 03:53 |
| xrogaan | try slackware | 03:53 |
| freem | if you feel good enough. For both. | 03:53 |
| freem | ok, golinux | 03:53 |
| golinux | Thanks. | 03:53 |
| freem | and sorry for noise | 03:54 |
| filipdevuan | and devuan make my laptop heat less!! | 03:54 |
| freem | hum... filipdevuan I'll explain you some things on #debianfork about that heat? | 03:55 |
| filipdevuan | ok | 03:55 |
| * bozonius2 sticks his head in, briefly, reads back through the IRC log and sees that people are having successful installs... and decides to do one himself | 03:55 | |
| buZz | check out 'powertop' , pretty cool stuff | 03:56 |
| filipdevuan | yeah im saying truth everything works better here than on windows 10 | 03:56 |
| filipdevuan | games dont crash | 03:56 |
| bozonius2 | "everything works better here than on Windows 10" | 03:56 |
| buZz | glad your experience has been so glorious filipdevuan :) | 03:56 |
| bozonius2 | NO: actually, everything works better than Windows, period. | 03:56 |
| filipdevuan | when i played diablo 3 on windows 10 and pressed alt tab then it took like 3-5 secs to get me to system devuan does than in 0,5 sec | 03:57 |
| * bozonius2 will be back after attempting an install, if it does not kill him of course | 03:57 | |
| filipdevuan | well i never had such a good experience with linux mint and fedora maybe because they have everything preinstalled and its harder to configure stuff | 03:57 |
| filipdevuan | yeah it is glorious indeed i just cant bbelieve what this distro does that i couldnt get on mint ubuntu and fedora lool | 03:58 |
| filipdevuan | im also glad that i decided to ditch systemd distros this is why i installed devuan | 03:58 |
| filipdevuan | wasnt expecting all of my fav games from windows gonna work like that on here LOL! | 03:59 |
| buZz | :P latest versions of wine are awesome | 03:59 |
| buZz | the 2.x and higher, support -so- much | 03:59 |
| filipdevuan | yeah actually devuan makes me happy finally i feel like im having OS that i want to have ;p | 03:59 |
| filipdevuan | ;d its a shame that i didnt get to run playonlinux at the end xD | 04:00 |
| filipdevuan | i should get devuan t-shirt for myself xD | 04:00 |
| buZz | and a sticker for the back of your screen? :) | 04:00 |
| filipdevuan | sticker for my bed actually xD | 04:01 |
| filipdevuan | i wanna sleep with devuan hahahah | 04:02 |
| buZz | you can print your own bedsheets, https://www.bagsoflove.com/products/bed-sheets | 04:02 |
| buZz | seems the devuan stickers on unixstickers are gone :( | 04:03 |
| filipdevuan | anyways my last game i wish to run is path of exile but im pretty sure ill get it running!!!! gothic 2 and diablo 3 runs so path of exile should too!!! sorry im not dev or anything like that i just decided to ditch windows for linux and then found out stuff about systemd so i decided to ditch systemd distros so then this is how i came here!! and im glad!! | 04:03 |
| buZz | \o/ | 04:03 |
| freem | using linux for games is a start as another, I guess | 04:03 |
| filipdevuan | nah im just bored so i install every windows game that i liked and they all work lmao | 04:04 |
| freem | I, personnally, love this system because I can play with it's mechanics | 04:05 |
| buZz | :P | 04:05 |
| filipdevuan | i know that with devuan my laptop gonna run for long but with windows you never know what to expect | 04:05 |
| filipdevuan | i think windows 10 was turning my laptop into zombie | 04:05 |
| filipdevuan | anyways its time to sleep thank you all!! tommorow its another great day of enjoying devuan experience, good night ;p | 04:06 |
| freem | duh | 04:07 |
| freem | sounds like a nice fanatic | 04:08 |
| freem | gtg | 04:08 |
| freem | see you later | 04:09 |
| buZz | probably just young ;) | 04:09 |
| xrogaan | which file system would be best on a drive that contain large files? | 04:15 |
| buZz | i tend to just use ext4 for anything, and bcache if i need that ext4 to be faster (combined with a fast ssd) | 04:19 |
| gnarface | xrogaan: depends really on just how large of files you have but xfs has the largest max file size | 04:29 |
| gnarface | there is a big chart on wikipedia you can use to compare features like that | 04:29 |
| gnarface | some benchmarks highlight that it's also the only multi-threaded filesystem so it makes a good choice for file servers | 04:30 |
| xrogaan | thanks | 04:41 |
| xrogaan | Size is in in the gigabytes. | 04:41 |
| xrogaan | i'll take a look at that wikipedia chart if I find it :) | 04:42 |
| gnarface | xrogaan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems#Limits | 04:47 |
| gnarface | an exhaustive list | 04:47 |
| gnarface | max file size isn't everything, but xfs also has really good figures for snapshotting and resizing | 04:48 |
| gnarface | as far as journaling filesystems go it's ancient though so it's not known for as good of behavior with regards to power failures during writes | 04:49 |
| gnarface | presumably if you're using this for something important though you have a battery backup | 04:49 |
| bozonius2 | will devuan be able to boot from a /boot partition that is ext4 on LVM? Or is this masochistic? | 05:30 |
| bozonius2 | i.e., is this a recipe predicted to fail, or is it possible and I should go ahead and try it? | 05:32 |
| bozonius2 | actually, I have a more basic question. How do I change the partitioning? I thought I was using expert graphical mode, so I expect it would allow me to make this type of change. I'm not seeing how to do it. | 06:39 |
| * bozonius2 is cursed | 06:39 | |
| bozonius2 | I'm using ascii net install 64 bit. I select Manual but I see no way to do the sorts of things I'd expect in "manual" partitioning like deleting and resizing partitions | 06:45 |
| bozonius2 | What is bozonius doing wrong? | 06:45 |
| SuicideJunkie | I was using the jessie version of that and did the partitioning, but that was a while ago. | 07:00 |
| SuicideJunkie | I'll try out the ascii install tomorrow. | 07:00 |
| gnarface | bozonius2: the partition tool in the installer will let you delete and add partitions but will not let you resize existing partitions. a better solution would be to resize using gparted from a live image | 07:01 |
| gnarface | no idea about ext4+LVM | 07:01 |
| gnarface | probably though, as long as it's not an ARM device with crippled u-boot support | 07:02 |
| gnarface | but there might be a trick to it | 07:02 |
| bozonius2 | I guess where I am stuck is that I can't figure out how to avoid the configuration it presents, even though I am requsting "manual" config! | 07:09 |
| bozonius2 | I don't expect any of the "guided" options to offer me a chance to delete or resize partitions. | 07:09 |
| SuicideJunkie | you don't have an option to delete the existing partitions? | 07:09 |
| bozonius2 | Not that I've found so far, no. | 07:10 |
| bozonius2 | Is there one? | 07:10 |
| bozonius2 | I see an option that lets me erase the partition, but not one that does delete | 07:10 |
| SuicideJunkie | Erase as in wipe the contents, but not the structure? | 07:10 |
| bozonius2 | Like I expected to be dropped into a bare-bones gparted or cfdisk sort of UI. | 07:11 |
| bozonius2 | And I could craft the entire disk arrangement from scratch. | 07:11 |
| bozonius2 | (I suppose the shell escape might work, but I figured "Manual" should do something like this) | 07:12 |
| SuicideJunkie | I'm reasonably sure I got such a thing when I first installed, but I was starting with a blank HDD out of the box. | 07:12 |
| bozonius2 | gnarface: This is a VM for now. | 07:12 |
| bozonius2 | This is the rough equivlent of blank HDD, SuicideJunkie | 07:13 |
| SuicideJunkie | You have existing partitions, do you not? | 07:13 |
| bozonius2 | In a brand new VM? No. | 07:13 |
| SuicideJunkie | How did you get an erase partition option with no partitions? | 07:14 |
| bozonius2 | Did you also use net install (Maybe that's the issue, though that would be weird) | 07:14 |
| SuicideJunkie | It was the net install for jessie | 07:14 |
| SuicideJunkie | But other than that, yeah. | 07:14 |
| bozonius2 | I chose expert graphical install, and when I get to partitioning, I select "manual" | 07:14 |
| bozonius2 | that option presents me with a pre-configured partitioning scheme, which I don't like. | 07:15 |
| bozonius2 | But I don't see a way to work past it | 07:15 |
| bozonius2 | the only other options are various guided modes (for LVM, etc) | 07:15 |
| gnarface | bozonius2: not the guided mode. there's a non-guided manual mode, but i forget what it's called. | 07:16 |
| bozonius2 | "Manual" | 07:16 |
| gnarface | bozonius2: it should give you a blank slate. i guarantee deleting partitions is an option too, but maybe it's not super intuitive (mabye it's in the same menu where you choose partition type?) | 07:16 |
| SuicideJunkie | What menu options do you get when you doubleclick the last partition listed? | 07:16 |
| gnarface | if it was a fresh VM from a blank disk image you should not be seeing precreated partitions unless you had run the guided partitioner once already without creating a fresh empty disk image | 07:17 |
| bozonius2 | Same as for the other ones, I think. | 07:17 |
| SuicideJunkie | partition type = none? | 07:17 |
| bozonius2 | ok, let me try this again. Gimme a moment... it doesn't take long | 07:17 |
| bozonius2 | (have to shut down another VM to allow ascii VM to run) | 07:18 |
| bozonius2 | first menu: I choose Advanced Options | 07:18 |
| gnarface | yep, then expert mode | 07:19 |
| gnarface | i never choose graphical but i hear it works almost as well as the plain ncurses one these days | 07:19 |
| gnarface | they won't provide different options unless there is a bug though | 07:19 |
| gnarface | graphical expert mode and regular/ncurses/text expert mode (not sure what it's labeled in there) is all the same options just less eye candy | 07:20 |
| bozonius2 | sorry, lost the mouse for a moment | 07:20 |
| SuicideJunkie | Pixellated progress bars and such. | 07:20 |
| bozonius2 | then I choose graphical expert mode | 07:20 |
| bozonius2 | then language, keyboard, yada yada | 07:21 |
| bozonius2 | now, do I need to load any additoinal modules perhaps? | 07:22 |
| gnarface | nope | 07:22 |
| gnarface | uh | 07:22 |
| gnarface | wait | 07:22 |
| bozonius2 | (none of rthose listed look like I would) | 07:22 |
| gnarface | probably not but really i forget what is in there these days | 07:22 |
| bozonius2 | idk... fuse modules? | 07:23 |
| bozonius2 | cfdisk? | 07:23 |
| gnarface | the big blind spot is you're doing this in a VM ... maybe there is some tools specific to it in there you want but i can't imagine any of that would affect the primary problem you're having with partitioning | 07:23 |
| bozonius2 | agree | 07:23 |
| bozonius2 | I'm checking cfdisk and select init system (just for s&g) | 07:24 |
| bozonius2 | sorry I could not test this during RC | 07:24 |
| gnarface | it has been heavily tested and the only thing i remember people coming back with in a VM was some problem mixing LVM and RAID under the default partitioning scheme | 07:25 |
| bozonius2 | in expert or guided mode? | 07:26 |
| bozonius2 | so I get to partitioning, and it gives me 4 choices: Guided using whole disk, Guided for LVM, Guided for Encrypted LVM, and just plain Manual | 07:27 |
| bozonius2 | (btw, not sure why they would attempt RAID in a VM. LVM is useful though for dynamic disk space) | 07:28 |
| gnarface | if this isn't about the installer and just about getting the job done, you could always pre-partition the disk image and just accept it from the installer | 07:29 |
| gnarface | then we dont' have to figure out what's happening | 07:29 |
| gnarface | but i do understand the desire to do so | 07:29 |
| bozonius2 | tbh, I am trying to use VM install to simulate how I might do this on real HW someday... | 07:30 |
| gnarface | yea, that was your first mistake | 07:30 |
| gnarface | because installing in a VM is nothing like doing it on real HW | 07:30 |
| gnarface | but that's beside the point now | 07:30 |
| bozonius2 | I hope to have a test box here soon, but that doesn't have the same HW config as this box | 07:30 |
| gnarface | lets see | 07:30 |
| gnarface | pick the "just plain manual" one | 07:31 |
| bozonius2 | Partitioning choices should be the same in VM and real | 07:31 |
| gnarface | i'm not saying they're not | 07:31 |
| gnarface | what i'm saying is | 07:31 |
| gnarface | don't use any of the "guided" ones | 07:31 |
| bozonius2 | Ok, Manual, as I did before... | 07:31 |
| gnarface | ok | 07:32 |
| gnarface | what do you see? | 07:32 |
| gnarface | it should be NOTHING | 07:32 |
| gnarface | there should be an empty list of no partitions | 07:32 |
| bozonius2 | and it gives me a partitioned disk | 07:32 |
| gnarface | huh | 07:32 |
| gnarface | that suggests your disk image was already partitioned | 07:32 |
| bozonius2 | oh... | 07:32 |
| gnarface | how did you create it? | 07:32 |
| bozonius2 | uh... | 07:32 |
| Jjp137 | oh that's not a partitioned disk; that's just a device (sda) | 07:32 |
| gnarface | not with dd certainly? | 07:32 |
| Jjp137 | try double-clicking it | 07:32 |
| bozonius2 | omg | 07:32 |
| bozonius2 | no... wait! | 07:33 |
| gnarface | goodness, don't partition your running disk | 07:33 |
| gnarface | make sure it's actually the VM disk image... lol | 07:33 |
| bozonius2 | for a moment, I thought I was recycling a VM disk from another system. But I now rmember I created it fr4om scartch | 07:33 |
| bozonius2 | scratch | 07:33 |
| Jjp137 | the VM is new and shiny and spotless right? | 07:33 |
| Jjp137 | and the disk too? | 07:33 |
| Jjp137 | oh | 07:33 |
| bozonius2 | so it should, in theory , be blank | 07:33 |
| bozonius2 | yes | 07:33 |
| bozonius2 | shiny and spotless | 07:33 |
| gnarface | maybe the [VM image creation tool] pre-partitioned the disk image "for your convenience?" | 07:34 |
| bozonius2 | hahah | 07:34 |
| bozonius2 | I've never heard of such a thing | 07:34 |
| gnarface | what partitions does it list? | 07:34 |
| Jjp137 | this is the graphical install, right? if so, is there like an arrow to the left of sda that you can click on to reveal a list? | 07:35 |
| bozonius2 | 3.8GB LV home, 2.9GB LV root, 16GV LV swap, then the partition table listing | 07:35 |
| bozonius2 | Jjp137, there IS an arrow, but it is already "open" | 07:35 |
| Jjp137 | okay so there are partitions | 07:35 |
| bozonius2 | hold on, screen shot? | 07:36 |
| bozonius2 | or no? | 07:36 |
| Jjp137 | yea if you want | 07:36 |
| gnarface | yes. screenshot to imgur... | 07:36 |
| gnarface | "LV" ... is that from LVM? | 07:36 |
| gnarface | i don't use LVM, either | 07:36 |
| bozonius2 | yes, "Logical Volume" | 07:36 |
| gnarface | so this disk image has logical volumes already? | 07:36 |
| gnarface | maybe i should fire up the latest installer... | 07:36 |
| gnarface | but i'm wondering if whatever disk image tool you're using gave you a fully bootable disk image... | 07:37 |
| bozonius2 | which disk image tool would that be? | 07:37 |
| gnarface | i dunno. what did you use? all i know is that last i checked, this page should be blank | 07:38 |
| bozonius2 | all vbox does is create a shiny new virtual HD | 07:38 |
| gnarface | maybe you should show me a screenshot because i don't know what i'm talking about | 07:38 |
| bozonius2 | (I agree. it SHOULD be blank) | 07:38 |
| bozonius2 | hold on | 07:38 |
| bozonius2 | https://imgur.com/a/cRcjOEX (it's slow, sorry) | 07:39 |
| KatolaZ | bozonius2: just click on one of the partitions | 07:40 |
| KatolaZ | you'll get a meny | 07:40 |
| KatolaZ | menu | 07:40 |
| KatolaZ | where you can delete/format/change the partition | 07:40 |
| gnarface | yea, what he said. from this screenshot, the ones labeled "primary" and "logical" | 07:40 |
| gnarface | ignore the LVM stuff above that... i think vbox did actually create those | 07:41 |
| Leander | or just delete the image file on your hard drive, and create a new one | 07:41 |
| bozonius2 | Yes I get "Use as: Don't use", "Erase Data", "Done partitioning." | 07:41 |
| bozonius2 | No "Delete" option | 07:41 |
| gnarface | there you go | 07:41 |
| Leander | there's no way vbox created any of that stuff | 07:41 |
| gnarface | "don't use" | 07:41 |
| gnarface | it actually makes more sense in the ncurses mode, because the menu title is "use as" | 07:41 |
| gnarface | or "Use as..." more specifically | 07:41 |
| gnarface | so then "... don't use" is intuitive | 07:41 |
| bozonius2 | gnarface -- I get asked what type of fs I want | 07:41 |
| gnarface | what? | 07:42 |
| gnarface | can you just hit the delete key or something? | 07:42 |
| bozonius2 | the last option, however, says do not use the partition | 07:42 |
| bozonius2 | nope | 07:42 |
| gnarface | what happens when you set it to "don't use" then? | 07:42 |
| bozonius2 | (thanks to all of you for your patience) | 07:42 |
| gnarface | it might actually not be able to manage LVM | 07:42 |
| gnarface | maybe that's the issue | 07:43 |
| bozonius2 | I get the menu I just described. A list of FS type options, the last being "Do not use this partitoin" | 07:43 |
| bozonius2 | then why would it offer LVM? | 07:43 |
| bozonius2 | bug? | 07:43 |
| gnarface | it can create them... | 07:43 |
| gnarface | but wait | 07:43 |
| gnarface | what if you do change to "configure the logical volume manager" ? | 07:43 |
| gnarface | can i see a screenshot of that panel too? | 07:44 |
| Leander | you have to go to "Configure the Logical Volume Manager" and remove the logical volumes | 07:44 |
| gnarface | thank you, Leander | 07:44 |
| bozonius2 | right, I tried this also | 07:44 |
| bozonius2 | it first asks me if I want to keep the current layout, yes or no | 07:44 |
| gnarface | obviously no | 07:44 |
| bozonius2 | so I chose "no" | 07:45 |
| gnarface | well | 07:45 |
| bozonius2 | (right) | 07:45 |
| bozonius2 | and it takes me right back to the same view as I posted on imgur | 07:45 |
| gnarface | they're not gone? | 07:45 |
| bozonius2 | sorry, no | 07:45 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 07:45 |
| gnarface | Leander? | 07:45 |
| bozonius2 | yeah | 07:45 |
| Leander | then say "yes" | 07:45 |
| bozonius2 | ok | 07:45 |
| Leander | because you've apparently not reached the LVM menu | 07:45 |
| bozonius2 | ah, now it offers me a chance to delete something | 07:46 |
| gnarface | Leander: he's got a fresh vbox image and he's just trying to delete everything on it and start over | 07:46 |
| gnarface | i don't know how to do that with LVM apparently.. | 07:46 |
| Leander | no, it's not a fresh image | 07:46 |
| gnarface | he insists vbox created it | 07:46 |
| gnarface | how sure are you about that bozonius2? | 07:47 |
| bozonius2 | So, up to this point, I have to actually SAVE the partitioning I DONT want in order to delete partitions? | 07:47 |
| gnarface | file name check? | 07:47 |
| KatolaZ | hold on bozonius2 | 07:47 |
| Leander | vbox doesn't do any partitioning for you | 07:47 |
| bozonius2 | that makes little sense to me | 07:47 |
| gnarface | heh, just crazy enough to work... | 07:47 |
| bozonius2 | Leander: correct! | 07:47 |
| KatolaZ | do you need to preserve the existing partitions and enlarge them? | 07:47 |
| Leander | so this image you are using, it's not a new one, you've used it for something already | 07:47 |
| bozonius2 | here is what I think it is -- I have 1500MB ram allocated to the VM, so the swap is sized alike. It needs a tiny bit for /boot, the rest becomes / | 07:48 |
| bozonius2 | (I could test this a bit furthr, but it seems that is how it decided the layout) | 07:48 |
| bozonius2 | (I certainly did not!) | 07:48 |
| Jjp137 | you might have accidentally chose to use an existing image file when creating the VM | 07:48 |
| Leander | and the manual partitioning on debian/devuan is quite ridiculous this way, you end up confirming time and time again that yes, you confirm this or that, before you can see the next screen | 07:49 |
| bozonius2 | KatolaZ: I never created those partitions! | 07:49 |
| bozonius2 | Jjp137: For a moment I thought perhaps I did just that. But that is not the case. | 07:49 |
| bozonius2 | In fact, this is the first VM I have ever attempted to do all LVM | 07:49 |
| gnarface | i wonder if you would have the same problem with a qemu image... | 07:50 |
| gnarface | worth trying, maybe | 07:50 |
| bozonius2 | remember, gnarface. I AM BOZONIUS. | 07:50 |
| bozonius2 | If it can break, I will. | 07:50 |
| gnarface | heh | 07:50 |
| bozonius2 | I have the worst luck | 07:50 |
| bozonius2 | no, really I do | 07:50 |
| Leander | you can also create a new image in vbox, and use it as your main hdd, and see that indeed, images created by vbox are blank | 07:50 |
| bozonius2 | Leander? | 07:50 |
| Leander | my only guess at the moment is that you're confused by something in vbox which makes you believe you are using a blank hdd image while you aren't | 07:51 |
| bozonius2 | are you being sarcastic about debian/devuan having a mickey mouse partitioning scheme, or are you poking fun at my situation? | 07:51 |
| bozonius2 | what puzzles me so much is that I had to actually SAVE the damn partitioning scheme that I DID NOT create in order to delete partitions!!!!???? | 07:52 |
| bozonius2 | that is so... idk. How does one say it in technical terms? | 07:52 |
| bozonius2 | "backwards?" | 07:53 |
| Leander | yes, the partitioning tool is very old and quite weird | 07:53 |
| bozonius2 | ok, thanks. | 07:53 |
| bozonius2 | just to clarify. | 07:53 |
| bozonius2 | I wasn't sure if you thought I really blundered | 07:53 |
| Leander | no I'm really agreeing about that | 07:53 |
| gnarface | i'm leaning towards blaming it on vbox | 07:54 |
| gnarface | but i don't really know | 07:54 |
| bozonius2 | Go ahead. Oracle owns VBox. So givem the raspberries | 07:54 |
| Leander | by the way, did you create this VM from scratch? or did you clone a previous one? | 07:55 |
| bozonius2 | gnarface: I can pretty much assure you that VBox images, unless they've been used in a different VM somewhere, are just like the real HW disk drives you buy at Frys | 07:55 |
| bozonius2 | blank | 07:55 |
| bozonius2 | I just created this VM tonight, with its very own, private 8GB virtual hard disk .vdi | 07:56 |
| bozonius2 | no other install has touched it. | 07:56 |
| bozonius2 | I've been here the whole time, never leaving my PC. | 07:56 |
| bozonius2 | No eyes have set upon my PC this evening except mine. | 07:56 |
| bozonius2 | And the Russians do not even know I own a PC, much less my true identity. So it is not them either. | 07:57 |
| bozonius2 | Leander: thank you. I actually thought for a moment (when I was saying uh-oh and omg) that I had done just that. But then I recalled I created it from scratch. | 07:58 |
| bozonius2 | originally, I considered recycling a VM from another distro | 07:58 |
| Leander | one crazy possibility is that when you created this 8GB file, it ended up physically on your disk on a previously formatted image (because image creation tools do not blank the disk) | 08:00 |
| bozonius2 | Tell you all what: I will recreate the VM from scratch again just to make sure I am not pissing away your collective time and effort needlessly. | 08:00 |
| Leander | by that I mean, a previously formatted and deleted image | 08:00 |
| gnarface | make sure you use a new file name | 08:00 |
| gnarface | bozonius2: ^ | 08:00 |
| bozonius2 | Sure. | 08:01 |
| Leander | bozonius2: which CD image are you using for installation? | 08:01 |
| bozonius2 | Leander: I've never tried to create a VM that was completely LVM based. So even if such a coincidence occurred, it would still be a non-starter. | 08:01 |
| bozonius2 | (but good thinking; I thought that also) | 08:02 |
| bozonius2 | this time, I'll create a 12 GB HD | 08:02 |
| bozonius2 | just to see if it makes any differnce | 08:02 |
| bozonius2 | btw, just fyi -- I am using pre-allocated virtual HD, not dynamic. I always do that these days because it speeds up VMs quite a bit | 08:05 |
| bozonius2 | Leander: net install of ascii 64 bit | 08:06 |
| bozonius2 | afk 1 min | 08:06 |
| Leander | I got the expected blank image | 08:09 |
| bozonius2 | Leander: Are you doing advanced options, expert graphical install also? | 08:11 |
| Leander | nope, let me try that | 08:11 |
| bozonius2 | different this time... | 08:14 |
| bozonius2 | only thing I changed was disk size and ram (1G this time) | 08:14 |
| bozonius2 | (disk 12GB) | 08:15 |
| bozonius2 | now I don't get that list of partitions! | 08:15 |
| bozonius2 | ????$$$$~!!!! | 08:15 |
| Leander | I still can't reproduce | 08:15 |
| bozonius2 | right | 08:15 |
| Jjp137 | okay I have a silly theory as to why it showed up previously :p | 08:15 |
| bozonius2 | because I am bozonius, of course... | 08:15 |
| Jjp137 | first, your VM has 1536mb of RAM, right? | 08:16 |
| bozonius2 | the first one did, yes. This one has 1GB | 08:16 |
| bozonius2 | but go ahead... | 08:17 |
| bozonius2 | not enough ram? | 08:17 |
| Jjp137 | because with that, you may have initially picked "Guided - Use Entire Disk and Set Up LVM" at first (and maybe forgot about it) | 08:17 |
| bozonius2 | too much ram? | 08:17 |
| Jjp137 | and you also picked to use a separate /home partition | 08:17 |
| bozonius2 | that IS possible | 08:17 |
| bozonius2 | yes | 08:17 |
| bozonius2 | I did | 08:17 |
| Jjp137 | as part of that, it has to write the changes to disk | 08:17 |
| Jjp137 | then you probably had to cancel the install at some point | 08:17 |
| Jjp137 | and then some time later, you come back, go through the whole thing again, and find that your previous changes are still there | 08:18 |
| bozonius2 | I thought that only happens when I hit "Finish Partitioning and write chnges to disk" | 08:18 |
| Leander | wait... you did that before? | 08:18 |
| bozonius2 | yes... | 08:18 |
| Leander | no wonder! | 08:18 |
| Jjp137 | nope with that particular option, it asks "Write the changes to disk and configure LVM?" | 08:18 |
| bozonius2 | I need to find a new line of work | 08:19 |
| Jjp137 | and you probably said yes | 08:19 |
| bozonius2 | oh shit | 08:19 |
| bozonius2 | now I remember, yes | 08:19 |
| Jjp137 | lol, mystery solved | 08:19 |
| bozonius2 | OK everyone. | 08:19 |
| bozonius2 | The bozo show is over for tonight | 08:19 |
| Leander | *tatata* *tsing* | 08:20 |
| Jjp137 | yea I did some experimenting in a VM and could actually reproduce the basically the same screenshot that bozonius2 posted earlier | 08:20 |
| Jjp137 | down to how big each partition is (which is why I asked about the RAM) | 08:20 |
| bozonius2 | Maybe there is still time for me to become a Unitarian minister... | 08:21 |
| Leander | so yes, the partitioning tool of the installer is very old, and writes changes to disk very early | 08:21 |
| bozonius2 | Jjp137: Yes, I figured that part out too. The swap size was identical to the ram size. | 08:22 |
| Leander | when you want to do anything with LVM, it writes down the partition table, creates the LVM pv and vg, before you can start configuring the LVs | 08:22 |
| bozonius2 | Right, I know that. | 08:23 |
| bozonius2 | but because all that was done transparently the first time I tried (with the guided with LVM option) | 08:23 |
| bozonius2 | so I wasn't paying attention to that | 08:23 |
| bozonius2 | but it does sound like I need to be wary of the installer, generally | 08:24 |
| bozonius2 | I think that is what you guys are telling me. | 08:24 |
| Leander | it sounded like it was your first time booting the image, so... thanks Jjp137 for that | 08:24 |
| Jjp137 | yep when it asks to write changes to disk, you should stop and think :p | 08:24 |
| bozonius2 | but still, I would STILL expect a way to delete partitions if I am in "expert" mode, with no bizarre logic path to get to it, such as saving the partition table just to get to a menu where I can actually delete partitions | 08:25 |
| bozonius2 | that part I find very clumsy. | 08:26 |
| Leander | yes it could be o much better | 08:26 |
| Leander | and even worse: you can create LUKS volumes, but you can never remove them | 08:27 |
| bozonius2 | If the UI is based on the notion that an expert is driving (even one who does not "think" when asked to save something), then it should provide adequate support around that. | 08:27 |
| Leander | until you reboot | 08:27 |
| bozonius2 | because it brings bad LUK? | 08:27 |
| Leander | oh... uh... the door is right there, sir | 08:27 |
| bozonius2 | sorry | 08:28 |
| bozonius2 | Jjp137: No, not "should" stop and think, more like "better" stop and think. There may be no way to undo. | 08:29 |
| Jjp137 | heh yea | 08:29 |
| bozonius2 | w/r/t the installer at least. | 08:29 |
| bozonius2 | Normally, I DO watch those kinds of things. | 08:30 |
| bozonius2 | Still, during an install process, I am used to being given plenty of options to modify, change, repeal, replace, update, modify, and reconnoiter any which way. | 08:30 |
| bozonius2 | well, OK, maybe that is exaggerative | 08:30 |
| bozonius2 | but I've not felt this frustrated looking for a "delete" option since... | 08:31 |
| bozonius2 | since... | 08:31 |
| bozonius2 | oh, I don't know... Redhat 4.1? | 08:31 |
| bozonius2 | thanks gnarface, Jjp137, Leander and others for your assistance | 08:32 |
| Leander | you're welcome | 08:36 |
| barnyard | what do you guys think about wayland | 08:51 |
| gnarface | np bozonius2, glad you got it figured out | 10:03 |
| filipdevuan | is there something wrong with pulseaudio?? | 12:23 |
| KatolaZ | just almost everything | 12:29 |
| filipdevuan | why?? | 12:30 |
| debdog | ask poettering | 12:31 |
| Wonka | a) Poettering, b) nobody knows | 12:31 |
| filipdevuan | who is poettering xdd | 12:31 |
| Wonka | the guy who crufted pulseaudio and systemd | 12:32 |
| filipdevuan | ohh lol | 12:32 |
| filipdevuan | so its the same person | 12:32 |
| Wonka | yep | 12:32 |
| filipdevuan | so do u even use pulseaudio or something else??? | 12:33 |
| Wonka | plain alsa | 12:33 |
| filipdevuan | if im gonna delete pulseaudio packages and install plain alsa would it affect games i installed under wine like they wont turn on?? | 12:33 |
| filipdevuan | i dont think so you know cuz its just sound card but just curious | 12:33 |
| filipdevuan | i mean i dont wanna crashes lol | 12:34 |
| filipdevuan | hm,m i have both pulseaudio and alsa installed i see | 12:35 |
| debdog | pulseaudio does not work without alsa | 12:35 |
| debdog | it's just another layer between the progs and the audio hardware | 12:36 |
| filipdevuan | right... so im confused if i should really delete pulseaudio?? | 12:36 |
| debdog | or alsa, to be precise | 12:36 |
| debdog | well... that's something you'll have to decide for yourself | 12:37 |
| filipdevuan | why is pulseaudio bad, does it slow performance or spy you??? | 12:37 |
| debdog | for me personally, it's because pulseaudio takes over alsa and blocks direct access for non-PA-progrs | 12:38 |
| debdog | *progs | 12:38 |
| filipdevuan | and whats this?? | 12:39 |
| debdog | the basic idea behind PA might not be that bad but it's implementation is terrible and selfish | 12:39 |
| debdog | what's waht? | 12:40 |
| debdog | *its | 12:40 |
| filipdevuan | oh | 12:40 |
| filipdevuan | okay | 12:40 |
| filipdevuan | well i have a read about it but now im excited about my graphics card working and games under wine | 12:40 |
| debdog | I am not aware that the wine project removed support for alsa. | 12:41 |
| filipdevuan | cool | 12:42 |
| filipdevuan | ;D | 12:42 |
| ttr | PA vs plain alsa is personal choose - PA is software layer to decode and mix sound. Some apps will not even work w/o PA and I found esternal (USB) cards beeing way better supported on PA :) | 12:42 |
| filipdevuan | oh right yeah im gonna get an audio interface at some point but not for apple or windows but for linux | 12:44 |
| filipdevuan | but im not familiar with sound on linux at all | 12:50 |
| ttr | n/p | 12:58 |
| xrogaan | pulseaudio is way too useful to remove. | 13:05 |
| xrogaan | I never really understood how alsa worked. | 13:05 |
| g0zzy | Just trying Devuan for the first time, but having installed with wired eth0 i'm now using just wireless. Problem is a big hang "waiting for lock on /run/network/ifstate.eth0" at boot time. Any ideas? | 13:05 |
| xrogaan | before pulseaudio was a thing, alsa was a pain in the butt to get it to work properly. | 13:06 |
| xrogaan | g0zzy: check /etc/networks/interfaces | 13:06 |
| xrogaan | eth0 is wired | 13:07 |
| xrogaan | you want to reconfigure that to point to the wireless interface | 13:07 |
| xrogaan | wlan0? | 13:07 |
| filipdevuan | okay my last game to run path of exile will be downloaded in a minute im gonna configure it to work properly | 13:07 |
| filipdevuan | but today is new season in diablo 3 so im gonna play it tonight :D | 13:08 |
| xrogaan | I meant /etc/network/intefaces | 13:09 |
| xrogaan | no 's' to network | 13:09 |
| xrogaan | g0zzy: also check out man interfaces | 13:09 |
| g0zzy | xrogaan: Sorry - sudden power off. Surely i shouldn't have to be manually configuring /etc/network/interfaces? | 13:11 |
| xrogaan | if your network support dhcp, there is one line or two to write or comment | 13:12 |
| g0zzy | Yes, this is a domestic machine so DHCP is normal. | 13:14 |
| xrogaan | something like `iface wlan0 inet dhcp' | 13:15 |
| xrogaan | and before that: auto wlan0 | 13:15 |
| xrogaan | check it's named wlan0 with ifconfig | 13:16 |
| xrogaan | I think. | 13:16 |
| xrogaan | I don't remember, it's been a while since I configured wireless stuff. | 13:16 |
| g0zzy | My point is, surely this shouldn't be needed normally? | 13:17 |
| xrogaan | No, it is. | 13:17 |
| fsmithred | g0zzy, is eth0 listed in /etc/network/interfaces? | 13:17 |
| g0zzy | Yes | 13:17 |
| fsmithred | auto or allow-hotplug? | 13:17 |
| fsmithred | (whichever you answer, I'm gonna say 'try the other') | 13:18 |
| fsmithred | are you also using wicd? | 13:18 |
| g0zzy | The latter | 13:18 |
| g0zzy | And - yes i am | 13:18 |
| ttr | if latter than you can comment out all except LO in /etc/network/interfaces | 13:19 |
| fsmithred | generally it's not a good idea to use a network manager and interfaces file. They compete. | 13:19 |
| fsmithred | and yes, comment out eth0. | 13:19 |
| ttr | source /etc/network/interfaces.d/* | 13:19 |
| ttr | auto lo | 13:19 |
| ttr | iface lo inet loopback | 13:19 |
| filipdevuan | path of exile works wine just runs everything goddamn devuan is so powerfukl | 13:20 |
| g0zzy | OK. So what would bring up eth0 if no wireless? | 13:20 |
| xrogaan | fsmithred: how do you get network systemwide with a manager? | 13:20 |
| ttr | this is my contents of it, wifi and wired (and other ones) works ok - cnx is done by wicid, and kvm/libvirt/docker are doing their ornw magic for their stuff | 13:20 |
| ttr | g0zzy: wicid also | 13:20 |
| fsmithred | xrogaan, good question. I think you would just need to configure interfaces and not use any nm. | 13:21 |
| ttr | i think in default, if you use wired, it will disconnect wifi | 13:21 |
| g0zzy | OK so wicd would bring up eth0 if no wireless? | 13:21 |
| fsmithred | ttr, I've seen both behaviors on different machines (maybe different versions of wicd) | 13:21 |
| ttr | fsmithred: it's settings in preferences | 13:22 |
| ttr | (would post screenshot, but too lazy to convert to ascii :D | 13:22 |
| fsmithred | thanks. I'll look again, 'cause a friend currently needs both. | 13:22 |
| * g0zzy going to reboot to see if that's cured the hang | 13:23 | |
| fsmithred | (wireless to the router and wired between laptop and desktop) | 13:23 |
| fsmithred | g0zzy, ctrl-c might kill that process | 13:23 |
| g0zzy | Yay! it did | 13:24 |
| fsmithred | FTR, 'auto' makes ifup/down control the interface, allow-hotplug gives it to udev. | 13:26 |
| g0zzy | Right | 13:26 |
| g0zzy | OK - here's the bad news. Turning off wifi and plugging in Ethernet did not bring up a net connection | 13:31 |
| g0zzy | (disconnecting wifi) | 13:31 |
| fsmithred | does the wired interface show up in wicd? | 13:32 |
| fsmithred | if not, there's an option in preferences to always show it. | 13:32 |
| g0zzy | Yes. I think it might want me to connect explictly | 13:33 |
| fsmithred | yup | 13:33 |
| g0zzy | Hmm | 13:33 |
| g0zzy | Can probably live with that | 13:35 |
| fsmithred | my laptop usually is connect with wire, so I have it automatically connect. | 13:37 |
| fsmithred | If I use wireless, I have to open wicd and connect. | 13:37 |
| g0zzy | Yes, that's fine. My client (first to get Devuan) will be using wifi | 13:39 |
| fsmithred | if they're windows refugees, they'll probably be ok with using wicd. | 13:40 |
| g0zzy | They are indeed | 13:41 |
| fsmithred | I think wicd is a lot easier to use than whatever windows uses for setting up the network. | 13:41 |
| ttr | depends on settings both can happen automatically | 13:42 |
| ttr | i have wired if present, if not look for wifi and connect to those set as autoconnect | 13:42 |
| ttr | so, small paste comming in: | 13:43 |
| ttr | Wireless Interface:wlan0 | 13:43 |
| ttr | Wired Interface: eth0 | 13:43 |
| ttr | [X] Always show wired interface | 13:43 |
| ttr | [X] Always switch to wired connection when available | 13:43 |
| ttr | and | 13:43 |
| ttr | Wired Autoconnect Settings | 13:43 |
| ttr | (X) Use default profile on wired autoconnect | 13:43 |
| ttr | this should set up your wired using dhcp, if you need static, you need to edit wired-default profile | 13:44 |
| ttr | and after that, set up wifi profiles | 13:44 |
| ttr | (and on this note I'm out) - good luck | 13:45 |
| g0zzy | Great | 13:48 |
| filipdevuan | can u pls tell me again how to run .deb file?? | 14:22 |
| filipdevuan | dpkg install x.deb? | 14:22 |
| AntoFox | o.O | 14:23 |
| filipdevuan | k nvm | 14:24 |
| filipdevuan | got it | 14:24 |
| kitsunenokenja | hello, I cannot figure out how to install libhunspell from sid. says not installable. all other deps for firefox/unstable installed fine. any idea how to resolve? | 16:58 |
| pandu | hello all, how to install virtualbox-guest-utils in devuan? | 17:02 |
| pandu | (devuan as guest) | 17:03 |
| unmy | pandu, enable "contrib" repository? | 17:07 |
| pandu | unmy, yes, is it the same way like debian (I mean is it save?) by command: echo deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main contrib > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list ? | 17:16 |
| unmy | pandu, deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged stretch-backports main contrib wont work? | 17:23 |
| unmy | bleh | 17:24 |
| unmy | not stretch, ascii | 17:24 |
| unmy | pandu, deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main contrib | 17:25 |
| xrogaan | kitsunenokenja: sid is debian, you might want to use the devuan name scheme. | 17:27 |
| kitsunenokenja | I have it labeled as "unstable" | 17:32 |
| xrogaan | yeah, no idea. | 17:39 |
| xrogaan | what do you mean by "not installable"? | 17:39 |
| pandu | unmy, thanks it works | 17:43 |
| unmy | np | 17:45 |
| refracta_noob | what's the Devuan way of handling automounting? | 17:53 |
| sacioz | Hi all | 18:06 |
| sacioz | bye all | 18:09 |
| pandu | hello all, can we add a ppa in devuan? I want to install adapta theme and when I run: add-apt-repository ppa:tista/adapta, the repply is: Error: could not find a distribution template for Devuan/ascii. or any other way to install adapta? | 18:17 |
| golinux | pandu: Devuan does not have ppa | 18:21 |
| refracta_noob | just clone the github repo | 18:22 |
| scaniatrucker | pandu: Devuan is not compatible with PPA | 18:22 |
| golinux | Isn't everyone leaving the sinking github ship? | 18:22 |
| golinux | Register at git.devuan.org to work on your package then build it with d1h for Devuan compatibility | 18:23 |
| golinux | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=549 | 18:23 |
| golinux | Can't you just c/p your theme into /usr/share/themes ? | 18:25 |
| refracta_noob | last count I saw was 30% of the entire site's projects which was a day or two ago | 18:25 |
| refracta_noob | yeah, ~/.themes/ also works | 18:25 |
| golinux | Those are the ones who are paying attention. :D | 18:25 |
| refracta_noob | I'm most glad it boosted all these other git sites because I was kind of worried that Github would make itself thru its own popularity a potential point of failure for FOSS projects | 18:26 |
| scaniatrucker | golinux: Adapta theme (from github) requaring compilation | 18:27 |
| refracta_noob | luckily looks like the git page has instructions for compile from source | 18:28 |
| golinux | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=549 <<< how to build a pkg for Devuan | 18:30 |
| refracta_noob | does devuan have a mastodon hangout? | 19:01 |
| NewGnuGuy | refracta_noob: It does not | 19:46 |
| _abc_ | Slightly off topic: eelo droid free droid https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/15/meet_the_man_building_a_googlefree_android/ | 20:28 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: so did you make anything of my lame v0 alpha shutdown script for persistence? | 20:46 |
| fsmithred | _abc_, nope. Not yet. | 20:52 |
| fsmithred | one thing I might have done differently (or might do) is use the same tests that are used in the live-config scripts. (for parsing cmdline, etc.) | 20:52 |
| fsmithred | and I need to think more about how it fits in with/without persistence | 20:53 |
| james1138 | Hello from Indiana. I just switched to Devuan Ascii less than a week ago. | 22:08 |
| refracta_noob | I installed Refracta, based on Devuan yesterday. I like it so far. What'd you switch from? | 22:09 |
| james1138 | I was using Ubuntu | 22:09 |
| james1138 | Got pissed one time too many with systemd issues | 22:10 |
| james1138 | All in all... I like it. Feels fast, smooth and stable. | 22:11 |
| james1138 | I do have one question... how do I add debian backport repo? I liked to use stuff like DVDStyler to make DVD's. | 22:13 |
| james1138 | Any way to add repos in general?? | 22:26 |
| golinux | james1138: The website is a good source for basic information: https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list | 22:28 |
| KatolaZ | james1138: you have the merged backports repos in devuan as well | 22:29 |
| james1138 | Sorry. I meant to say add Debian repos such as multimedia added to Devuan. | 22:29 |
| james1138 | deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stretch main non-free | 22:30 |
| james1138 | deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org stretch-backports main | 22:30 |
| golinux | You can but at your own risk. | 22:31 |
| golinux | dmo has not been vetted for unwanted ties to systemd. | 22:31 |
| james1138 | I add them to Synaptic but they do not appear when I restart synaptic. Am I doing something wrong? | 22:35 |
| james1138 | I do not understand... | 22:36 |
| refracta_noob | you might have to do a apt-get update | 22:37 |
| refracta_noob | I think there's a button for it in Synaptic but it's been a while since I've used it | 22:37 |
| james1138 | I am not a spring chicken... I am a bald grandpa with limits on my Linux skills. <grin> | 22:37 |
| james1138 | I even tried dist-upgrade | 22:37 |
| golinux | You need to update sources before you can see ones that have been added. | 22:39 |
| james1138 | The "ADD" button in Synaptic does nothing as far as I can see. | 22:39 |
| james1138 | No luck with update | 22:40 |
| refracta_noob | https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/UseThirdParty | 22:41 |
| james1138 | I now see the keyring in the system. | 22:42 |
| james1138 | The repo does not appear | 22:43 |
| refracta_noob | in Synaptic? I would just try to install whatever you wanted out of the repo to see if it works | 22:44 |
| refracta_noob | what's the Devuan way of handling automounting? Add oneself to group 'disk'? | 22:45 |
| james1138 | Tried but the item I like to use does not appear in the list. Would only Debian 9/stable stuf be listed? | 22:47 |
| refracta_noob | hm, and you did do a ''sudo apt-get update''? | 22:47 |
| james1138 | yes | 22:48 |
| golinux | Yeah, pretty sure he hasn't done an update. | 22:48 |
| KatolaZ | you don't need to add multimedia | 22:48 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: that makes sense, reusing the tests. The current script works fine with at least 2 machines now, i.e. 2 persistence enabled usb sticks made with r2u, no more fuzz with unclean umounts. | 23:03 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: so one should also add fsck at the 'head' in live-boot eventually. The actual command sequence used to umount and sync and shutdown/reboot is clean and could be considered debugged. | 23:04 |
| fsmithred | refracta_noob, automounting removable drives is usually configured in the desktop settings | 23:07 |
| fsmithred | if you want internal disks to automount, set them in /etc/fstab | 23:07 |
| fsmithred | _abc_, have you checked for newer discussions about this a debian-live mailing list? | 23:08 |
| fsmithred | s/a/at | 23:08 |
| _abc_ | No. I don't want them to automount, I want the live-boot to fsck the media before it mounts it. Only the iso media and the persistence one if used | 23:09 |
| _abc_ | if possible, if not, then all usb media presumably | 23:09 |
| refracta_noob | fsmithred: ah so like thru thunar-volume-manager? | 23:10 |
| fsmithred | _abc_, the automount comment was for refracta_noob | 23:10 |
| _abc_ | oh | 23:10 |
| _abc_ | sorry, I'll be quiet now | 23:10 |
| _abc_ | Re discussions: I have not checked. Anything interesting worth checking? | 23:10 |
| fsmithred | settings, removable drives and media | 23:10 |
| fsmithred | I only found that one message about it, which was for squeeze, I think. | 23:11 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: what kind of programs would auto-run on mounted media if so selected in Settings? | 23:11 |
| fsmithred | should say I only looked at one. I got a bunch of hits. I think I searched for fsck, but I don't remember for sure | 23:11 |
| refracta_noob | oh wow, I'm dim. thank you! | 23:12 |
| refracta_noob | I just now see it | 23:12 |
| fsmithred | poke around, and you'll find all kinds of interesting stuff | 23:12 |
| fsmithred | _abc_, I don't know - I've never, ever checked that box. Maybe anything with executable bit. | 23:12 |
| * _abc_ shudders | 23:13 | |
| fsmithred | yeah, kind of like participating in glory hole activity with no protection | 23:13 |
| refracta_noob | "Automatically run a program when a tablet is connected" - oh that is awesome...I'm going to use this to start Gimp. This is nice. | 23:14 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: not really, reading up, it has a security mechanism and requires user confirmation https://specifications.freedesktop.org/autostart-spec/autostart-spec-0.5.html | 23:15 |
| fsmithred | oh, good | 23:15 |
| refracta_noob | how would I run gnome-disks? | 23:17 |
| fsmithred | is gnome-disks installable? | 23:18 |
| refracta_noob | it is, I have it now | 23:19 |
| fsmithred | I've never used it (or not recently). Click on it in the apps menu? | 23:19 |
| novemberrain | james1138: i had bad experience with changing settings through synaptic | 23:19 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: the redux: if a file autorun.sh exists and is +x in the media mounted, and the option is on, the user gets asked and it is executed | 23:20 |
| novemberrain | installing, upgrading and removing packages works fine but whenever i touched the setting, things got messed up | 23:20 |
| james1138 | Oh! What settings? I like to avoid the same. | 23:20 |
| novemberrain | eg. i tried to change the main server to a country specific | 23:21 |
| refracta_noob | brb, it's not showing in the apps menu, going to log out and try looking for it | 23:21 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: what script/suite of scripts would you recommend to keep $HOME in sync with, on several movable (persistence) and desktop machines? | 23:22 |
| novemberrain | afair there was only one time such change actually worked | 23:22 |
| _abc_ | Assume local access | 23:22 |
| fsmithred | _abc_, rsync | 23:23 |
| james1138 | Refracta... If reboot does not work - try using Alacarte instead MenuLibre. | 23:23 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: I mean is there a preset menu like thing or such? | 23:23 |
| fsmithred | grsync if you want a graphical frontend | 23:23 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: with duplicate resolution etc | 23:23 |
| _abc_ | ok | 23:24 |
| james1138 | never mind | 23:24 |
| fsmithred | I'm sure there are other choices, but I use rsync a lot | 23:24 |
| _abc_ | I realized that, that's why I asked you ;) | 23:25 |
| refracta_noob | lol, I broke something. I get a grey background when I login now and no desktop... time to just bring over my .xsession and .twmrc I guess | 23:29 |
| _abc_ | ok, I have my work cut out, I'll have to learn rsync or another related sync command soon | 23:46 |
| ChuangTzu | Hello everyone, golinux sent me here | 23:48 |
| _abc_ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_synchronization_software this is worth a read | 23:48 |
| _abc_ | ok, thanks for today | 23:48 |
| golinux | ChuangTzu: Greetings! | 23:50 |
| ChuangTzu | ;) | 23:50 |
| refracta_noob | hm. when I open thunar and click on one of my SSDs it says I'm not authorized. | 23:50 |
| ChuangTzu | refracta_noob: permissions issue with the drive probably | 23:52 |
| novemberrain | i'm trying to upgrade from jessie to ascii. update (mostly) works but i get a dist-upgrade error | 23:55 |
| novemberrain | "gnupg : Breaks: python-apt (<= 1.1.0~beta4) but 0.9.3.12 is to be installed" | 23:55 |
| novemberrain | plus two other similar cases, but i can do without the other packages | 23:56 |
| novemberrain | any ideas what's wrong and how to deal with it? | 23:56 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!