| V-H | hello | 01:46 |
|---|---|---|
| V-H | jklafd | 01:46 |
| V-H | hm | 01:46 |
| V-H | hello | 01:47 |
| V-H | hello | 01:50 |
| V-H | can anyone seeme typing? | 01:50 |
| V-H | how do I auth to nickserv to talk? | 01:51 |
| * Digit facepalms | 02:49 | |
| Digit | if only there was room in the topic for a "just ask" message | 02:49 |
| golinux | Talk to DocScrutinizer | 03:04 |
| gnarface | my vote is still for a greeter bot that caches recognized names | 04:09 |
| gnarface | nobody reads the topic | 04:09 |
| bozonius | Maybe I am just forgetting something simple, idk. I just ran apt-get update/upgrade and the kernel was one of the items that was upgraded. But for the life of me, I don't get why uname -a is showing the same kernel that just got installed! I haven't rebooted yet. | 04:45 |
| bozonius | vmlinuz-3.16.0-6-amd64 is the new kernel package version | 04:46 |
| bozonius | uname -a shows Linux devuan.archons 3.16.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.56-1+deb8u1 (2018-05-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux | 04:47 |
| bozonius | or... is that 3.16.56-1 the key here? | 04:48 |
| gnarface | for kernels, the package name may not match the actual kernel version in it | 04:50 |
| gnarface | you have to pay close attention | 04:50 |
| bozonius | so the actual version is 3.16.56 and I am currently running something else? | 04:51 |
| bozonius | how do I "pay close attention" to the output of uname -a? | 04:51 |
| gnarface | it's like this | 04:51 |
| gnarface | 3.16.56 is the actual version you're running | 04:51 |
| gnarface | uname -a isn't lying about that | 04:52 |
| gnarface | but you may have installed kernel package 3.16.0 to get that kernel | 04:52 |
| gnarface | over history, kernel package 3.16.0 would have held several kernels of actually higher version | 04:52 |
| bozonius | so I missed that in the package install step... | 04:52 |
| gnarface | that's my guess | 04:52 |
| gnarface | or maybe you rebooted and then forgot... | 04:52 |
| gnarface | ? | 04:52 |
| bozonius | no | 04:52 |
| gnarface | i mean, kexec is possible but i don't think anything does that automatically. i could be wrong... | 04:53 |
| bozonius | I am CERTAIN I have not rebooted. I checked this while the install was finishing up | 04:53 |
| bozonius | (install=update) | 04:53 |
| gnarface | maybe you've got some setup that is kexecing new kernels? | 04:53 |
| gnarface | it seems unlikely but possible, too | 04:53 |
| bozonius | no | 04:53 |
| bozonius | I think I simply missed the messages in the update when it got to the kernel | 04:53 |
| gnarface | i've been confused by the mismatch too | 04:54 |
| bozonius | yeah, scrolling back in the terminal window where I ran apt-get I see that 3.16.57 is the new version | 04:54 |
| gnarface | rebuilding my own kernel, somehow i managed to get 4.13.something in kernel package 4.3.3 | 04:54 |
| bozonius | whereas uname is reporting 3.16.56 | 04:54 |
| gnarface | ok, not a big change even | 04:54 |
| bozonius | what I find a bit odd about this arrangement is that the previous kernel in /boot is 3.16.5; no 3.16.55 is in there | 04:55 |
| bozonius | it makes sense as I get the way the versioning works now | 04:56 |
| gnarface | they do skip version | 04:56 |
| gnarface | skip versions* too | 04:56 |
| bozonius | but it doesn't make sense from the POV if I want to go back to the most recent version -- I'd have to force a downgrade | 04:56 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 04:56 |
| bozonius | (one of the things I hate about, say, Arch Linux which doesn't keep multiple kernel versions by default anyway) | 04:56 |
| gnarface | i seem to recall in jessie they had a 3.2 package and a 3.16 package but they upgraded the kernel several times within each | 04:57 |
| gnarface | i am sure there's some organizational strategy there | 04:57 |
| bozonius | gnarface: here is what I am saying. Let's say I am running 3.16.57 and discover a behavior I did not notice before the last kenrnel upgrade | 04:57 |
| bozonius | maybe this happens immediately after an update | 04:58 |
| gnarface | yea, i get what you're saying. you'd have to resort to snapshots in that case, to get the older version | 04:58 |
| bozonius | so I want to see if my brain is not playing tricks on me (after doing some other testing and the like) | 04:58 |
| bozonius | yeah | 04:58 |
| gnarface | but Debian specifically puts a lot of effort into making sure that won't happen with the stable distro, this is one of their "don't worry about that, let us worry about that" things | 04:58 |
| bozonius | I am happy to let them worry all they want to. | 04:59 |
| bozonius | but if I do happen to run into a bug... | 04:59 |
| gnarface | if they didn't change the kernel package version, they're implying that there shouldn't be any regressions in that change | 04:59 |
| bozonius | of course not. Why would there be any regressions | 04:59 |
| gnarface | heh | 04:59 |
| bozonius | yeah | 04:59 |
| bozonius | there are no guarantees in this world | 04:59 |
| bozonius | no infallibilities | 05:00 |
| bozonius | and certainly not in the open source world | 05:00 |
| gnarface | some of this probably made a lot more sense in the early days, when kernels weren't something you updated several times a year | 05:00 |
| bozonius | true, true | 05:00 |
| bozonius | well, anyway, gnarface... thanks again for stepping in. | 05:01 |
| gnarface | no problem | 05:01 |
| bozonius | I'm trying hard to look more closely at things like this | 05:01 |
| bozonius | I'm hoping to become more helpful, or at least be able to sort out my own messes a bit better | 05:01 |
| gnarface | i think it basically just amounts to a mechanism they use to make other packages think that the kernel has not changed | 05:01 |
| bozonius | good point | 05:01 |
| gnarface | you're doing good, it's good to ask these questions | 05:01 |
| bozonius | I wasn't thinking of that, actually | 05:01 |
| bozonius | thanks | 05:02 |
| bozonius | yeah, like if, say, none of the modules changed, only the microkernel itself | 05:02 |
| gnarface | most userspace programs would be oblivious to minor changes | 05:03 |
| bozonius | this would avoid a lot of extra work, though I am not sure if it actually DOES avoid all that extra work. Seems like these kernel updates all take the same amount of time | 05:03 |
| gnarface | yea it's hard for me to say too | 05:03 |
| bozonius | still having problems with my USB headset | 05:03 |
| bozonius | generally, it works | 05:03 |
| gnarface | i think it varies depending a lot on what hardware you buy | 05:03 |
| gnarface | some hardware is very well supported by the kernel | 05:03 |
| gnarface | for that stuff, i would assume the gamble pays off | 05:04 |
| bozonius | well, I notice that in the last update or two of vbox they are handling USB passthrough a bit differently | 05:04 |
| bozonius | it used to be that if one VM grabbed the USB device, others could still have access to it. And that occasionally created some issues. But now it tells you the device failed to attach to the VM. | 05:05 |
| bozonius | Which is nice, and much preferable. | 05:05 |
| bozonius | Headset conflicts are nothing, but a USB drive being accessed by multiple VMs could be a disaster | 05:05 |
| bozonius | actually, I think in the last 10 years or so, Linux has really caught up with hardware. | 05:06 |
| bozonius | In th beginning you sometimes had to wait years for the mfrs to release the secrets, or for someone to figure out how to reverse engineer a new item | 05:06 |
| bozonius | these days, new hardware seems to be more universally supported | 05:07 |
| bozonius | with some exceptions, like the newest NICs | 05:07 |
| bozonius | especially the built-in kinds like on laptop MBs | 05:07 |
| bozonius | again, thanks for your help | 05:07 |
| gnarface | yea no problem | 05:08 |
| gnarface | i agree, it's gotten a lot better | 05:08 |
| gnarface | but there are still conspicuous blocks of stuff that are problematic | 05:08 |
| gnarface | optimus laptops come to mind | 05:09 |
| gnarface | it seems there's really a few brands that are bad players, that's the problem | 05:09 |
| gnarface | the amount of those brands are increasing, the type of behavior is increasing market-wide | 05:09 |
| gnarface | even as kernel development continues to quicken to compensate | 05:10 |
| bozonius | China | 05:13 |
| bozonius | I'm guessing here that a lot of the components in these no-name devices have sketchy APIs and so on. | 05:15 |
| bozonius | https://pasteboard.co/HwNew5G.png | 05:30 |
| bozonius | I've seen this before with other systems, but not with Devuan | 05:30 |
| bozonius | I was rebooting to that new 3.16.57 kernel | 05:31 |
| bozonius | it's just hanging forever... | 05:31 |
| bozonius | so it appears that even though I carefully shut down every open window, there are some processes that refused to die during shutdown | 05:32 |
| bozonius | the /tmp and /home fs are not surprising since I do hit those the most with various projects I am working on, and all the browsers and copies of thunderbird in diffrent desktops | 05:33 |
| bozonius | so umount fails, OK, but why do we get a [info] message telling us it will restart if it is this unhappy about the poor shutdown? | 05:34 |
| bozonius | I'm gonna force a reboot and let fsck clean up whatever mess was left behind. I'm not worried about this, but it is rather odd (message mismatch) | 05:34 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | Digit: >> [30.07.18 06:09:12] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on V-H (account V-H): [30.07.18 06:09:12] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Jul 29 23:42:55 2018 (4h 26m 17s ago)<< No "just ask" in topic will ever help for this user class | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | >><gnarface> my vote is still for a greeter bot that caches recognized names- nobody reads the topic<< There's already the onjoin ircd7 message, nobody reads that either, obviously not even you ;-D | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | see /msg chanserv help set ENTRYMSG | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | /cs info #devuan -> [30.07.18 06:35:38] [Notice] -ChanServ- Entrymsg : Join us, and celebrate in freedom and justice | 06:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | feel free to ask for changes of this greeter | 06:38 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | actually it seems *nobody ever* reads that, nor does it get updated in any channel | 06:41 |
| Digit | n_n | 06:46 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | ? | 06:52 |
| Joerg-Neo900 | Digit: I don't know that emoticon | 06:56 |
| Digit | i interpret/intend it like a pleasant amusement aknowledgement. | 07:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 07:36 |
| MinceR | ^_^ | 08:09 |
| Lichte | I've installed nodejs from backports and there is no npm installed and I can't find npm in any repo, is there a way to get npm installed ? | 08:39 |
| rrq | Lichte: you might need to get npm from jessie/main | 11:05 |
| rrq | .. or possibly from debian/experimental | 11:08 |
| Digit | i'll need to sort out my nvidia after that last upgrade... why do i only tend to these things when too sleepy to~ ~zzz | 14:17 |
| debdog | because they're only bearable when numb? | 14:24 |
| bleb | what's the difference between files.devuan.org and e.g. http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/ ? | 16:54 |
| gnarface | auto.mirror is deprecated | 16:54 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure what "files" is | 16:54 |
| gnarface | i think you're supposed to use deb.devuan.org for your sources.list right now | 16:55 |
| bleb | is there still an ftp interface? | 16:56 |
| gnarface | i don't know | 16:57 |
| gnarface | maybe not | 16:57 |
| bleb | where does the ascii installer download stuff from? i noticed that my old jessie usb installer stopped working because the directory structure at us.mirror.devuan.org changed | 16:59 |
| gnarface | if you use deb.devuan.org it should work | 17:00 |
| bleb | ok | 17:00 |
| bleb | debian has http://ftp.debian.org/ but they removed their ftp service a while back | 17:01 |
| bleb | this is a great opportunity to distinguish devuan from debian! | 17:01 |
| rrq | https://www.devuan.org/get-devuan lists some ftp mirrors | 17:03 |
| bleb | i know, there are debian ftp mirrors too | 17:04 |
| bleb | but imo it should be officially supported | 17:04 |
| rrq | ? aren't they? | 17:05 |
| fsmithred | files.devuan.org is where the isos are | 17:05 |
| bleb | rrq: none of them are at devuan.org so i'd assume they are supported by someone else? | 17:06 |
| rrq | what does "are at devuan.org" mean? is it you want to ftp to a domain name that ends with "devuan.org"? Or you want those who owns devuan.org to pay for the host that holds the isos you download? | 17:14 |
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