| cirdan | telmich: i can only hope ibm shitcans him since systemd is a travisty for real servers... | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| MinceR | ibm stopped caring about a long time ago | 00:10 |
| golinux | Ah! There is life on this channel!! | 00:12 |
| redrick | telmich: The Poettering crowd have a well-practiced set of decoy rhetorical tricks. The 'you just refuse to learn something new' thing is a classic. They get confused when I say 'That must be why I happily learned OpenRC, then.' | 00:47 |
| redrick | telmich: Yes, the with_replies mode works only with Twitter login. | 00:54 |
| cirdan | MinceR: they care enough to buy redhat | 01:25 |
| MinceR | they probably did it for the leverage | 02:29 |
| golinux | They paid more than it was worth. I hope they neuter it. | 02:32 |
| Tom-_ | redrick, yeah, that's called a personal attack, and it's a standard (wrong) way to win an argument | 03:58 |
| Tom-_ | i mean i'm sure you already know most or all of that, but it still is worth pointing out | 03:58 |
| Tom-_ | it's an insult to put you off balance and change to defending yourself instead of making an argument | 04:00 |
| rwp | redrick, I am surprised they didn't just try shouting as a first step since that seems to be the normal way for them. | 04:04 |
| redrick | Tom-_ and rwp: All of that's true, but I was passing along a point of tactics: How to defeat a dumb but predictable fallacious argument by making it inapplicable. Also, yay OpenRC. ;-> | 05:25 |
| redrick | A couple'a years ago, I remembered that I never really liked SysVInit, anyway, having started with the BSD init and found SysVInit annoyingly overengineered. | 05:26 |
| Tom-_ | just learning Linux at all would be a counterpoint too, in case you haven't learned OpenRC :) | 05:27 |
| redrick | As I've observed on Dng a time or two, the 'you just refuse to learn something new' canard was perennial among DJB's coterie, too, in the form of pretending no MTAs existed except qmail and sendmail, and no nameserver packages but djbdns and BIND. | 05:30 |
| redrick | Once you spot the defective logic pattern, it's easy to explode in front of audiences, which is basically my point: the ease of mocking the fallacy. | 05:31 |
| armin | And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay My vengeance upon them.' | 07:50 |
| redrick | Why _do_ they call it a Royale with cheese? | 08:01 |
| system16 | Hi. you may or may not know that i Do have an sftp server. my question is : can i add a "print server" capability to it ? now i know this is very easy with an GUI or DE. but this server runs no DE or GUI | 10:38 |
| Tom-_ | cups, lpr-ng and lpr and maybe some other software are maybe print servers like you're asking for | 10:39 |
| system16 | cups ? apt install cups ? | 10:39 |
| system16 | and is everything automatic or i have to configure it | 10:40 |
| system16 | is it OK that Cups needs 103 MBs of storage | 10:53 |
| debdog | you have to configure it. its GUI's port is 631 | 10:53 |
| system16 | i have no GUI | 10:53 |
| system16 | no DE | 10:53 |
| debdog | yah, Browser | 10:53 |
| debdog | serverip:631 | 10:53 |
| system16 | so 103 is normal ? | 10:53 |
| system16 | i dont want it to be accessible on WAN | 10:54 |
| system16 | only on lan | 10:54 |
| system16 | why would i want to print stuff when i not home lol | 10:54 |
| debdog | so your dog has something to chew on | 10:54 |
| system16 | lol | 10:55 |
| system16 | is port forwarding mandatory ? | 10:55 |
| debdog | what, why, what? | 10:55 |
| system16 | dont want it to be accessible from the INternet | 10:55 |
| system16 | ? | 10:56 |
| sixwheeledbeast^ | There is no port forwarding you are still on the LAN to access :631 | 10:56 |
| debdog | on one of your ocal machines with a gui, open a browser and enter URL of your print server with a :631 at the end | 10:56 |
| system16 | k' | 10:57 |
| system16 | let me install it first | 10:57 |
| system16 | so i dont have to setup port forwarding on the router ? | 10:57 |
| sixwheeledbeast^ | There is also cups.conf as well IIRC | 10:57 |
| sixwheeledbeast^ | https://www.cups.org/documentation.html | 10:58 |
| system16 | failed | 10:59 |
| system16 | let me run update | 10:59 |
| buZz | devuan wins another battle | 14:23 |
| buZz | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=917124 | 14:23 |
| djph | EWONTFIX | 14:27 |
| buZz | what a insanely dumb error | 14:29 |
| buZz | dev-mapper-vg\x2dhome is in the screenshot | 14:30 |
| buZz | but should be dev-mapper-vg-home | 14:30 |
| buZz | 0x2D is 45, ascii 45 is '-' | 14:30 |
| djph | so, bad math somewhere? | 14:30 |
| buZz | bad coding | 14:31 |
| buZz | some piece of udev/lvm2 (that hooks into systemd) seems to be trying to be clever in encoding characters | 14:31 |
| buZz | but making a fool of itself | 14:32 |
| buZz | there's no bug if you dont use non alphabet chars in vg names | 14:32 |
| buZz | lol | 14:32 |
| buZz | i guess redhat doesnt use non alphabet by default? ;) | 14:32 |
| buZz | feels like the 'well you shouldnt start usernames with a number anyway!' bug of last year | 14:33 |
| buZz | 'adduser doesnt even allow that!' response by lennard with 8934758937x 'but useradd is default' responses to it and links to POSIX docs | 14:33 |
| buZz | :D | 14:33 |
| djph | wait isnt posix username letter-based? | 14:46 |
| buZz | djph: posix allows numbers at beginning of a name | 15:09 |
| buZz | redhat's adduser (and systemd) does not | 15:09 |
| buZz | and systemd will execute any process you wanted to run as a user , on failure because it starts with a number , as root | 15:09 |
| buZz | so you wont even know its wrong, as service just runs | 15:10 |
| buZz | you've just introduced a silent exploitable service | 15:10 |
| djph | aawespme ... | 15:22 |
| buZz | yeah, and they say there's no comedy in linux :P | 15:26 |
| jonadab | Kids these days. Don't even remember adding users by editing /etc/passwd | 15:46 |
| buZz | jonadab: 'i only like adduser cause it gives me a menu to fill' | 16:00 |
| buZz | and then hit enter at every question in menu, yeaaaah | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* I just read an ancient (June) email of jaromil about a meeting with RMS. Which mentions the "we must not recommend XY stuff" - I always get angry when I read how RMS/FSF forbid to *talk about* stuff and *utter notions* (recommending something is a notion, no?) to qualify for some FSF approval. That's politically *very* suspicious | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "you must not offer this info, or offer that update feature" != freedom | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think the RMS/FSF approach to certify "100% free" is flawed and misleading by inception, there simply isn't a thing like 100% freedom and FSF would be better off to rate freedom on a scale from [0 to (excluding) ]100% than issuing a "100% RYF" or "100% free" medal or nothing | 17:34 |
| MinceR | indeed | 17:53 |
| furrywolf | as I recall, RMS himself ranted about debian's only-free policy... | 17:53 |
| MinceR | but given their stance on vendor lock-in, they can't rate freedom in a meaningful way anyway | 17:53 |
| * jonadab is far more bothered by proprietary protocols and file formats, than proprietary software. Not that I don't like having source available; it's useful. | 18:27 | |
| jonadab | But the network effect that creates lock-in really relies on formats and protocols, most of the time, IMO. | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | +1 | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | furrywolf: read >devuan-dev] nice talking to RMS from: Jaromil <jaromil@dyne.org> Date: 22 Jun 2018 23:07:05< and in there the part about >> Another major thing that RMS told me is that, if we remove the recommendations for non-free sections in the sources.list on the website, documentation and those installed, then this is enough of a condition for Devuan to be 100% free<< | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *hate* the idea to remove info to comply with some policy of those allegedly fighting for freedom | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is >>100% free of stuff that annoys RMS<< at best | 21:28 |
| MinceR | i hate the fsf's idea of a "free os" being rooted in trying to prevent the user from installing nonfree software | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly. and this above feels to me like "I got a quarrel with Bob. If you talk to Bob you can't be my friend" | 21:30 |
| jonadab | Fundamentally, RMS has always been all about preventing people from doing certain things. That's the whole purpose of the GPL (as opposed to permissive licenses). | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway in Neo900 I coined the slogan "more free than even FSF allows" and I suggest devuan thinks about a similar approach | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see Devuan removing info from their website because anybody else thinks such info would not fir into a political agenda | 22:09 |
| MinceR | nice | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fir into *their* (not Devuan's) political agenda | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fit** | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd rather hope Devuan despises any political agenda and focuses exclusively on freedom of choice | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no info will ever limit your freedom of choice, so no reason on that side to remove info | 22:14 |
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