| _abc_ | Hi. I assume this is old news, but the comments are worth reading and bookmarking :) https://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/all/2019/01/10/systemd_bugs_qualys/ | 01:26 |
|---|---|---|
| golinux | _abc_: Haven't seen that take on it yet, Comments there are always entertaining. | 01:34 |
| _abc_ | yep | 01:35 |
| kitsunenokenja | puzzled by something. using only ascii/beowulf from deb.devuan.org, and all pkg for php7 are 7.0, 7.1, 7.3 -- where is 7.2? | 01:51 |
| golinux | kitsunenokenja: Dom't know but you can always check https://pkginfo.devuan.org fo availability | 02:07 |
| kitsunenokenja | searched for "php7." in "any", only 7.0 & 7.3 appear. Feels like I should either look for a repo providing it or just compile it and drop it into /usr/local | 02:10 |
| golinux | Do not mix other repos with devuan. | 02:11 |
| kitsunenokenja | I was more inclined to compile it than roll the dice with pure debian .deb's | 02:11 |
| golinux | https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian/ | 02:16 |
| golinux | Good idea to compile | 02:17 |
| Xenguy | Whenever I compile, which is not often anymore, I use 'checkinstall' on the final step, which builds a DEB (or an RPM or w/e) | 02:45 |
| Xenguy | You build the DEB, then install it with dpkg -i | 02:45 |
| golinux | Xenguy: Good advice. | 03:04 |
| Xenguy | It worked great for me back in the day, and just kept things a bit 'tidier' | 03:30 |
| Xenguy | I also remember it was convenient to uninstall the package too, as you could just do: dpkg -r packagename | 03:32 |
| golinux | Xenguy: Yup | 04:06 |
| xrogaan | Is there drama on the kernel news list surrounding the systemd problem? | 08:40 |
| guy | bootloaders absolutely will not install during netinst, UEFI mode or not. anybody know anything about that? | 13:59 |
| KatolaZ | guy: never reported | 13:59 |
| KatolaZ | what are you doing exactly? | 13:59 |
| KatolaZ | and which medium have you used? | 14:00 |
| KatolaZ | (I suppose you are speaking of Devuan Ascii) | 14:00 |
| guy | netinst on a bootable flash drive, trying to install on software RAID1 | 14:00 |
| KatolaZ | guy: you should save a partition out of raid for /boot | 14:01 |
| KatolaZ | just in case | 14:01 |
| KatolaZ | which error do you get? | 14:01 |
| guy | grub-install dummy failed | 14:01 |
| KatolaZ | guy: please have a look at the logfile | 14:02 |
| KatolaZ | /var/log/syslog | 14:02 |
| KatolaZ | it should say something more | 14:02 |
| guy | alright ill check it out, thanks | 14:02 |
| KatolaZ | np | 14:02 |
| KatolaZ | if it fails, just use the expert install option | 14:02 |
| KatolaZ | it will allow you to choose the device to install grub to | 14:02 |
| KatolaZ | (or to type in your choice) | 14:03 |
| abcdabcd | Hi. I have a problem. Fujitsu laptop does not suspend when lid is closed. This used to work. devuan is ascii. I updated some stuff and it's no longer happening. All the settings in xfce4 powermanager are ok. Suspending manually from the logout screen works fine. Return from suspend is also okay. There's a maybe-related systemd problem, it requires manually editing a setting in logind.conf called HandleLid | 15:23 |
| abcdabcd | Switch which is to be set to =ignore for systemd. The file does not exist on devuan but this may be a hint as to what the mongoloids broke again? | 15:23 |
| abcdabcd | I'll wait patiently for an answer now. Thanks. | 15:23 |
| abcdabcd | ?? | 15:29 |
| djph | abcdabcd: systemd in devuan? | 15:30 |
| furrymcgee | no systemd in devuan because its a security disaster | 15:31 |
| abcdabcd | dude do you people read what I write or just pick out whatever word you fancy out of the mess? | 15:37 |
| djph | abcdabcd: yeah, I did. You're the one who mentioned it's a systemd problem with logind ... I'd have thought it an ACPI error myself. | 15:47 |
| jyri | abcdabcd: their attention level probably depends of the level of cafeine in blood/time at their time zone :) anyway, there was longish chain on the devuan dng mailing list about the issue, I just can't remember what was the solution (reason probably the level of cafeine) | 15:49 |
| abcdabcd | The problem is I can't leave the laptop with no suspend, it runs the battery down when the lid is closed | 15:54 |
| abcdabcd | The lid event is detected, I am tempted to code a simple crap thing which polls the relevant proc file and issues a suspend to same | 15:55 |
| abcdabcd | Suggestions? | 15:55 |
| r3boot | You might be able to configure a pm-utils script which runs on lid close | 15:56 |
| r3boot | Meh. Cant find any good docs wrt pm-utils under debian/devuan; Almost all docs I've come across assume systemd (where suspend/resume/lidclose just works using the options you've described) | 16:01 |
| r3boot | abcdabcd: man 8 pm-utils is your best bet igi | 16:04 |
| r3boot | *iig | 16:04 |
| jyri | @devuan ~ ]$ man 8 pm-utils | 16:07 |
| jyri | No manual entry for pm-utils in section 8 | 16:07 |
| jyri | :( | 16:07 |
| r3boot | apt-get install pm-utils | 16:07 |
| r3boot | cmon :) | 16:08 |
| KatolaZ | jyri: man pm-suspend | 16:08 |
| KatolaZ | you normally have manpages for commands, not for packages | 16:08 |
| jyri | /usr/share/man/man8/pm-hibernate.8.gz | 16:08 |
| jyri | /usr/share/man/man8/pm-suspend-hybrid.8.gz | 16:08 |
| jyri | /usr/share/man/man8/pm-suspend.8.gz | 16:08 |
| jyri | yep | 16:08 |
| jyri | r3boot: pm-utils gets automagically installed as dependency since such stuff as acpi-support depends on it, I was just trying to be funny etc. Just ignore me, it's Friday and I have to get out of the office :P | 16:14 |
| chomwitt | hi. i see with ldd that php-fpm has systemd depedencies. doest that mean that will not run in devuan ? | 16:18 |
| KatolaZ | abcdabcd: you might have a look at /etc/acpi/events/lidbtn | 16:18 |
| KatolaZ | chomwitt: I think they have removed the dep in Debian Stretch | 16:19 |
| KatolaZ | chomwitt: the package is in ascii, actually | 16:19 |
| KatolaZ | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=php-fpm&release=any | 16:19 |
| chomwitt | in debian9 php-fpm depends on libsystemd0 | 16:20 |
| KatolaZ | chomwitt: it depends on libsystemd0, yes | 16:20 |
| KatolaZ | so you can actually install it in Devuan | 16:20 |
| KatolaZ | libsystemd0 is available, although not used, since you have no systemd | 16:21 |
| chomwitt | thanks | 16:24 |
| KatolaZ | np | 16:27 |
| rrq | abcdabcd: I remember something with the xhci_* modules not being able to suspend... | 16:27 |
| rrq | I have /etc/pm/config.d/sleep-unload.conf with 'SUSPEND_MODULES="xhci_pci xhci_hcd"' | 16:28 |
| rrq | and afair it made a difference | 16:28 |
| _abc_ | I was here before as abcdabcd -- any ideas on what would kill lid switch suspend on a fujitsu laptop? | 18:05 |
| _abc_ | It worked and then ceased working probably during an update (aptitude). The settings in the manager are all okay, tested multiple times. | 18:05 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred has not been in here in a while? Or does he come in at odd hours (for me -- i'm in EU Eastern TZ) | 18:14 |
| golinux | He hasn't had home Internet for months. | 18:15 |
| _abc_ | wow? Why? | 18:15 |
| _abc_ | Money problems or technical? | 18:15 |
| golinux | Door 1 | 18:15 |
| _abc_ | I am not familiar with that. What does it mean. | 18:16 |
| golinux | You mentioned two "doors" | 18:16 |
| _abc_ | Oh, the left one? | 18:17 |
| golinux | He and I work a lot by phone. | 18:17 |
| _abc_ | I see. | 18:17 |
| golinux | We do read L to R in the West. | 18:17 |
| furrymcgee | EU eastern not china yet? | 18:18 |
| _abc_ | So nothing was done to subsidize that a bit? He contributed a lot to devuan. He deserves that? | 18:18 |
| furrymcgee | yes | 18:20 |
| golinux | Yup. | 18:20 |
| _abc_ | EU Eastern is somewhat allergic to non-whites off-whites etc. | 18:21 |
| golinux | All this is OT | 18:22 |
| _abc_ | Yes. What about the lid switch going South? | 18:22 |
| golinux | I think there's something about that on the forum or dng | 18:22 |
| golinux | Too lazy to go search for you. | 18:23 |
| _abc_ | Was there anyhting in a recent update which killed something important in the way powerd/acpid work? It has to be in the gui side, under Power Manager | 18:23 |
| golinux | Do go search those places | 18:24 |
| _abc_ | I searched, and found some systemd related things which seem to imply that the mongoloids again changed something in the source of the ui's to accomodate their mongolid spawn, as usual with no respect for other users | 18:24 |
| _abc_ | Meaning, there are specific problems on ubuntu and debian which are fixed by telling systemd-powerd or such to ignore the lid switch using a setting in logind.conf | 18:24 |
| _abc_ | So since the new problem appeared when I updated various things (long list) on that system, I assume a newer, contaminated version of a library came in which made the functionality disappear. | 18:25 |
| gnarface | it's entirely possible it only affected a small subset of the hardware in the wild and you just got unlucky | 18:26 |
| _abc_ | Yes | 18:26 |
| gnarface | make sure you have the pm-utils package installed | 18:26 |
| _abc_ | Another: I have xfce Battery Monitor open properly here but on that system it does not open at all and the icon is wrong. | 18:26 |
| gnarface | pm-utils should come with some scripts, and i think one of them should be for handling the lid switch | 18:27 |
| _abc_ | I think I should reinstall the xfce modules. Can that be done? Or must one reinstall the whole. | 18:27 |
| _abc_ | Since the disk had to be fsckd manually twice it's possible some pieces went missing. | 18:27 |
| gnarface | you can reinstall ANY package | 18:27 |
| _abc_ | Is there an audit utility to check what parts of installed packages do not exist / are wrong size etc? | 18:27 |
| gnarface | surprisingly, no | 18:28 |
| _abc_ | Time to write one, then. | 18:28 |
| _abc_ | Are the snapper tools any use for this? | 18:28 |
| gnarface | it would be a relatively easy task to write one if you could trust that the binary packages were always representative of the source packages they supposedly belong to, but a long time ago Debian made the decision not to enforce that | 18:28 |
| gnarface | i'm not familiar with snapper tools | 18:29 |
| gnarface | i think i would check the pm-utils scripts first, and look for one that's not firing that should | 18:30 |
| gnarface | maybe it'll even be easy to fix | 18:30 |
| gnarface | oh, there is some package called "cruft" that's for identifying unpackaged crud though | 18:32 |
| gnarface | might be useful | 18:32 |
| flrn | _abc_: if the event gets recognized and you can manually suspend the device, all you need to check resp. edit should be under /etc/acpi/, self-explaining. | 18:36 |
| _abc_ | flrn: It works by hand and works by gui from the logout->suspend button for example | 18:37 |
| _abc_ | I think I need to reinstall fvwm and variour apmd/pm related packages | 18:37 |
| flrn | _abc_: I think you just need a file for the event under /etc/acpi/events to trigger the according action (script) under /etc/acpi. | 18:39 |
| _abc_ | The file event works, I wrote a 5 liner bash script to do the hibernate on lid close anyway. | 18:41 |
| rwp | _abc_, (gnarface) Are you familiar with the 'debsums' package? It is a useful integrity checker. | 19:32 |
| gnarface | rwp: it won't cover the issue of verifying if the binary matches the source though, nor will it account for anything preinst/postinst scripts add or change | 19:38 |
| gnarface | literally all it does as far as i was aware anyway, was provide an automated way of checking for package corruption | 19:39 |
| gnarface | which is useful, but also is supposed to be done automatically for every package at installation time already | 19:40 |
| rwp | I agree with everything you are saying. | 19:41 |
| rwp | However sometimes "corruption" occurs later. It is useful to catch changes that have happened later. | 19:41 |
| rwp | Both from humans who poke their fingers into places they shouldn't. (make PREFIX=/usr install) | 19:41 |
| gnarface | yea, that's true. you're right, it's worth mentioning in context of this discussion. i highly doubt that's the issue we're facing here though. | 19:41 |
| rwp | And from hardware that is starting to get flaky. I have a system that is producing what appear to be bit flips in files. But the disk is okay. Probably something in the caching chain. | 19:42 |
| rwp | Topic drift... So this HP business class deskside system has exactly twice detected so far produced a file with a single bit flipped! | 19:43 |
| gnarface | hmm. well that's disturbing | 19:44 |
| rwp | At first I thought it was the disk. But how could a disk controller send out a disk block with a bit flipped? The "CRCs" should catch it, right? (I think it will.) | 19:44 |
| gnarface | could be environmental | 19:44 |
| rwp | Dropping all of the caches with "echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches" did not change anything. I thought that would flush the cache and force a new read from disk. But the result was the same. | 19:44 |
| rwp | However rebooting the system does fix the bit flips. | 19:45 |
| gnarface | strange | 19:45 |
| rwp | So now I am thinking some on controller cache in the disk subsystem is getting soft. | 19:45 |
| gnarface | it could be, but i'm also envisioning a scenario where there's a weak bit of shielding on the sata/ide cable, in an evironment with super heavy RF interference | 19:46 |
| rwp | I noticed it because AIDE flagged the file. But no changes to {a,m,c}time of the file or the directory holding it. | 19:46 |
| rwp | debsums verified it had changed. | 19:46 |
| gnarface | hmm. disturbing for sure. | 19:47 |
| gnarface | i'd even be considering the memory suspect i think | 19:47 |
| rwp | This is just a typical HP business class deskside, I would need to look at the number, but nothing extraordinary about it. | 19:47 |
| rwp | However it is getting up in the years. Been running for a long time. | 19:47 |
| rwp | Initially quite disturbing but now that I think I understand the problem I think it just sad that the system is getting old and dementia is setting in. Such a sad malady. | 19:48 |
| _abc_ | rwp: don't know debsums, worth a look | 19:55 |
| rwp | I only suggested it because you asked about "... parts of installed packages do not exist / are wrong size etc?" and that seemed in the topic area. | 19:56 |
| rwp | I like having a workbench with a variety of tools available to choose from. :-) | 19:57 |
| gnarface | i try never to give up on them | 20:01 |
| gnarface | on the hardware | 20:01 |
| gnarface | i don't accept "dementia" as a diagnosis | 20:01 |
| gnarface | i've seen some really weird and intermittent failures though | 20:02 |
| _abc_ | shuttond down a system by pulling power repeatedly leads exactly to dementia | 20:02 |
| gnarface | some stuff that's hard to trace because it's based on a combination of a BIOS bug and insufficient power etc | 20:02 |
| _abc_ | This is based on a careless person and a battery-less laptop. PBKC. | 20:03 |
| * rwp laughs as I was simply joking that the systems seem similar to the forgetfulness of dementia. | 20:04 | |
| rwp | I think I meant s/systems/symptoms/ there. I have a touch of the problem myself! :-) | 20:05 |
| _abc_ | d in systemd is dementia | 20:10 |
| MaxFun | hi hi! Is it possible to install Firefox 64 in Devuan? Kinda holding me back | 21:38 |
| gnarface | it is possible | 21:39 |
| MaxFun | thanks :D | 21:39 |
| MaxFun | what about kernel 4.20? | 21:41 |
| MaxFun | or even better. using my own config | 21:42 |
| gnarface | the procedure isn't different from debian, just make sure to get the packages from devuan servers | 21:43 |
| MaxFun | I see. Thanks! | 21:43 |
| MaxFun | :D :D :D | 21:43 |
| gnarface | no problem | 21:44 |
| MaxFun | :) | 21:44 |
| bleb | who's responsible for the website? more specifically, that FUCKING scrolling banner | 21:58 |
| plasma41 | bleb: What banner? | 22:00 |
| bleb | plasma41: https://linx.li/selif/gj987mhs.png | 22:02 |
| aggrora | just zoom out your window :) | 22:03 |
| bleb | aggrora: thats not a solution | 22:06 |
| plasma41 | bleb: Interesting. I've never experienced that as I've never run the javascript responsible for that effect. | 22:07 |
| bleb | yeah, would be great if you didn't need umatrix to get a nonshitty site | 22:07 |
| aggrora | How would you suggest to fix it then? I meen, It seems to be responsive when you zoom alot, then just the icons apear. | 22:08 |
| plasma41 | ping golinux | 22:09 |
| redrick | 'golinux, white courtesy telephone, please.' | 22:11 |
| plasma41 | golinux: Maybe we should remove the javascript that is responsible for sticky-ing behavior applied to the menu banner that bleb pointed out above. | 22:14 |
| plasma41 | It looks like the last two lines in https://devuan.org/ui/js/all.js are responsible for that behaviour. | 22:15 |
| plasma41 | Looks like it's a small script hellekian wrote. | 22:17 |
| redrick | $(window).scroll(function() { n("#sticky-bar", e, "sticky"), n("#read article > h1", t, "sticky-2") | 22:17 |
| plasma41 | I happen to agree that that banner should scroll out of view and not monopolize screen space. | 22:19 |
| gnarface | i really feel sorry for anyone who still needs the window to be that small | 22:19 |
| golinux | There is no javascript on the devuan website. | 22:22 |
| golinux | Or I thought their wasn't. | 22:23 |
| golinux | I cut that stuff with ublock origin or ad block | 22:24 |
| greyeax | hey there, i have a quick question - will packages intended for debian work with devuan? | 22:24 |
| greyeax | for example, Bitwig Studio is distributed as a .deb intended for Debian | 22:24 |
| plasma41 | I had thought so too, but LibreJS blocked it for me. | 22:24 |
| golinux | They are already in Devuan if they are not tied to systemd | 22:25 |
| golinux | Be cautious about third party repos | 22:25 |
| gnarface | greyeax: it works but it can break your dependency tree, sabotaging later upgrades | 22:25 |
| greyeax | i see | 22:25 |
| greyeax | is there any way to like, check? | 22:25 |
| golinux | Do not use debian repos directly. | 22:25 |
| greyeax | golinux: it's a proprietary software | 22:25 |
| gnarface | it's probably safe if the package depends on nothing and changes nothing outside it's own files | 22:25 |
| greyeax | it's a one off .deb distributed by website | 22:26 |
| golinux | Does no one new here read the website before asking questions? | 22:26 |
| gnarface | hehe | 22:26 |
| golinux | https://devuan.org/get-devuan below the mirror lists | 22:27 |
| greyeax | golinux: i'm referring to a single proprietary package distributed as a .deb binary my dude | 22:27 |
| greyeax | not an entire repo | 22:27 |
| golinux | It's one f'ing para | 22:27 |
| golinux | Devuan package repositories are exclusive. Other repositories, including Debian, Ubuntu, Mint etc, should NOT be used directly. | 22:27 |
| golinux | And a short one at that | 22:28 |
| greyeax | golinux: you know, your condescending attitude does not mesh with your inability to read | 22:28 |
| greyeax | i am not adding | 22:28 |
| greyeax | a repo | 22:28 |
| golinux | Now some logic what populates a repo? Packages! | 22:29 |
| plasma41 | golinux: greyeax is not talking about a package in debian | 22:29 |
| golinux | Packages from any 3rd party source could create a frankendevuan | 22:30 |
| golinux | I know what vhe | 22:30 |
| greyeax | yes but a repo could pull in multiple non-standard packages. a single package with an unsatisfiable dependancy would simply fail | 22:30 |
| greyeax | there is a significant difference here | 22:30 |
| golinux | 'oops (s)he's talking about. | 22:30 |
| greyeax | i am also referring to, once again | 22:30 |
| gnarface | greyeax: the important part is that breakages have been known to occur. it all depends on what assumptions the package makes. you might get away with it. it will probably work initially. the damage is not often initially apparent. | 22:30 |
| plasma41 | greyeax: run 'dpkg-deb --info packagename.deb'. If the package does not depend on systemd and works in Debian, it should work in Devuan. | 22:31 |
| greyeax | plasma41: thanks | 22:31 |
| golinux | https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian/#Don.27t_make_a_FrankenDebian | 22:31 |
| plasma41 | greyeax: Your computer, your rules; however, you would do well to heed ^that^ link from golinux | 22:33 |
| poeinklum | Hello Devuaners | 22:45 |
| plasma41 | poeinklum: hello | 22:46 |
| poeinklum | I'm using ASCII, and I'm having trouble changing the default player for AVI files from Dragon to Gnome MPV | 22:46 |
| poeinklum | (with Cinnamon) | 22:46 |
| poeinklum | I don't get any error message, but the default doesn't change. | 22:47 |
| gnarface | you installed gnome-mpv? | 22:47 |
| poeinklum | I _am_ able to change default apps for opening some other file types. | 22:47 |
| poeinklum | gnarface: Yes, and it opens AVI files fine | 22:47 |
| gnarface | it might have to to with alternatives | 22:47 |
| gnarface | i forget how to search it | 22:48 |
| poeinklum | $ readlink -f /usr/bin/gnome-mpv | 22:48 |
| poeinklum | /usr/bin/gnome-mpv | 22:48 |
| plasma41 | poeinklum: If you're using Xfce, you should be able change that by running xfce4-mime-settings. | 22:49 |
| se7en | gnome-mpv??? | 22:49 |
| se7en | just use lain mpv, lol | 22:49 |
| se7en | Bloat | 22:49 |
| gnarface | poeinklum: no, i mean that cinnamon might be calling some alternative instead of gnome-mpv | 22:49 |
| gnarface | poeinklum: instead of Dragon, rather | 22:50 |
| se7en | xfce is also bloat | 22:50 |
| plasma41 | D'oh. I missed where you said you were running Cinnamon. | 22:50 |
| bleb | 16:24 < golinux> I cut that stuff with ublock origin or ad block | 22:50 |
| bleb | so everyone blocks this crap on the devuan website | 22:51 |
| poeinklum | se7en: Then I'm sure you can convince people here to stop packaging those terrible pieces of software you don't like. | 22:51 |
| se7en | :p | 22:51 |
| bleb | golinux: are you someone who has access to the server and can remove it? | 22:51 |
| poeinklum | gnarface: Why would that prevent me from changing the default player to something that's _not_ Dragon? | 22:51 |
| gnarface | poeinklum: well only if it was calling something like x-video-player instead | 22:52 |
| golinux | bleb: Yes. | 22:52 |
| gnarface | poeinklum: i'm not even sure of an appropriate example in this case, but if you're sure it is actually calling dragon directly, than nevermind | 22:52 |
| poeinklum | gnarface: http://i.imgur.com/4yUHTW7.png | 22:53 |
| gnarface | poeinklum: you're aware of /etc/alternatives, right? | 22:53 |
| poeinklum | gnarface: Yes, of course | 22:53 |
| bleb | golinux: so you'll can it? :) | 22:53 |
| poeinklum | But neither /usr/bin/gnome-mpv nor nor /usr/bin/dragon are links | 22:53 |
| golinux | Probably | 22:54 |
| poeinklum | gnarface: and there's no alternative with "player" or "video" in its name | 22:54 |
| gnarface | poeinklum: might just be a bug. i don't know, sorry. | 22:54 |
| bleb | golinux: cool... no rush | 22:54 |
| poeinklum | gnarface: Question is, is it a Devuan bug, Debian bug, or upstream package bug? Or a comibination of those? Or rather - where should I file it? | 22:54 |
| gnarface | it's part of cinnamon? | 22:55 |
| golinux | It should degrade more gracefully. | 22:55 |
| golinux | poeinklum: Look for outstanding bugs first so you know the right place to submit it. | 22:56 |
| poeinklum | golinux: Ok, but _where_? ... :-) | 22:56 |
| golinux | bleb: Problem is that with zoom, layouts can go pear-shaped rather easily | 22:57 |
| golinux | Search debian bugs and lists and forums | 22:57 |
| golinux | Also search pkginfo.devuan.org | 22:58 |
| bleb | golinux: i see that it's going pear shaped on a 1024px wide screen, but that is orthogonal to the scrolling | 22:59 |
| golinux | There are two issues: Pear shaped and sticky bar | 23:00 |
| bleb | yeah | 23:00 |
| golinux | The markdown is a rat's nest. I need to be 100% and no distractions before jumping in | 23:01 |
| bleb | for the former the site could just be redesigned so that the donate and download buttons don't need to but right aligned | 23:02 |
| golinux | Maybe of the weekend. | 23:02 |
| bleb | i mean the debian website looks 100% fine and better than the devuan site in every way | 23:02 |
| Jjp137 | from what I can tell looking at the CSS (I'm no expert), it becomes icons-only if the width of the window is 640px or less | 23:02 |
| golinux | :(( | 23:02 |
| Jjp137 | until then, the "Community", "Free Software", etc. text stays | 23:02 |
| Jjp137 | the selector is "@media only screen and (max-width: 640px) #sticky-bar .u-pull-left a>span" | 23:03 |
| Jjp137 | hopefully that helps a bit | 23:03 |
| Jjp137 | dunno what best practices are in this case | 23:03 |
| bleb | so complex | 23:03 |
| bleb | just design the top bar so that it doesn't look weird for text to become 2 lines | 23:04 |
| bleb | if you zoom in on the debian website the top bar becomes 2 lines and i looks fine | 23:04 |
| golinux | I don't think I have had a window small enough to see icons only. | 23:04 |
| golinux | I inherited the rat's nest. | 23:04 |
| Jjp137 | you'd probably have to zoom in to something like 200% or more | 23:05 |
| redrick | bleb: Maybe if you repeat a bunch more times how much better a different distro's Web site works, healing powers will emerge and fix Devuan's. | 23:05 |
| golinux | Mostly have kept to changing colors and text. The css is scary! | 23:05 |
| bleb | redrick: maybe, but its more likely that it will serve as an example to whoever updates the website | 23:07 |
| golinux | the nav bar on https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ behaves much better | 23:07 |
| golinux | Yeah that's what many users think. | 23:08 |
| golinux | It's always someone else who gets to fix whatever.omeone else | 23:08 |
| redrick | bleb: I like your theory that being obnoxious motivates others. You don't have controlling patent right, I hope? | 23:09 |
| golinux | oops. Ignore that last bit. | 23:09 |
| golinux | Not redrick's. My typo | 23:09 |
| bleb | redrick: you must have meant to direct that at someone who said that being obnoxious motivates others? | 23:10 |
| * golinux . . . popcorn time | 23:11 | |
| redrick | bleb: Self-knowledge is such a difficult thing, nei? ;-> | 23:11 |
| bleb | redrick: you mean to imply that i think being obnoxious motivates others? | 23:12 |
| bleb | or are you saying that its obnoxious to point out materials that could be useful in solving a problem? | 23:12 |
| bleb | spell it out | 23:13 |
| redrick | Unfortunately, just grabbing random snippets from site A that is deemed to 'look good' and jam that into site B is not a plan. | 23:13 |
| bleb | redrick: yeah it would take a bit more planning i agree | 23:13 |
| redrick | I think, then, that it'd be excellent for you to demonstrate how by submitting a patch, which I expect golinux would await eagerly. | 23:14 |
| redrick | Thereby showing how 'useful in solving a problem' works in this context. | 23:15 |
| golinux | As long as the layout of the nav bar stays the same. The problem is how it degrades. | 23:17 |
| bleb | redrick: yeah that would demonstrate it | 23:18 |
| bleb | i don't assume everything i write will be excellent though | 23:18 |
| plasma41 | [Progressive enhancement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement) > [Graceful degredation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graceful_degradation) | 23:20 |
| golinux | Every site I have coded from scratch expands and squishes perfectly. ;) | 23:24 |
| golinux | Like refracta.org | 23:26 |
| plasma41 | afk | 23:32 |
| poeinklum | golinux: But won't people tell me to piss off since I'm using Devuan rather than Debian? I've gotten that on #debian right here on Freenode... | 23:48 |
| MaxFun | I guess I have to dl the latest Firejail version before installing Devuan. The one in the Mint repo is old | 23:52 |
| golinux | poeinklum: Just search silently. | 23:59 |
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