| gnarface | the stuff systemd changed in debian includes default device permissions and power management stuff | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | iatrogenic: what does dmesg say when you plug in the kindle? | 00:07 |
| iatrogenic | Kindle does show up "Bus 003 Device 023: ID 1949:0004 Lab126, Inc. Amazon Kindle 3/4/Paperwhite" | 00:07 |
| gnarface | does it refer to a specific /dev/ file anywhere in the output? | 00:08 |
| gnarface | maybe more than one? | 00:09 |
| iatrogenic | Ah, it's a permission issue. Running it as root works | 00:10 |
| gnarface | yea, that's a common problem people run into. systemd (insecurely) grants full access to all devices by default to the currently logged-in console user. devuan (and debian wheezy and earlier) makes no distinction, and obeys the filesystem. | 00:11 |
| gnarface | this will bite you in the ass if you're trying to get a Steam Controller working too, just fyi, but i can provide you help fixing the udev rules | 00:12 |
| iatrogenic | How do I specifically grant full access to it, gnarface? | 00:12 |
| gnarface | temporarily or permanently? | 00:13 |
| iatrogenic | permanently | 00:13 |
| gnarface | there's a few ways | 00:13 |
| gnarface | but permanently the two primary ways would be either you 1) edit the udev rules or 2) edit the user's group memberships | 00:14 |
| gnarface | if you're really a control freak like me you can do both | 00:14 |
| gnarface | what are the default user and group memberships for the file? | 00:14 |
| gnarface | maybe the default udev rules already put it in a useful group you can add your user to | 00:14 |
| gnarface | like, a lot of cameras go in the "video" group, which you have to be in for nvidia drivers too | 00:16 |
| gnarface | so in that example it's easy enough to just add your user to the video group | 00:16 |
| gnarface | (then relog) | 00:16 |
| gnarface | (for group memberships change everywhere you'll want to log out and log back in as part of the standard procedure) | 00:17 |
| gnarface | i can help you with specifics but fyi the debian *wheezy* documentation on how to do this stuff should also be still pertinent, if you're having trouble finding the right info | 00:19 |
| gnarface | iatrogenic: sorry, maybe i wasn't clear enough, what are the permissions on the /dev/ node? | 00:19 |
| iatrogenic | gnarface: brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 16 Jan 14 22:44 /dev/sdb | 00:22 |
| iatrogenic | What do I look for in the documentation, gnarface? | 00:23 |
| gnarface | well, there's a debian wiki that's still a lot better populated than anything we have | 00:23 |
| gnarface | though i suspect someone has written something about this stuff on the forums too (mentioned in channel topic) | 00:24 |
| gnarface | this is a bit of a tricky issue | 00:24 |
| gnarface | it's in the "disk" group by default, which would be a security risk to add your user to, as all your disks are in the disk group | 00:24 |
| iatrogenic | Well, it's fine. For now just running it as root should do | 00:24 |
| gnarface | i can help you add yourself to the disk group, that's really easy | 00:24 |
| gnarface | easier than always running it as root | 00:24 |
| gnarface | though arguably maybe not any more or less secure | 00:25 |
| gnarface | maybe less actually | 00:25 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure | 00:25 |
| gnarface | but you could also make a udev rule to give this one device a custom group | 00:25 |
| iatrogenic | Isn't that just "useradd -G disk myuser" ? | 00:26 |
| gnarface | or make it globally readable and writeable (not sure if that's a safer idea or not, overall... it's less safe for the kindle but more safe for the rest of the computer) | 00:26 |
| gnarface | i'm pretty sure you can use useradd still, but the "debianized" tools are adduser/addgroup | 00:26 |
| gnarface | you can still just edit /etc/group and /etc/passwd by hand too | 00:27 |
| gnarface | the most secure approach would be to write a custom udev rule for this one device but that's a pain in the ass to figure out | 00:28 |
| iatrogenic | So sudo adduser me disk ? | 00:28 |
| gnarface | lemme look... | 00:28 |
| iatrogenic | Ah, security isn't a big concern for me | 00:28 |
| gnarface | ok, just as long as you're sure you understand the implications | 00:28 |
| gnarface | raw disk access is something you could do a lot of damage with | 00:29 |
| gnarface | and yes | 00:29 |
| gnarface | it's "adduser user group" | 00:30 |
| iatrogenic | But didn't you say systemd does this by default? Are distros that use systemd that insecure? | 00:30 |
| gnarface | heh, yes | 00:30 |
| gnarface | but so is windows so people don't care, i guess. :( | 00:30 |
| iatrogenic | It's more about the time it takes to learn and get used to this stuff | 00:31 |
| iatrogenic | Too often I just end up looking for step-by-step instructions instead of taking some time to read a man page.. | 00:32 |
| iatrogenic | Bad habits | 00:32 |
| iatrogenic | But I picked devuan with the intent of making an effort of actually learning something | 00:32 |
| gnarface | try to remember you gain more than a solution to the immediate task, you gain understanding that will simplify future tasks in unexpected ways | 00:33 |
| gnarface | and most of it you'll only have to learn once :) | 00:33 |
| gnarface | the hardest part about learning it is just how humbling it all is when you understand it well enough to know when it's actually your fault or the software's fault | 00:34 |
| gnarface | but everyone goes through that | 00:34 |
| iatrogenic | And usually, blindly following that sort of stuff just ends up breaking things and having no clue on how to fix it | 00:34 |
| gnarface | windows also sets low expectations on payoff - it's often inscrutable even after reading the built-in help | 00:35 |
| gnarface | the built-in help for linux isn't as good as BSD but it's a lot better than windows, and worth reading | 00:36 |
| gnarface | it'll pay off, have faith in that | 00:36 |
| gnarface | and people on irc will always be willing to help if you're patient enough | 00:36 |
| iatrogenic | I'll keep at it. Thanks for the words of wisdom | 00:38 |
| iatrogenic | Restarting to see if it worked | 00:38 |
| bsd4me | Got a few problems, but running devuan with 4.19 kernel :) | 00:40 |
| gnarface | heh, nice. custom build, bsd4me? or did you pilfer a kernel from another distro? | 00:41 |
| bsd4me | lol, just used the mini.iso and went from there | 00:42 |
| gnarface | oh i see | 00:42 |
| gnarface | so that's based on beowulf? | 00:43 |
| bsd4me | Linux devuan 4.19.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.12-1 (2018-12-22) x86_64 GNU/Linux | 00:43 |
| bsd4me | yes | 00:43 |
| gnarface | if you're having problems getting the graphical environment to work right, i'm pretty sure there's a thread on the forums about it | 00:43 |
| bsd4me | now trying to find all the firmware I need that wasn't installed at installation :) | 00:43 |
| bsd4me | I'm on xfce4 now :) | 00:44 |
| gnarface | cool | 00:44 |
| bsd4me | mainly trying to find all firmware files for ath10k wireless. Found one, but missing couple others evidently. | 00:45 |
| gnarface | i think there's a firmware-atheros package | 00:47 |
| gnarface | in non-free | 00:47 |
| gnarface | as well as a firmware-linux-nonfree package | 00:47 |
| gnarface | (which i don't know if you need) | 00:47 |
| gnarface | and also a firmware-linux-free package, which i also don't know if you need | 00:47 |
| gnarface | and various other vendor-specific firmware packages | 00:47 |
| bsd4me | yes, installed the firmware-atheros pkg, but still missing couple of files. But I'm getting there :) | 00:48 |
| gnarface | it is also possible they're that new | 00:48 |
| gnarface | the files, that is | 00:48 |
| gnarface | that they're not in the package yet | 00:48 |
| gnarface | but maybe they're just in another package too | 00:48 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure | 00:49 |
| bsd4me | ugh...hope that isn't true, since I really need wireless | 00:49 |
| gnarface | well, if you know for sure they're supposed to be in the firmware-atheros package, check to see if there's a newer copy in ceres | 00:49 |
| bsd4me | I'm looking at the wiki/firmware page and going thru all the files. | 00:49 |
| gnarface | normally you'd expect a complaint of some sort in the dmesg output if firmware files are missing | 00:50 |
| bsd4me | where do I look for ceres packages? | 00:50 |
| bsd4me | yes, that's what I'm seeing | 00:50 |
| gnarface | pkginfo.devuan.org | 00:50 |
| bsd4me | ah, thank you much! | 00:51 |
| gnarface | though, looking now it seems like beowulf should have the same version of that package as ceres as well as ascii-backports | 00:51 |
| gnarface | you might actually need to get the files from atheros's website or something like that | 00:52 |
| gnarface | it might be a known bug | 00:53 |
| gnarface | i'd check debian's bug tracker for issues related to that package | 00:53 |
| bsd4me | search brought up name, but no file? | 00:53 |
| bsd4me | ok, shows files under stable tho | 00:54 |
| bsd4me | oops, spoke too soon :) | 00:55 |
| gnarface | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=903437 | 01:00 |
| gnarface | is this the same issue? | 01:00 |
| gnarface | there appears to be evidence this happens a lot with this package :( | 01:01 |
| bsd4me | :( yes | 01:06 |
| bsd4me | but works fine with other distros that I've been trying on this laptop | 01:06 |
| gnarface | oh? well that means those files exist somewhere | 01:07 |
| gnarface | you can just copy them into this directory manually | 01:07 |
| gnarface | that will work if they're the right version and everything | 01:07 |
| gnarface | did you try other distros using kernel 4.21 or something? | 01:08 |
| bsd4me | I have Slackware current with 4.19, linuxmint with 4.20 | 01:09 |
| bsd4me | lol, also used fedora and manjaro. Been trying different distros to see how they work on this laptop. Wireless worked fine on all of them, but I have a very strong dislike for systemd :) | 01:10 |
| gnarface | hmmm. interesting. well, like i said. copying in the files manually should work. i wonder what the hold up is, but i'm sure someone will fix it eventually. | 01:12 |
| bsd4me | Was just looking at /lib/firmware. Probably what I'll do is as you suggested, copy from another. | 01:14 |
| gnarface | that should be a suitable temporary fix anyway | 01:14 |
| gnarface | hopefully they'll fix it soon | 01:15 |
| golinux | bsd4me: Did you reade the Release Notes? | 01:15 |
| bsd4me | golinux: ummm, nope, just installed from iso you mentioned. | 01:16 |
| gnarface | golinux: i think it's legitimately a bug in the package from upstream | 01:16 |
| gnarface | missing firmware files | 01:16 |
| gnarface | unless you know something specific about it | 01:17 |
| bsd4me | golinux: I did read the readme.testing file tho | 01:17 |
| golinux | sources.list? Yeah, right. No release notes for beowulf yet. But the ascii release notes will be helpful to sort polkit stiff. | 01:18 |
| golinux | This was my solution for xfce desktop: https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=50562#p50562 | 01:18 |
| golinux | You need to have non-free enabled. Sources should point to pkgmaster | 01:20 |
| golinux | Hi prkman. Long time no see | 01:20 |
| golinux | Trying again . . . pekman | 01:20 |
| pekman | hi golinux | 01:21 |
| golinux | :D | 01:21 |
| drwhite | hi folks | 01:41 |
| drwhite | I just heard that Devuan is going to become SystemD, is this true? | 01:42 |
| Xenguy | bjb: You oot and aboot? | 02:09 |
| Xenguy | drwhite: What? Citations please! | 02:09 |
| fsmithred | Were there any messages for me while I was away? | 02:10 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred: I recall your nick was mentioned | 02:10 |
| Xenguy | wb | 02:10 |
| golinux | drwhite: hahahaha! Not while we still draw breath. | 02:11 |
| fsmithred | thanks | 02:11 |
| Xenguy | They'll pry my non-systemd system out of... oh, never mind | 02:11 |
| fsmithred | we'll just hack them and shut them down before they can take it away from you | 02:12 |
| Xenguy | I like that scenario | 02:16 |
| drwhite | golinux: Good to hear. I heard it was because so much software is coming out as systemd integrated and it was a pain and hard to keep up with it all to revert it back to sysvinit | 02:34 |
| drwhite | golinux: Or will they just remove sysvinit and go openrc or other selection? | 02:35 |
| golinux | openrc is already and option | 02:37 |
| golinux | And yes, it requires more effort with each release. We can always use more help to clean contaminated packages. | 02:38 |
| drwhite | how does one clean them? | 02:38 |
| fsmithred | bbiab | 02:39 |
| golinux | By removing hard systemd dependencies | 02:39 |
| drwhite | golinux: So there has been nothing stating anywhere that devuan is switching to systemd? | 02:39 |
| golinux | Not a chance. | 02:39 |
| drwhite | Okay, good to hear | 02:39 |
| drwhite | golinux: I'll try to find out where this information originated from | 02:40 |
| golinux | Thanks. | 02:42 |
| golinux | I heard this morning from a good source that Devuan is trending on social media. Might be because of the latest vulnerabilities | 02:44 |
| Xenguy | What they have 'social media' (what is IRC?) and they just found about Devuan now? | 02:45 |
| Xenguy | Nice to have more eyes focussed on Devuan though | 02:45 |
| golinux | Indeed. | 02:48 |
| drwhite | golinux: Still trying to find out.. | 03:07 |
| drwhite | golinux: I was unable to post in the dev channel earlier. lol | 03:07 |
| drwhite | golinux: aparently it was a report where it was discussed. Not a report saying that it was. | 03:54 |
| drwhite | Just discussed as in saying about how it was hard to get all that stuff dont. | 03:54 |
| drwhite | dont -> done | 03:54 |
| drwhite | If I knew how to get rid of systemD requirements from things, I'd help out. But unfortunately I don't know how. | 03:55 |
| proteus-dude | golinux, what vulnerabilities are you referring to? I'm just curious. | 04:05 |
| proteus-dude | was something new found in systemd? | 04:06 |
| golinux | proteus-dude: https://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/all/2019/01/10/systemd_bugs_qualys/ | 04:22 |
| golinux | I think the bugs have been fixed | 04:22 |
| golinux | But no doubt, more to come. | 04:22 |
| watchcat | if ascii had been the first devuan release, i think it would have taken off bigtime. the jessie release might have given people a bad impression. | 04:24 |
| proteus-dude | golinux, geeez..... | 04:25 |
| proteus-dude | thanx for the pointer | 04:25 |
| * proteus-dude runs kubuntu 14.04 which is the last pre-systemd version and is about to hit end of life. Buying a new laptop soon and will be giving devuan a whirl. Tried funtoo last year but was too much work keeping it running and updated. | 04:26 | |
| watchcat | proteus-dude: ascii is the cat's ass. i can't believe how good it is. | 04:28 |
| proteus-dude | watchcat, will give it a try in a couple of weeks. | 04:29 |
| furrymcgee | how to apache2ctl start with devuan chroot? apache2ctl start reads pid 1 and is requesting systemctl but this does not exist with devuan in debian chroot | 10:51 |
| Guest52438 | hi guys. I removed systemd and installed sysvinit from Jessie. Now ctl-alt-f2 to f5 doesn't work.ctl-alt-f1 and f7 do. OS works fine otherwise. You guys have any idea why? | 14:11 |
| buZz | Guest52438: those terminals are spawned from config in /etc/inittab | 14:13 |
| buZz | ctrl-alt-f1 ; 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 | 14:13 |
| buZz | ctrl-alt-f2 ; 2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 | 14:13 |
| buZz | etc | 14:13 |
| Guest52438 | my /etc/inittab looks like this | 14:15 |
| buZz | Guest52438: pastebin.com | 14:17 |
| Guest52438 | sorry, paste is not allowed? | 14:17 |
| buZz | not when >3 lines | 14:19 |
| buZz | its pretty offensive to paste endless txt to >200 people just cause you dont want to use pastebin.com ;) | 14:19 |
| Guest52438 | sorry, newb. https://pastebin.com/jCkxQuFg | 14:20 |
| Guest52438 | it's identical to /usr/share/sysvinit/inittab | 14:21 |
| Guest52438 | except for run level | 14:21 |
| Guest52438 | changed to 4 instead of 2 | 14:22 |
| buZz | wait, does ctrl-alt-f2 etc also not work -BEFORE- starting X? | 14:23 |
| Guest52438 | never tried it. I've only tried while using openbox. | 14:24 |
| Guest52438 | so GUI to console | 14:25 |
| buZz | well, your xorg config needs to allow it aswell ;) | 14:28 |
| Guest52438 | which file? | 14:29 |
| buZz | not sure | 14:31 |
| furrymcgee | regarding my question apache2 in chroot: export APACHE_STARTED_BY_SYSTEMD=false in apache2/envars for what its worth | 14:32 |
| Guest52438 | thanks. we'll see. | 14:34 |
| AntoFox | o/ | 14:37 |
| Guest52438 | btw, is devuan libre only OS? I tried Refracta and the resolution was 1024x786. I couldn't figure it out so I gave up at that time. | 14:41 |
| fsmithred | Guest52438, you can use non-free and contrib sources, same as debian | 14:53 |
| Guest52438 | thanks. | 14:55 |
| fsmithred | what's your graphics card? | 14:55 |
| fsmithred | and what happens when you try ctrl-alt-F2? Nothing? Go to black screen? | 14:56 |
| buZz | refracta is only based on devuan ;) like ubuntu is based on debian | 16:24 |
| buZz | they're not specifically related, per-say | 16:24 |
| fsmithred | buZz, that's not exactly right - refracta uses devuan repos. | 16:28 |
| fsmithred | it's just a re-spin, not a truly distinct distro. | 16:28 |
| buZz | fsmithred: ah yeah,. true | 16:28 |
| buZz | but refracta could just split off to a different base without 'devuan's actions | 16:29 |
| fsmithred | maybe some firmware package was needed. No non-free or contrib are installed in refracta. | 16:29 |
| fsmithred | what are you getting me into??? | 16:29 |
| buZz | <3 | 16:29 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I could switch it back to debian if I wanted. | 16:29 |
| buZz | refracta was debian prior? | 16:30 |
| fsmithred | yes | 16:30 |
| buZz | are you the maintainer fsmithred ? :P | 16:30 |
| fsmithred | version numbers are still in sync with debian versions | 16:30 |
| fsmithred | yeah, that's mine | 16:30 |
| buZz | :) ok, TIL | 16:30 |
| niknak | I have a question: what is latest live in download repos? Jessie or ascii? | 18:44 |
| niknak | ascii looks like it, per /topic? | 18:44 |
| Liebach | Hello | 18:55 |
| iatrogenic | Does anyone know what could be causing fonts to look like this? Present in other websites like twitter, etc... https://i.imgur.com/kIpSa8f.png | 20:02 |
| gnarface | iatrogenic: looks like anti-aliasing is off. there's a few things that might have caused it, like not having any truetype fonts installed and it falling back to some older format that didn't support anti-aliasing | 20:08 |
| gnarface | (try installing ttf-bitstream-vera and restart the browser then see if it goes away) | 20:08 |
| gnarface | actually you might need to restart Xorg | 20:09 |
| gnarface | not sure about that | 20:09 |
| iatrogenic | I have some truetype fonts installed so it's not that | 20:10 |
| iatrogenic | Just installing that package and restarting firefox didn't work. I'll try restartin xorg | 20:10 |
| iatrogenic | It did not work, gnarface | 20:15 |
| iatrogenic | Online people recommend installing infinately. But I've read elsewhere that it's outdated | 20:16 |
| _abc_ | I've tried to move var etc home and tmp as leaf mounts on root in ascii, then remount root as ro. I could not. Why is this not possible? | 20:19 |
| _abc_ | I could use lsof etc to find out what holds root open ro, but I would like an official answer? | 20:20 |
| KatolaZ | _abc_: defide "I coudl not" | 20:20 |
| _abc_ | mount / -o remount,ro - failed, device in use | 20:20 |
| _abc_ | with -f it succeeds but nothing happens to fstab/mtab | 20:21 |
| KatolaZ | _abc_: when are you attempting to remount? | 20:21 |
| KatolaZ | (at which stage of boot?) | 20:21 |
| gnarface | iatrogenic: i've never heard of that so i can confirm you don't need it. you shouldn't be having this problem anymore though unless you broke something yourself. typically it would be in the form of an omitted package, or an omitted line from your xorg.conf, or an invalid path to the fonts in your xorg.conf.... any of that ring a bell? was this a minimal install? an upgrade from another system? do you have a custom | 20:22 |
| gnarface | xorg.conf left over from an earlier era perhaps? | 20:22 |
| KatolaZ | iatrogenic: are you sure you didn't uninstall xfonts-*dpi? | 20:24 |
| gnarface | _abc_: that doesn't work. you can't remount the root partition you're currently running from. you have to pivot_root to another root filesystem first while you do that. (fyi it would be WAY easier to just set it to be read-only already at boot time in /etc/fstab) | 20:24 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: if it is read-only can I leaf mount etc var home on it? | 20:27 |
| _abc_ | I mean can the system? | 20:27 |
| gnarface | _abc_: i'm not sure what you mean by a "leaf mount" ... you mean can those be separate partitions? if so, yes. | 20:27 |
| _abc_ | I set option ro on root in fstab and it is ignored. The rootfs is mounted rw | 20:28 |
| gnarface | in fact it's advisable that /var is a separate partition | 20:28 |
| gnarface | it's NOT advisable that /var is read-only | 20:28 |
| gnarface | but i'm not your momma | 20:28 |
| gnarface | really? lemme see your fstab | 20:28 |
| KatolaZ | _abc_: /var cannot be read-only... | 20:28 |
| KatolaZ | just for the fact that you have /var/log into it | 20:28 |
| KatolaZ | unless you are going east with your setup | 20:28 |
| _abc_ | var is obviously not ro, root is marked ro, and is mounted rw anyway | 20:28 |
| gnarface | KatolaZ: is that strictly true? i think it'll work if you kill off literally every daemon, as well as kernel logging... | 20:29 |
| gnarface | i admit to never trying it though | 20:29 |
| _abc_ | var has to be rw | 20:29 |
| KatolaZ | gnarface: sure, but you would be as blind as a blinfolded blind person in a black chamber... | 20:29 |
| gnarface | sure, true | 20:29 |
| KatolaZ | :D | 20:29 |
| _abc_ | In general, var, tmp, etc (sometimes), home should be rw, root can be ro | 20:29 |
| gnarface | root can be ro, but it's probably not what you're going for. i think you probably want /boot to be ro, and leave the rest as normal | 20:31 |
| gnarface | (obviously implying you have /boot as a separate partition) | 20:31 |
| gnarface | root should be the only one with access to / anyway | 20:32 |
| gnarface | er, the only one with write access | 20:32 |
| gnarface | i honestly can't tell you why your fstab would be getting ignored unless it was a syntax error though | 20:32 |
| golinux | iatrogenic: serif fonts suck. That is the first offense of that screenie. | 21:17 |
| golinux | _abc_: Still here/ | 21:17 |
| iatrogenic | It's from a random blog, golinux | 21:24 |
| golinux | You can choose the font your browser uses, | 21:24 |
| iatrogenic | https://i.imgur.com/5FhXLWO.png an example of how it looks on twitter | 21:25 |
| gnarface | iatrogenic: yea can you just make sure your firefox preferences aren't doing this to you? | 21:26 |
| gnarface | another possibility would involve all your tests so far being through Wine | 21:26 |
| gnarface | you aren't doing that to us without saying so, are you? | 21:27 |
| gnarface | cause Wine doesn't enable font anti-aliasing by default either | 21:27 |
| iatrogenic | I've only changed the font before and now changed it back to the default | 21:27 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 21:27 |
| iatrogenic | I don't have Wine installed | 21:27 |
| gnarface | ok | 21:27 |
| gnarface | do you have the packages fontconfig and fontconfig-config installed? | 21:27 |
| gnarface | if not, install them both. if so, run "dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config" | 21:27 |
| iatrogenic | Yes, I have them | 21:28 |
| golinux | iatrogenic: I noticed in that text a recommendation to use a PPA. Please don't do that. It could break your system. | 21:28 |
| golinux | Only use packages from devuan repos not even from Debian. | 21:29 |
| iatrogenic | Thanks, I was only considering it if nothing else worked | 21:33 |
| iatrogenic | Anyway this is not system-breaking I'll try looking a bit more into it later, thanks for the help | 21:33 |
| _abc_ | golinux: sorry was away with chores and norsing my mozzie bite. In January. I sprayed etc. Terrible. | 21:40 |
| _abc_ | golinux: go ahead | 21:40 |
| golinux | You were asking about the location of a script in in live installer. | 21:42 |
| _abc_ | Oh I think I've moved on. | 21:42 |
| golinux | I talked to fsmithred and he said to look in /lib/live/boot and /lib/live/config | 21:42 |
| _abc_ | The fsck is however a clusterf* currently. At boot, initrd has a go at fsck, then the scripts in /etc/init.d/checkroot.sh has a go then the /etc/init.d/checkfs.sh has a go. Crazy. | 21:43 |
| _abc_ | golinux: ok, thanks. All the best to fsmithred heh. Whatever his problems are. | 21:43 |
| golinux | He got reconnected last night so will be around again | 21:43 |
| golinux | In fact is is right now! | 21:44 |
| _abc_ | Another way to skin this cat is to use fsmithred's refracta2usb but put the live system on the hdd, and handle the ro mounts I need as overlayfs's | 21:44 |
| golinux | he is . . .duh | 21:44 |
| _abc_ | Duh? | 21:44 |
| golinux | corrected a typo | 21:44 |
| * _abc_ waves welcome to fsmithred | 21:44 | |
| golinux | My brain and fingers are not well-connected | 21:45 |
| _abc_ | No problem. Deep Winter here, been ambling outdoors for 5 hours today, I am broken. Also flu end. Great combo. | 21:45 |
| _abc_ | Are modern devuans like ascii even able to boot without initrd? What happens if I set it to none in the boot kernel cli? | 21:46 |
| _abc_ | I'll be in and out myself a bit, aka abcabc_* sometimes (phone) | 21:46 |
| golinux | I have no idea. Probably depends on your setup. With a DE probably not. | 21:47 |
| _abc_ | DE? | 21:47 |
| golinux | Desktop Environment | 21:47 |
| _abc_ | Hm? What has the DE got to do with it? | 21:49 |
| golinux | automagic stuff. | 21:49 |
| gnarface | iatrogenic: lemme know if you figure it out... could be a bug but in most cases this type of thing is a user error | 21:49 |
| gnarface | iatrogenic: it's fringe, but it might be even be some gtk theme issue | 21:50 |
| gnarface | see if you can find some programs where the fonts look right ... that might be a clue | 21:50 |
| golinux | gtk would affect the browser frame but not the contents. From my theming experience same goes for guis. | 21:54 |
| golinux | gnarface: ^^^ | 21:55 |
| gnarface | golinux: can't the theme disable type hinting and font anti-aliasing for truetype fonts, even within the browser rendering window? i thought it could but i don't know for sure. i know none of them do but the options are available in gtk2 at least, someone could do this to themselves. but like i said earlier, it would likely be self-inflicted... | 21:58 |
| gnarface | gtk-xft-antialias=0 | 21:59 |
| gnarface | gtk-xft-hinting=0? | 21:59 |
| gnarface | no? | 21:59 |
| gnarface | gtk-xft-hintstyle-? | 21:59 |
| _abc_ | Is it possible to write a live devuan image to a hdd/ssd and simply boot from it without further need for manual settings? | 21:59 |
| _abc_ | It is a hybrid, so it should boot, no? | 21:59 |
| _abc_ | sata drive, appears as sda when the system is running. | 22:00 |
| _abc_ | I'd like to try that with a refracta2usb image | 22:00 |
| gnarface | _abc_: good question... | 22:00 |
| _abc_ | Well I will try this, there is nothing to lose. | 22:00 |
| gnarface | _abc_: if you're using refracta anyway, you don't need a live image. however i was under the impression that the "install" icon in the existing live image basically just does this. | 22:01 |
| gnarface | not a raw dd of the image | 22:01 |
| _abc_ | Also I turned off swapfs in ascii installed to hdd, does not seem to change anything. | 22:01 |
| gnarface | but a clone of the contents at least | 22:01 |
| gnarface | you should not disable swap | 22:02 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: why | 22:02 |
| _abc_ | It seems to work better with it gone. Faster boot | 22:02 |
| gnarface | if you need it but don't have it, things crash | 22:03 |
| gnarface | until that point you don't notice | 22:03 |
| _abc_ | I don't expect that to be needed. | 22:03 |
| gnarface | it would be safer to just set /proc/sys/vm/swappiness to 0 | 22:04 |
| gnarface | then it will avoid using it unless it does need it | 22:04 |
| golinux | _abc_: So you just want to boot from the line, not install it? | 22:04 |
| _abc_ | I am aware of the various tuning options yes | 22:04 |
| golinux | line > live | 22:04 |
| _abc_ | I want to use the live image with persistence later but with recovery to a snapshot of the persistence image when needed. | 22:05 |
| golinux | Then just dd to a usb stick | 22:05 |
| _abc_ | Kiosk mode. | 22:05 |
| _abc_ | I want it internal. | 22:05 |
| nemo | heh. our FOSS game feedback mechanism just got someone demanding their money back | 22:07 |
| nemo | they are on a version we released in 2013 and an ubuntu from 2013 too - I bet someone sold them a bootable CD | 22:08 |
| gnarface | how rude | 22:08 |
| Wonka | dafuq? | 22:08 |
| nemo | we've had it happen before | 22:08 |
| nemo | at one point we had a tip about the game being free and you not having to pay for it, but decided that was against spirit of FOSS so pulled it from our tips file | 22:08 |
| nemo | his response was a bit uncool tho | 22:08 |
| nemo | "Bonsoir à toute l'équipe de ce jeu merdique! J'aimerais reçevoir un remboursement immédiat sur l'achat de ce jeu" | 22:09 |
| nemo | Ⓐ We didn't sell it to you Ⓑ You're trying to run something from 2013 on your machine, ofc it has problems. Bet it is running at 15fps in software rendering mode | 22:09 |
| nemo | (this is Hedgewars FWIW) | 22:10 |
| Wonka | well, stuff from 2013 could actually run quite fast ... | 22:10 |
| nemo | Wonka: oh, the game itself in theory still runs on cards w/ 512 max texture size - we even got it running on first gen iphone | 22:11 |
| nemo | Wonka: but we don't do well in software emulated gl | 22:11 |
| Wonka | I'm on a 2011 MacBook Pro, that should be supported quite well too ;) | 22:11 |
| nemo | OSX builds are entirely dependent on who is willing to do them | 22:12 |
| nemo | so I think old MBP is desupported, although you could probably get it working yourself | 22:12 |
| nemo | we don't actually have OSX for latest release. ☹ | 22:12 |
| Wonka | I'm running Devuan on it. | 22:13 |
| nemo | ++ | 22:13 |
| Wonka | with, currently, Linux 4.20 | 22:14 |
| Wonka | rEFInd boots that quite nicely in EFI mode | 22:14 |
| nemo | Wonka: my poor boss when Apple went pure composited window manager only. | 22:14 |
| nemo | there were a bunch of oldish macs at the office w/ like 256MB of vRAM or something like that | 22:14 |
| nemo | I should've turned 'em into linux machines | 22:15 |
| nemo | but there were useless as macs after updating | 22:15 |
| gnarface | perfect for linux, and for heating the room! | 22:15 |
| Wonka | my first Linux box had 1MB of VRAM (and 40MB of main RAM) | 22:15 |
| gnarface | i hear they also make good fish tanks | 22:15 |
| nemo | gnarface: in wintertime, all computing is 100% efficient | 22:15 |
| Wonka | gnarface: cat caves | 22:15 |
| nemo | Wonka: you've got me beat there, but I did have a laptop for a long while w/ 96MB of RAM | 22:16 |
| nemo | Wonka: I ran a surprisingly usable XFCE desktop w/ Seamonkey and Abiword | 22:16 |
| Wonka | fluxbox, iirc... | 22:16 |
| nemo | Wonka: was the only gentoo where I used -Os | 22:16 |
| nemo | to try and cut down on ram consumption | 22:17 |
| Wonka | SuSE 4.4 in the beginning | 22:17 |
| Wonka | later Debian | 22:17 |
| nemo | Wonka: I started linux w/ redhat 'cause my roommate was their webmaster at the time | 22:18 |
| Wonka | hmmm... I had a RedHat 7.2 on a different machine inbetween | 22:19 |
| nemo | Wonka: I think I started on RH4 | 22:20 |
| Wonka | SuSE 4.4 with some Linux 2.0.x... later that RedHat 7.2 with Linux 2.4.x... | 22:22 |
| Wonka | left out 2.2.x | 22:22 |
| Wonka | now nearly on 5.0-rc | 22:22 |
| nemo | Wonka: guess we started at roughly same time then | 22:23 |
| Wonka | some time '97, '98 it must have been | 22:23 |
| nemo | ah. ok. I'm slightly ahead then ☺ | 22:24 |
| nemo | '96 | 22:24 |
| Wonka | :) | 22:24 |
| golinux | This is a devuan channel not a redhat or mac one. ;) | 22:24 |
| watchcat | slackware -> debian -> devuan | 22:24 |
| nemo | golinux: or a linux-one-upmanship channel? | 22:24 |
| golinux | Yeah. More suited to #debianfork | 22:25 |
| Wonka | well... gotta go to bed anyway. sleep well! | 22:27 |
| nemo | https://m8y.org/tmp/console_images/ chafa vs catimg for those of you who spend a ton of time in terminal windows like I do. catimg also took 15 minutes to render the "high res" vs a couple of seconds for chafa | 22:27 |
| nemo | Wonka: 'n8 | 22:27 |
| fsmithred | ping _abc_ | 23:21 |
| fsmithred | refracta2usb won't list internal drives - only usb drives. | 23:21 |
| _abc_ | . | 23:21 |
| fsmithred | hi | 23:22 |
| _abc_ | Hi fsmithred wb | 23:22 |
| fsmithred | thanks | 23:22 |
| _abc_ | I'll try to shoehorn it in then? | 23:22 |
| _abc_ | Manually. | 23:22 |
| fsmithred | yeah, that would work. dd would work, too, but then you probably can't make other partitions. | 23:22 |
| _abc_ | Do you think a live hybrid ascii dvd dd'd into a hdd will boot? | 23:22 |
| _abc_ | Oh I did the other partitions thing yes | 23:23 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I've done it | 23:23 |
| _abc_ | fdisk on the dd'd image | 23:23 |
| fsmithred | I think it will only work with the i386 | 23:23 |
| _abc_ | but what I really want is the refracta boot env which permits editing the boot cli of the kernel on the dd'd image | 23:23 |
| _abc_ | It's an i386 ok | 23:23 |
| fsmithred | not sure I understand - you can edit the boot command with grub or syslinux | 23:24 |
| fsmithred | press e or tab, respectively | 23:24 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: not persistently? | 23:24 |
| _abc_ | That I know of. | 23:24 |
| fsmithred | no, just a one-off that way | 23:25 |
| fsmithred | can't edit the isohybrid image | 23:25 |
| _abc_ | I used your multi-boot refracta installer? That allows this. That;s the one I would like to use, but you said it won't do hdd. | 23:26 |
| fsmithred | if you manually do what refracta2usb does, then you can edit the boot menu, but only after you do one of two things... | 23:26 |
| _abc_ | I am aware. | 23:26 |
| fsmithred | either boot a live-CD(USB) | 23:26 |
| _abc_ | I would like to not do all the edit manually. | 23:26 |
| _abc_ | I.e. refracta2usb manual full workflow. | 23:27 |
| fsmithred | or patch the initrd so you can write to the first parttion | 23:27 |
| _abc_ | Use as much as possible from the automation. | 23:27 |
| gnarface | _abc_: i thought about something else about the read-only mountpoint issue - i suddenly recalled that i don't think all filesystems even support that option, and rather rely on the permissions of the top-level directory of the filesystem on that partition itself | 23:27 |
| fsmithred | oh wait, there's one more way | 23:27 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: no | 23:27 |
| fsmithred | boot the live system with the word, persistence in the boot command | 23:27 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: the mount mode has precedence over the permissions | 23:27 |
| fsmithred | but don't tell it to use a persistent volume | 23:27 |
| gnarface | _abc_: i'm telling you that i'm not sure that's true for every filesystem driver | 23:28 |
| fsmithred | and then root will be able to write to the fat32 partition when it's running | 23:28 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: ah, and then do refracta? | 23:28 |
| _abc_ | I think I see what you mean. | 23:28 |
| _abc_ | An isohybrid is always a FAT32? I think not? | 23:28 |
| fsmithred | phone - brb | 23:29 |
| _abc_ | What is that thing called that you made, I am using it on an usb stick. FAT32 holding grub and several devuan/etc images. | 23:29 |
| gnarface | part of it is a fat32 partition, but most of it is not | 23:31 |
| _abc_ | :) | 23:31 |
| fsmithred | if you make a live-usb with refracta2usb, the first partition is fat32 | 23:31 |
| fsmithred | and is read-only unless you do some tricks | 23:31 |
| _abc_ | Yes. But is there a recipe to do that manually without reading refracta2usb source? | 23:32 |
| fsmithred | would be the same if you put it on a hard drive instead of usb | 23:32 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I can help you with that | 23:32 |
| _abc_ | Ok. Will keep this in mind when I get to it. The relevant computer is not in my hands now. | 23:32 |
| fsmithred | or maybe we can modify r2u to see the internal drives | 23:32 |
| fsmithred | probably just make a small change in the hwinfo command that the script uses | 23:33 |
| _abc_ | Oh, another: in a r2u system, after booting into the gui, thunar etc shows the "hidden" drives in the drive volume table side pane. Is there a way to hide them? | 23:33 |
| fsmithred | I don't know | 23:33 |
| _abc_ | Ok. | 23:33 |
| fsmithred | I think that function might be broken anyway - I have my desktop set to show removable drives, and it shows the internal drives, too | 23:34 |
| fsmithred | didn't do that in wheezy | 23:34 |
| _abc_ | There should be a way to mark the drives or to set thunar to ignore the wanted drives | 23:35 |
| fsmithred | yeah, put them in fstab and they won't show up on the desktop or in thunar | 23:35 |
| fsmithred | don't know if there's a way to put something in fstab and tell it to do nothing | 23:35 |
| _abc_ | I tried today to move a hdd installed ascii to etc tmp var home mounted as separate partitions, that worked, but then I tried to make rootfs ro mounted and the scripts ignored my ro option on the options in fstab, mounted rootfs rw | 23:35 |
| _abc_ | I have var etc home in the fstab and thunar showed them. | 23:36 |
| fsmithred | brb | 23:36 |
| fsmithred | back | 23:38 |
| fsmithred | what happens if you remove thunar-volman? | 23:38 |
| fsmithred | (just a guess) | 23:38 |
| fsmithred | you can also try copying the iso to a hard drive (on a linux formatted partition) and boot from grub | 23:41 |
| fsmithred | using the findiso option | 23:42 |
| fsmithred | that'll work with or without persistence | 23:42 |
| _abc_ | Ah. Yes that is one way to try. | 23:44 |
| _abc_ | Removing thunar-volume completely removes volume management. I need to to see usb sticks instered and cds. Eventually. | 23:44 |
| _abc_ | I will look into this deeper. | 23:45 |
| _abc_ | *inserted. | 23:45 |
| _abc_ | I will work on the ideas you gave me now. ext2 fs + grub + iso image with findiso would work for sure. | 23:45 |
| gnarface | i think you just need udisks2 to see usb and cds being inserted | 23:46 |
| gnarface | might require some scripting to check /dev but /dev should update right then at least | 23:46 |
| _abc_ | I really don't know anything about that. I remember good days 20+ years ago with hotplug on slackware and automounter scripts I wrote which did everything without udev nightmares | 23:47 |
| _abc_ | I'll learn. | 23:47 |
| gnarface | hotplug still exists | 23:48 |
| _abc_ | Close to 1AM here and I am dead tired. Am going to move towards the bed and snore a bit soon | 23:48 |
| _abc_ | Sure hotplug exists, it's not used in the usual way anymore | 23:48 |
| gnarface | i don't think anything is stopping you though | 23:49 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: so much is automated now that if you touch one stone in the arch it all comes down | 23:49 |
| gnarface | yes, that's true. the trick is to start at the top | 23:50 |
| _abc_ | The top of an amoeba is... | 23:51 |
| gnarface | i think starting with thunar probably was a good choice | 23:51 |
| gnarface | gui userspace tools in general would be the top of this particular arch | 23:51 |
| _abc_ | Yes. Well I could source build Thunar and then use some tricks to insert a custom filter external script call or such. | 23:52 |
| gnarface | yea, altering it to behave would be an option. i can't help with specifics on that, i've never touched it. | 23:53 |
| gnarface | actually you should ask with their support. maybe this is a solved problem already for people familiar with thunar. | 23:55 |
| _abc_ | I have a doubt. | 23:56 |
| _abc_ | But I'll ask. Ok, moving towards $bed | 23:56 |
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