* gnarface is suddenly having deja-vu about this | 00:01 | |
armin | https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2019-January/041971.html | 18:57 |
---|---|---|
armin | wahahaha | 18:57 |
xrogaan | could this be solved? http://dpaste.com/35GRG2A | 18:58 |
xrogaan | oh, maybe it's due to that mail. | 18:59 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: what does "apt-get upgrade" say about that? | 18:59 |
KatolaZ | aptitute tends to play a bit too smart, and sometimes its predictions might be off... | 19:00 |
KatolaZ | (sorry, I meant "apt-get dist-upgrade") | 19:00 |
xrogaan | upgrade ignores anything that breaks something. | 19:00 |
xrogaan | oh | 19:01 |
KatolaZ | dist-upgrade | 19:01 |
xrogaan | The following packages have been kept back: libsystemd0:i386 | 19:01 |
xrogaan | i386 and x64 versions mismatch | 19:01 |
KatolaZ | ok fine | 19:01 |
KatolaZ | why would you need an i386 version of libsystemd0 at all? | 19:02 |
xrogaan | Paquet : libsystemd0 Version : 232-25+deb9u7 | 19:02 |
xrogaan | Version : 232-25+deb9u8 État: installé (232-25+deb9u7), upgrade available (232-25+deb9u8) | 19:02 |
xrogaan | something something pulse audio | 19:02 |
xrogaan | something something steam | 19:02 |
xrogaan | IDK | 19:02 |
KatolaZ | ok | 19:02 |
KatolaZ | is the mismatch a problem then> | 19:02 |
KatolaZ | ? | 19:02 |
xrogaan | it's why i386 fails, I'll take a look at debian's tracker to see if it's upstream | 19:03 |
gnarface | Steam isn't great at figuring out what it needs | 19:06 |
gnarface | it could be missing more i386 libraries than just that one | 19:07 |
xrogaan | i'm not missing anything | 19:07 |
xrogaan | There is no stretch-security in that "à'é_çtéà"ç_'(è | 19:08 |
gnarface | hmm. there was only once or twice, i think, that somehow a wine package pulled in a i386 version of something i had to remove to make sure it used the amd64 one when it was supposed to | 19:08 |
gnarface | to make sure steam would not prefer the i386 one over the amd64 one | 19:08 |
xrogaan | steam needs sdl i386, which requires pulseaudio, which requires systemd | 19:09 |
xrogaan | Some stuff from steam doesn't work with only 64bits software. It's very annoying. | 19:09 |
gnarface | yea, i know | 19:09 |
gnarface | 90% of the time 80% of it works | 19:10 |
xrogaan | I can't find the build log thing for debian | 19:10 |
gnarface | for Steam? | 19:10 |
gnarface | i don't think there would be one | 19:10 |
gnarface | oh you're talking about something else | 19:10 |
gnarface | what build log thing? | 19:10 |
xrogaan | You're not following. | 19:12 |
xrogaan | <xrogaan> could this be solved? http://dpaste.com/35GRG2A | 19:12 |
xrogaan | i386 version mismatch with x64 | 19:12 |
xrogaan | so, maybe it's being held upstream | 19:13 |
gnarface | oh | 19:14 |
gnarface | i didn't read your paste. those are NOT the same versions | 19:15 |
gnarface | it's complaining about a version issue | 19:15 |
xrogaan | I KNOW | 19:15 |
xrogaan | Maybe devuan's pipeline broke or something, or maybe debian's maintainer just gave up. | 19:16 |
gnarface | well, debu8 is oldstable and debu7 is ... deprecated | 19:16 |
gnarface | what version of devuan are you running again? | 19:16 |
xrogaan | ascii, the stable one? | 19:16 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: we are not forking libsystemd0 | 19:16 |
xrogaan | I don't know where to see if debian's packages are proper. | 19:17 |
KatolaZ | those packages come straight from Debian | 19:17 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: tracker.debian.org | 19:17 |
xrogaan | yeah, I get nothing. | 19:17 |
gnarface | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=libsystemd&release=ascii | 19:17 |
gnarface | xrogaan: check out the versions in this search... it looks like there may be evidence of distro or version-mixing in yours... | 19:18 |
KatolaZ | gnarface: that won't tell much | 19:18 |
KatolaZ | since pkginfo is currently based on amd64 only | 19:19 |
KatolaZ | :\ | 19:19 |
xrogaan | gnarface: are you high? | 19:19 |
gnarface | well, i note that his paste says it wants the version from ascii-security, but it's trying to install a version that isn't there | 19:19 |
gnarface | xrogaan: not yet | 19:19 |
gnarface | xrogaan: are you? | 19:19 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: there is no reason to treat like that somebody who is trying to help you, mate... | 19:19 |
gnarface | 232-25+deb9u8 < where is it getting this from? | 19:19 |
KatolaZ | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/systemd | 19:19 |
xrogaan | What's the difference between "[ascii-security] libsystemd0-232-25+deb9u7" and my "232-25+deb9u7" ? | 19:19 |
gnarface | some security patches | 19:20 |
xrogaan | it's the i386 version, not the one listed in the devuan tracker thing. | 19:20 |
gnarface | well i guess they might not be the same but they usually are... | 19:20 |
gnarface | usually version discrepancies only happen with the ARM stuff | 19:20 |
xrogaan | the way it is, x64 is supposed to be debu8 but it isn't. I want to know why. | 19:21 |
xrogaan | and this isn't helping: https://packages.debian.org/source/stable/updates/systemd | 19:22 |
gnarface | as far as i can tell from this though, it's NOT supposed to be debu8... that's what i meant by evidence of distro/version mixing | 19:22 |
xrogaan | smells like somebody fucked up somewhere. | 19:22 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: again | 19:22 |
KatolaZ | :\ | 19:22 |
xrogaan | Dude, it is supposed to be debu8 | 19:22 |
xrogaan | > Package: libsystemd0 (232-25+deb9u8) [security] | 19:23 |
KatolaZ | dude, we are trying to help | 19:23 |
KatolaZ | can you see it? | 19:23 |
KatolaZ | o_O | 19:23 |
gnarface | hmm. well it's true that packages.debian.org does list 232-25+deb9u8 for libsystemd and libsystemd-dev... and that's the one in stretch-security | 19:23 |
xrogaan | and, well, look: security.debian.org/debian-security/pool/updates/main/s/systemd/libsystemd0_232-25+deb9u8_amd64.deb | 19:24 |
gnarface | it's not a different version on any architecture though | 19:24 |
xrogaan | surprise, it exists. | 19:24 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: which mirror are you using? | 19:24 |
KatolaZ | because the package is in the repo | 19:24 |
KatolaZ | is in ascii-security | 19:24 |
KatolaZ | in Devuan, I mean | 19:24 |
KatolaZ | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.xz <- xrogaan | 19:25 |
KatolaZ | it's there | 19:25 |
xrogaan | I should have that> deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ ascii-security main non-free contrib | 19:25 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: which mirror are you using? | 19:25 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: silly question: apt-get update? | 19:25 |
xrogaan | yes, update doesn't change | 19:26 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: apt-cache policy libsystemd0 | 19:26 |
xrogaan | I don't know *which* mirror I'm using. It's the round robin. | 19:26 |
KatolaZ | (please) | 19:26 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: all the mirrors are updated | 19:26 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: apt-cache policy libsystemd0 | 19:27 |
xrogaan | http://dpaste.com/11QH3N0 | 19:27 |
KatolaZ | that is simply not possible | 19:27 |
KatolaZ | since the package is in ascii-security | 19:27 |
xrogaan | ascii-security/main ?! | 19:28 |
KatolaZ | Package: libsystemd0 | 19:28 |
KatolaZ | Version: 232-25+deb9u8 | 19:28 |
KatolaZ | Installed-Size: 688 | 19:28 |
KatolaZ | Maintainer: Debian systemd Maintainers <pkg-systemd-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org> | 19:28 |
KatolaZ | look at the link I posted above | 19:28 |
gnarface | hmm. this paste mentions backports...http://dpaste.com/11QH3N0 | 19:28 |
KatolaZ | gnarface: it's not in backports | 19:28 |
KatolaZ | it's in ascii-security | 19:29 |
KatolaZ | the snippet I pasted comes from the Packages.xz in ascii-security | 19:29 |
gnarface | KatolaZ: there is a version in backports though too... if he mixed in some backports versions of stuff, theoretically they could be causing this indirectly, no? | 19:29 |
KatolaZ | and that file is the same across all the mirrors behind deb.devuan.org | 19:29 |
xrogaan | KatolaZ: I may be hitting a borked mirror, no clue which. | 19:29 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: that's not possible | 19:29 |
xrogaan | I don't know how to know. | 19:29 |
KatolaZ | I know | 19:29 |
KatolaZ | all the mirrors are updated | 19:29 |
KatolaZ | and synced | 19:29 |
KatolaZ | just checked again | 19:30 |
KatolaZ | gnarface: that's a good point | 19:30 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: maybe you got the package from backports? | 19:30 |
xrogaan | which one? | 19:30 |
KatolaZ | the one you have currently installed... | 19:30 |
gnarface | some of them, hard to say | 19:30 |
gnarface | dpkg -l |grep bpo | 19:31 |
KatolaZ | libsystemd0....deb9u7 | 19:31 |
gnarface | ? | 19:31 |
xrogaan | no | 19:31 |
KatolaZ | but again, that's not installed according to the paste | 19:31 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: the package is there | 19:31 |
etech3 | doing a test on a 64 bit base install only | 19:31 |
etech3 | can /etc/systemd be removed? | 19:31 |
KatolaZ | etech3: why should you? o_O | 19:32 |
etech3 | clean machine | 19:32 |
KatolaZ | -_- | 19:32 |
KatolaZ | you can only fear what you don't understand... | 19:32 |
gnarface | it might break something obscure. i forget what, but i removed it once and the lack of some symlink choked some video game for some reason... i forget the details | 19:32 |
golinux | armin: Great find! https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2019-January/041971.html | 19:33 |
xrogaan | my installed backports packages: http://sprunge.us/iWnh5J | 19:33 |
xrogaan | golinux: was posted here 40 minutes ago | 19:33 |
gnarface | hostile, accusatory, not-detail-oriented, AND rotating pastebin links? nah, i'm out. | 19:34 |
xrogaan | how do I remove the local list package cache? | 19:34 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: apt-get install libsystemd0=232-25+deb9u8 | 19:34 |
golinux | xrogaan: Of course. Repeated for truth | 19:34 |
xrogaan | gnarface: I use dpaste manually, sprunge is when I use pastebinit. | 19:35 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: ^^^ | 19:35 |
KatolaZ | golinux: I don't see how that is a good or a bad news at all | 19:36 |
xrogaan | KatolaZ: it obviously do not work :P | 19:37 |
golinux | <KatolaZ> since pkginfo is currently based on amd64 only. WTF! | 19:37 |
KatolaZ | golinux: feel free to amend that :P | 19:38 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: you obviously know better, so you probably don't need help | 19:39 |
KatolaZ | the package is there | 19:39 |
xrogaan | would removing /var/cache/apt/pkgcache.bin force a proper "update"? | 19:39 |
KatolaZ | there might be something wrong in your config | 19:39 |
KatolaZ | e.g. a pin | 19:39 |
KatolaZ | again, the package is *there* in the repo | 19:39 |
KatolaZ | it should appear in apt-cache policy | 19:39 |
KatolaZ | right after an apt-get update | 19:40 |
KatolaZ | if it doesn't, then you have a pin somewhere | 19:40 |
xrogaan | there is a /etc/apt/preferences.d/avoid-systemd | 19:40 |
xrogaan | only for Package: systemd-sysv | 19:40 |
KatolaZ | bbl | 19:40 |
xrogaan | I know it's in the repo, we established that. | 19:42 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: hold on | 19:42 |
KatolaZ | the amd64 version is deb8u7 | 19:42 |
KatolaZ | the i386 version is deb9u8 | 19:43 |
KatolaZ | the amd64 version is deb9u7 | 19:43 |
xrogaan | apt-mark showhold returns nothing | 19:43 |
KatolaZ | mmmhhh | 19:43 |
xrogaan | KatolaZ: yes, that's what I have. | 19:43 |
xrogaan | https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/libsystemd0/download < the repo url finishes with `debian-security stretch/updates main' | 19:44 |
KatolaZ | but it's the same in Debian | 19:44 |
xrogaan | nothing to do with devuan, right? It's not as simple as a misconfigured source.list? | 19:45 |
xrogaan | I need to go to bed soon :/ | 19:45 |
KatolaZ | sleep tight | 19:46 |
gnarface | xrogaan: not that you deserve the answer, but the fact of the matter is that while this could have been caused upstream, the vast majority of cases like this come from mixing distros or mixing repo versions. if you're sure you never did, but you still used backports - think again. | 19:47 |
xrogaan | who cares about systemd anyway ( ̄へ ̄) | 19:47 |
gnarface | if you trace carefully all the dependencies linked to those backports you might be able to figure out exactly where the block is, but it might also be easier to just remove them all so you can do a clean update && upgrade | 19:48 |
KatolaZ | xrogaan: it could also be a temporary glitch on the debian cdn side | 19:49 |
KatolaZ | I mean, some of the security mirrors might not be yet updated | 19:49 |
KatolaZ | this could happen | 19:50 |
KatolaZ | and would be solved by waiting a few hours more, normally | 19:50 |
xrogaan | That's what I thought too, I noticed this issue yesterday. | 19:52 |
xrogaan | It's not critical anyway. | 19:53 |
xrogaan | 'night and thanks | 19:53 |
armin | golinux: made my day actually :) | 20:11 |
etech3 | doing a test on a 64 bit base install only | 21:38 |
etech3 | can upstart be removed? | 21:39 |
nemo | huh... I don't know much about devuan's package management, but seems like that would complicate packaging services? | 21:40 |
etech3 | just trying to keep a clean machine | 21:41 |
nemo | etech3: although, wouldn't surprise if everything still uses init.d for compatibility/least surprise | 21:41 |
nemo | etech3: I guess without knowing the decisions devuan packagers made, if everything in /etc/init is also in /etc/init.d you're probably fine... | 21:42 |
nemo | just a guess tho | 21:42 |
nemo | also would probably have to make sure startup proceeded normally | 21:42 |
etech3 | may do a remove of upstart and see what happens | 21:42 |
nemo | heh | 21:43 |
nemo | TIAS | 21:43 |
etech3 | test machine | 21:43 |
nemo | maybe use a vm ☺ | 21:43 |
nemo | ah | 21:43 |
nemo | etech3: might want to try installing some services after removing it | 21:43 |
nemo | apache etc | 21:43 |
etech3 | good idea | 21:43 |
nemo | etech3: I'd suspect if you want hardcore customisability you'd be better off on gentoo rather than devuan | 21:45 |
nemo | etech3: devuan is still debian and has favoured stability and standard environments for a long time | 21:45 |
* nemo uses both personally | 21:45 | |
nemo | etech3: every time I've tried to make significant overrides to debian package list it's always ended up in tears | 21:45 |
nemo | unless some fork like devuan is doing the hard work for me ☺ | 21:46 |
etech3 | gonna try and report | 21:46 |
etech3 | if it breaks I get both halves | 21:47 |
etech3 | HEY no toast!!! | 21:56 |
etech3 | remove upstart crud and installed apache2 reboot no problem | 21:56 |
etech3 | so far | 21:56 |
etech3 | gonna add to my install checklist if it pands out | 21:57 |
etech3 | pans | 21:57 |
sixwheeledbeast^ | upstart? | 21:57 |
etech3 | yep | 21:57 |
etech3 | base install only for headless machine | 21:58 |
sixwheeledbeast^ | I don't understand why it would be included if your not using it. | 22:00 |
etech3 | try updatedb ; locate upstart | 22:00 |
* gnarface doesn't have it here either | 22:03 | |
etech3 | I have a list of extra tools and trying to find which one may pull it | 22:05 |
gnarface | i'm curious now too | 22:05 |
gnarface | it's never been the default init in debian. it was in ubuntu though for a while i think... | 22:06 |
etech3 | started with looking at refracta but that is not installed yet | 22:06 |
gnarface | use any PPAs? | 22:06 |
gnarface | 3rd party repos? | 22:06 |
etech3 | no | 22:06 |
gnarface | hmmm | 22:06 |
etech3 | gonna redo the install and test some more | 22:09 |
sixwheeledbeast^ | I liked Upstart as an init. It's an Ubuntu thing, it's no longer available in the latest Ubuntu or Debian version repos AFAIK. | 22:10 |
nemo | gnarface: oh? I'd heard that when debian when systemd, the vote was upstart vs systemd - I kinda assumed you guys went upstart | 22:10 |
nemo | I have a bunch of stuff in /etc/init on this clean devuan install | 22:10 |
gnarface | nemo: no, devuan stayed with sysvinit, which predates both of them | 22:11 |
gnarface | (was the default in debian wheezy and earlier) | 22:11 |
nemo | $ ls /etc/init | paste -sd'|' | 22:11 |
nemo | anacron.conf|irqbalance.conf|networking.conf|network-interface.conf|network-interface-container.conf|network-interface-security.conf|slim.conf|ssh.conf|startpar-bridge.conf|usb-modeswitch-upstart.conf | 22:11 |
nemo | guess some packages just install stuff there just-in-case... | 22:11 |
nemo | or maybe the init.d scripts read those configs? *shrug* I thought /etc/init was an upstart thing tho | 22:12 |
gnarface | nemo: there might be some overlap between sysvinit and upstart... i seem to recall someone complaining about maybe a compatibility layer of scripts shared between the two? | 22:12 |
_abc_ | Hi fsmithred. Is this mostly relevant to making things like refracta2usb manually? The boot loader part, at least? https://www.ab9il.net/linux/grub2-iso-booting.html | 22:12 |
nemo | gnarface: oh for sure there's overlap. upstart kinda was an augmentation of sysvinit. | 22:12 |
sixwheeledbeast^ | I imagine ChromeOS is still using Upstart? but Canconial dropped it to follow Debian. | 22:13 |
nemo | gnarface: one nice thing about it. progressive enhancement and things still working in existing locations. I'm really surprised debian went w/ systemd | 22:13 |
nemo | sixwheeledbeast^: chromeos is gentoo, so who knows. gentoo can do either one. | 22:13 |
nemo | sixwheeledbeast^: you'd think systemd would appeal to google's android-y soul | 22:13 |
_abc_ | nemo: why surprised? debian has become a clusterf* supplying ubuntu's every need | 22:13 |
gnarface | nemo: you can guarantee money slid under the table and heads rolled to make it happen | 22:13 |
etech3 | That is what I'm thinking | 22:14 |
nemo | in that case redhat was probably supplying a good bit of the cash/pressure ☺ | 22:14 |
gnarface | they do have motive and opportunity... | 22:14 |
nemo | don't think ubuntu had as much invested | 22:14 |
_abc_ | No need for real cash. Just stopped saying "we'll destroy you" | 22:14 |
gnarface | well, redhat can donate monetarily significant development man-hours too | 22:14 |
gnarface | that can pass for money in an open source context | 22:15 |
_abc_ | Now it's "resistance is futile, you will be poetteringed" | 22:15 |
_abc_ | I would very much like rh not to donate any more poisoned apples | 22:15 |
gnarface | i find myself just wondering how anyone could really be surprised RedHat is evil | 22:15 |
_abc_ | Which means almost all they did. There's a long list and about 3 things in it are valuable for everyone, not just themselves and their own job security. | 22:15 |
etech3 | rh=ibm | 22:16 |
gnarface | indeed. | 22:16 |
_abc_ | https://community.redhat.com/software/#operating-system read this and weep. Identify the 5 things they made which are actually nice and do not break anything | 22:17 |
gnarface | hehe, i used to like ntsysv | 22:17 |
gnarface | then i found out it's just symlinks | 22:17 |
_abc_ | Apropos does anyone know anybody who actually uses WIMAX? It's a huuuge part of the kernel build and I've yet to see it used anywhere, once. | 22:18 |
sixwheeledbeast^ | Those are contributions lists not complete projects | 22:20 |
Criggie | Never - its more of a long-haul wireless ethernet right ? | 22:20 |
gnarface | _abc_: i don't know. 802.16 has been around for a while and i was really anxious to see ISPs start using it for a long time, but one by one everyone i heard talking about it just vanished, closed up shop, or got bought out by someone bigger. no deployments so far ever, that i've heard of personally. :( | 22:20 |
nemo | _abc_: well in all fairness, the first thing they made that was actually nice was rpm | 22:21 |
gnarface | Criggie: yea it's supposed to have a range of 30 miles without satellite | 22:21 |
nemo | _abc_: prior to that, it was kind of a PITA on linux | 22:21 |
nemo | _abc_: even if I do have a softspot for slack/gentoo style build-your-own | 22:22 |
nemo | _abc_: getting beyond that to 5 though? hm... | 22:22 |
gnarface | Criggie: (it would evaporate the primary monopoly foundations in huge swaths of the country here for cellular and landlines so it's not hard to imagine why nobody has managed to make it to market with one) | 22:23 |
sixwheeledbeast^ | WIMAX will have to die in the future over 4 and 5G mobile. | 22:23 |
nemo | gnarface: SpaceX is kinda targetting that no? | 22:24 |
gnarface | we should probably be having this whole conversation in #debianfork | 22:24 |
gnarface | nemo: no idea actually | 22:24 |
nemo | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation) | 22:24 |
nemo | gnarface: their goal is global broadband | 22:24 |
gnarface | nemo: oh, yea, but that's not 802.16 i don't think. i think that's just basically regular old satellite internet. | 22:25 |
_abc_ | Using 802.16 ? SpaceX? | 22:25 |
gnarface | we have regular satellite internet but mostly just small players that only serve rural areas | 22:26 |
_abc_ | Because frankly I am fed up editing kernel configs and rebuilding. WIMAX stack is all modules and hefty. | 22:26 |
_abc_ | gnarface: but not WIMAX. | 22:26 |
gnarface | _abc_: yea, you don't need WIMAX | 22:26 |
gnarface | you can leave that out of your build | 22:26 |
gnarface | you can probably leave out the 10GB ethernet drivers too :-p | 22:26 |
_abc_ | Not really. | 22:27 |
_abc_ | I sometimes need that | 22:27 |
_abc_ | Rarely | 22:27 |
gnarface | really? lucky you | 22:27 |
_abc_ | Not my gear, testing. | 22:27 |
_abc_ | And it's really a pain to get everything together to test a unit. | 22:27 |
_abc_ | GBICs etc | 22:27 |
_abc_ | It's certainly not lucky or pleasant or anyhting. | 22:28 |
gnarface | well, that's probably related to the reason why the kernel has drivers for everything, even stuff almost nobody uses | 22:28 |
_abc_ | 10GB ethernet on a modest laptop using external adapter is sort of like having a train carriage attached to motorbike | 22:28 |
gnarface | heh, i bet | 22:28 |
Criggie | gnarface: 5G has a range of fuckall, so its for dense urban only. | 22:30 |
nemo | gnarface: traditional satellite internet uses high flying geosync satellites and is very high latency | 22:30 |
gnarface | yea, i know. to both of those statements | 22:31 |
nemo | gnarface: the spacex constellation is closer to the orion satellite phone, only with tons more satellites | 22:31 |
nemo | 'k | 22:31 |
nemo | gnarface: just saying you'd get a lot better performance than "regular old satellite internet" | 22:31 |
nemo | downside is the satellites have to be constantly replaced | 22:31 |
gnarface | oh, i see. but 802.16 could have really helped a lot of last-mile coverage at lower latency. and it's been basically sitting on the shelf for a conspicuous amount of time... | 22:31 |
gnarface | i doubt even their fancy new satellites could improve on it | 22:32 |
nemo | "However, SpaceX ultimately decided to keep the satellites at a relatively low 550 kilometers (340 mi), due to concerns about the space environment." | 22:32 |
nemo | gnarface: only 550km each way, and probably fewer router hops | 22:32 |
Criggie | geometry says 550 km if its right overhead | 22:33 |
Criggie | how many satellites are there ? | 22:33 |
nemo | Criggie: a LOT ☺ | 22:33 |
DonkeyHotei | in 2009 i picked up a municipal 802.16 signal in downtown san antonio, but i didn't use it because i already had ev-do service i already paid for | 22:33 |
DonkeyHotei | i mean 2010, sorry | 22:33 |
nemo | Criggie: "Initial plans as of January 2015 were for the constellation to be made up of approximately 4000 cross-linked[37] satellites" | 22:33 |
Criggie | mmm ok if it was ~20 then you'd have low prob of a sat overhead, but if its 200 there's a lot more chance | 22:33 |
nemo | sooo 1100km means speed of light to/from satellite would be 4ms of latency | 22:35 |
nemo | plus whatever relaying would be needed | 22:35 |
Criggie | I got more than that between home and my upstream gateway | 22:38 |
nemo | Criggie: by comparison traditional satellite internet is more like 250ms of latency | 22:39 |
gnarface | well i'll be impressed if it works that well | 22:39 |
gnarface | i'm not buying 4ms until i see it with my own eyes | 22:39 |
nemo | gnarface: I have no idea if spacex is claiming 4ms - after all there's the relaying. but they have a massive advantage over "regular old" ☺ | 22:40 |
gnarface | ~250-300ms is more along the lines of what i'd expect from a satellite | 22:40 |
nemo | gnarface: yeah. but geosync is soooo much further away. these satellites are basically flying through the earth's atmosphere, that's why they need to be constantly replaced | 22:40 |
gnarface | hmm. yea, could work i guess. in theory | 22:40 |
gnarface | i figured they'd have to be low enough to be aircraft actually though. like those balloon things Google (was it Google?) wanted to make | 22:41 |
gnarface | but i am not a rocket scientist | 22:42 |
Criggie | Loon | 22:42 |
gnarface | yea, that's the one, Project Loon | 22:42 |
gnarface | they were just gonna make some dirigible drones and put wifi repeaters in them | 22:42 |
gnarface | i think i heard they're actually doing it somewhere, too... | 22:43 |
gnarface | not around here though | 22:43 |
nemo | gnarface: I got the feeling google's wifi projects were just there to put pressure on existing network providers | 23:00 |
nemo | gnarface: they sure didn't put much effort into them | 23:00 |
nemo | spacex has no such motivations, at least at present | 23:00 |
nemo | gnarface: kinda reminds me of what google did to mozilla with initial webm/ogg | 23:01 |
gnarface | you might be right. google fiber seemed to evaporate pretty quickly too | 23:01 |
nemo | negotiate better mp4 licensing for youtube | 23:01 |
nemo | thankfully AV1 seems to finally be getting some traction | 23:01 |
nemo | gnarface: worst one could say about the spacex project is that it might be similar to other musk things. just a way to get a bit more investor capital | 23:02 |
se7en | I came here last month speaking about issues with my /usr directory filling up to fast. The temporary solution was to simpily uninstal supertuxkart | 23:56 |
se7en | Now it's filled up again | 23:56 |
Springlebutt | hi. i just installed ascii from dvd iso + network mirror over ethernet connection. now i need to get my tp-link n150 wireless dongle (TL-WN722N) working. after some googling i enabled non-free repo and installed firmware-atheros package. but the device still does not work. this is a popular wifi interface im sure devuan people use it. any advice thanks | 23:57 |
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