* Xenguy notes an update for libsystemd0 ... | 00:35 | |
Jjp137 | yep just installed it an hour or so ago... | 00:37 |
---|---|---|
cd | I don't know if this is a Devuan issue, but I typically use Debian in a QEMU VM with QEMU's port forwarding which enables me to use SSH to the VM from my host system. But for some reason despite using identical /etc/ssh config files and ~/.ssh/authorized_keys with the same checksums between both the Debian and Devuan VM, I can't get an SSH connection to the Devuan system. | 00:40 |
cd | Is there something particular with Devuan that could cause a connection to not be established? | 00:40 |
debdog | short answer: no | 00:44 |
debdog | does ssh spit out an error message? | 00:45 |
debdog | what about firewall? | 00:45 |
cd | sftp will quickly return a connection refused error, but | 00:45 |
debdog | can youping it? | 00:45 |
cd | normal ssh just nothing happens | 00:45 |
cd | nmap on 0.0.0.0 with the port I have forwarded via QEMU for ssh 22 says it's open | 00:48 |
debdog | ssh in as root or ordinary user? | 00:49 |
cd | ordinary user | 00:49 |
debdog | hmm | 00:49 |
cd | I'm using the same entry in .ssh/config on my host system that I use on both the Debian and Devuan VM. | 00:50 |
cd | They're both configured the same, using the same key | 00:50 |
debdog | there might be issues with the certificate thingies. | 00:52 |
cd | On the VM? | 00:52 |
debdog | on devuan. not certain whether debian has theses probs, too | 00:53 |
debdog | gnutls is the keyword here | 00:55 |
debdog | can you try with just a password? if it isn't too much a hassle | 00:55 |
cd | I'll try | 00:56 |
* debdog has issues with git clone https:... because of this. while git clone git:... works well | 00:57 | |
cd | debdog: I don't think it's working with password auth either. | 01:05 |
cd | Could it be some issue where it's wanting IPv6 support as well even though the host only has IPv4? | 01:06 |
debdog | hmm, ok then. | 01:06 |
cd | It's listening for SSH on IPv6 as well on the Devuan VM | 01:06 |
debdog | sorry, that's the only thing I can think of which might be different to debian | 01:07 |
g4570n | !ping | 03:26 |
infobot | ~pong | 03:26 |
systemdlete | gnarface: Thanks; forgot about that usb legacy suppport. Just checked and it is enabled. | 03:39 |
systemdlete | finally heard back from MSI support. They could not explain why there is a mismatch of version numbers between installed BIOS's and those available for upgrade on ther site. The respondent only said to match by date. So, after hunting around the BIOS (man, they do make this more difficult than necessary!), I found the date, which was 042813. That matches the release date for what they call version "H.F" available for | 03:42 |
systemdlete | updating the BIOS. There are 2 newer versions, but the description of the changes made don't sound like they would help me. I might upgrade the BIOS anyway just to avoid future issues. | 03:42 |
systemdlete | I've never seen a MB where version numbers were so disjoint and confusing. OK, matching by date does tie them together, but other mfrs manage to provide plain old version numbers across the installed and support site versions. | 03:43 |
systemdlete | I've done BIOS updates on MBs and other devices without any confusion or trouble, aside from the usual nonsense back in the day when an update didn't complete or hung... But understanding which version to update to was never confusing to me. | 03:44 |
gnarface | seems suspicious to me | 03:45 |
systemdlete | This surprises me. The board itself is not bad at all -- at least aside from this USB issue, and I'm not really 100% certain it is a USB hardware problem on the board. I've been trying to find a similar but different distro to install in another partition and compare behavior. | 03:45 |
gnarface | well the people who make the website aren't the same people who make the motherboard | 03:46 |
systemdlete | (I agree suspicious maybe, but I'd like to try comparing distro behaviors on same hardware first) | 03:46 |
systemdlete | do you think they ever talk to each other? Or maybe meet, say, once a year? | 03:46 |
gnarface | i'd be surprised if they're even in the same country | 03:46 |
gnarface | or the same parts of the company | 03:47 |
systemdlete | maybe on one of those corporate-sponsored retreats where they catch their coworkers while falling backwards? | 03:47 |
systemdlete | or speak the same language? | 03:47 |
gnarface | more like speak parts of some of the same languages, badly | 03:48 |
gnarface | but you're right that this seems to not be a problem for other vendors so i suspect schadenfreude | 03:48 |
systemdlete | I doubt it could be related to software engineers' general lack of ability to communicate with other members of the same species. That never happens. | 03:50 |
gnarface | heh | 03:51 |
systemdlete | what a dumb thought! | 03:51 |
systemdlete | I mean, in the years i worked in I.T. I never experienced it even one time. | 03:52 |
systemdlete | Everyone got along perfectly. | 03:52 |
systemdlete | There was never any competition or misunderstandings. | 03:52 |
systemdlete | And they never called a customer, even one with a legitinmate problem with our products, a complete ***** | 03:53 |
systemdlete | We just told them to RTFM and all was well throughout the land. | 03:53 |
systemdlete | anyway. I might upgrade the BIOS anyway just to head off other issues not related to this. | 03:53 |
gnarface | systemdlete: has google really returned nothing at all about this showing up for anyone else before on any linux distro? | 04:00 |
gnarface | and did you ever check the logs for any error messages when the mouse goes out? | 04:02 |
gnarface | you really seemed to omit quite a lot of the tests i asked about | 04:02 |
gnarface | that one specifically might be important | 04:03 |
gnarface | check /var/log/messages, i guess or dmesg... maybe /var/log/daemon.log too... check all the logs | 04:03 |
gnarface | check for anything that looks like it changes when the mouse goes out | 04:04 |
gnarface | so far i seriously can't be sure whether it's a hardware or software issue | 04:04 |
xrogaan | KatolaZ: Took 2-3 days, but debian finally solved their issues with libsystemd. | 12:36 |
buZz | by removal? | 12:37 |
amesser | lol | 12:42 |
djph | buZz: you're today's hero | 13:07 |
HumanG33k | My debian testing as never been as slow as now | 14:10 |
HumanG33k | but i think it’s because i use FF and thunderbird … | 14:11 |
HumanG33k | Question related to devuan stable, why when my users use shutdown button it only close the session ? | 14:12 |
HumanG33k | default install from last iso | 14:12 |
nemo | that's kinda broad. but I assume that's XFCE | 14:12 |
nemo | HumanG33k: the options in the XFCE logout menu are configurable | 14:13 |
nemo | HumanG33k: they should have more than one choice unless the others are disabled | 14:13 |
nemo | right click on it | 14:14 |
nemo | but I haven't switched back to XFCE yet, so don't know more | 14:14 |
KatolaZ | HumanG33k: you should not have that problem, TBH | 14:14 |
KatolaZ | just be sure you have consolekit installed | 14:14 |
HumanG33k | is it not provide by default install ? | 14:16 |
HumanG33k | or maybe it is provide by the option "command line tools options" (or similar) in the installer | 14:18 |
HumanG33k | i install 2 devuan and have the trouble on both | 14:19 |
KatolaZ | no HumanG33k | 14:19 |
KatolaZ | it should be on the default install | 14:19 |
HumanG33k | and the default dhcp discover is loooooooonnnnnnnng at boot | 14:20 |
HumanG33k | it’s just an idea but it’s can be cool to have somewhere a webpage with pckge with systemd dependency in debian in order to easely report issues on their bug tracker, a least for testing on sid ? | 14:25 |
nemo | anyone have any hardware suggestions? building a new system | 17:08 |
nemo | was thinking AMD just to cut down on meltdown impact a bit, and just 'cause they seem just slightly less skeezy than intel | 17:09 |
r3boot | nemo: meltdown-like issues are valid for all CPU's that do pipelining, including AMD | 17:15 |
nemo | spectre | 17:16 |
r3boot | yep, same story | 17:16 |
r3boot | if you want to protect yourself for that, right now, at this moment, it's best to use a CPU that doesnt do that, like a VAX, or maybe a 68k | 17:16 |
nemo | heh | 17:16 |
r3boot | (which is ofcourse not realistic) | 17:17 |
nemo | r3boot: point is. *apparently* AMD was a bit more cautious on its verification, so supposedly had fewer meltdown (not spectre) vulnerabilities | 17:17 |
nemo | therefore takes less of a processor hit | 17:17 |
r3boot | you know what they say about assumptions right? :) | 17:17 |
nemo | heh | 17:17 |
r3boot | Iig, spectre/meltdown are *very* hard to solve, unless the hardware architecture of the CPU's change | 17:18 |
nemo | r3boot: point is the patches impact Intel disproportionately for now | 17:18 |
r3boot | and pipelining is needed to make cpu's fast | 17:18 |
nemo | r3boot: simply because (speaking of assumptions) AMD made fewer | 17:18 |
r3boot | If amd would apply similar patches, they would also face a slowdown, it's as simple as that | 17:18 |
r3boot | but, expect a slowdown of 10~30% depending on your workload | 17:19 |
r3boot | (if you apply all patches) | 17:19 |
nemo | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltdown_(security_vulnerability)#Affected_hardware | 17:19 |
r3boot | Note, no independent researchers confirmed that ;) This could just as well be AMD protecting their business / seeing an opportunity to seize on the intel problems | 17:20 |
nemo | "Researchers have indicated that the Meltdown vulnerability is exclusive to Intel processors" | 17:20 |
nemo | r3boot: again.. it's not certain, nothing is | 17:20 |
nemo | but right now, with deployed patches, AMD is an advantage | 17:21 |
nemo | any costs they had in their architecture was already paid up front | 17:21 |
nemo | therefore the performance is more "realistic" | 17:21 |
r3boot | I'm just saying it's not clear cut, since you need to believe the vendor on their blue eyes that they patched | 17:21 |
nemo | sure. that's obvious | 17:21 |
KatolaZ | nemo: it looks like AMD still need a but more power | 17:21 |
KatolaZ | but less than 15 year ago | 17:21 |
KatolaZ | (w.r.t. Intel equivalent) | 17:21 |
nemo | but with what the distros are pushing out right now, there is no AMD impact | 17:21 |
nemo | KatolaZ: yeah, so you take AMD vs Intel perf, and then subtract the meltdown patch mitigation slowdown | 17:22 |
nemo | which AT PRESENT is intel only 😉 | 17:22 |
r3boot | (and alpha, and itanium, but you dont hear a lot about that :P) | 17:22 |
KatolaZ | nemo: I buy hardware very rarely | 17:22 |
r3boot | but, w/e | 17:22 |
nemo | r3boot: yeah no intention of buying that so who cares ☺ | 17:23 |
KatolaZ | actually, arm is not bad at all as an arch | 17:23 |
nemo | which is why most people ignore it | 17:23 |
golinux | Human_G33k: A list like this? https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/libsystemd.txt | 17:23 |
nemo | KatolaZ: trouble w/ arm unfortunately is as a desktop it is a real PITA | 17:23 |
nemo | KatolaZ: Wine for example. or virtualisation | 17:23 |
KatolaZ | well, depends on the desktop ;) | 17:23 |
nemo | KatolaZ: I do have a number of ARM linux machines tho | 17:23 |
KatolaZ | there are arm processosr which support virtualization | 17:24 |
r3boot | nemo: you'd be surprised as to how many mission-critical applications are still running on those cpu's ;) | 17:24 |
KatolaZ | not the 30$ ones, though | 17:24 |
nemo | r3boot: no impact on *my* buying decisions anyway ☺ | 17:24 |
r3boot | ahja | 17:24 |
r3boot | nobody except you cares about that as well ;+ | 17:24 |
nemo | r3boot: for those, I can basically, at present say, for any machine I'm going to buy, meltdown is intel only patch performance impact | 17:24 |
nemo | r3boot: I was addressing your " but you dont hear a lot about that :P" | 17:25 |
nemo | 'cause a lot of others are in 'sact same boat | 17:25 |
nemo | i.e. consumers | 17:25 |
nemo | r3boot: for most of us, meltdown is intel-exclusive | 17:25 |
KatolaZ | nemo: actually it seems like meltdown/spectre-like mitigations will probably affect larger sections of the kernel anyway | 17:25 |
KatolaZ | meaning that they will result in rewrites over extensive parts of the kernel | 17:25 |
nemo | KatolaZ: sure sure. I was just drawing distinction between meltdown and spectre, since they really are different beasts | 17:26 |
KatolaZ | and that's for all the archs | 17:26 |
nemo | KatolaZ: It almost seems the push to hyphenate them is a heavily intel driven exercise, given they cut (a few) more corners | 17:26 |
nemo | but anyway | 17:26 |
nemo | KatolaZ: https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Processor-Wraith-Stealth-Cooler/dp/B07B41WS48/ waddaya think? | 17:26 |
KatolaZ | nemo: I told you, I rarely buy hardware at all, so I am the worst person to ask an opinion on new hw | 17:27 |
KatolaZ | :\ | 17:27 |
nemo | 'k ☺ | 17:27 |
Human_G33k | if i try to migrate a debian testing to a devuan i will broke it ? smb/amule/transmission/openvpn are the main soft on it | 21:47 |
gnarface | Human_G33k: maybe, maybe not. check the forums, it has been discussed. | 22:01 |
golinux | Human_G33k: Our "testing" is beowulf. Always use the release name in your sources.list. | 22:13 |
Human_G33k | yep golinux | 22:14 |
golinux | I would search the dev1galaxy forum to see if any issues have popped up for those packages. | 22:14 |
Human_G33k | i think i will just try with a vm | 22:14 |
golinux | beowulf, especially the desktop, may have issues at this point. | 22:14 |
golinux | Good idea. If you want to install from scratch, there is a mini.iso | 22:15 |
golinux | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/unstable/main/installer-i386/20181125/images/netboot/ | 22:16 |
golinux | There is also a amd64 iso | 22:16 |
Human_G33k | i think it’s important at least for this release to be sure migration from debian can be done | 22:17 |
golinux | Yes. But we're not there yet,. | 22:17 |
Human_G33k | some people like me may have some debian testing | 22:17 |
golinux | We'll get there eventually | 22:17 |
Human_G33k | do you know if the kde fork is in devuan ? | 22:18 |
golinux | Yes KDE is available. Might be issues in beowulf though. | 22:18 |
golinux | Read the ASCII Release Notes so you can understand the consolekit polkit stuff | 22:19 |
Human_G33k | ok i will clone / upgrade my testing and stable vm and make news for fresh install | 22:20 |
golinux | Please report your experience on the forum or DNG mailing list. | 22:20 |
Human_G33k | ok i will :D | 22:21 |
Human_G33k | there is somewhere schematics of devuan core package ? | 22:21 |
Human_G33k | *packages | 22:22 |
gnarface | git.devuan.org? | 22:23 |
gnarface | most of the packages are not different from debian | 22:23 |
golinux | I'm looking for the linl | 22:24 |
Human_G33k | i want to know which commom packages devuan need for DE | 22:24 |
golinux | https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages | 22:24 |
Human_G33k | i will start a thread tests. | 22:24 |
Human_G33k | thx | 22:24 |
golinux | You might also read the migration instructions for ascii | 22:26 |
golinux | https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ | 22:26 |
golinux | Especially if you're coming from systemd environment. | 22:27 |
Human_G33k | i already have migrate some debian | 22:28 |
Human_G33k | Some of you also knows how to custom the debian installer ? | 22:30 |
gnarface | technically, the devuan installer is just a custom version of the debian installer | 22:31 |
Human_G33k | i know that | 22:31 |
gnarface | well, so someone around here must know how to do it | 22:32 |
Human_G33k | i just want lvl up fast for make some improvment on it | 22:32 |
gnarface | should also be in git.devuan.org somewhere | 22:32 |
KatolaZ | Human_G33k: you can put together a preseed file, if you need to make many installs ( | 22:33 |
KatolaZ | (sorry if I state something obvious) | 22:33 |
gnarface | i was gonna mention that too but i wasn't sure if that's what he meant. | 22:33 |
Human_G33k | no i don’t want | 22:33 |
gnarface | since he said "some improvement" i assumed he wanted to mess with the guided partitioning, because everyone seems to hate that part | 22:34 |
Human_G33k | make it several time some time show some error | 22:34 |
gnarface | ah | 22:35 |
gnarface | fyi there should be console errors on alt+f4 or F3 or one of those... | 22:35 |
Human_G33k | in fact yes i always do manual partitioning | 22:35 |
Human_G33k | because i always do dm-crypt lvm | 22:35 |
gnarface | sometimes errors go into one of those virtual terminals that could be useful to show up in the gui | 22:35 |
gnarface | usually just edge cases though | 22:36 |
Human_G33k | if i can learn fast how to make change in the installer | 22:36 |
Human_G33k | i want to make some users type/kind preset | 22:36 |
Human_G33k | and hardenned options | 22:37 |
gnarface | look into the tasksel part | 22:37 |
gnarface | i can't help with specifics, but the presets are called "tasks" or mabye "task packages" | 22:38 |
Human_G33k | i know yes | 22:38 |
Human_G33k | i will come back soon | 22:39 |
Human_G33k | (desapear in a cyber ninja smoke bomb) | 22:39 |
KatolaZ | Human_G33k: the installer is not easy to hack around | 23:29 |
KatolaZ | if you are just interested in package collections, then tasksel is the place to start | 23:30 |
KatolaZ | other components might be far less easy to customise | 23:31 |
KatolaZ | it's a mixture of C, Perl, and shell scripts, accumulated over about 15 years | 23:31 |
KatolaZ | and all interacting with each other, in obvious and less obvious ways | 23:31 |
Human_G33k | KatolaZ, no trouble for me with this languages interaction may be problematic | 23:38 |
Human_G33k | *, | 23:40 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!