DocScrutinizer05 | >>hijackers hijackers hijackers hijackers hijackers hijackers hippopotamus hippopotamus hippopotamus hippopotamus hippopotamus pecunia pecunia pecunia pecunia pecunia pecunia pecunia pecunia facilius !!!!!!! !<< | 00:31 |
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DocScrutinizer05 | = owo owo owo owo uwu uwu uwu uwu owo owo owo owo uwu uwu uwu owo owo owo owo owo owo owo owo owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu!!!!!!! | 00:32 |
DocScrutinizer05 | one ! less: | 00:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | owo owo owo owo uwu uwu uwu uwu owo owo owo owo uwu uwu uwu owo owo owo owo owo owo owo owo owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu owo uwu!!!!!! = A person who does not know what he wants to do to a person who does not know what he does to someone who does not know what he wants to do. | 00:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | really WTF | 00:33 |
watchcat | wtf? i thought this was devuan support. | 00:35 |
golinux | It's supposed to be. | 00:36 |
aitor | A million hamsters are spinning their wheels right now | 00:53 |
g4570n | aitor: hi | 00:54 |
aitor | hi | 00:54 |
aitor | where are you from? | 00:54 |
aitor | argentina | 00:55 |
g4570n | yes, come to #devuan-mx 😛 | 00:55 |
aitor | save... | 00:55 |
aitor | I'm there | 00:57 |
g4570n | 👍 | 00:57 |
clotharthefrank | Hello, trying to migrate from Ubuntu Trusty to Devuan ascii. Issue I have is system is not recognizing the proper max resolution of my screen. My monitor is a "HP Pavilion w1707 Monitor". When I boot using Ubuntu, the monitor is correctly identified and properly set. When I boot using Devuan, the boot process does not recognize the monitor correctly and is coming up at 1280x1024 resolution instead of the expected 1440x9 | 01:15 |
clotharthefrank | I've tried substituting the display.xml file from Ubuntu for the one on Devuan, but it seems like Devuan is re-creating that file at every boot. | 01:16 |
clotharthefrank | Also, trying to use the cvt and xrandr commands to customise the Display settings tool. When I do those, the correct resolution is shown in the drop-down choices, when I choose it, the correct "sample" is displayed, but when I click on apply, it all reverts back to the "default" 1280x1024. | 01:16 |
clotharthefrank | There is somewhere that I believe I can set a "VGA" parameter with a number to be the value for the proper display, but I can't seem to locate where that is. | 01:16 |
clotharthefrank | Can anyone help me? P.S. "inxi" did not show me anything that would allow me to search or tweak files where I can add the proper monitor definition properties. | 01:16 |
DocScrutinizer05 | watchcat: yeah, that's what I thought as well | 01:27 |
DocScrutinizer05 | but actually, it's not support, it's a discussion channel. Says /topic | 01:28 |
fsmithred | clotharthefrank, try /etc/default/grub | 01:30 |
fsmithred | grub_gfxmode or grub_gfxpayload | 01:31 |
golinux | clotharthefrank: I don't know that anyone has tried that. I find it hard to believe that it would work. | 01:36 |
golinux | Likely would create a Frankendevuan. The Debian wiki is quite clear about not mixing repositories: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian/ | 01:39 |
fsmithred | clotharthefrank, did you enable non-free repos? There might be firmware you need. | 01:40 |
fsmithred | golinux, I don't think he's mixing anything. Sounds like a dual-boot setup. | 01:41 |
golinux | <clotharthefrank> Hello, trying to migrate from Ubuntu Trusty to Devuan ascii. | 01:42 |
fsmithred | read more | 01:43 |
golinux | LOL! "Migrate" might not have been the best word | 01:44 |
fsmithred | like a bird going from one continent to another | 01:45 |
MinceR | upgrade | 01:45 |
golinux | "dual boot" would have been helpful | 01:47 |
fsmithred | you're just hypersensitive about mixing repos | 01:47 |
golinux | Well, that too. There is a steam of unlimted stupidity on help channels | 01:49 |
golinux | stream | 01:49 |
golinux | It is very sensitizing | 01:50 |
golinux | I'm about ready to do diffs on CPCinnabar. | 01:50 |
golinux | Then will transfer to beowulf and see what explodes. | 01:50 |
bahumbedbug | Hmm.. re topic and nickserv, channel is not +r | 01:54 |
MinceR | yeah, we used to quiet unidentified, unvoiced people because of spambots | 01:58 |
golinux | !ot . . . I like it!! | 02:00 |
MinceR | i don't know what was there, it was cut off already | 02:03 |
golinux | I just looked in the scrollback | 02:07 |
golinux | I would paste here but the bot would slam me | 02:08 |
DocScrutinizer05 | MinceR: nothing cut off | 02:21 |
clotharthefrank | Thank you fsmithred, I have updated my file and will advise when I reboot. | 02:44 |
fsmithred | you ran update-grub after editing? | 02:45 |
clotharthefrank | Hi golinux, the format of the xml in the display.xml appears to be identical, with the exception of the resolution values which I was assigning to the appropriate parameter, so I don't think there is any fear of a Frankendevuan. | 02:50 |
clotharthefrank | Hi fsmithred, I did enable non-free repos. It had no impact. | 02:51 |
fsmithred | lol, you might need to install something from the non-free | 02:51 |
fsmithred | what graphics do you have? | 02:51 |
fsmithred | amd, nvidia or intel? | 02:52 |
fsmithred | maybe you need firmware-linux-nonfree or firmware-amd-graphics | 02:52 |
clotharthefrank | ... and yes, it is a quad-boot setup: Primary ubuntu, Backup server ubuntu, Experimental distro (this case Devuan, my hopeful future) and Legacy Ubuntu. | 02:52 |
clotharthefrank | Hi MinceR, I have no intention to pursue an upgrade; especially to Ubuntu 19.04 . I hate the concept of systemd with a passion, and find boot takes about twice as long, and shutdown takes about 10 times as long. No interest in staying with Ubuntu because of that very bad judgement call, which can only be driven by a motivation to minimize migration to another distro or to minimize cloning of ubuntu by other distros. My o | 02:57 |
fsmithred | I think he meant that going from ubuntu to devuan IS and upgrade | 03:00 |
fsmithred | and/an | 03:00 |
clotharthefrank | hi fsmithred, in Primary Ubuntu at this time. Will do update-grub once I have Devuan live. | 03:01 |
fsmithred | ok | 03:01 |
fsmithred | oh, so you need something in the ubuntu menu for devuan resolution? | 03:02 |
clotharthefrank | From inxi: Graphics: Device-1: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] RS780D [Radeon HD 3300] driver: radeon v: kernel Display: server: X.Org 1.18.4 driver: ati,radeon unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa resolution: 1440x900~60Hz OpenGL: renderer: AMD RS780 (DRM 2.43.0 / 4.4.0-142-generic LLVM 6.0.0) v: 3.3 Mesa 18.0.5 | 03:04 |
fsmithred | so maybe you need firmware-amd-graphics | 03:04 |
fsmithred | but you can test the grub thing easily | 03:04 |
fsmithred | reboot, select the devuan entry, press e to edit, add this before the linux line... | 03:05 |
fsmithred | set gfxpayload=1440x900 | 03:05 |
fsmithred | then ctrl-x to boot | 03:06 |
fsmithred | if that doesn't work, install the firmware package | 03:06 |
Glats | hi. it is possible to create a symlink folder but keeping the content? | 03:09 |
Glats | for example: | 03:09 |
clotharthefrank | hi fsmithred, need to reboot to switch to Devuan partition. Will drop out of this conversation for a few moment and will return with update. Thank you very much for the hints. Much appreciated! TTFN! | 03:10 |
Glats | i want to put ln -s /home/user/foo /home/user/bar/foo | 03:10 |
Glats | but keeping the content of /home/user/bar/foo | 03:10 |
fsmithred | if it already exists, you can't make the symlink | 03:10 |
Glats | ok | 03:11 |
Glats | but theres another way? | 03:11 |
gnarface | yea, move the directory first, then make the symlink | 03:11 |
Glats | but i want to keep the contento of bar/foo | 03:11 |
fsmithred | maybe some kind of esoteric mount options | 03:12 |
Glats | yeah | 03:12 |
Glats | hahah | 03:12 |
gnarface | are you trying to merge the contents of two directories Glats? | 03:12 |
Glats | yeah | 03:12 |
gnarface | why not just copy the contents from one to the other first? | 03:12 |
Glats | bec. i will to do that every time new files appears | 03:13 |
gnarface | no, you just have to do it once, then you can make the symlink | 03:13 |
gnarface | symlinks can't have contents of their own. think of them as desktop shortcuts (that's not technically accurate but it's the closest analogy i can draw for you from windows) | 03:13 |
Glats | so the content has to be in one place | 03:14 |
gnarface | strictly speaking, no, but for the purposes of this discussion, it's practically yes | 03:15 |
gnarface | so go with yes for now | 03:15 |
fsmithred | I like to think of it as a wormhole | 03:16 |
Glats | yeah. i understand | 03:16 |
gnarface | if its | 03:16 |
gnarface | of ot | 03:16 |
gnarface | * | 03:16 |
gnarface | if it's a LOT of files and you're afraid of the work of manually merging the directories because you have to deal with conflicting versions in both directories, check into the command-line tool "rsync" | 03:17 |
gnarface | there is stuff to dynamically merge mount points on the fly but you really don't want to mess with doing that for something like this. it would be a massive overcomplication of the task | 03:17 |
gnarface | (and also i can't tell you how from memory anyway) | 03:18 |
gnarface | as a long-term solution, the symlink is much easier to manage. you just have to deal with de-duplication separately | 03:20 |
gnarface | but again, that's only once | 03:20 |
gnarface | once the symlink is in place, there will actually only be one directory | 03:21 |
gnarface | it doesn't dynamically merge two directories, it just literally redirects to one of them | 03:21 |
gnarface | it's easier to make sense of visually in a terminal if you go into your ~/.bashrc and uncomment these two lines: | 03:23 |
gnarface | eval "`dircolors -b`" | 03:23 |
gnarface | alias ls='ls --color=auto -F' | 03:23 |
gnarface | (you might have to add -F, i forget if i did that myself or not) | 03:23 |
gnarface | (actually i added -N too, but i think newer users won't like that option) | 03:24 |
MinceR | 17 030049 < fsmithred> I think he meant that going from ubuntu to devuan IS and upgrade | 03:45 |
MinceR | this. | 03:46 |
clotharthefrank | Hello, my issues are resolved. Since I did both, modify the /etc/default/grub file, and add the firmware-linux-nonfree package, which pulled in the firmware-amd-graphics package, I am not sure which was the fix. I ran the grub-mkconfig after both of those, so they could have both contributed to a better boot setup. | 04:46 |
clotharthefrank | Because that issue is resolved, and documented (ha! ha!), I am moving away from Ubuntu. With my key tools being Firefox and Thunderbird, I have no concerns about migration. All else is contained. Thank you, fsmithred! You really know your stuff. | 04:50 |
clotharthefrank | As for future, focus will be threefold: 1) leverage background in CAD/CAM which is heavily UNIX-based, 2) convert IT experience into user-end desktop-automation tools, and my dream 3) write a SciFi book. | 04:56 |
xrogaan | desktop automation tools? | 04:57 |
clotharthefrank | Hi xrogaan, self-sorting todo list, project risk rating/assessment tool, various tools to automate distro configuration/documentation/backup, iptables firewall installation/configuration/customization, including country exclusion lists. | 05:01 |
xrogaan | you may want taskwarrior then | 05:02 |
xrogaan | > https://taskwarrior.org/ | 05:02 |
clotharthefrank | Thank you, xrogaan! I guess I can take the todo list project off my list. :-) | 05:06 |
xrogaan | I don't know why you want to automate the configuration though, has it's already been taken care of by the distro itself. | 05:07 |
xrogaan | for backup: https://wiki.debian.org/BackupAndRecovery | 05:08 |
xrogaan | you have something like 20 years or so of people wanting backup and writing tools for it :P | 05:08 |
xrogaan | as for iptables, well, depends on what you actually want and need. | 05:09 |
xrogaan | this is a desktop user tool: http://www.shorewall.net/ | 05:10 |
clotharthefrank | For the backup tool, is there a place to drop my tool (script) for comment? | 05:11 |
xrogaan | gist.github.com or dpaste.org or paste.debian.net | 05:12 |
clotharthefrank | I've looked at a bunch of the firewall tools and didn't like the way they all force a non-system desktop user to do system-level type analysis and configuration, rather than use "end-user" "wants specification" for the configuration. I'm only 20% complete on that one. | 05:14 |
xrogaan | because filtering the network isn't the job of the user. | 05:15 |
xrogaan | iptables is system wide, not user specific. | 05:15 |
xrogaan | Kind of. You can restrict a group/user from accessing the internet. | 05:16 |
xrogaan | If you are the sole user, maybe it's a problem for you. Most linux system have several users with different needs. | 05:18 |
golinux | iptables is on the way out. Moving to "legacy" status | 05:20 |
clotharthefrank | I've worked as sysadmin in a multinational, doing server support for boxes on multiple continents. I want to translate that to single-user desktop boxes, make them highly functional and impenetrable, by adapting all the tools and capabilities that are already out there, but packaging them in a way that the non-expert can confidently push the button and get the desired result. :-) | 05:20 |
golinux | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190215.232536.366404aa.en.html | 05:21 |
xrogaan | clotharthefrank: so, snort? | 05:21 |
xrogaan | wtf is nftables? | 05:22 |
clotharthefrank | as for iptables, nftables is still not "productionized" nor widely distributed. | 05:22 |
xrogaan | soon to change, niark niark. | 05:23 |
clotharthefrank | snort is intended for site/server admins, not an non-systems end-user. I am a systems guy with a user attitude. There are too many tools rolled out without the necessary simplication for, let's say, an artist, a nurse, a store manage, an accountant, who don't want to deal with systems complications or learn the necesary precise terminology to make sure they don't mis-step! | 05:24 |
xrogaan | IIRC snort can be used to automatically put on filters. But I may remember wrong. | 05:26 |
clotharthefrank | In that vein, Ubuntu's approach to install is almost perfect, but there is still tool much of the details demanded of users, that could be hidden by smart logic. | 05:26 |
clotharthefrank | Getting snort to the point that it can automate demands a level of system-specific knowledge that is too much for the layman. | 05:27 |
xrogaan | golinux: I now understand why the tuxfamily people are usually frisky when it comes to upgrading their debian box. Things that don't need to change breaks everything because they changed. | 05:28 |
clotharthefrank | Upgrading boxes is always a high-risk venture, unless you've done the research to certify that each intended/required package is updated to be functionally aware, if required, about behaviour changes in hardware. That is why abstraction layers are so crucial between coding and hardware, to standardize what is being looked at, and help identify the template-breaking "new features"! | 05:32 |
clotharthefrank | BTW, how do I register for an account on this site? | 05:34 |
xrogaan | which site? | 05:34 |
clotharthefrank | freenode.net I used a handle for the chat, but I am only a guest. I would like to register. | 05:35 |
xrogaan | /msg nickserv help register | 05:37 |
golinux | Yeah, I noticed you were on webchat. That must have been painful. | 05:38 |
xrogaan | you may want to use a proper irc client though. | 05:38 |
xrogaan | depending on your DE, either hexchat or konversation. | 05:38 |
xrogaan | or irssi if you love command line | 05:41 |
xrogaan | also, there is a third packet filtering mechanism being worked on: bpfilter! | 05:42 |
clotharthefrank | On bpfilter, the big corporate players have leveraged a lot on ipfilter, springboarding all their highly customized tools on that baseline technology. nffilter, being the next-gen from the same ipfilter team, has integrated migration bath due to the builtin import compatibility mechanisms. For that reason, bpfilter will likely fall to the wayside ... but you never know, if than can come up with that killer tech! :-) | 05:48 |
xrogaan | oh I prefer /bin, it's shorter to write | 06:57 |
enyc | hrrm | 07:04 |
enyc | Wondering wtf I have done with devuan desktop to get such odd errors over time ;p | 07:05 |
enyc | err | 07:05 |
enyc | Now, trying to use MATE menus to open a folder [which you expect to open 'caja' file browser], now opens VLC which goes mad doing silly things, instead!. | 07:06 |
enyc | MATE desktop on ASCII .... | 07:06 |
enyc | hrrm, new 'thunderbird' needs to propagate into ascii ... | 07:20 |
golinux | Ascii is stable. Only new packages will be in security fixes or backports. | 07:27 |
golinux | enyc | 07:27 |
golinux | ^^^ | 07:28 |
enyc | golinux: or -updates ... | 07:55 |
enyc | golinux: lots has come through into stretch-updates because of debian 9.8 release | 07:55 |
enyc | but 1:60.5.1-1~deb9u1 hasn't propagated//been-released into ascii-* yet seemingly | 07:56 |
enyc | thunderbird, that is | 07:57 |
watchcat | small weirdness. icedove and lighning won't update. they listed as --upgradable, but apt upgrade does nothing. i have 'proposed' and 'backports' enabled, dunno if that's relevant. thes rest of today's upgrades went normally. it's late, i'll check it tomorrow. | 07:57 |
enyc | watchcat: humm is icedove still supported at all? | 07:58 |
enyc | watchcat: i thought changed to thunderbird | 07:58 |
watchcat | that's just a left over pseudonym for thunderbird. | 07:58 |
enyc | aah transitional pakage | 07:59 |
enyc | watchcat: dep: thunderbird (>= 1:60.5.1-1~deb9u1) | 07:59 |
enyc | yes, so icedove is expecting the thunderbird 60.5. [..] | 07:59 |
enyc | which is whats' missing from ascii | 07:59 |
enyc | hence, inability to update | 07:59 |
watchcat | mkay, that splains it, ty :) | 07:59 |
enyc | which reminds me, to sort out my gnupg key renewal fun | 08:02 |
DocScrutinizer05 | gnarface: maybe you find that useful (re "alias ls=..."): http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/lstree | 15:25 |
DocScrutinizer05 | actually 100% my invention :-) | 15:26 |
DocScrutinizer05 | for the lazy folks: in root shell: wget http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/lstree -O /usr/local/bin/lstree && chmod +x /usr/local/bin/lstree | 15:32 |
DocScrutinizer05 | if some of you improves that stuff, e.g. adding --help etc, please share! | 15:34 |
DocScrutinizer05 | https://i.imgur.com/h6aZQWf.png | 15:39 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I love the symlinks getting shown | 15:41 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >><Glats> hi. it is possible to create a symlink folder but keeping the content?<< no symlink, maybe maount a unionfs or somesuch | 15:49 |
DocScrutinizer05 | or is it called overlayfs now? | 15:50 |
DocScrutinizer05 | frequently used to allow storing new files to a live system on a read-only volume like DVD | 15:51 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Glats: ^^^ | 15:52 |
DocScrutinizer05 | man unionfs | 15:53 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >> unionfs overlays several directory into one single mount point. It first tries to access the file on the top branch and if the file does not exist there, it continues on lower level branches. If the user tries to modify a file on a lower level read-only branch the file is copied to to a higher level read-write branch if the copy-on-write (cow) mode was enabled.<< | 15:54 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Glats: please holler if you need more help with using unionfs-fuse dor "merging" two dirs into one. I guess it should be simpler to handle than symlinks plus rsync/whatever | 16:29 |
DocScrutinizer05 | fsmithred: what do the live images use in this context? | 16:41 |
fsmithred | overlayfs | 16:42 |
DocScrutinizer05 | HAH, I *knew* there was another name too | 16:42 |
fsmithred | was aufs in wheezy, unionfs in squeeze | 16:42 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ooh so they are somewhat equiv all three? | 16:43 |
fsmithred | I think they all server more or less the same role, but I don't really know much about it | 16:43 |
fsmithred | just happened to be reading about it when you started talking about it | 16:44 |
DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 16:44 |
DocScrutinizer05 | unionfs is fuse \o/ | 16:44 |
DocScrutinizer05 | for the good or the bad | 16:44 |
DocScrutinizer05 | my manpages don'T give me any info about au and overlay | 16:45 |
DocScrutinizer05 | wikipedia to th rescue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnionFS#Other_implementations | 16:51 |
DocScrutinizer05 | so scratch >>unionfs is fuse \o/<<, make that >>there's a fuse-unionfs too \o/<< | 16:53 |
Glats | DocScrutinizer05: perfect. sound nice. I will trey and i'll comment you | 18:54 |
xrogaan | DocScrutinizer05: tree -fughDF | 20:04 |
Glats | DocScrutinizer05: i thought there is possible to do unions in linux like in plan9 DocScrutinizer05: | 20:50 |
Glats | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs#Union_directories_and_namespaces | 20:51 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Glats: that's unionfs-fuse | 20:53 |
DocScrutinizer05 | though unionfs does 'more' than what I read in plan9 description. Shjould also merge subdirs auiu | 20:54 |
DocScrutinizer05 | aiui* | 20:55 |
Glats | perfect | 20:59 |
rrq | DocScrutinizer05: I missed the party, but "man mount' has a section about overlay. | 21:42 |
DocScrutinizer05 | rrq: yeah. I suggested man unionfs | 21:44 |
rrq | yes, same thing (as I remember). If you want to go crazy, there's also mhddfs, but I'm not sure there's a package for it :) | 21:49 |
DocScrutinizer05 | my `man unionfs` is actually about unionfs-fuse | 21:56 |
DocScrutinizer05 | no messing around with low level system stuff like mount, fstab etc | 21:56 |
DocScrutinizer05 | seems more appropriate when the dirs to merge are actually user specific | 21:57 |
rrq | yes; better for ad-hoc set up by non-root user | 22:07 |
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