libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2019-03-09

shibbolethanyone care to ELI5 the reason for machine-id even existing?00:04
shibbolethmanagement?00:04
KatolaZshibboleth: ask systemd developers :)00:04
KatolaZand BTW a hostid has always existed in unix and unix-like OSes00:05
shibbolethasking systemd devs is a lot like asking big tobacco i reckon00:06
shibboleth"why is this, exactly"? "don't worry about that, these are not the droids you are looking for, look, a squirrel!"00:07
KatolaZshibboleth: then ask yourself :D00:07
MinceR09 000515 < KatolaZ> and BTW a hostid has always existed in unix and unix-like OSes00:08
MinceRhostname?00:08
KatolaZagain, /etc/hostid exists since 198200:08
KatolaZnope MinceR00:08
KatolaZ/etc/hostid00:08
KatolaZit's even in POSIX00:09
KatolaZans in SUS00:09
KatolaZs/ans/and00:09
MinceRlooks like this slackware install violates posix00:09
KatolaZmaybe :)00:09
KatolaZto be precise, POSIX defines gethostid(2)00:11
KatolaZand it should return a unique, consistent 32-bit identifier of the current host00:11
KatolaZin most implementations, this is kept in /etc/hostid00:11
MinceRskeletons keep falling out of the closet00:12
KatolaZor in /var/adm/hostid00:12
KatolaZMinceR: there is no skeleton there00:12
KatolaZit has been there since 4.2BSD00:12
KatolaZwe are talking about an "old-school unix" from 35 years ago00:13
phoggmaybe somebody decided 32 bits were not enough; machine-id is 128bit.00:57
XenguyAll hail the great Posix01:00
Xenguy*POSIX01:01
XenguyDid systemd break POSIX?01:02
Xenguy^^ Possibly OT01:02
fsmithredlooks like it's /usr/bin/hostid which returns a hexadecimal number. The man page just says "print the numeric identifier for the current host" and doesn't say where that number comes from.01:09
gnarfaceno /etc/hostid or /var/adm/hostid anywhere over here.  /usr/bin/hostid does return what appears to be a 4-octet hex value though02:03
rrq007F0100 ?03:23
fsmithredwhoa03:24
gnarfacerrq: no collision here03:24
fsmithredhow'd you get my number?03:24
gnarfacefsmithred: you really have the same number?03:24
fsmithredlemme check03:25
gnarfacei noticed two of my machines had the same first 2 octets03:25
rrqthe IP of the hostname as of /etc/hosts03:25
fsmithredno, but it's really close03:25
gnarfacei'm not sure where it's getting them but i do suspect there might be insufficient uniqueness to really be able to trust this value03:25
fsmithred007f010103:26
rrq127.0.1.103:26
gnarfacemy first two octets aren't the same as yours either03:26
fsmithredtwo computers have that number and one has the same as rrq's03:26
gnarfacea8c02201 on this machine03:27
gnarface(ceres)03:27
rrqfor me it's the ip of the entry in /etc/hosts that is named by hostname03:27
fsmithredascii and jessie here03:27
rrqas little-endian integer03:27
gnarfacea8c02601 on a rpi running ascii ..03:28
rrq192.168.1.3803:28
gnarfacee36c2d34 on a laptop running jessie ...03:28
gnarfaceyou're saying these are just the ip address of eth0 in hex?03:29
rrqyes03:29
gnarfacehmm. interesting03:29
rrqbyte swapped03:29
gnarface(that's my l4d1&2 server btw)03:30
gnarface(have fun)03:30
fsmithredmy two that are the same currently have addresses in 10.0.0.x and the different one is 192.168.1.x03:31
fsmithredbut they all started out in 192.168...03:31
gnarface(oh there's a chivalry server on there too, i forgot)03:31
rrqmaybe its what "host $(hostname)" resolves into03:32
rrqresolves in /etc/hosts that is03:32
DocScrutinizer05>> Full documentation at: <https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/hostid> <<08:42
DocScrutinizer05from manpage08:42
DocScrutinizer05locate hostid doesn't reveal anything in etc or elsewhere, except the executable in bin08:44
DocScrutinizer05rrq: actually that's in line with https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/hostid  >>On that system, the 32-bit quantity happens to be closely related to the system’s Internet address, but that isn’t always the case. <<08:46
ErRandirI also have 007f0101 and 127.0.1.1 and /etc/hosts09:42
DocScrutinizer05yeah, 007f0100 seems popular, I got one as well09:59
DocScrutinizer05oh, one off09:59
Leanderhttps://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=blob;f=sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/gethostid.c;h=0c416f5b8ac0f72d979d6ea073723c9035a0872d;hb=refs/heads/master10:10
Leanderthis is gethostid's source10:10
Leanderso basically, it takes your hostname, resolves it into your ip address (and the first one it finds is typically 127.0.0.1), then inverts the upper 16 bits and lower 16 bits10:11
Leanderand because your IP address is stored in big endian format, you have 1.0.0.127 converted into 0.127.1.0, which is 007f0100 in hexadecimal10:12
KatolaZLeander: that is only if /etc/hostid does not exist10:17
LeanderKatolaZ: yes, I was looking into why most people get the magical 007f010010:21
KatolaZoh sure10:21
KatolaZ:)10:21
ErRandirSo I'm better off putting a random number in /etc/hostid, right?10:26
KatolaZErRandir: I personally think it's pretty useless anyway10:53
KatolaZthe most powerful way to avoi being tracked is to disable cookies and javascript10:53
KatolaZand to use tor10:53
KatolaZusing tor with cookies enabled is pretty lousy anyway10:54
iovecI'm happy devuan is not succumbing to broken ideas like /etc/machine-id11:16
KatolaZxinomilo: your bug report was stuck, but was eventually processed14:57
sokanDon't burn me for this question but how can I get the dev1 installation image from rsync mirrors?15:07
xinomiloKatolaz: yes, got the aknowledgement allright , thx.15:07
KatolaZsokan: https://devuan.org/get-devuan15:17
KatolaZsokan: look for "RSYNC mirrors"...15:17
sokanI meant after that I 'rsync -av mirror.leaseweb.com::devuan/devuan_ascii /path/to/my/desktop/dir`?15:27
sokanI ended up `man rsync`. Got me covered I think :P15:29
sokanto all these who use a *wm, do you have your usb-stick/devices auto-mounted or do you manually mount it?17:28
DPAThe website https://devuan.org is down.23:40
g4570nyes, but https://files.devuan.org works23:41
sixwheeledbeasthttp://isup.me/devuan.org23:58
sixwheeledbeastyep23:58
golinuxWe know23:58

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