| ErRandir | no problem. It has evolved over quite a long time, I guess that's why it may look disorganised to you | 00:15 |
|---|---|---|
| tuxd3v | Good Morning all | 13:06 |
| djph | o/ tuxd3v | 14:45 |
| Evilham | hellooo | 14:45 |
| Evilham | I've disabled registration to git.devuan.org with gmail addresses for the moment, IDK how people have their hands on so many fake gmail addresses | 14:46 |
| Evilham | last time I checked they require people to provide a valid telephone number to create new accounts | 14:46 |
| Evilham | in any case, if someone comes complaining about that, can you please ask them to drop me a PM? :-D | 14:47 |
| Evilham | this is a temporary measure :-) | 14:47 |
| tuxd3v | That is a good news | 14:51 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 14:51 |
| tuxd3v | privacy is good | 14:51 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 14:51 |
| gour | hello | 14:51 |
| tuxd3v | gour: o/ | 14:52 |
| tuxd3v | djph: o/ | 14:52 |
| tuxd3v | Evilham: what are the requirements to create projects in git.devuan.org ? | 14:53 |
| tuxd3v | I mean if there are any | 14:53 |
| gour | looking for non-systemd distro which is not too 'stable', iow. i moved (from debian-sid) to manjaro-stable in order to have fresh pkgs, but not at the edge like arch in order not to update every day...devuan stable is like debian, but wonder whether 'testing' and 'sid' are same as debian? | 14:53 |
| gour | i'm evaluating voidlinux, abandoned nixos (still systemd) and looking at guixsd although i need few non-free apps (skype for non-profit monthly videoconfeernces, anydesk to troubleshoot my father-in-law's remote machine etc.) | 14:54 |
| tuxd3v | Evilham: Is there any particular policy that we need to follow, to host their a project? | 14:55 |
| gour | is it possible to install devuan-unstable straight away or stable first and then upgrading? | 14:55 |
| tuxd3v | I am making a tool to build deviam on Several arm sbc's, can I host it in Devuan git ? | 14:56 |
| tuxd3v | gour: yes | 14:56 |
| tuxd3v | you can | 14:56 |
| tuxd3v | Install I haven't tested, but you should be able to pass to Beowulf | 15:01 |
| gour | that's like sid? | 15:02 |
| tuxd3v | some sort of | 15:02 |
| tuxd3v | Planet: 38086 | 15:02 |
| Evilham | gour: we have no daily/weekly builds for isos, but you can use the devuan-installer for ascii + debootstrap to install directly beowulf (current testing) if you know how to do that :-), if not we can surely find something that guides you | 15:03 |
| Evilham | tuxd3v: there are no hard requirements IIRC; gdo is intended to be used by devuan-related things, so you are on the safe side, if you run into project limits let us know and we'll see | 15:04 |
| Evilham | in any case, with git being decentralised, you can (and should) always have a copy of your data, so you can move away wheneveryou want / need | 15:04 |
| tuxd3v | Evilham: Thanks for your reply | 15:05 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 15:05 |
| tuxd3v | I have another project.. | 15:05 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 15:05 |
| tuxd3v | Which is to control a simple fan | 15:05 |
| tuxd3v | at the moment I needed to release it for systemd, but I plan to add Devuan to that platform( rockpro64 ) | 15:06 |
| tuxd3v | at that stage could I host the project in Devuan git? | 15:07 |
| tuxd3v | this his the project | 15:07 |
| tuxd3v | https://github.com/tuxd3v/ats | 15:08 |
| Evilham | tuxd3v: I'd say, if it's really within your plans to support devuan in there, go ahead | 15:08 |
| Evilham | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 15:09 |
| Evilham | even if you first have to support systemd | 15:09 |
| tuxd3v | Evilham: I had too, because no Devuan release for rockpro64 yet | 15:09 |
| tuxd3v | I plan to add it, and my makefile is also prepared to support SysVinit | 15:10 |
| tuxd3v | its a mather of creating a image for it.. | 15:10 |
| Evilham | gour: take a look at this table of rough equivalence between releases: https://devuan.org/ | 15:11 |
| tuxd3v | therefor I plan to develop exclucivlyy on Devuan | 15:11 |
| gour | is there a non-free repo for devuan available? | 15:11 |
| tuxd3v | Becasue I need a release that has all the requirements to do kernel developing, has I will need to develop at least one, maybe 2 kernel drivers.. | 15:12 |
| tuxd3v | And current images, or doesn't have source code, or doesn't have header kernel files, and so on.. | 15:12 |
| Evilham | gour: yeah, check this here too: https://devuan.org/os/ | 15:12 |
| Evilham | tuxd3v: IIRC parazyd was working on this | 15:13 |
| tuxd3v | Evilham: yes I know of that, with the zsh sdk | 15:13 |
| gour | Evilham: thanks, just found it | 15:13 |
| tuxd3v | I spoke to him , and he was a big help, on orienting me at beguining | 15:13 |
| Evilham | yeah, parazyd is awesome :-) | 15:14 |
| tuxd3v | yes, its awesome | 15:15 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 15:15 |
| gour | do you recommend some other init system (openrc, runit,..) for a new install? | 15:16 |
| tuxd3v | lots of helpful contributions from him, he helped me a lot! | 15:16 |
| Evilham | gour: it's a matter of preference, in the end OpenRC relies on SysVInit and I don't recall the state of runit as an init system. I rely on SysVinit for init and runit for service management | 15:19 |
| gour | Evilham: runit is used for service management by default install? | 15:20 |
| * gour is preparing usb stick for install on (spare) machibe (netbook) | 15:21 | |
| Evilham | there were a couple talks about s6 at devuan-conf as well, which has a similar approach to service management, you can check that here: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2782 mind that sound is not the greatest because there were some issues with the stream, there will be separate videos with good sound quality "sooN" | 15:21 |
| Evilham | gour: no, devuan hasn't changed the defaults (SysVinit as init and no real service management), but it is fairly easy to start runit/s6 and manage your own services with it | 15:22 |
| gour | ahh, ok | 15:23 |
| Evilham | someone should write some documentation as to how to do that :-), if you are up for that, commenting on a draft is usually easier than writing from scratch | 15:25 |
| gour | btw, in {devuan, guixsd, voidlinux}, devuan seems to be the optimal choice considering debian's maturity and my previous experience running it... | 15:30 |
| Evilham | gour: I hope you have a good experience then, do mention if there is something that is too rough atm | 15:34 |
| gour | sure. btw, nice t-shirts for buying in the shop ;) | 15:38 |
| gour | finally, after doing some household work, i'm doing install on my netbook... | 16:42 |
| gour | checking package repo and noticed https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=weather-plugin&release=any - that one is probably too old (will check it soon) - there is a need for a new weather provider since the old one does not work any longer...iirc | 16:58 |
| gour | everything is fine with my netbook install...automount of media does work properly, system is very fast, looks nice, many pkgs, no-systemd - that's just what i wanted and now i can proceed to migrate my main machine to devuan :-) | 19:06 |
| _abc_ | Hello. Been tinkering with linuxcnc-wheezy-2.7 live .iso today. Made a cnc machine move with it. But it is totally sucky. In the past, I talked about devuan on #linuxcnc, to no avail, they stayed with wheezy so far. Wheezy if of course systemd free. | 19:07 |
| _abc_ | Is there an interest in pushing devuan as the next live disk support for linuxcnc? | 19:08 |
| gour | however, as predicted, xfce's weather-plugin needs update since the current one (even in ceres) does not work | 19:08 |
| _abc_ | linuxcnc has special kernel build requirements and the real time tasks in it have a REAL problem with something optimized to consume as many resources in the kernel as possible, which systemd is. I believe that there is a future in that direction for devuan. | 19:08 |
| _abc_ | I asked people who run linuxcnc self-compiled, on systemd enabled systems, and they seem to think it works. | 19:09 |
| _abc_ | That is of course not a benchmark, I assume, with good reason, and 100% hindsight, that sub-par systems will have trouble running systemd and real time tasks in parallel. | 19:09 |
| _abc_ | [debate] | 19:10 |
| gour | can anyone suggest some EU mirror for devuan packages? | 19:23 |
| gnarface | there is only 13 mirrors | 19:24 |
| gnarface | deb.devuan.org is a round-robin pointing to all of them | 19:24 |
| gnarface | just go down the list and traceroute all of them till you find the closest one and use it directly, if you want | 19:24 |
| gour | is it the same to use ceres or sid in sources.list? | 19:26 |
| gnarface | ceres is unstable, and corresponds to sid | 19:26 |
| gnarface | they are not technically identical | 19:26 |
| gnarface | so it would be wrong to say they are the same | 19:26 |
| gnarface | they are not interchangeable | 19:27 |
| gnarface | don't switch back and forth | 19:27 |
| gnarface | but you can probably successfully get away with it if you're lucky | 19:27 |
| gnarface | i got away with it | 19:27 |
| gnarface | once | 19:27 |
| gour | ok, i use ceres now...and doing apt-upgrade | 19:28 |
| gnarface | you might still run into any of the problems normally plaguing sid | 19:29 |
| gour | ok, so far i like it (devuan)...some problem that my wired connection does not work - forgot which firmware have to install, so using wifi, but i can in the meantime start with installing on my desktop machine | 19:30 |
| _abc_ | gour: 90% your ethernet depends on a module which is non free or not loaded. | 19:31 |
| gnarface | the firmware package names haven't changed from Debian, so if their wiki mentions the device in question, that package name is still the right one | 19:31 |
| gnarface | not all devices work, that's not a given, mind you | 19:31 |
| _abc_ | enabling non-free in the dpkg sources should bring it in | 19:31 |
| _abc_ | Unless you have a very weird or very new ethernet adapter it will work. | 19:32 |
| gnarface | (but any devices that work in Debian should also work in Devuan, as the kernels are identical) | 19:32 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: the systemd components load into the kernel as modules? | 19:32 |
| gnarface | _abc_: so far as i know, the only devices relying on systemd so far are some temperature sensors and the Steam controller | 19:33 |
| negev | hi, i'm on beowulf/ceres and want to install an older kernel, specifically 4.15, what's the easiest way to do that? | 19:33 |
| gnarface | _abc_: sorry, not sure if that's the answer to the question you're actually asking... but to clarify, in most cases, drivers have nothing to do with systemd. | 19:33 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: systemd logger component is in the kernel afair? It is one of the items I wrestled with hard in the past. Dr. Knopper has an article on that. | 19:33 |
| * negev shudders visibly at the thought of lennart&co writing device drivers | 19:34 | |
| _abc_ | Sure, nothing about drivers and systemd, except systemd is very good and optimized to print all errors, repeating and all, from drivers, and it does this with amazing speed. | 19:34 |
| gnarface | _abc_: i don't even know that much about it. i was under the impression that all systemd's stuff is primarily in userspace | 19:34 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: nope. | 19:34 |
| gour | _abc_: i've old netbook, let me restart it | 19:34 |
| _abc_ | BUT someone kicked their butts out of core kernel code, they have modules iirc | 19:34 |
| gour | apt-upgrade can't fetch some pkgs... | 19:35 |
| gnarface | gour: "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" | 19:35 |
| gnarface | gour: (always update before you upgrade, but expect that transient package problems are normal in unstable) | 19:36 |
| gour | gnarface: i did that | 19:38 |
| gnarface | gour: deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres main | 19:39 |
| gnarface | deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres main | 19:39 |
| gour | strange, nm-applet shows that my wired connection is "device not managed" | 19:39 |
| gnarface | do you have these lines in your sources.list ? | 19:39 |
| gour | i only have deb line with additional 'non-free contrib' | 19:40 |
| gnarface | but you are using deb.devuan.org for the hostname, right? | 19:40 |
| * gour nods | 19:41 | |
| gnarface | alright, /msg me the error output, i'll help you decipher it | 19:41 |
| gnarface | probably it is an issue with unstable that you'll just have to wait to clear up, but it could be some local package conflict too | 19:42 |
| gour | gnarface: now it is updating...maybe some network error was due...let me see | 19:42 |
| gour | i rememmebr it was complaining about missing pkgs, e.g. yelp-something | 19:42 |
| gnarface | well, remember deb.devuan.org is a dns round-robin, so if you retried and it worked on the second try, that just means you got unlucky the first time and caught a repo currently being updated | 19:42 |
| gnarface | that will become less common as there are more repos added | 19:43 |
| gour | still, i wonder about the issue with my ethernet connection...usually it is the other way around...although i did install via ethernet | 19:43 |
| gnarface | there are some new intel ethernet devices out there that don't work in the 4.9 kernel ascii uses. the driver is there i think but needs to be patched. the 4.18/4.19+whatever kernel in backports/unstable should have the patch though | 19:44 |
| gnarface | is it possible you updated to ceres but are still using the old kernel? | 19:45 |
| gnarface | "uname -a" will tell you the running kernel | 19:45 |
| gour | my netbook is >5yrs old, even more...lenovo e125 | 19:46 |
| gnarface | oh hmm | 19:46 |
| gour | 4.9.0 | 19:46 |
| gnarface | well | 19:46 |
| gnarface | that kernel is about that old too | 19:46 |
| gnarface | so yea, update the kernel and see if that fixes the ethernet | 19:46 |
| ashleyk | :D | 19:46 |
| gour | i was using tht machine with 3.x kernels, iirc | 19:46 |
| gnarface | regressions aren't unheard-of either | 19:47 |
| gour | ok, waiting for apt-upgrade to finish first | 19:47 |
| gnarface | there may be other things in unstable that kernel is too old for as well | 19:48 |
| gour | but i'm sure everything is going to to be sorted out... | 19:48 |
| gnarface | nothing is a guarantee | 19:48 |
| gour | well, i used 4.19 on the same machine (manjaro) | 19:48 |
| gnarface | and that one worked? | 19:48 |
| gour | yep | 19:49 |
| gnarface | should be fine then | 19:49 |
| gnarface | is it amd64 or i386 hardware? | 19:49 |
| gour | amd64 | 19:49 |
| gnarface | install 'linux-image-amd64' and 'linux-headers-amd64' | 19:49 |
| gnarface | then you'll get the kernel updates with everything else | 19:49 |
| gnarface | (otherwise the kernel will never be updated unless manually requested) | 19:49 |
| gour | in case of that xfce4-weather-plugin, devuan has to wait for debian's updates? | 19:52 |
| gnarface | yes, though there may be exceptions | 19:52 |
| gour | now i see that 0.9.0 is in debian's experimental, although sid is still at 0.8.10, while arch/manjaro have 0.8.11 | 19:53 |
| gnarface | my experience with debian experimental is that it's usually worth it to wait until it makes it to unstable | 19:53 |
| gour | 0.8.11 is the one which restores functionality of the plugin due to support for new weather provider | 19:54 |
| gnarface | if you try to build it yourself, you might find out why it's not been updated yet in debian | 19:54 |
| gnarface | that's the way this type of thing has usually gone for me anyway | 19:55 |
| gour | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=xfce4-weather-plugin;dist=unstable | 19:56 |
| gour | installing 4.19.28 kernel now... | 20:00 |
| gnarface | gour: i probably should have reminded you to take a backup first | 20:07 |
| ashleyk | is there a backdown? | 20:26 |
| ashleyk | maybe it would be frontdown i guess | 20:26 |
| gnarface | that's a clever idea for a name | 20:26 |
| ashleyk | name for a yoga move | 20:28 |
| gour | gnarface: actually wired connection does work, but the icon is misleading...however, the desktop install will probably have to wait for tomorrow | 20:33 |
| tuxd3v | gour: you set the iface to eth0 in the configs? | 20:36 |
| gour | tuxd3v: yes, i did | 20:48 |
| tuxd3v | your ifconfig what tells you? | 20:49 |
| gour | tuxd3v: http://paste.debian.net/1077017 | 20:53 |
| gour | according to hwinfo, the driver should be atl1c | 20:55 |
| tuxd3v | gour: you have the interface configured? | 20:56 |
| tuxd3v | https://paste2.org/hwBeEOH9 | 20:56 |
| gour | tuxd3v: i've in network-manager applet only? | 20:57 |
| tuxd3v | I though that you had wicd | 20:57 |
| gour | and the lines you posted are in /etc/network as well | 20:58 |
| tuxd3v | aplet | 20:58 |
| tuxd3v | if you do | 20:58 |
| tuxd3v | ifdown eth0 | 20:58 |
| tuxd3v | and then ifup eth0 | 20:58 |
| tuxd3v | it does obtain ip? | 20:58 |
| tuxd3v | mayne you don't have dhcp client installed.. | 20:59 |
| tuxd3v | *maybe* | 20:59 |
| gour | it obtained ip via dhcp | 21:00 |
| gour | but it does not reflect in nm-applet which still holded wifi connection | 21:00 |
| fsmithred | don't use a network manager (of any name) and /etc/network/interfaces. Use one or the other. | 21:01 |
| gour | i get ip, but nm-applet still shows as there are no active connections | 21:01 |
| fsmithred | ...not both. | 21:01 |
| gour | but when i do 'ifdown eth0' it says that connection has been disconnected | 21:02 |
| gour | so, some problem with nm-applet not detcting when eth0 is up | 21:02 |
| tuxd3v | its correct | 21:02 |
| tuxd3v | maybe becasue it his expecting enspx thing has a name..? | 21:03 |
| gour | hmm...i do not recall such behaviour on other distros | 21:03 |
| tuxd3v | yes there are anny outthere | 21:03 |
| tuxd3v | whith recent renamings of interfaces | 21:03 |
| gour | aha...right, on my desktop wired is enp6s0 | 21:04 |
| tuxd3v | yes | 21:04 |
| gour | any idea how to fix it? | 21:04 |
| tuxd3v | thats the problem.. | 21:04 |
| tuxd3v | you need to add a thing to /etc/default/grub | 21:04 |
| tuxd3v | so that it doesn't rename eth0 | 21:04 |
| tuxd3v | hold on | 21:04 |
| tuxd3v | add: | 21:06 |
| tuxd3v | GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="net.ifnames=0 biosdevname=0" | 21:06 |
| fsmithred | eudev should default to the old names | 21:06 |
| tuxd3v | then update-grub | 21:07 |
| tuxd3v | then | 21:07 |
| tuxd3v | reboot | 21:07 |
| fsmithred | use net.ifnames=1 to use the new names with eudev in devuan | 21:07 |
| tuxd3v | via eudev is also pissible, but you need to create rules for it | 21:07 |
| fsmithred | what is the interface called when you run 'ip a'? | 21:08 |
| fsmithred | ip a | 21:08 |
| fsmithred | what I described is the default in devuan | 21:09 |
| fsmithred | if gour is getting some other behavior, then something is wrong. | 21:09 |
| fsmithred | was this a fresh devuan install, or a migration from debian? | 21:09 |
| tuxd3v | I don't use network-manager | 21:10 |
| tuxd3v | I don trust too much on it | 21:10 |
| tuxd3v | but there are lots of people using it.. | 21:10 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: i inferred he upgraded to ceres from sid | 21:11 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: er, from sid to ceres, i mean | 21:11 |
| ashleyk | fsmithred, i saw devuan name a usb ethernet as a really long name, but eth and wlan are fine, fwiw | 21:11 |
| fsmithred | then maybe udev is still running instead of eudev | 21:12 |
| fsmithred | thanks ashleyk, I haven't tried my usb dongle in beowulf yet. Good idea. | 21:12 |
| gnarface | on ceres with udev i'm still getting the old style names, but i think that might be due to my old /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules file | 21:13 |
| gnarface | (which i've manually corrected before) | 21:13 |
| fsmithred | I'm getting old names with new beowulf installs | 21:13 |
| fsmithred | same version is in ceres unless it changed in the last week | 21:14 |
| fsmithred | nap time for me. bbl. | 21:15 |
| _abc_ | What is beowulf in this context please? | 21:26 |
| gnarface | _abc_: devuan testing; corresponds to debian buster | 21:31 |
| gour | tuxd3v: that helped. i put net.ifnames=1 biosdevname=0 in the grub and re-created old connection and nm-applet is now behaving properly. thanks a lot for helping me out? | 21:31 |
| gour | fsmithred: by default, i was getting eth0 for 'ip a' | 21:31 |
| gour | all in all i'm very happy with devuan and even more with the help here! | 21:32 |
| gour | on manjaro one almost never gets any reply and from the past i recall that #arch was so off-topic that i could not stand there as well :-) | 21:32 |
| gour | tomorrow i'll do migration of my desktop to devuan and say goodbye to manjaro | 21:33 |
| tuxd3v | gour: i am glad you succeded | 21:33 |
| tuxd3v | ;) | 21:33 |
| gour | and then i do not see a need for any other distro for a long time...debian+non-systemd is winning combo | 21:33 |
| tuxd3v | gour: can you make a ifconfig? | 21:34 |
| gour | atm, i have problem with thunar's automounting which was working in one way or the other for ages, but now one has to fiddle with so many systemd-services | 21:34 |
| gour | tuxd3v: you mean to check default interfaces with ifconfig or do you mean to skip over nm? | 21:35 |
| gnarface | gour: there's a couple of things that might be causing that automount problem, but i don't know thunar well. check to make sure you have udisks2 installed and running, first | 21:36 |
| gour | gnarface: see https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gvfs/issues/390 | 21:36 |
| tuxd3v | gour: to check interfaces | 21:37 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 21:37 |
| tuxd3v | maybe you need gvfs-fuse | 21:39 |
| gnarface | gour: that is clearly about a systemd distro, but i note that they also diagnose the problem as related to udisks2 not running | 21:39 |
| tuxd3v | also for thunar, the extras | 21:39 |
| tuxd3v | gour: thunar-volman | 21:40 |
| gnarface | could also be a permissions issue | 21:40 |
| tuxd3v | if you have them installed already, force a reinstall | 21:41 |
| gnarface | maybe the wrong choice of elogind or consolekit combined with xorg not running as suid root | 21:41 |
| tuxd3v | 'apt-get install --reinstall gvfs-fuse thunar-volman' | 21:42 |
| gnarface | anyway i don't use it because automount freaks me out, but i've heard of it it breaking down at a couple different places before | 21:42 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: do you know if the kernel cli option persistence-label= is obeyed in all cases? I see cases where this is not so, and reading source seems to prove me right? | 21:42 |
| gour | this automount issue is on manjaro, not devuan :-D | 21:44 |
| tuxd3v | gour: so you now should be with ensXsY interface right? | 21:51 |
| tuxd3v | since you disabled the dell attempt for persistent names, and activated the udev one.. | 21:52 |
| negev | hi is there a guide to compiling arbitrary kernels for devuan? | 22:03 |
| negev | i need 4.15 specifically | 22:03 |
| negev | got it from kernel.org but it'd be nice if there was a way to automatically configure all the normal options that are present in devuan | 22:04 |
| tuxd3v | negev: I don't know about a better way | 22:07 |
| tuxd3v | but you will certainly need the /boot/config-* file you are using | 22:08 |
| gour | tuxd3v: correct | 22:08 |
| tuxd3v | get apply whats is knew | 22:08 |
| tuxd3v | gour: nice | 22:10 |
| negev | thanks | 22:10 |
| negev | how can i find out what kernel.org source the 4.15.0-45 package for ubuntu is based on? | 22:11 |
| buZz | just a guess, but look in ubuntu's kernel source repository to see the original commits? | 22:13 |
| _abc_ | fsmithred: what is a good way to test live iso / refractausb images in an emulator? I've had qemu lock up on me after booting images and worse. The images were okay, booted cleanly on other machines. | 22:18 |
| _abc_ | vbox? | 22:19 |
| gnarface | _abc_: qemu maybe you just didn't give it enough ram? | 22:32 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: the real system runs in 512MB real ram, I gave qemu 768 then 1024, still not nice | 22:32 |
| _abc_ | tbh it was a linuxcnc wheezy based realtime linux image (the iso from linuxcnc.org) | 22:33 |
| gnarface | have you successfully tested anything in qemu yet? | 22:33 |
| KatolaZ | _abc_: what is the problem you experience? | 22:36 |
| gnarface | negev: make sure you can't get by with the kernel in ascii-backports... it's 4.18 or 4.19 now i think, but it's unlikely you actually need 4.15 that specifically. plus, the kernel.org source will be missing all of debian security/stability/compatibility patches | 22:38 |
| _abc_ | KatolaZ: boots to gui (slowly), then when the rtai part is to start up it freezes. Axis/linuxcnc. I asked in #qemu, no answers so far. | 22:38 |
| gnarface | _abc_: tried it with -enable-kvm ? | 22:40 |
| KatolaZ | _abc_: -enable-kvm | 22:41 |
| _abc_ | I do not have kvm here, the old cpu has it locked out, I have it on other machines. | 22:41 |
| gnarface | _abc_: intel lies about this. it's actually a motherboard feature. all their cpus have it. | 22:42 |
| _abc_ | I tried various cpu's from qemu's list. | 22:42 |
| _abc_ | gnarface: depends how old and depends if the bios locked it out | 22:42 |
| _abc_ | My cpu on the latop is a virtualization-less one. | 22:42 |
| gnarface | _abc_: well, do make sure that it's not just turned off in the bios | 22:43 |
| _abc_ | if it is, you can't turn it back on | 22:43 |
| _abc_ | It's not an option gnarface, the cpu does not have it. | 22:43 |
| _abc_ | Old laptop, period. | 22:43 |
| _abc_ | Anyway, I'd like to know why it locks up with very high load. | 22:43 |
| gnarface | it's the GPU usage | 22:43 |
| _abc_ | I could debug interrupt it in the monitor and look where it spends it's time | 22:44 |
| gnarface | 3d is gonna bottleneck it | 22:44 |
| _abc_ | No gpu. | 22:44 |
| _abc_ | It does not get to the gui of axis. | 22:44 |
| gnarface | well anything that needs DMA heavily is gonna bottleneck it | 22:44 |
| gnarface | but typically it's 3d rendering that it's most obvious with | 22:44 |
| _abc_ | I don't think it uses dma at all. I've run axis on 1.5GHz celerons with 512MB ram from 15 years ago and it works | 22:45 |
| gnarface | hmm. same version of the software and everything? | 22:45 |
| _abc_ | Pretty much yes. | 22:45 |
| _abc_ | It's just wireframe rendering, a 486 could do it. | 22:45 |
| gnarface | keep in mind that's not the same as a 486 doing it in a VM | 22:45 |
| gnarface | the VM adds its own overhead that the hardware vt-d/iommu thing mitigates | 22:46 |
| _abc_ | I know but there are limits to how bad things can get. | 22:47 |
| gnarface | well it could slow down so much it seems frozen | 22:47 |
| gnarface | that seems perfectly reasonable to me | 22:47 |
| gnarface | maybe try giving it even more ram | 22:47 |
| _abc_ | I've let it be for an hour. That is excessive with fans on max. | 22:47 |
| _abc_ | Ram is clearly not the problem. | 22:47 |
| _abc_ | I think it tries to init some hardware in ways which qemu does not implement. | 22:48 |
| _abc_ | Specifically timers. | 22:48 |
| gnarface | you sure you didn't leave out any other hardware it needs? i seem to remember someone having a similar problem until realizing that the software was hanging waiting for an audio device they forgot to specify on the qemu command-line | 22:48 |
| _abc_ | The real time task thread in rtai linux uses timers exclusively. | 22:48 |
| _abc_ | Nope, no gnarface. On the contrary, it runs better with the crud removed. | 22:49 |
| _abc_ | Default debian live boots bring in the kitchen sink. cpusd, nfsd, bluetoothd, avahi, exim, the works. | 22:49 |
| _abc_ | I have a script to kill that crap off upon install, leaving only ssh | 22:49 |
| ashleyk | i said devuan to someone and they said devjose | 22:55 |
| ashleyk | >_< | 22:55 |
| ashleyk | maybe i said it wrong | 22:57 |
| tuxd3v | Hello Guys, | 22:58 |
| tuxd3v | I have a strange problem with my colour syntax schemes.. | 22:58 |
| ashleyk | HOLOLA | 22:58 |
| tuxd3v | I am in xfce | 22:59 |
| tuxd3v | I don't know...I can't describe it.. | 23:02 |
| tuxd3v | I passed several days trying to activate this theme: | 23:02 |
| tuxd3v | https://github.com/tuxd3v/ilynx | 23:02 |
| tuxd3v | I couldn't | 23:02 |
| tuxd3v | it never apeared in mousepad | 23:03 |
| tuxd3v | know that I was fustrated with it.. | 23:03 |
| tuxd3v | I tried again.. | 23:03 |
| ashleyk | did you check permissions? | 23:03 |
| tuxd3v | And sudenly it apears has a option.. | 23:03 |
| tuxd3v | its ok now! | 23:03 |
| ashleyk | @_@ | 23:03 |
| tuxd3v | I can't describe it. | 23:03 |
| tuxd3v | What I sufered arround this theme maybe more than a week | 23:04 |
| ashleyk | smoke less weed! | 23:04 |
| tuxd3v | root@desktop0:~# ls -l /usr/share/gtksourceview-2.0/styles/ilynx.xml | 23:04 |
| tuxd3v | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7762 Apr 10 22:00 /usr/share/gtksourceview-2.0/styles/ilynx.xml | 23:04 |
| tuxd3v | its exactly like I had it before! | 23:04 |
| ashleyk | you probably had to restart xfce | 23:05 |
| ashleyk | silly | 23:05 |
| tuxd3v | Now mousepad, starts to be something very aceptable for me.. | 23:05 |
| tuxd3v | probably | 23:05 |
| tuxd3v | or create some caches or so | 23:05 |
| ashleyk | ye | 23:05 |
| ashleyk | rm -rf ~/.config is good too, or its something like that....i dont really use desktops | 23:06 |
| tuxd3v | Well, now I am feeling myself a duck.. | 23:06 |
| tuxd3v | I am sorry, for trouble you guys about this..it was because I coudn't continue like that.. | 23:06 |
| tuxd3v | well...it could be then a problem between the chair and the keyboard... | 23:07 |
| ashleyk | wtf you need mousepad for | 23:07 |
| tuxd3v | what else | 23:07 |
| ashleyk | xterm + nano! | 23:07 |
| tuxd3v | I use mousepad, because its like leafpad, but with some nice things :) | 23:07 |
| ashleyk | i use notepad++ | 23:08 |
| tuxd3v | I program all day in Vi | 23:08 |
| tuxd3v | but in my house, I like to have a desktop application | 23:08 |
| tuxd3v | you know, commit an abuse from time to time | 23:08 |
| tuxd3v | :D | 23:08 |
| ashleyk | i would NEVER | 23:08 |
| tuxd3v | apart fron that, I noticed that gtksourceview is still not able to recognize, files by their sheebang | 23:09 |
| tuxd3v | crazy | 23:09 |
| ashleyk | only X i use is Xvfb and x11vnc, if i have to run graphical app remotely | 23:09 |
| tuxd3v | I don't use graphical tools at all, in the work | 23:09 |
| tuxd3v | only the shell | 23:10 |
| tuxd3v | but in my house, I like to have mousepad | 23:10 |
| ashleyk | i just use windows on pc and laptop because i have enough putties for everything | 23:10 |
| tuxd3v | its low resources since its leafpad based.. | 23:10 |
| tuxd3v | but its also a problem beccause its NOT multithread | 23:11 |
| tuxd3v | :( | 23:11 |
| tuxd3v | but the problem is.. | 23:11 |
| tuxd3v | Why GTKSourceView still, is not able to identify a file by its sheebang.. | 23:11 |
| tuxd3v | which is que equivalent to the Magic number in a binary file | 23:12 |
| tuxd3v | que ->*the* | 23:12 |
| tuxd3v | they had a bug open for more than 10 years and still each time you save your file...you loose your language syntax.. | 23:13 |
| tuxd3v | and you need to go again select it by hand...crazy | 23:13 |
| tuxd3v | ant text file that is to be edited via GTKSourceView should read the first line | 23:14 |
| tuxd3v | and check what kind of file it his.. | 23:15 |
| tuxd3v | The command 'file' do that | 23:16 |
| tuxd3v | I don't know if anyone else solved this problem yet? | 23:19 |
| tuxd3v | or if anyone else has this problem.. | 23:20 |
| gnarface | i just use emacs | 23:20 |
| tuxd3v | I don't know a solution for it.. | 23:20 |
| tuxd3v | I don't want to use file extensions | 23:20 |
| tuxd3v | since they missrepresent what interpreter will run the code for real.. | 23:21 |
| tuxd3v | I tried emacs some 15-20 years ago | 23:23 |
| tuxd3v | but I never got deep into it | 23:23 |
| tuxd3v | I now that it his very powerfull | 23:23 |
| tuxd3v | emacs has some nice graphical environment? | 23:28 |
| tuxd3v | I don't try it for a long long time | 23:28 |
| tuxd3v | mousepad its nice, but if it was multithread, it would be awesome | 23:29 |
| tuxd3v | and a litle more things.. | 23:29 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 23:29 |
| tuxd3v | like vertical selection | 23:29 |
| ashleyk | multi threaded? | 23:30 |
| ashleyk | why does that matter | 23:30 |
| ashleyk | you mean tabbed interface? | 23:30 |
| tuxd3v | but that its a scintilla thing, and not related with notapad++ also | 23:30 |
| tuxd3v | no I mean multy thread | 23:30 |
| ashleyk | what benefit would that add | 23:30 |
| tuxd3v | that mathers a lot, when you are with keys to the righ or to the left to viw outside window | 23:31 |
| tuxd3v | try to do that in a thread only application | 23:31 |
| tuxd3v | for example in ARM devices and you will see | 23:31 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 23:31 |
| ashleyk | im not sure what you mean | 23:31 |
| ashleyk | when you are with keys? | 23:32 |
| tuxd3v | if you move the cursos outside window were you are working on... you are like 1 second to move to next key | 23:32 |
| ashleyk | grab your car keys and look outside your window? | 23:32 |
| tuxd3v | ?? | 23:33 |
| ashleyk | im not sure about moving to the florida keys | 23:33 |
| tuxd3v | cursor | 23:33 |
| ashleyk | i need more than a second to decide | 23:34 |
| tuxd3v | well that is very anoying | 23:34 |
| tuxd3v | the unique option you have is 'home' and 'end' keys | 23:34 |
| tuxd3v | but still you have to wait some 2 seconds.. | 23:34 |
| ashleyk | that doesnt make sense | 23:35 |
| tuxd3v | each time you want to see code outside scope view | 23:35 |
| tuxd3v | try it for yourself | 23:35 |
| tuxd3v | Not in My Xeon Desktop ofcourse | 23:35 |
| tuxd3v | but in a ARM device ho yeah | 23:36 |
| ashleyk | so you mean you click on mousepad then press home, and it takes seconds to do it?/ | 23:36 |
| tuxd3v | no | 23:36 |
| tuxd3v | mousepad is a aplication | 23:36 |
| tuxd3v | graphical one | 23:36 |
| tuxd3v | you have the cursor in a line | 23:37 |
| tuxd3v | and you want to see the end of that line for example | 23:37 |
| tuxd3v | if you use the right or left key, you are done..you could take some 10-20 seconds to acomplish that | 23:37 |
| ashleyk | hmm | 23:38 |
| tuxd3v | so the best alternative is home and end keys which even so, takes you some 2 seconds | 23:38 |
| ashleyk | its probably font rendering and video card related | 23:38 |
| ashleyk | not single threaded problem | 23:38 |
| tuxd3v | well | 23:38 |
| ashleyk | also | 23:38 |
| ashleyk | your colors could be part of it | 23:38 |
| ashleyk | :p | 23:39 |
| ashleyk | try black and white only | 23:39 |
| tuxd3v | It could be rendering problem, yes, but its not only rendering problem, because for example using a basec Lua text editor, I could go from beguining to the end of the line, almost in a blink of an eye | 23:39 |
| tuxd3v | and this editor is multithed | 23:39 |
| tuxd3v | multithread | 23:40 |
| tuxd3v | basec -> basic | 23:40 |
| tuxd3v | mousepad is single threaded | 23:41 |
| ashleyk | i dont think that making it multithreaded would fix that problem | 23:42 |
| tuxd3v | I think that maybe fix | 23:43 |
| ashleyk | no | 23:43 |
| tuxd3v | 2 threads | 23:43 |
| ashleyk | if its slow with one thread it will be slow with t2 | 23:43 |
| tuxd3v | 1 for dealing with all stuff and the other do be able to use keyboard controls and so.. | 23:43 |
| ashleyk | lol | 23:44 |
| ashleyk | go tell #xfce that | 23:44 |
| tuxd3v | Nobody until know ported mousepad to multithread invironment | 23:44 |
| ashleyk | its not that easy | 23:45 |
| tuxd3v | they are used to use it in x86, which is plenty of power , even with one thread, so they don't feel the need for it.. | 23:45 |
| tuxd3v | I know that its not so easy :) | 23:45 |
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