libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2019-10-04

golinuxNot connecting00:00
MinceRi'll see if i can find a copy and rehost it00:02
MinceRhttps://files.catbox.moe/d5mgrn.jpg00:04
masonhaha00:22
tom_How do I make it so that switch-user and shutdown is not greyed-out in XFCE?03:08
tom_is there a missing library or something?03:08
gnarfacetom_: probably03:10
tom_do you know which one?03:10
gnarfaceit's not the same on every install.  it's either polkit or consolekit, i think03:11
tom_is it elogind?03:11
gnarfaceand they're not safe together;  if they're both installed, neither works.03:11
gnarfaceoh03:11
gnarfaceit could be elogind too i think03:11
gnarfaceit has to match your graphical login daemon03:11
gnarfaceit's mentioned in the release notes03:11
gnarfaceyou're right03:12
gnarfaceit's consolekit or elogind03:13
gnarfacehttps://files.roundr.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt03:13
gnarfacehere03:13
gnarfacelook under "### Session management and policykit backends"03:13
gnarfacesee if fixing that up fixes it03:13
tom_i'm just using XDM for graphical login03:18
gnarfaceoh.  i have no idea then03:18
gnarfacehmm03:18
masontom_: How are you starting xdm from .xsession?03:19
tom_i don't. xdm brings up X03:20
masontom_: Um.03:20
gnarfacemason: it's just another display manager, but not mentioned in the release notes03:20
tom_then a user logs in via XDM and XDM starts whatever their ~/.xsession says to do03:20
masongnarface: I'm well aware. I typo'd. meant, how are you bringing up xfce?03:20
masontom_: exec ck-launch-session startxfce4 at a guess03:21
masontry that03:21
masonBut also tell us how you're trying to launch it now.03:21
tom_right now I'm just using the default way debian does it when you install xfce03:23
tom_let me relog03:23
tom_brb03:23
masontom_: What's the last line in your .xsession? I didn't think xdm would launch a defined session.03:24
masonThat's more a lightdm trick.03:24
tom_huh, just installing elogind and relogging now makes power state options work but switch-user is still greyed out03:24
masonWell, that's a step forward then.03:25
masontom_: Anyway, we can dig in more if you don't get it working.03:29
masontom_: Also, if you're going to use a full desktop environment, it wouldn't be awful to run lightdm or... golinux likes another one... slim?? I don't remember.03:30
tom_I normally never use that feature and I understand it's got something to do with poetteringware03:30
yetilightdm cann offer xdmcp and vnx access too03:30
yetivnC03:31
yetinice to have03:31
gnarfacetom_: is it running as root?03:31
gnarfacetom_: or through some suid-wrapper?03:31
tom_Why else is a display manager supposed to do on a modern linux system other then present a username and password form?03:31
tom_gnarface, is what running as root? x and xdm? yes03:32
masonyeti: Does xdm do something explicit to support vnc? That also seems like a newer trick.03:32
tom_xdm doesn't have anything to do with vnc03:32
yetixdm can offer xdmcp logins03:32
yetibut thats all I think03:32
tom_xdm is the plain old X graphical login of various unixes including bsd03:32
yetiusing XTerminals was fun... decades ago03:33
masonAh, just read about xdmcp. Never used it, didn't know XDM could do it. Nifty.03:33
yetiI thought that would be the main rason to use xdm these days03:33
masonI use it for memory footprint and simplicity, generally. And tradition.03:34
yetitoday probybpy xpra is the cool kid of that genre03:34
yeti     probably03:34
masonxpra?03:35
yetiremote access to singl X applications or the whole desktop03:35
yetiwith sound and printer rdirection03:35
masonAnyway. I stick with XDM because it reminds me of the Ultrix boxes on which I cut my teeth. Tradition! I also keep xv around to set a background.03:35
yetixv was nice... but I'm not much into 2D or more...03:36
* yeti mostly lives in XTerms03:36
gnarfacei like xdm too, but i'm using it with blackbox... so this isn't a feature my window manager had in the first place, really.  i shut it down by terminal...03:36
masonThat's where I'm new-age. I can't live without urxvt.03:36
yeti:-)03:36
masonopenbox here, although I want to move to fluxbox at some point03:37
* yeti wants to have the tek4014 option03:37
yetimy nostalgy03:37
masonheh03:37
yetiI nearly never use it... but wjo knows... that may change tomorrow03:38
masonI did run lightdm briefly under Debian because I could make it exactly match a Plymouth theme, but Devuan doesn't seem to ship plymouth that I can see.03:38
tom_XDM is the login manager for DEC systems, OpenBSD, xenix, etc. I just don't have a need to replace it because it's worked perfectly for decades and is very very simple and small03:38
masontom_: did you try the ck-launch-session trick in .xsession? I remember needing that at some point when I was playing with DEs.03:39
tom_https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Xdm_Screenshot.png03:39
masonThe stipple! \o/03:40
tom_mason, I'm trying to find out where the system xsession file for xfce is03:40
fsmithredtom_, what do you mean by system xsession file?03:40
masontom_: there's an xfce4-session package - so I guess, dpkg -L xfce4-session03:41
tom_https://forums.freebsd.org/attachments/capture-2-png.381203:41
masonOpenBSD's X is a bit of a fork, though.03:41
tom_https://itservices.usc.edu/files/2013/11/xdm.jpg03:42
masonThat one's not xdm, it's gdm.03:42
fsmithredyou're looking for a graphical login screen?03:42
masonfsmithred: He wants a default session like what the newer display managers offer.03:43
fsmithredwouldn't the easy solution be to install a display manager? I did come in late, so maybe I'm missing something.03:43
masonfsmithred: He has XDM, and that'll work. Just needs to figure out the invocation. I offered one, but it might not be right.03:44
fsmithredto start an xfce session, startxfce4 is the command03:44
fsmithredbut i don't think you need to tell xdm about that03:45
fsmithredit should just work03:45
masonI offered up ck-launch-session startxfce4. The ck-launch-session does some magic.03:45
masonfsmithred: This notion of it just working without being invoked by .xsession has me curious.03:46
tom_yeah still poking around /etc/X11 give me a second03:46
fsmithredI probably haven't tried xdm since jessie03:46
fsmithredI think we did some minimal theming for it03:46
masonfsmithred: Do you know why we don't ship Plymouth?03:47
fsmithredtom_, are you in ascii or beowulf?03:47
tom_ascii03:47
tom_ appears to be a shell script not just a simple script saying where xfce is and how to run it03:47
tom_ /etc/X11/Xsession.d/55xfce4-session03:47
tom_prepends cat /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager03:48
tom_but that's another shell script03:48
tom_hmm03:49
tom_>for OPT in $*03:49
tom_so it does the CK if the OPT variable is whatever $* means in sh03:50
masontom_: I'd still try what I recommended for kicks.03:51
masonYou have to mistrust the scaffolding sometimes.03:51
tom_sure, but your suggestion is just a temporary fix. eventually I'll need to do it globally not per-user03:52
tom_but let me try restarting XDM from init and rebooting. there's probably a daemon or something that just needs to be reloaded since installing elogind03:53
tom_and I don't care about uptime on this machine. brb03:53
masonHrm.03:54
masonNot thinking of what beyond elogind itself you'd want. I'd love to hear the outcome anyway.03:55
* tom_ sigh03:57
fsmithredI've got elogind, libpam-elogind and the backends and I'm not getting a proper session with xdm03:58
fsmithredI'm in beowulf03:58
tom_maybe there's just too much scaffolding03:58
fsmithredthere are some empty files in /etc/X11/xdm/ but I don't know what to put in them03:58
gnarfaceis it possible xdm just doesn't support it?03:58
masonI'd try lightdm be comparison. It doesn't all the CK goop that xdm tends not to.03:58
masons/be/for/03:59
fsmithredxdm claims to be highly configurable and has a -session option04:00
fsmithredit might be possible04:00
fsmithredbut slim, lightdm or lxdm would be a lot easier04:00
masonI don't really get what DEs offer any more, honestly.04:01
fsmithredreboot/shutdown with a mouse click04:01
masonAlright, there's that.04:01
fsmithredeasy mount/unmount removable drives04:01
masoneasy until udisks2 rears its head04:02
fsmithredand something else that I don't recall right now04:02
masonpoint-and-click launching I guess, for folks who don't enjoy typing.04:03
tom_it's not really that04:05
tom_I could easily implement that with a desktop shortcut button and sudo04:05
tom_it's the ability to suspend a session on the physical CRT, then login as a different user04:05
tom_still have the other user's proccess running04:05
fsmithredstartx -- :104:06
masonI'd go with screen for that.04:06
fsmithredyou can run startx in screen?04:06
gnarfacetom_: i asked what user xdm is running as, but i forgot to ask what user Xorg is running as04:06
masonfsmithred: No, what other than a web browser, what's worth running that can't run in screen? :P04:07
golinuxLots of beautiful colors04:07
masons/what/but/ wow, I can't type04:07
koollman_mason: snes emulator :)04:08
masonkoollman_: If you need to move that between xservers, there's a problem. :P04:08
koollman_it's tricky, but doable (although keeping any kind of hardware acceleration is hell)04:09
tom_office employee one ends shift, but wants to leave work running to continue the next day04:09
tom_so she locks hers session04:09
yetixpra04:09
tom_office employee 2 sits down at desk and logs in with their own creates and creates a new session04:10
masontom_: Alright, that's compelling.04:10
masonAlthough... Give everyone their own computer?04:10
tom_replace office employee with family computer04:10
yetifat servers and XTerminals04:10
yetior similar technology04:11
koollman_not that I've used xvfb and xmove to keep playing on the same emulator at work and home... no... right :)04:11
tom_er, sorry. replace office environment with household with a family computer04:11
golinuxThis channel is turning into some sort of sick joke.04:11
gnarfacetom_: is Xorg running as root?04:11
tom_gnarface, yes04:11
golinuxI keep thinking I'm in 'buntu territory04:12
gnarfacetom_: so, maybe i'm wrong here, but i thought the point of elogind was not to need that... however i also thought if it was running as root, your power buttons would be working either way04:13
gnarfaceso that's weird04:13
tom_gnarface, you know how xdm su to an unprivileged user right? then ounce privdropped it executes your window manager04:14
tom_https://0x0.st/zwPv.png04:14
gnarfacetom_: i thought xdm started Xorg, which starts the WM in turn...04:14
tom_gnarface, no, XDM needs a display server to display things04:15
tom_so if you were to replicant the behavior by hand with would like something like this:04:15
masonXorg starts XDM starts .xsession or some default, I always thought.04:15
tom_# startx -- /usr/bin/xdm04:15
masonOr... Hrm.04:16
gnarfacehmmm....04:16
tom_then xdm paints a login window on the screen04:16
fsmithredtom_, are policykit-1 and policykit-1-gnome installed?04:16
tom_yes04:16
masonThinking about /etc/ttys on FreeBSD, it launches xdm, which suggests that xdm launches X.04:16
tom_suggests? xdm is useless without x04:17
yetisomewhere in /etc/X11/ is a file that tells xdm which display uses which server... Xservers(?)04:17
masontom_: Right, but in terms of launching the process, Xorg isn't launching XDM.04:18
tom_it's exec()ing xdm04:18
tom_you know the exec() syscall right?04:18
* mason drools into the screen.04:18
tom_man 3 exec04:19
masonBRB, rebooting into FreeBSD. If it's launching xdm directly, xdm has to be launching X.04:19
* yeti vanishes to feed his pets: emacs, org and babel04:19
yeti_o/"04:19
tom_exec() is different from fork() as it becomes the new proccess rather than forking child04:19
gnarfacetom_: hey uh04:20
gnarfacetom_: on this one here i'm looking at, it is definitely xdm starting Xorg, not the other way around04:21
gnarfacethat's confirmed04:21
tom_rerally?04:21
tom_well04:21
tom_that's certainly interesting04:21
gnarfaceyea04:21
gnarfacethat's while nothing is logged in04:21
gnarfaceit might be relevant that i don't have elogind installed04:22
gnarfacei think it's consolekit instead?04:22
tom_well04:23
tom_it's interesting that xfce requires elogind to change system runlevel, despite sudo being configured to allow it04:23
tom_xfce might be hardcoded to change runlevels via elogind rather than standard unix commands escalated via sudo or su04:24
masontom_: So, man xdm(1) also suggests that xdm is launching X.04:27
fsmithredswitch-user in my xfce is greyed out regardless of which dm I use04:27
masontom_: Will you believe I know fork and exec if I note that doing it twice detaches you so you can be a daemon?04:27
fsmithredI tried xdm, lxdm and lightdm04:27
tom_so xdm does a bit more than present a login forum an su04:28
gnarfaceok when i log in here,04:28
tom_no I believe you04:28
gnarfacei have xdm -> Xorg -> ck-launch-session -> ~/.xsession -> blackbox04:28
tom_just lightdm behave the same?04:28
gnarfacei'm not sure04:29
masongnarface: Is some session running ck-launch-session automatically or are you doing it by hand?04:29
masonIn Debian ages back I had to do it by hand.04:29
mason...when I was mucking with DEs.04:29
gnarfacemason: i did not make any changes to this stuff as i recall - it's all stock.04:29
tom_well if you look at my screencap you'll see xfce is in fact being launched to ck-session so the scaffolding is not at fault04:30
tom_it's probably xdm04:30
tom_don't know for sure though04:30
masontom_: Try an alternate just to have the data point.04:30
tom_which lightweight and simple dms to you guys prefer?04:31
tom_i'll try wdm which claims to be a xdm replacement04:35
Unit193fsmithred: Can you use switch user from xscreensaver with xfce4-session >= 4.12.1-504:36
Unit193?04:36
masontom_: I know lightdm works, and it's not gdm. People also like slim, but I've never used it.04:37
masonUnit193: from... xscreensaver?04:37
gnarfacetom_: do i have it right that you have elogind *and* consolekit installed?04:38
masongnarface: He just installed elogind thinking that might have been the issue.04:38
gnarfaceoh, hmm.04:38
masonI'm only assuming consolekit is there too.04:39
gnarfacewell having both definitely won't work04:39
gnarfacethat's mentioned right in the release notes04:39
masontom_: ^04:39
gnarfaceer, i thought it was anyway04:39
Unit193mason: It has a button for that on the login window, xfce4-session after 4.12.1-5 was patched to use a wrapper xscreensaver ships to detect what DM and use the appropriate switch-user command.  It'd be interesting to see if that at least works.04:40
tom_gnarface, yes04:40
gnarfacetom_: i think it has to be one or the other.  i'm not sure if your tests accounted for that04:41
gnarfacethey can't both be installed04:41
gnarfaceer, well they can but they conflict04:41
gnarfaceit is a devuan issue04:41
masonUnit193: Interesting. A day of learning new things.04:41
Unit193mason: /usr/share/xscreensaver/xscreensaver-wrapper.sh if you'd like to take a look at it.04:42
tom_gnarface, 1 of colorsole or elogind or policykit?04:44
masonUnit193: ty04:45
Unit193You're welcome!04:46
masonAlright, bedtime imminent. G'night all. o/04:48
gnarfacetom_: consolekit and elogind, specifically, not sure about the 3rd but maybe they're all mutually exclusive04:52
tom_i had console already installed but it didn;t work04:56
tom_at all04:56
tom_no shutdown buttons04:56
tom_so uninstalling didn't fix that either05:09
tom_although wdm works VERY well is and EXTREMELY fast05:12
tom_looks pleasing too05:12
gnarfaceinteresting... and it fixes the power buttons?05:14
gnarfacein xfce?05:15
tom_https://invidio.us/watch?v=1cfKc8U4iwg05:19
tom_power buttons are fine but switch-user still isn't05:20
fsmithredback05:41
fsmithredmake sure you have the right libpolkit packages for either elogind or consolekit05:41
fsmithredtom_, 'dm-tool switch-to-greeter' works with lightdm06:00
fsmithredHow to get the switch-user button to work: https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=47326#p4732606:23
tom_i see06:30
tom_thank you fsmithred06:30
fsmithredI tried it, and it works06:30
HumanGeekhello13:42
HumanGeeki can t connect anymore on my beowulf13:42
HumanGeekthrough ssh13:43
HumanGeekAccepted publickey for my user from myip port 50280 ssh2: RSA SHA256:13:43
HumanGeekfatal: privsep_preauth: preauth child terminated by signal 3113:43
Lipps_https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48255696/sshd-preauth-child-terminated-by-signal-31 maybe related?13:45
HumanGeekmy fw is open, the option sandbox is deprecated, sshd -t say nothing13:50
Lipps_i don't have any ideas but i wish you luck13:51
Lipps_any interesting thing in the logs maybe?13:51
Lipps_and does it happen repeatably?13:52
EvilhamHumanGeek: still missing some data about your sshd_config15:32
eyalrozDoes anyone remember that LaTeX compilation issue I mentioned a few weeks back?15:37
eyalrozWell, anyway, it turns out there is some sort of a packaged version mismatch causing that.15:37
eyalrozthe texlive-latex-recommended apt package - for beowulf - seems to have an outdated version of the CTAN package caption.15:38
Human_G33kEvilham, i just come back let me get files15:50
EvilhamHuman_G33k: I messed up a paste before, was saying that tihs could be related: https://github.com/openssl/openssl/issues/998415:51
Evilhamso output of `dpkg -l  | grep -E 'open(ssl|ssh-server)'` would be useful15:51
Evilhamalso maybe `uname -v`15:52
Human_G33klet me me rescue reboot ;)15:53
EvilhamHuman_G33k: also btw, I hope this isn't you? :-D https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=94166315:53
Evilhambut that sounds like exactly your problem15:54
Evilhamwhich is confusing because I applied that upgrade everywhere and haven't noticed a thing15:54
eyalrozAnybody?15:57
eyalrozhttps://gitlab.com/axelsommerfeldt/caption/issues/6415:57
Evilhameyalroz: which OS verison are you using? which version of texlive?16:02
eyalrozI'm using Devuan beowulf,16:02
eyalrozwith texlive-latex-recommended 2019.20190830-116:03
eyalrozand it has that bug.16:03
r3booteyalroz: did you try the fix that Axel mentioned?16:04
r3bootthat'll give you some head room before the fixed packages get released16:04
eyalrozr3boot: What I tried, and worked, is downloading the most current version of the caption package and putting it in my personal texmf directory to override the distro version. That worked.16:04
Evilhameyalroz: huh? show me output of `apt-cache policy texlive-latex-recommended`16:05
eyalrozr3boot: See also https://tex.stackexchange.com/q/510931/564016:05
eyalrozEvilham: Here: https://pastebin.com/YEzi4Eyk16:06
Evilhamdidn't you say you were using beowulf? :-)16:06
Evilhamthat package comes from ceres16:06
Evilhamso bsaically, the fix should land in ceres soonish (tm)16:07
Evilhamalso, if you were using beowulf's texlive packages, you wouldn't have that issue16:07
Human_G33kascii -> beowulf -> ceres right ?16:07
Evilhamif you'll mix repositories, make sure that you have proper pinning16:07
Evilhamceres ~~ sid16:08
eyalrozI _am_ using beowulf. That is, I dist-upgraded from ascii to beowulf. I wonder why I'm seeing "ceres" in the output. Let me do some grepping. Maybe I'm an idiot.16:09
Evilhameyalroz: it's fine :-D didn' tmean to imply you are, it just was surprising; check your sources.list, depending on *when* you upgraded to beowulf, there was a glitch that added ceres  to sources.list, so maybe you were unlucky16:10
Evilhamit shouldn't happen anymore16:10
EvilhamIIRC that was about 2 months ago16:10
eyalrozYes, I see two lines with the ceres repos added after the rest of sources.list - which has the beowulf repos16:10
eyalrozEvilham: Is it safe to just remove the two ceres lines? Or will this break stuff for me?16:12
Evilhamjust remove them16:12
EvilhamHuman_G33k: if you prefer so, you can send me your sshd_config per private/encrypted email, but it'd have to be in the very near future or I'll be off again :-p16:13
Human_G33kEvilham, https://paste.debian.net/hidden/b8b517f7/16:19
Human_G33ksshd config16:19
Human_G33kstrange thing, i have 3 config server file16:20
Human_G33ksshd_config.bak sshd_config.orig sshd_config.ucf-dist16:20
Human_G33kand the paste before16:21
Human_G33kthe dpkg output https://paste.debian.net/1104425/16:22
EvilhamHuman_G33k: do you use etckeeper or similar? to discard that there was a change in the config recently16:31
Evilhamthough I didn't notice anything awkward in your config16:31
EvilhamI'm upgrading a VM to test this16:32
Evilham:-s it's working just fine16:39
Human_G33kEvilham, no17:02
EvilhamHuman_G33k: didn't mean to say it's working fine for you, just that I can't get it to not work17:03
Human_G33kthe no is for etckeeper17:04
Human_G33k;)17:04
Evilhamalright, btw, have you made any changes to /etc/pam.d?17:04
Human_G33knot i can remember17:04
Human_G33ki m currently in a chroot if you need something else17:06
Human_G33ki have some old libcrypt4 can be related ?17:10
Evilhamno idea tbh, it'd be useful to have a broken system17:14
Evilhamanyway, maybe you should post to the debian bug I mentioned before, say that you have hte same issue, add some version information, maybe the bits of the auth.log and hopefully that'd help a bit17:15
Human_G33kEvilham, if im not wrong the debian bug is about bad rights configuration17:54
Human_G33kCould not open authorized keys '/home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys': No such file or directory the bug report sshd log say17:56
Human_G33ks17:56
EvilhamHuman_G33k: if you check the posted log a bit more carefully, youll see that it succeeds with password auth17:57
Human_G33kyes my bad17:57
EvilhamThey hint at it being an issue with latest DSA OpenSSL version17:57
Human_G33kso same error as me17:57
EvilhamMaybe you could downgrade for testing17:58
EvilhamAnd check if it works fime17:58
Human_G33khow can do that ?17:58
EvilhamIpgrade again, check if it doesn't work, that would hint at that hypothesis beimg correct under certain circumstances17:58
EvilhamHum, install OpenSSL from the Beowulf repo18:00
EvilhamMan apt-get sth sth18:00
* Evilham is on the go18:00
Human_G33kgood speed18:01
Human_G33kand thx18:01
Human_G33kfor the help18:01
TwistedFatehai23:22
MinceRHAI!   http://i.imgur.com/Vf7GOGS.jpg23:22
TwistedFate:'D23:30
* Ignotum is back (gone 143:31:23)23:43
MinceRthanks for the info!~23:44

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