systemdlete2 | So research is telling me that there really is an xfce4-polkit package but maybe we don't have it in the repo. | 00:20 |
---|---|---|
EHeM | SECURITY: Once again security updates appear to have broken, this time while most packages from src:git got their updates, git is missing. | 00:21 |
systemdlete2 | It's also telling me it might be time to switch to a different desktop to avoid this headache. OTOH, I like xfce (and always have) and this is -- as I said -- a minor nuisance. Not many other issues I can think of. | 00:21 |
AliceQuux | gnarface especially: I'm pleased to report that I stumbled across a solution to my 'no system beeps' problem... | 14:04 |
gnarface | oh? what was it? | 14:04 |
AliceQuux | While playing around with various 'auto-mute' on/off combos in alsamixer on the off chance that they'd make a difference, I decided to investigate the 'loopback' control even though I read in the dim & distant past that this is used 'only' for recording sound card output | 14:05 |
AliceQuux | Enabled that, muted the controls that it caused to hiss (unused/non-present mikes etc.), and bingo! I guess it makes sense that it might tie in with pass-through of beeps between bits of the system | 14:06 |
AliceQuux | This isn't the same as what I did in the past. It's actually better: | 14:06 |
gnarface | hmm, so you needed "Loopback" on | 14:07 |
AliceQuux | whatever I did before gave me beeps only when I didn't have audio out (to headphones or hi-fi) plugged in | 14:07 |
AliceQuux | Yeppers | 14:07 |
gnarface | that's weird, i wonder if it's expected behavior for that hardware... | 14:07 |
gnarface | not the beeping to internal speaker vs output, but i mean the part about loopback needing to be on | 14:08 |
AliceQuux | Might be needed for passing the beep through. From what I'd read previously, I thought loopback was mostly pulsey (I'm decidedly non-pulsey) for a start | 14:08 |
AliceQuux | Yep, got it. No idea, but my trawling the Interwebz leads me to believe that this should be included in the list of the usual things to check, just in case, alongside 'Is pcspkr blacklisted?', 'Does your inputc specify "audible"?', and my favourite frequently asked question: "Why would you want those annoying beeps anyway?" | 14:09 |
AliceQuux | *inputrc | 14:09 |
gnarface | hmmm, enabling "Loopback Mixing" here doesn't have any effect on the beep - it only comes out of internal speaker either way... but, different hardware, different software... | 14:10 |
AliceQuux | I'm just glad I thought to try it before tearing more hair out. | 14:11 |
gnarface | yea that's a good catch | 14:11 |
AliceQuux | About 15 years ago, there was something called, IIRC, the Linux Sound FAQ that went through various possible issues in a sensible order. The proliferation of hardware types, use cases, system forks, etc. probably would make such a document hugely unwieldy, but it would be nice(TM). | 14:12 |
AliceQuux | There are probably three other people in the world who could benefit from this particular bit of info, but it's a good catch from where I'm sitting | 14:13 |
AliceQuux | One fewer thing to worry about. Next challenge is going to involve which packages do and don't need to be pinned if I want a coherent system that doesn't end up featuring too much Progress and not enough coping with my wine set-up. | 14:15 |
AliceQuux | But that's not a Friday task | 14:15 |
gnarface | i recommend blocking the avahi daemon and pulseaudio | 14:19 |
gnarface | you'll lose Bonjour compatibility, i don't know if that's useful or not | 14:19 |
gnarface | well, only if you have Macs anyway | 14:20 |
gnarface | only maybe | 14:20 |
gnarface | you might want to block cups and sane too but i just turn them off so they don't launch at boot | 14:21 |
AliceQuux | At least with moderately recent Debian custom installs, tons of things keep trying to pull avahi into package management, and cups is listed as a dependency entirely too often. | 14:33 |
* AliceQuux sits on her hands to avoid a dependency rant | 14:34 | |
AliceQuux | It's easy to shrug, open those attack surfaces, and follow the slippery slope all the way to systemd | 14:35 |
djph | AliceQuux: hahahaha | 14:36 |
AliceQuux | Well, that's the kind of thing I tell myself whenever I feel like shrugging | 14:42 |
AliceQuux | and letting whateverd install (or just enabling all the JavaScript etc.) | 14:43 |
yann-kaelig | Hi. I have a package source named mysource-v0.0.tar.bz2 and Idon't understand the explanation to override this format with mysource-0.0 . I tried dh_make -p mysource-0.0 -f ../mysource-v0.0.tar.bz2 but that doesn't work. The man page doesn't help and I can not find an explanation from the web. | 15:22 |
djph | yann-kaelig: what are you trying to do? | 15:25 |
yann-kaelig | djph: Hi, This is exactly what I done > Inside my build directory, mkdir oblibs/0.0.4.0 then I extracted oblibs-v0.0.4.0.tar.bz2, next cd oblibs-v0.0.4.0 and now I want to execute dh_make -f ../oblibs-v0.0.4.0.tar.bz2 but I can't. " For dh_make to find the package name and version, the current directory needs to be in the format of <package>-<version>. Alternatively use the _-p flag using the format <name>_<version> to override | 15:30 |
yann-kaelig | it" So I tried dh_make -f ../oblibs-v0.0.4.0.tar.bz2 -p oblibs-0.0.4.0 but that do not work | 15:30 |
djph | yann-kaelig: it sounds like you're doing something very wrong | 15:31 |
djph | should be something like ... (1) mkdir program && cd program // (2) get the tarball into the current working directory // (3) extract the tarball // (4) cd into the resulting program-version directory // (5) dh_make... | 15:34 |
yann-kaelig | dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file package/deps.mak, use --include-removal to override | 17:58 |
yann-kaelig | where am I suppose to add this option ? | 17:58 |
poontangmessiah | Hello, i was wondering if is it possible to upgrade kernel above 4.9? is so, how? | 18:00 |
EHeM | The backports archive has 4.19. | 18:07 |
poontangmessiah | EHeM: Thank you | 18:08 |
EHeM | Meanwhile I'm left wondering why so few people who care about computer security followed Devuan... | 18:09 |
poontangmessiah | What's the point if you can't even install your wireless drivers. | 18:13 |
huhh | You guys really should include OBS installed on one of the distros... it is hell trying to install this junk and get it working, it defaults to 0.0.1, and I've tried everything | 18:18 |
huhh | first Linux distro to get used by a popular streamer is going to take over the world | 18:18 |
huhh | ...and don't use wicd, it is junk. Network Manager lets you use your ethernet port, to share your wifi, piece of junk wicd has no such option | 18:20 |
poontangmessiah | huhh: connman | 18:21 |
huhh | now I have to install connman, to have basic connection sharing? | 18:23 |
golinux | huhh: Devuan's priority is to offer an OS without systemd entanglements not to include everyone's favorite app for this or that. | 18:23 |
huhh | It's not my favorite app, it is an essential app with which word of mouth about Linux can spread. I see why people use windows | 18:24 |
golinux | poontangmessiah: Of course you can install wireless drivers, or so I've heard. I've never had a need for a wireless connection. | 18:24 |
golinux | huhh: Essential in your opinion. | 18:25 |
huhh | I am using wireless, NM makes it easy to share my internet through ethernet port, wicd doesn't | 18:25 |
poontangmessiah | golinux: many drivers require kernel versions above 4.9 to be built and installed | 18:25 |
golinux | New hardware is always an issue | 18:25 |
poontangmessiah | by the way how the hell do you get by without wireless? | 18:26 |
huhh | It's not new hardware, it's very old. Network manager let's me share my wifi to other computers. | 18:26 |
huhh | wicd is junk | 18:26 |
golinux | When I buy "new" hardware, it's never cutting edge. Learned that lesson early on. | 18:26 |
golinux | poontangmessiah: No mobile devices. | 18:27 |
huhh | it's frustrating because Devuan is one of the best distros for stability, yet uses the piece of junk wicd and you can only install ancient version of OBS | 18:29 |
huhh | Imagine if pewdiepie installed this and decides Linux is junk... now imagine if you include OBS-studio latest version in one of the installs and it works to stream right away. | 18:31 |
huhh | The first distro that does that is going to rule the world | 18:32 |
poontangmessiah | huhh: since when any distro other than ubuntu/RH/fedora/MJ cared about PR. | 18:32 |
huhh | those distros suck... except Ubuntu, it is stable and they at least use network manager not stuck with wicd | 18:34 |
poontangmessiah | network manager is trash imo | 18:34 |
huhh | I want to replace Ubuntu studio and Devuan is the one that passes my tests when I try to make it crash | 18:35 |
MinceR | networkmangler is worse than wicd | 18:35 |
nemo | MinceR: it's got a friendlier applet UI though | 18:35 |
nemo | which is why my SO liked it | 18:35 |
huhh | wicd is trash, you can't share wifi to ethernet | 18:35 |
nemo | well that's true. | 18:36 |
nemo | not the trash bit, but the sharing | 18:36 |
MinceR | networkmangler is trash, it depends on cancerd | 18:37 |
MinceR | and automatic connection never works | 18:37 |
nemo | MinceR: does it really? I thought that was still optional | 18:37 |
nemo | MinceR: well in all fairness automatic never seems to work for me in wiccd either ☹ even if I have autoconnect checked - but I may be missing something | 18:37 |
MinceR | well, its debian package depends on libpam-systemd | 18:37 |
nemo | MinceR: oh. that | 18:37 |
MinceR | (it also depends on polkit, which is also trash) | 18:37 |
nemo | Nefertiti: I thought that was more a debian packaging fail | 18:38 |
nemo | er | 18:38 |
nemo | MinceR: | 18:38 |
MinceR | there was one case in autoconnect does work in wicd | 18:38 |
MinceR | iirc it's resume from suspend | 18:38 |
huhh | so everything sucks basically | 18:38 |
huhh | someone said I could install Network Manager in Devuan, but it uses systemd? | 18:40 |
nemo | interesting. there was a request to make libpam-systemd less tightly coupled to systemd-sysv but was closed wontfix even though it seemed doable | 18:40 |
nemo | maintainer refused | 18:40 |
nemo | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=935304 if I read this correctly | 18:40 |
nemo | wonder if devuan could repackage/stub libpam-systemd | 18:41 |
MinceR | huhh: you could try and find out what happens | 18:41 |
MinceR | afaik devuan bans systemd from being installed, so apt won't even offer to break your system | 18:41 |
nemo | yeah. was thinking more a libpam-systemd stub rather than actual systemd | 18:42 |
nemo | but I guess that's unreasonable | 18:42 |
nemo | would have to be a reimplementation like eudev | 18:42 |
nemo | and not enough justification for it | 18:42 |
MinceR | funny discussion in the bug | 18:42 |
nemo | yes | 18:42 |
nemo | run systemd as non-pid 1 O_o | 18:43 |
MinceR | well, libpam-systemd probably does some cancerous bullshit | 18:43 |
MinceR | i like openbsd's approach to wifi | 18:45 |
MinceR | ipconfig+dhclient does it fine on the command line | 18:46 |
MinceR | simple, doesn't crash | 18:46 |
MinceR | (unlike wpa_cli) | 18:46 |
nemo | MinceR: well, those of my family members on linux kinda need a commandline | 18:47 |
poontangmessiah | anyone here remember a bash script that does most things a netman does except with basic linux commands? | 18:47 |
MinceR | nemo: you mean a gui? :> | 18:48 |
yann-kaelig | well, I'm stuck. When I execute dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot I am missing this file > package/deps.mak: No such file or directory and I don't understand why | 18:50 |
nemo | MinceR: er. that one yes 😉 | 18:50 |
nemo | MinceR: I'm sick and distracted which is a bad combo | 18:50 |
* nemo hunts up some coffee | 18:50 | |
MinceR | :) | 18:50 |
* unixman shoots some coffee for nemo | 18:52 | |
nemo | MinceR: I was curious if gentoo was offering it, since if any distro might have the flexibility it would be them. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/NetworkManager#Service | 18:53 |
nemo | MinceR: I don't know if this actually means it can build without libpam though | 18:53 |
MinceR | gentoo also supports systemd though | 18:54 |
nemo | MinceR: sure. but you can flag it off | 18:54 |
MinceR | oh, openrc | 18:54 |
nemo | MinceR: I do have a gentoo system with a hard mask on systemd being disabled | 18:55 |
MinceR | then maybe it is possible to build it without links to the malware | 18:55 |
MinceR | not that i would want to -- networkmangler is no better than other poetteringware | 18:55 |
nemo | MinceR: it might be just an upstream packaging thing with debian | 18:55 |
nemo | in which case someone would have to maintain it and clearly MinceR doesn't want to. But huhh cares deeply about it *and* devuan, so maybe he can submit patches ☺ | 18:56 |
MinceR | :> | 18:56 |
MinceR | good luck with getting an attempt to allow users to run something other than cancerd past the ibm moles at debian | 18:56 |
nemo | MinceR: well wouldn't need to | 18:56 |
nemo | just add NetworkManager to the devuan package list | 18:56 |
nemo | MinceR: with huhh providing the requisite deb-src patches | 18:57 |
MinceR | oh, i thought you meant getting something done with debian | 18:57 |
nemo | maybe he can start by packaging it for his own system ☺ | 18:57 |
nemo | naw. just trying to get someone involved | 18:57 |
nemo | MinceR: I've been contributing code for a decade to Hedgewars now, and it all started with a user complaint | 18:57 |
nemo | "Oh, you don't like X? How about you fix it" | 18:57 |
nemo | … "ok" | 18:57 |
MinceR | :> | 18:57 |
nemo | X led to Y and Z and few thousand others... | 18:58 |
huhh | Devuan, the best and most reliable OS that I hate | 18:58 |
nemo | huhh: just saying. if there's stuff that bugs you in FOSS, best thing to do is jump in and lend a hand | 18:58 |
nemo | esp w/ minor projects/distros | 18:58 |
nemo | and Devuan is in a more fragile situation than most | 18:59 |
nemo | MinceR: gentoo is my fallback plan if the votes go the wrong way | 18:59 |
nemo | MinceR: hm. I also checked just in case MATE had done a fork, but can't find one. oh well. | 19:10 |
MinceR | interesting | 19:11 |
nemo | that is a MATE nm-applet that might require a MATE network-manager that might require a fork taht could be systemd optional ☺ | 19:11 |
nemo | no hint of anything like that anywhere though | 19:11 |
nemo | hrm. who maintains nm-applet anyway | 19:12 |
nemo | probably some gnome person | 19:12 |
golinux | nemo: Have you checked http://hezeh.org/ ? | 19:17 |
nemo | golinux: you've mentioned it yes... I hadn't used it on my laptop yet. | 19:17 |
nemo | golinux: but don't think he's got a network-manager package anyway? | 19:18 |
golinux | Might be newer version there than in the repos | 19:18 |
nemo | http://hezeh.org/packages/?dir=pool/main/n it'd be here no? | 19:18 |
nemo | golinux: MATE doesn't seem to have any nm-applet/network-manager forking anyway | 19:19 |
golinux | I have no idea. Just know that he does Mate for Devuan | 19:19 |
huhhh | someone mention network manager? | 19:19 |
nemo | that said, it doesn't seem like network-manager is explicitly gnome dependent | 19:19 |
nemo | https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/groups/NetworkManager/ not maintained by gnome | 19:19 |
golinux | It is in our repos iiuc | 19:20 |
nemo | golinux: couldn't find it in a package search | 19:20 |
huhhh | If there is a version of devuan with NM instead of wicd I would like to try | 19:20 |
golinux | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=network-manager&release=any | 19:20 |
huhhh | Network Manager works great and has better features than wicd | 19:21 |
golinux | Have at it! | 19:21 |
MinceR | huhhh obviously received a different networkmangler from the ones i've used :( | 19:21 |
golinux | Different strokes . . . | 19:22 |
MinceR | kinky | 19:22 |
nemo | golinux: hm... I think network-manager is a name collision which explains my confusion | 19:22 |
nemo | not sure though | 19:22 |
nemo | https://packages.debian.org/sid/network-manager-gnome | 19:23 |
huhhh | I want to share my wifi connection with my raspberry pi through ethernet, and not have to set up dhcp server or whatever the headache is | 19:23 |
nemo | network-manager-gnome vs network-manager | 19:23 |
huhhh | NM lets you share to other computers | 19:23 |
nemo | huhhh: for the situation you're talking about an entire gui environment seems way overkill | 19:25 |
nemo | huhhh: this feels to me like a case for a few bridging / iptable rules | 19:25 |
MinceR | making a wifi access point is possible without networkmangler | 19:26 |
MinceR | i did it back when i did my experiment on mobile computing with rpi+tablet | 19:27 |
nemo | https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-networking-3/can-i-use-iptables-to-share-a-wireless-connection-4175489936/ something like this discussion. dunno | 19:27 |
nemo | it's not something I'd attempt to instruct someone in without wifi and cat5 connectinos to test with | 19:27 |
nemo | and unfortunately the machine I'm on now, while it does have access to both, is currently running an adhoc wireless network for the office because our router is crap | 19:28 |
nemo | (I'm relaying wireless to cat5 for all the iphones/android/lazy laptop users ☺ ) | 19:28 |
huhhh | I can make an access point too, that's not what I want. I want to share the wifi connection from this computer to other computers, without having a computer science degree | 19:32 |
nemo | I'm aware what you meant | 19:32 |
nemo | thus the link | 19:32 |
nemo | huhhh: I'm noting that I can't give you (and verify) the few probably simple rules because I'd want to test it here to make sure I got it right | 19:33 |
nemo | and I can't do that because, as noted, I have my machine devoted to being an AP, and it can't do both at once | 19:33 |
nemo | huhhh: BTW, making an AP, probably mildly more complicated than what you're asking above | 19:33 |
nemo | which is just setting up a machine as a gateway over two networks | 19:34 |
nemo | something people have been doing with linux machines for decades | 19:34 |
huhhh | now Devuan is crashing on me(system freeze) after using kdenlive | 19:45 |
huhhh | I guess I need Nvidia drivers, would have installed them by now but it is a pain... should be an option to install Nvidia drivers at install | 19:46 |
nemo | huhhh: so, for stuff like that you really should just follow any random Debian walkthrough | 20:06 |
nemo | huhhh: and... take concerns with default setup to them. since Devuan really does try to touch debian defaults lightly | 20:07 |
nemo | huhhh: what's your graphics card? surprised kdenlive would die running nouveau. I ran nouveau for years until I eventually hit a game that wouldn't work with it | 20:07 |
nemo | that is, stuff like Planetary Annihilation worked fine with Nouveau, but Witcher was considerably more demanding | 20:08 |
huhhh | geforce 8600 potato | 20:09 |
specing | you still have a working 8600 geforce? | 20:19 |
huhhh | yeah, all my computers come from the garbage | 20:21 |
specing | mine melted away a decade ago | 20:22 |
specing | maybe that is why it is crashing for you | 20:22 |
huhhh | runs fine on Ubuntu studio and windows | 20:22 |
nemo | Which windows | 20:27 |
nemo | 10? | 20:27 |
huhhh | windows 7 | 20:27 |
nemo | huhhh: ok. do you have "optimise for speed" checked in windows 7? | 20:28 |
nemo | or similar? | 20:28 |
nemo | 04:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK104 [GeForce GTX 760] (rev a1) my current ancient graphics card that does seem to run a fair number of games as a reasonable framerate in nouveau | 20:29 |
nemo | I'm shopping for something new though | 20:29 |
specing | nemo: gtx750 if you can get one | 20:33 |
huhhh | I don't know; I stopped using windows a few months ago and have been using Ubuntu Studio, AntiX, Parrot, ArcoLinux, Bodhi, etc... I might just go back to Ubuntu Studio, it is the most reliable despite relatively long boot and shutdown times(I just hit the power button when it takes too long :-)) | 20:34 |
specing | huhhh: why shut it down in the first place? | 20:34 |
specing | I don't even suspend my laptop anymore, I just leave it running in the backpack | 20:35 |
huhhh | good point lool | 20:35 |
nemo | specing: I'm looking for something newer... | 20:48 |
nemo | specing: but ideally with decent FOSS driver support. either AMD or nVidia | 20:48 |
huhhh | Modern computing is a mess; this is the future https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayh0qebfD2g | 20:49 |
specing | nemo: gtx750 was the fastest gpu that could run open firmware | 20:49 |
nemo | huhhh: I'm just noting depending on your hardware and uses, hardware compositing enabled or disabled can be helpful | 20:49 |
specing | nemo: new nvidia requires firmrware blobs | 20:49 |
specing | new AMD too | 20:49 |
specing | there are other options, but they are slow | 20:49 |
nemo | specing: the AMD thing I definitely noticed on laptops... | 20:49 |
nemo | I'm not thrilled about that to be sure | 20:50 |
nemo | specing: I'm just hoping it's limiting the scope of the damage | 20:50 |
nemo | specing: is it for DRM? | 20:50 |
nemo | or are they trying to keep parts of their tech secret? | 20:50 |
specing | it is to prevent development of foss firmware, what else | 20:51 |
huhhh | nemo, I don't know what you mean. In windows I presume it was not optimized to be slow | 20:53 |
buZz | nemo: the latter | 20:53 |
buZz | they theorize that by having specs in the open, people would be able to clone their advantages over competitors quickly | 20:54 |
buZz | nvidia should just buy AMD | 20:54 |
buZz | and be done with it, foss all the drivers | 20:55 |
MinceR | lol | 20:57 |
huhhh | FOSS the world | 20:58 |
buZz | i wonder how many times intel tried to buy AMD thusfar | 20:58 |
huhhh | I have only bought AMD, never touch Intel | 20:59 |
buZz | not shares, the entire company | 20:59 |
buZz | i like that after howmanyyears now, AMD is still just making 'intel compatible' chips | 21:00 |
huhhh | but now the student has surpassed the master | 21:00 |
buZz | they have prior | 21:00 |
buZz | they havent ever held such advantage really long though | 21:00 |
buZz | AMD's total annual profit is less then 10% of intels R&D budget ;) | 21:01 |
huhhh | R&D on how to kill more Palestinian kids faster :-D | 21:01 |
buZz | arent they focussing on lebanon now? | 21:02 |
buZz | i mean, i assume you're talking about that US state in the middle east | 21:02 |
huhhh | I like falafels | 21:03 |
buZz | 'hebrewland' according to gomberg's famous NWO map | 21:03 |
huhhh | Yinon Plan foreshadows recent events if you look at a map | 21:04 |
specing | buZz | they theorize that by having specs in the open, people would be able to clone their advantages over competitors quickly | 21:04 |
specing | shit their PR department says =/= what the real reason is | 21:05 |
specing | buZz | i wonder how many times intel tried to buy AMD thusfar | 21:05 |
specing | 0 | 21:05 |
specing | no regulator would let it happen | 21:05 |
MinceR | strange, regulators usually don't care about any issues of significance | 21:05 |
buZz | many versions of nostradamus exist | 21:05 |
buZz | specing: sad | 21:06 |
MinceR | microshit got less than a slap on the wrist for their monopoly abuses | 21:06 |
buZz | specing: well, i was talking to a PowerVR dev for a long time :P | 21:06 |
MinceR | ooh, they had to offer a boxed version of winblows with out idiot exploiter and another without media player | 21:06 |
MinceR | ooh, they had to offer users a choice of browsers for a short period | 21:06 |
specing | I guess the best you can do is Talos + gtx750, free microcode and free gpu firmware. | 21:06 |
buZz | plus pay some billions in fines | 21:06 |
MinceR | which is nothing to them | 21:06 |
huhhh | microsoft seem like nice guys compared to Google, talk about monopolies that bundle their stuff | 21:07 |
MinceR | oh, forgot to mention that those boxed versions of winblows cost exactly the same the version that had both idiot exploiter and media player | 21:07 |
* onefang thinks you have gone off topic a little. Please take it elsewhere. | 21:07 | |
MinceR | no, google seems like nice guys compared to microsloth | 21:07 |
buZz | if nice guys won, we'd all be on xerox computers today | 21:08 |
huhhh | they are on everyone's phone, with their operating system, bundled with their spyware browser... MS got attacked for much less | 21:08 |
MinceR | microshit managed to do patent extortion against corporations that sell Linux on their devices based on a bullshit patent on something Linus came up with before they did, and got to force those devices to come preinstalled with microsuck malware | 21:09 |
MinceR | microsloth decides what OS you can boot on a PC | 21:10 |
MinceR | they forced the CoC on Linux and they control the Linux-Destroying Foundation | 21:10 |
MinceR | they successfully threatened PC manufacturers with price hikes for offering customers a choice of operating systems | 21:10 |
MinceR | they used their ill-gotten monopolies to lock computer users into their seriously broken software and formats | 21:11 |
MinceR | oh, and protocols | 21:11 |
buZz | i like when they started to sue the living daylight out of some time 1person IT company that was gifting ppl copies of mouse.com | 21:11 |
buZz | that was hilarious | 21:11 |
MinceR | they filled ISO with their own minions so they could subvert the ISO from the inside to rubberstamp their shitty document format against the ISO rules, at a point where zero conforming implementations existed | 21:12 |
MinceR | they manipulated the EPO into acting against its own rules and accept software patent filings | 21:14 |
onefang | This is supposed to be a low traffic Devuan support channel. How can I keep an eye out for actual Devuan support questions, when you fill it with shit that is completely off topic? I ask you again, move this conversation elsewhere. | 21:14 |
MinceR | many times | 21:14 |
EHeM | onefang: Or people attempting to sound the alarm about serious infrastructure problems (security updates are broken again!). | 21:22 |
onefang | That to. B-) | 21:22 |
onefang | Oddly, the thing that off topic conversation was distracting my from is the development of my Devuan mirror infrastructure checking scripts. It'll be expanded later to cover things like security updates being broken. | 21:27 |
EHeM | If it sounds an alarm at the present state of the git package, then it may be pretty valuable. | 21:29 |
onefang | It's called apt-panopticon, and as the name would suggest, the ultimate goal is to probe into every nook and cranny of the apt distribution system, to find out what is breaking, and where. Integration with things like Nagios / Icinga is planned. I recently added RRD history collection and graphing. | 21:43 |
golinux | EHeM: People sounding the alarm can take it to #debianfork | 21:49 |
golinux | onefang: Thanks for trying. | 21:49 |
golinux | This is indeed a support channel. | 21:49 |
huuhhhh | How does one stop/start wicd in Devuan? I want to remove it but want to test Network Manager first | 21:53 |
Akuli | sudo service wicd stop | 21:54 |
Akuli | i think network-manager needs systemd and so doesn't work on devuan | 21:54 |
huuhhhh | i see... will try it anyway ;-) | 21:55 |
Akuli | how are you even going to get it installed? | 21:55 |
Akuli | it's in the repo hmm | 21:55 |
huuhhhh | apt | 21:55 |
Akuli | yeah | 21:55 |
Akuli | i wonder what will happen lol :D | 21:56 |
onefang | /etc/init.d/wicd start | 21:56 |
fsmithred | we have network-manager | 21:56 |
onefang | If you are using SYS V init. | 21:56 |
huuhhhh | I can always remove network-manager | 21:56 |
fsmithred | use one or the other | 21:57 |
huuhhhh | and reboot | 21:57 |
Akuli | hmm | 21:57 |
fsmithred | there's also connman | 21:57 |
onefang | Other init systems are available. B-) | 21:57 |
Akuli | is network-manager for devuan new? it wasn't an option about a year ago or something | 21:57 |
Akuli | i wanted to use it because my funny mobile broadband internet device worked with it but wicd doesn't support those things | 21:57 |
Akuli | because wicd devs don't have them | 21:58 |
fsmithred | n-m has been devuanized for a long time | 21:58 |
fsmithred | huuhhhh, 'update-rc.d wicd remove' | 21:58 |
fsmithred | to turn it off | 21:59 |
fsmithred | update-rc.d wicd defaults (to restore it) | 21:59 |
aaro | i think is disable instead of remove | 21:59 |
fsmithred | turn it off=disable it completely | 21:59 |
Akuli | nice, i didn't know about update-rc.d | 21:59 |
fsmithred | remove removes all the links | 21:59 |
fsmithred | not sure what disable does | 22:00 |
Akuli | i would have just moved the init script to some other place if i wanted to disable it :D | 22:00 |
fsmithred | sysv-rc-conf is easier | 22:00 |
fsmithred | arrows and space bar | 22:00 |
fsmithred | looks like we have un-devuanized n-m in beowulf and ceres | 22:01 |
Akuli | how do i upgrade to a newer devuan release without reinstalling everything? sudo apt dist-upgrade? | 22:02 |
fsmithred | change sources.list | 22:03 |
fsmithred | apt update | 22:03 |
fsmithred | apt upgrade | 22:03 |
fsmithred | reboot | 22:03 |
fsmithred | yeah, sudo or as root | 22:03 |
Akuli | hmm. a neighbour of mine uses devuan because he really wanted a non-systemd non-windows non-mac system, but he doesn't know how to edit config files, i'll just need to visit him every once in a while and update his system? | 22:04 |
fsmithred | n-m wants libsystemd0 and libpam-systemd, but if you have libelogind0 and libpam-elogind, those will satisfy it. | 22:04 |
fsmithred | Akuli, yes. You probably won't need to do much. | 22:05 |
Akuli | thanks | 22:05 |
fsmithred | I've installed linux for several people who can't admin it (at all.) | 22:05 |
fsmithred | I hardly ever have to do anything for them | 22:05 |
Akuli | would be tempting to set up ssh access to systems like that, but i don't want peoples' computers listening for the internet | 22:06 |
fsmithred | Akuli, another option is to set up port forwarding | 22:06 |
fsmithred | yes | 22:06 |
fsmithred | use auth keys, not login | 22:07 |
fsmithred | use non-standard port to avoid annoying hard drive activity from all the login attempts | 22:07 |
Akuli | yeah public password logins are a bad idea | 22:07 |
fsmithred | if you're going to do the upgrade over ssh, have your friend near the phone in case you need their help. | 22:08 |
Akuli | would be annoying to reboot their system for them, lol | 22:09 |
fsmithred | I recall hearing about someone who would open and close the CD tray on his girlfriend's computer from across campus. | 22:09 |
Akuli | https://xkcd.com/530/ | 22:10 |
fsmithred | lol, thanks | 22:11 |
fsmithred | aaro, do you know how disable differs from remove? | 22:11 |
Akuli | fsmithred, did you mean to ping me? | 22:13 |
aaro | fsmithred: well disable just do that, disable the service meaning it is already installed and you can enable it again, remove apparently remove links which i think it would be better to just uninstall purge the whole package | 22:13 |
Akuli | nevermind | 22:13 |
fsmithred | guess I'll have to try it and see what it actually does. Maybe chmod -x? | 22:14 |
aaro | https://nixdoc.net/man-pages/Linux/man8/update-rc.d.8.html | 22:16 |
aaro | i have always used disable/enable only wasn't aware of the remove option | 22:16 |
huuuhh | network-manager didn't bring up an applet in teh corner, but I was able to get wireless networks to be seen in nmtui, although it could not connect successfully | 22:26 |
EHeM | My one encounter with it was perhaps a decade ago due to a new installation deciding to install it, since it was doing an excellent job of being in the way and not being helpful, it remains in my thoughts as "Nyetwork Bungler"; you may like it, but I run away fast. | 22:26 |
huuuhh | someone said beowulf has the un devuanized version of nm... what did you mean by that? | 22:27 |
huuuhh | does Beowulf version of network-manager work? | 22:35 |
yann-kaelig | join #debian | 22:44 |
fsmithred | huuuhh, I meant that we have the same network-manager as debian | 22:46 |
fsmithred | I haven't tried it, but it should work. It does not require systemd | 22:46 |
huuuhh | thanks, I'll try the upgrade | 23:00 |
huuuhh | is there a command line interface for wicd, just out of curiousity. wicd-curses does not work | 23:04 |
fsmithred | huuuhh, wicd-cli | 23:32 |
huuuhh | fsmithred - not in my terminal | 23:54 |
fsmithred | huuuhh, that's the name of the package | 23:59 |
fsmithred | ok, it's also the name of the command. Make sure it's installed. | 23:59 |
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