systemdlete | Installing from the DVD image (on usb stick). Going OK, but one thing I encountered is that I am installing to a partition that had devuan on it previously (same partition, in fact, as the one used for the netinstall of beowulf). I chose to erase it, but then it wouldn't save the partitioning scheme. So I change the type from ext4 to ext2 then back to ext4 and that was enough to convince the partitioner to save my changes. | 02:39 |
---|---|---|
systemdlete | I chose the default package config (but I did uncheck the printer stuff). It's proceeding now. I'm still confused by the "install desktop" choice followed by individual choices for xfce etc. It is not intuitive. esp since xfce is apparently default but not checked... | 02:41 |
systemdlete | We discussed this previously here for ascii (and jessie) so I won't bother you all to try to make sense of it, esp given it is generic debian stuff | 02:44 |
systemdlete | During boot, I noticed that the nvidia drivers had errors. I don't notice anything particularly wrong, other than there is a kind of "soft" or blurry tone to the desktop. | 06:08 |
systemdlete | Again, this is a hardware install from the beowulf desktop ISO (4G beast) | 06:09 |
tuxd3v | systemdlete, have you activated composition? | 06:10 |
systemdlete | tuxd3v: Not so far as I know. | 07:51 |
systemdlete | I've never had to do that in the past. | 07:52 |
systemdlete | (did I miss an instruction in the install?) | 07:52 |
tuxd3v | I was just asking as I tought it that blur was some aliasing in the text, that usually composition solves | 07:53 |
tuxd3v | just asked because of that | 07:53 |
tuxd3v | :) | 07:53 |
systemdlete | How would I do that? | 07:54 |
gnarface | systemdlete: did you actually install nvidia drivers? or is it using the open source ones still? (the default) | 07:54 |
systemdlete | Unknown, gnarface. I took all the defaults during install. | 07:55 |
systemdlete | I have not performed any updates since install. | 07:55 |
tuxd3v | Now that gnarface touched in the subject, maybe probably he is right | 07:55 |
tuxd3v | :) | 07:56 |
gnarface | systemdlete: well, you should definitely do your updates, but if you're used to nvidia's official drivers' behavior on this hardware from some distro that installs them by default like Ubuntu, note that is not what debian or devuan would install by default. instead it would be nouveau... which is known to have numerous issues | 07:56 |
tuxd3v | nouveau driver? intead of nvidia proprietary one? | 07:56 |
gnarface | it would be easy to check | 07:57 |
systemdlete | I don't remember doing this for ascii, but that was many months ago. | 07:57 |
gnarface | you can't have them both at once | 07:57 |
systemdlete | Hold on, let me switch to the testbox... (about 10 secs, pls) | 07:57 |
tuxd3v | does any one knows what group is kvm working ID? 110? | 07:59 |
systemdlete | ah yes. I have to add the beowulf repo. And install IRC client. Need a few mins... | 07:59 |
gnarface | tuxd3v: the system group numbers are chosen at installation time | 08:00 |
gnarface | tuxd3v: installation time of each individual program | 08:00 |
tuxd3v | the UID? | 08:00 |
gnarface | so they vary if you install stuff in a different order | 08:00 |
tuxd3v | sorry | 08:01 |
tuxd3v | GID | 08:01 |
gnarface | system users' UID and GID both, actually | 08:01 |
gnarface | all of them as far as i know | 08:01 |
gnarface | at least most of them as far as i've observed | 08:01 |
tuxd3v | yes, but usually bellow 1000, I think they are static maybe I should look into it :) | 08:01 |
gnarface | ah yes, below 500 for debian, between 500-1000 for redhat, IIRC, users numbers start at 1000 for both i think though? | 08:02 |
gnarface | technically debian might be 100-500 | 08:02 |
gnarface | not sure | 08:02 |
gnarface | i only had to know that once | 08:02 |
tuxd3v | gnarface, yeah redhat 5 or 6 was 500-1000, v7 I think its like devuan | 08:03 |
gnarface | interesting | 08:03 |
tuxd3v | I believe that in redhat5 if you create a normal user it could be 501 for example | 08:04 |
tuxd3v | while in debian at the time...wheezy? it started at 1000 | 08:04 |
tuxd3v | something like that | 08:04 |
gnarface | but yea if you do a lot of installs by tasksel on the installer disk, you might easily see an illusion that they are numerically standardized down to being assigned specific numbers like the service ports are | 08:05 |
tuxd3v | you right | 08:06 |
gnarface | but they're really just chosen by the packages themselves at install time | 08:06 |
systemdlete | neither deb.devuan.org nor devuan.org are resolving now | 08:13 |
systemdlete | (ping: devuan.org: Temporary failure in name resolution) | 08:13 |
systemdlete | This is happening on my workbox as well as my testbox. | 08:13 |
systemdlete | So I can't do an update | 08:14 |
systemdlete | Prob. internet congestion | 08:14 |
systemdlete | EVERYONE on earth is on the Internet these days | 08:14 |
gnarface | systemdlete: devuan.org 54.36.142.179 | 08:17 |
gnarface | (that's what i get here) | 08:17 |
systemdlete | ok. I will add that to hosts file for now | 08:17 |
gnarface | well, that's just the website, that won't help apt. here's what i get for deb.devuan.org: http://paste.debian.net/1136282/ | 08:18 |
gnarface | you can probably just pick one from that list | 08:20 |
systemdlete | no release file | 08:21 |
systemdlete | so it won't update | 08:22 |
gnarface | it should if you add it to the hosts file as well.. | 08:22 |
gnarface | some of those mirrors are using name-based virtual hosting | 08:23 |
systemdlete | add what to the hosts file please? | 08:23 |
gnarface | deb.devuan.org | 08:23 |
systemdlete | I added it as an alias | 08:23 |
gnarface | oh, hmmm | 08:24 |
systemdlete | and www.devuan.org | 08:24 |
systemdlete | after that, it seemed to work. The complaint now is that there is no release file. | 08:24 |
systemdlete | Which makes it insecure and that is disabled by default. | 08:24 |
gnarface | you're using this, right? http://deb.devuan.org/merged | 08:24 |
systemdlete | All I did was uncomment the lines in the sources.list file | 08:25 |
gnarface | paste your sources.list for me so i can look at it, use paste.debian.net or just /msg it to me | 08:25 |
systemdlete | I don't have a irc client yet. I'll pastebinit | 08:26 |
systemdlete | or tpaste if that is available | 08:26 |
gnarface | systemdlete: you could just try running a local dns server. you don't have to know how to do anything to it to use it for lookups. | 08:32 |
gnarface | just install bind9 and use 127.0.0.1 as your dns server | 08:33 |
systemdlete | I run dnsmasq usually, but I have one running already on my firewall (ipfire). The problem here seems to be intermittent outages that last just a few minutes | 08:33 |
systemdlete | (I'm in California, and we are all locked down here) | 08:33 |
gnarface | yea, exactly, that's why i'm suggesting to take your ISP's obviously overloaded DNS server out of the equation | 08:33 |
gnarface | it's more secure for you that way anyway | 08:34 |
gnarface | and the system load of your own lookups is trivial | 08:34 |
systemdlete | actually, not using Comcast DNS. I'm using an alternate one that has dnssec and other stuff | 08:34 |
gnarface | well trivial by modern standards | 08:34 |
gnarface | bind9 supports dnssec | 08:34 |
systemdlete | ipfire uses unbound | 08:34 |
systemdlete | http://tpaste.us/JxdE | 08:36 |
systemdlete | http://tpaste.us/8Xmg | 08:36 |
systemdlete | sources.list and hosts files, resp | 08:36 |
gnarface | oh man please not a new pastebin | 08:38 |
gnarface | can't you just use paste.debian.net? | 08:38 |
gnarface | it's got no ads | 08:38 |
onefang | For what it is worth, the mirror checkers are showing things are fine, just a couple being slow to update. | 08:38 |
systemdlete | tpaste has no ads that I can see. It was set up by the adelie people I think. I like the fact that the urls are short enough to hold in my head | 08:40 |
systemdlete | which is very convenient when running back and forth between systems with only one monitor between them | 08:40 |
systemdlete | without need for paper... | 08:41 |
systemdlete | http://paste.debian.net/1136285/ | 08:41 |
systemdlete | http://paste.debian.net/1136286/ | 08:42 |
systemdlete | again, sources.list and /etc/hosts files, resp'ly | 08:42 |
systemdlete | as it is, i had to sneakernet the files by thumb drive since I don't have another way atm | 08:44 |
gnarface | systemdlete: i see multiple obvious mistakes. stand by, i'll clean it up for you | 08:44 |
systemdlete | gnarface: This is the file shipped with the ISO. All I did was comment out the cdrom lines and uncomment the deb lines for the other repos | 08:44 |
systemdlete | If there is an error, I didn't do it! | 08:44 |
gnarface | it is just incomplete, that is all | 08:45 |
systemdlete | So hopefully that will be corrected for the next RC? | 08:45 |
gnarface | the hosts file you did screw up by not paying attention to me, but it is easier to type than explain apparently | 08:45 |
gnarface | i don't know, i don't work here, fyi | 08:45 |
systemdlete | How did I screw up the hosts file? | 08:46 |
gnarface | here, try this hosts file instead http://paste.debian.net/1136287/ | 08:46 |
systemdlete | so I needed separate entries. OK. | 08:46 |
systemdlete | bad me | 08:46 |
gnarface | the ip addresses of deb.devuan.org and devuan.org don't go to the same place, that's all | 08:47 |
gnarface | i tried to explain that but you didn't seem to follow | 08:47 |
gnarface | it might have been my fault | 08:47 |
systemdlete | You did say that they are assigned on the fly | 08:49 |
gnarface | systemdlete: i was talking about group id's | 08:49 |
gnarface | separate conversation | 08:49 |
systemdlete | oh | 08:49 |
gnarface | here's a nice cleaned-up sources.list for you http://paste.debian.net/1136290/ | 08:50 |
onefang | deb.devuan.org is a round robin DNS, the IP you get from that is one of nine different IPs for one of nine different mirrors. | 08:51 |
gnarface | if you look at the comments in your old version, you'll see it actually made this mess because you didn't configure the network at install time | 08:51 |
gnarface | yea, deb.devuan.org seems to have dynamic ip addresses but they're actually quite static. there is a fixed number of them and they're not expected to change often. | 08:51 |
gnarface | i pasted them all in a pastebin somewhere above | 08:52 |
systemdlete | I DID configure the network for install, rather than use dhcp | 08:52 |
systemdlete | But I did this most recent install from the desktop ISO, not netinstall | 08:53 |
gnarface | what about the network mirror? it actually said it was about the mirror itself. that's why the cdrom was still in there | 08:53 |
gnarface | it was expecting you to continue using the cdrom as your primary apt source... | 08:53 |
systemdlete | I chose manual net setup. In fact, the /etc/network/interfaces file was produced by the install process | 08:54 |
gnarface | anyway, like i said, i don't work here. you can file a bug at bugs.devuan.org, but i'm not sure debian even does this part right... | 08:54 |
systemdlete | I hear what you are saying, but I pretty much took all the defaults, except the network which I chose to manually configure. I thought I did everything right becuase there were no issues with the install. | 08:55 |
gnarface | a sources.list file is a trivial thing to comprehend, and i just gave you a pristine example of a stock standard template for one | 08:55 |
systemdlete | OK, thanks, I will proceed to try this again. | 08:55 |
gnarface | hmmm. well if you want to explore the situation more, i would recommend trying the same disk, but this time pick expert mode to make sure you get all possible questions asked during install | 08:55 |
gnarface | and then make absolutely sure you pick a network mirror | 08:56 |
gnarface | it would also ask you if you want to include contrib and non-free around then... | 08:56 |
systemdlete | yeah. That's it. I did NOT pick expert mode this time. I just did the standard install. Please don't hit me for that. I simply forgot. | 08:56 |
gnarface | i'm not punishing you for it | 08:57 |
systemdlete | phew. | 08:57 |
gnarface | i just haven't done a non-expert mode install for so long i can't be sure what the install even does without expert mode | 08:57 |
gnarface | for that matter, i haven't ever tested the full disk install, even when i was back on debian. i've always used the netinstall, which *definitely* asks about network mirrors in expert mode, that i can be 100% sure of | 08:58 |
systemdlete | I did the network install without a problem. But I couldn't do updates (forgot about adjusting the sources.list file, then it would have proceeded) | 08:59 |
gnarface | don't mistake me trying to warn you that this is probably an old bug nobody in debian or devuan will ever fix for punishment or disparagement | 08:59 |
systemdlete | So I decided to try the 4G monster instead | 08:59 |
gnarface | well it would have continued to work if you hadn't commented it out of your sources.list :) | 09:00 |
gnarface | lol | 09:00 |
gnarface | sorry | 09:00 |
gnarface | i've been there before, exactly where you are | 09:00 |
gnarface | i can see it from the outside too | 09:00 |
gnarface | systemdlete: note that the sources.list i supplied you also included contrib. most the stuff in non-free is of much lower quality than stuff in main (purely incidentally, it seems) and does bad things like assuming you have contrib and the kitchen sink | 09:05 |
systemdlete2 | OK now here on my testbox | 09:06 |
systemdlete2 | back to the original issue about composition... | 09:06 |
gnarface | systemdlete2: so you want to always include contrib if you're including non-free. but if you know you don't need either, you're better off with just main | 09:06 |
gnarface | systemdlete2: oh, right. see which video driver you're using: lsmod |grep ^n -i | 09:07 |
gnarface | ("search the loaded module list for any lines beginning with "N" or "n") | 09:07 |
systemdlete2 | zip | 09:07 |
gnarface | interesting | 09:07 |
gnarface | not a nvidia card | 09:08 |
gnarface | dual-gpu laptop? | 09:08 |
systemdlete2 | It seems to detect one | 09:08 |
systemdlete2 | no, old, old mainboard | 09:08 |
systemdlete2 | systemdlete special | 09:08 |
gnarface | it's an onboard nvidia gpu? | 09:08 |
gnarface | i've seen the like | 09:08 |
systemdlete2 | I think so | 09:08 |
systemdlete2 | hold on | 09:08 |
gnarface | you have the display actually plugged into the motherboard's video port, not a pci/agp/pcie add-on in a slot, right? | 09:09 |
systemdlete2 | nvidia x server settings is in my menu | 09:09 |
systemdlete2 | sorry... it IS an addon slot | 09:09 |
systemdlete2 | I have the one for the main board also | 09:10 |
gnarface | what does this tell you? lspci |grep VGA | 09:10 |
gnarface | do you see one or two video cards? more? | 09:10 |
gnarface | my assumption here is it doesn't look like you expect because it's not using the same drivers. you've now provided some doubt as to whether it's even the same hardware... | 09:11 |
systemdlete2 | 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GT218 [GeForce 8400 GS Rev. 3] (rev a2) | 09:12 |
gnarface | just that one? | 09:12 |
systemdlete2 | yeah. | 09:12 |
gnarface | lemme double check, but i'm pretty sure that's too old for nvidia's current drivers | 09:12 |
gnarface | so that's gonna be one issue | 09:12 |
gnarface | you might have experienced a regression after they pulled support when your distro did too, because it used to be supported | 09:13 |
gnarface | NV50 family (Tesla) | 09:15 |
gnarface | yea that's ancient | 09:15 |
systemdlete | It is not even spec'd in the manual for the board! | 09:15 |
gnarface | well, i'm not sure why you're not getting nouveau loaded by default, but you can force xorg to do it | 09:15 |
gnarface | i wouldn't expect magic, but it might work better than the framebuffer driver or whatever you're loading now | 09:15 |
systemdlete | Trying to recall what I did for ASCII on the testbox... | 09:16 |
systemdlete | maybe non-free drivers? | 09:16 |
systemdlete | but I don't remember if that card was installed back then or not | 09:16 |
gnarface | ascii might have had old enough nvidia legacy drivers still packaged | 09:16 |
gnarface | but that card is now old enough i think even those legacy drivers are now too old to work with the kernel in beowulf | 09:16 |
systemdlete | the reason for the card, btw, was to get the HDMI port | 09:17 |
systemdlete | the card has VGA,HDI, and HDMI | 09:17 |
gnarface | oh, well nouveau won't help you then. it says right here that tv-out isn't working | 09:17 |
systemdlete | whereas the board only has VGA and HDI | 09:17 |
gnarface | https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/ | 09:17 |
gnarface | for the nv50 family, which yours appears to be (https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeNames/) | 09:17 |
gnarface | if the onboard is disabled in the bios it probably won't show up to linux, otherwise you should have seen it in the output of lspci | 09:18 |
systemdlete | can I use something like nmidecode to see what the bios is thinking? | 09:20 |
gnarface | yes | 09:20 |
systemdlete | hold on (switching again) | 09:21 |
gnarface | it is called dmidecode though | 09:21 |
systemdlete2 | http://paste.debian.net/1136293/ | 09:22 |
gnarface | lol | 09:23 |
gnarface | that was truly amusing, thank you | 09:23 |
gnarface | Reference Designation: To Be Filled By O.E.M. | 09:23 |
gnarface | Type: Video | 09:23 |
gnarface | hehe | 09:23 |
ErRandir | I'm on ASCII and have "NVIDIA Corporation GT218 [GeForce 310] (rev a2)". It is using nouveau | 09:23 |
systemdlete2 | Yeah | 09:23 |
systemdlete2 | Just like the manual! | 09:24 |
gnarface | systemdlete2: any chance you can get the latest bios from them still? | 09:24 |
systemdlete2 | I've flashed it. | 09:24 |
systemdlete2 | I am pretty sure I have the latest now | 09:24 |
gnarface | anything else in the output of lspci that looks like it could be it? | 09:24 |
systemdlete2 | no, sadly | 09:25 |
gnarface | alright, let's see your Xorg.0.log | 09:25 |
systemdlete2 | Maybe I should go back to the mystery mainboard VGA (ie, remove the card | 09:25 |
gnarface | it might matter to linux, if the bios refuses to post both of them together | 09:26 |
gnarface | check your bios options too, see if it has a setting | 09:26 |
systemdlete2 | Getting a lot of noise from pastebinit | 09:26 |
systemdlete2 | http://paste.debian.net/1136293/ | 09:26 |
gnarface | that's the same link | 09:27 |
gnarface | as the last one | 09:27 |
gnarface | did you mean to post something else? | 09:27 |
systemdlete2 | http://paste.debian.net/1136294/ | 09:27 |
gnarface | you said this was a stock kernel, right? | 09:30 |
gnarface | you didn't build a custom one? | 09:30 |
gnarface | systemdlete2? | 09:30 |
systemdlete2 | sorry, a bit slow here | 09:31 |
systemdlete2 | Yes, stock kernel | 09:31 |
gnarface | this log shows it apparently trying the nvidia driver, amongst several others, before settling on the vesa driver???? | 09:31 |
gnarface | i think that's what is happening | 09:31 |
gnarface | so shit is probably fuzzy because it's in a lower res? | 09:32 |
gnarface | anyway | 09:32 |
gnarface | i don't know why it's doing that, and you should do your full updates first to make sure it isn't fixed already, but it's easy enough to force it to stick with the nouveau driver with a xorg.conf snippet | 09:33 |
systemdlete2 | yes, def lower res! | 09:33 |
gnarface | you don't even need the whole config anymore, you just need the stanza that tells it which driver to use | 09:33 |
systemdlete2 | let me try higher res... | 09:33 |
gnarface | well, i should say you don't *necessarily* need the whole config anymore... i've found i still benefit from it especially with dual-screen configurations | 09:33 |
systemdlete2 | actually, this is the highest the UI allows-- 1024x768 | 09:34 |
gnarface | well i don't know for sure that card can do better | 09:34 |
gnarface | but i think it should... | 09:34 |
gnarface | but like i said, the vesa driver would probably limit your max res too | 09:34 |
gnarface | the UI is just drawing what xorg sees as possible | 09:35 |
systemdlete2 | I got better results with ascii | 09:35 |
gnarface | (i assume) | 09:35 |
gnarface | noted | 09:35 |
systemdlete2 | but again, I might have been using the onboard then | 09:35 |
gnarface | some times auto-detection capabilities are inherently regressive for certain users | 09:35 |
gnarface | i've experienced it myself | 09:35 |
gnarface | it decided the vesa driver was more appropriate for your hardware | 09:35 |
gnarface | but it's a default you can change easily | 09:36 |
systemdlete2 | So like, it sees that someguy called systemdlete is using the system, and it automatically... | 09:36 |
gnarface | i would myself change it | 09:36 |
systemdlete2 | :p | 09:36 |
gnarface | try this | 09:36 |
systemdlete2 | ok | 09:36 |
gnarface | run this command: man nouveau | 09:36 |
gnarface | see there under SYNOPSIS? | 09:37 |
systemdlete2 | yes | 09:37 |
gnarface | that's it | 09:37 |
gnarface | that's all you need in the xorg.conf | 09:37 |
gnarface | just take out the literal ... | 09:38 |
gnarface | there's options below but they're all optiona... | 09:38 |
gnarface | optional* | 09:38 |
gnarface | in this context, it doesn't matter what you put for devname | 09:39 |
gnarface | it could literally be just about anything | 09:39 |
gnarface | (it's just what other parts of the config would refer to it as, but since you don't have any other parts to this config it won't matter) | 09:39 |
gnarface | hmmm | 09:40 |
* onefang wathces systemdlete name it "just about anything" | 09:40 | |
systemdlete2 | the xorg.conf under /usr/share? | 09:40 |
systemdlete2 | onefang: LOL | 09:40 |
gnarface | systemdlete2: no put it in /etc/X11/ | 09:40 |
systemdlete2 | yeah, probably | 09:40 |
systemdlete2 | thre is no xorg.conf in /etc/X11 | 09:41 |
systemdlete2 | do I need to run somethig like xorgconfig | 09:41 |
systemdlete2 | or what | 09:41 |
gnarface | no just put it there and restart xorg | 09:41 |
systemdlete2 | xfsetup | 09:41 |
gnarface | no, you're not listening | 09:41 |
systemdlete2 | so copy the one from /usr/share, make the change, restart | 09:41 |
gnarface | you don't need the whole config anymore | 09:41 |
gnarface | you're overcomplicating it | 09:42 |
gnarface | just put the device section in | 09:42 |
gnarface | the part from the man page | 09:42 |
gnarface | Section "Device" | 09:42 |
gnarface | to EndSection | 09:42 |
gnarface | understand? | 09:42 |
gnarface | NOT the "..." | 09:42 |
systemdlete2 | yes, yes. I got that | 09:42 |
onefang | Create a new /etc/X11/xorg.conf. | 09:43 |
systemdlete2 | What I am seeing is "intel" for driver | 09:43 |
gnarface | no, use "nouveau" for driver | 09:44 |
gnarface | where are you seeing "intel" ? | 09:44 |
systemdlete2 | in that /usr/share file I gave | 09:44 |
gnarface | ignore that | 09:44 |
gnarface | i mean it | 09:44 |
gnarface | ignore that file | 09:44 |
gnarface | you are allowed to create a new empty /etc/X11/xorg.conf as root | 09:45 |
gnarface | just use a text file | 09:45 |
gnarface | it's not magic | 09:45 |
systemdlete2 | now I restart | 09:45 |
gnarface | good luck | 09:46 |
systemdlete | I've murdered it. The graphical interface is not restarting after I log out | 09:47 |
gnarface | systemdlete: :( just delete xorg.conf, it's not working apparently. | 09:47 |
onefang | Is that on logout, but not on reboot? | 09:48 |
systemdlete | I selected logout | 09:48 |
gnarface | hmm, reboot might help but it's a slim chance. most likely you need a newer kernel. | 09:48 |
systemdlete | gnarface: When you asked about upgrading the firmware, were you referring to that card or to my mainboard | 09:49 |
onefang | The X login manager might have got confused about the sudden change of graphics card, a reboot might help. | 09:49 |
gnarface | is beowulf-backports up? | 09:49 |
gnarface | systemdlete: the mainboard | 09:49 |
systemdlete | ok, just checking | 09:49 |
gnarface | systemdlete: that dmidecode dump you gave me was from the mainboard, right, not the card? | 09:49 |
onefang | beowulf-backports exists. | 09:49 |
systemdlete | "root> dmidecode " (ie, no options) | 09:50 |
onefang | There are even packages in it. | 09:50 |
systemdlete | or "# dmidecode" | 09:50 |
systemdlete | I forget what the PS1 was (I'm back on my main box again) | 09:50 |
systemdlete | Looks like I have the latest BIOS (2015) | 09:54 |
* systemdlete switches back to testbox | 09:54 | |
systemdlete2 | ok, that xorg.conf is gone | 09:57 |
systemdlete2 | I had to restart to | 09:58 |
systemdlete2 | nvm | 09:58 |
systemdlete | I am sure that the problem is superficial; it's the low resolution. The system works fine otherwise. | 09:59 |
gnarface | systemdlete: i recommend next you try out the backports kernel. a newer kernel will have a much newer version of nouveau, which in turn might improve your chances of having working support | 10:03 |
systemdlete | NV50 is not even listed on the nouveau man page | 10:03 |
gnarface | systemdlete: yea i see that but that may not be actually directly related. i'm certain nouveau gets updated more often than that man page | 10:04 |
systemdlete | right. So how do I get the newer kernel? I forget the "recipe" (apt options) | 10:04 |
gnarface | systemdlete: (enough more often that it might be worth you asking about this in #nouveau but i was hoping it wouldn't come to that) | 10:04 |
gnarface | ok so | 10:04 |
gnarface | just add a source like all the others called beowulf-backports | 10:04 |
systemdlete | right | 10:05 |
systemdlete | then update, upgrade | 10:05 |
gnarface | no no no | 10:05 |
gnarface | you don't want to do that | 10:05 |
gnarface | just get the kernel | 10:05 |
gnarface | and maybe mesa | 10:05 |
gnarface | add "-t beowulf-backports" to all commands | 10:05 |
systemdlete | ok | 10:05 |
gnarface | well | 10:05 |
gnarface | apt-get update, but not the blind apt-get upgrade | 10:06 |
gnarface | though, you should have done a apt-get update && apt-get upgrade already before this | 10:06 |
systemdlete | right, this sounds familiar now, thanks | 10:06 |
systemdlete | I did! | 10:06 |
systemdlete | only 11 packages | 10:06 |
gnarface | systemdlete: oh, alternately you could try the nvidia-legacy driver, it looks like that is still in beowulf, but a lot of things may not support it so it may not be useful anyway | 10:31 |
gnarface | depends on what you're doing with it probably | 10:32 |
gnarface | maybe the newer kernel will have better luck seeing the onboard card too... | 10:32 |
gnarface | seems unlikely but still possible | 10:32 |
systemdlete2 | 5.4.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 but nvidia drivers still fail to load upon boot. | 11:07 |
systemdlete2 | sorry for long delay, ate dinner | 11:07 |
gnarface | systemdlete2: nvidia or nouveau? | 11:11 |
gnarface | systemdlete2: you might try the nvidia-legacy driver, i noticed it is still in the beowulf repo | 11:11 |
hightower2 | d/join #talos-workstation | 11:11 |
hightower2 | (sorry) | 11:12 |
gnarface | your card may be too old for even that though, and if not, it may be too old for the programs you want to run anyway | 11:12 |
gnarface | but for science it might be worth the test | 11:12 |
systemdlete2 | tbh, gnarface... | 11:15 |
gnarface | just gonna stick with the vga driver? | 11:16 |
systemdlete2 | this board is a bit weird. The ethernet port works intermittently. I have to jiggle the connector until it works. I put another card in and it was working fine until a little while ago right after a boot. | 11:16 |
gnarface | i see | 11:16 |
systemdlete2 | So now it is back on the onboard ethernet port | 11:16 |
gnarface | so the hardware itself is suspect, noted | 11:17 |
gnarface | all i can suggest about that is to check dmesg | 11:17 |
gnarface | maybe there will be some telling errors | 11:17 |
gnarface | there might just be nothing that can be done, but if you ask about the card in #nouveau they might have patches for you to test on a bleeding-edge kernel | 11:18 |
gnarface | (with the nouveau driver of course... the nvidia people will not offer the same sort of support for the nvidia-legacy driver) | 11:19 |
systemdlete2 | udevd[119]: Error running install command for nvidia | 11:23 |
systemdlete2 | just for full disclosure, adelie also experienced problems with the eth port. In fact, I added the extra eth port while muddling my way through that install process. | 11:26 |
systemdlete2 | continuing to browse dmesg output | 11:27 |
systemdlete2 | udevd[438]: Error running install command for nvidia | 11:28 |
systemdlete2 | funny, tries it multiple times? | 11:28 |
onefang | Would help if it told you what that error is. | 11:28 |
onefang | Maybe the numbers are error codes? | 11:28 |
gnarface | could it be a mundane permissions issue? | 11:29 |
systemdlete2 | permissions issue so soon after installation? Maybe, but wouldn't that be a bit odd? | 11:32 |
gnarface | well it depends on what is causing that error | 11:32 |
gnarface | nvidia official drivers may require xorg be suid root, and for your user to be added to the "video" group by default, for xorg to start | 11:33 |
gnarface | the open-source nouveau drivers afaik do not though, anymore | 11:34 |
systemdlete2 | find shows me that there is only one module for nvidia under /lib/modules for the 4.19.0 kernel, but it is under ethernet | 11:34 |
systemdlete2 | is it called something else for video? | 11:35 |
gnarface | hmmm | 11:35 |
gnarface | ok so to be clear | 11:35 |
systemdlete2 | The 5.4.0 /lib/modules has the same, but also dkms modules for nvidia | 11:35 |
gnarface | the open-source nouveau driver is packaged with the kernel | 11:35 |
gnarface | the closed-source nvidia driver is packaged separately | 11:35 |
systemdlete2 | oh | 11:35 |
gnarface | so | 11:36 |
systemdlete2 | so I should look for nouveau | 11:36 |
gnarface | yea, and there's another distinction | 11:36 |
gnarface | nouveau uses mesa, but nvidia has a built-in opengl implementation instead | 11:36 |
gnarface | dih | 11:37 |
gnarface | doh | 11:37 |
gnarface | bad ethernet port i guess | 11:37 |
systemdlete | no | 11:37 |
systemdlete | that was ME | 11:37 |
systemdlete | guess what I tried to do? "modprobe nouveau" -- the screen went blank and that's the last I've heard from the system | 11:38 |
systemdlete | maybe it needs parameters | 11:38 |
gnarface | yikes | 11:38 |
gnarface | yea maybe | 11:38 |
gnarface | hard to say | 11:38 |
gnarface | did anything else appear in the Xorg.0.log when that happened? | 11:39 |
gnarface | a black screen with a compositing window manager could just be a mesa issue too | 11:39 |
gnarface | you'll need the mesa from backports as well | 11:39 |
systemdlete | I wouldn't know -- when I say "blank" I could not get a console login either | 11:40 |
systemdlete | I'll have to reboot | 11:40 |
gnarface | ctrl+alt+f2 doesn't help? | 11:40 |
systemdlete | noop | 11:40 |
gnarface | damn | 11:41 |
systemdlete | The board never gave me many problems until recently. | 11:41 |
gnarface | well it could be dead but at this point i haven't seen proof it's not a software regression | 11:41 |
systemdlete | I might hook up a separate monitor to pursue the rest of this ... it takes like 8 seconds to switch the monitor between DVI and HDMI | 11:41 |
systemdlete | I have main box hooked up via HDMI on a USB kvm switch | 11:42 |
systemdlete | testbox is on completely separate mouse, monitor and kb | 11:42 |
systemdlete | connected by VGA though | 11:42 |
systemdlete | I have an extra monitor which would suffice | 11:42 |
systemdlete | This is a two-year old monitor and I've not had any issues with it. | 11:43 |
systemdlete | even with the switching, which I realize is not ideal since it has to re-sync to the video cards each time | 11:43 |
systemdlete | now I cant get either ethernet port to work | 12:00 |
gnarface | is it just loose? something that could be fixed by hand? | 12:01 |
systemdlete | Here is something interesting: The port light is on until the the boot tries to load the nouveau driver | 12:04 |
systemdlete | I can faithfully repeat this test | 12:04 |
systemdlete | I'm going to try booting adelie and see if there is any difference. BTW, adelie gets the higher res | 12:06 |
systemdlete | This is a diff monitor though, so final result will be slightly lower | 12:06 |
systemdlete | yep. It gets 1280x1024, which is the full res of that monitor. | 12:08 |
gnarface | any way to find out what driver that is using? | 12:09 |
systemdlete | nouveau | 12:09 |
systemdlete | in spades | 12:09 |
gnarface | hmmm | 12:09 |
systemdlete | lsmod has about 10 lines of output | 12:09 |
gnarface | what kernel version? | 12:09 |
systemdlete | it's easy-kernel 5.4.5 | 12:09 |
systemdlete | note that the kernel has time64 backported to it, plus some other stuff ported forward (idr what though) | 12:10 |
gnarface | hmm | 12:10 |
gnarface | did you try kernel 5.4 on devuan yet? | 12:10 |
systemdlete | yeah. That's the current one | 12:10 |
systemdlete | it's 5.4.0 | 12:11 |
gnarface | hmm | 12:11 |
systemdlete | also, keep in mind that the entire adelie system is musl based | 12:11 |
gnarface | so it works in adelie but not devuan? so it is either patches or configs... | 12:11 |
gnarface | or that mesa build | 12:11 |
systemdlete | configs! | 12:12 |
systemdlete | maybe I can hijack the xorg.conf file | 12:12 |
systemdlete | or parts of it | 12:12 |
gnarface | worth a try | 12:12 |
systemdlete | I can crossmount the partition and copy it over | 12:12 |
systemdlete | no xorg.conf on adelie... | 12:15 |
systemdlete | also no files in xorg.conf.d | 12:15 |
gnarface | strange | 12:15 |
systemdlete | well, same on devuan | 12:15 |
gnarface | maybe they actually have a patched-up nouveau driver? | 12:16 |
gnarface | maybe it's got fancy fixes not in mainline? | 12:16 |
gnarface | or maybe it is something else | 12:16 |
gnarface | like the mesa version or xorg version... | 12:16 |
gnarface | hmmm... | 12:16 |
gnarface | i just don't know | 12:17 |
gnarface | maybe adelie just puts the xorg.conf somewhere else | 12:17 |
gnarface | or maybe it is actually module options or something that is the magic trick | 12:17 |
systemdlete | nope. I just did a find on the whole adelie partition. | 12:17 |
systemdlete | I forget where the module options are kept. I looked at the files in /lib/modules on the adelie partition | 12:19 |
systemdlete | is it under /etc | 12:19 |
systemdlete | there is a file called nvidia.conf in (adelie) /etc/modules-load.d | 12:20 |
systemdlete | it just contains "nvidia-drm" | 12:20 |
gnarface | in devuan they are in files in /etc/modprobe.d/ | 12:21 |
gnarface | filed ending in .conf | 12:22 |
systemdlete | ah, that's it | 12:22 |
systemdlete | (it's been years...) | 12:22 |
systemdlete | funny. there is no /etc/modprobe.d for adelie | 12:23 |
systemdlete | maybe I should roll back to the 4.19 kernel on devuan beowulf | 12:24 |
gnarface | did you get mesa from backports or not? | 12:24 |
systemdlete | oh, not yet, no | 12:24 |
gnarface | i would say yes, try 4.19 with the backports mesa, next | 12:24 |
systemdlete | ok, but I do see that there are many mesa packages | 12:26 |
gnarface | i'm sorry i don't know which you need but you probably need all of them. and you need to make sure none of the old ones are left behind on your install too | 12:27 |
gnarface | systemdlete: wait. maybe try the nvidia-legacy driver first because that will take less time? | 12:28 |
systemdlete | ok | 12:28 |
gnarface | same rule as mesa applies though, you have to get rid of all traces of any other versions of the nvidia driver | 12:29 |
systemdlete | network problems here again... dns | 12:32 |
gnarface | i'm telling you man, use local dns, it's better | 12:32 |
systemdlete | It is local; it's on my firewall box | 12:33 |
gnarface | it's not just using your ISP's servers as forwarders for all requests? | 12:34 |
systemdlete | No. | 12:34 |
systemdlete | It runs a DNS server called unbound. | 12:34 |
gnarface | oh, and that queries root servers? | 12:34 |
systemdlete | It works reliably enough. | 12:34 |
systemdlete | no, it queries whichever DNS servers I choose. RIght now, I'm using ones at 216.146.35.35 and 36 | 12:35 |
systemdlete | 216.146.36.36 | 12:35 |
gnarface | oh, i see | 12:35 |
gnarface | those might be overloaded | 12:35 |
systemdlete | those have dnssec | 12:35 |
systemdlete | right | 12:35 |
systemdlete | I mean, I could run dnsmasq on this box | 12:36 |
systemdlete | it does some cacheing | 12:36 |
systemdlete | oh, and whaddayknow. It already does run dnsmasq | 12:36 |
systemdlete | I can ping the address that dnsmasq returns, but I can't ping it by dns name | 12:39 |
systemdlete | (devuan.org in this case) | 12:39 |
systemdlete | It's back yay | 12:39 |
gnarface | wait, the root servers don't have dnssec? | 12:40 |
gnarface | my point in recommending using them was just that 1) there is a lot of them, so no load issues 2) they're the default in bind9 | 12:41 |
systemdlete | I chose these to avoid tracking by my ISP, or Google, or the like | 12:42 |
systemdlete | That was the other reason I chose them | 12:42 |
gnarface | systemdlete: i'm not saying your reasoning for choosing that one was unsound, i'm saying you need more of them though | 12:56 |
systemdlete | nvidia-persistenced failed to start | 12:57 |
gnarface | like, 12 more of them, but 2 would just make a big difference | 12:57 |
systemdlete | ok, so how would I do that? | 12:57 |
systemdlete | Ipfire limits me to just 2 dns servers I think | 12:57 |
gnarface | i don't know, like i said it's the default in bind | 12:58 |
systemdlete | I really think the problem is that, because I'm in California, and everyone in this state is home bound now, and they're trying to enjoy streaming netflix and whatnot, Comcast's network is probably taxed to the hilt | 12:59 |
gnarface | that's very likely also an issue, i'm just straight up telling you how to sidestep it | 13:00 |
systemdlete | I did a download test a few times over the past few days. I am getting about 85mbps down, which is a bit off from the 95mbps down I usually get. But that does nothing as far as actually running networking software (which is kind of most of the software universe) | 13:00 |
systemdlete | I'll look at setting up bind on my workbox (the testbox gets routed through there) behind the firewall. | 13:01 |
gnarface | yea, that's evidence it's just that dns server... if the network was actually congested you'd be down alot more than 10mbps | 13:01 |
systemdlete | And what I am figuring out is that many clients like browsers do a dns lookup EVERY time they do a fetch -- I think it is a security issue | 13:02 |
gnarface | if the network was congested enough to be bottlenecking your connection to the dns server it would be down to only bytes per second | 13:02 |
gnarface | firefox i think only does the lookup once per run. you have to restart it to get it to recognize dns name changes | 13:02 |
gnarface | at least it used to be that way... | 13:03 |
gnarface | but that's what dnsmasq is for, limiting those every-time lookups | 13:03 |
systemdlete | I'm no sort of expert, but I think it has something to do with services that use pools of IP addresses. | 13:03 |
gnarface | and you're already using dnsmasq, so no problem there | 13:03 |
gnarface | the real issue is the system was never meant to be used the way you're using it | 13:04 |
gnarface | you are supposed to have at least two, preferrably 3 upstream resolvers | 13:04 |
gnarface | bind by default uses like 12 or 18 or whatever it is... | 13:05 |
gnarface | (not actually sure the number but it is more than 2) | 13:05 |
gnarface | yes, there is a huge security issue if you don't trust them | 13:05 |
gnarface | they can lie to you and they can see what you're looking up | 13:06 |
gnarface | i really recommend not using google's | 13:06 |
systemdlete | It looks like it might take additional servers... | 13:06 |
systemdlete | (ipfire) | 13:06 |
systemdlete | so maybe it is possible | 13:06 |
gnarface | it would honestly be dumb for it not to, but i've never used it | 13:06 |
systemdlete | so the testbox, after installing the backport nvidia packages, is hanging the same way as it did when I tried to force load the nvidia driver | 13:09 |
gnarface | is there nvidia-legacy drivers? | 13:12 |
systemdlete | (I have added 2 additional DNS resolvers in my IPFire; thank you) | 13:12 |
systemdlete | I have no idea. I will need to reboot | 13:13 |
systemdlete | I tried to install nvidia legacy server, but it fails | 13:18 |
systemdlete | I see that when I check the dns servers, those 2 I have been using often get errors while the new ones don't. | 13:22 |
systemdlete | but normally, they do work | 13:22 |
systemdlete | I'm going to hang it up for now, gnarface. Thanks again for your help. I'll come back to this. | 13:33 |
gnarface | systemdlete: sorry we couldn't figure it out. maybe you could just rob that kernel and all the modules from adelie | 13:34 |
systemdlete | if only I had the wits for all that | 13:35 |
gnarface | well how is their support? they might know what makes it so special | 13:35 |
systemdlete | I can try to inquire. If I can get a hold of the main project leader, he can be helpful. But this individual is very busy and I try not to interrupt the work they're doing. | 13:52 |
systemdlete | The other lead is a bit on the irrascible side. I avoid that interaction as much as I can. | 13:52 |
systemdlete | I'm trying harder to be more independent in all of these channels. But sometimes I get stuck and can't figure out what to do next. | 13:53 |
tuxd3v | hello all, | 15:05 |
tuxd3v | New DevuanImage Available to Radaxa RockPi4A: | 15:05 |
tuxd3v | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3389 | 15:05 |
tuxd3v | its the first beta, but it seems prety stable and wel supported, in fact I am amazed by the support level for this great board | 15:06 |
tuxd3v | hello all, | 20:44 |
tuxd3v | I need some advice to test sound using only alsa :) | 20:44 |
specing | $ aplay | 20:45 |
debdog | speaker-test | 20:46 |
tuxd3v | specing, hello, thanks | 20:46 |
tuxd3v | I run 'aplay -l' | 20:46 |
tuxd3v | https://paste2.org/UwJthIgP | 20:46 |
tuxd3v | but I can't settuo audio :( | 20:46 |
tuxd3v | amixer sayd no sound card found :( | 20:47 |
tuxd3v | maybe Ineed a hdmi monitor attached :) | 21:03 |
debdog | not that I have a clue, tuxd3v, but what kind of computor/device is that? | 21:04 |
debdog | also, there is alsa-info.sh to gather, well, info. http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh | 21:05 |
* debdog uspects some $fruitorberryPi | 21:06 | |
tuxd3v | debdog, you are right, its a sbc board :) | 21:13 |
expert975 | I want to move away from systemd. What init system would you recommend? | 22:31 |
fsmithred | sysvinit is the default and has been around long enough to be well known | 22:34 |
expert975 | I'll look into it | 22:36 |
golinux | (an expert has to ask that question?) | 22:36 |
expert975 | Does it do daemon management? I guess I would miss that | 22:36 |
expert975 | golinux: that's how one becomes an expert | 22:36 |
golinux | LOL! | 22:37 |
tuxd3v | expert975, yes it does daemon management :) | 22:38 |
tuxd3v | ofcourse ;) | 22:38 |
tuxd3v | welcome | 22:39 |
fsmithred | expert975, I've been using linux for almost 20 years, and I don't ever need to mess with the init system. | 22:39 |
fsmithred | except to occasionally stop or start a service | 22:39 |
expert975 | Did the systemd philosophy cripple the development of projects it has replaced? | 22:41 |
rrq | so why do you want to move away from systemd? | 22:43 |
expert975 | Because it's too big to fail | 22:44 |
golinux | If you are not knowledgeable about init systems? | 22:44 |
fsmithred | lol | 22:44 |
fsmithred | it's big and complex enough to sell service contracts, and this is pretty much OT for this channel | 22:45 |
expert975 | golinux: that's exactly the point: I want something simpler so I can learn more about how init systems work | 22:45 |
fsmithred | is there something in particular you need to do with it? | 22:45 |
golinux | But if this conversation moves to that debate, please take it to #debianfork | 22:45 |
fsmithred | there are some simpler init systems you can try | 22:46 |
fsmithred | check forum and mailing list for previous discussions | 22:46 |
expert975 | fsmithred: my usecase is a desktop computer that I use daily | 22:46 |
fsmithred | start with sysvinit | 22:47 |
fsmithred | then maybe try runit or another in a VM | 22:47 |
fsmithred | or write your own. I've never done it, but I understand that you can do the bare minimum in a few lines of code. | 22:47 |
expert975 | fsmithred: I might do that on my raspberrypi | 22:48 |
fsmithred | good way to learn | 22:48 |
fsmithred | you don't have to be afraid of breaking your system | 22:48 |
fsmithred | maybe even look forward to doing that | 22:48 |
expert975 | Using make as the init system looks fun | 23:55 |
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