Guest72323 | g4570n: i'm in #devuan-mx | 00:04 |
---|---|---|
golinux | Guest72323: There is also now #devuan-es | 00:05 |
g4570n | hola Guest72323 estamos en #devuan-es :) | 00:05 |
Guest72323 | ok | 00:05 |
golinux | g4570n: Ha! Beat you! | 00:05 |
g4570n | golinux: xD | 00:06 |
fsmithred | how do I figure out why it takes half a minute for the system to respond when I give the root password? | 00:30 |
fsmithred | in a terminal on the desktop. | 00:30 |
fsmithred | Only happens in the i386, not the amd64. Both VMs. | 00:31 |
rrq | 1) tcpdump of external interface, 2) "top -d 0.2" | 00:32 |
rrq | for a VM it might be the host's file system as well | 00:32 |
Guest72323 | golinux: don't neglect yur garden | 00:32 |
Guest72323 | *your* | 00:33 |
rrq | and the VM might sit in the swap | 00:33 |
meep_____ | Guest72323, "You're" | 00:35 |
Guest72323 | nope: your... | 00:37 |
Guest72323 | *your* garden | 00:37 |
Guest72323 | instead of *yur* | 00:37 |
Guest72323 | bye :) | 00:37 |
MinceR | Theiyr're | 00:38 |
meep_____ | Mah | 00:39 |
Guest72323 | ? | 00:40 |
meep_____ | Muh garden | 00:40 |
Guest72323 | running away from here! | 00:40 |
Guest72323 | aitor fled #devuan | 00:41 |
fsmithred | takes about 30 seconds for the desktop to come up after the login screen | 00:47 |
fsmithred | everything else seems to work normal speed | 00:47 |
koollman | fsmithred: 30s might be some dns request and timeout, or some other network related thing | 00:49 |
fsmithred | why would dns be involved? | 00:49 |
fsmithred | oh | 00:49 |
fsmithred | it might | 00:49 |
fsmithred | I should get out of my chair and use the keyboard that's attached to that computer instead of doing it over vnc | 00:50 |
koollman | I don't know your setup. but 30s is a really typical network timeout :) | 00:51 |
fsmithred | that didn't help | 00:51 |
koollman | maybe it's trying to log the hostname of the remote access, and that takes 30s to fail | 00:51 |
fsmithred | local login is the same | 00:51 |
koollman | or you have something in your pam setup that takes 30s to fail, too | 00:51 |
fsmithred | maybe. Two nearly identical installs, only the i386 has the problem. | 00:52 |
fsmithred | I'll make a live iso and put it on usb to see if it's the same. | 00:52 |
meep_____ | Netbsd might be better for that kind of hardware | 00:58 |
* golinux missed greeting aitor. Was in the garden! | 00:59 | |
meep_____ | What man page contains the codes for what each of these %n does? | 01:09 |
meep_____ | sysctl -w kernel.core_pattern=/var/crash/%t.%p.%u.%e.core | 01:09 |
meep_____ | I knot t is time, p is program name, u is user, and e is PID | 01:10 |
meep_____ | But where is the documentation | 01:10 |
rrq | man core | 01:15 |
meep_____ | Is there are reason not to enable ulimited size core dumps for everybody on the system? | 01:15 |
bpmedley | meep_____ : Imo, depends on your users. Will the disk get filled up with tons of core dumps? | 01:38 |
meep_____ | Not any more than i can clean out | 03:12 |
meep_____ | It's a extraordinary thing for programs to crash | 03:13 |
meep_____ | On my systems | 03:13 |
meep_____ | So if it happens I want to know why | 03:13 |
Hurgotron | meep_____: reproducible issue? Last time I had programs crashing / segfaulting I had bad memory. That took me a LONG time to find out. Been using ECC memory whereever possible since then... | 03:41 |
meep_____ | That could explain some crashes | 03:47 |
meep_____ | But like i said, not happening often enough | 03:48 |
meep_____ | The worst thing is when it happens on a virtual machine container on a server that has ECC | 03:48 |
meep_____ | Like the other day | 03:48 |
meep_____ | My Prosody server crashed 2 times | 03:48 |
meep_____ | By the time i turned on core dumps i has not happened since | 03:48 |
meep_____ | To this day the issue has not reproduced | 03:48 |
meep_____ | It worries me when I have ECC ram, and an internet facing daemon is segfaulting | 03:49 |
ShorTie | who ever decided to put all that gnome junk with ssh is kinda conceited, imho | 13:06 |
ShorTie | why oh why is what i ask ?? | 13:09 |
cosurgi | ShorTie: which ssh package depends on gnome junk? | 15:49 |
sixwheeledbeast | askpass-gnome was split out to remove dependency on GTK | 15:59 |
MSIVITALER^3I_ | Im curious does the devuan project hve any interest in FSF FSDG | 17:24 |
fsmithred | MSIVITALER^3I_, we've discussed the idea of adding a libre branch to the repo so that people could install that way if they wanted. But that's a long way off. Too much other stuff to do first. | 17:38 |
Guest25177 | MSIVITALER^3I_: *Im curious does the devuan project have any interest in FSF FSDG* | 18:36 |
Guest25177 | the answer is: yes. | 18:37 |
Guest25177 | there are some devuan derivatives focused to this goal | 18:38 |
Guest25177 | today i'm reading some documentation about docker, because i've never used it | 18:39 |
Guest25177 | i installed docker.io and run "docker images -a" without results | 18:40 |
MSIVITALER^3I_ | ok sounds good. Cheers for fast feedback | 19:21 |
Guest58982 | for example: heads, ethertics and gnuinos... another one gone away? | 19:45 |
Guest58982 | maybe dynebolic, in a future | 19:51 |
golinux | aitor never stays for long . . . :( | 19:55 |
meep_____ | ยป <sixwheeledbeast> askpass-gnome was split out to remove dependency on GTK | 20:47 |
meep_____ | hey, that's actually an issue i'm trying to solve too | 20:47 |
meep_____ | sixwheeledbeast: if you find out a solution to revert it back to the gimp toolkit instead of the gnome toolkit please ping me | 20:48 |
meep_____ | Or what package is doing that | 20:48 |
meep_____ | I think it's pinentry | 20:48 |
meep_____ | But i'm not sure | 20:48 |
sixwheeledbeast | you should be able to check what the packages depend on | 20:49 |
meep_____ | The problem is i don't know what the binary is for the gnome popup that asks you for your key | 20:51 |
aitor | golinux: i'm here | 20:52 |
bleb | in xfce, how do you turn off the xlock/xscreensaver thing which prompts you for a password whenever it wakes up from sleep? | 20:56 |
bleb | I have set "disable screen saver" in screensaver preferences, but the lock screen still comes up when waking up. | 20:56 |
fsmithred | bleb, check power manager settings | 20:58 |
furrywolf | you have to do it in like four places in the power management settings too | 20:58 |
bleb | i disabled the xfce power manager in order to get suspend working | 20:59 |
fsmithred | I've never seen it as the default setting | 20:59 |
fsmithred | bleb, did you install xfce from the tasksel menu in the install iso? Or did you install it in pieces? | 21:00 |
bleb | fsmithred: the install iso | 21:00 |
bleb | beowulf | 21:00 |
fsmithred | ok, so nothing should be missing | 21:00 |
fsmithred | assuming you selected a mirror | 21:00 |
bleb | yes | 21:01 |
fsmithred | did you log out of desktop after changing power manager settings? That might be necessary. Not sure. | 21:03 |
fsmithred | I would go through all the settings again. | 21:03 |
fsmithred | meep_____, maybe gnome-keyring or ssh-askpass-gnome | 21:04 |
bleb | i can't access the xfce power manager settings without enabling xfce power manager, which causes suspend to stop working | 21:04 |
bleb | i think it's caused by /etc/acpi/lid.sh | 21:04 |
fsmithred | that's odd. | 21:04 |
fsmithred | I have power manager enabled and can suspend fine | 21:05 |
fsmithred | I do have to select it from the logout menu - does not happen on lid close | 21:05 |
bleb | if xscreensaver is running, it runs xscreensaver-command -deactivate which i guess must hook into xlock or something | 21:05 |
bleb | and for some reason xscreensaver was running even though it was disabled in xfce settings. i will try rebooting and see if xscreensaver still runs in the background. | 21:06 |
mason | This is where IMHO desktop environments are more trouble than they're worth. | 21:06 |
bleb | fsmithred: maybe suspend worked but i had to disable xfce power manager to get suspend on lid close working | 21:06 |
fsmithred | I lock the screen with xscreensaver, but I don't let it run | 21:06 |
fsmithred | oh, that could be | 21:07 |
bleb | yeah so xscreensaver is running in the background again after rebooting | 21:09 |
bleb | and it's locking again when i open the lid | 21:09 |
bleb | so something is starting xscreensaver | 21:10 |
bleb | pstree has it branching off from xfce4-session-+-Thunar---2*[{Thunar}] | 21:12 |
fsmithred | look in Session and Startup, Autostart applications | 21:12 |
bleb | ah yeah | 21:12 |
bleb | Screensaver (Launch screensaver and locker program) | 21:13 |
bleb | that was checked | 21:13 |
bleb | i will uncheck it and that should fix it | 21:13 |
fsmithred | that should help | 21:13 |
* enyc meows | 21:14 | |
* furrywolf pets the meowing | 21:28 | |
bleb | yup all is well | 21:43 |
meep_____ | Does anybody know where I can get an aarch64 laptop? | 22:28 |
meep_____ | I type that search term into amazon or ebay and duckduckgo and all i get is garbage X86 desktops | 22:29 |
meep_____ | Running windows | 22:29 |
specing | meep_____: pinebook? | 22:30 |
specing | olimex has a laptop as well | 22:30 |
meep_____ | no not a pinebook | 22:34 |
meep_____ | I need something to replace the IBM t/60 | 22:34 |
meep_____ | something with a real keyboard and built to last at least 6+ years | 22:34 |
meep_____ | not something designed to be a macbook clone | 22:35 |
specing | so like another T400? | 22:35 |
specing | T60* | 22:35 |
specing | get it on ebay | 22:35 |
meep_____ | my computers are investments not disposable cheapo plastic products | 22:35 |
meep_____ | yeah, sorta like that except not intel based | 22:36 |
specing | good luck, then | 22:36 |
meep_____ | that obscure huh? | 22:37 |
meep_____ | ok where can I learn how to design a replacement motherboard then? | 22:37 |
meep_____ | the closest thing to what i need is the Theombra Systems Haiku evaluation board | 22:39 |
specing | meep_____: the hardest part is the case | 22:39 |
specing | you can take a premade laptop board and create a "real laptop" around it | 22:39 |
meep_____ | specing: If I am going to design my own motherboard I'd just re-use surplus IBM T60 parts | 22:40 |
specing | okay then | 22:40 |
specing | Start small | 22:40 |
meep_____ | but yeah, I can't use pop in a theombra mobo | 22:40 |
meep_____ | into a t60 | 22:40 |
meep_____ | my biggest complaint about the theombra is that it doesn't have socketed DRAM | 22:41 |
meep_____ | it's on the compute module | 22:41 |
specing | Usually that's because the processors themselves don't support more | 22:41 |
meep_____ | I don't mind having the CPU on a card, but in the future i might want tochange the ram | 22:41 |
specing | for ARM you have to take a thunderX if you want e.g. 64GB RAM | 22:41 |
meep_____ | I don't see such a limitation for the RK3399 | 22:42 |
meep_____ | Memory: | 22:42 |
meep_____ | Dual channels 64-bit DRAM controller | 22:42 |
meep_____ | Support DDR3/DDR3L, LPDDR3, LPDDR4 | 22:42 |
meep_____ | http://opensource.rock-chips.com/wiki_RK3399 | 22:42 |
specing | rk3399 has max 4 gb iirc | 22:42 |
meep_____ | are you sure? | 22:44 |
meep_____ | hmm | 22:44 |
specing | Support up to 2 ranks (chip selects) for each channel; totally 4GB(max) address space. Maximum address space of one rank in a channel is also 4GB, which is software-configurable 32bits/64bits data width is software programmable | 22:44 |
specing | http://www.rockchip.fr/RK3399%20datasheet%20V1.8.pdf | 22:45 |
meep_____ | thanks | 22:45 |
meep_____ | do you know of any other aarch64 cpus with big-little arch and decent hardware offload capabilities? | 22:46 |
specing | yes | 22:46 |
specing | ThunderX | 22:46 |
specing | Actually, that one might be just big | 22:46 |
specing | it's a server cpu line | 22:46 |
meep_____ | i don't know if that has what i need | 22:47 |
meep_____ | power wise | 22:47 |
specing | some cpus have configurable TDP | 22:47 |
meep_____ | the reason why i wanted big-little was because this is for laptop usage | 22:47 |
specing | like POWER9 | 22:47 |
meep_____ | a lot of the time the system is very little usage with momentary spikes | 22:47 |
meep_____ | it would begood to turn some cores entirely off except during peak loads | 22:48 |
tuxd3v_ | meep_____, for rk3399 you have already rockpi4, and its supported with devuan :) | 22:50 |
tuxd3v_ | but its a sbc | 22:50 |
specing | meep wants a real laptop | 22:51 |
* tuxd3v_ tuxd3v also wants one :) | 22:51 | |
specing | forget about it, just stock up on t400 | 22:51 |
meep_____ | hmm | 22:52 |
meep_____ | maybe i could deal with 4 | 22:52 |
meep_____ | but I would be very happy with 8GB DDR4 ECC | 22:53 |
specing | 4? | 22:53 |
meep_____ | 4 gigssystem memory | 22:53 |
specing | haha, ECC in laptop... good luck | 22:53 |
meep_____ | yeah | 22:54 |
meep_____ | I never poweroff it off | 22:54 |
meep_____ | sandby->on_standby->on | 22:54 |
meep_____ | i will have very high uptimes | 22:54 |
meep_____ | and if I could use aarch64, i wouldn't have to put it on a dock charger every night | 22:55 |
meep_____ | *eery other night with fresh cells | 22:55 |
meep_____ | and I could passively cool, so no moving parts | 22:55 |
meep_____ | no motors to run | 22:55 |
meep_____ | no dust to get inside | 22:55 |
meep_____ | i already 100% passively cool the workstation I am talking to you on right now | 22:56 |
meep_____ | and semi-passively my faster workstation on the other room | 22:56 |
Guest81407 | let me open a parenthesis: i was wrong about the docker's "docker images -a" command above, it lists the *downloaded* images via "docker pull distro:version" | 22:57 |
meep_____ | i don't think stockpiling older thinkpad parts is going to work for many more years | 22:58 |
specing | meep_____: active cooling is fine, as long as it is easy to clean | 22:58 |
meep_____ | specing: but for laptop workloads active cooling is completely exccessive | 22:59 |
specing | meep_____: I don't think we'll get any real laptop running fully libre software anytime soon | 22:59 |
specing | meep_____: I guess we have different ideas about what laptop workloads are | 22:59 |
meep_____ | the only reason laptops need active cooling is either because they build them too thin for stupid marketing reasons or they run X86 | 22:59 |
specing | one of my T400 has been at 95'C for the past 20 hours with 6k rpm fan and another one blowing over the whole laptop | 22:59 |
specing | s/x86/have actually some performance/ | 23:00 |
specing | all the ARMs you can buy in various devkits are a joke, performance wise | 23:00 |
meep_____ | yes | 23:00 |
specing | sure, some of them manage to outperform a 2008 intel these days | 23:01 |
meep_____ | but arm isn't isn't | 23:01 |
meep_____ | you get get decent arm cpus | 23:01 |
specing | But you can't get a Cavium cpu | 23:01 |
specing | you can't | 23:01 |
meep_____ | the SBCs are more or less toys for schools or eval boards | 23:01 |
specing | yes | 23:01 |
specing | there is just no real market for high-perf arm | 23:02 |
meep_____ | I'm not looking for high-perf arm | 23:02 |
specing | .. | 23:02 |
meep_____ | i'm looking for better than what intel could do 10 years ago but in a power effiecent package suitable for a battery power budget | 23:02 |
meep_____ | I still use the Core2 Duo 1Ghz as a baseline cpu for testing if the software I use and develop should be reworked or not | 23:03 |
meep_____ | it said software can't perform at least somewhat comfortable to use on that machine, then I need to look elsewhere | 23:04 |
meep_____ | but going forward, I would appreciate a machine running the same efficient software, but with more headroom and better multitasking ability | 23:04 |
meep_____ | i only use open source software, so it's literally for me just a matter of obtaining a C cross compiler | 23:05 |
meep_____ | I do crazy high-perf workloads on the worstation | 23:06 |
meep_____ | or SSH into the workstation (or wiregaurd vpn) with X11 forwarding for doing compute heavy tasks | 23:06 |
specing | > meep_____ | I still use the Core2 Duo 1Ghz | 23:06 |
specing | use cgroups cpu share limiter | 23:06 |
meep_____ | specing: why do you say a cavium cpu is unobtainable? | 23:07 |
specing | try to obtain it | 23:07 |
golinux | (meep_____ and specing go down the rabbit hole) | 23:08 |
meep_____ | you have experience with this? | 23:08 |
specing | meep_____: no, but I tried looking it up online and couldn't find anything purchaseable/affordable | 23:09 |
specing | https://www.phoenicselectronics.com/marvell/cavium-dev-kit.html | 23:09 |
specing | woo, devkit only $27995 | 23:09 |
specing | CHEAP | 23:09 |
meep_____ | then lets go back to the rockchip if nothing else | 23:15 |
specing | no | 23:18 |
specing | it sucks | 23:18 |
meep_____ | I've already tried contacting broadcom | 23:18 |
specing | in 2020 I expect new equipment to support at least 32GB ram | 23:18 |
meep_____ | They refused to sell me a chip because I'm not a large corporation | 23:19 |
specing | no doubt | 23:19 |
specing | Until they can do 32GB I'm just going to keep buying 2008 laptops | 23:19 |
specing | since they can't do anything better | 23:19 |
meep_____ | speccy, rockchip and cavium can't be only only vendors out there | 23:19 |
specing | and in 2024 I'll upgrade my requirements to 64GB | 23:19 |
specing | They aren't | 23:20 |
meep_____ | that would be very nice if running 32gb of ram didn't use power power than accessing thessd | 23:20 |
meep_____ | you could keep your entire os + software in the memory cache | 23:21 |
meep_____ | *use more power than | 23:21 |
meep_____ | well maybe i should contact rockchip again | 23:22 |
meep_____ | I've heard they may be coming out with some more chips | 23:22 |
meep_____ | unless, please anybody else speak up if you know of a cpu vendor that will sell to me | 23:22 |
meep_____ | /whois speccing | 23:23 |
specing | you want just the CPU? | 23:23 |
meep_____ | also | 23:23 |
meep_____ | specing: yes | 23:24 |
meep_____ | and documentation | 23:24 |
specing | ok | 23:24 |
meep_____ | and also if there are some classes i can take on motherboard design | 23:25 |
meep_____ | I already know the basics of using KiCAD | 23:25 |
meep_____ | and I've used it to design control circuits for farm automation | 23:25 |
meep_____ | that I just plug into the expansion port of any old aarch64 SBC | 23:25 |
meep_____ | speak i2c and ttls serial to communicate with my boards | 23:26 |
specing | meep_____: https://octopart.com/search?category_id=4299&corearchitecture=ARM&corearchitecture=PowerPC&maxfrequency=1700000000&maxfrequency=1400000000&maxfrequency=1420000000&maxfrequency=1500000000&maxfrequency=1600000000 | 23:27 |
meep_____ | I want to learn so I can take this to the next step, which would be designing my own computers instead of custom PLCs | 23:27 |
meep_____ | Oh wow | 23:40 |
meep_____ | Ppc but low power | 23:40 |
meep_____ | If i was to do this | 23:57 |
meep_____ | I could probably keep the cost down by doing system-modules like theombra does | 23:57 |
meep_____ | With socketed ram | 23:57 |
meep_____ | That way I could put most of the super high speed stuff on a very small PCB | 23:58 |
meep_____ | Socket that into a lower density mainboard | 23:58 |
meep_____ | Like how the pentiums used to ship | 23:58 |
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