libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2020-04-13

damatalooking for a little help with Devuan Beowulf and this is my first time back on IRC since '98.02:36
damataI'll check in tomorrow. Just remembered it's Easter Sunday, prob not a lot of users on at the moment02:40
openbsdtai123hello world08:15
openbsdtai123I would like to install open morrowind on Devuan. Which releases seems to have it? it works on debian, but devuan?08:16
openbsdtai123Since first exist/day of devuan, I use devuan. I would like to thank you so much for systemd free system. Besides, I use BSD which is still more Unix, closer to the original idea of Linux. (my web: https://openbsdtai123.shell.ircnow.org   on unix).08:17
meep____Openmorrowind?08:17
openbsdtai123  "OpenMW is an attempt to reimplement the popular role playing game Morrowind."08:18
onefangSounds cool, now I want it to.  B-)08:18
openbsdtai123I can share you the files to run it.08:19
openbsdtai123I guess devuan has the openMW... somewhere.08:20
openbsdtai123DONT INSTALL SYSMTEMD DEBIAN FOR MORROWIND; we will find out how to run it on devuan08:20
openbsdtai123onefang: What about Manaplus ? this one is on devuan, and a cool mmorph08:21
onefangNever heard of Manaplus.08:22
openbsdtai123it is working on all OS ... the most popular mmorph that works on win, android, mac, linux, real Unix BSD08:23
targzopenbsdtai123: in ASCII backports, Beowulf and Ceres, v0.45: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=openmw&release=any08:32
openbsdtai123How to debootstrap the > ascii?08:33
openbsdtai123Is beowulf more stable than ceres?08:33
targzASCII stable, beowful beta, coming soon stable release :)08:34
BloatHunterdoes devuan have deltas?08:34
openbsdtai123I dont want to use a backport, this is unreliable...08:35
targzopenbsdtai123: there are many positive returns from beowulf, it can be seen as stable practically08:36
openbsdtai123ok, lets try : mkdir /target ; mount /dev/sdb1 /target ;   apt-get update ;  PKG='wpasupplicant,netbase,ssh,login,passwd' ;  debootstrap   --no-check-gpg  --include="$PKG" --arch i386 beowulf /target  http://be.deb.devuan.org/merged08:36
openbsdtai123(note that mkfs.ext2 is broken on amd64 ascii, btw. the graphic card on amd64 is less working than ascii i386 devuan).08:38
openbsdtai123it seems to work this magic: apt-get update ; PKG='wpasupplicant,netbase,ssh,login,passwd' ;  debootstrap   --no-check-gpg  --include=$PKG    --arch i386 beowulf /target  http://be.deb.devuan.org/merged08:44
targzIt's almost 4 a.m. Here, I retire to sleep.08:46
openbsdtai123anyone willing to compile/custom KDE 1.1 or KDE 1.2 from source from antiquity to modern life/desktop?  kde 1.1 was my favorite, and it is likely to work faster.  http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/kde/unstable/apps/KDE1.x/09:00
openbsdtai123 Will Devuan replace Xorg Unix philosophy by XWayland soon or later?09:02
gnarfaceopenbsdtai123: i'll help you at least attempt the kde build if you want, but i'm not doing to do it for you.  no idea about Xorg vs Wayland but the defaults will probably remain at whatever Debian uses as with everything else not directly dependent on systemd09:12
gnarface(i personally will probably stick with Xorg for at least a good decade after it can be proven Wayland even works, which right now it doesn't)09:13
openbsdtai123I fear that devuan will have to go to XWayland ...09:15
gnarfaceonly if Debian does first09:15
openbsdtai123It is obvious to go to XWayyland because the Linux community seems to adopt it happily.09:15
gnarfacei haven't seen that actually09:16
gnarfacei've seen a lot of top-ranking *developers* embrace it whole-heartedly, but distros themselves have been lukewarm at best, and the commercial sector has wholly rejected it09:16
gnarfacereally here's the deal09:17
openbsdtai123I see that Xwayland gets popularity and more distro go for it, even some packages need wayland libs09:17
gnarfacenobody is going to move it into prime time until NVidia fixes their shit first09:17
gnarfacethat's the sad state that nobody wants to admit to themselves09:17
gnarfacebut this isn't a support issue, this is more of ranting.  we should do that in #debianfork instead so this room can be reserved for support issues09:17
openbsdtai123the problem is that devuan is connected to the commercial debian, so it is hard to get unix spirit in devuan... soon or later, commercial can somehow influence devuan, including X (Xwayland or similar).09:18
gnarfaceas for the part of this that is related to support, rest assured whatever the bad people try to cram down your throat, someone around here will come up with a workaround09:19
openbsdtai123I think the security to run OpenBSD or Unix, is that they have their own X. So nothing can happen there.09:20
gnarfacei fully support you using OpenBSD as well, but i strongly recommend you keep X far away from anything you want to actually be secure09:21
openbsdtai123Oh yeah, I agree with you. OpenBSD, secured is not firstly aimed at Desktop, but the focus is Server(s), Routers,...09:23
openbsdtai123Maybe to free devuan, would be to have own X as well, like most BSD* do.09:24
gnarfaceso far luckily that hasn't been necessary09:25
gnarfaceand it isn't likely debian would remove xorg entirely09:25
gnarfacejudging by past behavior they would more likely just demote it to non-default then cripple it in some way09:25
openbsdtai123The sooner Devuan goes to own X, the better. The longer Devuan waits, the harder it will be.09:30
gnarfacei get that you're trying to encourage the change you want in this world, and that's not fundamentally wrong, nor is your point, but that's not really what Devuan is about09:30
gnarfacesee, the point of Devuan is to be as much like Debian as Debian was before systemd09:31
gnarfaceno more, no less09:31
gnarfaceso the though they'd fork Xorg over any other issue is fairly out of bounds09:31
gnarfacesee?09:31
gnarfacethought*09:31
gnarfacebut you're right, someone SHOULD probably fork Xorg again09:32
onefangDefinitely a discussion for #debianfork.09:32
gnarfaceagreed09:32
bleb"KDE Wallet Service" is still starting when I ls in a directory with an sshfs mount that is trying to reconnect15:11
blebThought this was fixed when I purged kde and rebooted15:11
blebbut no15:11
blebi can't even find the process to kill it15:12
gnarfacei think it's actually lightdm that is starting it15:14
blebah i think the process is called kwalletd515:15
gnarfacesounds right15:15
blebso i can uninstall kwalletmanager15:16
blebbut for some reason it wasn't removed when i purged kde-plasma-desktop15:16
blebnow when i purge kdewalletmanager, a bunch of kwallet stuff remains installed15:17
bleblibkwalletbackend5-5, libpam-kwallet-common, libpam-kwallet515:17
gnarfacei swear to you that there is some way to disable it by just changing a line in a config file, i just can't remember where exactly right now15:17
blebis there any way to remove all the stuff that was installed when i did apt install kde-plasma-desktop?15:18
bleb(i thought that's what purge was for)15:18
blebgnarface: i assume it won't be auto-starting now that it's uninstalled15:18
openbsdtai123I am making a similar desktop like KDE 1.x using FLTK15:19
blebnice15:19
blebwe need something like that15:19
gnarfaceyou did this?  apt-get --purge autoremove15:19
openbsdtai123it is very easy with fluid15:19
blebfluid?15:20
blebgnarface: yeah tried that15:21
blebleaves the kwallet stuff and probably a bunch more k stuff15:22
blebmaybe the problem is that the kde-plasma-desktop is a metapackage and not a real package?15:22
masonbleb: The --purge just removes old configs. autoremove itself is what says to remove anything not manually and intentionally installed.15:23
gnarfacebleb: do you have either of these files?  ~/.kde/share/config/kwalletrc ~/.config/kwalletrc15:24
masonbleb: An interesting thing to do would be "apt install aptitude ; aptitude why libpam-kwallet-common"15:24
gnarfacebleb: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29594260/how-to-disable-kwallet-in-kde-plasma-515:24
masongnarface: He's tried to delete all the KDE stuff. Those packages shouldn't remain.15:25
masonUnless I've missed a detail since the first approach.15:25
blebmaybe i can generate a list of packages installed by kde-plasma-desktop and pipe it to xargs apt purge ?15:26
blebquestion is how to get such a list15:26
masonbleb: Try installing aptitude and ask it why those packages are there.15:26
gnarfacemason: i assumed it'd still work because of some peculiarity of how lightdm is linked to it, and the packages left over (which i assumed he'd have a dependency snarl removing if he wants to keep lightdm)15:27
masonThat could be.15:27
blebgnarface: i don't want to keep lightdm15:27
blebso i had no problem removing it15:27
gnarfaceif you don't want a graphical login, and you just want to log in at a text prompt then run "startx" you don't need any of that stuff15:27
masonI also wonder if there's a way with apt-cache to get the same "why" data... apt-cache policy doesn't do it.15:27
blebwell i still have slim15:28
masonOh, rdepends maybe.15:28
blebhmm ok so the kde wallet thing is still a problem15:29
masonbleb: Do you not want to try aptitude to get a reason why it's installed?15:29
blebi uninstalled it and killed the kwalletd5 process, but if i ls in the directory with an sshfs mount it restarts and prompts for a password15:30
bleboh i still have libkwalletbackend5-5 installed15:30
openbsdtai123bleb: this is FLUID and an example how it runnning:  https://openbsdtai123.shell.ircnow.org/foss.html15:30
blebmason: i already know that it's installed because i installed kde-plasma-desktop15:31
blebquesiton is how to reverse that command15:31
masonbleb: You deleted kde-plasma-desktop, didn't you?15:31
blebyes15:31
bleb"apt purge kde-plasma-desktop15:32
masonbleb: So, if it's only there because of that package, autoremove ought to have nabbed it. So it doesn't think that's why it's installed. aptitude why libkwalletbackend5-5 will tell you why the system thinks that package needs to be there15:32
bleboh i see15:33
blebwell i just apt purged it which also uninstalled a bunch of dependencies15:33
blebi'll try and find another kde package that should've been uninstalled15:34
blebok here's an example15:39
bleb$ aptitude why kwayland-data15:39
blebi   task-print-service   Recommends hplip15:39
blebi A hplip                Recommends policykit-115:39
blebi A policykit-1          Recommends policykit-1-gnome | polkit-1-auth-agent15:39
blebi A polkit-kde-agent-1   Provides   polkit-1-auth-agent15:39
blebi A polkit-kde-agent-1   Depends    libkf5windowsystem5 (>= 4.96.0)15:40
blebi A libkf5windowsystem5  Recommends kwayland-integration15:40
blebi A kwayland-integration Depends    libkf5waylandclient5 (>= 4:5.28.0)15:40
blebis polkit-kde-agent-1 supposed to be installed in the default xfce setup?15:40
masonbleb: Ah, so, install policykit-1-gnome and I'd bet polkit-kde-agent-1 goes away. Or at least, have a run at it and see if it wants to install it.15:54
masonor rather, seeing if that install wants to uninstall the kde bits15:54
masonbleb: You've got polkit-kde-agent-1 because it provides "polkit-1-auth-agent" and you need something that does that. policykit-1-gnome would do it too, and would not fall back on the kde packages as is happening now.15:55
phillipsjkLooks like I have to pysically visit the machine I was complaining about. Cron may have fixed itself after a reboot.15:57
phillipsjkOr the local phone company is sabotaging my remote connection.15:57
gnarfacephillipsjk: oh, you had left before i could say it, but the only problem i'd ever really had with cron was a debootstrapped rootfs for some or another virtual guest would somehow silently fail to setup cron right and it would never auto-start with the guest.  just force re-installing it in each guest fixed that though15:59
chr[]phillipsjk: is your cron script (re)starting a service? If there's a fork, io-handles gets copied. They must be closed otherwise cron waits forever.16:05
phillipsjkchr[] just trying to shut the machien down on a schedule. If occured to me that it may not have started up as expected. I can check the kWh reading to confirm it ran for about 8 hours last night.16:11
phillipsjkSetting the scheduled boot option in the BIOS did not seem to work, but 'rtcwake -m off -s 60' did.16:12
phillipsjkrtcwake had a quirk where I had to wait for local day roll over to simulate it without complaining about going back in time. (Hardware clock is UTC)16:17
openbsdtai12316:18
phillipsjkThe "tomorrow" option appears to ignore the time16:18
onefangTomorrow never comes.16:24
openbsdtai123OPENMW is not into beowulf repositories.16:32
openbsdtai123Is a backport needed to run openmw ?16:32
chr[]phillipsjk: rtcwake seems to be a matter of luck. WOL an option?16:36
phillipsjkchr[], I think I got RTCwake working. WOL did not work when I tested it. I think you have to get the driver to explicitly enable it.16:41
phillipsjkThe computer takled to the mprime server this morning.16:42
openbsdtai123I put backport but apt-get install openmw  gives nothing.17:07
phillipsjkYep, it was off after having run for abotu 16 hours, 40 minutes since I last check the kWh meter 2 eveings ago. I wonder if I can prove cron is not reading the file every minute like it is supposed to.17:59
openbsdtai123I look for openmw into the ftp.devuan.org by using links .... Packages.xz Packages.gz ... but is there a non packed / xz/gz for plain text reading ?18:24
openbsdtai123got it, into "contrib" of beowulf.. thank you!18:29
cushhola. anyone have success building recent mpv in devuan beowulf environment?18:49
openbsdtai123rathena is a server, free that looks compilable on openbsd.19:52
damatalooking for a little help with Devuan Beowulf...also, haven't been on IRC in 20+ years so be gentle20:18
damataam I in the right place?20:19
damatahi20:23
debdogdamata: BIngo!20:23
damatadebdog: thx20:23
damataI have some familiarity with Linux, more with Windows and I'm currently using Ascii on a few laptops, but I'm a bit confused about info on the beta.devuan.org site. It says Beowulf is the stable release and Ascii is old stable20:25
debdogsometimes traffic is low, so replies can take some time20:25
debdogthat's why it is named _beta_.devuan.org. it is not yet officially released20:26
damatamakes sense, most of the ppl using Beowulf report it running better than ascii20:27
damatamy broader  question is can a Devuan based distro be made persistence.20:29
debdogsorry, I do not understand the question.20:30
debdogpersistence regarding...?20:31
debdog(except you're talking about the live image)20:31
damataI'm trying to make a live image persistence so that when I go in to update or install packages they remain.20:32
damataDon't want to install Linux on my main desktop just yet, had a bad experience with Linux Mint that required a reinstall of Windows 1020:33
debdogsorry, IDK. that's fsmithred's department. Just stick around!20:33
damataI will say, Devuan distros are so much faster IMO than any of the others and seem to just work20:34
debdogI am pretty certain it is possible, I just don't know how exactly20:34
damatado we have an idea of when Beowulf will officially be released? I have several apps for making an ISO bootable on a USB drive, some work better than others.20:35
golinuxdamata: https://refracta.org/docs/readme.refracta2usb.txt20:38
damatathanks for the link20:39
damatahave never used refracta before.20:41
damataI'll read this over and give it a try once my .iso finishes downloading.20:44
fsmithredpersistence will work.20:45
damataah the infamous fsmithred lol20:45
damatamust have heard debdog whisper your name20:46
fsmithredalthough it's not working in the latest live-usb I just made with beowulf20:46
fsmithredand I don't know why20:46
fsmithredworks fine with a refracta beowulf iso, which is basically the same thing20:46
damataI'm downloading the Beowulf live iso for 64bit arch20:47
fsmithredthat's what I used20:47
damataI am wondering if the program I use to format the usb drive didn't zero the data out20:49
fsmithredwhat do you mean?20:49
fsmithredif you format a drive, it zeros everything20:50
damatathe partitioning tool I use in Win10 always reports previous partitions found20:50
damataso I wonder if there's a problem with it20:50
fsmithreddoes win10 recognize linux partitions?20:51
fsmithredit used to not see them at all20:51
damatait doesn't, and I'm using Easeus Partition Master to format my usb drives.20:52
damatawell, here goes another attempt....20:59
damatabrb, going to take my temp. Got tested this morning for COVID-19 so I'm quarantined a few days.21:04
cushidk21:25
openbsdtai123KDE 1.x is now available since 2017 for Debian and Ubuntu.... (see screenshot https://openbsdtai123.shell.ircnow.org/desktop.html)21:31
phillipsjkfsmithred, zeroing a large drive takes hours.21:31
openbsdtai123kde resto by kde castro : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Desktop_Environment_121:35
cushopenbsdtai123: this isn't #openbsd :)21:52
cushbut i am happy if you are using devuan!21:53
openbsdtai123 ... got the code for devuan, https://github.com/KDE/kde1-kdebase23:08
openbsdtai123cush:  I use devuan since its first or second day only, as soon as it came to rescue the systemd doom day.23:08
openbsdtai123Still unsure that it is good thing to mimic debian and port all stuffs from for sysd free.23:10

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