tuxd3v | ullet, no I use devuan edev1 | 00:05 |
---|---|---|
ullet | there are notes somewhere i can follow for a VIM3 image? | 00:06 |
tuxd3v | its my builder :) | 00:06 |
ullet | ohh | 00:06 |
ullet | if i were bitcoin rich i'd send you a vim3 to build devuan imgs for | 00:06 |
tuxd3v | VIM3 is not yet supported, I could add support for it, let me check the board | 00:06 |
tuxd3v | :) | 00:06 |
ullet | if you make a vim3 i will do good works for others | 00:07 |
tuxd3v | yeah it has the powerfull 311D :) | 00:07 |
ullet | logging into protonmail is 10x quicker on VIM3 than on jetson nano, tuxd3v | 00:13 |
ullet | it generates some kind of session key upon login, which takes ages | 00:13 |
ullet | and building on it is.. idk. but way faster. | 00:14 |
mason | Anyone using fail2ban? I'm not seeing it set up iptables at start, on Beowulf. | 04:14 |
* ullet ponders devuan on Khadas VIM3 | 12:32 | |
ullet | when panfrost drivers are available, and opengl-es. and wayland, and wayfire | 12:32 |
ullet | it will be the bees knees! | 12:32 |
bleb | does devuan have to build its own version of firefox? | 14:23 |
bleb | can't use debian's? | 14:23 |
ullet | does it? | 14:25 |
bleb | i was asking because there is only firefox-esr | 14:26 |
ullet | i don't know the reason sorry | 14:27 |
ullet | i dislike several decisions by mozilla, so i use Pale Moon | 14:27 |
ullet | and even in that, i disable many things before compiling | 14:29 |
bleb | like what? | 14:32 |
ullet | pretty big list. video, audio... | 14:38 |
gnarface | bleb: that copy of firefox-esr is the Debian one, and apparently currently the only Debian one unless you're running unstable | 15:58 |
gnarface | bleb: (no, i don't know why, but last time it had something to do with Rust and Google's stupidity) | 15:59 |
Wonka | so, pdns-recursor 4.3.0-2 does not have /etc/init.d/pdns-recursor anymore, there's only /lib/systemd/system/pdns-recursor.service and /lib/systemd/system/pdns-recursor@.service | 18:31 |
Wonka | pdns-recursor 4.1.11-1+b10 still has /etc/init.d/pdns-recursor, and it's co-authored by one "Christoph Haas <haas@debian.org>". | 18:32 |
Wonka | neither is /etc/default/pdns-recursor still there | 18:46 |
mcr | after upgrade to Beowolf, my desktop's /etc/ssl/certs (maybe) is broken in such a way that my fetchmail no longer trusts mail servers. | 18:50 |
mcr | another run of update-ca-certificates might have solved this. "aptitude reinstall ca-certificates" did not itself solve it. | 18:54 |
rtn0 | hi all | 19:28 |
rtn0 | what is devuan? is it based upon Debian? | 19:29 |
slvr | yes, with some differences | 19:29 |
fsmithred | yes, it is mostly debian | 19:29 |
fsmithred | we fork the packages that require systemd and remove that dependency | 19:30 |
rtn0 | oh that's good. | 19:30 |
fsmithred | and we merge our little repository of forked packages with the debian repository, minus the ones that need you-know-what | 19:30 |
rtn0 | okay. i value my privacy, which is why i want to rid myself of systemd | 19:31 |
fsmithred | better get rid of your web browser and your phone, too | 19:32 |
rtn0 | fsmithred: im aware. | 19:32 |
rtn0 | fsmithred: but no, I'm not doing that. | 19:32 |
rtn0 | how do you guys feel about lennart? am i allowed to speak his name here? | 19:32 |
fsmithred | better place to discuss non-support stuff is #debianfork | 19:33 |
rtn0 | fsmithred ok. | 19:33 |
fsmithred | thanks | 19:33 |
rtn0 | well my main purpose of ridding myself of systemd is: it's lennart ware. (which is mostly cr4pware/violate-your-pr1v4sea-ware/etc). | 19:34 |
rtn0 | which is the reason why i asked. | 19:35 |
* rtn0 goes to #debian=fork | 19:35 | |
* rtn0 goes to #debianfork | 19:35 | |
slvr | devaun is fast, stable, and predictable. | 19:38 |
slvr | gooood stuff. | 19:38 |
telst4r | I found the /usr/sbin weirdness very puzzling. Like, after "su" I had to /usr/sbin/command for simple things like ifconfig :( the same seems to be in debian 10. What have I missed? | 19:49 |
slvr | su is broken now | 19:50 |
slvr | I think you need su -u to import the environment | 19:51 |
Guest81544 | _abc_ that's because Zoom has ties to the CCP | 19:56 |
rtn0 | fuck you guys. | 19:56 |
crashoverride | some people... | 20:04 |
crashoverride | what happened on #debianfork? | 20:04 |
sixwheeledbeast | lasted 3 minutes | 20:04 |
crashoverride | that's what she said. | 20:04 |
crashoverride | but really, what happened on there? | 20:05 |
onefang | What happens in #debianfork, stays in #debianfork. | 20:05 |
MinceR | lol | 20:05 |
crashoverride | you mean I need to lurk on ONE other chan already to just get one private joke or two a year? | 20:05 |
crashoverride | come on new | 20:05 |
crashoverride | s/ew/ow/ | 20:05 |
crashoverride | anyway, any idea how to configure different TTYs on different monitors? | 20:08 |
crashoverride | maybe with different resolution too | 20:08 |
sixwheeledbeast | all the fun happens on #debianfork your missing out, we have cake | 20:09 |
crashoverride | the cake is a lie. | 20:10 |
crashoverride | also, my missing out is fine, thank you very much. | 20:11 |
telst4r | are you suggesting there is fun outside #debianfork? | 20:16 |
sixwheeledbeast | but really, there's cake over here ;) | 20:16 |
sixwheeledbeast | never | 20:16 |
fsmithred | No cake. https://www.dyne.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Devuan_Conference2019-img002.jpg | 20:18 |
slvr | crashoverride: that sounds like something getty handles | 20:24 |
slvr | hopefully that is a useful clue. I've only used messed with serial terms not vga consoles. | 20:25 |
crashoverride | slvr: thanks | 20:31 |
Guest81544 | gnarface, are you sure DocScrutinizer05 runs the logs? I don't know why, but he is being extremely rude to me in chat like I've done something to him | 21:16 |
Guest81544 | also gnarface the shutdown, it's related to elogind | 21:17 |
Guest81544 | sometimes the session manager hangs | 21:17 |
Guest81544 | and nothing can be done ounce it gets into an unstable state or "busy state" as it calls it | 21:17 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not extremely rude, I just explained to you there are more than ONE log of IRC out there in the internet | 21:21 |
DocScrutinizer05 | and we don't censor generally | 21:21 |
Guest81544 | it is rude when you start out the conversation with unprovoked hostility | 21:34 |
DocScrutinizer05 | "please run a sed job to eliminate from all logs all lines containing <keyword>" - GOSH! | 21:35 |
DocScrutinizer05 | then "why would checking the results take more than a 30 minutes???" | 21:36 |
Guest81544 | the devuan logs | 21:38 |
DocScrutinizer05 | hint: who tells me tomorrow I won't face next request asking for "why the heck did you remove MY lines from thoselogs??? Please restore them!" | 21:38 |
Guest81544 | and in some countries, there is something called the right to be forgotten | 21:38 |
DocScrutinizer05 | and we don't censor generally | 21:39 |
Guest81544 | i'm not asking to remove someone else's messages | 21:39 |
Guest81544 | I'm asking for my own, which is not censorship. | 21:39 |
Guest81544 | and yes I can prove i own those lines | 21:41 |
Guest81544 | What I am asking is perfectly reasonable | 21:43 |
golinux | poor snowflake. please take it to #debianfork | 21:43 |
mason | Guest81544: It's not wholly clear how the right to be forgotten would work with something akin to a public venue, and it typically just applies to private information. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten | 21:46 |
slvr | Has anyone else noticed installer problems with beowulf? | 21:46 |
slvr | After the 'select software to install' screen I got a failure on two different amd64 machines. It worked on retry both times. | 21:47 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>[6 May 2020 21:29:21] <Guest81544> sure, but if removing some lines from web content takes hours and checking multiple files, maybe there's something fundamentally wrong with your design<< was last line prior to /ignore | 21:48 |
mason | DocScrutinizer05: Yeah, I'd *plonk* there too probably. Ah, well. | 21:48 |
DocScrutinizer05 | guess what the links in http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ point to | 21:48 |
DocScrutinizer05 | hint: more than ONE file | 21:49 |
slvr | oh neat, I can see myself on an internet web site | 21:49 |
DocScrutinizer05 | and *I* am rude? yeah, I'm a grumpy old fart, always been | 21:51 |
Guest81544 | your forgetting the buildup to that one DocScrutinizer05 | 21:56 |
Guest81544 | the provocation | 21:56 |
slvr | I'd be happy to forget this whole thing personally | 21:57 |
mason | Please take this bickering elsewhere. We only bicker about Devuan in here. | 21:59 |
Wonka | DocScrutinizer05 was born as a grumpy old fart. | 22:01 |
golinux | slvr: A provocation only triggers a response in a deluded mind | 22:01 |
golinux | What mason said. Take it to #debianfork | 22:02 |
Wonka | so. bickering about Devuan, specifically the pdns-recursor package contained in Devuan unstable: it's got no init script no more, but only shitstemd unit files. | 22:03 |
mason | Wonka: That'd be worth a bug report. | 22:03 |
slvr | I can whine about the installer more. :p | 22:03 |
slvr | Or I'd be more happy to get some pointers on how to dig in and discover what the underlying problem is, maybe take a stab at fixing it. | 22:04 |
mason | Wonka: FWIW, https://www.freshports.org/dns/powerdns-recursor/ suggests that probably systemd is not central to the package. | 22:04 |
slvr | I can see how systemd-resolved using locahost:53 might affect pdns if there is any config defaults that are aware | 22:04 |
Wonka | mason: I acquired a pdns-recursor init script from an older package. That one had commentary in it that suggested someone with an @debian.org email address had co-authored it. | 22:08 |
Wonka | mason: using that script, pdns-recursor starts and works just fine | 22:09 |
Wonka | perused reportbug... | 22:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | one last comment (to fight the "I'm an ignorant rude old fart"): I did a check with the two keywords they gave me: $keyword1 matches on 10 lines from 3 users in 7 files, $keyword2 matches on ~200 lines from 4 users in 6 files. Now am I supposed to verify with 7 users that they agree on censoring those over 200 lines of which none directly contains *any* privacy related info? | 22:32 |
DocScrutinizer05 | won't happen, please don't send any further similar request my direction, thanks! | 22:34 |
Guest81544 | no just the ones from my nick | 22:54 |
golinux | Guest81544: Please just stop adding more lines that you don't want here | 22:56 |
gnarface | Guest81544: note, for clarification, that i'm not golinux | 23:07 |
* gnarface doesn't actually work here | 23:08 | |
golinux | but we are friends | 23:11 |
openbsdtai123 | will devuan on rpi3b be faster than raspbian buster, because raspbian buster is actually running very slow. eg. slow kodi. | 23:12 |
gnarface | golinux: that's true but i've had my own problems with DocScrutinizer05 in the past, and i don't want to take sides on this matter | 23:12 |
golinux | We all have . . . | 23:13 |
tuxd3v | openbsdtai123, for sure it will, try it and say something about :) | 23:13 |
openbsdtai123 | ok, I like the "for sure". I will try on weekend, root / will be running from scandisk pen. | 23:13 |
golinux | gnarface: to #debianfork | 23:14 |
openbsdtai123 | tuxd3v: actually, do you think that slackware can be faster than devuan for rpi3b? | 23:24 |
slvr | not materially | 23:25 |
tuxd3v | I don't know about slackware, it is a stripped down os | 23:25 |
slvr | not stripped down at all | 23:26 |
slvr | it was just never bloated in the first place | 23:26 |
tuxd3v | everything will come to the compilation of the kernel and userspace | 23:26 |
slvr | slack runs great on arm, but it might miss out on some functions you want. I ran it on an arm chromebook. | 23:27 |
tuxd3v | devuan is more lean than debian, has has no systemd, so it will consume less memory and be faster | 23:27 |
tuxd3v | by definition | 23:27 |
tuxd3v | I can compare for instance raspbian vs devuan | 23:27 |
tuxd3v | devuan uses about 17MB Ram, while raspbian uses around 35 MB | 23:28 |
tuxd3v | in a could boot | 23:28 |
slvr | interesting | 23:28 |
tuxd3v | slvr, its not interesting its facts | 23:28 |
slvr | those aren't exclusive at all | 23:29 |
tuxd3v | I already have done a image for RPI1, armel | 23:29 |
slvr | armel is kinda terrible though | 23:29 |
tuxd3v | Now, is will then depend on toolchains and level of optimizations, abart from the init system and so.. | 23:29 |
tuxd3v | armel, as a beautifully code density, I can't say the same about armv7 | 23:30 |
tuxd3v | 17MB | 23:30 |
tuxd3v | amazing.. | 23:30 |
slvr | but, no floating point | 23:31 |
tuxd3v | now, on rockpro64, I just created a image for it, and I type things and they just hapen... | 23:31 |
tuxd3v | In debian they take a delay to hapen | 23:31 |
tuxd3v | the feeling is that devuan is indeed more responsive | 23:32 |
tuxd3v | slvr, well, there are floating point operations in armel, *but* bot in all devices | 23:32 |
tuxd3v | armel represents all archs till armv6( included ) | 23:33 |
slvr | yeah, but it doesn't support hardware fpu ops | 23:33 |
tuxd3v | for instance RaspberryPi 1 has a vfp2 | 23:33 |
tuxd3v | yes it does | 23:33 |
tuxd3v | like I said vfp2 | 23:33 |
tuxd3v | is the maximum vector floating point revision present in armel | 23:33 |
tuxd3v | fp3 is already included in armhf | 23:34 |
tuxd3v | and RaspberriPi1 has a vfp2 unit | 23:34 |
openbsdtai123 | svlr I moved a partition from ubuntu to slackware - I see the NET clear difference. This was to put lilo and I kept slackware, no doubts. | 23:34 |
slvr | huh. did this change after wheezy? | 23:34 |
tuxd3v | ofcourse you can compile code without support for it, and yes vfp2 is not so powerfull as fp3, but its there :) | 23:35 |
slvr | I ran the same jessie bins on a pi with fpu and a chumby without. | 23:35 |
tuxd3v | Devuan image has a armhf kernel compiled for it ;) | 23:35 |
Guest81544 | Which mean page can tell me more about the uid field in passwd(5)? | 23:35 |
Guest81544 | the man page for passwd(5) is leaving out information like what the recommended uid ranges are for various things | 23:36 |
openbsdtai123 | How long may it take to compile the linux kernel 4. or 5 on rpi3b? several hours? | 23:36 |
slvr | why would there be recommentations? | 23:36 |
openbsdtai123 | (degvuan) | 23:36 |
slvr | it should only take half an hour or so | 23:37 |
slvr | maybe an hour | 23:37 |
openbsdtai123 | quite good actually | 23:37 |
slvr | get that -j dialed in | 23:37 |
slvr | also keep some cooling on it | 23:37 |
gnarface | Guest81544: i think there's a debian wiki page for it, but basically the short version is > 1000 is for users | 23:38 |
Guest81544 | gnarface, I know there's a bit more to it, and I thought it was >5000 | 23:38 |
Guest81544 | so i'm trying to find authoritative documentation on it | 23:38 |
gnarface | Guest81544: if you use the "adduser" instead of the "useradd" tool, it knows what to do when you pass "--system" | 23:39 |
Guest81544 | I know but I'm making my own user management tools | 23:39 |
Guest81544 | the interact with the passwd and group files directly | 23:39 |
gnarface | Guest81544: found it https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html | 23:40 |
gnarface | Guest81544: er uh, more specifically: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html#users-and-groups | 23:40 |
tuxd3v | yeah on debian, and now also on other OSes normal users starts at 1000 | 23:41 |
tuxd3v | service users go till 1000 excluded | 23:41 |
Guest81544 | gnarface, fantastic thanks. this is exactly what i needed | 23:41 |
tuxd3v | ofcourse its configured.. | 23:41 |
gnarface | Guest81544: just in case, here's the standard system groups and what you're supposed to use them for: https://wiki.debian.org/SystemGroups | 23:41 |
Guest81544 | gnarface, this is why I love Devuan/Debian. clear architectural vision and documentation. not just piecing things together as you go along | 23:43 |
Walex | Guest81544: that's a bit overoptimistic :-) | 23:52 |
Guest81544 | well | 23:53 |
Guest81544 | maybe not debian in recent times | 23:53 |
Guest81544 | last 5 years or so | 23:53 |
Walex | also some of the architectural decisions are not entirely popular with everybody, like autostarting all daemons when installed or upgraded :-) | 23:54 |
Guest81544 | really? | 23:55 |
Guest81544 | huh | 23:55 |
Guest81544 | wouldn't that be out of scope of a package manageR? | 23:55 |
Walex | cast in stone in Debian policy... | 23:55 |
Guest81544 | at least within a major release right? | 23:56 |
Walex | but despite all that, there is still some search for coherence in Debian/Devuan, despite the nefarious conspiracy by FreeDesktop.org to mess things up. | 23:57 |
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