gnarface | specing: alright, well i *think* the way it is set up, based on other people describing the difference from the gentoo setup, is that sysvinit runs first, executes all the startup scripts, hands off to openrc | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
gnarface | *then hands off to openrc, i meant | 00:01 |
gnarface | so you get openrc's process management but sysvinit's initial startup | 00:01 |
gnarface | at least that's the idea anyway. i can't claim to have tried it | 00:01 |
gnarface | some people like it more, some people don't | 00:02 |
specing | Hmm, devuan's start-stop-daemon does not support --env? | 00:25 |
mason | specing: What do you want --env to do? | 00:31 |
specing | add some stuff to the daemon's environment | 00:40 |
systemdlete | drat. Still doing it. | 00:45 |
specing | command_user also appears non-functional | 00:45 |
specing | hmm | 00:45 |
systemdlete | what would cause a new login session to start on tty8? | 00:46 |
mason | specing: So, for adding to the environment, what I see recommended is populating the environment with a shell script and launching from that. | 00:47 |
openbsdt1i123 | After having devuan since first day, I start to move progressively to slackware. It seems good choice, reliable, fast and efficient system. back to old good days... devuan is a bit slow :( | 00:50 |
golinux | Goodbye then | 00:51 |
golinux | \o | 00:52 |
openbsdt1i123 | thank you for all those years ! greatly. | 00:53 |
Xenguy | mason: I was logged on here intermittently, but are you saying that you find Slackware faster than Debian or Devuan? | 00:55 |
Xenguy | And what does "funroll the loops" mean? | 00:57 |
openbsdt1i123 | Slackware is for sure pretty fast. | 00:57 |
Xenguy | I heard good things about it, but I never tried it as it didn't seem to have dependency management. | 00:58 |
Xenguy | And Slackware has been around since forever too. | 00:58 |
openbsdt1i123 | there is a saying about slackware... it is surely a good thing to try slackware. Since devuan must follow debian, devuan has to get in this Linux direction. | 01:00 |
systemdlete | Xenguy: Maybe this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_unrolling | 01:03 |
Xenguy | thanks systemdlete , will check that out | 01:03 |
systemdlete | it seems to be a compiler optimization thingy. Flattens out the loops in code to sequential statements to save time in execution at the expense of more code size | 01:04 |
golinux | slack is OT for this channel | 01:06 |
Xenguy | OK, so it's some optimization technique... | 01:06 |
Xenguy | OK, will continue in #debianfork if you're there systemdlete | 01:06 |
golinux | :) | 01:07 |
specing | Oh my | 01:11 |
specing | Why is Devuan's OpenRC from 2011? | 01:11 |
golinux | Because Debian's is. | 01:11 |
specing | that's not cool | 01:11 |
specing | And does Debian still pretend to support other inits? | 01:11 |
golinux | Supposedly. Thanks to the init diversity team of Debian and Devuan devs | 01:13 |
Xenguy | FTW | 01:13 |
mason | Xenguy: No, I was speculating about openbsdt1i123's assertion, but in all honesty I'd be shocked if there was measurable difference. There's AppArmour, but I don't see that mattering. | 01:53 |
mason | Xenguy: Half a sec, had to cower in the cellar for a tornado warning. | 02:43 |
mason | Xenguy: https://web.archive.org/web/20160304101546/http://funroll-loops.info/ | 02:44 |
mason | Xenguy: Anyway, an ironic bit is that there's really no different between a lot of Slackware and Devuan. Both use the Debian base utils directly. | 02:45 |
Xenguy | mason: Good to know. Good luck with the tornado : -) | 02:47 |
mason | Xenguy: It's passed now. | 02:47 |
mason | Not even rain any more. | 02:48 |
Xenguy | Phew | 02:48 |
mason | Power blinked madly but it's gone on east now. | 02:48 |
Xenguy | The Fickle Finger of Fate | 02:48 |
mason | Alright, back to bedtime stories for the girls. o/ | 02:48 |
mason | Xenguy: Yep! | 02:48 |
Xenguy | TTYL | 02:48 |
systemdlete | mason: I might just have it now. Yesterday, I modified the lightdm.conf file. I restored it. So far, so good... | 03:24 |
systemdlete | Sorry, I really had made a LOT of changes. My bad(s). | 03:24 |
mason | systemdlete: No worries. Although I'm still stuck on the notion of that resolution change being involved. | 04:03 |
systemdlete | well, there really IS a resolution change. It's due to the fact that, when switching between console and X, there is a change of resolution. | 04:04 |
mason | Ah, effect, not cause? | 04:04 |
systemdlete | I think that is the vbox video drivers simulating the changes. | 04:04 |
mason | hm | 04:04 |
systemdlete | (my theory) | 04:04 |
mason | Valid. | 04:04 |
systemdlete | It's been up for over an hour without incident. | 04:06 |
* systemdlete crosses fingers | 04:06 | |
* systemdlete crosses legs, eyes | 04:06 | |
* systemdlete toes | 04:06 | |
mason | I think moving to another virtualization platform is a good idea regardless. | 04:06 |
systemdlete | I'm investigatng it. Thing is, I have to make friends with new tech before I jump on board. So I do a lot of reading first, then testing, hopefully remembering to do it in a test environment first... | 04:07 |
mason | I'm the same way. Takes me forever to rely on something new. | 04:08 |
systemdlete | It's open source... which means, on the one hand, we should expect high quality software in most cases, but on the other hand, sometimes there are limits to what these things can actually do. And there's always bugs or other problems. I wouldn't trade open for the world, but I still like to be thorough. | 04:36 |
systemdlete | I mean, just look at all the fun we've had today trying to figure out what I'd done. In this case it was op error, but I am always finding bugs and reporting them. | 04:37 |
systemdlete | pebcak | 04:37 |
mason | Being a bug magnet is useful. Makes the world a better place when you report the bugs. | 04:55 |
bgstack15 | it's not about the openness of the source code; it's about the RTFMness of the admin. | 05:23 |
bgstack15 | and completeness of the man pages | 05:23 |
systemdlete | and the CLARITY of the man pages. I find many man pages are written very clumsily. | 05:33 |
systemdlete | Sorry, but that has been my experience. And that goes for Unix as well as Linux. I find the web-based docs and wikis more useful for anything larger than a command line scripting filter. | 05:34 |
onefang | There's lots of badly written docs out there, no matter what the operating system. | 05:35 |
systemdlete | No kidding. But poor writing doesn't end there... anyone read online news? Some of those writers have no command of English, and most of the work needs an EDITOR badly. | 05:37 |
golinux | Humans are getting stupider thanks to the machine | 05:38 |
golinux | It's going to come bite us | 05:38 |
systemdlete | If I have to read something 3 times to understand what the writer was trying to say, there is a problem. I only have this issue with SOME, not all, writing. So I conclude it is not me. | 05:38 |
systemdlete | anyway, mason: I agree with you. My main contribution is submitting bugs. And I do my best to be clear, concise, and thorough. I try to remember to include relevant logs and other media. | 05:39 |
systemdlete | Unfortuntely, though, despite my most fervid attempts, I find some tracker overlords do not take lightly to having their software criticised by even the most reproducible bugs and crashes. I am told by one, recently, that since no one else has a problem with their UI, they won't fix it. Despite it being confusing. | 05:41 |
systemdlete | Oh well. | 05:41 |
systemdlete | I can only do what I can do, right? | 05:41 |
man_in_shack | yeah i've seen that attitude too on occasion | 05:47 |
man_in_shack | as for online news, really depends on what you're reading | 05:47 |
systemdlete | there are for, example commas but, in the wrong places. | 05:48 |
man_in_shack | most traditional news companies have fired a huge chunk of editorial staff and journos to increase profit margins | 05:48 |
systemdlete | It's a good thing, otherwise we would no longer get to enjoy their work. (not) | 05:48 |
systemdlete | but this is really fork stuff... | 05:48 |
golinux | systemdlete: Like after a conjunction. Drives me crazy | 05:50 |
systemdlete | I had English grammar in 10th grade with the most hated teacher in my HS. Everyone dreaded taking her class. But I have to admit, after all that, I *finally* understood grammar. | 05:51 |
golinux | And that you for realizing what channel you weren't on. LOL! | 05:51 |
golinux | I got it in the 4th grade. | 05:51 |
systemdlete | Taking a second language helps a bit too, though not so much with punctuation. | 05:51 |
golinux | Let's put a fork in it | 05:52 |
systemdlete | Oh, I had it in 4th grade also. And again in other grades. But it was that class that finally put a fork in it for me. | 05:52 |
golinux | that > thank | 05:52 |
systemdlete | /done | 05:52 |
* systemdlete heads to the debianfork channel | 05:52 | |
man_in_shack | i prefer debiansplades, personally | 05:58 |
rad | Upgrade to beowulf was almost flawless. The only thing that didn't work was that chromium had no sound. For some reason pulseaudio got reinstalled during the upgrade, I just removed it and got my sound back. I need to change the sample rate of ALSA though because I hear a tiny gap every few seconds. | 21:52 |
rad | Now I'm trying to upgrade a raspberry installation to beowulf. | 21:53 |
rad | The sshd config file in beowulf arm64 seems to be quite different from the one that came with ascii raspi3. | 22:05 |
gnarface | rad: the ARM images are fairly heavily customized by the volunteers that put them together, while the sshd in the x86/x86_64 images is the stock Debian one | 22:06 |
gnarface | sshd_config* | 22:06 |
gnarface | rad: (there is also a #devuan-arm channel just fyi) | 22:07 |
rad | It "UsePAM yes" instead of "no" like it was. It removes "Uselogin no" and "UsePrivilegeSeparation sandbox". Actually that's all the changes I see. Yeah I thought they'd be customized to allow SSH setup of the raspi without a screen. I'll keep the local version. | 22:08 |
rad | oh I'll join that channel and paste my message there. :-) Thank you. | 22:08 |
rad | Ah can't join it, needs to be identified and can't do it right now. I'll do it after I finish the setup. | 22:10 |
fsmithred | those changes are in the amd64 sshd_config, too | 22:30 |
rad | the ones I had locally are also in amd64? but somehow are not in arm64 beowulf? | 22:32 |
rad | xfce on beowuld on a raspi3 seems to work just fine. I'll dump an image of my sd card and then try to install drivers for a 3.5 inch screen and I'll have pocket devuan with me at all times hohoho | 23:11 |
gnarface | congrats rad | 23:27 |
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