| frabbit | hi. i have a ssd here with windows 7 and want to use the rest space to install devuan wit the partions / /boot /home /temp and /var. all partitions except /boot should be encrypted. anyone has a good guide for that? i only found guides where the whole disk is used or only two partions exists ( /boot and / and / will be encrypted). Problem ist, that the installer wants a passphrase for each partition i | 00:18 |
|---|---|---|
| frabbit | choose in "Confidure encrypted volumes" | 00:18 |
| frabbit | *Configure | 00:18 |
| frabbit | i use the Expert installer | 00:18 |
| frabbit | ive done it like this: use the biggest free space, create a 200MB /boot partion as primary and beginning at location. | 00:21 |
| frabbit | for the rest of the free space i choosed Automatically partition the free space | 00:22 |
| frabbit | as /home /var and /tmp | 00:22 |
| frabbit | after that i need to edit the 200MB partion again as /boot and ext4 (is that a bug?) | 00:23 |
| frabbit | then i wrote the changes to disk and configure encrypted volumes | 00:24 |
| frabbit | and there i choose all the created partions above (and /) except /boot | 00:24 |
| frabbit | but then it asks for a passphrase for every single partition... o_0 | 00:25 |
| gnarface | frabbit: did you use LVM? I think this step requires LVM | 00:25 |
| frabbit | ive never done this manually in the installer, i always used the wwhole disk before and encrypted it | 00:25 |
| frabbit | gnarface: hey. =) no but i thought that its maybe what i need | 00:26 |
| frabbit | it can group the partions right? so i can just encrypt the group? | 00:26 |
| gnarface | yea, the thing about encrypting the whole disk... i think that might be required though, but i also think that LVM is somehow key to a lot of encrypted disk setups | 00:26 |
| gnarface | yea, LVM is about managing partition groups ... sorta. it defines a layer of "volumes" which are sortof just soft-partitions i guess | 00:27 |
| frabbit | yeah..i do not really understand what it is (ive red the wikipedia article) | 00:27 |
| frabbit | atm | 00:27 |
| frabbit | maybe in the future | 00:27 |
| gnarface | they can be changed around on the fly without the restrictions normal partitions have in a running system | 00:27 |
| gnarface | hmm, did you read the Devuan release notes? they might have mentioned this in there, i forget | 00:28 |
| frabbit | so do i need to choose configure the LVM first after i partitioning? | 00:28 |
| gnarface | i think first, or at the same time | 00:28 |
| gnarface | it should be in that same partitioning step of the installer | 00:28 |
| frabbit | gnarface: yeah that dynamicll thing is what i understand | 00:28 |
| frabbit | first? oh... | 00:29 |
| gnarface | well, it should be clear one way or another | 00:29 |
| gnarface | the tool should imply a workflow... | 00:29 |
| gnarface | but i also think i remember hearing that leaving /boot unencrypted is also a requirement unless you're using a libreboot bios | 00:29 |
| frabbit | so: 1. "Configure LVM" choose the free space there, 2. Configure encrypted volumes and 3. create partions inthe encrypted volumes? | 00:30 |
| frabbit | gnarface: yes /boot must be unencrypted, but i wrote that above | 00:31 |
| gnarface | hmmm, yea sounds right, i think. i've never heard of LVM sharing a disk with a windows partition though, so that will be interesting | 00:31 |
| frabbit | no libreboot on this laptop | 00:31 |
| frabbit | gnarface: you only know windows and not-encrypted gnu/linux on same disk? | 00:31 |
| gnarface | frabbit: i haven't really used windows for almost 20 years. LVM didn't even exist back then | 00:32 |
| frabbit | gnarface: oh! =D | 00:32 |
| frabbit | thats a long time | 00:32 |
| gnarface | neither did disk encryption afaik though it might have... it would have been a real chore for a 150MHz chip | 00:33 |
| frabbit | i do not really want to use windows.. but i need that for some games... sadly | 00:33 |
| gnarface | oh? which games, maybe i can relieve you by telling you you're wrong | 00:33 |
| frabbit | =D sure not sorry ;) | 00:34 |
| gnarface | a whole raft of them work as good in Linux now, if you're willing to go through a similar amount of effort with Wine or Steam | 00:34 |
| frabbit | a lots of adventures that run only under windows (or some with steam or gog under linux but i wont use this services) | 00:34 |
| frabbit | no wine | 00:34 |
| frabbit | i messed arround with taht in the past under ubuntu... wasnt fun | 00:35 |
| frabbit | i came from console gaming, i just wnat to put in the game and play | 00:35 |
| gnarface | it really might be prefrable to dual-booting in some cases now. and you could still access the windows partition through qemu for non-game stuff like your tax software or whatever else they've bound you to themselves with | 00:35 |
| frabbit | *want | 00:35 |
| gnarface | well, do what you want, but when they brick your windows7 install secretly trying to update it to windows10 behind your back, i'll still be happy to help you free yourself of it for good :) | 00:37 |
| gnarface | (at that point the games will also be a lost cause anyway) | 00:37 |
| frabbit | so i configure the free space on the disk as lvm but now and i cant choose it for encryption and even not edit it to create partitions... | 00:38 |
| frabbit | gnarface: the windows 7 is only for offline gaming ;) | 00:38 |
| frabbit | i would never go online with a system that isnt maintained anymore... | 00:39 |
| gnarface | well, that's smart. that might save you | 00:40 |
| frabbit | i cant even remove the lvm from that free disk space... wtf?! o_0 | 00:40 |
| gnarface | hang on | 00:41 |
| frabbit | ah under configure lvm again | 00:41 |
| frabbit | sorry | 00:41 |
| gnarface | when you make it LVM, you can't choose for it to be encrypted at that step? | 00:41 |
| frabbit | no | 00:42 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 00:42 |
| gnarface | https://wiki.debian.org/LVM#Encrypted_LVM | 00:42 |
| gnarface | this looks legit, did you see this? | 00:42 |
| gnarface | there's actually an ascii-art graph above it of the partition/volume/group topology, maybe that'll clear things up for you | 00:43 |
| frabbit | but this is not for the expert-installer is it? | 00:44 |
| gnarface | i assume it either is or it applies to both | 00:45 |
| gnarface | all the expert mode installer does is ask extra questions | 00:45 |
| frabbit | i cant do that here... | 00:47 |
| frabbit | ah wait | 00:47 |
| frabbit | im stupid | 00:47 |
| frabbit | there are two entries | 00:47 |
| frabbit | didnt saw that in hte first place sorry <=) | 00:48 |
| frabbit | in the partion table is now a new entry on the top | 00:48 |
| gnarface | it's ok, it's not a super intuitive interface | 00:48 |
| gnarface | you get used to it's quirks eventually | 00:49 |
| frabbit | but i cant split that into several partitions... | 00:49 |
| gnarface | hmm, should be possible some how | 00:50 |
| gnarface | i don't know if you have to create the volume groups first or not | 00:50 |
| frabbit | i did | 00:50 |
| gnarface | volume groups should group your physical volumes, then you should be able to define your logical volumes as /usr, /home, /var, /tmp whatever | 00:51 |
| gnarface | google said you should be able to then define the logical volumes as either encrypted or not, but this example from debian's wiki seems to put the unencrypted volumes outside the LVM table. | 00:52 |
| gnarface | it's possible there are feature differences by version though, i am not sure. did you say this was ascii or beowulf? | 00:52 |
| frabbit | its ascci | 00:54 |
| frabbit | i need to pay arround here a bit... | 00:54 |
| frabbit | *play | 00:54 |
| gnarface | alright, good luck. it's slow in here right now but keep at it, eventually someone will show up who has done this before | 00:54 |
| frabbit | ah | 00:55 |
| gnarface | i vaguely recall something about cryptsetup being important, maybe an environment variable you have to set or something, not sure if that's still an issue but i remember talk about it | 00:56 |
| frabbit | i need to create a volume group, the the logical volumes, these are the "partitions" (/var /home etc.) the at configure encrypted volumes i can select them to encrypt | 00:56 |
| frabbit | hm but i wonder i f it wont be the same then (a passphrase for each partition) | 00:56 |
| gnarface | yea, they might each need their own passwords at that point. not sure | 00:57 |
| gnarface | seems logical that they would though | 00:58 |
| frabbit | oh got erros here now o_0 | 00:58 |
| frabbit | geez! why is that so messy... | 00:58 |
| gnarface | is that progress? errors like? | 00:58 |
| frabbit | i can encrypt a usb devcie with cryptsetup and create a partition tabel and partitions witj parted... why is that here so much different? | 00:59 |
| gnarface | because you're encrypting the whole physical device in that case, a case in which it also does not have to be bootable | 01:00 |
| frabbit | gnarface: sorry didnt "Failed to create a filesystem," | 01:00 |
| frabbit | yeah that bootable makes the difference but whole divece or not? why does that matter? | 01:00 |
| frabbit | *device | 01:00 |
| gnarface | i don't know enough about the actual encryption code to know why, but it's a fundamental limitation. like the type of limitation based on hard limits of physics and reality, not something marketers can lie their way out of | 01:01 |
| gnarface | also linked to why the technology doesn't work on individual files | 01:02 |
| gnarface | something about the actual drive identifiers being encrypted before mount time, so it happens below the driver level or something like that? | 01:03 |
| gnarface | (probably also directly linked to why the government can't break it) | 01:03 |
| frabbit | this installer step should be rewritten... | 01:06 |
| gnarface | hah, i'm sure that's been said before | 01:06 |
| frabbit | now i cant delete the encrypted partion... | 01:06 |
| frabbit | and the lvm neither... | 01:07 |
| gnarface | oh, are you using the graphic expert mode or the text/ncurses expert mode? some people have found the text version to be more intuitive | 01:07 |
| frabbit | ncurses | 01:08 |
| frabbit | i abort and use gparted live for deleting it... man... | 01:09 |
| frabbit | can i install devuan on several partitions wich are all unencrypted and then just use cryptsetup LUKS after installation to encrypt them? | 01:11 |
| gnarface | how old is that ascii installer? i know it has been patched once or twice | 01:11 |
| frabbit | 2.1 | 01:11 |
| frabbit | from december | 01:11 |
| gnarface | if that's something cryptsetup can do normally, should work just fine in Devuan, yes | 01:11 |
| frabbit | .. hm dont know | 01:11 |
| frabbit | but i dont think so... as i said normally i encrypt first and then create partions and filesystem | 01:12 |
| frabbit | *partitions | 01:12 |
| gnarface | my understanding was that you could indeed do this with LUKS and without LVM but in that case the *whole* disk needs to be encrypted. LVM is the only trick afaik to just encrypt *some* of it | 01:13 |
| frabbit | ook =( | 01:13 |
| gnarface | i could be wrong though, really | 01:13 |
| gnarface | you need to talk to someone who uses this on a laptop | 01:14 |
| gnarface | and i know they've been here, i just forget who | 01:14 |
| gnarface | i vaguely recall some gotcha about having to set up a CRYPTSETUP environment variable in the grub config or something. maybe search the forums about it? | 01:15 |
| frabbit | errmm...!! | 01:16 |
| frabbit | i cant delete the encrypted partion with gparted! | 01:16 |
| frabbit | holy shit | 01:16 |
| frabbit | do i have to dd that now? | 01:16 |
| gnarface | hahah, i dunno. mabye lol | 01:17 |
| frabbit | ah | 01:17 |
| frabbit | you need to choose deactivate first | 01:17 |
| frabbit | weird... that thing isnt mounted or something.. o_0 | 01:17 |
| frabbit | normally do not use gparted | 01:17 |
| gnarface | yea, it would have to be able to decrypt it before mounting it, i understand that much | 01:18 |
| frabbit | yes | 01:18 |
| gnarface | and while it's mounted... the encryption is of basically no protection | 01:18 |
| frabbit | weird gnome stuff | 01:18 |
| frabbit | from deleting you mean? yes | 01:18 |
| gnarface | from anything really | 01:18 |
| frabbit | ok from being read | 01:18 |
| gnarface | the primary use case for this technology is computers that are powered off | 01:18 |
| frabbit | ah that you mean | 01:19 |
| frabbit | sorry i didnt read corrctly | 01:19 |
| frabbit | *correctly | 01:19 |
| frabbit | i start the installe r again... | 01:20 |
| frabbit | *sigh* | 01:20 |
| frabbit | we need an entry here: "Guided - use the larest continuous free space and set up encrypted LVM" | 01:22 |
| frabbit | i try now wit only one partition | 01:23 |
| frabbit | *with | 01:23 |
| frabbit | do i need set "Bootable flag: On" for /boot? i saw a video where the guy leave it at off... | 01:25 |
| Hurgotron | I usually set it, but I think modern bootloaders don't care. | 01:26 |
| frabbit | (probably he forgot for his videotorial but i thin i remember ive done this the first time i set up a suse manually, but that was 5 yeasr ago) | 01:26 |
| frabbit | Hurgotron: i see thx =) | 01:27 |
| frabbit | ok ive set up no three partiions: /boot, / and swap, the two last are encrypted now.. lets see if asks for the two passphrases at boot... | 01:29 |
| frabbit | i use the same passphrase for both partitions | 01:29 |
| Hurgotron | frabbit: You should be able change the config later so that stuff not necessary at boot time gets mounted using a keyfile (in /etc) | 01:33 |
| Hurgotron | Personally, I use encrypted LVM. | 01:33 |
| gnarface | Hurgotron: he was trying that with the ascii installer and couldn't figure out how to get it to work. i have never tried it, could you lend some insight to the scrollback conversation? | 01:36 |
| Hurgotron | oh, there's more scrollback than I thought. hangon | 01:37 |
| frabbit | someone in #replicant told me: "you can create a partition for /boot and another for the encrypted volume, that way you only need one password, inside the encrypted volume create a lvm devices with all the partitions you want. I used to have my laptop with debian that way" | 01:41 |
| Hurgotron | That sounds quit right. | 01:42 |
| Hurgotron | You use the encrypted volume as a physical volume for LVM. You create a volume group, and inside that volume group logical volumes. These get used like partitions. / and swap and maybe more. | 01:45 |
| frabbit | Hurgotron: yeah sounds logic to me... ive tried to lvm first and then encryption (tired, sad frabbit here) | 01:46 |
| gnarface | sorry, frabbit | 01:46 |
| frabbit | will try this now | 01:46 |
| frabbit | Gnhm? why? | 01:46 |
| frabbit | gnarface: | 01:46 |
| frabbit | gnarface: why? | 01:47 |
| Hurgotron | I should write that up some day, if only for myself. In my case, I have RAID-1 on the lowest level... so LVM on top of cryptfs on top of RAID-1. | 01:47 |
| Hurgotron | I was migrating from Ubuntu a few days ago. Somehow I got confused and managed to overwrite LUKS header of my big fat data array with a partition table. Total data loss (OK I had backups). | 01:49 |
| Hurgotron | I should have had a backup of the LUKS header, though :P | 01:50 |
| fsmithred | where is that? | 01:51 |
| frabbit | Hurgotron: oh! =o | 01:51 |
| fsmithred | I have already had to find and use the backup files for lvm | 01:51 |
| fsmithred | not fun, but nice that it's possible | 01:51 |
| Hurgotron | backup files for lvm I did have... | 01:53 |
| Hurgotron | fsmithred: man cryptsetup, luksHeaderBackup | 01:54 |
| gnarface | frabbit: i led you down the wrong path at first, sorry | 01:54 |
| frabbit | gnarface: you led me nowhere wrong. i didint know and you didnt know for sure. | 01:54 |
| frabbit | gnarface: everything is fine you helped me alot already in the past and probably many other people here too! =) | 01:55 |
| Hurgotron | gnarface is definetely extremely helpful, indeed. | 01:55 |
| frabbit | yeah definetely | 01:56 |
| Hurgotron | I had lots of fun fighing with the installer in the past, it's really not easy (but I wouldn't know how to improve it either). It really gets funny when you want to swap around disks and the RAID autoassembly finds rests of previously used partitions and starts resyncs in unforeseen ways. It really needs the command line and a big stick to get rid of that. | 02:00 |
| gnarface | thanks guys, happy Friday | 02:00 |
| frabbit | here its already saturday =D | 02:00 |
| bengiul | hello, have anyone here change an ubunutu system to devuan without reinstalling? | 02:14 |
| gnarface | bengiul: not me, but multiple people have reported succeeding at it | 02:15 |
| Hurgotron | I did that once, just for kicks. But I would really not recommend it. | 02:16 |
| gnarface | yea, i would recommend making a full backup first | 02:16 |
| golinux | There's this post on the forum but no response/discussion https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3464 | 02:16 |
| bengiul | Hurgotron: did you take notes about problems and solutions? | 02:17 |
| bengiul | i will build a package database and grab all the equivalent debs from beowulf | 02:18 |
| bengiul | i know apt will break, and there will be breakage killing systemd | 02:18 |
| golinux | Also please read the documentation on beta.devuan.org before proceeding for beowulf | 02:18 |
| bengiul | but it can be done if you have all the packages you will need, from devuan, in a seperate archives dir | 02:18 |
| golinux | Do some reading before you try this. | 02:19 |
| golinux | You get to keep the pieces | 02:19 |
| Hurgotron | bengiul: it was some pre systemd Ubuntu in my case. 12.04 to ascii I think. I basically just changed the sources.list and did update and dist-upgrade, and prayed. It worked, surprisingly. I didn't use the resulting istall., though, becasue I didn't trust it. Looked ok superficially, though. | 02:20 |
| Hurgotron | fsmithred: thanks for reminding me to do the LUKS *and* LVM backups this time :P | 02:22 |
| frabbit | why there are two dirs under GNU/Linux called root? / and /root? =) | 02:36 |
| bengiul | two meanings - the root user and the root of the filesystem | 02:38 |
| bengiul | the /root is the superuser's home directory | 02:39 |
| frabbit | yes i know, but why not two different words? | 02:39 |
| bengiul | idk the hystory / etymology of the 'root user' term | 02:39 |
| frabbit | lol | 02:40 |
| frabbit | i treid to wrote /admin | 02:40 |
| frabbit | *treid | 02:40 |
| frabbit | as suggestion to replace /root | 02:40 |
| frabbit | but i got status output from freenode xD | 02:40 |
| frabbit | *tried | 02:41 |
| frabbit | ok ive installe dbased system now | 02:41 |
| frabbit | the way -> encrypted disk(space) -> create volume group -> create logical volumes worked | 02:42 |
| gnarface | frabbit: were you able to follow that procedure with only the installer, or did you have to do some pre-setup with a live image? | 02:43 |
| frabbit | interessting BRUB says that it founds Windows Vista, but its 7 here xD | 02:43 |
| frabbit | gnarface: all installer | 02:43 |
| gnarface | cool | 02:43 |
| frabbit | GRUB (sorry im really tired) | 02:43 |
| gnarface | i knew what you meant | 02:44 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure what it means that it thinks it's windows vista instead of windows 7 | 02:44 |
| gnarface | but it might be detecting some MBR traces from an older install | 02:44 |
| gnarface | i don't know if it matters | 02:44 |
| Hurgotron | same family, partition id, whatever | 02:44 |
| frabbit | i dont care probably windows 7 tells GRUB that its vista | 02:45 |
| frabbit | Hurgotron: yeah | 02:45 |
| frabbit | hmm what about that EFI thing here? | 02:45 |
| frabbit | ah i can correct later if windows does not boot | 02:46 |
| frabbit | ok done | 02:46 |
| Hurgotron | gnarface: and yes, I never had to use anything but the installer. Bu sometimes I needed the busybox shell of the installer to kill unwanted RAIDs or somesuch | 02:46 |
| frabbit | booting now | 02:46 |
| frabbit | ok tried windows 7 first but now it says that it need to check the filesystem... | 02:47 |
| frabbit | now windows does reboot the computer... | 02:48 |
| frabbit | ah cool windows still runs! =D | 02:49 |
| * frabbit cleans his forehead from sweat | 02:50 | |
| frabbit | interessting cant see the encrypted devuan disk here in windows, even the /boot not | 02:51 |
| frabbit | ok reboot to Devuan now | 02:51 |
| frabbit | and there i am! cool! =D | 02:52 |
| frabbit | works like a charm | 02:53 |
| frabbit | learned something new again, very cool. | 02:55 |
| frabbit | is that something for: friendsofdevuan.org ? =) | 02:56 |
| bengiul | http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation | 02:58 |
| bengiul | database query error has occurred. is the without-systemd.org a trustable site? | 02:58 |
| frabbit | bengiul: i used that site to get rid of systemdeath when i was using debian | 02:59 |
| bengiul | maybe web.archive.org has it | 02:59 |
| frabbit | bengiul: but what has a database error to do with trust? | 02:59 |
| bengiul | i have befriended my constant companion called Paranoia | 03:00 |
| golinux | That site has been reinstated from the web archive copy but I can' | 03:03 |
| golinux | t remember the new name | 03:04 |
| golinux | It's in the dng email archive with in last week or so | 03:04 |
| bengiul | 2018 snapshots work | 03:05 |
| golinux | bengiul: ^^^ | 03:05 |
| golinux | You don't want to use those instruction though. Use the ones at devuan.org for ascii and beta.devuan.org for beowulf | 03:06 |
| frabbit | ive done a little wallpaper, cause the success here got me into the mood to do so: https://s12.directupload.net/images/200523/tribdi7o.png | 03:22 |
| bengiul | wallpapers are always nice | 03:22 |
| frabbit | wish i had a sticker printer. in the past i always need to go to the library print the logos on a color printer, cut them and glue them onto the place i wanted them | 03:24 |
| bengiul | maybe you can buy blank sticker sheets for printing on? | 03:24 |
| frabbit | bengiul: probably =) | 03:25 |
| frabbit | but atm it doesnt matter i dont want to go to public places like the library | 03:25 |
| bengiul | then just go to an online sticker printing service | 03:26 |
| bengiul | dpkg-query -f '${binary:Package}\n' -W > mypackages.txt will get me a list of packages installed | 03:28 |
| frabbit | bengiul: good idea! | 03:28 |
| bengiul | then i can cat mypackages.txt |xargs -I % apt download % | 03:35 |
| bengiul | or ok maybe not | 03:35 |
| frabbit | bengiul: =) i can give you my scripts for things like that if u wnat | 03:43 |
| frabbit | Create List Of Installed Packages : https://paste2.org/fyC8kxg2 | 03:49 |
| frabbit | Restore Installed Packages From Given List : https://paste2.org/J73HAUnL | 03:50 |
| frabbit | With these two scripts you can test programms and after that set your system to the point before testing | 03:51 |
| frabbit | ah! | 03:51 |
| frabbit | thes f**cking paste site censored "$@" ! | 03:51 |
| frabbit | -.- | 03:51 |
| frabbit | these idiots | 03:51 |
| bengiul | heh, thanks | 03:52 |
| frabbit | Create a List: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/fb283cfd/ | 03:52 |
| frabbit | Restore the system: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/3e9de9cc/ | 03:53 |
| frabbit | bengiul: do NOT use the scripts from paste2.org | 03:53 |
| frabbit | i will avoid these site from now on... | 03:53 |
| frabbit | the see an @ and censore it as "email protection".... | 03:54 |
| golinux | This is a devuan-specific support channel not for general chat. Please take it to #debianfork | 03:54 |
| frabbit | golinux: ok =) | 03:55 |
| frabbit | golinux: i thought it would maybe helpful for other too, sorry | 03:56 |
| golinux | Thanks | 03:56 |
| frabbit | bengiul: ill send u 2 more scripts via pm | 03:56 |
| bsd4me | I now have a larger partition to use and wondering if better to move my refracta installation over to the partition, or install beowulf and just copy my home dir to new installation. | 04:17 |
| frabbit | i need to sleep. | 04:21 |
| frabbit | thx for your hel gnarface and Hurgotron =) | 04:21 |
| frabbit | *help | 04:21 |
| bengiul | and don't use wlan, kids | 04:28 |
| gnarface | bsd4me: the first approach is easier assuming sufficient expertise, but assuming that same amount of expertise and sufficient bandwidth, the latter approach is probably faster and has less chances of long-term complications based on simply diverging from default expected package selections and userspace configurations (though i can't really weigh in on specifics) | 04:46 |
| gnarface | bsd4me: so basically it's a question of whether you think you can afford to redownload all those packages just to have an installation that looks more "stock" | 04:48 |
| gnarface | bsd4me: (though it may also be an opportunity to erase any messes you might have made in the mean time) | 04:48 |
| bsd4me | gnarface: Thank you! Some of that is what I was considering. Think I'll try install beowfulf. Then upgrade kernel to 5.x | 04:49 |
| bsd4me | gnarface: lol, Very true about messes :) | 04:50 |
| onefang | You can avoid the redownload of packages by copying /var/cache/apt/ around. | 04:53 |
| bsd4me | onefang: thanks! I should have thought of that because yesterday or day before, I did apt apt clean :/ | 04:54 |
| bsd4me | Oh well, I have a fairly fast internet connection. | 04:55 |
| bsd4me | ok, off to install beowulf 3. bbl | 05:00 |
| fonky | good morning all | 07:12 |
| bengiul | hi fonky | 07:30 |
| fonky | hey bengiul | 07:42 |
| fonky | how are you | 07:42 |
| bengiul | trying to work up the courage to convert an ubuntu install to devuan. how are you fonky | 07:43 |
| fonky | not really a problem | 07:45 |
| fonky | just apt | 07:45 |
| fonky | if it is an old install | 07:46 |
| fonky | but there will be tons of leftovers | 07:46 |
| fonky | and systemd dependancies | 07:46 |
| fonky | as those dirty systemd distros have everything tied up | 07:46 |
| bengiul | yeah i want it all set up right before reboot | 07:46 |
| bengiul | it's aarch64 too | 07:47 |
| bengiul | on an emmc, not sd card | 07:47 |
| bengiul | so well, fun time | 07:47 |
| fonky | oh, not really production? | 07:47 |
| fonky | "production" | 07:47 |
| fonky | use i mean :) | 07:47 |
| bengiul | hobby use, and so i can compile stuff a bit faster than my other arm box | 07:48 |
| golinux | Welcome! | 07:48 |
| fonky | how is linux on arm btw | 07:48 |
| golinux | #devuan-arm | 07:49 |
| fonky | i avoid arm chips because of all of the included bugs | 07:49 |
| fonky | but x86 is not much better, at least the new ones | 07:49 |
| golinux | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=24 | 07:49 |
| fonky | bugs as in holes | 07:49 |
| fonky | hi golinux | 07:49 |
| bengiul | browsers are generally too heavy, opengl support is an endangered species, most driver work is done for android only | 07:49 |
| golinux | Hi | 07:49 |
| golinux | This is a support channel. Do you have a question? | 07:50 |
| fonky | i do not have a testbed system which could run linux4arm so not really going to check, but thanks for the info | 07:50 |
| fonky | have you noticed how ugly things are | 07:50 |
| fonky | most of the arm stuff gets opengl | 07:50 |
| fonky | while amd is trying to push vulkan | 07:50 |
| fonky | even though opengl is mature and stable and needs no replacement | 07:50 |
| golinux | General chat (and bitching) happens on #debianfork | 07:50 |
| bengiul | opengl != opengl-es | 07:51 |
| fonky | it is like google is trying to alienate and take over opengl | 07:51 |
| fonky | probably has some ties to opengl | 07:51 |
| golinux | Thanks. That's perfect for #debianfork | 07:51 |
| fonky | ok :) | 07:51 |
| golinux | fonky: ^^^ | 07:51 |
| fonky | sorry mr regulator | 07:51 |
| golinux | Thanks | 07:51 |
| golinux | Not a mr | 07:51 |
| onefang | That's Mz Regulator! | 07:51 |
| fonky | :) | 07:51 |
| fonky | haha | 07:52 |
| fonky | ok, gardening time | 07:52 |
| fonky | are there any | 07:52 |
| fonky | possibilies of requests for devuan packages | 07:52 |
| fonky | to be included in the mainline, forums or otherwise? | 07:53 |
| fonky | pleas not requests but then again | 07:53 |
| fonky | :) | 07:53 |
| golinux | We only package stuff to deal with systemd removal | 07:53 |
| golinux | I don;t understand your question actually onxce you finished it. | 07:54 |
| fonky | well nevermind | 07:56 |
| fonky | im lazy | 07:56 |
| fonky | if only packaging a .deb packet would not involve all the info one must input i would make them all by hand | 07:57 |
| fonky | i was thinking of opensnitch, douane | 07:57 |
| fonky | and palemoon | 07:57 |
| fonky | but then again | 07:57 |
| fonky | have a nice day | 07:57 |
| onefang | Palemoon has deb packages, and an apt repo. | 07:57 |
| fonky | yeah, but pusser only includes the latest and greatest | 07:58 |
| onefang | I use it on my Devuan desktop. | 07:58 |
| golinux | In Steve Pusser's repo | 07:58 |
| fonky | which is incompatible with 80/160 addons/extensions | 07:58 |
| fonky | i use | 07:58 |
| fonky | and the coder just does not seem to care | 07:58 |
| bengiul | running patched palemoon myself | 07:59 |
| golinux | Abd this is not a Devuan support question | 07:59 |
| fonky | and also palemoon has become bloated since 2015 | 07:59 |
| fonky | true :) | 07:59 |
| golinux | -----> #debianfork | 07:59 |
| bengiul | it's the only usable javascript-solid browser for my little SBC | 08:00 |
| golinux | (Are they that clueless?) | 08:00 |
| onefang | Don't make Mz Regulator get out her badge and handcuffs! | 08:01 |
| fonky | in any case | 08:01 |
| fonky | might come handy | 08:01 |
| fonky | NOT a devuan related thing tho | 08:01 |
| fonky | but | 08:01 |
| golinux | Yeah | 08:02 |
| fonky | http://ftp.metu.edu.tr/pub/mirrors/ftp.mozilla.org/addons/ | 08:03 |
| fonky | if using palemoon or any firepox derivative | 08:03 |
| fonky | that still handles old extension | 08:03 |
| fonky | here is a ton | 08:03 |
| bengiul | i have devuan on all the devices now | 08:05 |
| bengiul | that's interesting, thank you fonky | 08:05 |
| bengiul | however i'll note that addon security is perhaps more questionable from such sites | 08:06 |
| fonky | its a copy of the repository | 08:16 |
| fonky | in any case, contact the coder if code is questionable | 08:16 |
| fonky | or rewrite it | 08:16 |
| fonky | mozilla did delete the old repo though | 08:17 |
| fonky | well, could come handy | 08:17 |
| fonky | in any case try ipfuck.xpi | 08:17 |
| bengiul | any other ones you like? | 08:18 |
| bengiul | i try to use few plug-ins to prevent cpu use | 08:18 |
| fonky | that one just changes ip the server side sees | 08:18 |
| fonky | per http request | 08:18 |
| fonky | some sort of masking | 08:18 |
| fonky | easy on the cpu | 08:19 |
| fonky | nice for badly configured apache nginx installs | 08:19 |
| bengiul | that's oh ty | 08:25 |
| bengiul | interestin indeed | 08:25 |
| bengiul | it is replaced by ipflood now? | 08:26 |
| bengiul | khadas vim3 will be fun with devuan ceres | 09:33 |
| bengiul | fast enough for 1080p h264 video with just sofware / x11 | 09:34 |
| golinux | TAKE IT TO #DEBIANFORK | 09:37 |
| bengiul | well this is fun the amount of breakage i have | 10:17 |
| bengiul | but i'll work my through with dpkg | 10:17 |
| bengiul | ok gpgconf setup | 10:20 |
| bengiul | init-system-helpers manually installed | 10:20 |
| bengiul | but that broke /usr/lib/apt/methods/http: error while loading shared libraries: libhogweed.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 10:21 |
| bengiul | where do i manually grab aarch64 libhogweed5 ? | 10:24 |
| bengiul | http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/ceres/main/binary-arm64/ doesn't have packages | 10:25 |
| bengiul | i forgot the structure of the apt server | 10:25 |
| bengiul | no debs here either http://deb.devuan.org/devuan/dists/ceres/main/binary-arm64/ | 10:33 |
| bengiul | need to fix apt | 11:17 |
| bengiul | can i browse to my needed files? http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ | 11:18 |
| onefang | The tricky bit with that is that the Devuan mirrors redirect most packages to the Debian mirror system, coz we only fork a small percentage of files to remove systemd. | 11:28 |
| bengiul | ah! | 11:28 |
| bengiul | well i have an unbroken arm64 system that i can use to pull packages | 11:29 |
| bengiul | then scp over | 11:29 |
| onefang | If you look at the relevant Packages files on the mirrors, it will give you the full paths, which will get redirected if /DEBIAN/ or /DEBIAN-SECURITY/ is in the path. | 11:29 |
| bengiul | thanks | 11:29 |
| bengiul | woo fixed apt | 12:38 |
| bengiul | ok no not quite | 12:45 |
| bengiul | aptitude | 13:02 |
| bengiul | Ouch! Got SIGSEGV, dying.. | 13:02 |
| bengiul | heh | 13:02 |
| Hum | I got the request to send the bug report 474 to debian. There is no documentation about it at https://bugs.devuan.org/Reporting.html . Maybe I can write a text about it and send it to someone with write access. https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=474 | 14:24 |
| Hum | What is the normal way to report a bug upstream, just file a complete new bug report, maybe cut'n'paste from the original one and add links to the down- and upstream bug reports? | 14:28 |
| Bjornn | looks like that issue is bouncing back and forth between debian and devuan Hum | 14:28 |
| Hum | Bjornn: I didn't have a look at debian now. | 14:29 |
| Bjornn | I have a copy of debian and devuan so I can switch in and out, that would be a great way to test to see if it is a debian problem or a devuan problem | 14:30 |
| Hum | I just find a bug report about a missing man page at the Debian BTS. Where and what do you see about the issue bouncing back and forth? | 14:32 |
| Bjornn | at your link https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=474 | 14:33 |
| Bjornn | debian passed it devuan and devuan passed it back to debian | 14:33 |
| Bjornn | the emails attached at the bottom | 14:35 |
| fsmithred | I see nothing on that page showing that the report went to debian. | 14:36 |
| fsmithred | And the last message requests that the submitter send a bug report to debian. | 14:36 |
| Hum | Me too, I even did a forced-reload of the page | 14:37 |
| fsmithred | bugs are not automatically forwarded to debian. We thought that might not work out so well. | 14:37 |
| Hum | fsmithred: should "reportbug --bts debian avfs" work? | 14:37 |
| fsmithred | no clue if that would work | 14:37 |
| fsmithred | I always submit bugs manually through email | 14:37 |
| Hum | fsmithred: thx. A feature like "Forward this bug upstream" for maintainer would be nice. I guess I would have to file that feature request to Debian?! Though Debian would use it quite seldom, I guess. Ubuntu, Devuan and others would take most of the profit. | 14:39 |
| fsmithred | no, reportbug is a forked package. We'll take bug reports for it. | 14:40 |
| Hum | Ok. | 14:42 |
| Bjornn | my bad, I thought debian was the originator of the first email | 14:44 |
| Hum | reportbug --bts debian says relaying denied. I will try to file a bug at devuan, right? | 14:50 |
| FrapeX | I've been trying several xfce/gtk themes and noticed that some of these themes really slow down the GUI (on my box anyway, AMD Athlon XP 2400+). For example, with the Adwaita all is snappy, moving the mouse cursor with The Gimp is instant and editing works greats. But, with for example the theme Xfce-kolors all becomes sluggish and gimp becomes unusable. What could be the reason for that? | 14:53 |
| Xelraa | AthlonXP that didnt even have SSE2 be happy devuan even boots on that | 16:19 |
| Xelraa | FrapeX better to use an old OS for an old system | 16:19 |
| Hum | FrapeX: If you find a solution better then devuan/debian, please tell me. [X|L]ubuntu will lose support for 32bit i586 sooner or later. | 16:51 |
| some_alex | hi! There is no SHA256SUMS.asc file in installer-iso dir on mirrors for beowulf_3.0.0_RC | 17:07 |
| FrapeX | Hum: I choose Devian because it still supports my system. Ubuntu dropped support for i386, I know ;( | 17:13 |
| Hum | FrapeX: yes, ubuntu already dropped support, with lubuntu and xubuntu the support end 2021-04 or something like that | 17:14 |
| debdog | huh, how do wine-users cope with that? | 17:14 |
| FrapeX | Xelraa: yes, but I want to stay up-to-date with security updates also. WinXP works great, but no security updates with that anymore. | 17:16 |
| some_alex | who manages ISO images and mirror infrastructure here? | 17:16 |
| FrapeX | Hum: unfortunately | 17:16 |
| fsmithred | some_alex, I'm checking if there a sig file somewhere | 17:25 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Ubuntu hasn't copletely dropped support, it's needed for wine and steam. | 17:27 |
| some_alex | fsmithred: thanks, how long does it take to propagate to mirrors? | 17:28 |
| debdog | I see, so just the kernel but kept the multiarch thingy? sixwheeledbeast | 17:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | https://ubuntu.com/blog/statement-on-32-bit-i386-packages-for-ubuntu-19-10-and-20-04-lts | 17:28 |
| fsmithred | not sure how long for isos, probably a few hours | 17:28 |
| fsmithred | some_alex, what are you looking for? | 17:29 |
| some_alex | fsmithred: I need SHA256SUMS.asc for /devuan/devuan_beowulf/installer-iso/ in order to verify the new 3.0.0_RC release before installing it | 17:30 |
| fsmithred | it's not going to propagate until it gets uploaded to files.devuan.org | 17:31 |
| fsmithred | and the dev who signs those isos will be asleep for a few more hours | 17:31 |
| fsmithred | best we can do right now is that I can tell you what I'm getting for a checksum if I have the file you want, because I got them before they even went up on the server. | 17:33 |
| fsmithred | oh, nm, I don't have most of them | 17:33 |
| some_alex | fsmithred: I can wait, just wanted to tell about this so that the people in charge are aware and take action eventually :) | 17:34 |
| fsmithred | thanks | 17:34 |
| bengiul | interesting the number of things that break swapping devuan for ubuntu in sources.list and upgrading | 21:27 |
| bengiul | kind of a course in 'getting to know linux' | 21:27 |
| bengiul | reminds me of Mishka in Firefly | 21:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Well they are completely different distributions. | 21:32 |
| sixwheeledbeast | even if they are both debian derivatives | 21:32 |
| bengiul | it's fun. if i don't manage to sweep-up the ubuntu remains and kill systemd, i'll learn how to make a proper devuan image for this board | 21:35 |
| bengiul | trying to do stuff teaches me respect for people who can do stuff | 21:37 |
| bengiul | that respect seems a bit lacking nowadays | 21:37 |
| bengiul | ldconfig: file /usr/lib/aarch64-linux-gnu/libresvg.so.0 is truncated | 21:38 |
| sixwheeledbeast | whatever floats your boat | 21:39 |
| bengiul | i just want devuan on this sbc | 21:39 |
| sixwheeledbeast | devuan has an arm64 build? | 21:48 |
| golinux | bengiul: Did you ever look at this post that I suggested? https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3464 | 21:49 |
| golinux | sixwheeledbeast: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=24 | 21:49 |
| sixwheeledbeast | it was a question as to why not use them | 21:50 |
| gnarface | sixwheeledbeast: yes, there are some arm64 images | 21:52 |
| bengiul | from what i've read on khadas forum i'd need to roll my own kernel and get that into my image | 21:53 |
| gnarface | possibly. you can get devuan onto a lot more devices than just what there are images already available for | 21:54 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Yer I know about them I don't understand why bengiul not using them? Is there a reason to go from ubuntu > devuan? | 21:54 |
| gnarface | usually the only hard part is building a kernel and u-boot for the device. then you can debootstrap the rest normally | 21:54 |
| bengiul | i'm trying to avoid the hard part :) | 21:55 |
| bengiul | systemd will have won when the linux kernel requires it | 21:55 |
| gnarface | people will just change to a different kernel then | 21:55 |
| gnarface | there are some waiting in the wings already, merely starved of the commercial attention Linux has been getting lately | 21:56 |
| gnarface | then Microsoft will buy Linux and close source it | 21:56 |
| gnarface | or something obnoxious like that | 21:57 |
| gnarface | but that's not really a support discussion until it actually happens | 21:57 |
| gnarface | i'm not clicking on that link, bengiul, sorry | 22:00 |
| frabbit | is it possible, that dhclient and wicd-gtk kills each other? | 23:22 |
| frabbit | after offline install i used dhclient to update the system. then i installed wicd-gtk and tested if it works and it does. now i booted the compter and runned a script to update the system via apt, but it has dchlient at the beginning. dhclient wasnt able to get a connection, so i tried to connect via wicd-gtk but it coudnt get a connection either... | 23:24 |
| frabbit | i rebooted and tried to get a connection with wicd-gtk and avoid dhclient but it still doesnt work... | 23:26 |
| frabbit | dhcp tries several times when running dhclient, but in the end it faisl and gives: "No DHCPOFFERS recieved" and No working leases in persistent database - sleeping." | 23:28 |
| frabbit | *fails | 23:28 |
| gnarface | hmm, possible, though that error could be caused by other stuff too | 23:34 |
| gnarface | did you try assigning a static ip? | 23:34 |
| frabbit | gnarface: no not yet, but i need that clickable thing to work again, its not for my computer (i do this stuff manually) | 23:35 |
| gnarface | yea but a static ip would be to check to make sure the problem isn't with the network itself | 23:36 |
| gnarface | or the device | 23:36 |
| gnarface | mabye dhclient is just running on the wrong device | 23:36 |
| gnarface | i don't know if it's allergic to wicd-gtk or not but that seems possible | 23:36 |
| frabbit | no can say its not. it worked yesterday and im on the same router atm with this computer im usign. | 23:37 |
| frabbit | oh wait | 23:37 |
| frabbit | in the settings there is the localhost as hostname, but i changed that at least yesterday | 23:37 |
| frabbit | hm doenst help to write the new hostname there... | 23:39 |
| frabbit | weird here in wicd-gtk settings i can choose dhclient... so it shouldnt kill each other... | 23:40 |
| frabbit | ill reboot again, maybe thats necessary to get that hostname change in wicd to work... | 23:41 |
| frabbit | doesnt helped... | 23:50 |
| gnarface | might it be an issue with wicd being allergic to the hand crafted /etc/network/interfaces file? | 23:50 |
| gnarface | that happens with wicd and network manager, i think | 23:50 |
| frabbit | ill try changing back the hostname, reboot and check again | 23:51 |
| frabbit | gnarface: sure but i didnt touched that file | 23:51 |
| frabbit | and with dhclient, i broke my network ones with this... | 23:51 |
| frabbit | *once | 23:51 |
| frabbit | argh! frustrating! | 23:55 |
| frabbit | why not one service, usabel as cli and or gui.... *sigh* | 23:55 |
| frabbit | *usable | 23:56 |
| frabbit | great this shit breaks everything. | 23:57 |
| gnarface | it's probably simple to fix | 23:58 |
| frabbit | i try removing dhfoobar | 23:58 |
| gnarface | there are more than one dhcp clients in the repo available | 23:59 |
| gnarface | one of the others might work better | 23:59 |
| gnarface | but this may also be a known issue that others have addressed, i just don't use wicd myself | 23:59 |
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