libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2020-07-14

fsmithredthere are some edits you might want to restore if you took the maintainers' new versions.00:00
bsd4meNo. There was only one to upgrade, but right this moment can't remember which one it was :(00:00
fsmithredetc/sysctl.conf?00:00
fsmithredkernel.sysrq=100:00
bsd4meit's commented out00:01
bsd4me#kernel.sysrq=43800:01
fsmithredyeah, add the line I posted if you want to enable all magic sysrq keys00:02
bsd4meok,00:03
bsd4medone00:03
bsd4meran sysctl again and it read the change00:05
fsmithredoh00:05
fsmithredI just learned something. :)00:05
fsmithredlxdm.conf?00:05
bsd4menot installed00:07
bsd4metbh, seems like it was something about pam??????00:07
fsmithredyou replaced it with something else?00:07
fsmithredyes00:07
fsmithredthere's some pam file that shows up as changed, but I don't recall changing it00:07
fsmithredI can find it.00:08
bsd4mesigh, all I remember right now, is that it was something that seemed ok to upgrade. Reconized it whatever it was00:08
fsmithredI took the new versions in all cases because they were different from the old versions.00:09
bsd4meok. Here's the iso I used ... refracta-test-oblx_5.6bpo_openrc-20200630_1456.iso00:11
fsmithredoh00:11
fsmithredthe directions were based on upgrade of refracta-beowulf-xfce00:11
bsd4meAlso tried the chimaera iso, but it wouldn't boot into X00:11
bsd4meoh :)00:12
fsmithredetc/pam.d/login00:13
bsd4methink that's it!00:14
fsmithredthe chimaera iso has no display manager00:16
fsmithredit should still go to desktop in a live boot00:16
fsmithredbut once installed, you'd need to run startx00:17
bsd4meIt got into a loop and I couldn't break out of it. Had to reboot00:17
fsmithredoh, weird00:17
fsmithredanyway, the iso you got is a little more complete00:17
bsd4meI'm enjoying it right now :)   The graphics is R4 :(  that was the problem with chimaera booting00:18
fsmithredwhat's that?00:19
bsd4meso I booted the refracta-test, and it booted fine00:19
bsd4meAMD Stoney [Radeon R2/R3/R4/R5 Graphics] vendor: Lenovo00:19
fsmithredprobably firmware-amd-graphics made the difference00:20
fsmithredpretty sure I installed it in that one00:21
bsd4meyes, it's installed00:22
fsmithreddid you right-click on the desktop yet?00:23
fsmithrednote that Reboot and Shutdown do NOT mean "Ask me if I want to reboot/shutdown"00:25
bsd4melol, trying, but have elan touchpad and have to adjust libinput00:25
bsd4mebut yes, have right-clicked and I see the menu00:26
fsmithredI am sometimes tempted to switch to openbox on my main machine just for those two menu items.00:27
fsmithredbut fact is, I don't do much rebooting on this box.00:27
bsd4meI'll have to play with this for a while. Don't normally have free virtual desktop to check that menu.00:29
bsd4memost times, just use terminal to shutdown, or use xfce menu if installed00:29
absintheHello.  Is it "safe" to use "stable/testing/unstable" in the sources.list instead of codenames ? (beowulf/ascii/...)01:05
bsd4me use codenames01:06
absinthecould you please explainn why ?01:07
bsd4meits mentioned on website, but I honestly forget which subheading :(01:07
absintheah, i'll check on the site then01:08
absinthethanks01:08
bsd4mexinput get-button-map device01:08
bsd4meoops01:08
bsd4mehttps://devuan.org/os/install01:08
absinthemh ok, it's about having more control, and avoid possible incompatible repos01:11
absinthemakes sens, i guess one repo might update it's "suite" kinda late, and it might then cause issue01:13
bsd4meare you thinking about upgrading?01:17
absinthei did alreay, im on chimaera01:18
bsd4meah, ok :)   I just upgraded to chimaera also01:18
absinthehey, bro ;p01:19
absintheusing "testing" instead of codename made me feel like having some kind of rolling distro01:19
absintherolling release*01:20
bsd4melol, yep01:20
mason'testing' *is* a rolling release01:20
bsd4meused that on debian for a number of years01:20
bsd4mebefore systemd01:21
absinthemason: but using the codename makes it less sound like a rolling release01:22
absinthe*sound less01:22
absinthein my head, at least..01:24
bsd4mejust looked at installing gnucash. Requires 89 new packages. I don't see anything wrong, but just asking here to verify it's ok.01:28
masonSounds right. It's big.01:29
bsd4meyeah. Ok, going to install01:30
masonbsd4me: So, I don't run what counts as a modern desktop environment, and it'd be 173 packages for me to install it, if that makes you feel any better. :)01:30
bsd4melol, yep :)01:30
fsmithredchimaera=bullseye and both are Testing right now01:31
bsd4medunno how many I'd need if I was still running fluxbox or icewm01:31
fsmithredbullseye will become Stable before chimaera does, so they won't both be Testing then.01:31
fsmithredI think recommends are excluded in that one01:31
bsd4mea few like gnucash-docs01:32
fsmithredif not, add --no-install-recommends01:32
fsmithred54 here01:33
bsd4meinstalling now01:33
fsmithredbut only 133 MB for all those packages!01:33
bsd4me130 here01:35
golinuxabsinthe: There is no way to do a "testing" release safely in Devuan because we are always behind Debian.  Ceres would be the closest to a true testing.01:56
absinthethanks pointing this out02:32
absinthei'll stick with chimaera for a while tho, it was kinda a pain to upgrade from beowulf, tbh, because of conflicting packages02:33
fsmithredyou will likely still get occasional pains and conflicts.02:45
golinuxabsinthe: Sadly, the road that Debian continues to go down produces more and more conflicts and obstacles.  :(02:48
systemdletevlc played a youtube video.  I restarted vlc, and it hasn't worked since.03:15
systemdleteI tried installing a lua script, that didn't help either03:15
systemdleteone thing I notice is that there is an "expiry" in the logged output -- I used a tool to convert it, and sure enough, the timestamp is expired.03:16
systemdleteBut this same video continues to play fine in firefox.03:16
systemdleteI tried youtube-dl and it complains about parameters03:18
systemdletenvm.  If I enqueue the video first, then play it, works fine.03:20
systemdleteLOL03:20
gnarfacesystemdlete: lately, the primary solution for issues with vlc for me has been to delete the config directory03:30
systemdletenow broken again... :(03:30
systemdleteconfig dir?  You mean .local/share/vlc?03:30
systemdleteno, I see.03:32
systemdletethre is both a .local and a .config subdir for vlc03:32
gnarfacesystemdlete: ~/.vlc, ~/.videolan ~/.config/vlc ~/.local/share/vlc, ~/.vlcrc03:32
systemdleteyipes03:33
gnarfacesystemdlete: they like to rename/hide it.  can't be too careful03:33
gnarfacesystemdlete: if you update it, it's a statistically likely that the old configuration will break things either subtly or overtly03:33
gnarface*it's statistically likely03:34
systemdleteyou left out .cache/vlc   LOL03:34
gnarfaceheh, woops03:34
systemdletegotcha!!!03:34
systemdlete"old configuration?"  I just started using it today.  No vlc update.03:34
gnarfaceoh, maybe that's not the issue then03:35
gnarfacethe thing about it working once then failing to work even after restart though seemed familiar03:35
gnarfacethat's when i always had to purge the config03:35
systemdletewell, let's see if these fixes work...03:35
systemdlete"Allow metadata network access?"03:36
systemdleteIs that needed for youtube vids?03:36
gnarfacesystemdlete: hell no03:37
gnarfacesystemdlete: that's so it can query the cddb/freedb databases to populate audio cd track info03:38
systemdleteoh.  I figured that it was cddb.03:39
gnarfacesystemdlete: if you care about privacy you should probably disable that03:39
systemdleteI did.  Check the log for details?  Where is the log?03:40
systemdleteI don't see "log" in the menus.03:40
systemdlete(FAIL)03:40
gnarfacei'm not sure it has it's own log, but check the xorg log and dmesg03:44
gnarfacemaybe syslog or kern.log too03:44
gnarfacemaybe check the man page for command-line options to enable logging, but make sure you also looked in the "advanced" mode of the preferences views03:45
gnarfaceit actually has a ton of options but most of them are hidden by default03:45
systemdleteI think it wanted me to configure a log... and then that did not work.03:46
systemdlete(FAIL)03:46
systemdleteI did not check the syslog box so I doubt anything is going there03:47
systemdleteIs there something better than vlc?03:47
absinthei personally use mpv/mplayer03:50
absintheyou'd need youtube-dl to direcly watch youtube videos03:50
absintheno wait.  You'll need youtube-dl to watch youtube videos from mpv/mplayer03:51
absinthe(if it makes more sense)03:51
systemdletehttps://pastebin.com/QF6CWfwk  with mpv04:19
systemdleteseems this might be an incompat with ffmpeg?04:22
absinthemh, works fine here. there's some kind of tls issue, is your clock synchronized ?04:23
absinthe*in the error message you showed04:23
absinthealso, are you able to download the video with youtube-dl ?04:23
systemdleteno, I cannot use youtube-dl.  It also fails04:25
systemdleteis my clock synchronized with ... youtube?   I have no idea!04:25
systemdleteI doubt it is off more than a few seconds at most04:26
systemdleteI'll check my system time against nis04:26
absinthenah, just, is your clock OK (like correct time and date), or are you in the future/past ?04:26
absintheok04:26
absintheit should be fine then.04:26
systemdleteabsinthe:  Would you kindly try the video I am trying to run?04:27
systemdlete(It's a musical piece)04:27
absinthei did, it works04:27
systemdletewith... which tool?04:27
systemdleteare you on ascii or on beowulf?04:28
absintheim  on chimaera, and i used mpv (which itself uses youtube-dl)04:28
systemdletewhat version of mpv and what version of youtube-dl, just so I can compare04:29
systemdlete(if you don't mind)04:29
absinthewhat happens if you try to, let's say, curl https://google.com ?04:29
absinthempv 0.32.004:29
absintheand 2020.06.16.1 for youtube-dl04:30
systemdleteno problem with curl at all.  OK, thanks let me look...04:30
systemdletemy mpv is 0.23.0 and youtube-dl is, like, uh... from 2017?04:31
systemdleteI have applied all updates on ascii, I swear!04:31
systemdletein fact, I just did updates a few hours ago.04:31
systemdleteso you and I are comparing apples and salami04:32
absinthei don't use youtube-dl from the repos, i fetched it from youtube-dl.github.io (not sure about the address, better double check)04:32
absintheit gets updated more frequently than from the repos04:33
systemdleteabsinthe: I appreciate the help.  In the future, you might want to let people know that you are helping them against much different versions, so they know.04:33
systemdleteThe only issue I have with using non-repo anything is that it is typically unsupported.04:33
systemdleteOf course, you are running on chimaera, so...04:34
absintheindeed.  sorry wasting your time /o\04:34
systemdleteno, not wasting it.04:34
systemdleteIt is good to know that it might work again in the future!04:34
absintheahah04:34
systemdleteI'd upgrade that VM to beowulf, but I'm in the middle of other things atm.04:35
systemdletegnarface:  Do you have an ascii that's updated available?  If you do, maybe run the same test on yours (same video:  https://youtu.be/U4RmJaP683A04:38
systemdlete(or anyone else here, for that matter)04:39
systemdleteit's weird that it seems to work on and off, but not consistently04:39
systemdleteabsinthe:  Thanks for that tip on getting the latest version of the youtube downloader -- it (and vlc also) seem to work a LOT better on beowulf, but I've only tried them each a couple times.05:55
systemdleteso, see not wasting time at all.  You did end up helping me.05:55
systemdleteI am using (or trying to) ffmpeg to convert the webm to mp3 so I can play it on my smartphone when I walk -- very pleasant music!05:56
systemdleteused to be that when I connected my phone to my desktop, it would automatically mount it as a usb drive.  Not getting that now.  I installed mtp-tools, but no help.06:33
systemdletemtp-sendfile seems to work, though.06:37
gnarfacesystemdlete: see if you're missing udisks2, that might explain the usb mounting thing07:59
systemdleteit's installed already.  I think I see what the problem was.  You have to use mtp tools now because android (as of 4 or so) no longer supports file server08:00
systemdleteI discovered that ffmpeg only translated the first 5 mins or so of a 45 min piece.08:03
gnarfacesystemdlete: oh, that might be an android change i vaguely recall hearing about, yea.  sorry, no androids here and no asciis left with soundcards08:03
systemdlete:)08:03
systemdletethe smart people move on08:03
systemdletebut, otoh, I found that vlc is available on android and plays webm files fine, such as the one I get from youtube-dl08:04
systemdleteso, it works.08:04
systemdletefor me08:04
systemdleteIf there are better tools for webm->mp3 let me know08:05
systemdleteffmpeg apparently leaves skips and other horrors in the resulting file08:05
kreyrenCan i somewhere request devuan to make an official dockerimage or can i submit one?10:52
* kreyren is loosing his mind with trying to keep hacking around that when he needs to test something on devuan's userland~10:53
kreyrenbasically bootstrap builds it and then it can just be `ADD`-ed to be submitted to dockerhub o.o10:53
absinthesystemdlete: you can extract only audio using ''youtube-dl -x''.  I've had issues in the past with vlc on android, which would stop playing when mixing video and audio files11:16
wikanhi17:21
* wikan waves17:21
wikani am trying to setup lxc containsers under devuan17:22
wikanit is very fucked17:22
wikandunno who wrote the scripts but it is not done well :|17:23
zatumilsend patches please17:25
wikani would17:25
wikanbut i am trying to calm yet17:25
wikanforgot init.d and have to learn rc again :)17:26
wikanlxc dependency installs dnsmasq17:27
wikaninstalled ndsmasq starts at boot17:27
wikanand somebody wrote lxc-net script to run dnsmasq at boot :D17:28
wikanand of course lxc-net gets errors because dnsmasq is already started17:28
wikani am not even good in lxc but even I can see it is fucked as hell17:33
wikanhow to send patches? i don't get it?17:34
masonwikan: Verify against Debian as well. Might be that the issue is there.17:35
wikandebian "was" doing it well17:36
wikannot sure it there is newest version17:36
wikanwell... almost nobody use lxc :D17:38
wikanmost ppl use lxd17:38
masonEveryone using LXD is using LXC be definition.17:38
masonBut yeah.17:38
masons/be/by/17:39
wikanyes, but probably lxd has its own scripts17:39
wikani have never used lxd - dunno17:39
masonwikan: What you might try is using lxc but not lxc-net, and just doing your own bridging.17:41
masonHopefully that'll avoid the issues you're seeing.17:41
wikanyeap this is what i will do17:41
golinuxwikan: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/lxc-templates17:41
wikani fixed lxc-net issues17:41
wikanbut some stuff from lxc-net script is "new" for me17:42
wikandunno why somebody wrote it so must figure out it first17:42
wikanwhy the hell it uses dnsmasq17:43
wikanfor example ^17:43
golinuxThis might also be useful https://git.devuan.org/TanyaEleventhGoddess/cgroupfs-mount17:47
wikandont get it17:48
wikancan you explain me why you are giving me these links?17:48
wikani am lost probably17:49
golinuxwikan: A devuan dev is fixing lxc17:56
golinuxat least trying to.  Containers are a mystery to me so I just keep track of who's doing what.17:57
furrywolfI've yet to understand why containers are considered beneficial, or think of any useful use case for them.17:58
masonfurrywolf: Task isolation without the overhead of running a dedicated kernel per task.18:00
masonfurrywolf: They also let you move workloads around in a way you can't without some sort of virtualization.18:00
bgstack15Has anyone else run into issues when running "debuild -us -uc" for any package at all? I have noticed that recently I always have to do a -nc to skip the pre-clean, in order for the process to work correctly.18:02
furrywolfexcept there's already mechanisms to isolate tasks, and a properly setup system will be pretty isolated to start with...  and most workloads can just be rsynced around...  and you don't end up with the maintenance nightmare of having libraries bundled with applications instead of proper shared libraries where a single upgrade ensures all applications are using the current version with no additional effort...18:03
masonbgstack15: Last build I did didn't need it, but I can try again.18:03
masonfurrywolf: How would you recommend I run the Unifi controller locally?18:04
furrywolfgiven as I have no idea what it is, I'd start by googling.  :)18:04
masonDuckDuckGo might be better, but that's a valid strategy.18:05
masonAnyway, the point is that if I have a collection of services and related configs, I don't want that to sprawl across random systems, and I don't want to have to coordinate updating them and a collection of hosts in lockstep.18:06
masonIf I isolate them, I can move them around as I do maintenance on hosts, and update them independently.18:07
furrywolfmy biggest gripe about containers is that including library dependencies in them ensures you end up running obsolete and likely insecure versions of them, unless you go through the maintenance headache of repacking your containers every time any library updates.  proper shared libraries allow all applications on a system to automatically always use the most recent version with a single update.18:09
furrywolfand then you get idiocy like krita being distributed as a container with _half_ the libraries it needs to run, all of which are always invariably of incompatible versions that will not function with the other half provided by devuan/debian...18:10
furrywolfI've never actually managed to make the packaged krita from their website run.  :P18:11
masonfurrywolf: That's more a complaint about service-oriented containers. System containers, you just update them with the rest of your infrastructure.18:11
masonFrom the workload perspective, it's just more computers to update.18:12
bgstack15ah, my problem is related to dpkg-dev=1.20.3. When I downgrade to 1.19.7 everything works fine again.18:13
masonbgstack15: Ah, I've not tried 1.20.3, just 1.19.7 here.18:14
zatumilwhy is lxc-net running if there is dh_installinit --no-start lxc-net in debian/rules?18:20
zatumiloh i see lxc does not use dh_installinit --no-enable option18:27
wikando you know how to restart nftables?18:33
masonfurrywolf: Just remembered a really critical win - when my services move around, the addresses move with them, so stuff using them doesn't need to know anything's happened.18:40
systemdleteabsinthe:  I found that passing the "best" (0) quality to the post-processing (ffmpeg) actually produces a clean mp3 file.18:46
systemdletealso, have to pass the format, I chose mp318:46
systemdletesounds really good.  Thanks for the tip.18:46
masonwikan: So, yeah, even without the lxc-net stuff, lxc is struggling to behave properly.18:48
zatumilthere was a sysvinit example in nftables debian/0.6-118:48
wikanmason, yea :) but i like it ;)19:07
wikani wonder why the fuck there is /etc/nftable.conf file if nftable doesn't load it :|19:14
FatPhilIs there a way of estimating how much storage space an upgrade from jessie to ascii would take? I'm really low on space on my RasPi.21:35
FatPhilI could temporarily move /var/cache/apt onto an external usb device to help. And uninstall emacs. However, it would be nice to know how many mitigations I might need to make.21:37
fsmithredFatPhil, 'aptitude -s full-upgrade' will tell you how much additional space will be used21:39
FatPhilI can see what that says, but it won't tell be about the ephemeral requirements before the old stuff's deleted, I'm sure.21:42
fsmithredI think it tells you how much you will download21:47
FatPhilah, do I need to have run an aptitude update first with the new sources.list?21:49
fsmithredyeah, or it won't know about the new packages21:49
fsmithredupdate/upgrade before changing sources.list21:49
fsmithredif you haven't done it recently21:49
fsmithredthen edit and update again21:49
FatPhilI'm as up-to-date as a jessie can be!21:50
fsmithredyeah, I just remembered that21:50
fsmithredthere's an upgrade guide21:50
fsmithredI don't remeber if there are any tricky points going to ascii21:51
FatPhilI don't want to head down a path that I won't be able to complete21:51
FatPhilOn a couple of other machines I've done a smooth and easy jessie-ascii, it's just this RasPi that's the hold-out.21:51
fsmithredhttps://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/upgrade-to-ascii.html21:52
fsmithredyeah, most of my upgrades to ascii were easy21:52
FatPhilare all of the downloads under /var/cache/apt?21:57
FatPhilOh dear, this looks impossible: Need to get 318 MB of archives. After unpacking 262 MB will be used.21:58
masonFatPhil: Replacing existing things maybe?21:59
masonFatPhil: ...with newer things that are smaller?21:59
FatPhilI presume that's 262MB *more*. However, horrible unresolvable conflicts are appearing.22:01
FatPhilI think i might just stay at jessie, this is way too hairy22:01
FatPhilI have an emergency hot-swap RasPi, I will install a fresher devuan on that, and then migrate services and users to that.22:04
FatPhilgood job I didn't head to the out-of-town shopping centre today where the IT store is, as I will need some bits before I can bring the Pi up.22:05
systemdletepthread_np.h -- that isn't available in devuan, even in beowulf, from what I can tell.  Is there some additional repo for that?22:08
systemdletethanks22:08
FatPhilHmmmm, beowolf doesn't support the old RasPi :/22:10
yetiI've beowulf on pi1..3 but with ascii's kernel22:14
yetiprobably i'm just not uptodate about newer images22:14
fsmithredfreebsd-glue: /usr/include/freebsd/pthread_np.h22:15
fsmithredsystemdlete, ^^^ in beowulf22:16
FatPhilAscii's modern enough to have the packages/versions I need, fortunately.22:17
systemdleteglue22:21
systemdletegood22:21
systemdleteneed more glue, make it all work22:21
systemdletethanks.22:21

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