| hagbard_ | Is it intended, that there aren't any apt-changelogs for packages from devuan repositorys, or might something be misconfigured on my side? | 00:41 |
|---|---|---|
| mason | hagbard_: I see apt changelogs here. | 00:48 |
| hagbard_ | hmm, ok. that means i can possibly get it to work too. | 00:49 |
| mason | Can you give me an example of packages you're querying? And what release are you on? | 00:50 |
| hagbard_ | got "empty URI" (or siimilar) messages from synaptic. | 00:50 |
| hagbard_ | And im on testing, with a few packages from unstable. | 00:51 |
| mason | Ah, Beowulf here. That could conceivably matter. | 00:51 |
| hagbard_ | Oh, i see there are changelogs for older packages, but not for those that are currently upgradeble. So maybe the changelogs simply just show up a bit later than the packages themselves. | 00:54 |
| hagbard_ | But whatever, no biggie. | 00:54 |
| mason | I'm not familiar with the mechanism used for 'apt changelog' - looking now. | 00:55 |
| mason | hagbard_: So, /usr/share/doc/foo/changelog.gz seems to exist for lots of packages. dpkg -L suggests that this is actually shipped with each package. | 00:57 |
| hagbard_ | Hmm, it looks like for already intalled packages the changelogs are read locally (works of course), and for not yet installed/upgraded packages they are fetched from the server, wich doesn't seem to work. | 00:57 |
| mason | There's also changelog.Debian.gz that shows up commonly. | 00:58 |
| mason | Ah, you want to see the changelog that explains why it's being changed. | 00:58 |
| mason | before installing | 00:58 |
| hagbard_ | ...so in the latter case, all I get is "URI was empty" | 00:58 |
| hagbard_ | yes | 00:58 |
| mason | Looking. | 00:58 |
| mason | hagbard_: https://askubuntu.com/questions/272215/seeing-apt-get-changelogs-for-to-be-upgraded-packages#272433 | 00:59 |
| mason | Looks like apt-listchanges might be what you want. | 00:59 |
| mason | Looks like it still has to grab the package. | 01:00 |
| mason | hagbard_: Upstream also has pages like: https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/a/apt/apt_2.1.10_changelog | 01:00 |
| hagbard_ | nah. With debian it was possible with apt/aptitude/synaptic to read the changelogs before/without installing anything. apt-listchanges shows the changelogs after it got the packages. | 01:02 |
| mason | hagbard_: I don't initially see a Devuan equivalent, but it might exist. | 01:02 |
| mason | I wonder if this is what's being queried, this /changelogs/ tree. | 01:03 |
| hagbard_ | Seems to be a know, open bug: https://beta.devuan.org/gitlab-issues/devuan.devuan-project.59.html | 01:03 |
| mason | Sure enough. | 01:04 |
| hagbard_ | Which got forwarded to debian, and then forgotten since two years: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=889924 | 01:05 |
| mason | hagbard_: kk, seeing this now - on a Debian box, buster-backports can give me changelogs for uninstalled packages (easiest thing for me to check) where beowulf-backports cannot. I'm assuming it's this lack of online changlogs in Devuan at issue. | 01:11 |
| hagbard_ | probably, yes. | 01:12 |
| mason | Oh, unless it's also hardcoded in apt. Worth looking. Between this and the libsystemd0 dependency, it might be worth forking apt. | 01:14 |
| mason | and similar | 01:14 |
| u0 | is this the devuan hangout? | 02:49 |
| mason | This, and also #devuan-offtopic. | 02:49 |
| Xenguy | This is the 'on-topic' channel | 02:49 |
| Xenguy | There is #debianfork also for OT chatter | 02:50 |
| u0 | for general help, I can't add a new user, useradd and adduser as root return 'command not found' | 02:51 |
| mason | u0: Do this as root. | 02:52 |
| u0 | i did, in konsole, after su | 02:52 |
| Xenguy | Sounds like your install is incomplete | 02:52 |
| mason | Xenguy: It's not that. It's a behavioural change in su. | 02:52 |
| Xenguy | What? | 02:53 |
| mason | u0: try using su - instead, and there's a config change to get the old behaviour where you pick up root's paths | 02:53 |
| mason | Half a sec and I'll find a reference. | 02:53 |
| Xenguy | Of course, 'su -' should always be used | 02:53 |
| u0 | I did su and got the root prompt so I figured it was good | 02:53 |
| fsmithred | except when it shoudn't | 02:53 |
| mason | Here we are. echo "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" >> /etc/default/su | 02:53 |
| Xenguy | Do 'su -', pretty much always | 02:54 |
| fsmithred | I don't because it moves me to another dir, and I'm usually already where I want to be | 02:54 |
| Xenguy | That's fine too, but there's something to be said for just doing it correctly : -) | 02:54 |
| * Xenguy shrugs... | 02:54 | |
| mason | Xenguy: "Correctly" is a matter of opinion with this. For instance, I do it correctly, and I don't use su at all. | 02:55 |
| fsmithred | it's linux. There are 10 correct ways. | 02:55 |
| mason | (This is also why I haven't internalized the fix, and have to look it up.) | 02:55 |
| mason | This particular change doesn't affect me two different ways. :P | 02:55 |
| fsmithred | GNU/Linux | 02:55 |
| mason | Lignux. | 02:56 |
| Xenguy | mason: Agreed, and my opinion is that 'sudo' is crap (from Ubuntu-land), and people who want root to work as expected use 'su -' | 02:56 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred: haha, too true | 02:56 |
| Xenguy | My my way is more correct! | 02:56 |
| mason | Xenguy: As long as you recognize that that's not only just an opinion, but a minority opinion, we're good. | 02:56 |
| Xenguy | *But my | 02:56 |
| fsmithred | but then you can't use the user's xserver | 02:56 |
| Xenguy | mason: My opinion is usually correct I've found, I can't lie to you = ) | 02:57 |
| mason | fsmithred: Sure, you manually explicate DISPLAY. | 02:57 |
| u0 | I'm totally new to Devuan as well as to chat, do i reinstall or try to compete with package manager? | 02:58 |
| mason | u0: No, you're fine. Just say: echo "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" >> /etc/default/su | 02:58 |
| mason | ...and it'll do what you expect | 02:58 |
| mason | u0: What happened is that you didn't pick up /sbin and /usr/sbin from root's environment, and that's where the commands you want exist. | 02:59 |
| mason | u0: This is a change Debian made for random reasons, and Devuan has inherited it. | 02:59 |
| Xenguy | Good ol' Debian | 02:59 |
| u0 | echo "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" >> /etc/default/su followed by the same commands still returns 'command not found' | 03:01 |
| u0 | is there a gui user manager like yast in Suse? | 03:01 |
| fsmithred | log out and log in again | 03:02 |
| fsmithred | as root | 03:02 |
| mason | u0: That's odd. You can always give the full path as well: /usr/sbin/adduser or /usr/sbin/useradd | 03:02 |
| fsmithred | nothing like yast :( | 03:02 |
| u0 | ok, i'll log in as root, be back after | 03:02 |
| fsmithred | noooo!!! | 03:02 |
| fsmithred | shit | 03:03 |
| mason | fsmithred: As soon as that existed in /etc/default/su it should have been active. It's not an environment variable. I'm curious what didn't work for him. | 03:03 |
| fsmithred | nope. Gotta log out and in for it to work. | 03:05 |
| fsmithred | I just tested it. | 03:05 |
| mason | What's reading it, then? Not su. | 03:05 |
| fsmithred | and DISPLAY=:1.0 gparted didn't work | 03:05 |
| mason | Your DISPLAY isn't on :0.0? | 03:05 |
| fsmithred | nope | 03:05 |
| fsmithred | probably logged out and in when I was playing with lightdm | 03:06 |
| mason | Maybe try xhost + first then, or xhost +localhost or similar. | 03:06 |
| mason | This is something I do randomly, which is why I'm confident it generally works. | 03:06 |
| fsmithred | I tried those things last year and they didn't work. Someone else said that xhost works. Maybe again? | 03:07 |
| mason | Hrm. Unsure. Anything I say is suspect, in any event. | 03:07 |
| fsmithred | the different in behavior of su between ascii and beowulf does handle env differently | 03:07 |
| fsmithred | u3 if you are root, gtf out of here and come back as user | 03:08 |
| fsmithred | I did not mean for you to log into a root desktop | 03:08 |
| fsmithred | am I here? | 03:10 |
| mason | fsmithred: yes | 03:10 |
| fsmithred | thanks | 03:10 |
| u3 | Hey, don't talk to me like that or I'll break out in pimpples again! "USER" u3 was u0 is back, logged in as root created ok, now logged as user u3, thanks. That will complete my Devuan torturesession for today before the rest of my hair falls out. Later. | 03:10 |
| fsmithred | hey | 03:11 |
| fsmithred | I meant in your terminal window | 03:11 |
| fsmithred | you exit and then su and it should work | 03:11 |
| u3 | well it DIDn't | 03:11 |
| fsmithred | ? | 03:11 |
| fsmithred | you're in beowulf? | 03:11 |
| u3 | I logged in with su , exited to u0, back and forth I don't know hao many times, su just wasn't doing it. So I did log into X (ohmegawd!) and got her done. What's the panis, whose mother did I kill? | 03:13 |
| fsmithred | probably none | 03:13 |
| u3 | yes in bewolf XFCE | 03:13 |
| mason | u3: FWIW, man su and look for "CONFIG FILES" and the description of "ALWAYS_SET_PATH" - that explains what the goal was for setting that value. | 03:13 |
| fsmithred | ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes | 03:14 |
| fsmithred | in /etc/default/su | 03:14 |
| fsmithred | check that | 03:14 |
| fsmithred | should make it work like it did in ascii. 'su' will give you root's path | 03:15 |
| u3 | OK thanks, for now I just wanted a familiar hole in the monitor after copying over my entire u3 home folder form other installations. I'm adding Devuan and Artix to Slackware to Leap+Tumbleweed to escape systemd. Got loads of paradigm to do, 'nuff for today! | 03:16 |
| mason | Was he suggesting that OpenSuSE ships a non-systemd distribution? Or is he adding things to his OpenSuSE to escape systemd? | 03:18 |
| mason | Slackware ships PulseAudio by default now, which is the slippery slope. | 03:19 |
| fsmithred | I don't know what he's doing | 03:20 |
| fsmithred | maybe just coming from suse | 03:20 |
| fsmithred | and hoping for yast in debian. I did that when I switched. | 03:20 |
| mason | It's been years since I used YaST, but I remember it being nice. | 03:21 |
| fsmithred | yeah, all admin stuff in one place and easy to use | 03:21 |
| rennj | ibm smit gui/cli, hp-ux sam gui/cli, making life simpler, suse yast gui/cli | 03:33 |
| mason | smit cli was smitty, which I liked | 03:34 |
| rennj | sun mico never could figure that one out, admintool was mess | 03:34 |
| golinux | Getting OT guys | 03:34 |
| rennj | whats devuan have again? | 03:40 |
| rennj | yast is opensauce wonder how that would integrate | 03:40 |
| mason | rennj: Same as Debian - no integrated admin center. | 03:40 |
| rennj | mr.gatekeeper you want on topic | 03:40 |
| mason | Looks like there was at least one effort to port it, but I don't see it existing for Debian, which means it's not here either. | 03:41 |
| Xenguy | I don't even see him anymore | 03:42 |
| * Xenguy is lagged, as usual... | 03:43 | |
| tuxd3v | rennj, being 'opensauce' means eveybody can see its ingredients.. | 03:43 |
| Xenguy | For apt-get'ing, I have no idea why anyone would prefer a GUI, but damn, they exist! | 03:44 |
| tuxd3v | Xenguy, the guy is nice... to test, the mouse :) | 03:44 |
| Xenguy | huh? | 03:45 |
| Xenguy | Humor, very well | 03:46 |
| tuxd3v | yeah :) | 03:46 |
| Xenguy | For gawds sake, just get on the command-line and be happy | 03:46 |
| Xenguy | su - to root, and apt-get that stuff | 03:46 |
| Xenguy | Let's do this | 03:46 |
| u3 | back again, this time I want to take notes about using su in cLi which didn't work "just like that" as it does in Suse, Slackware and Artix. What exactly was that workaround again polease? | 04:32 |
| tuxd3v | u3 whats your doubts about? | 04:33 |
| tuxd3v | 'sudo su -' works nice for me :) | 04:33 |
| Xenguy | Jesus Murphy, just keep it simple and straightforward, a.k.a. KISS | 04:34 |
| Xenguy | su - | 04:34 |
| u3 | I was trying to create new users, just with su to get me root authority (no sudo) | 04:34 |
| Xenguy | That's it | 04:34 |
| Xenguy | Works then, works now | 04:34 |
| Xenguy | Am I wrong? Why complicate? | 04:34 |
| Xenguy | screw sudo, that's Ubuntu crap | 04:35 |
| tuxd3v | Xenguy, heheh, with sudo you use the users pass :) | 04:35 |
| Xenguy | I know that, it's the complete wrong way of doing things | 04:36 |
| Xenguy | Ubuntu popularized it | 04:36 |
| Xenguy | They were wrong then, and they are wrong now | 04:36 |
| Xenguy | Simple | 04:36 |
| u3 | sonofagun it DOES work NOW, it didn't an hour ago, | 04:36 |
| Xenguy | They screwed up the time honored *nix system of separating the root and user accounts | 04:36 |
| u3 | how can I get the Mozilla Composter installed? it's my only word processor, it doesn't show up in synaptic | 04:38 |
| Xenguy | Seriously, Mozilla Composter, huh? | 04:38 |
| u3 | yeh, does what I need | 04:39 |
| Xenguy | First, I recommend using a text editor instead of a wordprocessor... | 04:39 |
| tuxd3v | u3 is it being java based? | 04:39 |
| tuxd3v | I don't know it.. | 04:39 |
| Xenguy | But if you truly need to use a wordproccessor (WP), then just install LibreOffice... | 04:39 |
| Xenguy | If it's not installed already, by default | 04:40 |
| Xenguy | On Devuan I'm pretty sure it's installed by default | 04:40 |
| Xenguy | Check Applications > Office | 04:41 |
| u3 | i don't know what it's base but been using it since 1990's. Right now I'm filling in the boxes in a table showing how to get X thing done in the distros I use. Can't invokew from cLi nor get synaptic to reactinfrom | 04:42 |
| Xenguy | Are we still talking about WP's? | 04:43 |
| Xenguy | What is the filename of the file you are trying to open/access? | 04:43 |
| u3 | seamonkey | 04:45 |
| Xenguy | OK, that's the 'application' | 04:45 |
| Xenguy | Now, is there a filename of the file you need to open up? | 04:45 |
| Xenguy | Or, does it have an 'extension' like: .docx, or .doc, or .wpd? | 04:46 |
| u3 | just wanna lauch seamonkey for now, then set up prefs so tha compoetr is invoked each time, does it have a different name TOO? | 04:46 |
| Xenguy | I was trying to understand what file extension you were trying to work with | 04:47 |
| u3 | *.html | 04:48 |
| Xenguy | Huh, so if that is the extension of the file you want to open, any browser should work. But you (IIUC) seem to want to edit that file with some Seamonkey application, hrm | 04:49 |
| Xenguy | If yes, you'd want to configure that in whatever web browser you generally prefer | 04:50 |
| u3 | yes, it's the Seamonkey compster I use as a word processor, I want to copose, not view | 04:50 |
| Xenguy | So create that configuration in your Seamonkey web browser I think | 04:50 |
| Xenguy | Somewhere inside Seamonkey, you have to choose that option | 04:51 |
| Xenguy | Edit > Preferences | 04:51 |
| u3 | there IS no Seamonkey, that' the whole point, I wanna know how to install it in Devuan, is it called another name as some distros tend to do? | 04:52 |
| Xenguy | My goodness | 04:53 |
| Xenguy | First things first, eh what? | 04:53 |
| Xenguy | I remember checking for that myself, not so long ago... | 04:53 |
| Xenguy | As I recall, it was not packaged in Debian/Devuan | 04:54 |
| Xenguy | And when I looked at installing it, it was not so friendly to do | 04:54 |
| Xenguy | So I just paused that little experiment | 04:54 |
| Xenguy | I'm sure it can be done, but you may just have to go for it and install it from outside the Devuan repository | 04:55 |
| u3 | I've got Slackware, Leap, Artix, Tumbleweed installed too, I have all of them set up to edit on need the same 'notes' file in html format. THAT's what I wanna get done this session. | 04:55 |
| Xenguy | I would think that if you have a bunch of other distros to do what you want, then doing so on Devuan/Debian would be pretty similar | 04:56 |
| u3 | sure it would, once I installed it, i'll go see to find a source package. | 04:57 |
| Xenguy | If you say so | 04:57 |
| u3 | Last question for now, is Devuan looking to become a Rolling-Release like Artix & Tumbleweed? | 04:58 |
| Xenguy | Someone else will have to answer that question | 04:58 |
| Xenguy | Idle and see? | 04:58 |
| gnarface | i'm not an official source but i'm almost certain the answer is no | 04:59 |
| gnarface | the release cycle isn't afaik planned to change from moving along with debian | 05:00 |
| gnarface | the whole point of the distro is to leave debian as it was (before systemd) | 05:00 |
| Xenguy | That makes total sense | 05:01 |
| u3_ | connection cut out, happens all the time | 05:02 |
| Xenguy | Me too | 05:02 |
| gnarface | u3_: i'm not an official source but i'm almost certain the answer is no | 05:02 |
| gnarface | u3_: the release cycle isn't afaik planned to change from moving along with debian | 05:02 |
| Xenguy | Where were we? | 05:02 |
| Xenguy | haha | 05:02 |
| gnarface | u3_: the whole point of the distro is to leave debian as it was (before systemd) | 05:03 |
| Xenguy | Damn straight | 05:03 |
| u3_ | ok, so Devuan will go rollingrelease with Debian IF & When, I can live with that | 05:04 |
| Xenguy | Yeah, that's right | 05:04 |
| Xenguy | ^^ David, er... | 05:04 |
| Xenguy | Seinfeld | 05:04 |
| gnarface | most likely they'd do that but i don't know if it is a guarantee | 05:05 |
| Xenguy | Gibby? | 05:05 |
| gnarface | most likely they'd have to, for economic reasons | 05:05 |
| Xenguy | <== No garantees | 05:05 |
| Xenguy | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNOa5Uvjpwo | 05:13 |
| Xenguy | I'll leave you with this OT tonight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9OOFAFxGv8 | 05:22 |
| Xenguy | What a take | 05:23 |
| brocashelm | devuan going rolling release (only) would kill the server side of things. horrible idea. just change your sources.list to chimaera or ceres branches and then you won't have to worry about lts ever again | 10:04 |
| gnarface | well that's more or less my view on it, too | 10:06 |
| gnarface | i still don't really see the practical distinction between sid/ceres and a "rolling release" cycle despite repeated assurances that there is an important difference | 10:06 |
| gnarface | proponents of it claim that it gets you more stable software but frequently complain sid is still too old so... i dunno if it's really a rational goal, honestly | 10:07 |
| brocashelm | me neither. if it keeps updating over and over again, it's rolling release. besides, if manjaro having slightly older packages than arch's aur is "rolling release", then so would debian sid/devuan ceres. and, debian sid is closer to upstream than ubuntu (which is based on sid) | 10:09 |
| forester | Hullo. I compile custom kernel with localconfig. There is a problem with latest versions of different kernels (4.19 * 5.4 , 5.9). | 12:38 |
| forester | update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-5.9.0-rc8-gnu-rt10 | 12:38 |
| forester | find: ‘/var/tmp/mkinitramfs_295oAL/lib/modules/5.9.0-rc8-gnu-rt10/kernel’: No such file or directory | 12:38 |
| forester | And when I try to boot, then busybox starts and I am not able to start session and have to reboot with older kernel. | 12:39 |
| forester | Any idea, please? | 12:40 |
| hagbard_ | localconfig enables only those moudulees which are currently loaded as modules, not those that are compiled directly into the kernel. | 12:40 |
| hagbard_ | So maybe on of those is missing. | 12:41 |
| hagbard_ | Try oldconfig with the latest working version, and go from there. | 12:41 |
| forester | localmodconfig | 12:42 |
| forester | config is the same in all kernels. this problems began with latest patches | 12:42 |
| forester | the reason is int mkinitramfs | 12:43 |
| forester | this is was told in another channels and was advised to ask here. | 12:44 |
| forester | I just thought maybe someone did see this issue earlier and know what it is. | 12:45 |
| hagbard_ | Nah, not-found folders by initramfs are rather normal, that message always appears when there aren't any modules in that folder, and instead of beeing empty that folder is just not there. | 12:46 |
| hagbard_ | I'd rather look for what the non-booting kernel is complaining about. | 12:47 |
| hagbard_ | Since i compiled a lot directly into the kernel instead of to modules, i get tons of these messages, without any ill effect. | 12:48 |
| forester | thank you. | 12:50 |
| hagbard_ | Maybe there's dmesg or some log acessible by busybox. | 12:50 |
| forester | ok. Now I have to go. Thank you. | 12:51 |
| Calliostro | Gentoo user here, wanted to say hello and thanks for just existing <3 | 13:20 |
| Calliostro | ... and respect for everything else. | 13:22 |
| hagbard_ | Hi, was considering using gentoo too (coming from debian), but then chose to use devuan. | 13:31 |
| gnarface | welcome to both of you | 13:32 |
| hagbard_ | The only thing i compile myself is the kernel. | 13:33 |
| hagbard_ | ...and things where there aren't any packages for. | 13:34 |
| hagbard_ | Btw. is there any way (by using equivs or whatever) to circumvent dependencies where packages hard depend on libsystemd0 246? | 13:36 |
| hagbard_ | E.g. wireshark is uninstallable in devuan testing and unstable, since it depends on libsystemd, and can't be installed when libelogind is around. | 13:37 |
| gnarface | uh... i think there is actually, hagbard_ | 13:39 |
| gnarface | i thought someone made a slug package to replace it | 13:39 |
| gnarface | or maybe i'm thinking of something else, hmm... | 13:40 |
| gnarface | anyway, should be doable but i'm not sure if the work is actually done yet | 13:40 |
| hagbard_ | I'm sure it's doable, but not exactly how. | 13:41 |
| gnarface | do you have libelogind installed too? | 13:42 |
| gnarface | maybe that's the package actually that replaces it | 13:42 |
| hagbard_ | yes, of course | 13:42 |
| hagbard_ | yes libelogind replaces libsystemd. | 13:43 |
| Calliostro | I've just quickly checked whether wireshark is available on my Gentoo machine and it seems I can emerge it. Dunno if it pulls down anything systemd other than elogind, which is already installed. Would that help? | 13:43 |
| gnarface | wireshark won't accept libelogind instead? | 13:43 |
| hagbard_ | For 99% of packages. But there are still some packages in devuan which unfortunately directly depend on libsystemd. | 13:43 |
| hagbard_ | yes | 13:44 |
| Calliostro | version 3.2.6 here, BTW. | 13:44 |
| gnarface | hagbard_: since it's testing, maybe it's an oversight... maybe you can just actually rebuild the package with that one simple change to the dependencies | 13:44 |
| gnarface | could be a 1-line change in theory | 13:45 |
| gnarface | i don't know honestly | 13:46 |
| hagbard_ | I think I'll do that. Or, since it affects some more packages, i might edit the package of elogind, so that it pretends to provide libsystemd 246 instead of 243. | 13:46 |
| gnarface | in theory possible | 13:46 |
| xinomilo | wireshark accepts elogind, it's just that elogind is on an older version : https://github.com/elogind/elogind/issues/170 | 13:55 |
| hagbard_ | yes, and I'm trying to somehow circumvent that | 14:00 |
| hagbard_ | So, i just unpacked wireshark-common, manually edited the control file (changed depends for libsystemd from 246 to 243), repacked it, and now everything works fine. | 14:37 |
| hagbard_ | Seems like wireshark doesn't actually need libsystemd 246. | 14:38 |
| hagbard_ | So, found out that wireshark doesn't indeed need libsystemd 246, except for one single thing which is reading journals from systemd, which don't exist on devuan systems. | 14:52 |
| hagbard_ | So it might not be the worst idea to simply lower the dependency to libsystemd 243. | 14:52 |
| hagbard_ | this would fix wirehsark, and all other packages that belong to it or depend from it or tshark, like wifite. | 14:53 |
| xinomilo | there's a forum post also : https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3812 | 14:56 |
| hagbard_ | I left a reply there, in case anyone want's to try the same fix. | 15:12 |
| xinomilo | nice :) | 15:14 |
| hagbard_ | i think the same might work for other packages that directly depend on libsystemd0 v246 | 15:26 |
| DHE | sounds like some symbols are versioned. generally if the needed versions/symbols don't exist then the program just doesn't start. so if it starts then it's fine. | 15:37 |
| willow_ | Hi, install question, installing from live desktop iso in a usb, in gparted it wants a partition, the 2 devices showing are /dev/sda and /dev/mmcblk1 I am 99.9percent sure i need to go ahead and put a new partition on the (what gparted is saying unpartitioned) /dev/sda device, ie the hdd) the file system name is iso9660 which made me unsure what i am installing to (my USB and HDD are both 32GB in size so i want to tripl | 15:48 |
| willow_ | e check) any help appreciated, ie how can i double check i'm partitioning the correct device, thanks | 15:48 |
| mason | willow_: sda is the common device for a regular disk, where as mmcblk is usually an SD card. | 15:57 |
| mason | willow_: That said, I'd expect a USB device to show up as sd as well, so maybe you're not seeing your disk. | 15:58 |
| mason | willow_: Check sizing. That should be a good hint. | 15:58 |
| willow_ | hi thanks, i've just run fdisk and i think it is saying usb = /dev/sda i am v confused now | 15:58 |
| mason | willow_: What's your disk you expect to see? What kind? | 15:59 |
| willow_ | i know the usual is usb = dev/mmcblk1 and hdd = dev/sda but this is showing mmcblk1p1 / p2 / p3 / p4 ie my old hard drive | 16:00 |
| willow_ | both are 32 GB | 16:00 |
| willow_ | that is the problem i cant be super sure | 16:00 |
| mason | I wouldn't expect to see USB disks on mmcblk1 | 16:00 |
| willow_ | so mmcblk1 = hdd? | 16:00 |
| mason | willow_: That should be a microSD card or similar, usually. | 16:01 |
| xinomilo | depends on the hardware | 16:01 |
| mason | willow_: Try "gdisk -l /dev/foo" and you'll see a model identifier, which might help. | 16:01 |
| willow_ | thanks mason will try it now | 16:01 |
| mason | willow_: You can also pull some of that data out of dmesg. | 16:02 |
| willow_ | it says problem opening dev/foo for reading error is 2 | 16:02 |
| willow_ | i am on a live iso of devuan | 16:03 |
| mason | willow_: That was the mmc device that gave that back? | 16:03 |
| mason | willow_: Make sure you do this as root, also - for instance, with sudo. | 16:03 |
| willow_ | i ran it with sudo, how can i tell when i'm on live iso what is beyond that? ie am i just on the usb and that is all it sees? | 16:04 |
| willow_ | i don't know what is normal to see on the live usb device, ie should it have 4 partitions, or is that my existing HDD (<- i think this may be the case) | 16:06 |
| willow_ | it is saying the dev/sda has no partitions, is that normal for the live desktop iso? | 16:06 |
| willow_ | this might answer everything, is it normal for gparted to see the existing HDD partitions, and you have to delete them all manually then put in a new partition, is that the way the live devuan desktop iso works typically? | 16:09 |
| willow_ | in gparted the label on dev/sda says ISOIMAGE and it has no partitions, i am assuming that is the USB device with the live devuan desktop iso loaded on it. | 16:12 |
| gnarface | why not just use the netinstall image? | 16:13 |
| gnarface | not that you should have to be partitioning manually to install from the live image, but it seems like you want to, so maybe it would be better to use an installer meant for that | 16:14 |
| willow_ | first time with devuan i thought this would be the easiest way and the tablet hasn't been on the internet yet, no firewalls etc | 16:14 |
| mason | Live media lets you do fine-tuned installs. That's why I use it. | 16:14 |
| mason | Tablet... Maybe it *is* an SD card? | 16:14 |
| willow_ | its a usb | 16:14 |
| mason | The hard drive is USB? | 16:15 |
| mason | And the stick you're booting is also USB? | 16:15 |
| willow_ | the hdd is a tablet ssd so maybe it is an sd like card???? | 16:15 |
| ShorTie | emmc's show up as mmcblk too... | 16:15 |
| mason | That's what I'm thinking - tablet, maybe it's a funny storage mechanism. | 16:16 |
| gnarface | a sd card could show up as either sd* or mmcblk* depending on what controller it's plugged into | 16:16 |
| willow_ | ShorTie!!!!!!! i've been reading your raspberry pi4 stuff, i will have a question if you are here for a little while? | 16:16 |
| gnarface | mmcblk* is common for mobile devices and tablets | 16:16 |
| gnarface | (for both internal and removable storage) | 16:17 |
| willow_ | yeah i wanted to see if devuan plays nicely with a simple tablet | 16:17 |
| willow_ | also (separately) i was going to try the ShorTie rpi4 script setup later, amazing work, thanks for that ShorTie | 16:17 |
| mason | willow_: Here's a perspective for you. If you've got two storage devices, and you overwrite the wrong one, you'll know. :) | 16:18 |
| willow_ | gnarface i think you are correct, tablets will call their drives mmcblk1 etc | 16:18 |
| mason | In the one case you've overwritten the thing you wanted to overwrite. In the other, you overwrite a USB stick you can then rewrite. | 16:19 |
| willow_ | lol mason, i already have done that, it totally wipes and kills the usb stick, i thought you would be able to resurrect with gparted but no luck | 16:19 |
| ShorTie | think they deleted that one it for/on me, or the image atleast | 16:19 |
| ShorTie | newer script is on my github now, ShorTie8 | 16:20 |
| willow_ | installing over the live usb stick seems to permanently kill them, at least that seems to be what happened to me | 16:20 |
| ShorTie | your trying to install an iso on a pi ?? | 16:20 |
| willow_ | n1 ShorTie, i will be testing for sure either today or tomorrow, seems a perfect combo rpi4 + devuan, can't say how thankful i am for your work, been waiting for several years for it to happen | 16:21 |
| willow_ | i'm installing an iso on a tablet amd64 | 16:21 |
| willow_ | i was going to do this first then run your script on this device to setup the rpi image | 16:22 |
| ShorTie | oh, that is why you have a mmcblk device | 16:22 |
| ShorTie | will not work on amd64 | 16:23 |
| Calliostro | willow_: if you have access to the system logs, dmesg will tell you what devices and nodes the recently plugged key created | 16:23 |
| willow_ | ? devuan beowulf live desktop iso wont work as 64bit on a tablet? | 16:23 |
| ShorTie | must be a arm64 os | 16:23 |
| ShorTie | no, no, my script | 16:24 |
| Calliostro | (dmesg or /var/log/syslog or smth similar) | 16:24 |
| willow_ | for your rpi script yes shortie | 16:24 |
| willow_ | 2 different installs we a re talking about | 16:24 |
| willow_ | thx calliostro, i will note that down | 16:24 |
| ShorTie | lots of 64 bit images out there for the pi, grab 1 of those to run my script on | 16:25 |
| willow_ | the good news so far is that devuan beowulf seems to be working out of the box on a linx tablet, not full installed yet but the live iso worked | 16:25 |
| willow_ | thx shortie | 16:25 |
| willow_ | is there a website where the 64 bit images are listed shortie or they are scattered all over the place? | 16:29 |
| willow_ | also how soon before a self contained downloadable iso is ready for the rpi4 (so it can be installed offline) | 16:30 |
| fsmithred | iso? Doesn't rpi use disk images? | 17:37 |
| willow_ | yes you are correct, i've been installing that many things my language got lazy, thanks | 17:40 |
| ShorTie | willow_, https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=275370 | 17:45 |
| willow_ | love you shortie! | 17:45 |
| ShorTie | it's sad they deleted my image, it would have still worked | 17:47 |
| willow_ | if you are aware of the gentoo image for the rpi4 by sakaki, she seems to have spent a great deal of time tweaking things to get the best performance for the pi4, https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi-64bit | 17:47 |
| willow_ | the world seems afraid of devuan ; ) | 17:48 |
| ShorTie | yup, i have used it | 17:48 |
| ShorTie | actually, i used it to debootstrap Debian arm64 | 17:48 |
| willow_ | maybe her fixes for video acceleration etc will work too for the devuan | 17:49 |
| ShorTie | from there moved on to Devuan | 17:49 |
| willow_ | nice | 17:49 |
| ShorTie | if your after video, i would stick to 32 bit | 17:49 |
| willow_ | ok, i aim to give them a good testing | 17:50 |
| willow_ | you've helped so many people shortie, thankyou! | 17:50 |
| ShorTie | 64 bit doesn't gain any thing, plus they are still working on it i do believe | 17:51 |
| ShorTie | thus beta version | 17:51 |
| willow_ | what is the sticking point that is taking time? | 17:52 |
| willow_ | no body is into arm devices so much so it is not a priority for the devs? | 17:52 |
| ShorTie | problem with arm is each board has it's own kernel/image | 17:53 |
| willow_ | ah ok | 17:53 |
| ShorTie | not a 1 size fits all like amd64 | 17:53 |
| ShorTie | like a pi, mainstream kernel will never fully work on it | 17:54 |
| ShorTie | you have to use the foundation sources | 17:54 |
| bert_ | i m having some issues with the beowulf installer | 18:08 |
| bert_ | first, it fails to install grub, just hangs when copying files. | 18:08 |
| bert_ | for me that wasn't a big issue as i had an lmde grub installed already and just ran update grub2 on lmde to be able to boot into the new devuan install | 18:09 |
| bert_ | but the main issue i have is that it seemed not to have set up the passwords | 18:09 |
| fsmithred | bert_, which iso are you using? | 18:09 |
| bert_ | the installer asked for a new username and password twice | 18:10 |
| bert_ | and i put this info into the installer | 18:10 |
| bert_ | but when booting and loggin in, these don't work | 18:10 |
| fsmithred | check sha256sum | 18:10 |
| bert_ | 1 sec | 18:10 |
| fsmithred | also, how did you prepare installation media? burn dvd? dd to usb? | 18:11 |
| bert__ | my sha sum is | 18:19 |
| bert__ | sha256sum devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64-desktop.iso | 18:19 |
| bert__ | 4731553db1371d29956300c49ddfabb71f18ea045d1e1f55cf6efd83076c42d7 | 18:19 |
| bert__ | so i burned that iso image to DVD | 18:20 |
| bert__ | i suppose I might try to install ascii and then dist-upgrade | 18:20 |
| willow_ | bert you have to tell it to install grub | 18:22 |
| willow_ | there is a video on it on youtube, a guy installs devuan beowulf, and goes through all the options, like you he just clicked past the install grub option | 18:23 |
| bert__ | okay. the grub issue is not much of a consequence but the password / login issue kind of breaks things | 18:24 |
| bert__ | I guesss I have one theory as to what could have happened | 18:24 |
| bert__ | my passwords for PCs tend to be easy | 18:25 |
| bert__ | my first password entered was four characters long | 18:25 |
| bert__ | it may have errored out this input because it was too short (but no dialog was shown to indicate this) | 18:26 |
| bert__ | when prompted for a 2nd user / pwd I entered a 6 character password | 18:26 |
| bert__ | but it was a bit trivial. | 18:26 |
| fsmithred | bert, it will allow easy passwords - I do it all the time. | 18:27 |
| bert__ | so one possibility is that the installer program simply errored out after a maximum of two attempts, leaving the new system without any way to log into | 18:27 |
| fsmithred | should ask for root password and then create one user | 18:27 |
| bert__ | ok, thanks. in that case I'm not sure what might ve happened | 18:27 |
| fsmithred | bad download, bad burn are my first thoughts | 18:28 |
| bert__ | okay, so then it should've set up a user password and a root password | 18:28 |
| fsmithred | yeah | 18:28 |
| fsmithred | there are install guides on the main website | 18:28 |
| bert__ | i did try logging in as both root and user with all combinations of two passwords | 18:28 |
| fsmithred | https://devuan.org/os/install | 18:29 |
| bert__ | ok thanks, I ll check the iso sum again as well as the dvd burn of the iso | 18:29 |
| fsmithred | bios or uefi? | 18:29 |
| willow_ | bert i think my install just errored out too, the screen saver came on which i think just stopped the install, i could be wrong | 18:29 |
| willow_ | bert__: this guy goes through the install, it is simple to miss the grub option, he also did short passwords no problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqrIgyZhtUk | 18:31 |
| bert__ | okay, thanks very much guys. I'll give it another try and check my DVD | 18:32 |
| tuxd3v | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkYAMjhtqkA | 20:13 |
| hagbard_ | Just noticed that xfce supports svg as background image, and immediately updates it, if the file changes. And since svg is a text format, it's easy to modify it by a script. | 20:19 |
| Obliterous | I'm having a weird problem with a ne beowulf install | 20:32 |
| Obliterous | *new | 20:32 |
| Obliterous | that MAY have just fixed itself... | 20:33 |
| Obliterous | Ughhh. | 20:34 |
| Obliterous | video driver hell | 20:34 |
| Obliterous | display was stuck in 700x400 | 20:34 |
| willow_ | hi, with boothole grub and uefi vulnerability what is the best way to deal with this, i see the desktop iso has grub-pc_2.02+dfsg1-20_amd64.deb loaded on it, i was looking down this list of /debian/pool/main/g/grub2 packages and wondering if a newer package is worth while or not at http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/grub2/?C=M;O=D | 23:35 |
| willow_ | would the consensus be that UEFI will take longer to patch and the grub2 updates are adequate as they stand? | 23:37 |
| willow_ | for anyone interested... | 23:39 |
| willow_ | https://www.debian.org/security/2020-GRUB-UEFI-SecureBoot/#grub_updates | 23:39 |
| mason | willow_: It's a flaw in grub, so there's nothing to do to fix UEFI. | 23:40 |
| willow_ | thx mason i need to reread everything then | 23:55 |
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