| mh4debuan | Hello | 01:05 |
|---|---|---|
| mh4debuan | Having a problem that a file won't launch with valid permission from within it's direcotyr | 01:07 |
| mh4debuan | user@host:~/Desktop/platform-tools$ ls | 01:07 |
| mh4debuan | adb etc1tool make_f2fs NOTICE.txt systrace | 01:07 |
| mh4debuan | api fastboot make_f2fs_casefold sload_f2fs | 01:07 |
| mh4debuan | dmtracedump hprof-conv mke2fs source.properties | 01:07 |
| mh4debuan | e2fsdroid lib64 mke2fs.conf sqlite3 | 01:07 |
| mh4debuan | user@host:~/Desktop/platform-tools$ adb | 01:07 |
| mh4debuan | bash: adb: command not found | 01:07 |
| hagbard_ | ./adb | 01:08 |
| mh4debuan | lol hehe | 01:08 |
| Criggie | ls -la adb | 01:09 |
| Criggie | file adb | 01:09 |
| Criggie | those might tell you a bit more too. | 01:09 |
| montecarlo | Is this a place where you can ask for help? | 12:15 |
| gnarface | montecarlo: yes | 12:18 |
| gnarface | montecarlo: for best results, don't ask for permission, just ask your question and be patient | 12:19 |
| montecarlo | I'm trying to get present-windows to have a close window button. It recently got added back in after Martin Flรถser had a 7 year tantrum in bug https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321190#c4 | 12:21 |
| montecarlo | Is there a way to update KDE to the latest version? | 12:21 |
| gnarface | you're on beowulf? | 12:24 |
| gnarface | i would check beowulf-backports | 12:24 |
| montecarlo | yeah I'm on beowulf. How do I check beowulf-backports | 12:25 |
| gnarface | hmm, you can check on pkginfo.devuan.org | 12:27 |
| gnarface | but they changed it recently and i'm not sure it's working quite right yet | 12:27 |
| gnarface | so it might be easier to add beowulf-backports to your apt sources and search with "apt-cache -t beowulf-backports search ^kde" | 12:28 |
| gnarface | hopefully it's in beowulf-backports | 12:29 |
| gnarface | there's other ways to get a newer version but not without more effort and/or risk | 12:29 |
| montecarlo | I'll give it a go and come back thanks | 12:30 |
| gnarface | no problem, good luck | 12:31 |
| gnarface | (the more effort way is to compile your own version from source, and the more risk way is to just install an unsupported version from testing or unstable or some 3rd party repo) | 12:31 |
| gnarface | (... and i would not recommend the latter) | 12:32 |
| Guest17 | Hello, I'm considering switching from debian to devuan. Is there any major differences between bullseye and chimaera? | 15:58 |
| Guest17 | *Are there any major differences | 15:59 |
| Guest17 | aside from no systemd | 16:00 |
| Guest17 | i'm mainly thinking in terms of maintaining the system | 16:00 |
| gnarface | every effort has been made not to change anything else | 16:01 |
| n4dir | Maintaining is pretty much the same | 16:01 |
| Guest17 | ah ok | 16:02 |
| gnarface | if you never ran debian before systemd there might be some learning curve | 16:02 |
| gnarface | but the experience should be basically the same as wheezy | 16:02 |
| Guest17 | i've only been using linux for about a year, but i haven't used systemd for much | 16:03 |
| Guest17 | anyways that's good | 16:03 |
| n4dir | there ain't that much to know about sysv, as long you don't write init scripts or such. sysv-rc-conf is a program which can be useful, but usually isn't, i guess | 16:04 |
| Guest17 | alright | 16:04 |
| Guest17 | if i ever need to write init scripts i guess i'll look that up | 16:04 |
| n4dir | so: /etc/init.d/name_of_service start or stop, and to disable or enable i use sysv-rc-conf, and that is about all i know about sysv | 16:04 |
| Guest17 | ah | 16:05 |
| Guest17 | have you used devuan with openRC? i remember looking at the installer screenshots and that was listed as an option | 16:05 |
| gnarface | some people do use openrc | 16:05 |
| n4dir | yes, i did for a while, as i didn't read closely during installation. Per accident. No complaints from me (why not anymore? laptop was stolen ...) | 16:05 |
| gnarface | it's a popular choice, though the debian openrc packages are not a popular configuration for openrc amongst openrc advocates | 16:05 |
| Guest17 | hm | 16:06 |
| gnarface | i thinik there's unofficial replacements that are more like the gentoo setup but the actual differences are relatively minor | 16:06 |
| Guest17 | alright i guess that's something to look at in the future | 16:07 |
| gnarface | there were some advocates for s3 as well | 16:07 |
| n4dir | and fsmithred just told me about runit. But i forgot the details (besides he seems to say it works well) | 16:08 |
| gnarface | it's all worth researching, but if you're still in your first year it might not be the first thing you want to be messing with, since it's messing with stuff that can easily wreck your install if you make a mistake | 16:08 |
| djph | gnarface: it's why we have VMs :D | 16:09 |
| gnarface | that's a good point | 16:09 |
| n4dir | Way before systemd, when Ubuntu had the idea of another init system, checking a few out had a very short hype. I pretty quickly gave up on it, as i saw no gain for me (for me, in general it might be fun) | 16:10 |
| gnarface | upstart? yea, was not feature complete | 16:11 |
| gnarface | what a fiasco | 16:11 |
| djph | par for course with canonical | 16:11 |
| n4dir | ah, yeah, i forgot. upstart. But it was only the thing which started the hype (how to change init systems in debian). Yup, back then it was not much of a problem, iirc | 16:11 |
| gnarface | anyway, a lot of people come into it thinking they've gotta get rid of sysvinit without knowing why though, and the truth is there's very little wrong with it and it's heavily transparent | 16:11 |
| Guest17 | yeah | 16:12 |
| Guest17 | I only used hostnamectl to check my os name or the type of container i think | 16:13 |
| n4dir | I didn't use sysv for ~5 years, and starting to use it again was right away. I can't say that of any other init system. | 16:13 |
| n4dir | Sorry, i have two entries in sources.list for security.debian buster. I think they don't belong there, or am i wrong? | 16:46 |
| n4dir | well, one really, the other is deb-src | 16:47 |
| fsmithred | you don't need debian repos in sources.list | 16:47 |
| fsmithred | shouldn't even need it for deb-src | 16:47 |
| fsmithred | we merge all of it (except experimental) | 16:47 |
| n4dir | shit knows how they got there. Probably via librazik | 16:48 |
| n4dir | and yes, commenting deb-src lines is pretty much the first thing i do after installing | 16:48 |
| fsmithred | I think I commented them in the live-isos | 16:48 |
| fsmithred | or maybe that's in the refracta isos | 16:49 |
| n4dir | well, once at it, what are the entries for backports? | 16:49 |
| fsmithred | same as regular but use beowulf-backports instead of beowulf | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | and those are /merged also | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | only ones that are /devuan are experimental and beowulf-proposed-updates | 16:50 |
| n4dir | deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports main contrib non-free | 16:51 |
| fsmithred | actually you can use /merged on beowulf-proposed-updates and you'll get newer stuff from debian, too. Not sure if you want that. | 16:51 |
| n4dir | ? | 16:51 |
| fsmithred | I did it by accident. Didn't notice anything bad. | 16:51 |
| fsmithred | *-proposed-updates is for new stuff that will eventually get into the main stable repo | 16:52 |
| fsmithred | yes, your line is correct | 16:52 |
| n4dir | having run sid for the most part, that is pretty confusing to me. no kidding | 16:52 |
| fsmithred | yeah, one line makes it easy | 16:52 |
| n4dir | the one big argument for sid :-) | 16:52 |
| fsmithred | it's confusing to me, too | 16:53 |
| fsmithred | because there are some others we haven't mentioned | 16:53 |
| n4dir | And it is not like you would need to look at it 3 times a week. | 16:53 |
| fsmithred | and if I remember correctly, they aren't all the same names for ascii and beowulf | 16:53 |
| fsmithred | some of us do look at it three times a week :( | 16:53 |
| n4dir | thanks for the help. I think it is sorted now. Let me pastebinit | 16:54 |
| fsmithred | ok | 16:54 |
| n4dir | http://paste.debian.net/1178744/ | 16:54 |
| fsmithred | you gonna make any live isos? | 16:54 |
| n4dir | i didn't think of that yet. | 16:55 |
| n4dir | right now i copy the Music folder in place | 16:55 |
| n4dir | you use vim? | 16:55 |
| fsmithred | rarely use vim. Usually nano. | 16:55 |
| fsmithred | sources.list looks good | 16:55 |
| fsmithred | I would pin backports to be safe. Shouldn't need to, but I'm paranoid. | 16:56 |
| n4dir | yeah, i thought so, done by installer besides the added debian entry (probably librazik, as said) | 16:56 |
| n4dir | I would be paranoid too, but with libraziks repos added i stand on a shaky ground anyway | 16:57 |
| fsmithred | right now, beowulf-proposed-updates has new eudev which you will want if making a live-iso and also has new refractasnapshot/installer | 16:57 |
| n4dir | didn't run in problems so far, but am not too sure, as in: prepared for trouble | 16:57 |
| fsmithred | you've got it pinned, so you should be safe if you are careful | 16:58 |
| n4dir | guess so, but audio itself is already very confusing to me. | 16:59 |
| n4dir | So if something breaks, i would not know why or what or when | 16:59 |
| n4dir | jack is up and runnning, which was quite a pain. | 16:59 |
| n4dir | due to me, the thing itself was rather easy. | 16:59 |
| n4dir | i really like cadence instead of qjackctl | 17:00 |
| n4dir | it is slightly more easy for me. | 17:01 |
| fsmithred | in case you ever need to roll back to older versions... | 17:01 |
| fsmithred | echo 'Binary::apt::APT::KeepDownloaded-Packages "true";' > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01keep-debs | 17:01 |
| fsmithred | that way it will keep the packages when you upgrade. (see /var/cache/apt/archives/) | 17:02 |
| n4dir | thanks. I think i will do it the adventurous (huh?) way though | 17:03 |
| fsmithred | it looks wrong, but I can't think of a better way to spell it. | 17:04 |
| fsmithred | it must be right | 17:04 |
| fsmithred | that apt line makes it do the old behavior. It no longer keeps the packages when you do upgrades. | 17:05 |
| n4dir | oh. I didn't know that. But i never ever used that. | 17:05 |
| fsmithred | ah, ok | 17:06 |
| n4dir | Well: i don't stick much to anything. If it doesn't work, seldom, i just switch to another app, if possible. Else give up on it altogether. ha | 17:06 |
| n4dir | you know, i really don't do much on the PC. | 17:06 |
| n4dir | looks like i switched back to xfce though. But if that would ever "break", not much of a problem | 17:09 |
| n4dir | How to exclude swap from an rsync complete system copy? | 17:11 |
| r3boot | --exclude /path/to/swapfile --exclude /dev | 17:12 |
| n4dir | or is that only needed for a swapfile? | 17:12 |
| n4dir | r3boot: thanks. | 17:13 |
| r3boot | If you do a full system copy, be sure to exclude /dev, /sys, /proc, /run, /tmp, /var/tmp, /var/run | 17:13 |
| r3boot | (from the top of my head) | 17:13 |
| n4dir | yeah, all those i have, copied from arch wiki, but last time it was going on forever with swap, there being a swapfile, iirc | 17:14 |
| r3boot | Ahja | 17:14 |
| n4dir | takes forever anyway, so not the end of the world | 17:14 |
| unixbsd | hello, where can I find : /usr/lib/cups/filter/rastertobrlaser (deb)? | 18:28 |
| amesser | printer-driver-brlaser | 18:36 |
| mh4debuan | Hello! Its unlikely but any idea if there is a Python issue in Devuan? I thought I might submit a request for help here, since I had to open an issue on Mossman's Github for the python script HeatMap.py on HackRF_Sweep CSV returning an Index Error.... | 18:45 |
| mh4debuan | https://github.com/mossmann/hackrf/issues/814 | 18:45 |
| hagbard_ | It's nothing devuan specific. | 18:50 |
| amesser | This is no python issue | 18:51 |
| hagbard_ | A string with a decimal point simply isn't an integer. | 18:51 |
| amesser | yepp | 18:51 |
| amesser | either the heatmap script is wrong or hackrf_sweep should output integers. | 18:52 |
| hagbard_ | try int(float('-60.5')) or something to that effect. | 18:52 |
| unixbsd | Ah, I need to get installed Bullseye. https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/printer-driver-brlaser | 18:53 |
| unixbsd | Does devuan have a similar repos for bullseye without systemd? | 18:53 |
| amesser | ? | 18:54 |
| unixbsd | i.e. bullseye equivalent (devuan linux). | 18:54 |
| amesser | just run "apt install printer-driver-brlaser" | 18:54 |
| unixbsd | I am still at ascii, time to upgrad | 18:54 |
| amesser | its already in beowulf | 18:55 |
| unixbsd | beowulf == bullseye? | 18:55 |
| amesser | beowulf = buster = current stable | 18:56 |
| unixbsd | I need higher level, up to brlaser (6-1). is there a SID for devuan? | 18:56 |
| mh4debuan | @hagbard, TY I appreciate the thoughts, and was talking about that with a friend. The thing is that I'm using MossMan's Heapmap.py -> And Mossman's HackRF_Sweep CSV -> How did this occur that 1,000 lines of code needs to get cleaned of int(decimal); | 18:56 |
| amesser | yes, its called "ceres" | 18:57 |
| unixbsd | ah ok, let's try then ceres with debootstrap to see if https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/printer-driver-brlaser (6-1) is in it... thank you | 18:57 |
| amesser | I assume printer-driver-brlaser is taken unchanged from debian | 18:57 |
| mh4debuan | @Hagbard, My fear is that I ran HackRF_Sweep to broad from 1 MHz to 7.25GHz (the greatest strength of the HarckRF!!!) | 18:58 |
| amesser | you can simply download the the .deb from debian and try to install it | 18:58 |
| amesser | (dpkg --install ...deb) | 18:58 |
| unixbsd | I did surgery with taking from sid into ascii. it may work but it will take ages. | 18:58 |
| amesser | But I'm afraid it will have dependencies not solvable with ascii | 18:58 |
| unixbsd | I prefer to debootstrap higher release codename, faster. | 18:58 |
| amesser | one thing you can try to get the source and build the package from source. | 18:59 |
| unixbsd | it will take ages to do. | 18:59 |
| amesser | ? | 18:59 |
| amesser | you mean minutes :-) | 19:00 |
| unixbsd | I meant a long time to compile. | 19:01 |
| amesser | git clone https://salsa.debian.org/printing-team/brlaser.git; cd brlaser; git checkout debian/6-1; debuild -b | 19:01 |
| amesser | its no more than 5 source files. | 19:03 |
| amesser | will compile within seconds.. | 19:03 |
| hagbard_ | mh4debuan: I do not know those scripts. The heatmap script seems to simply not expect decimals in the input csv. Ask the author about it, or make the changes (seemingly simple) by yourself. | 19:05 |
| unixbsd | Installing devscripts. man, this is more bloat to make the bloat compilable. what a junk really the c language | 19:16 |
| unixbsd | On the other notebook, debootstrap ceres. | 19:16 |
| amesser | hehe :-) | 19:32 |
| DHE | beowulf = debian stable, right? (99% sure that's right, but gotta be 100% sure) | 19:32 |
| amesser | You know you're talking to a c/c++ developer? ;-) | 19:33 |
| amesser | @DHE: yes | 19:33 |
| amesser | https://www.devuan.org/os/releases | 19:33 |
| nemo | amesser: heh. I've done my time in C/C++ and I agree w/ unixbsd ๐ | 19:36 |
| nemo | esp C++ โบ | 19:36 |
| nemo | that said, while rust offers a lot of things, cutting down on build bloat is not one of them ๐ | 19:36 |
| amesser | In my oppinion, C/C++ build is not "bloated". A simple shell script would be enough for simple projects, you don't even have to use "make". Of course, a compiler is needed. | 19:40 |
| amesser | I don't know much about rust, maybe I should but my employer even dislikes C++, so we're still using C99. | 19:42 |
| nemo | amesser: I'm a bit biased from building hedgewars where building the engine takes a few seconds, but building the C++ frontend takes like 10 minutes | 19:42 |
| nemo | amesser: and considerably more memory | 19:43 |
| nemo | (engine is pascal) | 19:43 |
| nemo | well really essentially instantaneous for a clean build of the engine | 19:43 |
| amesser | Doing bare metal (well, own OS) embedded stuff mostly. I heard rust should fit embedded projects, but I hate Mozilla :-) | 19:43 |
| nemo | and yeah, often times there are quite a lot of dependencies to a C++ project. | 19:43 |
| nemo | amesser: well fortunately for you, rust is no longer a mozilla project | 19:43 |
| nemo | amesser: so you can use it with the blessing of google or whatever ๐ | 19:44 |
| amesser | lol | 19:44 |
| nemo | but yes, there's a fair amount of work on embedded these days | 19:44 |
| amesser | Some of our developers proposed to use ADA. I think it would be an alternative. | 19:45 |
| nemo | ada does have its fan base | 19:45 |
| nemo | maybe a bit less support these days unfortunately | 19:45 |
| amesser | yepp, For higher level apps on servers, workstations.. I currently prefer python. | 19:46 |
| nemo | ah. we are definitely of different minds there. I dislike intensely the use of significant whitespace, the single threaded nature, and the dubious unicode decisions in python3 | 19:47 |
| nemo | but I appreciate it making decent glue code for simple apps | 19:47 |
| amesser | Some time ago I had to use Fortran 95. Fortran comes with some lovely surprises: Gues what happens on "printf" with more than 132 output chars - right, your program crashes :-D | 19:49 |
| nemo | heh | 19:49 |
| amesser | But the Supercomputers supplier provided highly optimizing compilers only for Fortran, so we had to use it to squezzy out the max of the machine | 19:50 |
| nemo | amesser: https://www.rust-lang.org/what/embedded FWIW if interested | 19:50 |
| unixbsd | assembler is the right return ;) lower rather than higher. | 19:53 |
| nemo | unixbsd: heh. I've written enough assembly to appreciate the benefits of higher level languages | 19:57 |
| nemo | occasionally it is beneficial to hand write small pieces | 19:57 |
| nemo | but would not want to do more than that | 19:57 |
| nemo | have better things to do with my time. like goofing off on IRC ๐ | 19:57 |
| unixbsd | ceres after debootstrap has a broken dep with clang. | 20:07 |
| rwp | unixbsd, Useful package content search online: https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages | 20:13 |
| rwp | unixbsd, Where at the bottom this shortcut is documented: https://packages.debian.org/file:/usr/lib/cups/filter/rastertobrlaser | 20:13 |
| rwp | I use it a lot when I don't have apt-file database up to date locally. | 20:13 |
| john009 | Trying to install Devuan with devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_i386-netinstall.iso, but will not connect to a recognised (& working) wifi. | 20:14 |
| john009 | Any suggestions gratefully received. | 20:14 |
| unixbsd | PKG='wpasupplicant,netbase,ssh,gcc,less,debootstrap,login,passwd' ; debootstrap --no-check-gpg --include=$PKG beowulf . http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged | 20:15 |
| rwp | john009, Does your WiFi hardware require a driver blob to work that is not included in the free(dom) distribution? | 20:15 |
| rwp | Maybe I should just ask, What is your WiFi device that you are trying to use? | 20:16 |
| john009 | The installation process asks for 'ipw2200-bss.fw' that I have loaded onto a 2nd USB stick. The process seems to find it, as it carries on. | 20:17 |
| rwp | Sounds good and encouraging. | 20:18 |
| rwp | unixbsd, In the above you set PKG=value then have a ; then a debootstrap command. Unless you are exporting that the value will not be seen by debootstrap. | 20:19 |
| rwp | unixbsd, Instead I think you need to remove the ; so that it is see on the same command line. | 20:19 |
| rwp | You can test this by using 'printenv PKG' as the command and see what happens. | 20:19 |
| unixbsd | so put it instead of $PKG. | 20:19 |
| nemo | unixbsd: any particular reason you are using ceres instead of chimaera? | 20:20 |
| unixbsd | no single, I can try chimaera. I need just 6-1 brlaser - like bullseye, I just try out with debootstrap. | 20:21 |
| nemo | unixbsd: just checking. I seem to remember fsmithred teling me to use chimaera and not ceres. | 20:22 |
| nemo | which is the extent of my knowledge ๐ | 20:22 |
| unixbsd | let's go for it then ok | 20:23 |
| nemo | I mean, besides the obvious chimera being stable beta and ceres being unstable, it was like, ceres was really unstable or something | 20:23 |
| nemo | WIP | 20:23 |
| rwp | amesser, Fortran is a completely static language, no dynamic memory, and therefore enables being highly optimized. Good for supercomputers. | 20:23 |
| unixbsd | I love gfortran for maths | 20:24 |
| rwp | chimaera == Testing, ceres == Unstable, and therefore Testing is sometimes less broken than the daily build churn in Unstable. | 20:24 |
| nemo | rwp: is chimaera far from stable at this point? | 20:25 |
| nemo | or is it more a Debian upstream call? | 20:25 |
| rwp | The theory goes that new packages enter Unstable, people use them, if there is a bug then it gets reported while the package it only in Unstable. | 20:25 |
| rwp | If the package sits in Unstable for 10 days and no one has reported a bug against it then it automatically transitions into Testing. | 20:25 |
| john009 | rwp Do you mean the router? TP-LINK TL-WR841N | 20:25 |
| nemo | oh wow. debian wiki says we're a year away from bulleye freeze | 20:26 |
| rwp | When that works then that is wonderful. However often not enough people are using every existing package in Unstable and then a bug is introduced. | 20:26 |
| rwp | Then 12 days later the bug is reported. But by then it is already in Testing/Chimaera and then it is broken in both. | 20:26 |
| nemo | rwp: I'd help you guys dogfood but unfortunately it's hard to come up with a machine I both use and am ok with it randomly breaking โน | 20:26 |
| rwp | nemo, And so the names Unstable, Testing, Stable are referring mostly to the flow of packages through the block diagram of the OS release process. | 20:27 |
| nemo | rwp: but there's typically more churn on ceres right | 20:27 |
| rwp | Yes. ceres is the daily build. Everything enters there first. So that is the daily bleeding edge. | 20:28 |
| nemo | aight. so unixbsd probably should not be trying it unless he really means it โบ | 20:28 |
| nemo | rwp: the one thing I've often wished debian had, was different rules for stable depending on the "criticalness" of the project - for example an issue we've had for years is debian users stuck on old versions of hedgewars and unable to play with others online | 20:29 |
| nemo | Spring RTS has had similar issues. And probably other games too | 20:29 |
| rwp | It reads to me that unixbsd is trying to debootstrap a chroot? In order to extract a single print driver file? | 20:29 |
| nemo | yet games typically are unimportant to the rest of the system | 20:29 |
| nemo | rwp: whaaaaat? | 20:29 |
| nemo | unixbsd: really? | 20:29 |
| nemo | unixbsd: have you tried just unpacking the .deb first to get your file? โบ | 20:30 |
| rwp | unixbsd, Are you using debootstrap to install on a bare metal system? Or using debootstrap to build up a chroot to extract your driver file? | 20:30 |
| nemo | heck. might be you could just repackage it for beowulf/chimera | 20:30 |
| rwp | It will usually need to be recompiled, due to the difference in libc that the Unstable one was compiled against. | 20:32 |
| rwp | john009, How are things going for you? | 20:32 |
| nemo | rwp: well... if it is just a ppd file.. | 20:32 |
| nemo | but unfamiliar with their printer | 20:32 |
| rwp | nemo, That package looks to be compiled to me so more than just a ppd file. https://packages.debian.org/buster/printer-driver-brlaser | 20:33 |
| nemo | oh! brother laser! | 20:34 |
| nemo | if his is like mine, it doesn't require any special driver โบ | 20:34 |
| nemo | let me see what I have my TN-630 set to. | 20:34 |
| nemo | I think I just grabbed something generic | 20:34 |
| rwp | For a short time I tried to help someone get the Brother driver going on their system. But they realized that they had bought a problem. So returned it. | 20:35 |
| john009 | rwp: without connection to the internet via wifi I'm going nowhere! | 20:35 |
| rwp | The Brother driver was a 32-bit only binary executable from Ubuntu 14.04 without source so they would have needed a 32-bit system (they had 64-bits installed). | 20:36 |
| unixbsd | /usr/share/cups/drv/brlaser.drv and /usr/lib/cups/filter/* are way more advanced. | 20:36 |
| rwp | john009, You won't want to hear there but I have never installed over WiFi. I have always plugged in a wire, done the install, then after the install gotten the WiFi going. | 20:36 |
| nemo | rwp: I'm a big fan of brother laser - have used 'em for past... 15 years or so. | 20:36 |
| nemo | speedy, reliable, can just sit there for months and then fire up np which my old inkjet never could do | 20:36 |
| rwp | john009, I am told that installation over WiFi works these days. But just the same I have never tried it. | 20:37 |
| nemo | and cheap to purchase and replace toner | 20:37 |
| nemo | rwp: yeah, I've never installed a custom brother driver | 20:37 |
| rwp | Anyone here know the installation over WiFi routine and can help john009 through the WiFi connection step? | 20:37 |
| nemo | on any linux machine | 20:37 |
| nemo | I think I just use generic postscript or something. lemme see.. | 20:37 |
| unixbsd | he needs just to give the uname -a and dongle or type of wireless device | 20:38 |
| rwp | nemo, The Brother problem I ran into was not postscript related but USB related. It needed the driver to talk to the USB printer. | 20:38 |
| rwp | unixbsd, john009 said it was using the ipw2200-bss.fw which he thinks he supplied okay. So probably an Intel WiFi device. Which I am also using myself on my machine right now to type this. | 20:39 |
| rwp | nemo, I was pretty sure that with some effort I could have built up a 32-bit chroot and made the old Ubuntu 14.04 32-bit binary only driver work. But my friend realized that they did not want that problem for them long term and so returned it. | 20:40 |
| rwp | nemo, Then at my insistence when they bought another one we ensured that it was a network printer and could use the ipp:// protocol. That worked no problem. | 20:41 |
| nemo | rwp: ah. hm... that could be. I used to connect my printer over serial, but network was more convenient so I ditched that with last model | 20:41 |
| nemo | rwp: last time I connected one it was to an ubuntu 14.04 though, so who knows โบ | 20:42 |
| nemo | I may well have used their driver then | 20:42 |
| nemo | hm. think I was on 64 bit though.. | 20:42 |
| rwp | Network printers use standardized protocols and mostly Just Work so definitely better than needing a proprietary USB driver. | 20:42 |
| nemo | yeah | 20:43 |
| nemo | unixbsd: you connecting over network? | 20:43 |
| rwp | john009, Any chance you could plug in a wire long enough to do the installation? Then after the installation turn on WiFi? Since you are having problems installing over WiFi? | 20:43 |
| nemo | rwp: there was this "all in one" at the office that was awful and crazy finicky. had to use a silly combination of protocols on linux, and even on windows getting it to work was insane. | 20:43 |
| unixbsd | i use wireless and LAN. | 20:43 |
| nemo | like... people coming to me to ask me to print things 'cause they couldn't get it working on windows, which is pretty funny as a linux user | 20:44 |
| unixbsd | you could download the ISO file and mount it | 20:44 |
| nemo | unixbsd: so yeah you probably don't actually need any fancy drivers with a brother printer | 20:44 |
| unixbsd | the command is then just: export PKG='wpasupplicant,netbase,ssh,login,passwd,less,debootstrap,gcc,make' ; debootstrap --no-check-gpg --include=$PKG beowulf . file:///media/cdrom | 20:44 |
| nemo | unixbsd: I think I usually just pick a close-ish brother model from system-config-printer or a generic postscript | 20:45 |
| unixbsd | Just get the DVD and mount it, use debootstrap and you have it installed. | 20:45 |
| john009 | rwp: Only have a short (ethernet) lead, so I'll try that tomorrow. i'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for your help so far. | 20:45 |
| nemo | lemme try that with my TN-630 over here and see which works best | 20:45 |
| rwp | john009, Come back here in an hour and ask again. The mix of people in the channel changes all the time. One of the others may have experience installing over WiFi and can help. | 20:46 |
| nemo | oh... it is already setup on this machine. looks like I used ipp (probably from a network scan) and it is setup as "Brother HL L2360D series' | 20:46 |
| rwp | john009, I am told it can work. Sorry I have no help because I haven't ever done that part myself. | 20:46 |
| unixbsd | the cups drivers of 6-1 of ubuntu groovy is cutting edge. it would install most brother printers. It looks pretty ok today, long time far from the 1990s, early 2000 to get printer to work. | 20:46 |
| nemo | john009: any chance your laptop has an ethernet jack? could maybe worry about wifi after instlal | 20:47 |
| nemo | *install | 20:47 |
| nemo | john009: another thought might be getting it working on a live image then running the installer from there | 20:47 |
| nemo | unixbsd: yeah, dunno, just noting that brother is not finicky AFAIK so you probably don't need anything special unless you really want to | 20:47 |
| nemo | unixbsd: I've "set up" ours at home mostly by clicking around in menus on devuan/gentoo machines ๐ | 20:48 |
| john009 | nemo: Thanks for your suggestions. I'll try tomorrow. | 20:50 |
| rwp | nemo, john009 said he only has a short ethernet cable today making using the wire today difficult. | 20:50 |
| unixbsd | yeah ipp is best choice indeed. I use also ipp | 20:50 |
| rwp | I am a craphound and so I could reach over and pull out a 50-foot ethernet cable if I needed one in a hurry. It's the only way. | 20:50 |
| nemo | rwp: yeah. although frankly I'd just use the short cable plugged into the ISP's equipment/router/whatev | 20:51 |
| nemo | it's probably a laptop and easy to carry around already | 20:51 |
| rwp | The other advantage of ipp and network printers is that if it is a scanner then it can scan and send the result back over the network too. That otherwise is more complicated using saned and so forth. | 20:51 |
| nemo | less trouble than mucking about with proprietary firmware in an installer | 20:51 |
| nemo | rwp: I've had great results with my scanner in chimera. in beowulf I had to compile a driver myself | 20:52 |
| nemo | and muck about with LD_LIBRARY_PATH to get simple scan to work | 20:52 |
| nemo | good thing too, since it is getting a lot of use due to all the remote schooling this year | 20:52 |
| rwp | nemo, We don't know where the AP & Router is located. Might be installed in a very inconvenient location that john009 was simply using over WiFi. Could be anything. | 20:52 |
| nemo | mm | 20:52 |
| nemo | I suppose... hard to imagine, but I guess... I mean. even if they put it in a closet I'd still prefer that to mucking about w/ blobs in an installer ๐ | 20:53 |
| nemo | for some reason my wifi always works great once the install is complete โบ | 20:54 |
| rwp | It's so much easier for me here where *I* am the-powers-that-be myself and I am not a student somewhere using a school resource or other some such difficult to use situation. | 20:54 |
| nemo | even when I was a student dorms had network jacks. but maybe that's an anachronism | 20:55 |
| nemo | "hey carl, do you mind if I plug my laptop into yours to do an install?" โบ | 20:55 |
| unixbsd | When on the move, I usually grab with my ebook reader the DVD of devuan (e.g. ascii) on a wireless, free wifi. Then, wihtout net, I can install it. | 20:56 |
| nemo | (carl is his dorm mate ๐ ) | 20:56 |
| rwp | It's getting to the point where RJ-45 sockets are hard to find. New laptops do not come with them anymore. | 20:56 |
| nemo | well. sounds like his does fortunately | 20:56 |
| nemo | you can also get 'em as usb super cheap which seems to work better in linux installers in my experience | 20:56 |
| nemo | oh well. whatev. he left โบ | 20:56 |
| rwp | Does his buddy Carl though? I have a bag-of-magic-dongles in my backpack that I keep random adaptors like USB-C to Ethernet just for things like that. | 20:57 |
| rwp | But for most people doing that on the fly is an advanced class and not a good way to do something if you are just starting out and trying to figure things out. | 20:58 |
| rwp | Anyway... lunch is calling here. bbiab | 20:58 |
| unixbsd | chimaera works but it looks out of much net and video drivers. | 21:07 |
| fsmithred | what do you mean? | 21:21 |
| fsmithred | unixbsd, ^^^ | 21:22 |
| fsmithred | brb, getting coffee | 21:22 |
| unixbsd | I upgraded the 4.9 ascii to 5.8 bullseye, in order to check the printing. Next chimaera with some same testing. | 21:27 |
| fsmithred | chimaera=bullseye | 21:27 |
| unixbsd | strange, for some reasons, the bullseye does not detect my wireless with kernel 5.8. | 21:30 |
| fsmithred | are you mixing debian and devuan repos? | 21:33 |
| unixbsd | usually not, for the moment just debian. I dont like those renaming wireless and all net layer. | 21:35 |
| fsmithred | so you have udev instead of eudev right now? | 21:36 |
| fsmithred | if you want the new net names with eudev, boot with net.ifnames=1 | 21:36 |
| unixbsd | oh, man they changed the whole net layer again. | 21:36 |
| fsmithred | if you want to try an iso with 5.9 kernel and wireless firmware installed, I uploaded one today | 21:37 |
| fsmithred | live iso, I mean | 21:37 |
| unixbsd | thank you | 21:39 |
| fsmithred | https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta-test-oblx_5.9bpo_openrc-20201229_0205.iso | 21:40 |
| unixbsd | I need to check this printer on bullseye to look if it work (likely), first. It is installing a barebone wm and the cups. | 21:40 |
| unixbsd | *s | 21:40 |
| fsmithred | that iso does not have cups | 21:41 |
| fsmithred | it's pretty minimal. openbox, lxpanel, some file manager and graphical text editor. Not much else. | 21:41 |
| n4dir | apt-cache search somefilemanager | 21:41 |
| fsmithred | lol, probably spacefm | 21:42 |
| unixbsd | I use my own evilwm ;) I use almost all from source. | 21:42 |
| n4dir | never give up on the standards | 21:42 |
| unixbsd | My main OS is NetBSD and OpenBSD. So, I try to have things that compile with X11R7 or X11R6. | 21:43 |
| fsmithred | oh, I didn't know we were up to X11R7 | 21:43 |
| unixbsd | On NetBSD we are with 9.x | 21:43 |
| fsmithred | I haven't seen that nomenclature in a decade | 21:44 |
| unixbsd | openbsd is still X11R6... well, it's ok. | 21:44 |
| unixbsd | let's move to wayland ;) (bad joke). | 21:44 |
| fsmithred | can I use x11vnc with wayland? | 21:56 |
| nemo | ssh -YC ... xrdp... | 21:58 |
| n4dir | "Wayland's great for a default user experience, but for VNC (As well as other screen sharing apps) it is an absolute trainwreck" says the web, rather old | 21:58 |
| nemo | last I checked wayland still has no good remote solution, it appears to not even be on their radar | 21:58 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I figured the answer is still no, but someday it should be yes. | 21:59 |
| nemo | the 2 approaches are transferring entire bitmaps of the app, or synchronising memory state which requires identical libs on both sides | 21:59 |
| nemo | neither of which are reasonable for my typical use cases | 21:59 |
| nemo | I don't think remote is really something that concerns them at all right now though | 21:59 |
| fsmithred | I can believe that. I need it; they don't need it; I don't exist. | 22:00 |
| n4dir | a smart man once said: "modern architecture gets away without humans just as well" | 22:01 |
| n4dir | what again is wrong with X11? | 22:03 |
| nemo | n4dir: I think from people who actually do graphics programming, there's a lot of complaints that it's a pain to code to | 22:04 |
| nemo | like. overengineered and inefficient. there's also security complaints in terms of apps all being trusted when run in same session or somesuch | 22:05 |
| unixbsd | I need X11 forward for sure. | 22:05 |
| nemo | n4dir: but yeah, I really really like X forwarding, and it is reasonably efficient | 22:05 |
| nemo | n4dir: so handy to be able to fire up eclipse remotely on my phone for example | 22:05 |
| nemo | (yes, this is a thing I actually do ๐ ) | 22:05 |
| unixbsd | with chimaera, I have troubles to get net and video working. no idea, on bullseye it worked better (more or less, rather less). | 22:06 |
| fsmithred | unixbsd, what did you install? | 22:07 |
| fsmithred | or more specifically, what troubles? | 22:08 |
| n4dir | and what hardware | 22:08 |
| unixbsd | on chimaera, nothing, I have issue with kernel mostly. I guess. I would have to recompile it, it is bit late now. | 22:08 |
| nemo | n4dir: but yeah, I feel they tossed out the baby with the bathwater. streamlined everything to point of totally eliminating remote as a use case | 22:08 |
| unixbsd | my notebook eee pc | 22:08 |
| nemo | n4dir: or at least usable efficient remote. even windows RDP seems better at it. | 22:09 |
| n4dir | well, i never ran in Wayland. But Linux or open source has come to a point where any change doesn't make me happy | 22:09 |
| fsmithred | how old is the eee? | 22:09 |
| unixbsd | 3 y old | 22:09 |
| fsmithred | ok, that's old enough to be supported in stable/beowulf/buster | 22:10 |
| unixbsd | there is not a CD or DVD of chimaera on the official devuan webpage ? | 22:11 |
| fsmithred | nope | 22:11 |
| fsmithred | I have some unofficial ones | 22:11 |
| nemo | n4dir: oh, I get it. hell, I'm here in #devuan, also MATE and X11 | 22:13 |
| fsmithred | same place as the other one I linked | 22:13 |
| fsmithred | unixbsd, the chimaera iso does not have wireless firmware installed, but it does have some firmware deb packages. | 22:18 |
| unixbsd | on ascii or other, I dont need /lib/firmware. the kernel has it. bit need, I need to test more chimaera and origin. | 22:21 |
| unixbsd | even my moschip eth (usb to eth) doesnt work. | 22:21 |
| nemo | unixbsd: huh. are you sure? that sounds unlikely | 22:23 |
| fsmithred | can you paste the output of lspci somewere or post here the one or two lines for net hardware? | 22:23 |
| nemo | and maybe dmesg โบ | 22:23 |
| unixbsd | on bullseye the wifi worked, but not on chimaera. I will test with vanilla | 22:24 |
| fsmithred | not here | 22:24 |
| nemo | well no | 22:24 |
| fsmithred | I can't think of any reason it should be different. | 22:24 |
| fsmithred | it: bullseye/chimaera | 22:24 |
| fsmithred | we don't fork the kernel or any of the wireless firmware | 22:25 |
| nemo | systemd has its own driver management now ๐ | 22:25 |
| fsmithred | how are you trying to connect the wifi? | 22:27 |
| hagbard_ | What are the bets on when systemd is going to fork the kernel? | 22:28 |
| DashiePie | as soon as they've soaked up enough functionality to make the kernel their own | 22:28 |
| unixbsd | on bullseye, it works like magic. the pkg is printer-driver-brlaser, then system-config-printer, [ADD๏ฟฝ], find IP network and then, select : IPP:// and no driver is asked, no even a PPD. lpr -Pnameofprinter noname.pdf [DONE] Thank you debian! | 23:37 |
| unixbsd | (except systemd and the "su -" to get something to work. | 23:38 |
| unixbsd | the next step would be to try to put this bullseye/chimaera on a raspberry pi rpi3b to get a cups print server. | 23:42 |
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