libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2021-01-23

SwanDivehey guys02:24
SwanDiveI had a general question about the project, I was curious why systemd poses a security risk to Debian or even just a risk of getting Debian homogenized into another GNOME clone?02:25
asdflkjSwanDive: It’s a massive project with millions of lines of code that have never been thouroughly audited02:27
SwanDive@asdflkj right, so it posses a massive security risk02:27
asdflkjonce it had a bug that let you log in as root just by tapping backspace ~20 time02:27
SwanDiveyou're kidding me02:28
asdflkjnvm, that was grub02:28
asdflkjhttps://webhostinggeeks.com/howto/linux-machines-can-be-hacked-by-pressing-backspace-28-times/02:29
asdflkjsorry02:29
SwanDiveno worries02:29
SwanDivelook i appreciate your answer02:29
SwanDivein search of a secure distro and came across devuan02:29
golinuxI used to enjoy reading the "wontfix" bugs when they were still very publicly available. Hundreds of them02:29
SwanDiveCorrect me if i'm wrong here, but it sounds like the basic ethics of linux were abandoned with Debian. It's sad.02:30
golinuxhttps://nosystemd.org/02:31
SwanDiveI was curious if Devuan has a mobile OS variant? Similiar to Lineage OS 17.1? I want to degoogle my phone02:31
asdflkjto be fair, IIRC they didn’t adopt it until other major distros had and had made it pretty standard02:31
asdflkjthat would be mobian02:31
SwanDiveah Mobian thanks!02:32
golinuxAnd this prophecy from 2014 http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1408.1/02496.html02:32
SwanDiveI have a multi boot image i downloaded onto my sd card, ran out of space applying updates to KDE neon so have to go out today and buy a bigger card. Really wanna get my pine phone up and running.02:32
golinuxWe could see it coming even so many years ago . . . but all that is a bit off topic which is Devuan support issues here.02:33
SwanDiveSo, what is systemd? Well, meet your new God. You may have been praying02:34
SwanDiveat the alter of simplicity, but your religion is being deprecated. It02:34
SwanDivelikely already happened without your knowledge during an upgrade of02:34
SwanDiveyour Linux box. systemd is the all knowing, all controlling meta-deity02:34
SwanDivethat sees all and supervises all02:34
golinuxWe do have #devuan-pfftopic for systemd venting.02:34
SwanDivehaha that is terrifying02:34
SwanDiveI did not realise that the privacy invasion had come into the linux world. always imagined it as a safe space02:34
SwanDiveand sorry yeah not the place for the pine phone talk02:34
SwanDiveI always imagined if this kind of thing would happen it would be to a paid linux distro like redhat02:35
SwanDiveappreciate u linking  it @golinux explains it in good detail02:36
SwanDivewhat next sudo becomes default user right02:36
asdflkjSwanDive: redhat is where systemd originally came from02:36
SwanDiveyeah i took a course at redhat and they harped on about how great systemd was02:37
SwanDivethat makes sense02:37
SwanDiveI really have alot of respect for u guys here with the Devuan project02:38
SwanDivewe live in an age where we give out information like water02:38
SwanDiveIt is great to know the great minds behind this project are fighting for our right to privacy02:39
SwanDiveanother question on the Devuan website it mentions init freedom. Has there been some issue with the daemon that needs to be replaced like systemd?02:42
SwanDiveseems very strange that System d accumulates more tasks than managing services02:44
SwanDiveguys thank u so much for your help today hope u have a lovely day02:55
aur111howdy11:37
luser977linuxcnc.org 2.8+ is based on buster, they can't get the performance seen in wheezy rtai kernel from previous live's. Could someone suggest that a devuan system base would be better? ...14:23
luser977see their downloads page and forums14:23
aitor_luser977: i'll write in their forum; i'm registered in it for some time now, but i never wrote anything there16:11
fsmithredluser977, aitor_ I don't suppose using devuan would be any better. Sounds like the issue is with the kernel, and devuan uses debian kernels.16:20
aitor_hi fsmithred, i was in another computer...16:24
aitor_linuxcnc uses a real time kernel16:24
fsmithredhi16:24
fsmithredyeah, buster is what it says on the download page16:24
fsmithredwe have the same rt kernel (merged)16:25
aitor_yes16:26
aitor_but we don't know whether the issue is in the kernel16:26
fsmithredif someone wants to test it with devuan, that would be cool. Maybe the problem is not...16:27
fsmithredyeah16:27
fsmithredlol16:27
aitor_i'll give it a try16:27
fsmithredyou have a way to test it?16:28
aitor_maybe, but not sure about that16:28
aitor_it'll take me some time16:29
aitor_and help, of course16:29
aitor_but they have a forum16:30
fsmithredI'm downloading their iso. I'll see what's in it.16:30
aitor_ok16:31
aitor_as a first step, it would be a good idea to rebuild their iso taking devuan as a base and share the resulting image with them16:32
fsmithredthat's kinda what I was thinking16:33
fsmithredI don't know if this is a live iso or installer iso or something else.16:33
n4dirwhich distro is it?16:34
fsmithredlinuxcnc16:34
aitor_i'm also downloading it16:34
fsmithredfor milling machines16:34
aitor_and also 3D printers for sure16:35
fsmithredit's a live-iso with installer16:41
fsmithredxfce16:42
aitor_my download is taking too long ~17 minuts remaining16:42
fsmithred4.19.0-11-rt-amd6416:42
fsmithredyeah, it's slow16:42
fsmithredyour speed should pick up now that I'm finished downloading. ;)16:43
aitor_it fluctuates a lot16:45
aitor_fsmithred: need to go, i'll try it later and be back here16:46
fsmithredok, take care16:46
aitor_btw, i finished my popupmenu as an applet for tint2, and it's very quick16:46
fsmithredcool16:47
aitor_i'll upload new isos this weekend, see you later :)16:47
fsmithredbye16:47
aitor_bye16:47
fsmithredluser977, I installed linuxcnc-buster in a VM and migrated it to beowulf using the following instructions. It went well. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=18390#p1839019:34
fsmithredI had to manually install a few things at the end to prevent them from being autoremoved: exfat, gvfs, gdisk, xdg-utils, zenity19:36
fsmithredI have no way to test the cnc functions19:37
luser977fsmithred: go there and tell them?  #linuxcnc19:58
luser977also, did your update/upgrade keep ghe rt kernel? that's the key.19:59
luser977*the19:59
fsmithredluser977, of course it did. Devuan uses Debian kernels.20:00
fsmithredactually, I ended up with newer rt kernel. I just got finished removing the old ones.20:01
fsmithredgot -13 while the iso has -9 and -1120:01
luser977run the latency test program to see20:02
fsmithredI think I'll wait until aitor does some tests before I talk to the folks in #linuxcnc20:02
fsmithredWere they asking about devuan, or was that your idea?20:03
fsmithredI'm running it in a VM. Will that give valid results?20:04
luser977i don't know.20:07
luser977should be the worst compounded value from host and guest.20:08
luser977so if *that* is good...20:08
fsmithredI didn't test before converting it to devuan.20:08
fsmithred:(20:08
luser977I don't know if a rt kernel stays rt in a vm20:09
luser977well, test it now. what could go wrong?20:09
fsmithredI did test20:09
fsmithreddon't know what it means, and the test never ends20:10
fsmithredand no easy way to save results other than screenshot20:10
luser977so? yes it never ends. low numbers win20:10
luser977low numbers and tight spread (no outliers)20:11
fsmithredI can run the original iso in vm alongside the installed and migrated system also in vm, and I'm getting higher numbers with the migrated (devuan) system20:16
fsmithrednow that's reversed20:17
fsmithredbut they are close. I'm running glxgears at the same time20:17
luser977ok20:37
luser977neat, I agree with "too complex"20:38
luser977https://www.theregister.com/2021/01/22/debian_free_hard_to_install/20:38
user__Hilariously, fsmithred, the 1st comment and the following storm in that article are all about systemd :)20:47
fsmithredthe issue of non-free wireless drivers being absent from debian is not new.20:47
* user__ uses an openwrt routers used as STA with ethernet cable for that precise reason, when setting up things anew. And now, for other reasons.20:48
user__But now, ethernet plugs are gone from a lot of new laptops. And so are dvd drives. USB images should have a way to "live" patch a zipfs with non-free drivers into them during boot/install20:49
user__On Slackware this was possible even in 1995. I remember it. Just select "have disk" or such and pop in the diskette20:50
user__In any case, when I made NetBSD install "tapes" (tgz) and scripts I always provided at the end the "have patch disk" option.20:53
user__At the end of the install script I wrote.20:54
user__Which used as little user interaction as possible, the exact opposite of current scripts.20:54
user__[this is not a critique of current scripts]20:54
user__fsmithred: could you not amend refractainstaller to add such a feature in the future? "Install additional driver packages" from usb stick, once running from ram? Or from USB stick in another USB receptacle?21:00
fsmithreduser__, not needed if you have a network connection.21:00
fsmithredassuming you have contrib and non-free enabled in sources. list...21:00
fsmithredapt update && apt install firmware-whatever21:01
fsmithredthen run refractainstaller. It copies the live system as is.21:01
user__The idea was to get the network connection going 1st21:01
fsmithredthat's why I include wireless firmware packages in Refracta isos.21:02
fsmithredin that case, 'dpkg -i...21:02
user__Also some lshw/hwdet present on the live system and perhaps called directly from the installer.21:02
fsmithredwhat?21:02
user__Ah ok, I did not notice that. The included wireless packages.21:02
user__Being able to run lshw or similar from the install script may be useful imo.21:03
fsmithredin Refracta isos, packages are included. In Devuan Live isos, wireless firmware is already installed21:03
user__A lot of people can't find the command easily (I can)21:03
user__Ok, I only have experience with Devual Live installs so far.21:03
fsmithredI don't think lshw is included in most isos or in a default debian/devuan install21:03
user__It is not.21:04
fsmithredyou might like a Refracta iso better. I included a bunch of extra stuff and excluded some metapackages and recommends21:04
user__Which MIDI synth / emulation did you say runs well on beowulf? There was a discussion a few hours ago.21:04
fsmithredno clue. n4dir uses amsynth21:05
n4dirhmm ...21:05
user__amsynth is like an OPL chip emulator? midi in sound out?21:05
fsmithredI tried it and it works21:05
fsmithredyeah, I needed it to play midi21:05
fsmithredmade audacity work and also another21:06
fsmithredmaybe musescore21:06
user__I have something called libwildmidi2 installed21:06
fsmithredor just muse21:06
n4diruser__: ask a bit more detailed or just again. I was just busy so am not in the topic right now21:06
n4dirperhaps i have an idea. perhaps not. i am very restricted with what i do, but ran in a few applications21:07
user__Do you have playmidi installed?21:08
n4dirnope21:08
user__Hmm shall I get timidity or another player?21:09
n4diri think i can't really tell you which one is good there.21:09
n4diri do hear those names, but hardly do such21:10
user__I have used timidity before, way back when21:10
n4dirlibrazik, the website, it has a list of packages (french, probably paquets or such)21:10
n4dirbut that still won't help which ones are there, only 'what'21:10
n4dirsorry: which ones are good it won't tell, only which ones are there21:11
user__what's that midi onscreen x11 keyboard called again? tvsomething?21:11
user__ah there's jack-keyboard too21:12
n4dirvirtual midi keyboard you ask for21:12
n4dir?21:12
n4dirmamba too, and a few others21:12
n4dirvm... let me look21:13
n4dirvmpk21:13
n4dirjack-keyboard for me, if i need it at all21:13
user__vkeybd21:14
n4dirah, right21:14
n4dirmamba i don't hear often, and i once opened it and it kinda was a bit more of "comfort" or such, but i don't recall well21:14
n4diras in: just keep it in mind, depending what you look for21:15
user__mamba is not in normal package streams21:15
user__that I can see21:15
n4dirah, sorry. I added the librazik repos.21:15
n4dirnever that sure which package is from where21:15
user__hmm fluidsynth is present21:17
n4diri looked at a backend for very short: qsynth21:19
n4dirbut really: i only do that little. Mostly i simply know the names21:19
user__soundfront has some serious instrument patch files. 120MB+21:19
n4diryeah. I installed all soundfonts from librazik, and those were like 1.5 gigs. I don't think i need them. ha ha21:20
n4diruser__: iirc brocashelm had his say in offtopic, perhaps you ask him/her if he/she is online21:20
user__I think I am about to lose sound. jackd is being installed21:20
n4dirwith qjackctrl?21:21
user__I did not pay attention to that.21:21
n4dirthat way you could easily stop or start it21:22
n4dirwell: and configure. but i think fsmithred knows it better21:22
n4diruser__: perhaps look at a live CD like ubuntu-studio21:23
n4dirto get ideas about packages, i mean.21:23
n4dirah, i think librazik now has a live CD too.21:24
n4diri uploaded an iso librazik based on devuan instead of debian, but i really wouldn't trust that one. Better something "serious"21:25
fsmithredyeah, I use qjackctl21:26
user__I still have sound but no midi sound from the vmpk21:26
n4diruser__: you need some synth running, and connecting the midi-keyboard to the synth21:27
n4dirprobably with qjackctl, but in jack-keyboard you can do it from it's interface, iirc21:27
user__The only output I can see in MIDI Setup is Midi Through:021:27
n4dirso say: start amsynth, start jack-keyboard, pick amsynth from jack-keyboard.21:27
fsmithredI got no midi from audacity until I installed amsynth. All the jack connections were automatic.21:27
n4dirfsmithred: some software does it automatically, some doesn't21:28
n4dirif you search for real brain fuck: ams21:28
user__I have amsynth on, still no output. Let's see about jack.21:28
user__worky just amsynth + open kbd from amsynth Utils21:29
n4dirworks now?21:29
user__yes21:29
n4diruh baby !21:29
user__My audio driver is still pulse but amsynth thinks it talks to alsa due to compat pulse alsa being loaded21:30
n4diruser__: seq24 is fun, but without a quick how-to very confusing. there is one on youtube (linux music channel, iirc)21:30
user__I'll just play around a bit. Also got tk70721:30
n4dirlooks as if it was from 197421:30
n4diryeah. good luck, fun and all21:31
user__That's fine, to much gui polish makes stuff certainly bad under the hood21:31
n4dirit is if i want to test sounds in a synths really quick. Just an easy sequence, let it loop, while doing that fool with the "sounds"21:31
n4dirany DAW would do, but with seq24 i can do that more quickly, in a hurry21:32
user__timidity plays nicely.21:42
user__I get no sound from tk707 need to connect it to some player. Manually21:43
user__timidity drum patches sound like crap.21:47
user__timidity -iA followed by tk707 sorts the sound for tk70721:49
user__Not yet21:49
user__Something is wrong. amsynth plays in pulse as an alsa plugin source21:57
user__timidity plays nicely files from cli, timidity -iA shows as playing in pulse mixer and plays nothing21:57
user__The problem is timidity -iA, sorry21:59
user__so what's the other midi player/soft emulator you mentioned above again?22:00
n4dirthere was muse, rosegarden and musescore mentioned, iirc22:00
n4dirthough i for one don't think of them as "play midi  files".22:01
n4dirwith apt-cache search i find: wildmidi, pmidi, showq, playmidi22:03
n4dirwell, perhaps qsynth, gui for fluidsynth. I wouldn't know22:05
user__playmidi requires a sequencer, which timidity is22:05
user__wildmidi would qualify if it had a daemon mode.22:06
user__Hmm yoshimi is interesting. Will try it later22:07
n4diruh yeah.22:07
n4diruser__: wouldn't using lmms to play midi files make most sense?22:07
user__I need a daemon sequencer for tk707, drum box.22:08
n4dirah, ok.22:08
user__timidity plays .mid just fine, but only cli, not as daemon22:09
user__blargh it may be permissions. https://askubuntu.com/questions/822303/timidity-and-pulse-audio-playback22:10
user__Permissions fixed it.22:12
user__vigr + vigr -s ; add user to pulse-access:22:12
user__fsck you again, Poettering22:12
user__I think I need a permission group to wipe my a** from left to right now.22:12
user__tk707 does not work nicely.22:15
user__what's the sound system called in /etc/init.d?22:17
n4diri sure never find alsa, pulse or jack there. No clue how that works22:18
user__sigh. fsmithred ?22:19
user__I have osspd and restarted it but that is not what I need now22:19
user__in xfce it is started by xfce in session etc22:20
user__from cli: pulseaudio --kill; pulseaudio --start; pulseaudio --check; echo $? -> 022:22
fluffywolfthat seems like a poor replacement for apt-get purge pulseaudio22:23
fsmithredwhat?22:23
user__fsmithred: was trying to find out how pulseaudio starts, sorted22:24
user__Ok so timidity advertises 4 sequencer channels but only 2 work. 0 and 122:24
user__and not for long, it gets "stuck" and starts chattering22:35
user__trying fluidsynth. Works w/o jackd using: fluidsynth -a alsa -m alsa_seq ... using pulse-alsa module and pulse22:36
user__verified cli on beowulf: fluidsynth -a alsa -m alsa_seq -s -i /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf222:40
user__anyone used hydrogen? It's overkill for what I need but heh.22:48
user__speaking of elusive gases, off topic: https://www.theregister.com/2021/01/23/oh_dear_there_may_be/ 0.2mm holes? Wow.22:54
user__Interesting most of these are not in the mainstream package series http://linux-sound.org/drum.html23:00
user__this would be nice to have, for example. Simple drum machine. http://robert.muth.org/pyTrommler/23:05
user__zz time here, bye23:07
randomuser1975[Devuan 3] [Chmod] Issues with System-Wide Permissions23:15
randomuser1975I had run Lynis, a system security hardening script. Following its instructions, I changed the chmod to numerous files to much more secure23:15
randomuser1975ones. However, this caused permission errors with both alsa, and libraries. I saught the default permissions to restore my system at the directory root. In doing so, I discovered a script called "FixPermissions" originally posted to the Ubuntu Forums. Running this bricked my system. Looking around, this script apparentky has found its way around the net, bricking other people's systems (haha).23:15
randomuser1975I am able to access root only through the Kernel's recovery console. Attatched Image is the permission changes post-script. I have access to fix this, but I have no idea what to do. Please help.23:15
randomuser1975https://i.4cdn.org/g/1611432879315.jpg23:17
randomuser1975Reinstilation is undesirable at this time23:20
rwprandomuser1975 did not stay long enough for an answer.  But the permissions displayed in that photo looked okay to me.23:35
rwpI am not a fan of those "hardening" scripts.  Maybe at one time those had a purpose.  But now they just break things.23:35
rwpBecause if there were a real problem to begin with then it would have gotten fixed in the OS distro already.23:36
rrqand running a script first, then seek answers how to recover is not always the best order of actions23:36
XenguyYeah, when random user whips out the scalpel and commences major surgery with a script, and then something goes wrong... it reminds me of automobile drivers that go out in a blizzard, and then want help getting pushed out of the snow...23:51
XenguyWhen I was younger I would help for the fun of it, and but now I just laugh and keep on going  B -D23:52

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