| Guest54 | hello, i've been running ceres and during an update, wicd was uninstalled. i'm trying to manually set up my connection and looking at the archwiki for help. Upon checking if the kernel module in use by my ethernet cable was loaded, it came up in the dmesg but it didn't say "eth0 link is up" | 00:50 |
|---|---|---|
| Guest54 | is this an issue? do i have to load the module? | 00:52 |
| gnarface | Guest54: try to just install wicd again. it is not unexpected for things to be randomly uninstalled from ceres during an update (it's a good idea to pay attention to what gets uninstalled so you know when not to update) | 00:55 |
| gnarface | Guest54: wicd is not required for networking | 00:55 |
| gnarface | Guest54: (you may have a conflicting program or config installed instead) | 00:55 |
| * numzob is a little aprehensive at "it is not unexpected for things to be randomly uninstalled from ceres during an update" | 00:57 | |
| numzob | wait, ceres is sid? never mind: i retract my statement | 00:57 |
| gnarface | it is possible it was recently removed completely, either permanently or temporarily, but it was there as of the last time i updated | 00:58 |
| gnarface | a couple days ago i think... | 00:58 |
| gnarface | well, it was there in the listing anyway | 00:59 |
| gnarface | i can't claim i tried to see if it was working | 00:59 |
| Guest54 | i'm having trouble connecting to the internet | 00:59 |
| Guest54 | i can't resolve deb.devuan.org | 00:59 |
| Guest54 | wait nvm | 01:00 |
| Guest54 | it says i have a problem with wicd-damon | 01:00 |
| gnarface | does it say what problem? | 01:00 |
| Guest54 | it needs python-gobject2 but it's not installable | 01:00 |
| gnarface | oh | 01:00 |
| gnarface | bummer | 01:00 |
| gnarface | well, what do you have in /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/resolv.conf? | 01:00 |
| gnarface | don't paste it here | 01:01 |
| Guest54 | resolv.conf: lan as domain and search | 01:01 |
| fsmithred | wicd gets removed because of some python2 package that got dropped | 01:01 |
| Guest54 | then name server is my ip | 01:01 |
| fsmithred | the version in sid/ceres is old | 01:01 |
| gnarface | well that sounds wrong | 01:01 |
| Guest54 | interfaces says auto lo | 01:02 |
| gnarface | only lo? | 01:02 |
| gnarface | put eth0 in there | 01:02 |
| Guest54 | and iface lo inet loopback | 01:02 |
| Guest54 | just eth0 on a new line? | 01:02 |
| gnarface | do you need dhcp? | 01:03 |
| gnarface | it can be dhcp or static | 01:03 |
| Guest54 | it uses dhcp | 01:03 |
| Guest54 | i'm not sure if i need it but that was how it was set up | 01:03 |
| gnarface | iface eth0 inet dhcp | 01:03 |
| gnarface | then run "ifup eth0" at the command-line as root | 01:04 |
| gnarface | maybe you'll get lucky | 01:04 |
| gnarface | if the dhcp client wasn't also uninstalled or broken | 01:04 |
| gnarface | if it doesn't work i'd recommend consulting the interfaces man page on how to put in a static ip config | 01:04 |
| gnarface | its really actually not hard | 01:05 |
| gnarface | you don't have to use it permanently, you can always change back to dhcp easily | 01:05 |
| gnarface | (after you get the broken dependency issue fixed) | 01:05 |
| Guest54 | do i have to use root or can i use sudo | 01:06 |
| gnarface | oh, you can probably use sudo | 01:06 |
| Guest54 | ok just ran it | 01:06 |
| Guest54 | i got a response i think? | 01:06 |
| gnarface | you can run "ifconfig -a" (also as root or with sudo) to see if it worked | 01:07 |
| Guest54 | what should i look for | 01:07 |
| Guest54 | eth0 comes up first with ifconfig -a | 01:07 |
| gnarface | well, actually ifconfig -a will work as a regular user too if you include the path: /sbin/ifconfig -a | 01:07 |
| Guest54 | does that mean it worked? | 01:07 |
| gnarface | well, look at the ip | 01:07 |
| Guest54 | oh nvm | 01:07 |
| Guest54 | it's good | 01:07 |
| Guest54 | thanks | 01:07 |
| Guest54 | i haven't updated in a week in a half | 01:08 |
| Guest54 | lmao | 01:08 |
| gnarface | should be obvious by ip | 01:08 |
| Guest54 | yup | 01:08 |
| Guest54 | ip is the same | 01:08 |
| gnarface | sometimes the GUI tools are more trouble than they're worth IMO | 01:08 |
| numzob | word | 01:08 |
| gnarface | oh | 01:08 |
| Guest54 | yeah i'll probably use the nongraphical devuan installer next time i do an install | 01:08 |
| gnarface | Guest54: but it's probably really important to remember that what we just did might conflict with wicd and break it | 01:09 |
| Guest54 | right | 01:09 |
| Guest54 | that makes sense | 01:09 |
| gnarface | Guest54: if you put wicd back, remember to delete this or at least comment it out | 01:09 |
| Guest54 | alright | 01:09 |
| gnarface | Guest54: (wicd might do that for you i dunno) | 01:09 |
| Guest54 | going to write a comment in now actually | 01:09 |
| Guest54 | i just need # and a space right? | 01:09 |
| gnarface | i don't think the "#" even needs to be followed by a space | 01:11 |
| Guest54 | actually | 01:11 |
| Guest54 | i think i'll write it down | 01:11 |
| gnarface | you can even use TWO ## | 01:11 |
| Guest54 | lol | 01:11 |
| kiwi9 | but formatting is nicer with python style spaces :-) | 01:12 |
| Guest54 | yeah | 01:12 |
| Guest54 | but honestly i think i'm more likely to forget about this so i'll just put it on paper | 01:12 |
| kiwi9 | I have a file called linux.md in my Documents where I put all the little changes I put (like using both chimaera and ceres but using preferences to prevent ceres being used except on purpose). | 01:14 |
| numzob | md? not txt? | 01:14 |
| kiwi9 | I have a taste for bold headers I'm afraid ... impure. | 01:15 |
| numzob | oh, you use md for the formatting! understood | 01:15 |
| sgage | As far as I can tell, wicd does not exist in the chimaera repos. | 01:25 |
| sgage | Don't know about ceres. | 01:25 |
| Guest54 | yeah | 01:26 |
| Guest54 | no ceres packages | 01:26 |
| Wafficus | I'm trying to build gtk+3.20 from source, and I get "No package found" for the following packages: 'glib-2.0', 'atk', 'pango', 'cairo', 'cairo-gobject' 'gdk-pixbuf-2.0' | 01:27 |
| Wafficus | are these available in regular Devuan Beowfulf? I ask because I can't seem to find some of these in the apt | 01:28 |
| golinux | Wafficus: You can find all that information yourself here: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html | 01:28 |
| Wafficus | so lets say I found a chiamera: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/package-query.html?c=package&q=libspice-client-glib-2.0-dev=0.39-1 | 01:29 |
| Wafficus | how do I go about installing this on Devuan Beowulf? | 01:30 |
| Wafficus | do I have to add the package url to apt sources or something? | 01:30 |
| Wafficus | or is this idea that I have to utilize the 'backport' syntax in a scenario like this? | 01:35 |
| Wafficus | https://www.devuan.org/os/packages | 01:37 |
| sgage | Yes, you need to use backports. You probably might think about | 01:40 |
| sgage | learning more about how the deb packaging system works, because | 01:40 |
| Guest54 | internet broke again but i just ran sudo ifup eth0 and it works now | 01:40 |
| sgage | it can accomodate all sorts of scenarios if you understand it. | 01:41 |
| Wafficus | sgage: gotcha, no problem. But since I found the specific package, do I add this to my apt list? Never did this kind of thing before | 01:41 |
| Wafficus | Only did this for like Nvidia drivers, but that was just to force proprietary drivers for one occassion | 01:41 |
| sgage | Wafficus, not sure what you mean by 'apt list' | 01:43 |
| Wafficus | apt source list in /etc/apt/ I believe | 01:43 |
| sgage | what you want to do is enable backports in sources list, then | 01:43 |
| sgage | apt install (the packages you want) -t beowulf-backports | 01:46 |
| sgage | something like that - i don't use backports much. | 01:46 |
| Wafficus | so if its "http://deb.devuan.org/mergedchimaera/mainamd64" I would add the following to /etc/apt/source.list: "deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera backports main" | 01:47 |
| Wafficus | THEN, I would use your command 'apt install (package) -t beowulf-backports' right? | 01:48 |
| fsmithred | there's no chimaera backports | 01:49 |
| sgage | if you're using beowulf, you'd at beowulf-backports to your sources.list | 01:49 |
| fsmithred | bewoulf-backports | 01:49 |
| sgage | add | 01:49 |
| fsmithred | command is right | 01:49 |
| Wafficus | ok cool thanks so it would be: | 01:49 |
| Wafficus | deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera beowulf-backports main | 01:50 |
| Wafficus | ok thanks | 01:50 |
| fsmithred | no chimaera | 01:50 |
| sgage | no 'chimaera' in there! | 01:50 |
| fsmithred | that's the testing suite | 01:50 |
| Wafficus | but the package I want is from 'unstable' and 'chiamera': | 01:51 |
| Wafficus | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=glib-2.0 | 01:51 |
| Wafficus | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/package-query.html?c=package&q=libspice-client-glib-2.0-dev=0.39-1 | 01:51 |
| fsmithred | then you might need to backport it | 01:51 |
| sgage | if the package you want has been backported to beowulf, | 01:51 |
| sgage | you get it with beowulf-backports | 01:52 |
| sgage | if it's backported to beowulf it's FROM chimaera! | 01:52 |
| fsmithred | it's not in beowulf-backports | 01:53 |
| sgage | not all new chimaera packages have been compiled against the beowulf libs | 01:55 |
| golinux | Wafficus: Please read this page: https://beta.devuan.org/os/packages | 01:55 |
| golinux | Oh forgrt the beta I was just reviewing sonthing there. | 01:55 |
| golinux | Thy this: https://devuan.org/os/packages | 01:55 |
| Wafficus | golinux: yes, I read it, but I didn't see any instructions on the workflow of adding this, hence why I was asking | 01:55 |
| Wafficus | weirdly enough even after I try to run ./configure for gtk+-3.20.10 | 01:56 |
| Wafficus | its still coomplianing no package 'glib-2.0' found | 01:56 |
| Wafficus | even though it says 'libspice-client-glib-2.0.-8 is already at the newest version (0.35-2) | 01:56 |
| sgage | Wafficus, you really should take some time to learn the deb system | 01:56 |
| rrq | aren't those libraries rather than packages? | 01:56 |
| sgage | It seems you are flailing around a bit. Look at the Debian Handbook | 01:57 |
| rrq | eg libglib2.0-0 ? | 01:57 |
| golinux | sgage: The dev who created this 3rd party theme should be helping him sort it. | 01:58 |
| sgage | re: apt and friends, and how the deb system works. | 01:58 |
| golinux | It's not a devuan or Debian package he is trying to install | 01:58 |
| sgage | libraries ARE delivered as packages - there's no libraries rather than packages | 01:58 |
| * golinux goes to put the focaccia into the oven | 01:59 | |
| sgage | I am out of my depth, and will bow out - just trying to help | 01:59 |
| sgage | according to my understanding of the way things work. | 01:59 |
| rrq | Wafficus: ..... and there are various "atk.o" and "atk.so" but no "atk" package | 02:01 |
| Wafficus | yeah finding some of these dependencies is kind of nuts | 02:02 |
| Wafficus | there's gotta be a GTK+3.20 package in the backports | 02:02 |
| Wafficus | I did put a GitHub issue for it though. I just would rather at least try to build gtk+3.20 anyway, because that's probably what I have to end up doing anyway | 02:03 |
| Wafficus | well, I tried multiple different globs for that search site, but I just can't find GTK+ present. Can anyone confirm if there IS a backport for this on Devuan? If not, no problem, I'll continue with figuring out what dependencies I would need | 02:08 |
| Wafficus | just need this answer so I can move on to other machine with that focus in mind | 02:09 |
| fsmithred | what's the actual package name you want? | 02:09 |
| fsmithred | I find no package named gtk+3.20 or anything close to that | 02:12 |
| rrq | Wafficus: package "libglib2.0-0" has "libglib-2.0.so.0" .. and "libglib2.0-dev" has "libglib-2.0.so" and "libglib-2.0.a" .. probably you'll need the -dev | 02:14 |
| rrq | ... and libatk1.0-dev has libatk-1.0.so | 02:16 |
| rrq | you might use the "file pattern" search of https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html (searching like "/libatk") to pick some packages if those are libraries | 02:17 |
| Wafficus | fsmithred: well that's why I'm resorting to build gtk+3.20 from source since I just couldn't find it | 02:19 |
| Wafficus | I think its too bleeding edge, even for the testing branch or something | 02:19 |
| Wafficus | its weirder since I probably even have to install the dependencies from source which will be a mess too I guess | 02:19 |
| fsmithred | how did you come up with that name, meaning how did you decide that you needed that package? | 02:19 |
| fsmithred | what's it for? | 02:19 |
| Wafficus | its for a Macintosh old school theme for "Mate" basically | 02:20 |
| Wafficus | GTK+3.20 is listed as a dependency | 02:20 |
| Wafficus | anyway, I'm trying to figure out how to utilize Devuan's package manager to my advantage | 02:20 |
| Wafficus | but I think it'll be for naught since its even too new for even the testing stuff | 02:20 |
| Wafficus | so yeah, there's the summary so far really | 02:20 |
| man_in_shack | well that makes sense. you need the very latest graphical libraries to render macintosh graphics | 02:21 |
| sgage | It is not too bleeding edge - it's in chimaera (testing) as I told you | 02:21 |
| Wafficus | sgage: "gtk+3.20" is in chimaera? | 02:21 |
| sgage | a while back. | 02:21 |
| Wafficus | man_in_shack: well lol, not the theme, its more just of a MATE theme really | 02:21 |
| sgage | yes! that doesn't mean it's backported, though. | 02:21 |
| fsmithred | you probably just don't know how debian renamed the package | 02:22 |
| sgage | this is a lot of anguish to go through for a fracking Mac theme. | 02:22 |
| Wafficus | so let me get this straight, it exists as a chiamera, but hasn't been "packaged" yet | 02:22 |
| Wafficus | how do I utilize a 'chimaera' if I need it then | 02:22 |
| sgage | I gave the exact package names earlier. | 02:23 |
| Wafficus | I checked the history, can't find it honestly | 02:23 |
| Wafficus | in the log * | 02:23 |
| sgage | Backports means a program has been compiled against beowulf libraries/infrastructure. | 02:23 |
| Wafficus | ah I see "the packages in Chimaera you want are gtk-3.0, gtk-3-bin, and gtk-3-common" | 02:23 |
| sgage | because a package exists in chimaera does NOT mean it is necessarily in beowulf-backports. | 02:24 |
| sgage | I gave a whole roster of packages, gtk3, gtk2, the engines, etc. But you | 02:24 |
| fsmithred | libgtk-3-common: | 02:24 |
| fsmithred | Installed: 3.24.5-1 | 02:24 |
| fsmithred | in beowulf | 02:25 |
| sgage | won't slow down and think. You are flailing, and I quit. | 02:25 |
| rrq | there is no package "gtk-3.0" in Chimaera but there is "libgtk-3-0" | 02:26 |
| fsmithred | libgtk-3-dev: | 02:26 |
| fsmithred | Installed: (none) | 02:26 |
| fsmithred | Candidate: 3.24.5-1 | 02:26 |
| fsmithred | in beowulf | 02:26 |
| rrq | sgage: being sloppy with names is sloppy | 02:27 |
| Wafficus | hmm, still confusing nonetheless | 02:28 |
| Wafficus | I am thinking though, thanks sgage. I'm just presented with a huge list of package names that don't really relate. Ex: I'm looking for "GTK+3.20", yet all I see are like 'gtk2' and 'gtk3'. I might not be familiar with it all, but one would think that there's 'gtk2', 'gtk3' and 'gtk+' apparently | 02:29 |
| fsmithred | Wafficus, try this command... | 02:30 |
| fsmithred | apt show libgtk-3-dev | 02:30 |
| Wafficus | right, I see that on my Devuan Desktop, yes | 02:30 |
| Wafficus | the dependencies look similar | 02:31 |
| golinux | Has anyone checked the banned packages list? I am not going to attempt to read that new format. | 02:31 |
| fsmithred | no, it won't be there. It's a naming problem. Upstream doesn't use debian naming conventions. | 02:31 |
| fsmithred | Wafficus, does the description sound anything like what you want to do? | 02:32 |
| golinux | https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk.html | 02:32 |
| fsmithred | This package contains the header and development files which are | 02:32 |
| fsmithred | needed for building GTK+ applications. | 02:32 |
| Wafficus | ok, I'll try installing 'libgtk-3-dev' sounds similar in terms of dependencies | 02:32 |
| golinux | Part I. GTK+ Overview | 02:32 |
| Wafficus | yeah that sounds familiar alrighty | 02:32 |
| golinux | IOW RTFM! | 02:32 |
| fsmithred | good luck with gtk3 | 02:32 |
| * golinux has always wanted to do that! | 02:32 | |
| fsmithred | it's possible that 3.24 is too new for 3.20 | 02:33 |
| fsmithred | they drove a bunch of devs away by changing too much with each minor version | 02:33 |
| Wafficus | I did read the manual, but the README was pretty basic so yeah | 02:33 |
| Wafficus | hmm interesting | 02:33 |
| Wafficus | yeah I saw that people were mad because each GTK version broke themes from previous versions | 02:34 |
| Wafficus | while doing related research on this * | 02:34 |
| golinux | This is a must read: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ | 02:35 |
| MinceR | got to stop people from being able to use any theme they want, because "branding" :> | 02:36 |
| Wafficus | even after that 'libgtk-3-dev' installation, when I go to System > Preferences > Look and Feel > Appearance > and I try to select that "System4" theme, it just says "This theme will not look as intended because the required GTK+ theme 'Ssystem 4' is not installed. Yet, when I click "Install" and go to that ~/.themes directory, there's nothing to select inside of it. Even though the '.index' file is | 02:36 |
| Wafficus | there | 02:36 |
| Wafficus | what a mess :/ | 02:37 |
| Wafficus | anyway, will read that thanks golinux | 02:37 |
| Wafficus | dang, just read that (skimmed) | 02:38 |
| Wafficus | that's nuts, so its upstream that sucks in that regards | 02:38 |
| Wafficus | interesting | 02:38 |
| golinux | Gnome sucks. Systemd sucks. We're here for sanity | 02:39 |
| golinux | We want freedom and simplicity. Not lockin and overcomplexification | 02:40 |
| * numzob isn't too keen on pulseaudo either | 02:40 | |
| golinux | And all that is offtopic. Apologies for the diversion | 02:42 |
| Wafficus | that's true, no worries | 02:46 |
| Wafficus | just so I don't seem like an arrogant bastard, the dev's responded to my GitHub issue for my alt acconut: | 02:47 |
| Wafficus | Quote: "Murrine and Pixmap are only for GTK2, and given that GTK2 is end of life, you might not need to worry about that pretty soon." | 02:47 |
| Wafficus | anyway, I gave them related screenshots of what I'm experiencing, and they're pretty responsive as in they wrote back TODAY lol, that NEVER happens | 02:47 |
| Wafficus | anyway, i'll take it up with them, force the Devs to spill the beans on what else is needed, or just to show them it actually doesn't work, and go from there | 02:47 |
| fsmithred | and if gtk3 is not horror enough, gtk4 is around the corner | 02:47 |
| Wafficus | appreciate the help on that one to be honest | 02:48 |
| Wafficus | I just wanted a nice highlight of the weekend to FINALLY get the stupid (%!@#( theme I wanted lol, but I guess I gotta have patience: https://github.com/B00merang-Project/System-4/issues/1 | 02:48 |
| Wafficus | ^ for reference if needed | 02:48 |
| Wafficus | on a similar note, with all of these DE's I just tried. I actually liked LxQt wiht Openbox a little bit since the key combo configs were really nicely easily edited | 02:49 |
| Wafficus | the only weird thing on Devuan is that the context menu for the wallpaper aka right-click the wallpaper revealed like a blank menu | 02:49 |
| Wafficus | but that might be an upstream issue in terms of Debian not working well with LxQt, which I've seen in small research I've done on the side | 02:49 |
| golinux | I told you the possible solution to that yesterday. | 02:52 |
| fsmithred | I've changed wallpaper in lxqt easily | 02:52 |
| fsmithred | don't remember how, but it was easy | 02:52 |
| golinux | install gtk2-engines. | 02:53 |
| golinux | fsmithred: Remember the blank menus we used to get? | 02:53 |
| fsmithred | yeah, but that was with gtk desktops | 02:53 |
| fsmithred | not qt | 02:53 |
| golinux | Ha, good observation. | 02:54 |
| Wafficus | golinux: for the LxQt issue? | 02:54 |
| Wafficus | there was a solution to it rather *? | 02:55 |
| Wafficus | golinux: what was your previous solution again? | 03:05 |
| golinux | See this comment: | 03:33 |
| golinux | <fsmithred> yeah, but that was with gtk desktops | 03:33 |
| golinux | So it won't work on LxQt | 03:33 |
| fsmithred | probably not | 03:34 |
| fsmithred | not sure about the openbox menu (right-click on desktop) | 03:35 |
| golinux | You can try installing install gtk2-engines | 03:35 |
| golinux | It fixed things on Xfce | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | does the ob themerc have gtk stuff in it? | 03:36 |
| golinux | I just change the colors. Don't ask me how it works | 03:37 |
| Wafficus | hmm I have gtk2-engines installed though :/ | 03:37 |
| * golinux wanders off to fold laundry | 03:37 | |
| golinux | Then it won;t fix it | 03:37 |
| Wafficus | hmm, gotcha | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | no worries | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | by the way, you're right | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | that Dev was super responsive | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | apparently it was on their end, they need to make a "Window Manager Theme" for MATE Desktop | 03:38 |
| Wafficus | so yeah the issue was on their end, sorry for any grief | 03:39 |
| ifdown | Help with enabling Devuan as a VirtualBox host, please. | 03:46 |
| fsmithred | ifdown, https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3259 | 03:49 |
| ifdown | Thanks! | 03:50 |
| fsociety[00]dat | hi, first thanx for 3.1 release. | 09:31 |
| fsociety[00]dat | i wanted to know do i must use expert install method for openrc init system? | 09:32 |
| fsociety[00]dat | downloading "devuan_beowulf_3.1.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso" | 09:34 |
| fsociety[00]dat | i will use this image. | 09:34 |
| fsociety[00]dat | and why is not there an announce for 3.1 on distrowatch ? | 09:36 |
| fsociety[00]dat | anybody home | 09:39 |
| fsociety[00]dat | ? | 09:39 |
| golinux | That is not the iso you want. I only copies the live files to your hard drive. | 09:48 |
| golinux | fsociety[00]dat: https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/beowulf/live-gui | 09:50 |
| golinux | Please have a look at this page: https://www.devuan.org/os/install | 09:53 |
| fsociety[00]dat | golinux: thanks, which init system default on live media i downloaded ^ ? | 10:04 |
| fsociety[00]dat | and, what does deselecting " [*] Devuan desktop environment " , selecting " [ ] ... Xfce (Default) " do? | 10:07 |
| golinux | sysvinit | 10:14 |
| fsociety[00]dat | thanks again | 10:15 |
| golinux | Second question is for the installer iso? | 10:15 |
| fsociety[00]dat | yes | 10:15 |
| fsociety[00]dat | same thing in debian and some people ask for this :) | 10:16 |
| fsociety[00]dat | like me | 10:16 |
| golinux | I think that Devuan desktop environment provides the full desktop theming | 10:17 |
| golinux | But I haven't done a net install in a while | 10:18 |
| fsociety[00]dat | ok | 10:18 |
| fsociety[00]dat | thanks again for the answers | 10:18 |
| golinux | Well I'm guessing a bit. | 10:19 |
| golinux | This is the default beowulf theme: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2646 | 10:19 |
| golinux | I suspect but not sure that Xfce will give you the mouse theming | 10:20 |
| gour | morning | 10:49 |
| gour | i'd like to move to devuan from debian, but have lot of problems installing it on my netbook. installation on bios/gpt combod does fail and cannot boot and same thing does happen when i try with uefi install. when i try grub-install in rescue mode i get "cannot set EFI variable...no spae left on device..:", something like https://github.com/mpalourdio/xps13/issues/113 | 10:52 |
| gour | otoh, installing mxlinux on the same machine does work. someone in the issue above mentioned going from shim-signed to shim-unsigned, but, afaict, both are installed on devuan-beowolf. any hint? | 10:53 |
| gour | of course, there is plenty of space on /boot/efi partition (512M) | 10:56 |
| gnarface | gour: missing some package i think. i forget what its called but i'm pretty sure "efi" is in the name | 11:29 |
| gnarface | gour: maybe grub-efi-* | 11:33 |
| gnarface | grumble: grub-efi-something | 11:33 |
| gnarface | gour: ^ | 11:33 |
| gnarface | (ignore that, grumble) | 11:33 |
| fsmithred | gour, did you make a bios_grub partition (also known as ef02 in gdisk)? | 13:08 |
| fsmithred | at least 1MB in size, unformatted (no filesystem on it) | 13:09 |
| fsmithred | flag bios_grub (gparted) or ef02 (gdisk) | 13:09 |
| gour | fsmithred: yes, ef02 partition is there...moreover, with mxlinux i do custom install and it can handle it | 14:05 |
| gour | gnarface: ok, will try that | 14:05 |
| fsmithred | you should not need grub-efi for bios boot, even with gpt | 14:06 |
| fsmithred | what did you use to partition the disk? | 14:06 |
| gour | fsmithred: well, i had problems in the past with that machine and bios/grub combo | 14:07 |
| gour | fsmithred: tried many things, cfdisk, gfdisk, gparted... | 14:07 |
| fsmithred | did you leave a free 1mb space before the first partition? | 14:07 |
| fsmithred | I think gparted does that automatically | 14:08 |
| gour | yes, layout is ok | 14:09 |
| gour | otoh, mxlinux does install it with the same layout | 14:10 |
| fsmithred | by any chance is it an old thinkpad? | 14:11 |
| gour | yes, edgepad e125 | 14:11 |
| fsmithred | hm. I have a T420 that does not like bios boot. | 14:12 |
| fsmithred | I had to boot from cdrom and then jump to the hard drive | 14:12 |
| fsmithred | until I switched it to efi boot | 14:12 |
| gour | with some distros i was able to make it boot with bios/gpt, but devuan has problem with efi as well | 14:13 |
| fsmithred | if you're doing efi boot, sometimes there's a mis-match between the name of the bootloader directory in the efi partition and the grub $prefix | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | with signed grub, it expects "debian" but the dir is "devuan" | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | so maybe... | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | grub-install --bootloader-id=debian | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | or remove the signed grub package and just do grub-install | 14:15 |
| gour | thanks. will try it out | 14:15 |
| fsmithred | do you land on grub prompt? | 14:15 |
| fsmithred | instead of boot menu | 14:16 |
| gour | nope, i just got "OS not found" | 14:16 |
| gour | now i'm updating to Ceres and then will try further... | 14:16 |
| fsmithred | are you any good at booting from grub command line? | 14:16 |
| fsmithred | if so, you can poke around and get some information | 14:16 |
| gour | i do not arrive at grub cmd line | 14:17 |
| fsmithred | ok | 14:17 |
| gour | in any case, same machine mxlinux does install & boot, while devuan does not...but i prefer to switch to the latter :-) | 14:17 |
| fsmithred | compare grub packages between the two | 14:18 |
| fsmithred | or... | 14:18 |
| fsmithred | install a small mxlinux to control the boot, but always boot devuan | 14:18 |
| gour | heh, i'd prefer to avoid that ;) | 14:19 |
| fsmithred | I understand. | 14:19 |
| fsmithred | better than booting from cdrom all the time | 14:19 |
| gour | if mxlinux can do it, it should be possible for devuan as well | 14:19 |
| fsmithred | yeah, compare packages | 14:20 |
| fsmithred | and look in the bootloader dirs | 14:20 |
| gour | that machine does not even have cdrom | 14:20 |
| fsmithred | floppy? | 14:20 |
| gour | only usb | 14:20 |
| gour | i've tried to boot with systemrescuecd image and it shows slim login, but it is frozen - cannot enter uid/passwd | 14:21 |
| fsmithred | that's weird | 14:22 |
| * gour nods | 14:22 | |
| fsmithred | you used a regular installer iso or live iso? | 14:22 |
| gour | regulard desktop image, as well as netinst | 14:23 |
| fsmithred | have you tried the new isos yet? uploaded 3.1.0 yesterday | 14:24 |
| gour | live iso disn't want to give me xfs as option | 14:24 |
| fsmithred | right | 14:24 |
| fsmithred | well... | 14:24 |
| fsmithred | if you set it not to format, and you format manually, it'll work. | 14:24 |
| gour | nope, only 3.0.0 | 14:24 |
| fsmithred | I assume. Never tried with xfs. | 14:24 |
| gour | 3.1.0 is worth to try... | 14:25 |
| fsmithred | yeah | 14:25 |
| fsmithred | netinstall iso is a quick download | 14:25 |
| fsmithred | and a quick install if you skip the desktop stuff | 14:25 |
| gour | right | 14:26 |
| fsmithred | the new set will put the bootloader files in EFI/devuan but will put a copy of grub.cfg in EFI/debian to make the signed grub happy | 14:27 |
| fsmithred | but I don't know if that will fix your problem. | 14:27 |
| fsmithred | that fixes the problem of getting grub prompt instead of boot menu | 14:28 |
| fsmithred | I need to go afk. back later. | 14:29 |
| gour | ta | 14:29 |
| gour | installing 3.1 did not help | 15:23 |
| fsmithred | gour, have you ever tried rEFInd with this computer? https://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/refind.html | 15:35 |
| gour | no | 15:41 |
| onefang | rEFInd is available in Devuan, and I use it for my desktop. It's good. | 15:57 |
| lts | How necessary is eudev? Is it needed in a VM which does have virtual drives attached, but won't get USB devices passed through to it, or monitors etc? | 16:04 |
| fsmithred | lts, I guess you could make all static devices in /dev. Not sure. | 16:07 |
| lts | "The following packages will be REMOVED: eudev initramfs-tools initramfs-tools-core linux-image-4.19.0-13-amd64 linux-image-4.19.0-14-amd64 linux-image-amd64 udev" | 16:08 |
| lts | Guess this answers it | 16:08 |
| gour | ok, for now i "solved" my installation issue by doing mbr/bios setup, i'll try to re-install at some other time in the future...however, i got only ncurses grub menu instead of gui one? | 16:10 |
| gour | the same happened with 3.0 as well... | 16:10 |
| jelly | it's been rather hard to make initrd without udev since around lenny or squeeze. You could use a custom kernel with everything needed to boot up compiled in. | 16:10 |
| lts | Yup thanks both. Cannot remove. | 16:14 |
| gour | btw, do you recommend runit over sysvunit or it's not ready yet? | 16:14 |
| numzob | it would be best to be aware of the differences and then decide based on your personal use-case | 16:15 |
| gour | i played a bit with runit when evalauting vodlinux some years ago...it was handy but not too familiar with it | 16:17 |
| fsmithred | gour, if you want the grub theme you have to re-install destkop-base | 16:26 |
| fsmithred | in the installer, make sure there's a GRUB_THEME= line in /etc/default/grub and then run 'update-grub' to generate a new boot menu | 16:27 |
| fsmithred | lts, what are you doing that apt wants to remove eudev??? | 16:28 |
| fsmithred | you're caught in some kind of weird dependency hell right now. It happens. | 16:28 |
| xinomilo | fsmithred, `apt remove eudev` probably | 16:38 |
| fsmithred | lol | 16:39 |
| lts | Correct. Just removing unnecessary things when found :-) | 16:41 |
| fsmithred | oh, I didn't see that the latest kernel would be removed. | 16:41 |
| fsmithred | or do you have a backports kernel? | 16:41 |
| lts | Debian 4.19.171-2 (2021-01-30) | 16:41 |
| lts | Nothing's wrong, this was just me seeing the eudev process in a very minimalized VM and wondering is this really needed | 16:42 |
| fsmithred | oh | 16:49 |
| fsmithred | you could replace it with vdev | 16:49 |
| fsmithred | I think there's a gnuinos iso with that | 16:50 |
| nu2this | aloha... I'm wondering what is the preferred laptop for Devuan install? any device to stay away from for installation? | 19:04 |
| fsmithred | stay away from anything that uses broadcom wireless and has no ethernet port | 19:05 |
| fsmithred | that's not a fatal flaw, but it's a pain in the ass | 19:06 |
| nu2this | good point! I put kali on a system and had to mess with that issue. I forgot... thank for reminding me. | 19:06 |
| fsmithred | nu2this, have you used debian? | 19:06 |
| nu2this | I have used debian before the systemd fun. That kind of kept me away. found you guys and here I am. | 19:07 |
| fsmithred | the isos do have a few broadcom drivers, but not all. | 19:07 |
| fsmithred | ok, so you'll feel like you came home | 19:07 |
| nu2this | cool! thanks! yes... that's what I'm looking for. not other issues to watch out for upon return? | 19:08 |
| fsmithred | except we put non-free drivers on the installer isos and in the live isos | 19:08 |
| fsmithred | only install one desktop environment | 19:09 |
| nu2this | any improvements on setting up printers? or still cups? | 19:09 |
| fsmithred | it's not like the old days when you could have several | 19:09 |
| fsmithred | cups | 19:09 |
| fsmithred | looks the same to me | 19:09 |
| fsmithred | printer setup is simple. | 19:09 |
| nu2this | copy that | 19:09 |
| fsmithred | I dread the day my lpt printer dies and I have to use usb | 19:09 |
| nu2this | lol | 19:10 |
| fsmithred | we fork around 200 packages from debian to remove systemd deps | 19:10 |
| fsmithred | the rest of debian repo gets merged with our few packages and it looks like we have 60,000 | 19:10 |
| fsmithred | don't put debian repos in sources.list. Just use devuan. | 19:11 |
| fsmithred | and we're nicer to you in irc | 19:11 |
| fsmithred | that's what I keep hearing, anyway | 19:11 |
| nu2this | how about using some of kali repos (previously backtrack) | 19:11 |
| fsmithred | officially we recommend against using third-party repos | 19:12 |
| fsmithred | there are unknowns | 19:12 |
| nu2this | i used to mess with backtrack as well, but got away as based on debian | 19:12 |
| onefang | apt install forensics-all | 19:12 |
| nu2this | understood | 19:12 |
| fsmithred | that said, I made a frankenstein refracta-kali live iso last year | 19:13 |
| nu2this | how'd that turn out? | 19:13 |
| fsmithred | some script you can run to add kali | 19:13 |
| fsmithred | it works, I guess. It boots, I mean. | 19:13 |
| fsmithred | I have no idea how to use all those tools. | 19:13 |
| nu2this | nor do i | 19:13 |
| fsmithred | and I'm not sure I got all of them. | 19:13 |
| nu2this | but it was fun to learn | 19:13 |
| fsmithred | I have to remember the name | 19:13 |
| nu2this | and who knows what's changed over the last few years | 19:14 |
| nu2this | appreciate y'all | 19:16 |
| james1138 | Hello and question. I noticed that I cannot access the Devuan forum. Is it me or the forum?? Nothing urgent - just wanted to know. | 19:17 |
| fsmithred | it's you. I'm reading it now. | 19:18 |
| james1138 | ok | 19:18 |
| fsmithred | nu2 | 19:20 |
| fsmithred | shit | 19:20 |
| fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3696 | 19:20 |
| fsmithred | If nu2this comes back, point him to that thread ^^^ | 19:20 |
| adilix | hi all | 19:20 |
| fsmithred | that's kali-devuan merge | 19:21 |
| fsmithred | hi | 19:21 |
| adilix | just installed the 3.1 version , my question is, i choosed syv for init at installation, but i have some systemd directories like /etc/systemd and /usr/lib/systemd, can i delete those directories or do i need them | 19:22 |
| fsmithred | they aren't used. I'm pretty sure you can delete them, but not certain. | 19:23 |
| james1138 | Humm. I am using Vivaldi (kinda like Chrome) - but getting a blank page http://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=8 | 19:23 |
| fsmithred | if you run systemd, you can delete init scripts, but I don't think you should. Not necessarily for technical reasons. | 19:23 |
| adilix | ok , just deleted them and rebooted without any issues | 19:23 |
| adilix | any othe systemd directories in the system? | 19:24 |
| fsmithred | maybe. THere's a sticky thread at the forum about it | 19:24 |
| adilix | have you any link? | 19:24 |
| fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1925 | 19:25 |
| adilix | i never used systemd , i dont like it | 19:25 |
| fsmithred | I tried it briefly and was not impressed. | 19:25 |
| onefang | We removed systemd and friends, but it still left dirty foot prints laying around. You can ignore them. | 19:26 |
| adilix | thx for the link | 19:26 |
| adilix | yeah i realized it, it just bothers me | 19:28 |
| fsmithred | some may get replaced with package upgrades | 19:28 |
| fsmithred | I like having them there | 19:28 |
| fsmithred | I believe by some kind of sympathetic magic that keeping them will help prevent debian package maintainers from dropping init scripts from packages. | 19:29 |
| adilix | hmm it just works , deleted all the files | 19:35 |
| adilix | let me test the new version , cya bb and thx | 19:46 |
| user____ | bluez-tools: bt-device -s $paired_mac SP -> "Failed to start SDP discovery. Please make sure you have bluez-utils installed on your system." | 21:36 |
| user____ | Beowulf | 21:37 |
| user____ | bluetoothd runs with --compat option | 21:37 |
| user____ | sdptool does find the service (obviously using SDP discovery) | 21:37 |
| user____ | sdptool is in package bluez | 21:38 |
| user____ | things which almost work and fail with a "success" message drive me NUTS | 21:39 |
| user____ | hey, I left the windows world (hell) in the 1990s to get away from that. | 21:39 |
| gnarface | user____: got a second bluetooth device to try? i think it is possible for it to be a problem with just that one driver | 22:04 |
| sinner | howdy. | 22:13 |
| sinner | Is there an URL with devuan documentation? I seem unable to find it. | 22:14 |
| gnarface | SinnerP: what are you looking for, specifically? most the appropriate documentation is built-in. | 22:15 |
| SinnerP | gnarface, well, I'm new to Devuan, and I haven't used Linux in 6 years or so. So I'd like to know how to administer Devuan | 22:19 |
| gnarface | SinnerP: it's the same as debian wheezy | 22:19 |
| gnarface | SinnerP: for you, nothing should have changed | 22:19 |
| SinnerP | I used rpm-based distros in the past, if it's any help | 22:20 |
| gnarface | oh | 22:20 |
| SinnerP | yeah | 22:20 |
| SinnerP | RedHat, CentOS, SuSE, Mandriva... | 22:20 |
| gnarface | instead of yum or rpm you want to consult the man page of apt, apt-get, and apt-cache | 22:20 |
| gnarface | optionally you could use aptitude instead | 22:21 |
| gnarface | (apt-get and apt-cache will be installed by default though, aptitude might not) | 22:21 |
| SinnerP | aptitude? | 22:21 |
| gnarface | it's a later generation tool that tries to do conflict resolution | 22:22 |
| SinnerP | so, does it work?or is it just a tool in testing? | 22:22 |
| gnarface | it works. it has been in the repos for a few releases now. it just wasn't there since the beginning. this distro is really old. there's also a gui tool called synaptic | 22:23 |
| SinnerP | so, if I read documentation on debian wheezy, will it be basically the same as devuan beowulf? | 22:24 |
| gnarface | yea. there is some devuan-specific stuff somewhere but it is incomplete and largely redundant | 22:24 |
| gnarface | dev1galaxy.org might be a good place to look for help with common problems if nobody is answering here at the time though | 22:25 |
| SinnerP | thank you gnarface | 22:26 |
| gnarface | no problem | 22:26 |
| gnarface | if you want to look at the actaully devaun-specific stuff, it's here: https://git.devuan.org/ | 22:28 |
| gnarface | but i get the sense you're not trying to figure out how its built, just how to make it do what you did with redhat | 22:28 |
| SinnerP | exactly. | 22:29 |
| gnarface | for simple stuff, i can probably just tell you the answer faster than i can figure out where the official documentation is | 22:29 |
| SinnerP | I was surprised that vi wasn't installed by default. I didn't know how to exit nano | 22:29 |
| gnarface | heh | 22:29 |
| SinnerP | I knew the basics of apt, from reading usenet back then | 22:30 |
| gnarface | well, i think that's probably also different from redhat; depending on the installer you use and the choices you select, you can have almost nothing installed at first boot | 22:30 |
| gnarface | you can make a system that is capable of literally nothing, that would be capable of nothing installing extra packages, that only can't install extra packages because it is not capable of logging you in | 22:31 |
| SinnerP | and I know that devuan has no systemd; I've installed a few distros this weekend and I was flabbergasted, until I realized that all my problems wee systemd | 22:31 |
| gnarface | *nothing but installing extra packages... | 22:31 |
| gnarface | hah | 22:31 |
| SinnerP | well, I started with a desktop and went from there | 22:31 |
| gnarface | if you feel emotionally traumatized, feel free to vent in #devuan-offtopic | 22:32 |
| gnarface | be careful, there's a lot of other broken toys in there too | 22:32 |
| fsmithred | how did you not get vi? | 22:33 |
| gnarface | (i assume its just vim) | 22:33 |
| fsmithred | yeah, vim-tiny | 22:33 |
| SinnerP | well, I went to do visudo, and Igot stuck there for a minute | 22:34 |
| SinnerP | so I apt-get install vim | 22:34 |
| fsmithred | lol, you got nano for that | 22:34 |
| SinnerP | and changed the editor option | 22:34 |
| SinnerP | I got stuck in nano | 22:34 |
| SinnerP | never used it | 22:34 |
| fsmithred | fork of pico if you remember that | 22:35 |
| SinnerP | (Iknow) | 22:35 |
| SinnerP | yeah, pico, nano, never used them | 22:35 |
| SinnerP | I'm used to vi/vim/elvis | 22:35 |
| SinnerP | and mcedit lol | 22:35 |
| fsmithred | yeah, it's probably left out because it's pretty big | 22:35 |
| SinnerP | oh, my kb sucks. I's a beyond-cheap tiny usb kb | 22:36 |
| fsmithred | it gets more difficult with each release to fit stuff on a CD | 22:36 |
| SinnerP | I used the dvd and connected to online mirror for install | 22:37 |
| fsmithred | yeah, mirror is best | 22:37 |
| SinnerP | +1 | 22:37 |
| luser978 | gnarface: it's all about breakage in blutoothd giving up SDP support in favor of dbus based control. all related tools are affected. f.ex. there is no replacement for sdptool's ability to publish bt local services from cli. many more things. | 22:39 |
| gnarface | luser978: :( | 22:40 |
| luser978 | read the longish 1st answer | 22:46 |
| luser978 | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41290114/bluetooth-sdp-where-is-sdpd | 22:46 |
| luser978 | this is the equivalent of poetteringization | 22:47 |
| kiwi9 | I notice mention of apt-get ... have started using apt as default (4 less letters). Any reason to use a-g if u don't need a command apt doesn't have? | 22:48 |
| SinnerP | ttyl | 22:50 |
| fsmithred | kiwi9, I haven't noticed a difference. It's recommended not to use apt in scripts because the behavior might change. | 22:51 |
| fsmithred | I guess they don't feel like they're done yet. | 22:51 |
| n4dir | in #debian i never heard anyone of the old-schoolers or gurus complain about usage of apt. So i guess the answer is: No, no reason to not use apt instead of apt-get | 22:52 |
| luser978 | dbus must die. is there a dbus in freebsd? | 22:53 |
| debdog | prolly a bsdbus | 22:56 |
| onefang | You want to throw dbus under de bus? | 22:56 |
| luser978 | I want to throw it under itself | 22:57 |
| luser977 | I want to throw it under itself | 22:58 |
| fsmithred | you can run without it, but you have to give up a few things | 22:58 |
| luser977 | like what? high blood pressure? :) bring it! | 22:59 |
| fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2158 | 23:00 |
| onefang | Recursive vehicular destruction. Might not end well. | 23:00 |
| fsmithred | unless you can get it to collapse on itself like a star | 23:00 |
| onefang | dblackhole | 23:01 |
| onefang | I briefly thought about writing a smaller, lighter version, and calling it dcar. | 23:02 |
| luser977 | nice work @link fsmithred but no bt at all in it. blueman might/should work imo. my dbus allergy is bluetooth caused. | 23:06 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I know. I said you'd have to give up some things. | 23:07 |
| luser977 | :) | 23:07 |
| fsmithred | wait for dcar | 23:07 |
| luser977 | blueman from jessie is a possibility. dcar? | 23:08 |
| onefang | Damn, I'd have to give up synaptic. | 23:08 |
| luser977 | i hacked a cli bash bt script today, 50 loc to do what 5 loc should do. just to connect a script to a device w/o user fiddling. | 23:09 |
| luser977 | what is dcar fsmithred ? | 23:09 |
| fsmithred | scroll up to last thing onefang said | 23:10 |
| fsmithred | next to last | 23:11 |
| luser977 | ah. | 23:11 |
| fsmithred | luser977, it sounds like you might have the skills to fork bt | 23:12 |
| luser977 | Not really, but def provide some solution in some hacky way to keep it working "as expected". blueman is likely. looking at what *bsd is | 23:17 |
| luser977 | using for clues now. | 23:17 |
| plub | i see devuan has armhf target but i seem to be too retarded again (:() to debootstrap | 23:20 |
| plub | debootstrap ascii --arch armhf /dev32 http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ | 23:21 |
| plub | ascii, beowulf, ceres just end after | 23:21 |
| plub | I: Target architecture can be executed | 23:21 |
| plub | host is aarch64 | 23:21 |
| plub | debootstrap --arch=armhf sid /dev32 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ | 23:23 |
| plub | works though | 23:23 |
| rrq | compare the two lines you gave us | 23:25 |
| plub | oh hm | 23:26 |
| plub | thank you. i'll let myself out. | 23:27 |
| luser977 | blueman is not what I'm after. | 23:53 |
| luser977 | bt state in openbsd and freebsd is worse off than in linux imo | 23:54 |
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