mason | If dagal comes back, someone should note that it's not necessary - Devuan has beowulf-backports that'll work just fine if he wants ZFS via DKMS. | 00:10 |
---|---|---|
onefang | numzob: "mixing debian and devuan packages? that's a thing? does it work?" Devuan is mostly Debian packages, so yes that's a thing, and it works. As mason pointed out, you don't even have to do anything, that's just the way it is. | 00:14 |
fsmithred | and it works much better if you pull everything through our filter (devuan repo) | 00:24 |
fsmithred | unfiltered debian might not taste good | 00:25 |
Xenguy | > masons/install/&ed/ | 00:50 |
Xenguy | ^^ TIL why '&' always insists on being escaped in the target string of search/replace operations | 00:50 |
mason | Ah! Yes. :) | 00:51 |
Xenguy | Unless you are using it the way you did above. That's coooooooooooool : -) | 00:51 |
mason | I really like it. Unix has so much cool stuff in it... | 00:51 |
Xenguy | When I can still keep learning new tricks years (decades?) later, you know it's awesome | 00:52 |
mason | Agreed. | 00:54 |
Xenguy | "You are an endless maze of twisty passages..." | 00:55 |
mason | I've decided recently that a great source of learning Unix things is to watch what rrq does. | 00:55 |
numzob | :) | 00:55 |
Xenguy | I cannot disagree, and really, when learning anything really well, emulating the experts is good policy | 00:56 |
Xenguy | fsmithred: Way up-buffer you were mentioning aptitude's 'why' command, and I thought that was so cool that I just installed aptitude, which cost me a few seconds of time and 15 Mb of diskspace, *just* for that 1 command : -) | 01:00 |
Xenguy | Also read a very well written/explained article today on 'apt' syntax, and am going to start using it instead of apt-get and apt-cache for awhile, just for a test drive. | 01:02 |
numzob | turtles all the way down | 01:02 |
Xenguy | numzob: familiar with the phrase, but how does it apply here? | 01:06 |
numzob | when i first started with debian, i used the gui front end for package management, i forget what it was called. then eventually I moved to aptitude, the ncurse one... | 01:07 |
Xenguy | Aha, gotcha... | 01:08 |
numzob | then I moved to apt-get and apt cache, but i know there is dpkg and apt and it's still a bit confusing | 01:08 |
Xenguy | dselect I think | 01:08 |
onefang | Pressure is on you now rrq, you are a good example that others watch. B-) | 01:08 |
numzob | so i wonder, even now, what is the real package manager under everything | 01:08 |
Xenguy | That's the one I first started with | 01:09 |
mason | numzob: dselect? | 01:09 |
mason | dselect, Xenguy beat me to it | 01:09 |
mason | I used to use that. | 01:09 |
numzob | i didn't know that | 01:09 |
Xenguy | Actually took me a minute to remember its name; it's been awhile | 01:09 |
fsmithred | dpkg | 01:09 |
fsmithred | I do remember dselect | 01:10 |
Xenguy | People always complained about that tool, but I thought it worked fine | 01:10 |
fsmithred | that was my first exposure to installing debian after coming from suse and redhat | 01:12 |
fsmithred | anyway: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=511 | 01:12 |
mason | bbiab, dinner | 01:12 |
fsmithred | some nifty aptitude commands in that thread | 01:12 |
Xenguy | Interesting... | 01:13 |
Xenguy | I do recall deciding that aptitude and I were not going to be best friends when I saw the weird search syntax. Ghastly 8 -D | 01:14 |
fsmithred | yeah, that's why I posted it - so I could find it easily | 01:15 |
Xenguy | They say the syntax was inspired by mutt, which I used and loved, except for that aspect of it | 01:16 |
gabriel_ | is there a package to download the virtio windows drivers image? | 02:09 |
Xenguy | rodper45: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ <-- good site to search for, er, package info | 02:29 |
dagal | short update on my experiment installing Devuan's root on zfs: i got to install it all in zfs, but managed to mess up grub configuration because i'm a noob, so it won't boot yet | 02:49 |
dagal | 95% sure it's fixable, but will probably do it another day, kind of tired now | 02:50 |
gnarface | dagal: while you were gone someone mentioned you should just use the packages in beowulf-backports | 02:52 |
mason | dagal: 18:10 < mason> If dagal comes back, someone should note that it's not necessary - Devuan has beowulf-backports that'll work just fine if he wants ZFS via DKMS. | 02:53 |
dagal | i couldn't find zfs there, only the fuse version | 02:53 |
mason | dagal: As for GRUB, it can presumably read different sorts of ZFS, but I let my initramfs handle that, and park the initramfs either in my ESP (UEFI) or an MD-RAID1 /boot | 02:53 |
mason | dagal: https://bpa.st/RCKQ | 02:55 |
dagal | oh wow | 02:55 |
dagal | i could've sworn i've added the repo and searched | 02:55 |
mason | dagal: Did you use -t to turn it on for the search? | 02:56 |
dagal | no | 02:56 |
dagal | is it deprioritized by default? | 02:56 |
mason | And did you 'apt update' after adding it to your source.list? | 02:56 |
mason | yes, as it should be | 02:56 |
dagal | pretty sure i did | 02:56 |
mason | given what it is | 02:57 |
dagal | lemme check the log | 02:57 |
mason | FWIW, I think I'm going back to custom kernels here. | 02:57 |
dagal | yep, did update, but didn't search with -t | 02:58 |
mason | dagal: You probably want to keep it off by default. Safer. | 02:58 |
mason | You don't want random backports things creeping in unnoticed. | 02:58 |
dagal | maybe after installing I'll remove it | 02:59 |
dagal | but then again, VMs are for breaking :-) | 02:59 |
mason | dagal: Nah, keep it around for updates, but don't enable it explicitly. | 02:59 |
mason | FWIW, I tend not to use ZFS inside VMs. I use zvols as backing store for VMs, and I snapshot the zvols. | 03:02 |
dagal | oh i'm aware it's not very beneficial, it's just for playing around | 03:04 |
mason | Perfectly valid then. | 03:11 |
mason | If you have questions, I'm the local zealot. Also, there's #zfsonlinux that's very friendly. | 03:11 |
mason | dagal: ^ sorry, lagged and then replied without a highlight | 03:11 |
dagal | thanks a lot! | 03:13 |
e3d3 | 'apt upgrade' gives me the next error: dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of linux-image-amd64: | 08:14 |
e3d3 | linux-image-amd64 depends on linux-image-4.19.0-14-amd64; however: | 08:14 |
e3d3 | Package linux-image-4.19.0-14-amd64 is not configured yet. | 08:14 |
e3d3 | How should I handle this ? | 08:15 |
e3d3 | I'll ask later again. | 08:38 |
tuxd3v | hello to install emacs we have 2 packages in beowulf | 11:19 |
tuxd3v | emacs21 and emacs | 11:19 |
tuxd3v | what is the version we should choose? | 11:19 |
Joril | mmh it looks like emacs21 "is a transitional package to ensure that systems with emacs21 installed automatically upgrade to the new unversioned emacs-gtk package" | 11:49 |
tuxd3v | Joril, thanks | 17:39 |
tuxd3v | I just installed emacs package :) | 17:39 |
tuxd3v | it also installed emacs-gtk | 17:39 |
tuxd3v | My Idea.. I want to do online debigging on microcontrollers and I want a small ide like tool | 17:40 |
tuxd3v | debugging | 17:40 |
tuxd3v | I was able to do online debug in NetBeans IDE 8.2, but it has a poor interface | 17:41 |
tuxd3v | then I tried QTCreator, which seems to come with a gdbserver, I was following this tutorial: | 17:42 |
tuxd3v | https://www.bartslinger.com/cx-10-quadcopter/debugging-stm32-from-qtcreator/ | 17:42 |
tuxd3v | but I believe its in its infancy and I can't really create a project without being QT creator based in some way | 17:43 |
sunshavi | tuxd3v is an emacser? | 18:04 |
tuxd3v | no but I am trying to have a minimal development environment that permits me to do online debug of ARM cortex-m3 :) | 18:05 |
tuxd3v | emacs has some nice things, its here to test ;) | 18:05 |
sunshavi | congrats. Perhaps You would stick | 18:05 |
tuxd3v | :) | 18:07 |
tuxd3v | you are a emacser? | 18:08 |
sunshavi | Yes. Sir | 18:08 |
tuxd3v | it has plenty of features indeed :) | 18:08 |
tuxd3v | nice! | 18:08 |
sunshavi | emacs is not an editor. It happens to behave like one | 18:08 |
tuxd3v | I am trying to get online debugging via openoc | 18:09 |
tuxd3v | I can do it in the terminal with gdb also | 18:10 |
sunshavi | online debugging? it is done with screen i think | 18:10 |
tuxd3v | but I would like to do it in a aplication that show me registers and such of the mcu :) | 18:10 |
sunshavi | I meant running emacs within screen | 18:10 |
sunshavi | gdb runs inside emacs and gdb should be able of showing it | 18:11 |
sunshavi | with screen and a public IP You could share your complete emacs session. | 18:12 |
tuxd3v | interesting :) | 18:19 |
Beer | fsmithred I suppose you already know that, bt a quick tip once some mounts are bound somewhere else, like /dev or /run/udev. Using umount on those will back-propagate to the source and risk bricking a rescue (will leave remaining mounted resources unavalable while improperly mounted, like the root mountpoint). Using mount --ùake-rslve before unmounting is required | 18:41 |
Beer | mount --make-rslave* | 18:41 |
* Xenguy invites Beer to #devuan-www ... | 18:45 | |
* daimon suspects all the www devs have enough beer ;) | 18:45 | |
Xenguy | We need more! | 18:46 |
* daimon looks for vodka and scotch to invite ;D | 18:46 | |
Beer | (: | 18:47 |
fsmithred | you must have scrolled back a couple of days to come up with that. | 18:53 |
Beer | fsmithred It's actually the continuation of words exchanged a couple weeks ago, while my initial effort to convert tradicition partitions into LVM | 18:57 |
Beer | traditional* | 18:58 |
fsmithred | ouch | 18:58 |
Beer | Forgot already? :D | 18:58 |
fsmithred | sounds familiar | 18:58 |
Beer | Well, no "ouch" over here, yet: things went smoothly and the most important parts migrated successfully. | 18:59 |
Xenguy | fsmithred receives a lot of packets ... | 18:59 |
fsmithred | good think my ISP doesn't cap my downloads | 18:59 |
Xenguy | Unlimited FTW | 18:59 |
Beer | Now it's a game of communicating vessels to migrate the rest of the data on the remaining traditional mounts over to LVM | 18:59 |
Beer | WHen you come to think there are still supposedly-civilised parts of the world still using data caps :P | 19:00 |
fluffywolf | I have a 22GB/month cap, and $50/7GB if I go over it... | 19:26 |
fsmithred | must be close to that limit | 19:27 |
daimon | ouch | 19:27 |
daimon | fsmithred, do they give you a 'usage so far' | 19:27 |
fsmithred | I have no limit | 19:28 |
fsmithred | was commenting on the fact that fluffy ran off after stating those harsh limits | 19:28 |
daimon | ah | 19:28 |
daimon | oh wait I thought you was the same person | 19:28 |
daimon | sorry misread nicks | 19:28 |
fsmithred | lol | 19:28 |
daimon | ;) | 19:28 |
fsmithred | I do have some fur on my face | 19:29 |
fsmithred | but no pointy ears | 19:29 |
daimon | I found that most isps do not seem to log traffic on UDP/53 so was going to suggest popping a vpn through a provider and run openvpn on that port on the remote host :D | 19:29 |
daimon | works really well | 19:29 |
fsmithred | lol | 19:29 |
daimon | even works at hotels sometimes | 19:29 |
fluffywolf | no, that was xfce-terminal crashing yet again, which it seems to do after the beowulf upgrade. | 19:30 |
fsmithred | would that work in places that give you a web login page before they let you onto the internet? | 19:30 |
daimon | yeah UDP/32 is better known as 'nameserver' | 19:30 |
daimon | UDP/53 * | 19:30 |
fsmithred | xfce-terminal in xfce or in icewm? | 19:31 |
daimon | you need that to resolve things, so some do not tend to log it | 19:31 |
daimon | another little hack is using ICMP | 19:31 |
daimon | which is very rarely paid attention to | 19:31 |
fluffywolf | ... and again. | 19:32 |
fluffywolf | well, it's reproducable. | 19:32 |
fsmithred | are you in xfce desktop? | 19:32 |
fluffywolf | not only can I crash the terminal I'm poking at, but _every_ running terminal dies at once. | 19:32 |
fluffywolf | no. | 19:32 |
fsmithred | tried a different term? | 19:32 |
fluffywolf | that would be one way of avoiding bugs in xfce4-terminal, yes. :P | 19:33 |
fsmithred | I don't have any problems with xfce, but on some systems I use lxterminal | 19:33 |
fluffywolf | close a terminal that has something running in it. it pops up a dialog asking if you're sure you want to close it. now cover that dialog box, say by bring another window over it. poof, all terminals go away. | 19:33 |
fsmithred | I will try that | 19:34 |
fsmithred | but not while I'm building an iso | 19:34 |
fluffywolf | good idea. :P | 19:35 |
fluffywolf | it seems all xfce4-terminals you have open are part of a common process, since killing one kills every one of them. | 19:35 |
fsmithred | even with a kill command? | 19:35 |
daimon | pkill -9 ftw | 19:36 |
fsmithred | lol | 19:36 |
fsmithred | yeah, I opened another terminal but it did not give me another pid | 19:36 |
fluffywolf | ps only shows a single process no matter how many windows you have open. | 19:36 |
fluffywolf | a single-process model, combined with crashyness, is annoying. :P | 19:37 |
fsmithred | try starting it in a terminal :P | 19:39 |
fluffywolf | ... holy fuck there's a lot of xfce4-terminal crashes bugs in the tracker. heh. | 19:39 |
fluffywolf | apparantly their code is shit. there's no other explanation for that many crashing bugs. lol | 19:40 |
fsmithred | I recommend lxterminal | 19:40 |
fsmithred | it looks enough like xfce term that I have to go to Help, About to be sure which one I'm using | 19:40 |
fluffywolf | I used to use xterm, but it didn't handle fonts well on my high-dpi display. | 19:41 |
fluffywolf | although having 600 columns lets you see a lot at once, it's not too useful if you can't read them. :P | 19:41 |
fluffywolf | and the bigger fonts rendered poorly. | 19:41 |
fsmithred | 600 columns sound scary | 19:42 |
fluffywolf | well, I'm exagerating slightly... but 1920x1200 on a 15" display with the default xterm font was pretty small. | 19:43 |
fluffywolf | I probably just needed to dick around with xterm's font settings. | 19:45 |
jason1235 | do you know a possible android x11vnc for android, that can be piloted from linux using tigervnc or xtightvnc ? | 21:11 |
scoofy | how do i determine which is the currently loaded console font? | 22:42 |
fsmithred | cat /etc/default/console-setup | 22:43 |
scoofy | thanks! | 22:44 |
fsmithred | dpkg-reconfigure console-setup | 22:44 |
fsmithred | to change it | 22:44 |
Xenguy | Do you need to reboot to see config changes? | 22:44 |
scoofy | i can change it using 'setfont' without reboot any time. | 22:45 |
Xenguy | huh | 22:45 |
fsmithred | not if you reconfigure | 22:45 |
scoofy | maybe in a systemd distro you need a reboot :) | 22:45 |
fsmithred | but if you just edit the file, you'll need to restart | 22:45 |
scoofy | surely theres's some command to apply changes | 22:46 |
Xenguy | I tried the dpkg-reconfigure, and I didn't see any immediate changes, hence my original question | 22:46 |
fsmithred | maybe service console-setup.sh restart (not sure) | 22:46 |
scoofy | try 'setfont'. list of fonts in /usr/share/consolefonts | 22:46 |
Xenguy | All good info, thanks folks | 22:47 |
scoofy | 'setfont Uni3-Terminus12x6' | 22:47 |
fsmithred | Xenguy, I see changes when I switch from fixed font to vga | 22:47 |
scoofy | you can actually set different fonts for different TTYs. also different sizes! | 22:47 |
Xenguy | As soon as the dpkg-reconfigure routine is done? | 22:47 |
Xenguy | fsmithred: ^^ | 22:47 |
fsmithred | yes | 22:48 |
Xenguy | scoofy: sounds promising | 22:48 |
fsmithred | half a second later | 22:48 |
Xenguy | fsmithred: OK, maybe I just screwed up, I'll try again | 22:48 |
fsmithred | you must be root | 22:48 |
scoofy | 'ls /usr/share/consolefonts' | 22:48 |
Xenguy | Oh that might be it (can't remember ATM) | 22:48 |
scoofy | must be root! | 22:48 |
* Xenguy checks... | 22:49 | |
scoofy | but you can go back to unprivileged user. font stays the same in tty. but need to be root to change it | 22:49 |
Xenguy | Damn, can't find the thread, well I'll just try again RSN | 22:50 |
Xenguy | OK, so I *was* operating as root, check | 22:51 |
scoofy | i can set a small font for viewing logs, and set a larger font on another tty to chat | 22:51 |
Xenguy | I honestly would be happy if my console font was exactly the size it used to be by default in the yesteryears | 22:52 |
scoofy | using 'setfont' in each tty. it stays even if i log out. so it's per tty setting | 22:52 |
Xenguy | Some genius had to go mess with that | 22:52 |
Xenguy | If it ain't broke, don't fix it | 22:52 |
Xenguy | Good to know | 22:52 |
scoofy | there's like... VGA16... the traditional stuff | 22:52 |
scoofy | 'setfont Uni3-VGA16' | 22:52 |
scoofy | retro old-school IBM glyphs | 22:53 |
Xenguy | That's a-what I like! | 22:53 |
scoofy | you'll find it in .../consolefonts. or in console-setup. Try 'VGA' option there | 22:54 |
Xenguy | Shall do | 22:54 |
scoofy | VGA16 is nice. i use it currently | 22:54 |
Xenguy | Cool | 22:54 |
* Xenguy scurries off to finish check mirrors... | 22:54 | |
Xenguy | *checking | 22:54 |
scoofy | Fixed, Terminus, TerminusBold, TerminusBoldVGA, VGA <--- select VGA | 22:55 |
scoofy | the old-school glyphs from VGA video cards | 22:56 |
scoofy | select 8x16. 8x14 is good too. 8x8 is CGA font, looks messed | 22:58 |
Xenguy | You should create a forum post with all your findings on this | 22:58 |
Xenguy | I'm not sure how many people know or care about this stuff, but it's always good to have good documentation of stuff | 22:59 |
scoofy | Xenguy: i have editor access to the devuan wiki. i have not yet found out how to create a page, though | 23:16 |
Xenguy | scoofy: This one (but not the only) reason we love having golinux around | 23:18 |
Xenguy | She's able to clarify the status of things like that from her own neurons | 23:18 |
scoofy | if i manage to find out how, i could do some wiki page about console fonts | 23:19 |
fsmithred | scoofy, the existing wiki is deprecated | 23:21 |
fsmithred | a new one is in the works but not ready yet | 23:21 |
scoofy | okay, then i can make a page and migrate data to the new one later | 23:21 |
scoofy | putting up some words about various console bitmap fonts, couldn't hurt | 23:22 |
fsmithred | thanks | 23:26 |
fsmithred | you could post stuff on the forum for now | 23:26 |
Xenguy | Good idea | 23:29 |
scoofy | there's much more content in the forum. what's the reason for deprecating the wiki? | 23:30 |
Xenguy | .oO( Mediawiki is somehow not good enough? ) | 23:31 |
mason | MediaWiki doesn't do ACLs. It's really meant for everyone to edit it uncontrolled. | 23:32 |
Xenguy | Sounds ideal | 23:33 |
mason | There was a thread on DNG about it. Current favourite: Twiki. | 23:33 |
mason | Xenguy: Imagine the trolls on IRC, and now given them a place to display their art. | 23:33 |
Xenguy | Are you sure it hasn't got such a basic mechanism? | 23:33 |
mason | We want anyone to be able to get a user page, but that's different. | 23:33 |
Xenguy | It's hard to believe | 23:33 |
Xenguy | Wikipedia runs on it | 23:34 |
mason | Xenguy: You can glue them on but it's evidently not intended, and hence not smooth. | 23:34 |
scoofy | so now the central info source should be the forum? | 23:34 |
Xenguy | Not ideal | 23:34 |
Xenguy | scoofy: You know, it's kind of evolution in progress | 23:35 |
Xenguy | Things will change and continue to change | 23:35 |
Xenguy | But forum is very active ATM, and wiki is not | 23:35 |
scoofy | so... you think HOWTO setup console fonts, would be useful to have in the forum? | 23:35 |
Xenguy | There are lots of great pieces of documentation there, in the forum, so yes | 23:36 |
Xenguy | I think that once we get a good wiki going, it would be a natural place to copy some of the good forum pieces too, so it was all in one place | 23:51 |
fsmithred | yeah, that's the plan | 23:56 |
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