libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2021-03-10

krntzAnyone know if there's a 5.11 kernel package around?01:05
krntzor failing that, a fix/workaround for the cpufreq issues for ryzen 5000 series.. afaik it shouldn't be needed on 5.10 and lower but performance is  bad / behaves weirdly for me on 5.10 and stock 4.1901:08
gnarfacekrntz: dunno, recommend you stick with 5.901:11
krntzah, 5.9 is working better for zen3 then?01:11
gnarfacei dunno but it's working better for me on everything else01:11
gnarfaceeven backports and unstable only go up to 5.10-something01:12
gnarfaceand a day or two ago Linus himself said don't use 5.1201:12
Tenkawayou know 5.9 is EOL right?01:12
krntzah yeah, big corruption bug in 5.1201:12
onefang5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 in Beowulf, which I upgraded from 5.9 a little while age.  For my Ryzen Threadripper.01:13
Tenkawagnarface: Linus said dont use a specific 5.12-rc actually01:13
gnarfacemultiple reports of block device performance regressions on aarch64 in post-5.9 kernels, too01:13
onefang5.12 is still on rc2, it wont hit production for a while.01:13
Tenkawa5.11 is perfectly fine01:13
Tenkawait is the stable kernel branch01:14
onefang5.10 is the latest you'll get from Beowulf backports for now.01:14
krntzwell I wouldn't bother to use any rc like 5.12, but I suppose I can see what 5.9 offers.. though I do wonder what debians plan of support is for it without upstream LTS01:14
Tenkawaeven 5.10 is a LTS01:14
gnarfaceTenkawa: upstream's concept of "EOL" for kernels is fairly irrelevant to the discussion of which Debian kernel package to use01:14
krntzI guess they'll still provide fixes, either way01:15
gnarfacekrntz: i assume after 5.12 is patched up it'll end up in unstable01:15
gnarfacekrntz: at that point it should be easy to backport if necessary01:15
gnarfacekrntz: they're still not on 5.11 though so my advice to you is figure out what to do until then01:16
krntz5.10 not fixing my issue, but it's a weird one I'll admit.. not so much a benchmarkable thing, but visually appears not to perform well01:16
gnarfacei dont have any ryzen hardware here but 5.9 hasn't given me any problems01:16
krntzI'll give it a try, got it installed now. Thanks :)01:17
gnarfacemake sure your video drivers are still loading right, maybe you just ran into a dkms issue while changing kernels and didn't notice, or something like that01:17
gnarfacehappening lately with nvidia cards01:17
gnarfacei forget exactly what versions of stuff01:18
krntzah, tbh nvidia drivers have started to suck lately but yes it's nvidia01:18
krntzbut somehow a straight up switch from 3600x to 5600x has caused the issues01:18
gnarfacehmm, i could only speculate01:18
Tenkawakrntz: yeah check lsmod and make sure its not loading nouveau01:19
gnarfacebut if you switched from a CPU that was older than your motherboard to a CPU that is newer than your motherboard, go check for BIOS updates01:19
gnarfacecould be a memory/clock speed issue too01:19
krntzyeah I know how you mean, it seems there has been a regression, and a sign that 5.11 not only fixes it but boosts perf up to 6% according to moronix, so I guess there are some teething issues left01:19
krntzeven barring the regression I mean01:20
krntzyeah, been keeping it patched up to latest agesa version. Anyway I best go reboot this into 5.9, thanks for the infos01:20
klvncwell, seems a bit nippier now at any rate :)01:28
krntzthat'll teach me to use hardware that's only been out a few months:P  especially AMD who are sucking at supporting cpu rn01:29
krntziirc their answer to zen2 issues was simply "We recommend Windows 10."01:30
gnarfacekrntz: i think it'll probably be fine in a couple months01:31
gnarfacekrntz: demand is through the roof on that hardware01:31
krntzyeah likely, it's apparently fine on 5.1101:31
onefangFor what it's worth both Linus Torvalds and Greg Hartman use AMD Ryzen Threadrippers.  I designed my new super desktop similar to theirs.01:31
krntzand supply is low yeah.. I had to check many sites to find stock01:31
gnarfaceyea, microsoft probably won't scramble to do anything, but the kernel developers themselves will want to fix it just to get it out of their way01:32
krntzwell threadripper is insanely expensive, though I'd use it if I was happy to stay with one hardware vendor for a while01:34
onefangI know, I spent 11 grand on this system.  lol01:35
krntzhaha wow, that's massive. Maxed out the ram I take it.. personally I'm buying more like entry level gaming hw, that way I can easily justify swapping stuff when some new performance killing hw security bug comes out again.. though I must admit, I've dodged many bullets getting away from intel01:36
numzob11k on one compueter ... yikes01:38
numzobmust be one hell of a system01:38
krntzit would be great for content creation, I'd assume..01:39
onefangAMD Threadripper 3990X, MSI Creator TRX40 mobo, G.Skill Trident Z Neo 256 GB, Sapphire Radeon RX 5600 XT BE 6 GB PULSE graphics card, Seagate FireCuda 520 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME SSD, be quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 1500W, 80 PLUS Titanium, ...01:39
onefangSeagate Ironwolf Pro 16 TB I added later.01:39
numzob256 gig of ram?  wow!01:40
* numzob falls over01:40
onefangI do OpenSim 3D virtual world development.  And other things.01:40
krntzgraphic designer?01:40
krntzah I dunno what that is, but still.. sounds along the right lines for your setup01:41
onefangProgrammer and sysadmin.01:41
onefangOpenSim is an open source rewrite of the Second Life server software.  If you still don't know what that is, think social WoW, or a much higher resolution Minecraft.  lol01:43
* numzob tried second life ... hated it. control scheme made m carpal tunnel scream01:44
krntzlately I think we're kind of pushed into a corner with hardware.. much like the systemd situation, e.g features no sane person wants are no longer optional01:44
onefanghttp://grid.infinitegrid.org:8002/web/SledjHamr.png for an example.01:45
krntzah01:46
onefangThough I took that photo on my old desktop, if I took it today it would look better.  lol01:47
krntzyeah I thought it looked a little low res :p01:51
kreyren<tuxd3v "Krey, what says 'lsmod|grep nouv"> http://ix.io/2SiJ04:04
kreyren> [    31.302] (EE) modeset(0): glamor initialization failed04:14
kreyren> [    31.967] (II) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI2 capable04:14
kreyrenthis is for the nouveau issue on devuan.. nouveau highlighted these entries in log assuming permission issue with the way devuan handles systemd compatibility04:15
kreyren> anyways, debian sadly patches Xorg to explicitly prefer using modesetting for nvidia GPUs newer than nv50 or so04:15
gnarfacehard to say until you blacklist nouveau04:15
gnarfacebut for the permission issue you just need to be in the "video" group04:16
gnarfacekreyren: oh sorry, you're not having the same issue as krntz, i was confused.  yea, just make sure you're in the video group04:18
kreyrenkreyren@dreamon:~$ groups04:18
kreyrenkreyren cdrom floppy sudo audio dip video plugdev netdev scanner lpadmin04:18
gnarface(and relog)04:18
kreyreni am04:18
gnarfacenouveau might not support all hardware right; you've seen this, right? https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/FeatureMatrix.html04:19
gnarfacei wonder if you're missing mesa packages04:20
gnarfacelibglx or something perhaps?04:20
gnarfaceor libgl1?04:20
gnarfaceit's a common problem with fresh installs04:20
gnarfacedpkg -l |grep libgl04:20
kreyren<gnarface "nouveau might not support all ha"> yes was told that:04:20
kreyrenideally if you could join #nouveau ?04:21
kreyren<gnarface "i wonder if you're missing mesa "> kreyren@dreamon:~$ apt list --installed mesa04:21
gnarfaceno, i'm never going back there, if they can't help you i certainly can't04:21
gnarfacemissing libgl1-mesa-glx seems to be a common issue though04:22
kreyren> [    3.930994] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: firmware: failed to load nvidia/gm204/acr/bl.bin (-2)04:22
kreyren> [    3.930998] firmware_class: See https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware for information about missing firmware04:22
gnarfacei thought nouveau only needed that firmware for video decoding04:22
kreyrenwas told that mesa is next issues first it should fix the kernel not having access to the gPU?04:23
gnarfacekernel not having access to the GPU??? are they saying you need the firmware for that? because the only thing i knew of that could cause that other than a physical power issue (or hardware damage) would be needing to specify a pci id in the xorg.conf because auto-detect is failing for whatever weird reason04:24
gnarfaceyou might get better behavior out of the backports kernel...04:24
kreyrenyes it seems that i need a firmware for it04:24
kreyrenO.o04:25
gnarfacehmm, that's a new one to me04:25
gnarfaceso they're saying you need to follow that wiki page and cut the firmware out of the right version of the official nvidia installer or something?04:26
kreyren> kernel can access the GPU just fine04:26
kreyren> just doesn't expose acceleration without firwmare.04:26
gnarfacehmm, i wonder if they're giving you a goose chase04:26
kreyren> firmware-misc-nonfree is the specific package w/ the blobs.  firmware-linux and friends might get it via dep, unsure04:26
gnarfacethere's newer nvidia hardware out there for which you simply can't do this, because it requires it to be signed by some nvidia key04:26
gnarfaceoh04:27
gnarfacewell did you try installing that package?04:27
kreyren<gnarface "there's newer nvidia hardware ou"> that applies for pascal+ this is maxwell afaik04:27
gnarfacei didn't think there was any nvidia stuff in there04:27
kreyrenthis GPU worked great on nouveau before04:27
gnarfaceoh04:27
gnarfaceso is your question just about how to enable non-free?04:27
kreyren(+- 115% of proprietary driver in terms of performance)04:27
kreyren<gnarface "so is your question just about h"> well ideally without non-free but apparently i need it for video accel?04:28
gnarfaceyes04:28
gnarfacekreyren: read the notes on this page: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html04:29
kreyren<gnarface "Krey: read the notes on this pag"> did already04:30
* kreyren is rebooting with the firmware04:30
kreyrenThe firmware fixed the issue04:34
kreyren^-^04:34
kreyrenthanks for help04:34
gnarfacenp04:35
kreyrenSo i have the dGPU working on nouveau, but now it unloaded the iGPU diver  and apps like element-desktop are getting super slow now x.x05:00
kreyrenhow can i make it to use iGPU for desktop and dGPU for specified applications e.g. using DRI_Prime=105:00
gnarfacei think you can do it on a per-program basis just like "DRI_PRIME=1 ioquake3"05:01
gnarfaceor whatever05:01
kreyrenunable the iGPU is not loaded05:01
gnarfacehmmm05:01
gnarfacenot sure then actually, maybe you'd have to set up your xorg.conf to load them both05:01
kreyren_ping05:01
kreyren_devuan doesn't seem to have any xorg.conf by default05:02
kreyren_devuan doesn't seem to know05:03
kreyren_ehh wrong chat05:03
alvmorning all09:49
alvhow is the state of chimaera ?? it's good time to switch from beowulf ???09:50
parintehelo. do you know how to add devuan on a multiboot usb stick with yumi?10:15
gordonDrogonanyone tried to upgrade/migrate a Debian Stretch directly to Devuan Beowolf? I have a VPS running Stretch (sans systemd) and the hosts don't have a Devuan image, so ... Brave enough to just edit /etc/apt/sources.list and go for it?10:23
gordonDrogonI don't have anything to lose though - it's not doing anything special, so if I have to re-install from the host then it's no big deal other than some time...10:24
JorilgordonDrogon: maybe it would be safer doing a Stretch -> Devuan ASCII -> Devuan Beowulf10:31
gordonDrogonHm. possibly!10:31
gordonDrogonI'll give it a go later today when I get back in... :)10:32
Jorilactually, there's https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/stretch-to-beowulf.html10:32
Joril(just found out :D )10:32
parinteit gives an error before booting devuan 3.1.0, added on usb with yumi multiboot: file for drive emulation must be in one contiguous disk area (grub4dos)10:40
xinomilohave you tried ventoy multiboot? haven't used it in a while, but remember it booted ok..10:44
parinteand stops booting... maybe there is onother way to copy the iso to multiboot usb (with yumi) or wait for un update? we'll try ventoy. thank you10:48
linearaindevuan-offtopic11:26
gnarfacealv: people are doing it but i am still recommending not to11:26
kreyren10.48 GB of devuan torrent seeded 3.78 ^-^12:57
gordonDrogonwell, it failed. Debian stretch -> Devian ASCII. I suspect it might have been the kernel. I'll see if I can pin that so it's not upgraded ...15:36
djphwhat's "Devian" gordonDrogon ?15:40
djphnew OS for Ruby?15:40
gordonDrogonno, ust a typo for Devuan.15:41
djphaw15:41
gordonDrogonmaking my Ruby SBC run Devuan would be a challenge indeed!15:41
djphJust a bit. Don't think there's a linux kernel that supports the 650215:42
gordonDrogonnor the '816.15:44
gordonDrogonlooks like I've broken the VPS again though. *sigh* maybe I ought to just find a VPS host that support Devuan natively.15:44
MinceRDeviant GNU/Linux15:54
sadsnorkThe mirror walkthrough (dated July 2019) http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt says that running a mirror requires about 50GB of disk space.  Is 50GB still a reasonable estimate?16:44
sadsnorkAnd since it looks like the only software required is rsync (to pull updates) and a web server (to provide download services), would it be possible to run a mirror on a VPS with say a single CPU, 0.5GB memory, 100GB disk space, and 100Mbit/Unmetered network?16:46
xinomiloyes, current allocation : ~33G  (checked own mirror...)16:46
sadsnorkExcellent, thanks xinomilo!16:46
xinomiloi'm running a mirror on vps with those exact specs also, iirc16:47
sadsnorkDo you mind if I ask how much it costs you?16:48
xinomiloi don't pay for it, it's kindly "donated" from work. we pay for a hetzner dedicated (~30e/month), and it's one of the vps hosted on that dedi.16:51
sadsnorkYour work rocks. :-)16:51
xinomilo"work" is actually a coop :) can't stand having a boss... :D16:53
sadsnorkNice!  PS: is it fair to say that an additional mirror (in Canada) is something the project would actually need right now?16:56
Tenkawasadsnork: I'd certainly like to see one (being about 200 miles south of the border)16:57
Tenkawalol :)16:57
xinomilonot in the mirror team, but yes, i think north america needs mirrors..16:58
sadsnorkLet's see what my VPS guy says then. :-)16:58
* Tenkawa would put up a USA mirror if there was a VPS here he trusted anymore16:58
Tenkawathe connectivity for most of the networks here has gone downhill16:59
tuxd3vI took a dive into https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html17:59
tuxd3vI used the driver: NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.13217:59
tuxd3vit changed and we can no longer extract all the firmware :(17:59
tuxd3vwhen we run: python2 extract_firmware.py18:00
tuxd3vit complains that we don't have file: NVIDIA-Linux-%s-%s/kernel/nv-kernel.o18:00
tuxd3vI used for the hack: NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o_binary18:01
tuxd3vit produced some files ls -l18:01
tuxd3vvuc*18:01
tuxd3vbut no nv* ones :(18:01
tuxd3vthis is the result of my hack:18:02
tuxd3vhttps://paste.debian.net/1188725/18:03
tuxd3vkreyren, does your hack produced same files?18:03
tuxd3vmine doesn produced the nv* ones :(18:03
Tenkawatuxd3v: have you tried the newer drivers? those are quite old18:08
TenkawaNVIDIA has released 5 or 6 major releases since those18:09
Tenkawaone of them specificly to address build issues if I remember correctly18:10
Tenkawatuxd3v: however in regard to those drivers... I did have a thought... have you tried running the extraction only routine first?18:13
Tenkawait does have a lot of that stiff packed into the archive18:14
Tenkawaer stuff18:14
Tenkawayep it appears the binaries are there18:15
TenkawaNVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-460.56/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o_binar18:15
Tenkawaoops missed the y on the end18:16
gordonDrogonTenkawa, devuan everywhere - except Pis - yet.18:28
gordonDrogonactually except my VPSs but they're debian without systemd18:29
gordonDrogoncurrently trying https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/migrate-to-ascii.html18:29
gordonDrogonwhich has mostly worked on a 'test' VPS I have with OVH but something isn't quite right and I can't remotely login, but I can KVM login although there kvm is somewhat sub-optimal via a web interface )-:18:30
Tenkawaahh.. my primary PI4 currently run development devuan18:32
tuxd3vgordonDrogon, Devuan is in a lot of PIs :)18:32
tuxd3vtake a look here: http://arm-files.devuan.org/18:33
gordonDrogontuxd3v, I know - I've just not had the time/energy to try it myself yet.18:33
gordonDrogonthanks.18:33
tuxd3v:)18:33
Tenkawatuxd3v: he and I know each other from over in the main rpi chan18:33
tuxd3vyou welcome :)18:33
gordonDrogonalso about to move house, so things here are somewhat strained - and will be for the next month or so.18:33
Tenkawaoh moving? good luck18:33
gordonDrogonthanks. been trying to move for ~18 months now...18:34
Tenkawahad that fun back in 2009 to my house... where I plan on being for a long long time18:34
gordonDrogoncurrent house just took a long time to sell - new house was agreed and under offer and will be sold in ~4 weeks.18:35
Tenkawa(or was it 2006.. i cant remember now)18:35
Tenkawatuxd3v: did you catch that above about getting those files from extracting the installer?18:36
gordonDrogonbeen here almsot 20 years now, hoping this will be the last move ...18:36
Tenkawatuxd3v: you can run a -x on the bundle to extract them18:36
TenkawagordonDrogon: I hear you18:36
tuxd3vTenkawa, I did the: 'sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132.run --extract-only' first :918:36
tuxd3v:)18:36
gordonDrogonso once I move, I might put devuan on a Pi and release wiringPi for that platform... only.18:37
Tenkawatuxd3v: yeah those files are extremely useful but do need renamed18:37
tuxd3vI didn't renamed18:37
tuxd3vacording to the documentation: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html18:37
Tenkawathe .o and .h you would for these:18:38
tuxd3vbut the NVIDIA-Linux-%s-%s/kernel/nv-kernel.o doesn't exist :/18:38
Tenkawa/home/na/Downloads/NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-460.56/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o_binary18:38
tuxd3vso I went with ''NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o_binary'18:38
Tenkawabecause its not renamed18:39
tuxd3vthe python2 script is old18:39
Tenkawaits to make sure they dont blow away the old files too18:39
Tenkawaits a safety mechanism18:39
tuxd3vand it needs some adjustments, I made some, but, don't know if the final result was ok, since I only got fuc`files and none nv* :/18:40
TenkawaNVIDIA's installer directory leaves a LOT to be desired on structure18:40
tuxd3vbut the documentation states that there are nv* firmware files as well as nv* files too18:40
Tenkawastructure/organization18:40
tuxd3vso this is what I got: https://paste.debian.net/1188725/18:41
tuxd3vI needed to go with 390.132, because I am on i686 :)18:42
tuxd3vand for i686 Nvidia doesn't privide the .run extratable installers :/18:42
tuxd3vthey only provide for amd6418:42
Tenkawareally?18:43
Tenkawaodd18:43
tuxd3vyeah, so I only got fuc* files, not nv* ones... I don't know if that is OK18:44
tuxd3v?18:44
Tenkawayeah.. nvidia has no standalone fw files18:45
Tenkawajust checked18:45
Tenkawaat least not in this repo (or on this running GTX box)18:46
tuxd3vwhat files does you have in '/lib/firmware/nouveau'18:46
tuxd3v?18:46
Tenkawanone18:47
Tenkawathats not nvidia18:47
Tenkawathats mainline18:47
Tenkawathats "kernel.org"18:47
Tenkawanot nvidia(tm)18:48
tuxd3vwait. I am talking about getting nouveau having video aceleration, and for that I believe you need the '/lib/firmware/nouveau' files18:48
tuxd3vpython2 extract_firmware.py18:49
Tenkawalsmod | grep nvidia| wc -l  ; lsmod | grep nouveau| wc -l18:49
Tenkawa918:49
Tenkawa018:49
tuxd3vdoes exactly that, it goes to the .run installer folders(after extracted), and get out from the bynaries the firmware files..18:49
Tenkawaif you are using the installer you "cant" use nouveay18:50
Tenkawaer nouveau18:50
tuxd3vTenkawa, so you have the Closed source driver installed! :)18:50
Tenkawathey are mutually exclusive18:50
Tenkawait even tells you that when you try to install it18:50
Tenkawa(with the newer installers)18:50
tuxd3vI want to use nouveau, because of issues with firefox..18:51
Tenkawait will blacklist nouveau18:51
nemotuxd3v: what issues?18:51
Tenkawafirefox issue?18:51
tuxd3vno, I don't want to blacklist, I want to use nouveau!18:51
Tenkawayeah.. not aware of these18:51
nemotuxd3v: I mean, I ditched nvidia at home, but when I was on it I had no firefox issues18:51
nemoeither in nouveau or nvidia driver18:51
nemogames was another matter18:51
nemothat situation accurate as of last year18:52
nemobut was that way for like... a decade18:52
tuxd3vbut to have 3d acell plus aceleration for video playback, you need the firmware in '/lib/firmware/nouveau'18:52
* Tenkawa uses steam to play games with the proprietary games weekly on his linux box18:52
nemoTenkawa: oh sure. I have tons of GoG and Steam games that play fine on linux. now under AMD and before under nvidia18:52
Tenkawawhat firmware?18:52
* Tenkawa has no seperate fw blobs/clobs18:53
nemotuxd3v: 3d accel should work with both nouveau and proprietary blob just fine18:53
nemotuxd3v: but you're right you need their firmware18:53
tuxd3vbut to get the '/lib/firmware/nouveau' you need to get the Closed source driver, and extract the firmware files needed to get video aceleration... Got it?18:53
tuxd3v:)18:53
nemotuxd3v: that last step. no.18:53
nemotuxd3v: that should be distro bundled18:53
Tenkawanemo: exactly18:53
nemotuxd3v: both nvidia and amd firmware is now debian packages, to my knowledge18:54
Tenkawaits a dri thing18:54
nemoI could be wrong18:54
tuxd3vits in the Documentation... read the Firmware Section: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html18:54
nemomy familiarity w/ firmware situation on nvidia is not up to date. it's true for amd18:54
nemotuxd3v: documentation doesn't have any information about distros18:54
nemotuxd3v: distros can package whatever they like18:54
nemolaw permitting18:54
nemohell. even for law-restricted stuff there's silly hacks like how distros get dvd decryption to work18:55
tuxd3vDebian doesn't provide the firmware for nvidia as a separate package because the license of closed drivers doesn't permit it..18:55
nemotuxd3v: that's a very broad statement. debian absolutely provides closed source firmware for amd...18:55
tuxd3vso you need to extract it from the .run installer.. got it?18:55
nemoI have it installed right now18:55
nemoI don't know about the nvidia situation18:56
nemotuxd3v: please. relax a bit18:56
nemohttps://packages.gentoo.org/packages/sys-firmware/nvidia-firmware18:56
nemolooked this up on my gentoo system18:56
nemochecking for debian now18:56
tuxd3vNo it doesn't for Nvidia, because the Nvidia License expliciclty _forbids_ them todo so..18:56
Tenkawanemo: he is correct.. it "does" need to be installed.. however it isnt nouveau he wants18:56
nemoapt install nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree18:56
tuxd3vyes Gentoo has it, but debian doesn't18:57
nemohttps://wiki.debian.org/fr/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers18:57
nemo"firmware-misc-nonfree" seems to be the key one18:57
nemoer. sorry for "fr" it defaults to my browser language18:57
tuxd3vno18:57
nemohttps://wiki.debian.org//NvidiaGraphicsDrivers18:57
Tenkawaunless he wants the non-proprietary one thats missing  features18:57
nemoTenkawa: ok18:57
nemoTenkawa: yeah. like I said, I ditched nvidia, so unfamiliar.18:58
nemofair 'nuff. what features is it missing?18:58
nemoTenkawa: what's missing in the AMD one, I think, is only OpenCL18:58
nemoand I don't care about that18:58
Tenkawanemo: some levels of hardware rendering/etc18:58
tuxd3vTenkawa, yes I want to opensource one, the Nouveau :)18:58
nemoTenkawa: ok, but that doesn't eliminate *all* 3d18:58
nemowhich was his starting statement18:58
nemoTenkawa: also. seems they do have non-free nvidia firmware18:58
nemoso it might suffice for his gaming. certainly for firefox18:59
Tenkawatuxd3v: ok then you dont need "ANY" of the NVID(run stuff18:59
nemoI never had any issues w/ firefox acceleration which is not that complex18:59
Tenkawaer *run18:59
nemomaybe for firefox webrender. might need it for that. it does a lot on the GPU. but that's not critical18:59
tuxd3vTenkawa, you need to extract the firmware---18:59
tuxd3vonly to extract the firmware, and them delete the run files..18:59
Tenkawano.. its in debian non-free now.. there "is" no firmware19:00
tuxd3vTenkawa, no man tat's impossible19:00
Tenkawathere..I found it19:01
Tenkawafirmware-misc-nonfree19:01
TenkawaI think nemo said it too19:02
Tenkawaits in that pkg19:02
tuxd3vNo that package can't have nvidia firmware.. again the Nvidia license forbits its distribution apart from the installer..19:02
nemotuxd3v: I don't know how distro implements it, but it is entirely possible that they use a handoff mechanism19:03
Tenkawa"Read Carefully"19:03
nemotuxd3v: as was done with DVD DeCSS19:03
TenkawaUpdate the list of available packages, then we can install the nvidia-driver package, plus the necessary firmware:19:03
Tenkawa# apt update # apt install nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree19:03
Tenkawafrom the wiki19:03
iv4nshm4k0vtuxd3v: Is Nvidia license available somewhere on the Web? URI?19:03
nemotuxd3v: linux machines read all movies on DVDs today using a legally dubious mechanism, but it is all automagical from user's perspective ☺19:03
Tenkawathat seems fairly clear to me19:03
tuxd3vnemo don't compare things that have nothing in commun :)19:04
nemotuxd3v: … why are you so aggressive?19:04
nemothe parallel here is. legal restrictions on distribution19:04
Tenkawawe are just trying to help tuxd3v..19:04
nemoanother example is ms core font distribution in linux19:04
nemoor wine provisioning of dlls19:04
nemoOI19:04
nemoI'm just saying it *can* be done. so maybe check out that package instead of flat out saying no19:04
tuxd3vnemo, I am not agressive... I am drinking my coffe, and smoking a lot , so I am fine :)19:04
nemoif we're wrong. oh well19:05
nemoit can't hurt to try19:05
tuxd3vin a peace state of midn :)19:05
tuxd3vmind*19:05
nemooh well. whatev. I should get back to work19:05
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: My understanding was that all the .dlls that are part of Wine are free software reimplementations of proprietary MS interfaces.19:05
Tenkawaiv4nshm4k0v: yep19:05
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: the ones bundled. but if you wanna do anything useful, you pretty much need to fire up winetricks19:05
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: wine app db is basically 90% that 😉19:06
Tenkawanemo: and that doesnt work 1/2 the time lol19:06
nemo"run X in winetricks to get Y running"19:06
nemoTenkawa: eh.. my success rate has been pretty good lately19:06
Tenkawahelp then!!!!19:06
Tenkawalo19:06
Tenkawal19:06
Tenkawaj/k19:06
nemoTenkawa: hehe. maybe start w/ non-distro wine 😉 although chimaera's seems to be good19:06
* Tenkawa remembers when wine was such a novelty19:07
nemoTenkawa: then follow suggestions in winetricks.19:07
nemocombination works well19:07
nemoTenkawa: proton is an option now too, but ofc they just leached off wine's efforts19:07
nemoso the 2 are very similar19:07
nemobut maybe nicer bundling...19:07
Tenkawabtw anyone got the bug search url handy for devuan?19:08
TenkawaI think i found a broke pkg and wanted to see if anyone has reported it yet19:08
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: If by "anything useful" you mean something like "Direct X," I'm afraid I'm not interested anyway.  My interest in anything Microsoft has pretty much waned about the time they've announced there'd be no more versions of MS-DOS.19:08
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: it's not just directx19:08
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: it's ummm one moment19:08
Tenkawaiv4nshm4k0v: I'll give them credit.. WSL2 has been pretty nifty19:09
nemothere's this one package that like everything needs ☺19:09
nemoblanking on the name of it 'cause I don't really use wine as much19:09
nemoliterally only 2 things I run in it right now. and they are interrelated.19:09
nemomy daughter really really really wanted to play "untitled goose" and it was only available on that stupid awful windows-only software store19:09
* Tenkawa has been testing unstable this morning and apt-file found broke dependencies19:09
nemothe epic one19:10
nemoalthough I see it is on steam now doh19:10
nemospent a lot of time getting it and the epic store running on linux19:10
Tenkawaepic makes me grumble19:10
Tenkawasteam is at least consistent19:10
nemoTenkawa: my general strategy for games is to try GoG first19:11
nemothen fallback to Steam19:11
nemooccasionally with a digression through Humble Bundle, which is usually steam codes19:11
Tenkawathis guy: libapt-pkg6.0 is too far out of date right now for apt-file lol19:11
iv4nshm4k0v+1 for GOG from me.  My general startegy for software is to use non-free software rarely, and DRM never.19:12
nemoTenkawa: WRT bug reporting.. dunno. https://git.devuan.org/explore/repos19:13
Tenkawathanks19:13
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: yeah. I was mostly fine w/ FOSS gaming previously19:13
nemoTenkawa: that's just a guess 😉19:13
nemoTenkawa: but I notice the different repos have issue trackers19:13
TenkawaI'll give it time since this is just the dev branch19:13
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: the issue is the kids have different gaming tastes from me.  *I* like Hedgewars... *they* want like narrative driven puzzle games.  And there's only a few FOSS options there19:14
TenkawaI ran a manual apt build on it to fix the dependency for now19:14
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: fortunately their game preferences are, at least, cheap ☺19:14
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: I'm less concerned with non-free games than with using non-free software "in production environment," so to say.  As long as a game can be well-isolated, it's not that much harm IMO even if it's non-free.19:15
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: well... I like "voting with my wallet" where possible. and GoG is definitely less-bad than steam19:16
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: but heck. I'm not even a fan of what snap/flatpak are doing to linux ecosystem, so a ton of non-free is not much better ☺19:16
nemowell. even worse19:16
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: I'm not really isolating anything though. apart from separate user. but then, it's just the family's gaming PC19:17
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: GOG games do not use DRM, and therefore are ought to run in non-networked environment (or at least non-Internet) just as well.  At the very least, they don't infringe on one's privacy.19:17
nemoyeah19:17
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: soooo wish I'd bought Stardew Valley on GoG - didn't realise Steam was so stupid about that at the time.19:18
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: not to mention, their whole DB thing is so awful if you want to run same game from 2 accounts on a machine. in my case, from my account vs family gaming one depending on who was active. not even at same time. couldn't find any reasonable way to even dedupe the terabytes of data19:19
nemoeven with hardlinks19:19
nemoall I managed to do was force redownload of everything ☹19:19
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: Some sort of encryption?  (Or just lack of a deduplicating FS, such as Btrfs?)19:20
iv4nshm4k0vFWIW, at this point, pretty much the only non-free software that we cannot ditch is that embedded in our VNA.  E. g., we use Kicad for PCB layout, and a considerable amount of Gnuplot for modelling.19:20
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: not too sure how I messed it up, but my guess is it was the change in permissions needed for 2 accoutns to share over hardlinks maybe19:21
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: I'm thinking steam forcibly changed the permissions triggering redownload19:21
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: but after completely messing it up, I gave up on that19:21
nemoor yeah, some anticopy nonsense19:21
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: At some point Btrfs has learned to transparently deduplicate data on block level.  Like, when a block gets written that's identical in contents to some already occupied block on the FS, it gets CoWed instead.  (Though I've never tried this form of deduplication myself.)19:23
nemohm19:23
nemoI guess I could try transitioning to that. that would help19:24
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: I was kind of conservative in terms of my main filesystem19:24
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: I don't know if you ever looked at the linux filesystem fuzzing test report from a couple of years ago, but ext4 was far and away beyond the others in lack of flaws..19:24
nemoprobably due to more users/testers/developers19:24
nemoby orders of magnitude most likely19:24
tuxd3vTenkawa, <Tenkawa> because its not renamed19:25
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: I use Ext4 for my /home (as well as /, /var, /var/log and /var/cache), but I also use other filesystems when their respective features are needed.  Though that mostly means compression and Squashfs.19:25
tuxd3vdo you mean, I need to rename 'NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o_binary' to 'NVIDIA-Linux-x86-390.132/kernel/nvidia/nv-kernel.o'19:25
tuxd3v?19:25
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: yeah. not sure how much flexibility steam offers in install location19:26
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: a dedicated location would make me feel better about it19:26
nemoI mean, I've already redownloaded stuff twice due to their lameness19:26
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: once due to failed dedupe experiment, once due to renaming user.19:26
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: Doesn't it just use XDG_CACHE_HOME or something like that?  Does it at least use HOME (which can well be pointed somewhere else)?19:27
Tenkawatuxd3v: those are for the proprietary kernel module... just making sure you know that but yet19:27
Tenkawaer yes19:27
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: all I know is that all my games vanished after copying the user to the new PC I was setting up, and had to be redownloaded19:28
Tenkawathose have to be renamed then built into a module19:28
tuxd3vhumm. I will try that :)19:28
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: I'd changed user from nemo to family. but nothing else19:28
Tenkawathey should be copied to /lib/modules19:28
Tenkawalet me get full path19:29
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: FWIW, the winetricks I was blanking on that seems commonly needed is mfc40  "microsoft foundation classes"19:30
nemoit's even in the wine guide as an example19:30
nemoit must be needed a lot19:30
Tenkawafollow the template in /lib/modules/kernelversion19:30
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: vcrun2003 is often needed too. or other vcrun19:30
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: So long that the files themselves are identical (which they may be, but may be not due to encryption/DRM), Btrfs should at least take care that redownloaded data don't waste diskspace.  My point is that with XDG_ or HOME, it could be possible to still use Ext4 for the most valuable data under /home, and Btrfs for the rest.19:30
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: basically core libraries that wine probably had issues reverse engineering completely19:31
tuxd3vTenkawa, but that is to use the Closed source driver right?19:31
Tenkawayes19:32
Tenkawaanything you get from nvidia.com is going to be closed19:32
tuxd3vhehe :)19:32
tuxd3vyeah you right19:32
nemoTenkawa: I only really had issue running nouveau with Witcher. Everything else ran great... even stuff like, oh, Planetary Annihilation19:33
nemoTenkawa: and this was like 5 years ago19:33
nemoTenkawa: GL acceleration in firefox and other games and desktop ran fine19:33
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: To me, the most interesting part of Wine is being able to build software for W32/W64 (as in: winegcc) from the comfort of my GNU/Linux system.  Then perhaps testing software built that way.  I can't think of any particular W32/W64-only application I'd need Wine for right now.19:33
nemoTenkawa: nowdays under AMD the only thing I seem to be missing in the distro packages is OpenCL, which I'm not in a huge hurry to try yet19:33
nemoTenkawa: games run great19:33
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: main one we need, aside from that one kid's game, is MS Office19:34
tuxd3vTenkawa, well I needed only the firmware from those files to use in the opensource driver :)19:34
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: regrettably, that is still a core tool for document exchange ☹19:34
tuxd3vthe nouveau driver19:34
tuxd3vthis is the output of my extraction: https://paste.debian.net/1188746/19:34
tuxd3vits the same as previous one..19:35
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: regrettably people are not even ok with google docs. even if they were fine with google having access to doc content - they just seem to expect exchanging revisions with history to be docx files19:35
Tenkawayes.. you don't need firmware19:35
HumanG33khello how can i test reboot of a chroot (if i can)19:36
Tenkawawhats your lspci output?19:36
HumanG33kand if not how can i log boot process19:36
nemoreboot of a *chroot* ??19:36
TenkawaHumanG33k: before you enter the chroot start up a script session19:36
nemoTenkawa: oh. glad you understood that. I thought he was trying to "reboot" a chroot while keeping the linux env active19:37
HumanG33kbootlogd is already setup to yes but nothing in logfile19:37
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: I think I've used MS Office for something like ten times over the past ten years.  The folks around here tend to use Libreoffice instead when .docx is needed; though I was able to mostly go with plain HTMLs.19:37
Tenkawanemo: oddly it can be done19:37
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: lucky you19:37
Tenkawaespecially if you have kexec19:37
HumanG33kTenkawa, i can not really see how to do that19:37
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: lot of powerpoint and word docs over here, and I've tried using libreoffice, but thankfully I cross-checked in MS Office before handing off the result to anyone19:38
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: it's fine for basic layout but not for fiddly MS features unfortunately. or for several passes back and forth.19:38
TenkawaHumanG33k: just type script /home/youruser/somelogfile "your chrootcommand"19:38
nemoiv4nshm4k0v: shame MS successfully got docx declared a standard19:38
Tenkawait will log everything you do19:38
HumanG33kTenkawa, i think i miss explain.19:39
Tenkawaonce you exit the chroot completely the script finishes19:39
iv4nshm4k0vnemo: Well, there's a number of *TeX fans around where I work...19:39
Tenkawaoh ok19:39
HumanG33ka distant server not start19:39
Tenkawaiv4nshm4k0v: still?19:40
Tenkawawow19:40
HumanG33kon the disk but the rescue start by the provider work19:40
HumanG33kso i chroot on it to check bootlog but nothing19:40
TenkawaHumanG33k: checking syslog/messages too I assume?19:40
Tenkawato make sure something isnt hanging it19:41
tuxd3vTenkawa, https://paste.debian.net/1188748/19:42
HumanG33kTenkawa, nothing that can explain that19:43
HumanG33kthe last is  the acpid signal19:44
HumanG33kbefore it can not boot again19:44
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: Well, *TeX-based typesetting works, and works reasonably well, especially when the user isn't shy of coding.  I moved to HTML, though, mainly because it being data, not code; and also because of its ubiquity (contrary to TeX, you don't need to accompany HTML with a bulky PDF for a casual user to be able to read the typeset version.)19:45
Tenkawatuxd3v: oh good.. same card I have19:46
Tenkawatuxd3v: its already running nouveau19:46
Tenkawaits running the way it should19:47
Tenkawaunless you "want" proprietary19:47
iv4nshm4k0v(Though my HTMLs' look is influenced by article.cls.)19:47
tuxd3vbut.. when I play videos I wanted to have aceleratio for them :(19:47
tuxd3vI mean support for the codecs19:48
Tenkawabad news:19:48
TenkawaOpen-Source "Nouveau" Driver Now Supports NVIDIA Ampere - But Without 3D Acceleration Written by Michael Larabel in Nouveau on 14 January 2021 at 08:20 PM EST. 57 Comments19:48
Tenkawait just doesnt have it19:48
tuxd3vyeah, but the firmware brings that option to the table ;)19:49
Tenkawano it doesnt!19:49
tuxd3vnow if I only got access to it..19:49
tuxd3vits in the documentation..19:49
tuxd3vhttps://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html19:49
Tenkawaif the driver doesnt support it .. it doesnt matter what the firmware supports19:51
Tenkawathey "both" have to19:51
Tenkawathe 2 distros that have it extracted it19:55
TenkawaNote that there is a script which performs the extraction from the blob directly, see VideoAcceleration. To extract from a blob version that is not supported by the script, you can try the below:19:55
Tenkawathat was on the page19:55
Tenkawalet me see if it works on a debian blob19:55
iv4nshm4k0vJFTR, Nvidia firmware has the following bit in its license:19:55
iv4nshm4k0v"2.1.2  Open Source Exception.  Notwithstanding the foregoing terms of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE may be copied and redistributed solely for use on operating systems distributed under the terms of an OSI-approved open source license [...]"19:55
Tenkawayou need to follow this procedure"19:56
Tenkawahttps://nouveau.freedesktop.org/NVC0_Firmware.html19:56
Tenkawaand eww is it a mess19:56
iv4nshm4k0vWhich I suppose is why Debian is allowed to redistribute said firmware.19:57
Tenkawasince you arent on Arch or Gentoo19:57
Tenkawaheheh19:58
Tenkawawow thats scarier than some of my old cobol or assembly19:58
* Tenkawa notes this is one of the reasons he doesn't do much with graphics at all.. not worth the time19:59
nemoTenkawa: well. gentoo has that firmware package20:02
nemoTenkawa: and... gentoo definitely has binary packages in general20:02
nemoTenkawa: https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/sys-firmware/nvidia-firmware  that is20:03
Tenkawanemo: yeah the 2 I listed there say yse20:03
Tenkawaer yes20:03
Tenkawathose were the only 220:03
Tenkawaaccording to the nouveau page20:03
Tenkawathe rest had to be extracted manually20:03
nemooh... I guess I misread your statement as. "only debian works, not arch or gentoo"20:03
tuxd3vnemo, its otherwise..20:04
TenkawaIf you are lucky, your distribution may already have a package for  installing the firmwares. Here is a list of the supported distribution:20:04
Tenkawa Archlinux Gentoo: sys-firmware/nvidia-firmware More to come20:04
Tenkawayeah20:04
Tenkawapainful20:04
TenkawaI use the proprietary ver for that card and I can say at least they work really well20:05
nemowell fortunately devuan and gentoo are the two distros I use at home. although, I purged intel CPUs and nvidia GPUs from all home machines last year20:05
tuxd3vTenkawa, yeah, that s a mess..20:05
tuxd3vand it goes even worst:20:05
tuxd3vNote: These instructions were tested with 340.32. Other versions should work fine too, but if the firmware upload mechanism is too different, it will fail. If you want to extract Maxwell's firmwares, please use the 340.32.20:05
Tenkawaversion:        460.5620:05
Tenkawathese work great on that card20:06
tuxd3vso I want pascal support not Maxwel20:06
tuxd3vbut remeber that I am in i686..20:06
tuxd3v:/20:06
Tenkawatrue20:07
TenkawaI got a bit of a diff cpu20:07
TenkawaIntel(R) Core(TM) i7-8750H CPU @ 2.20GHz20:07
Tenkawawow its 70/21 degrees here20:09
Tenkawaabout t ime20:09
tuxd3vhere its freezing..20:09
Tenkawabeen arctic too long :(20:09
Tenkawatuxd3v: sorry to hear that20:09
TenkawaI know that pain20:09
tuxd3v:)20:09
tuxd3vwe can't do nothing about it..20:10
TenkawaI have been essentially stuck in my own house for a year now20:10
Tenkawamakes it even worse20:10
tuxd3vthe Idea is Enjoy the summer, the most you can cos the winter will almost kill you20:10
tuxd3v:)20:10
TenkawaI will be out on the bike a lot soon20:10
tuxd3vwell yeah, now we can even enjoy the summer, you right..20:11
Tenkawajust have to be ableto stay away from people as much as I can20:11
tuxd3vmy problem is the Police20:11
Tenkawa(I have too many medical issues to take chances)20:11
tuxd3vthey charge 600€ minimum, if they got you in the street without a justification.20:11
TenkawaI'm doing great right now... I wat to keep it that way20:12
nemotuxd3v: O_o20:12
Tenkawanod. ouch20:12
tuxd3vyeah, those suckers..20:12
nemotuxd3v: "I'm going shopping"20:12
tuxd3vnemo do you sure you can go shopping?20:12
tuxd3vbecause here is everything closed..20:13
nemowow20:13
tuxd3vits like a desert..20:13
nemotuxd3v: there's not even any pickup service?20:13
tuxd3vseems that we are preparing for a apocaliptic war, or something..20:13
nemotuxd3v: even when stores were closed here. pickup outside was always allowed20:13
nemobut ofc that was a while ago20:13
tuxd3vfood you need to ask to the big food supliers they will deliver at your dor..20:13
nemolame and expensive and unreliable20:14
nemoI always used Safeway/Giant drive up and go, 'cause their home delivery always sucked20:14
nemowould pull up at side of building, pop trunk, wait.20:14
Tenkawanemo: you must at least be in same country as I to have those stores lol20:15
tuxd3vonly people with an authorization can be in the street till 6pm20:15
nemoTenkawa: heh. USA yes20:15
Tenkawaindeed20:15
tuxd3vafter 6pm everything completly shutdown20:15
tuxd3vthe stores are also closed20:15
nemoTenkawa: but yeah, tried their home delivery options. far more limited selection. far more product damage or errors.20:16
TenkawaSafeway was an institution growing up20:16
tuxd3vbut people with a justification, Imagine you need to go to a doctor..20:16
nemoTenkawa: the drive up and go is almost same as doing it in-store.20:16
tuxd3vthen you can leave your house20:16
nemowith no extra charge20:16
Tenkawanemo: ever heard of Meijer?20:16
tuxd3vbut if you go walk on the street Police finds you and they will charge big on you20:16
nemoTenkawa: nope. not in this area20:16
Tenkawagreat in store shopper then delivery here20:16
nemoWe have Aldi though20:16
Tenkawanemo: Aldi is great in Wisconsin area I think20:17
nemotuxd3v: oh. 6pm curfew. yeah. it's not that late here yet20:17
nemoWed 10 Mar 2021 02:17:22 PM EST20:17
nemo♥  /exec -out20:17
nemoin fact... time for some vitamin D supplementation20:17
* Tenkawa is extremely photosensitive20:18
tuxd3vnemo you right, I take Calcitab D20:18
* Tenkawa has to wait for night20:18
nemotuxd3v: no substitute for the real thing 😃20:18
nemoTenkawa: hm... you korean? korean person I know w/ autoimmune issue is very photosensitive20:18
nemoTenkawa: was thinking it was possibly due to the immune system stimulating effects20:18
Tenkawanah... just really odd medicly20:19
TenkawaI'm almost completely colorblind though20:19
Tenkawathats 90% of it20:19
nemoTenkawa: ah. you must be a guy then ☺20:19
TenkawaI can see in pitch black20:19
nemocool20:19
Tenkawayeah our cats hate it20:19
nemotons more rods?20:20
nemoTenkawa: checked your eyes for a tapetum lucidum? 😃20:20
Tenkawathey look at me and I stare right back and say "yes.... do you have something to say?"20:20
HumanG33khumm there is a way to check networking service will start at boot ?20:21
Tenkawaintriguing20:21
Tenkawaooh... lunchtime20:21
nemoHumanG33k: you trying to make services conditional on network starting?20:21
Tenkawaafk.. bbiaf20:21
tuxd3vmy dream now is a big number of people joined togueter and take on the Police, mas steal one of their boots, let them only with one, so that they needto walk with one foot on the fround.. they are charging 600€ only because A person is find in the street, they deserve that..20:21
HumanG33knemo nop20:21
nemoHumanG33k: so... just checking that the runlevel has network script in it?20:22
HumanG33kjust be sure the service will start and be well configure20:22
nemoHumanG33k: that... sounds like a service run after network service to check it20:22
nemoHumanG33k: so why not just add a script with a higher #? ☺20:22
nemoor dependant20:22
HumanG33kcurrently the information i have are the following server start, go to login screen but no network (ping response)20:23
parinteHelo. I installed devuan 3.1 with ventoy multiboot but cant start X automaticaly. Error: Not optimum mode. Recomended mode 1280x1024 60 Hz!?20:47
Tenkawanow I feel better20:50
HumanG33knemo, do you know where and what name should have the network init script ?21:13
TenkawaHumanG33k: the scripts are in /etc/init.d21:15
HumanG33kTenkawa, i talk about rc lvl here21:16
Tenkawainittab21:16
Tenkawa/etc/inittab default lvl calls the scripts (2 default on my system)21:18
Tenkawacd /etc/rc2.d21:18
Tenkawaand they are all linked from there21:18
Tenkawathank you for mentioning that btw.. just realized I have some things I need to disable21:19
HumanG33kTenkawa, do you have networking in this dir ? rc2.d ?21:20
HumanG33kor should it be start auto by other one ?21:20
Tenkawals -l /etc/rc2.d/netw*21:21
Tenkawals: cannot access '/etc/rc2.d/netw*': No such file or directory21:21
Tenkawathey have to be S*21:21
HumanG33khumm21:22
Tenkawabut no.. neither 2 nor 321:22
HumanG33kbecause i m on chroot i can not be sure it's start21:22
HumanG33kyes it s look like normal to be in S21:23
Tenkawalet me see where it does start21:23
HumanG33kas specify21:23
TenkawaI'll trace the startup21:23
HumanG33kin debian wiki21:23
Tenkawait starts in rcS21:23
HumanG33khttps://wiki.debian.org/fr/SysVInit21:24
Tenkawathen the routes get added rcS.d/S14networking-routes21:24
Tenkawathey are both in rcs21:24
Tenkawar rcS21:24
Tenkawanetworking and networking-routes21:25
Tenkawaso let me catch up.. (my memory is spotty).. what is it doing improperly21:26
HumanG33kTenkawa, do you have a -f file ?21:28
HumanG33kin rcS.d dir21:28
Tenkawajust a sec21:28
Tenkawanot specificly called "-f" no21:29
HumanG33kok understand auto complete updatercd command option21:30
Tenkawabut I do have these21:30
Tenkawalrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 Mar  8 21:46 S01network -> ../init.d/network21:30
Tenkawalrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Mar  8 21:47 S14networking-routes -> ../init.d/networking-routes21:30
fsmithredthat's correct21:30
fsmithredoops21:30
fsmithredignore that21:30
HumanG33kno networking-routes21:30
HumanG33kfor me21:30
Tenkawathat might because I'm on dev21:31
Tenkawa(unstable)21:31
HumanG33ki do not understand why the starting of that serveur fuck up21:31
Tenkawahappening consistently though right?21:32
HumanG33khow can even go to login step but log nothing21:32
Tenkawavery odd21:33
HumanG33kthere is a script somewhere to check/list default package for a neww installation ?21:36
HumanG33kfor beowulf21:37
gnarfaceHumanG33k: you can do a new install and then run "dpkg -l"22:11
gnarfaceHumanG33k: the list is subject to change based on time, installation choices, and the chosen hardware platform, so it's unlikely anyone bothered actually posting a default list elsewhere22:12
Tenkawagnarface: yeah thats the kicker... its always in flux22:13
Tenkawasoon as they make a bugfix the versions change and even sometimes the dependencies22:13
Tenkawadpkg --get-selections/--set-selections / apt-get dselect-upgrade is my  friend22:15
gnarfaceHumanG33k: if you're missing logging functionality, install rsyslogd or syslog-ng22:15
iv4nshm4k0vIME it's possible to a. make a list of "must-have" packages and b. use APT to fill in the dependencies.22:15
gnarfaceHumanG33k: (if you're missing that, you're probably missing logrotate too, so make sure to check for it)22:15
Tenkawaiv4nshm4k0v: yeah thats what I just posted22:15
Tenkawashows your installed and lets you rebuild with it22:16
Tenkawavery handy22:16
Tenkawaof course the dpkg database has to match very close/almost identical or you will get errors22:17
Tenkawa(versions, deprecated pkgs, etc)22:17
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: My point is that you can configure APT on one system install in such a way so that it will find out all the packages you need for a fresh install, possibly of a different version or distribution.22:17
Tenkawaiv4nshm4k0v: yeah dpkg -l | awk heehee22:18
Tenkawawrite it to a file and apt-get install it :) right?22:18
Tenkawathat works pretty effectively22:19
Tenkawaconfig files are going to be his conundrum22:20
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: How's that going to work when you run $ dpkg on one version (you have) and need a package list for another (you wish to install)?22:20
iv4nshm4k0vCf., e. g., $ apt-get -o Debug::NoLocking=true -o Dir::State::status=/dev/null -t testing -d install -- apg bash busybox coreutils ... unzip zstd 2>&1 | less -UF22:20
Tenkawayou can have multiple sources in sources.list22:21
Tenkawathey dont have to be installed22:21
Tenkawato query22:21
Tenkawaand why so much extra debug... with -d nothing gets run22:22
Tenkawaso its extraneous22:23
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: And what, exactly, would you be getting from $ dpkg -l ?  That some package is installed and some other is not?  $ apt-get -t version ... will report what specific packages are needed for that specific version.  Provided said version is in sources.list, right.22:23
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: -d means "download-only".22:23
Tenkawayes22:24
Tenkawaand -d is going to just run so why have all of the extra debug output?22:25
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: # apt-get -t newversion install -- package will upgrade your system to newversion; on the contrary, $ apt-get -t newversion -d install -- package will just /download/ the package, along with all its dependencies, from newversion.22:25
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: Huh?  What "extra debug output" are you talking about?22:25
Tenkawajust a sec22:26
Tenkawayou are telling it to disable file locking22:27
Tenkawathere wont be any22:27
Tenkawanot for a download22:27
Tenkawa-o Debug::NoLocking=true22:27
Tenkawathats extraneous22:27
Tenkawajust wondered why you were y=using it22:28
Tenkawaer using22:28
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: Because it doesn't work without that: $ apt-get install -- tmux => E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend - open (13: Permission denied) E: Unable to acquire the dpkg frontend lock (/var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend), are you root?22:30
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: You don't want to /accidently/ upgrade your system, now do you?22:30
Tenkawatry that again with this first:22:31
TenkawaDEBIAN_FRONTEND=readline22:31
Tenkawayou are also aren't root from that error22:33
Tenkawaand thats "valid"22:33
TenkawaI dont see root or sudo22:33
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: That's the point: I can't install packages as non-root, but I can very well download them.  Good failsafe, IMO.22:33
Tenkawano.. you should "not" be able to download them as22:34
TenkawaI wouldnt allow a non-rootuser to22:34
Tenkawathats a major security rosk22:34
Tenkawaer risk22:34
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: Even with Wget?22:35
Tenkawathey dont touch /usr or /var22:35
Tenkawa(except /var/tmp and /usr/tmp and I  have no choice there)22:35
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: Neither does apt-get, when suitably configured.22:35
Tenkawaapt must always write in "/var/cache/apt/archives/" and "/var/lib/apt/lists/partial/"22:37
Tenkawaunless you are rewriting variables22:37
Tenkawain /etc22:37
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: $ apt-get -o Dir::Cache::Archives="$HOME"/apt-archive22:37
Tenkawaits all a kludgey mashup heheh22:39
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: Also, $APT_CONFIG takes precedence over /etc/apt/apt.conf ; it may just as well be set to ~/.apt.conf .22:39
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: Works for me.22:40
Tenkawa*apt/dpkg"22:40
TenkawaI wish this would just combine it into one "combined" tool22:40
Tenkawaand make it work better22:40
TenkawaI've used it since Debian itself was created and it still pains me22:41
Tenkawa(coming from Slackware though thats still an improvement)22:41
iv4nshm4k0vTenkawa: Can't say I see the point; dpkg deals with packages, both the "installed packages" and "package files" parts.  APT tracks database of available packages; IME it's pretty easy to use it separately, with little to no relation to at least /var/lib/dpkg.  (I'm not even sure APT is at all concerned with .deb files or it can do anything that has a good-looking Packages file entry.)22:44
Tenkawaagreed apt is only a frontend but its a good one (for us commandline users)22:45
Tenkawaput some consistency between the 2's syntax22:45
Tenkawabut hey.. they work22:46
Tenkawanow I wish I would've picked up a CM4 when they were easier to get22:48
Tenkawanowhere to be found around here now22:48

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