| xrogaan | concerning dhcp, if you use it, which daemon have you installed? | 02:46 |
|---|---|---|
| xrogaan | I believe isc-dhcp-client is installed by default, but there is also dhcpcd5 | 02:46 |
| sgage | Looks like I'm running isc-dhcp-client here, seems to work fine for me | 02:50 |
| codic | Hi! I've been using Devuan linux on my Thinkpad x230 for a while, and loving it. However, I'm unable to install it on a new laptop I recently acquired, due to the ISO not containing a modern enough kernel. | 02:56 |
| onefang | Which version of Devuan are you trying? | 02:57 |
| codic | I have an eleventh generation intel processor, and it requires some 5.x kernel (not sure which one). I'm fine with using Devuan Ceres; in fact, I've been doing that on my x230 for a long time. | 02:57 |
| codic | Beowulf | 02:57 |
| codic | The trouble is, there's no Ceres iso that I can get, so I have no way of installing it in the first place; the beowulf iso just hangs | 02:57 |
| onefang | Beowulf-backports has 5.x kernels. | 02:57 |
| fsmithred | how to get that without an installed system? | 02:58 |
| onefang | I think fsmithred has Ceres versions of his refracta ISOs. That'll help. | 02:58 |
| fsmithred | I made a live-iso with backports kernel yesterday | 02:58 |
| codic | yeah, the trouble is just getting past the installation | 02:58 |
| fsmithred | openbox and lxpanel/lxterminal | 02:58 |
| fsmithred | refractainstaller | 02:58 |
| codic | ah, thank you! where can I find that? | 02:58 |
| fsmithred | one sec | 02:58 |
| fsmithred | https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta-test-oblx_5.10bpo-20210404_1625.iso | 02:59 |
| fsmithred | sha256sum is in this file: https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta-test-oblx_5.10bpo-20210404_1625.iso.sha256 | 03:00 |
| codic | oh, is Refracta just Devuan with a preconfigured desktop and a changed lsb-release or something? | 03:00 |
| fsmithred | yes | 03:00 |
| codic | downlodaing now to test, thanks :) | 03:00 |
| fsmithred | devuan sources only | 03:01 |
| fsmithred | contrib and non-free are not in sources.list but non-free firmware is installed | 03:01 |
| codic | ah, so it should be easy to convert it back into stock Devuan | 03:01 |
| fsmithred | it's meant to be for hardware test | 03:01 |
| codic | I don't mind non-free firmware, my wifi card needs it | 03:01 |
| fsmithred | it's pure devuan, just change whatever software you want | 03:02 |
| fsmithred | not a whole lot is installed | 03:02 |
| codic | great | 03:02 |
| fsmithred | you could also use it to do a debootstrap install, if you're into that | 03:03 |
| codic | just curious, how does Refracta identify itself as "Refracta" in os-release without adding a repo? would it not be overwritten? | 03:03 |
| codic | never looked into debootstrap | 03:04 |
| fsmithred | etc/lsb-release | 03:04 |
| fsmithred | also in /etc/default/grub - that one could get overwritten | 03:05 |
| codic | i thought it was provided by the lsb-release package though | 03:05 |
| onefang | Debootstrap is the "start from scratch and install everything yourself" thing you do from another Debian based distro, to a new partition. | 03:05 |
| codic | ah ok | 03:05 |
| fsmithred | no, you don't get lsb-release file by default | 03:05 |
| codic | Oh, so I can do a Debian install and debootstrap from there | 03:05 |
| codic | That's interesting | 03:05 |
| codic | Could be sort of like Arch, I'll take a look | 03:05 |
| fsmithred | devuan debootstrap is installed in the iso | 03:05 |
| fsmithred | don't go through debian. It'll just make it harder. | 03:06 |
| codic | at bios... let's just hope it boots! | 03:06 |
| codic | and.... it boots | 03:06 |
| onefang | Yay! | 03:07 |
| fsmithred | you downloaded, burned it to usb and booted hardware in that time? Or virtual? | 03:07 |
| codic | booted hardware; I'm fortunate to have fairly fast internet in the bay area | 03:08 |
| codic | yay, wicd picks up my network too | 03:08 |
| codic | is it possible to change init system (to runit) after installation? | 03:10 |
| fsmithred | after, yes | 03:10 |
| fsmithred | or download the runit iso | 03:10 |
| fsmithred | from the same directory | 03:10 |
| fsmithred | oh, no | 03:11 |
| fsmithred | no backports kernel in the runit iso | 03:11 |
| fsmithred | apt install runit-init | 03:11 |
| codic | no problem, i'll just change it post-installation | 03:11 |
| codic | time to figure out the refractainstaller, yipee | 03:11 |
| codic | I remember using this before in regular Devuan too | 03:11 |
| fsmithred | what kind of partition scheme do you want? | 03:12 |
| fsmithred | there's an online guide https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/beowulf/live-gui | 03:13 |
| fsmithred | with pics | 03:13 |
| codic | I have a Windows install sitting here gathering dust (because I don't want to void the OEM warranty, though I doubt this would do that), and partitioning is fairly simple, as long as it allows me to set mount points and use gparted or similar I should be fine | 03:14 |
| xrogaan | this is quite sad: https://roy.marples.name/archives/dhcpcd-discuss/0003457.html | 03:15 |
| fsmithred | yes, you can use gparted | 03:16 |
| codic | i've seen that as well, very unfortunate :-( | 03:16 |
| fsmithred | you can have separate /home and/or separate /boot | 03:17 |
| codic | i usually have 6 partitions; 3 are for Windows, the other 3 are for my current linux distribution (1gb /boot/efi fat32, 2gb linuxswap, 350-ish gb / xfs) | 03:19 |
| codic | having windows on here does complicate everything... after 1 year warranty is over i'll probably wipe it | 03:19 |
| codic | maybe I should buy a new ssd, put that one on the side, in case I have to send it in for repairs I can put it back in | 03:19 |
| fsmithred | good idea | 03:20 |
| fsmithred | oh, if you want xfs... | 03:20 |
| fsmithred | pre-partition and format, then in the installer, check the box that says "Do not format" | 03:21 |
| codic | i see, thanks | 03:24 |
| codic | interesting. so I was removing the entries from my previous Artix Linux install with efibootmgr, but running efibootmgr I get "EFI variables are not supported on this system". | 03:28 |
| codic | but it is an uefi system, no legacy bios | 03:28 |
| xrogaan | sgage: do you have DHCPREQUESTs every 5 minutes in your syslog too? | 03:28 |
| codic | i guess I could ignore it and continue, but I'm curious in case I might end up with something unbootable | 03:29 |
| fsmithred | you're in the live usb now? | 03:29 |
| xrogaan | 25 minutes* | 03:29 |
| fsmithred | codic, do you know whether you got and isolinux or grub boot menu? | 03:30 |
| fsmithred | and/an | 03:30 |
| codic | a grub menu | 03:31 |
| codic | yes, I'm in the live usb | 03:31 |
| fsmithred | so /sys/firmware/efi should exist | 03:31 |
| codic | also /sys/firmware/efi exists | 03:31 |
| codic | yeah, just was checking that | 03:31 |
| fsmithred | is the efi partition mounted? | 03:31 |
| fsmithred | it might need that. I'm not sure. | 03:31 |
| codic | hmm, perhaps | 03:32 |
| fsmithred | and might depend on the motherboard | 03:32 |
| fsmithred | uefi implementations are anything but standard | 03:32 |
| codic | Fair, but it usually works on other distributions (including upstream Debian testing isos) | 03:32 |
| fsmithred | are you keeping another linux on the hard drive? | 03:32 |
| codic | yeah, Artix Linux right now | 03:33 |
| fsmithred | then you don't even need to add a bootloader | 03:33 |
| codic | no efivarfs in `mount` | 03:33 |
| codic | i want to wipe it though | 03:33 |
| fsmithred | oh | 03:33 |
| codic | i was able to mount it this way, and now it works: | 03:34 |
| codic | mount -t efivarfs efivarfs /sys/firmware/efi/efivars | 03:34 |
| fsmithred | ok, I just ran efibootmgr in the iso booted in qemu | 03:35 |
| fsmithred | bios boot | 03:35 |
| fsmithred | and got the exact message you got | 03:35 |
| codic | yeah, I think that it was not automounting efivarfs in the live fstab or something | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | what normally does that mount? | 03:36 |
| codic | does what mount? | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | efivars | 03:36 |
| codic | not sure tbh | 03:37 |
| codic | gotta go now, will update once i have a working system and am back | 03:38 |
| codic | hi, back; I installed my system successfully, however, in my dual boot setup, it boots straight into the Windows install; not even a boot entry for Devuan in the bios | 08:02 |
| codic | the installer was adamant about mounting /boot/efi on the windows esp (partition 1), perhaps it could be that | 08:02 |
| codic | well, actually, there are two partitions that show up as bootable from the bios; one is Windows, other is a broken Grub | 08:04 |
| codic | I'm considering installing Debian, trying my luck migrating from there | 08:04 |
| onefang | Personally I recommend using rEFInd instead of grub. You can install it from the Devuan package repo. | 08:05 |
| nvz | bios doesn't have "boot options" like you're describing | 08:05 |
| nvz | if you're using efi and dualbooting with windows 10, you probably just want to install a linux-compatible bootloader | 08:09 |
| codic | I have no experience with refind, but I may give it a shot. what do you mean by "bios does not have boot options"? | 08:16 |
| codic | and grub should be linux-compatible... ;) | 08:16 |
| gnarface | finding a previous grub installation on another drive or partition can cause complications | 08:17 |
| gnarface | the windows bootloader can cause issues too | 08:17 |
| gnarface | sometimes you can just chroot into the drive from a live image and re-run update-grub | 08:17 |
| gnarface | sometimes that doesn't work and you have to edit the config manually | 08:17 |
| gnarface | worst case scenario maybe try lilo instead | 08:18 |
| codic | yeah, windows is crap and I have no need for it, just want to avoid potentially voiding the warranty | 08:18 |
| codic | i was thinking of trying grub-install, but will try update-grub too tomorrow | 08:18 |
| codic | actually, i'll give it a shot right now | 08:19 |
| gnarface | both approaches *should* work in theory but if they always worked lilo wouldn't still be getting maintained | 08:19 |
| zeroability[m] | I don't see how that would void the warranty. You can always install the downloaded Win10 on it and they won't know the difference. | 08:19 |
| * gnarface wouldn't gamble on that | 08:19 | |
| gnarface | before EFI i would have said sure, but now with some of these ultra portable laptops... dirty tricks may be in play | 08:20 |
| gnarface | it's a brand-by-brand thing usually | 08:20 |
| gnarface | ASUS wouldn't care, Dell would shoot you out the airlock | 08:21 |
| zeroability[m] | Umm, which Dell model are you referring to? | 08:21 |
| codic | indeed, this is a Dell laptop, and they have more Dell software alone than any fully configured GNU/Linux setup I've had | 08:21 |
| codic | although to be fair, this is one of their cheap laptops, a Vostro | 08:22 |
| zeroability[m] | Since they still sell systems with Ubuntu, I doubt they would care. | 08:22 |
| gnarface | i doubt they'd care about the models that come with ubuntu | 08:22 |
| gnarface | but they definitely have locked-in laptops still too, and they're the cheap ones | 08:22 |
| gnarface | i don't remember a specific brand but i'd be wary of the models < 1000$ that came with win10 preloaded | 08:23 |
| zeroability[m] | That does happen with the 10 S units. | 08:23 |
| codic | i mean, I've noticed no sort of lock-in beside from the stupid thing that vendors seem to do where the disk mode is set to raid | 08:23 |
| codic | this is 10 pro I believe | 08:23 |
| zeroability[m] | Yeah, you should be fine then. | 08:23 |
| gnarface | of course, dell also has had plenty of problems with issues just caused by low-quality bios interactions with grub (which lilo usually did better with at least in the past) | 08:24 |
| zeroability[m] | If you are concerned, just image the drive. | 08:24 |
| gnarface | yea if you can dd the whole thing somewhere else that's probably worth the time | 08:24 |
| zeroability[m] | Maybe do the BIOS update if there is one. | 08:25 |
| gnarface | i would always recommend making a backup of the factory stock image in case you need to update the bios | 08:25 |
| gnarface | dell has made some effort to make some of their bios updates more portable but by and large they've failed | 08:25 |
| zeroability[m] | You are in my head, gnarface . I don't know if I like that lol. | 08:25 |
| codic | i swear if I didn't know if it was a bios, I'd think this laptop's bios was an electron application | 08:26 |
| zeroability[m] | eww | 08:27 |
| gnarface | yea actually i would not only update the bios, i'd get all the patches for the windows install before raw copying the whole drive to my file server | 08:28 |
| gnarface | (less to re-download later if it comes to that) | 08:28 |
| codic | I have no idea what Dell puts on here, because Windows by itself is already bloated, but add in their Dell stuff and I get ~4GB of ram usage to boot | 08:29 |
| gnarface | but it should be mentioned for the record that it's been over 2 decades... | 08:29 |
| zeroability[m] | You probably should check that there isn't a McAfee product on it. Even Defender does better and uses less resources in independent tests. I would pull whatever non-essential Dell branded or bloatware off before you make the image. | 08:32 |
| codic | there is indeed a McAfee subscription on it | 08:32 |
| zeroability[m] | Yeah, that may be your problem. | 08:33 |
| codic | lol, was trying to unmount my chroot partition, and accidentally did rm -rf /mnt, I shouldn't do these things at 2330 | 08:33 |
| zeroability[m] | :( | 08:34 |
| codic | Well, it doesn't really matter; the install didn't boot, I didn't touch the Windows partition; no data was on there | 08:34 |
| codic | well, not in the mood to sleep, nor do i trust myself to install another distro right now, so let's see if I can convert Debian->Devuan in a vm | 08:38 |
| gnarface | that's a worthwhile exercise | 08:39 |
| gnarface | mostly it will involve uninstalling then reinstalling most the desktop interface | 08:40 |
| gnarface | it varies a lot by what was pre-installed though | 08:40 |
| gnarface | upgrading a headless minimal install is usually pretty trivial | 08:41 |
| gnarface | upgrading a gnome desktop might cause PTSD | 08:41 |
| codic | both times in the past I've tried gnome and failed, I don't like the direction 40 is taking anyways, so I'll try XFCE or maybe just do a headless install | 08:43 |
| codic | on real hardware the only trouble that I can see is getting wifi to work (transitioning from NM to WICD, I could do that pre-migration) because I don't have ethernet access | 08:44 |
| gateway2000 | one thing that's been a huge help to me without ethernet access is usb tethering my phone. works with nm and wicd | 08:45 |
| gour | hello, i'm running sid and plan to install devuan on my machines (desktop & netbook), so wonder what is the next-best (besides sysvinit) supported init system? | 12:29 |
| lts- | That would be openrc and runit, or runit and openrc https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/16/devuan_3_10_adds_runit_init/ | 12:31 |
| gour | @lts- yeah, both are, afaik, suppored in devuan, but what would be recommended as alternative for sysvinit for devuan in regard to support, how active is upstream etc.? | 12:36 |
| Ankokukishi | sysvinit is perfectly fine :) | 12:37 |
| Ankokukishi | i like my distros crusty and old, but extremely stable :) | 12:38 |
| lts- | If you don't like sysvinit for some reason, either of openrc or runit are fine. I'd personally prefer openrc, but I haven't used it with devuan. Some others prefer runit | 12:44 |
| lts- | There is no official or semi-official recommendation for any of the three AFAIK | 12:45 |
| gour | installed devuan on my netbook, but have same/old issue - only "ncurses" grub theme? | 16:13 |
| gnarface | oh there's some default package that's wrong | 16:15 |
| gnarface | it's easy to change but not easy to remember | 16:15 |
| fsmithred | there's a trick because desktop base gets installed before grub | 16:15 |
| fsmithred | I think if you reinstall desktop-base it will fix it | 16:15 |
| gour | i see, thanks | 16:16 |
| fsmithred | there should be a grub-theme line in /etc/default/grub | 16:16 |
| gnarface | worth a try | 16:16 |
| fsmithred | adding that and running update-grub might be enough | 16:16 |
| fsmithred | GRUB_THEME=/usr/share/desktop-base/grub-themes/desktop-grub-theme/theme.txt | 16:18 |
| gour | ok, will try. now doing apt-update to ceres | 16:19 |
| fsmithred | oh, I don't know what you'll get with desktop-base in ceres | 16:32 |
| fsmithred | oh, same as beowulf | 16:33 |
| crashoverride | fsmithred: what does it take to have programs added to beowulf-backports/ | 16:45 |
| crashoverride | s,/$,?, | 16:45 |
| fsmithred | crashoverride, I'm not sure. | 16:45 |
| crashoverride | If it's just giving someone the name of the debian packages from sid, that can be done :D | 16:45 |
| mason | crashoverride: They'd have to be in backports for Debian I'm pretty sure. If it were unique to Devuan, it wouldn't need to go into backports, but into the main repository. That said, if it's not a backport in Debian but you wanted it to be in Devuan, that'd be interesting and worth discussing in a meeting. | 16:47 |
| mason | or on a mailing list | 16:47 |
| fsmithred | debootstrap and debian-lintian-profile are the only packages that devuan has added to beowulf-backports | 16:47 |
| crashoverride | meeting? | 16:47 |
| crashoverride | do you guys do meetings? | 16:47 |
| fsmithred | yes | 16:47 |
| crashoverride | where? | 16:48 |
| fsmithred | jitsi | 16:48 |
| crashoverride | ah | 16:48 |
| crashoverride | I can still join to, I have a jitsi client. | 16:48 |
| crashoverride | I was hoping IRL, but then, Covid and all. | 16:48 |
| fsmithred | distance is more of a factor than covid | 16:49 |
| fsmithred | also finding a suitable meeting time was difficult | 16:49 |
| mason | The closest of us are still not close. | 16:49 |
| crashoverride | mason: like? | 16:49 |
| crashoverride | I think fsmithred is in Deutschland, are you guys far from there? | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | mason and I could meet and get back home in the same day without flying | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | I'm in US Northeast | 16:50 |
| crashoverride | ah | 16:50 |
| crashoverride | I was WAAAAAY off. | 16:50 |
| crashoverride | Like, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY WAY off. | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | you could join the devuan-dev mailing list | 16:50 |
| crashoverride | sure. | 16:50 |
| crashoverride | I'd better ditch a few of my current MLs before I join another one tho | 16:51 |
| fsmithred | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/mindex/devuan-dev@20380101.000000.00000000.en.html | 16:51 |
| crashoverride | thx | 16:51 |
| crashoverride | also, would be worth puting a 301 on ml.devuan.org to that address :D | 16:51 |
| crashoverride | or 302, if it can move. | 16:52 |
| fsmithred | sorry, I don't understand | 16:52 |
| crashoverride | fsmithred: echo "GET / HTTP/1.1" | nc ml.devuan.org 80 | 16:52 |
| crashoverride | fsmithred: location: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/mindex/devuan-dev@20380101.000000.00000000.en.html | 16:53 |
| crashoverride | (clearer?) | 16:53 |
| fsmithred | no | 16:54 |
| crashoverride | hmm | 16:54 |
| crashoverride | how to explain that | 16:54 |
| crashoverride | lemme try with normal words: | 16:55 |
| fsmithred | ml.devuan.org [217.172.187.18] 80 (http) : Connection timed out | 16:55 |
| fsmithred | and that address belongs to a hosting co. in Germany | 16:56 |
| fsmithred | no | 16:56 |
| crashoverride | Maybe it would be useful to set up an HTTP redirect (302) on via a web page served at https://ml.devuan.org/ that would give a response pointing the new location to https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/mindex/devuan-dev@20380101.000000.00000000.en.html | 16:56 |
| crashoverride | clearer? | 16:56 |
| fsmithred | yeah | 16:56 |
| crashoverride | \o/ | 16:56 |
| fsmithred | lists might be moving anyway | 16:56 |
| crashoverride | yeah so 302 | 16:57 |
| crashoverride | I don't save time by not typing complete sentences right away... | 16:57 |
| fsmithred | works better if you talk to someone who knows what you're talking about | 16:57 |
| crashoverride | like the way manpages are written? | 16:58 |
| crashoverride | :D | 16:58 |
| fsmithred | yeah, 20 years and I still don't understand a lot of them | 16:58 |
| crashoverride | well, you would, if you knew everything that is in them. | 17:00 |
| crashoverride | manpages are only useful to people who need a quick reference. | 17:01 |
| crashoverride | they're cheatsheets written in a way that makes their author look clever. | 17:01 |
| crashoverride | So, now, question: why is ml.devuan.org pointed at a PlusServer GmbH server? :D | 17:03 |
| crashoverride | fun, it's actually serving neapel232.startdedicated.com | 17:06 |
| fsmithred | crashoverride, maybe someone was expecting to put a devuan package mirror in Mali | 18:03 |
| crashoverride | :D | 18:06 |
| MinceR | maybe it was moved there from MzunguHosting | 18:34 |
| crashoverride | ? | 18:41 |
| MinceR | https://mzunguhosting.ml/ | 18:49 |
| MinceR | (audio) | 18:50 |
| golinux | Does no good to speculate here. Dyne admins the devuan mail servers | 18:55 |
| crashoverride | fuuuuck, debian packages are *OLD* | 19:27 |
| crashoverride | it's not "stable", it's "rooted" | 19:27 |
| crashoverride | flask 1.0.2?! REALLY? That's May 2018. | 19:27 |
| rwp | crashoverride, You seem to be missing the point of Stable LTS releases. If you want new then you want Ceres/Sid. | 19:28 |
| crashoverride | no I'm not missing the point. Stable means stable. Not "So old it's not even relevant anymore". | 19:29 |
| crashoverride | or, I mean, in that case, just install BSD 4.3 | 19:30 |
| crashoverride | That's old enough. | 19:30 |
| crashoverride | June 1986 ought to be stable for anyone. | 19:30 |
| rwp | I await your concept of a release that is stable for 2 years minimum but does not contain versions from the time it was released. | 19:31 |
| crashoverride | so, in your view, stable means "inchanged"? | 19:31 |
| crashoverride | you just roll CVE fixes, and that's it? | 19:31 |
| crashoverride | unchanged even | 19:32 |
| crashoverride | same software as it was 3 years ago, no matter what was introduced since? | 19:32 |
| DHE | largely. I should be able to install updates with no fear that everything will break horrifically | 19:32 |
| DHE | and sometimes that means version locking software to a very narrow slot | 19:32 |
| crashoverride | somtimes, maybe. | 19:33 |
| crashoverride | for ALL software tho? | 19:33 |
| crashoverride | I mean, I get it, if everyone is locked to a specific version number, that's easier to test, sure. | 19:33 |
| DHE | not all. there are some moving targets. firefox stands out as one | 19:33 |
| crashoverride | yeah that would be too visible, right? | 19:33 |
| crashoverride | why not keep firefox from 2018? | 19:33 |
| crashoverride | I'm sure debian would still have plenty users. | 19:33 |
| crashoverride | or is firefox so stable that it's not a problem? | 19:34 |
| DHE | I migrated to a firefox fork around that time | 19:34 |
| DHE | firefox is not stable. every year or so they discontinue a version from ESR and a new one starts up. | 19:34 |
| crashoverride | yeah so how do things work with firefox, then? | 19:35 |
| rwp | I think they chose wrong when they decided to handle firefox in the security suite rather than the volatile -updates suite (like tzdata). | 19:35 |
| DHE | from the version numbers of packages I think you can force apt to stick with a single ESR tree, but when it runs out of support from mozilla it won't get updates any more. | 19:35 |
| crashoverride | Since it's updated but not causing a problem, while stupid stuff like flask isn't updated; as it would "cause a problem". | 19:35 |
| crashoverride | I dunno. | 19:36 |
| crashoverride | 3 years is a long time. | 19:36 |
| crashoverride | 3 years ago, Intel CPUs were relevant. | 19:36 |
| crashoverride | 3 years ago, people were working in buildings, going there every day. | 19:36 |
| crashoverride | 3 years ago, a pandemic was only a movie topic. | 19:37 |
| DHE | libraries are linked to by lots of other packages. if the updates are good, say like curl, maybe you can just follow updates. but if installing an update might break API or ABI compatibility you have a much bigger package problem. | 19:37 |
| crashoverride | 3 years ago, a GPU could be found at the nearest store. | 19:37 |
| rwp | I looked into flask for a friend a one point and it wasn't even producing releases. At the time AFAICS users who used it were using the development branch because no releases existed. | 19:37 |
| crashoverride | yeah okay, so basically, "flask users don't use debian" | 19:37 |
| crashoverride | well... | 19:38 |
| crashoverride | I mean, I get why. | 19:38 |
| rwp | crashoverride, So... If 3 years is a long time then your concept for a stable release is to be stable for, how long? 2 weeks? 6 weeks? 12 weeks? How long? | 19:38 |
| rwp | And remember, if you don't like a 2 year stable release plan then there is always the daily build and you can use Unstable. Just saying... | 19:38 |
| crashoverride | rwp: my concept for a stable release is to keep *some* software stable, while other software isn't necessarily required to be. | 19:39 |
| crashoverride | and yes I know, libraries are hell. | 19:39 |
| rwp | That's basically the *BSD release plan. They have a very stable OS core and then push almost everything else into ports. | 19:39 |
| crashoverride | yeah. | 19:39 |
| crashoverride | but guess what, *BSD has driver issues. | 19:39 |
| crashoverride | or I'd be running BSD on this laptop. | 19:39 |
| golinux | crashoverride: Everything is relative. I am still happily running jessie | 19:40 |
| rwp | When I buy hardware I look very closely at driver compatibility. Sometimes I actually get it right too. | 19:40 |
| crashoverride | Linux is big enough a kernel by now (and I mean it the popularity way, not the size-on-disk way, even tho it's also big that way) that manufacturers care their product are supported with it. | 19:40 |
| rwp | I happen to be typing this on a Stretch system. | 19:40 |
| golinux | And really this conversation is probably better suited to #devuan-offtopic | 19:41 |
| crashoverride | when I buy hardware, I have so many limitations that if I'd take driver compatibility into account, I'd be running a PDP11. | 19:41 |
| rwp | Last I looked Broadcom was still not playing nice with the community when it comes to drivers. | 19:41 |
| golinux | Please take it there . . . | 19:41 |
| rwp | And although nVidia makes binary drivers available that isn't the same thing. | 19:41 |
| crashoverride | I do not touch broadcom with a 10 feet pole. | 19:41 |
| golinux | Please take it to offtopic | 19:42 |
| crashoverride | also I do not use Nvidia for work. | 19:42 |
| rwp | golinux is correct. But I need to work. I'll see you folks later! | 19:42 |
| crashoverride | I dunno what golinux wrote. | 19:43 |
| rwp | crashoverride, golinux wrote that we are off-topic for this channel. If we want to rant we should do it in #devuan-offtopic. | 19:43 |
| crashoverride | k | 19:44 |
| crashoverride | :P | 21:37 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!