| mason | sadsnork: I just corrected time on the forum server. Thank you for noting it. | 01:26 |
|---|---|---|
| sadsnork | Thanks mason! :-) | 01:27 |
| Wafficus | hey there is Devuan capable of installing Flatpaks? | 01:59 |
| Wafficus | didn't know if this was systemd dependent | 01:59 |
| Wafficus | I see it present in 'apt' on Devuan, but wanted to confirm if this was ok to install | 01:59 |
| golinux | Wafficus: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt | 02:50 |
| Wafficus | golinux: thanks! | 02:53 |
| Wafficus | yeah flatpak worked just fine, just needed something for a game I was interested in | 02:53 |
| golinux | yw | 02:55 |
| adhoc | morning all | 03:29 |
| Wafficus | Hey there, question about Pulseaudio. So I have both Pulse and Alsa on my Devuan Desktop | 03:39 |
| Wafficus | if I try to use pavucontrol, it just sayings "Connecting to pulseaudio, please wait" and nothing happens | 03:39 |
| Wafficus | I tried rebooting and it still doesn't allow me to adjust it | 03:40 |
| Wafficus | is it a case of ALSA fighting Pulseaudio? | 03:40 |
| adhoc | do either of them require a service running in the back ground? | 03:47 |
| * adhoc can | 03:47 | |
| * adhoc can't remember | 03:47 | |
| Wafficus | well I know I configured one of them with ~/.asoundrc aka Alsa | 03:52 |
| Wafficus | but I'm not sure if I have to then configure pulseaudio appropriately | 03:52 |
| Wafficus | I just remember using Pavucontrol since its pretty easy but it just doesn't want to run | 03:52 |
| Wafficus | I think my workaround if I remember correctly would be to nuke the file that Pulse creates automatically | 03:52 |
| Wafficus | I think that's the workaround, will check my notes | 03:52 |
| fsmithred | install debian-pulseaudio-config-override | 04:20 |
| fsmithred | or see the release notes to make the edit manually | 04:20 |
| adhoc | interesting | 04:24 |
| rwp | How does one interpret https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt ?? Are packages with an entry banned in that noted release? | 04:29 |
| rwp | So for example libvirt-daemon-system-systemd has A and B listed. So does that mean banned in chimaera and ceres/unstable by that listing? Banned or forked? | 04:30 |
| golinux | rrq: ^^^ Please note. I am not the only one who find that layout confusing . . . | 04:31 |
| fsmithred | rwp, it means it's banned in that suite | 05:01 |
| fsmithred | a blank means it doesn't exist or it's not banned | 05:02 |
| rwp | Banned but not forked. Okay. Gotcha. The confusing part is that we know many things are forked. Is there forkedpackages.txt page? (Not that spelling I know but perhaps different location?) | 05:08 |
| rwp | I think I am being silly here. For this particular package collection libvirt-daemon-system is actually the one we need on Devuan. And it's not banned. | 05:11 |
| rwp | Sorry but I got distracted by the libvirt-daemon-system-systemd when libvirt-daemon-system is actually okay. | 05:11 |
| rwp | Thanks fsmithred and golinux. ^^ | 05:12 |
| fsmithred | dpkg -l |grep devuan | 05:13 |
| fsmithred | it's in the version | 05:13 |
| rwp | Sorry I was being foolish with my thinking. I looked at that listing and looked through for things I was using. And hit that one. | 05:16 |
| rwp | I am using it on Beowulf and all is good there. But all should also be good on testing/unstable too. Because I did not read things in enough detail. | 05:17 |
| adhoc | anyone booted up a VM on a Mac M1 for an arm64 VM ? | 05:26 |
| * rwp has not | 05:27 | |
| adhoc | I have some pine rock64pro's on order which are also amd64 | 05:36 |
| adhoc | hoping to get a build machine and a nas running for home | 05:36 |
| adhoc | get back into some dev in the mean time | 05:36 |
| aki | :-) | 11:04 |
| aki | I have some free time I decided to experiment with Gentoo, Crux, Artix, NetBSD and... Devuan | 11:05 |
| aki | It may seem strange but Devuan is the first system/distro that I don't know how to install | 11:06 |
| aki | the documentation is idiot-proof but it misses one subtle problem: | 11:06 |
| aki | netinstall. I need wifi. I need non-free firmware. I have it on other partitions. I'm unable to mount them from the tty2... | 11:07 |
| aki | mount.ext4 /dev/<theotherpartition> /mnt | 11:07 |
| aki | failed | 11:07 |
| aki | The install process asks if I'd like to load it from a CD Y/N | 11:08 |
| aki | No CD, a single USB (that one!). Several ext3, ext4 partitions... | 11:09 |
| aki | What should I do? | 11:09 |
| fsmithred | aki, when the installer asks you to insert media with firmware, please ignore it and continue | 11:09 |
| aki | but I really NEED wifi - it is a netinstall! | 11:09 |
| fsmithred | firmware will be installed unless it's one of the broadcoms that requires you have a wire | 11:09 |
| fsmithred | it's all in /firmware in the iso | 11:10 |
| aki | I tried to proceed and it doesn't see my wifi interface... | 11:10 |
| aki | and it complains it is missing | 11:10 |
| fsmithred | do you know which firmware package you need? | 11:11 |
| aki | sure | 11:11 |
| fsmithred | am I allowed to know? | 11:11 |
| aki | and I HAVE it on Arch, Gentoo, Crux and Artix partitions | 11:11 |
| aki | iwlwifi-5000-?.ucode | 11:12 |
| aki | ? : 1, 2, etc | 11:12 |
| fsmithred | firmware-iwlwifi is there and normally gets installed if you need it | 11:12 |
| fsmithred | is 5000 very new? | 11:12 |
| aki | it's a ThinkPad T400... 12yo... | 11:13 |
| aki | so I don't think so ;-) | 11:13 |
| fsmithred | ok, it should be installing on that, no problems | 11:13 |
| fsmithred | check sha256sum to make sure the download is good | 11:14 |
| aki | selecting locales, than the question for missing non-free firmware, than it proceeds to configuring interfaces... And misses the wlan0 | 11:14 |
| fsmithred | which iso are you using? | 11:15 |
| fsmithred | nm | 11:15 |
| fsmithred | you said netinstall | 11:15 |
| aki | https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_beowulf/installer-iso/devuan_beowulf_3.1.1_amd64_netinstall.iso | 11:15 |
| fsmithred | alt-F4 will get you to syslog output or alt-F2 for a console | 11:16 |
| fsmithred | go back and retry the failed step (detecting hardware) | 11:17 |
| fsmithred | not usre what else to try. Like I said, it normally works on old thinkpads. T420 here. | 11:17 |
| aki | I have switched to tty2 and tried: mount.ext4 /dev/<theotherpartition> /mnt | 11:17 |
| aki | It is non a problem of too new software. The problem is it requires a NONFREE firmware | 11:18 |
| fsmithred | no, that's not the problem | 11:18 |
| fsmithred | the problem is it's not finding wlan0 | 11:18 |
| fsmithred | the non-free firmware is there | 11:18 |
| fsmithred | in /firmware/firmware-iwlwifi (it's really a symlink) | 11:19 |
| aki | Some of your hardware needs a non-free firmware to operate | 11:19 |
| fsmithred | yes, I know | 11:19 |
| fsmithred | what I don't know is why it won't find wlan0 | 11:19 |
| aki | The firmware can e loaded from removale media such as a USB stick or floppy | 11:19 |
| aki | The missing firmware files are: <list here> | 11:19 |
| aki | if you have such media available now inset it and continue | 11:20 |
| fsmithred | Someone else was complaining about not being able to load firmware at that point | 11:20 |
| aki | Load firmware from removable media: Yes / No | 11:20 |
| fsmithred | I've never tried it | 11:20 |
| fsmithred | you don't need to read me the whole thing. I know what you're talking about. | 11:20 |
| aki | Yes: no found and da capo... | 11:20 |
| fsmithred | you should not have to load firmware at that point | 11:20 |
| fsmithred | go past it. If it does not see wlan0, go back and do hardware detect again | 11:21 |
| fsmithred | read the syslog and see if there are any clues | 11:21 |
| aki | If I skipp it at the next point it doesn't see the interface. Netinstall with no network?? | 11:21 |
| fsmithred | or install from one of the live isos that have the firmware already installed | 11:21 |
| fsmithred | retry and read the syslog | 11:22 |
| aki | Moreover: as I wrote: I HAVE those files on numerous other partitions I have on this CD | 11:22 |
| fsmithred | see what it says | 11:22 |
| aki | syslogd says: missing firmware files | 11:22 |
| aki | looking for firmware ... | 11:22 |
| aki | not found ... | 11:23 |
| fsmithred | go back to hardware detect and read syslog | 11:23 |
| aki | check git://git.kernel.org/.... | 11:23 |
| fsmithred | if it knows you need iwlwifi, it must be seeing wlan0 | 11:23 |
| rrq | hmmm should load automagically... is the wlan turned off? | 11:24 |
| fsmithred | oh, good question | 11:25 |
| aki | Arch, Artix, Gentoo, Crux and NetBSD can see it ;-) | 11:25 |
| fsmithred | not fully awake here | 11:25 |
| rrq | can do "more /var/log/syslog" on vt2 | 11:25 |
| rrq | to see if the kernel says something about it | 11:25 |
| aki | I'm checking the dmesg | 11:26 |
| aki | (with less it would be faster...) | 11:27 |
| rrq | maybe there installer has "rfkill" on vt2 as well | 11:27 |
| aki | iwlwifi 0000:03:00.0: firmware: failed to load iwlwifi-5000-5.ucode (-2) | 11:28 |
| aki | ... firmware class: See https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware for information about missing firmware | 11:28 |
| aki | etc | 11:29 |
| rrq | ok so the firmware is available... dos "rfkill" say something? | 11:29 |
| rrq | eh or hmm maybe it means the firmware is not available(?) | 11:30 |
| aki | was it 'rfkill list all'? | 11:30 |
| rrq | just "rfkill" should be good | 11:30 |
| aki | nope | 11:30 |
| rrq | I think that suggests the wifi adapter is switched off | 11:31 |
| rrq | is there a physical switch? | 11:31 |
| * ShorTie wonders, sure you got iwlwifi-5000-5.ucode | 11:31 | |
| ShorTie | in /lib/firmware | 11:32 |
| aki | Yes there is a physical switch. It is turned on! Just rebooted to Gentoo and Gentoo says: | 11:33 |
| aki | aki@t400-gentoo ~ $ rfkill | 11:33 |
| aki | ID TYPE DEVICE SOFT HARD | 11:33 |
| aki | 0 bluetooth tpacpi_bluetooth_sw unblocked unblocked | 11:33 |
| aki | 1 wwan tpacpi_wwan_sw unblocked unblocked | 11:33 |
| aki | 2 bluetooth hci0 unblocked unblocked | 11:33 |
| aki | 3 wlan phy0 unblocked unblocked | 11:33 |
| aki | So other distros have no problems | 11:35 |
| fsmithred | what is wwan? | 11:35 |
| aki | Same with BSDs | 11:35 |
| rrq | right.. I know the firmware is on the ISO and the installer should find it ... | 11:36 |
| aki | On Gentoo I have 1, 2 and 5 | 11:36 |
| aki | yes it should | 11:36 |
| aki | but it diesn;t | 11:36 |
| aki | doesn't | 11:36 |
| rrq | there is some story if you've put it on a CD and your drive only admits to joliet format or something, in which case the firmwar links don't work | 11:36 |
| fsmithred | I've seen that happen, but I don't know what caused it | 11:37 |
| fsmithred | and not lately | 11:37 |
| aki | I'm using a USB install | 11:37 |
| fsmithred | something odd must be going on. There are a lot of old thinkpads in this community. Normally it works. | 11:38 |
| fsmithred | dd or cat the iso to the usb? | 11:38 |
| aki | dd | 11:38 |
| fsmithred | ok | 11:38 |
| rrq | are you able to pastebin /var/log/syslog after coming to teh dialogue where it fails to include wlan0 ? | 11:39 |
| aki | how? with no network...? | 11:40 |
| rrq | you can mount another usb and copy to it? | 11:40 |
| aki | OK, I'm getting tired of systemd new "inventions" in Arch so I decided to move to sth else. Artix (non-systemd Arch), back to Gentoo (I used for 15 years), sth simple like Crux or back to BSDs (I used at the end of the previous century)... | 11:42 |
| aki | and I also decided to give a try to Devuan... | 11:42 |
| aki | but I'm afraid it won't be the choice :-( | 11:42 |
| fsmithred | see if the desktop-live iso works | 11:43 |
| aki | rrq: currently I have no other working and free USB slot on that machine | 11:43 |
| aki | server or desktop or desktop live? | 11:44 |
| fsmithred | the third one- desktop-live | 11:44 |
| fsmithred | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/desktop-live/devuan_beowulf_3.1.1_amd64_desktop-live.iso | 11:45 |
| aki | it will take a while | 11:45 |
| aki | downloading + I need to free up another USB stick (this was 512MB) | 11:45 |
| fsmithred | yeah, ok | 11:45 |
| fsmithred | 1.2G | 11:46 |
| rrq | (possibly a mirror source would be a magnitude faster ?) | 11:46 |
| fsmithred | oh yeah | 11:46 |
| fsmithred | hmmm... a link to a mirror list on fdo main page might be nice | 11:47 |
| rrq | https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_beowulf/desktop-live/devuan_beowulf_3.1.1_amd64_desktop-live.iso | 11:47 |
| fsmithred | aki ^^^ | 11:47 |
| aki | ~5minutes | 11:48 |
| aki | # dd if=/home/aki/Downloads/devuan_beowulf_3.1.1_amd64_desktop-live.iso of=/dev/sdb && sync | 11:51 |
| rrq | (I tend to also have bs=1M which speeds it up a little) | 11:54 |
| aki | AFAIR the default bs=512 so there is no substantial change.. | 11:55 |
| rrq | no rush | 11:55 |
| rrq | true; but with 512 byte block it might not fill up the bulk usb channel | 11:56 |
| aki | ok, init 6 | 11:56 |
| aki | devuan-live (from the GRUB menu)? | 11:57 |
| fsmithred | on a T400 it should be isolinux | 11:57 |
| fsmithred | boot first item in menu | 11:57 |
| aki | sth strange. I'll take another usb stick | 11:58 |
| fsmithred | xfce should come up in about half a minute | 11:58 |
| fsmithred | oh, maybe more with slow usb stick | 11:59 |
| aki | The sha2 is OK, but there was a problem with booting so I took some other usb stick for dd | 12:02 |
| aki | Higher blocksize doesn't speed it up - as I expected.. | 12:04 |
| fsmithred | spinning disk or ssd? | 12:04 |
| aki | no ssd in this one | 12:05 |
| aki | ok, sync, booting | 12:05 |
| aki | :-( I'm used to ifconfig; do you remember the syntax of ip ? | 12:07 |
| aki | 'ip show sth' or what? | 12:07 |
| fsmithred | ip a | 12:08 |
| fsmithred | I don't really know ip | 12:08 |
| fsmithred | and ifconfig is installed | 12:08 |
| rrq | "ip link" to see the link level | 12:08 |
| aki | and it sees all interfaces correctly... | 12:09 |
| aki | so the netinstall iso is broken | 12:09 |
| rrq | a bit of a jump from having difficulties on that toshiba :) | 12:10 |
| aki | it's not a toshiba it's thinkpad | 12:10 |
| rrq | right | 12:10 |
| fsmithred | I think he's talking about mine | 12:11 |
| fsmithred | I tested this netinstall on my T420 and it worked | 12:11 |
| fsmithred | hm, I said you should get isolinux boot menu, but I just looked at the T420 and remembered that it boots uefi. | 12:12 |
| fsmithred | but that shouldn't matter for the firmware | 12:12 |
| aki | I'm not using UEFI | 12:13 |
| aki | MBR + primary for BSDs ans extended partiton with logicals for Linux | 12:13 |
| rrq | if you could arrange for that syslog dump it could be a good thing to look at, to see what the problem condition might be | 12:14 |
| fsmithred | camera | 12:15 |
| aki | I could save dmesg / syslog but I need to connect some othe fs | 12:15 |
| rrq | the firmware is loaded and reloaded umpteen times, so off hand I'm guessing the wireless adapter is awfully slow to get going, or that there is some difficulty in mounting the firmware disk | 12:16 |
| aki | from this netinstall after ctrl F2 I tried: | 12:16 |
| aki | # mount /dev/sda2 /mnt | 12:16 |
| aki | # mount /dev/sda5 /mnt | 12:16 |
| aki | etc | 12:16 |
| aki | and it failed (with no useful explanation) | 12:17 |
| aki | So where can I save it? | 12:17 |
| rrq | the syslog should tell that it mounts the devuan cd wit identification line and all | 12:17 |
| rrq | you might run the installer without network to get a file system to save things on, then run again and mount that hd to deposit syslog on at that dialog | 12:19 |
| aki | for mounting the error message is: no such file or directory | 12:20 |
| aki | (valid block device and /mnt does exist) | 12:20 |
| rrq | is there a /mnt ? | 12:20 |
| rrq | (too slow) | 12:20 |
| fsmithred | is it /dev/sdb? | 12:20 |
| * rrq biab | 12:21 | |
| aki | the block files are present in /dev | 12:21 |
| aki | yes it is correct | 12:21 |
| aki | the /mnt is present and not used for mounting | 12:22 |
| aki | id shows I'm root | 12:22 |
| aki | I changed the block and now the message is: Invalid argument | 12:23 |
| aki | which one?? | 12:23 |
| aki | got it! | 12:25 |
| aki | It cannot mount ext2/3/4.. so I created an ntfs partition and it can be mounted.... | 12:25 |
| aki | cause there is mount / mount.lowntfs-3g / mount.ntfs / mount.ntfs-3g | 12:26 |
| aki | you will have the dmesg in a few minutes | 12:27 |
| aki | https://pages.mini.pw.edu.pl/~kozlowskim/dmesg | 12:32 |
| aki | btw: why this iso can mount ntfs and cannon mount ext?? | 12:33 |
| fsmithred | I just confirmed that last bit. Can't mount ext4 partition from the 3.1.1 installer. (also from a chimarea netinstall from a couple weeks ago) | 12:52 |
| rrq | mmm possible to get syslog? the dmesg stops before the juicy bits | 12:57 |
| fsmithred | I can get syslog, but it sees wlan0 OK here. | 12:59 |
| rrq | the installer needs to get to the menu part and a bit further on that where it tries to mount the CD for firmware purposes | 13:00 |
| aki | I'll take a few minutes but the answer is: yes, I can upload a syslog. Do you need it? | 13:01 |
| rrq | thanks. would be good | 13:02 |
| rrq | (from the netinstall attempt) | 13:03 |
| aki | btw: why there is no "less"? no "mount.ext?" ? | 13:04 |
| rrq | the boot loader loads up a little later from the iso; you only see what's in its initramfs | 13:05 |
| rrq | you may inistall the base system without network from the ISO and it then gives a somewhat more cabale system | 13:06 |
| rrq | and then you need to have the cd as a sources.list point for manual installation of firmware | 13:07 |
| rrq | cabale = capable | 13:07 |
| aki | https://pages.mini.pw.edu.pl/~kozlowskim/syslog | 13:08 |
| DPA | "mount.ext?" isn't a thing anyway. That one is handled by the kernel, not userspace/fuse. May need a module, though. | 13:08 |
| rrq | mmm the "firmware cdrom" should have been mounted from /dev/sdb1 | 13:12 |
| rrq | akil: are there many physcal usb devices ? that you could rerrange? | 13:27 |
| DPA | I think one thing that can cause "Invalid argument" errors is if the kernel doesn't support a feature or flag enabled in an ext filesystem. | 13:29 |
| DPA | That can happen if, for example a too new mkfs.ext4 from backports or so was used to create it, but the kernel is too old for it, from stable or so. | 13:29 |
| fsmithred | I'm getting /dev/sdb1 mounted on /cdrom here, but if I manually try to mount /dev/sdb5 on /mnt, I get the invalid argumant message. sdb5 is ext4 | 13:33 |
| fsmithred | sorry, sda5 | 13:34 |
| aki | there are not to many usb devices (except those built-in) | 13:39 |
| aki | invalid argument because it seems non to support ext at all. I tried with ext3 - I don't think there are too old kernels... | 13:40 |
| gnarface | isn't partition 5 usually a container partition for the extended logical partitions $5+ | 13:40 |
| gnarface | i mean #5+ | 13:40 |
| fsmithred | gnarface, I'm using gpt here | 13:41 |
| fsmithred | I think #2 is the usual container and #5 is the first logical | 13:43 |
| DPA | cat /proc/filesystems will show supported file systems. Also, I think that should be another error message. | 13:51 |
| DPA | You could also try creating an FS to check if that mounts: truncate -s 1G test.img; mkfs.ext4 test.img; mkdir test; mount test.img test | 13:51 |
| rrq | (got called off of==for a moment) ... /dev/sdb1 is iso9660 and it's certainly mountable by code on the installer iniramfs | 14:10 |
| fsmithred | cat /proc/filesystems lacks ext2,3,4 | 14:12 |
| rrq | yes, I think ext file system module gets loaded later from the iso pool, prior to partitioning | 14:15 |
| fsmithred | checking... | 14:17 |
| rrq | your syslog has some line saying "beowulf" | 14:18 |
| fsmithred | ok, more filesystems are available when the paritioner gets loaded | 14:20 |
| fsmithred | afk | 14:20 |
| rrq | hmm I wonder of "cdrom-detect" gets confused by the presence of a mountable ntfs? ... believing that to be the cd and then stop looking? | 14:23 |
| rrq | aki: would another syslog dump be possible? after you "deleting" the ntfs partition, and then run it a bit fursther, past the failing network setup dialog and maybe unto partitioning? | 14:27 |
| aki | deleting the ntfs would not be a good idea. I can just detach the hdd. Would it be OK? | 14:28 |
| rrq | mmm ... no, maybe just a longer syslog.. there's a caching problem for it so it get cut off still too early | 14:30 |
| aki | with the hdd detached there is no difference | 14:33 |
| aki | ok, I'm leaving. Sorry. | 14:33 |
| aki | Bye | 14:33 |
| Demindiro[m] | Isn't `apt-get install devuan-keyring --allow-unauthenticated` terribly insecure? | 21:08 |
| mason | Demindiro[m]: You're better off getting it manually from something with a certificate at least. | 21:09 |
| mason | Demindiro[m]: I'd recommend at least wget https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-keyring/devuan-keyring_2017.10.03_all.deb | 21:09 |
| mason | since if you can't trust pkgmaster, the game's up | 21:09 |
| Demindiro[m] | I did that, the instructions should be updated though I think | 21:10 |
| mason | Demindiro[m]: Ping whomever wrote the instructions you were following and please explain the issue to them. | 21:10 |
| Demindiro[m] | https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/buster-to-beowulf | 21:10 |
| mason | Ah. :/ | 21:10 |
| mason | Demindiro[m]: Yeah, I've explained this issue once or twice but I don't think I actually got the issue across effectively. | 21:11 |
| rwp | mason, Is there a public repository for the web pages that we might create patches against as a contribution? | 21:16 |
| mason | rwp: There's https://git.devuan.org/ | 21:16 |
| mason | rwp: I believe everything's there. I'm not wholly clear on what's visible. | 21:17 |
| rwp | Thanks for the pointer mason! I will browse around there and see what I can figure out. | 21:17 |
| mason | cool | 21:17 |
| golinux | rwp: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/www.devuan.org/src/branch/new-beta/source/os | 21:51 |
| golinux | That's the one we work on before it's published. | 21:52 |
| rwp | Thanks golinux. How are translations handled? I am mostly illiterate knowing only one language. | 21:56 |
| golinux | rwp: Our first release had some translations of www but they weren't maintained. There are currently a few translations for the installation instructions. | 22:05 |
| golinux | These days it's pretty easy to get reasonable page translations. | 22:06 |
| golinux | Less for us to maintain. | 22:07 |
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