libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2021-05-12

sgageBack in my music days, my bandmates called me EC. It did not stand for00:00
sgageEric Clapton (though I was a good guitarist!). It stood for Easily Confused :-)00:00
golinuxReminder . . . this is a technical support not an OT channel00:02
golinux#devuan-offtopic is for that00:02
sgageand with that reminder, I am off to make dinner (hi golinux! hope you're well)00:02
golinuxYes. thank you.  And you too EC00:03
fullofquestionswell i'm easily confused by linux, and still a crap guitarist00:03
fullofquestionssorry / end of off topic00:03
rwpSometimes people accidentally run programs as root in their non-root home directory.  Those can be found with "find . -user root -ls" and then fixed.00:11
rwpBecause sometimes those end up with files and directories that need to be writable by the user but then become locked to root.00:12
rwpHowever running X as root does run it in root's home directory.  But that's NOT RECOMMENDED due to X not being developed to run as root and therefore there is bound to be permission problems created due to it.00:13
fullofquestionsI got this by running it (as normal user)00:14
fullofquestions  2752556     48 -rw-r--r--   1 root     root        45794 Mar 26 01:48 ./package_list00:14
fullofquestions  2759469      4 -rw-------   1 root     root          594 May 10 16:32 ./nano.save00:14
rwpRight.  Exactly those types of files.  I don't use nano but that looks like it would hurt nano running as a normal user.00:14
rwpAnd the package_list is probably something from synaptic.  Since I saw that you had run synaptic.  So that one probably won't hurt.00:15
fullofquestionssame results as root btw00:15
rwpBut I would either change the owner:group of nano.save or remove it.  "sudo chown $USER: nano.save" should do it.00:15
rwpfullofquestions, Also be careful pasting into any of the Freenode IRC channels.  The anti-abuse bot triggers on large pastes globally and will automatically kick you from the channel.00:17
rwpInstead it is better to use a pastebin and then paste the URL to it.  Any of a variety of pastebins are available.  https://termbin.com/ has the advantage when pasting command output. But paste.debian.net is better for interactive cutting and pasting.00:18
fullofquestionsalso wine seems to be looking in system32 for .exe of programs placed elsewere and/or doesn't read \+space in place of space for folder/file names00:21
fullofquestionsor I'm getting something wrong00:21
fullofquestionsyeah I'm aware of and using (paste.debian.net) for larger pastes after a bot warning + previous advice00:21
rwpI have never really been happy with wine and therefore don't use it anymore.  I use a Windows VM instead now.  But "path" always includes system32 along with other directories so system32 has always been a place possible to put exe files.00:23
fullofquestionslike manually move the exe there?00:24
rwpWhat?  *You* were the one who says "also wine seems to be looking in system32 for .exe of programs placed elsewere..." I was just reacting to that statement.00:24
rwpBut wine really is Windows and Windows in Wine questions would probably have better help in a #wine specific channel.00:26
fullofquestionsI'm just asking if you ment moving the exe would make it work00:26
fullofquestionsmoving the exe there*00:26
rwpHow would I know enough about what you are doing in order to suggest something like that?00:26
rwpBack in the day... on a real Windows system... one could "Run..." the "cmd" command, get a Microsoft console, type in "path" and Enter, and it would display the configured path.00:29
rwpI have no idea how that applies to wine.00:29
fullofquestionsI'm trying to run a program path + exe with spaces in folders and the exe name. I can't figure it out after trying everything I've read in guides or been adviced so far. So i thought that maybe you ment the answer could be moving the exe to .wine/drive_c/windows/system32/00:32
rwpI certainly did not mean to imply or suggest that.00:33
fullofquestionsok, but no need to get angry either00:34
rwpI am not angry.  Text is always hard to emote.  I am simply being very factual.  Which can come off as harsh.  But I am not.00:34
fullofquestionsok00:35
rwpHave you tried quoting the spaces?  Something like: $ "./.wine/drive_c/some path here/file with spaces.exe"00:35
rwpSpaces are not significant to Unix/BSD/GNU/Linux/Devuan in any way.  But the command line shell splits on white space.  But groups those characters if quoted.00:36
rwpI also imagine that a graphical file browser such as Thunar, Nautilus, or other, will handle the white space correctly too.00:38
fullofquestionsThunar seems ok with the spaces wine creates if that's what you mean. But wine seems to be working only with terminal commands.00:40
rwpAt this point I would check in with the wine experts over on the #winehq channel and see if they have better words of wisdom.00:42
rwphttps://www.winehq.org/irc00:42
rwpThis also looks useful: https://wiki.winehq.org/Wine_User%27s_Guide#How_to_install_and_run_Windows_programs00:44
rwpI want to note the use of quote marks in the examples.  I feel confident part of the problem is there.00:45
fullofquestionsyeah ' or " makes things easier00:58
fullofquestionsas per your advice + info on the guide got to the next step but seems I'm missing the following01:00
fullofquestionserr:winediag:SECUR32_initNTLMSP ntlm_auth was not found or is outdated. Make sure that ntlm_auth >= 3.0.25 is in your path. Usually, you can find it in the winbind package of your distribution.01:00
rwpNo idea.  Seems very Windows specific to me.  Try the wine hq folks as I am sure they will recognize that problem.01:01
fullofquestionssomeone suggests sudo apt-get remove winbind && sudo apt-get install winbind01:02
fullofquestionswill that work for devuan like it's suggested for ubuntu?01:02
rwpYes.  That would be the same with all of the Debian derived distributions.01:03
rwpI am speaking only about the apt-get remove and apt-get install part.  I know nothing about winbind.01:03
rwpAnd instead of "remove" I suggest "purge".  To purge off any /etc config files.  Then the install will be pristine.  apt-get purge foo; apt-get install foo01:04
fullofquestionsYeah I guess I could be missing a version that's not available on devuan01:04
rwpYou can tell if there are config files remaining after a remove that was not purged: dpkg -l | grep ^rc01:05
rwpIn Beowulf the version of winbind is 4.9.5, which is certainly newer than 3.0.25. Therefore I would think that it wanted a wine version of winbind and not a Linux version.01:08
rwpI am sure the #winehq folks would know.  Seems right up their topic area.01:09
fullofquestionsWhat windows emulator do you use? I'd like to check that since wine seems anoying so far and I already have my old windows drive full of installed programs01:09
rwpI don't use any windows emulator.  The only use for Windows I have is to run old games that require it.  Doing that I run a full virtual machine.01:10
rwpI am using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libvirt but that is a pretty heavy framework.  Good for novices however.01:11
fullofquestionsyeah that's the one I ment01:11
fullofquestionsand I mostly want it for the same reason + my hardcore isn't terrible01:12
flingShould I downgrade from chimaera if I want to use more up-to-date software?08:49
adhocfling: is what you are looking for in back ports ?08:50
tuxd3vto get more updated you need to go to ceres08:50
flingadhoc: jami08:51
xinomilochimaera has the same version as ceres08:51
flingbut bewulf has newer version08:51
xinomilo?!08:52
tuxd3vhow can that be?08:52
xinomilonope08:52
tuxd3vceres is the most up to date08:52
xinomilobeowulf has an older version08:52
xinomilohttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=jami08:53
flingoh now I see, thanks.08:53
adhocdebian buster has; 20190215.1.f152c98~ds1-1, beowulf has 20190215.1.f152c98~ds1-108:54
flingwhat is .1.f152c98~ds1-1 about?08:55
xinomilocould be git commit reference08:55
fullofquestionsafter a display bug + fixing it with restart, my middle mouse button has a weird function on rolling12:27
fullofquestionsit hides and unhiddes programs in the taskbar12:28
gnarfacethat's probably expected behavior actually12:33
fullofquestionsok, maybe it is and i didn't notice it before12:34
gnarfaceor maybe your alt key is stuck down12:34
gnarfaceor something like that12:34
gnarfacebut it seems normal based on my experience with older window managers; it still counts as a mouse button12:34
gnarfacethere's probably a way to bind it to something else12:35
onefangScrolling mouse wheel on my panel switches between the virtual desktops, so would only show those programs shown in the currently shown virtual desktop.  YMMV12:35
rrqon xfce4 you'll find a tick box on the accessibility tab of the "Window Manager Tweaks" setting dialogue, to untick.12:39
fullofquestionsalt seems fine, f1 and f4 were a little stuck by fine now. I don't mind it actually, was just wondering if it was something persisting from the display bug since during that it was the first time i noticed it12:40
gnarfacenah, if i mousewheel with the cursor over a window titlebar in enlightenment, it shades & unshades the window12:41
gnarfaceit's very common for these to be bound to stuff they wouldn't be in windows12:41
fullofquestionsyeah it also works that way12:42
gnarface"esoteric mouse button usage" is a very common sticking point for users making the transition12:42
fullofquestionsplus when windows are minimized, it has the function I first described12:43
gnarfaceit won't necessarily do the same thing if you change to a different window manager12:43
fullofquestionsmakes sense12:44
fullofquestionsHow well would a virtual machine like qemu (or whatever other, preferable option) would handle old-ish (5-20 years old mostly) windows programs? Would I also need windows drivers for it to work?13:04
adhocfullofquestions: we used to use bochs for that sort of thing13:37
adhocfullofquestions: hardware support is the real questions, what hardware do you want to emulate/simulate ?13:39
fullofquestionsprobably win7 64bit13:40
fullofquestionsi had that and it run all those programs fine13:40
fling>> NOTE: The next release will be the 28th May. NOTE2: client-gnome is now deprecated and jami-qt should be used16:10
flinghttps://git.jami.net/savoirfairelinux/ring-client-gnome/-/wikis/Changelog16:10
flingWill qt client get packaged instead?16:10
flinghttps://git.jami.net/savoirfairelinux/jami-client-qt16:10
flingIs it a bad idea to add this to sources.list? -> https://dl.jami.net/nightly/debian_10/ jami main16:12
fullofquestionscan i somehow csee a log of this chat?16:13
fullofquestionssee*16:13
gnarfacethe link is in the channel topic16:13
fullofquestionsty16:14
flingjami : Depends: libappindicator3-1 (>= 0.4.90) but it is not installable16:21
flingDepends: jami-daemon (= 20210503.1.f692e28~dfsg1-1) but 20210112.2.b757bac~ds1-1 is to be installed16:21
DPA/lib/init/init-d-script is pretty neat for writing very short / simple init scripts, but I've run into a few bugs with it:16:26
DPA 1) Checking the status ignores the pidfile, as the option arguments must come before the positional arguments, on that line: `status_of_proc "$DAEMON" "$NAME" ${PIDFILE:="-p ${PIDFILE}"}` .16:26
DPA    (Because of that, it just assumes /var/run/$PROGNAME.pid instead)16:26
DPA 2) For python3 scripts, stopping them fails. This is probably because the script name isn't the process name (which is "python3"). (That may also mess up the exec check).16:26
DPA    Removing --name and --exec from that start-stop-daemon command in /lib/init/init-d-script works, but probably isn't quiet the right thing to do.16:26
fullofquestionsI created a forum thread for my questions to avoid spamming here https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=432716:36
flingI installed libjsoncpp1 from ubuntu 20.0416:40
* fling feels dirty16:40
fullofquestionsIs it a known bug or something on my end that changing some clock properties hides it and you have to add a new one to the panel?16:57
luser978xfce4?16:59
fullofquestionsI think so, the default17:00
fullofquestionsI've changed a couple minor things (like color) but I think the same happens with every combo I've tried it on17:01
fullofquestionsAnd when the installation was completely fresh as well17:01
luser978fullofquestions: I have not met your problem.19:14
fullofquestionstry changing the default Clock Options - Format to something else. This is one of the things that hiddes the clock for me (only a tiny bar remains) and empties all it's settings. Only fix is re-adding the clock.19:25
luser978ah.20:28
rwpDPA, The init-d-script is useful for most compiled daemons but isn't perfect for edge cases.  It was an attempt to make it easier (declarative) for the 99.44% case that people were complaining about.23:35
rwpIn those other cases such as interpreted programs where the names don't match it is good just to write a standard init script and do the right thing there.23:36

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