| rwp | Walex, At the time that Dijkstra wrote GOTO considered harmful though most programming was done in a very unstructured way. And structured programming languages were yet to be popular. | 00:18 |
|---|---|---|
| tuxd3v | ok there seems to exist a new NanaoPi Neo Air image | 01:36 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 01:36 |
| rkta | The chimera netinstaller complains about missing iwlwifi firmware. Is this expected? | 11:14 |
| UsL | rkta: non free contrib perhaps? | 14:12 |
| rkta | UsL: During the installation? o0 | 14:13 |
| rkta | And btw, I don't need help. I wanted to confirm if it is a bug or expected. | 14:14 |
| luna-is-here | rkta: I do not know for sure, but Debian used to exclude all packages from contrib and non-free from the installer, which includes many firmware blobs. Hence, I would assume the same is true for Devuan. And since the package iwlwifi-firmware is in non-free, I suppose this is on purpose. | 14:36 |
| rkta | Well, the beowulf installer has or claimes to have non-free firmware. | 14:46 |
| fsmithred | rkta, yes, it's normal for that question to show up at the beginning. In most cases, you can ignore it because the installer will install the firmware if you have hardware that needes it. | 14:47 |
| fsmithred | To avoid getting any non-free firmware, choose expert install and you must also choose a mirror. | 14:48 |
| fsmithred | needes/needs | 14:48 |
| rkta | fsmithred: Does this mean when asked to provide the FW on external media I say 'no' and the installer will install it anyways? | 14:48 |
| fsmithred | correct | 14:48 |
| fsmithred | we inherit that question from debian. The difference is that we provide the non-free firmware in the regular isos. Debian does not. | 14:49 |
| rkta | Ok, now it's too late to try, but good to know. | 14:49 |
| fsmithred | That question is still needed to do an offline install and still get some broadcom wireless firmware installed. | 14:49 |
| rkta | providing the non-free stuff in the iso is the saner option, ihmo | 14:50 |
| fsmithred | There are a few that require you have an internet connection to get the firmware you need to have an internet connection. | 14:50 |
| fsmithred | :) | 14:50 |
| rkta | I still had the problem, that exchanging keys with the network failed sometimes. I tried multiple times to spot a pattern - which I don't. And my passphrase for the wifi was 12345678, so, yes, I'm sure I didn't had a typo. :) | 14:53 |
| fsmithred | oh, that's odd. I had trouble with a passphrase that contained special characters but not with all lower case. | 14:58 |
| fsmithred | maybe change it to abcdef and try. | 14:59 |
| rkta | fsmithred: It's too late to try anything, sorry. | 15:00 |
| rkta | And sometimes it worked with 12345678, sometimes it didn't. In the end I got it to work with my regular wifi. | 15:01 |
| joerg | heisenbug | 16:03 |
| luser978 | it was the cat. Schroedinger's. | 16:46 |
| luser978 | I feel that a sufficiently complex software (like systemd and not only) acquires a Windows like behavior sooner or later, stops being deterministic, and develops a cargo cult followership in forums. No-one understands what it does, so users swear by cult remedies to make it work. | 16:49 |
| yeti | “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” | 17:15 |
| yeti | and magic is what we dont understand | 17:15 |
| yeti | we are driving full throttle towards a complexity wall | 17:16 |
| yeti | or are already there | 17:16 |
| yeti | maybe just the "sonic" boom hasnt reached everyone | 17:16 |
| IanJ | Join the reductionist revolution. Use simple software and protocols, be happy. | 17:18 |
| yeti | what I do @home isnt critical | 17:19 |
| yeti | and where the critical stuff happens, there I have some ears but no influence | 17:20 |
| IanJ | Spread the word at your workplace and lead by example. | 17:20 |
| onefang | Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology. B-) | 17:21 |
| yeti | magic is influencing causality chains by means we do not yet understand | 17:22 |
| yeti | (in the optimism we may somewhen grok em) | 17:22 |
| yeti | and we should grok the technology we use | 17:22 |
| yeti | everything else is madness | 17:23 |
| IanJ | You have more influence than you think. Just by talking to people, starts a ripple that moves outwards. Share your ideas and concerns. | 18:27 |
| onefang | Maybe sharing them on #devuan-offtopic might be best. | 18:28 |
| luser978 | spread the word and you'll be free (Beatles) | 18:29 |
| rkta | Does one have to be subscribed to the devuan-dev ML to post? | 18:32 |
| rkta | nvm, I got a response my mail needs to be moderated (used the wrong From: and suffered by silently dropped mails on other lists). | 18:36 |
| IanJ | onefang, I quit devuan offtopic because I got tired of hearing people harping on about leenode. | 18:39 |
| IanJ | I also didn't mean share them here. | 18:39 |
| IanJ | I'm also quite happy to quit here too if having the occasional line of conversation in an otherwise dead channel is a problem. | 18:42 |
| onefang | This is a support channel, dedicated to Devuan support. | 18:44 |
| sgage | IanJ, things roll off topic here all the time, and at some point someone says | 18:46 |
| sgage | take it to off topic. Don't take it so personally. The point is, people trying | 18:47 |
| sgage | to help sometimes have to wade through swaths of silliness (I've been guilty, too!) | 18:47 |
| sgage | That's why there's off-topic. | 18:47 |
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