libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2021-07-20

vvandeCan I install a .deb package on Devuan 3.1.1?01:39
debdogdepends. devuan uses .deb for packaging. but that does not mean all .debs are compatible01:42
gnarfacewell, and what's worse, not all incompatible debs will refuse to install01:44
gnarfacesometimes the incompatibilities aren't apparent until it's too late01:44
golinuxvvande: Not directly from Debian.01:45
golinuxUse the Devuan repos.01:45
golinuxOops . . . a frankendevuan . . .01:46
golinuxis a possibility if you use 3rd party repos01:46
vvandegolinux, is there a Skype program in the Devuan repos. (I had assumed not)01:46
vvandeI don't want to use Skype, but I have a suitable laptop and other people are unable to change.01:47
golinuxhttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/ is your friend.01:48
golinuxProbably no skype there though.01:48
vvandethanks for that link, I'll look, just in case01:49
golinuxHope you can get it working.01:49
vvandeSkype is evil though.01:49
golinuxYup.01:49
vvandeI tried Firefox plugin. Won't work. I tried Chromium, but it only works with Chromium-Microsoft. lol01:50
golinuxTry vivaldi01:50
debdogaccording to https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10328/what-are-the-system-requirements-for-skype it should™ work01:50
vvandeThere is a .deb on MS servers. I'll try that. Not holding my breath though.01:50
vvandehmm, I'll try Vivaldi. I wouldn't have thought though. They probably mean Vivaldi running on Windows. haha01:51
golinuxCouldn't you use https://meet.jit.si/01:52
golinux?01:52
vvandewould love to01:53
vvandebut there are too many people involved. It's a group that I want to join.01:53
golinuxIt works pretty well and nothing to install01:53
golinuxLike how many?01:54
vvandeI'm not sure yet. I think about 20.01:54
golinuxThat could start to push it. Problem will be the connections not being stable or strong enough01:55
golinuxDoesn't hurt to give it a test.  You can change the setting to very low res to keep the connection from dropping01:56
vvandeI'm new to video conferencing. But I've used Zoom, and it even worked on Devuan ASCII01:57
vvandeLocal government uses Webex, and that works too. Just Skype is dysfunctional. lol01:58
golinuxI use jitsi on jessie!01:58
vvande:)01:58
fsmithredskype works just fine on devuan02:00
fsmithreddownload the deb package from MS02:01
fsmithredassume that it is spyware02:01
UsLI have a vague memory zoom ignored the settings I made in sysv rc conf and always autostarted anyway.. So spyware there as well.02:04
fsmithredI just found out recently that you don't need to install the zoom software on your computer. Plain old (spyware) browser works.02:04
fsmithredchromium02:04
fsmithredI didn't try ff02:05
UsLI tried FF but it lagged so much I couldn't even move see my cursor.02:05
UsLjit.si is good though. No lag.02:06
vvandeyeah, Zoom is great in my browser.02:06
vvandefsmithred, thanks for that info. I just downloaded the Zoom software from Ms.02:07
UsLmy laptop is from 2006. Core 2 duo thing.. I can't blame it..02:07
UsL: )02:07
fsmithredzoom from MS???02:07
fsmithredskype from ms, zoom from zoom02:07
vvandeoops, I meant Skype02:08
fsmithredwhew02:08
vvandeI've never in my life downloaded anything from MS before now.02:08
fsmithredlol02:08
fsmithredmake your own live iso with skype and whatever else, and run it in a VM when you want to use it.02:09
fsmithredor boot from live-usb02:09
fsmithrednot on core 2 duo02:09
fsmithredwell, voice maybe02:09
vvandeI haven't figured out how to get VMs integrated with camera etc. But I normally run FreeBSD here and I'm not going to add a camera etc.02:10
vvandeThe laptop is great, it has camera and mic built in. And I won't use it for anything else anyway.02:10
fsmithredI did a jitsi meet running from live-usb. That worked well.02:11
vvandeinteresting. I will try jitsi meet some time. It seems to be the best choice out there.02:13
vvandeOK, it looks like skypeforlinux-64.deb installed just fine.02:16
vvandeThe laptop is upstairs, so I'll go up and see if it really worksed. lol02:17
nemofsmithred: hm. as it happens I need to do a recovery on one laptop after an attempted chimaera update failed to reboot04:14
nemoyou said you had some ISOs? maybe I'll give one of those a try on the USB drive here04:14
nemoeh. guess I'll just use whatever I can find on devuan.org04:15
fsmithredI have some experimental stuff04:15
fsmithredchimaera with runit04:15
fsmithredregular refracta isos are a good choice for recovery live-usb04:16
fsmithredbetter choice that plain devuan04:16
fsmithredbut those are only beowulf04:18
nemothat's what I'm grabbing now04:18
nemo/devuan_beowulf/minimal-live/devuan_beowulf_3.1.1_amd64_minimal-live.iso04:18
fsmithredoh04:19
nemohmmm this laptop has a an efi/devuan folder04:33
nemoand recently updated04:33
nemoI bet it's same problem I had booting with the other one04:33
nemothe fact that debian started signing their boot loader paths to avoid changing location during the boot04:33
nemowell. signing loader and forcing efi/debian04:33
nemowish I could remember what I did to fix it04:33
nemosomeone here helped me04:33
nemoprobably involved copying stuff to the debian folder...04:34
fsmithredif you're not using secure boot, remove grub-efi-amd64-signed04:34
fsmithredthe unsigned package will remain04:34
nemooh. yeah, I guess that would work. and I don't *need* it04:34
nemothought I did something else, but whatever04:34
fsmithredyou might have made a debian dir in the efi partition04:34
nemothere's a debian and a devuan.04:37
nemoboth were recently updated04:37
nemobut. hm. after apt remove grub-efi-amd64-signed   and rebooting, it still boots straight to windows. ugh04:38
nemoguess I gotta look up how to reinstall grub on efi, my attempted grub-install to /boot/efi after mounting the sdb1 efi boot partition to /boot/efi did not work04:38
nemo(we're not actually using windows. it's mostly there in case we needed it for a VM or warranty)04:39
fsmithredI usually chroot and then just 'grub-install && update-grub'04:39
fsmithredyou have to remember to mount the efi partition to /boot/efi04:40
fsmithredand I'm pretty sure there's a grub-install option to install to a different root, so you don't have to chroot04:41
gnarfacealso you have to remember that grub is very dumb and if you have multiple disks with multiple grub installs this will frequently go off the rails if you try it from a disk other than the first one04:41
nemoI just have the basic rescue ISO right now04:42
nemotrying again04:42
nemo /boot/efi is now the mounted EFI partition. timestamps show that EFI/debian was updated today (last try no doubt) and EFI/devuan has yesterday's date04:42
nemoprobably from the attempted chimaera upgrade04:42
fsmithredyeah, regular installer iso in rescue mode lets you reinstall grub04:42
nemooh?04:43
nemoI was just doing a chroot04:43
nemoguess I can try that04:43
nemomaybe it's smarter than me :)04:43
nemohm. wonder if I should get rid of EFI/devuan04:43
fsmithredit is04:43
fsmithredit will offer to open lvm or assemble raid if it sees it04:43
fsmithredyou can leave extra bootloaders04:43
fsmithredwhen I do test installs on efi hardware, grub installs a new bootloader for the new system04:44
fsmithredwhen I'm done testing that system, I remove that bootloader (with efibootmgr) and the previous one just takes over.04:44
fsmithreduse efibootmgr to remove the bootloader, and then you can remove the directory on the efi partition if you want. Or keep it if your uefi lets you change boot order. Mine does not.04:46
nemohm. maybe that's why it keeps going to windows04:54
nemowonder how it ever worked then04:54
fsmithredI'm pretty sure they keep changing something in grub. I've had to change refractainstaller a couple of times to keep up with it.04:58
fsmithredand there's a trick at the end of the installer isos that puts a grub.cfg in EFI/debian/04:58
fsmithredbecause that prefix is hardcoded04:58
nemoI do so hate uefi04:59
nemoI think I need to grab another iso04:59
fsmithrednot as much as I do04:59
nemothis one seems to not have efivarfs which is my guess as to why things keep failing04:59
nemoyou said there was one with a repair option?05:00
fsmithredif you can get to a boot device menu, you might be able to choose the older bootloader05:00
fsmithredany of the installer isos (the ones with debian-installer)05:00
nemofsmithred: computer seems to consistently go to windows boot menu05:00
fsmithredAdvanced options, Rescue05:00
nemolemme see if I can find some magic keystrokes to get to something else05:00
fsmithredis it HP?05:00
nemoLenovo ☹05:00
fsmithredwhich one?05:00
nemoideapad 320-15abr05:01
rrqusually F2 to get boot setup screen(s) ?05:02
nemoF12 it seems to say05:02
nemowell. I punched a bunch of things, lemme try that I guess05:02
fsmithredI made a live-usb for an ideapad recently, but I could not figure out how to boot from usb.05:04
nemoF12 gets me to boot menu - only options are HD, CD, LAN, Windows05:04
nemoHD sends me to widnows05:04
nemo*windows05:04
nemowelllp05:04
rrqpcsupport.lenovo.com says to use F2  or (Fn+F2)05:05
nemolemme find an ISO with a rescue option I guess05:05
nemooh? hm05:05
nemocan't hurt to try I guess05:05
fsmithredwhen the grub setup asks if you want to install to the removable media location, I think you might want to say yes.05:05
nemodefinitely wasn't F205:06
nemofsmithred: still have to get *to* a grub setup05:06
rrqhttps://pcsupport.lenovo.com/au/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/300-series/320-15abr/solutions/ht500216-recommended-way-to-enter-bios-ideapad05:06
nemo /devuan_beowulf/minimal-live/devuan_beowulf_3.1.1_amd64_minimal-live.iso  seems to be missing efivarfs05:06
fsmithredminimal-live iso is not uefi compatible05:06
nemoyeah. was getting that impression05:07
nemoso gotta find one that is05:07
nemothey unfortunately don't say it in the name05:07
nemoI guess I'll try minimal installer05:07
fsmithredthat one doesn't even have pae kernel05:07
nemonetinstall05:07
fsmithredyou installing beowulf or chimaera?05:07
nemochimaera was what I was updating to when everything broken05:08
nemo*broke05:08
nemobut for what I'm trying to do (chroot rescue) it surely doesn't matter what iso I get05:08
nemoalthough maybe I can just try a fresh chimaera install so long as I don't erase her data05:08
nemos/what iso I get/what iso I get so long as it supports uefi/ 😝05:08
fsmithredamd64 netinstall05:09
nemooh good since I just downloaded that ☺05:09
fsmithredthey all do, but that one is a smaller download05:09
fsmithredand if install from one of the bigger ones and don't choose a mirror...05:09
fsmithredyou don't get the full desktop05:09
fsmithredbut I think an even better choice is to start with just the standard system utils and add what you want after first reboot.05:10
rrqapparently that laptop type may also have a "Novo button" for a boot menu05:13
nemobeowulf netinstall rescue05:17
nemoExecuting grub-install /dev/sda failed05:17
nemothis is a fatal error05:17
nemoand a scary red screen05:17
nemowheeeee05:17
nemohm05:17
nemomaybe I need to make sure uefo is enabled in bios05:18
nemoI was screwing aroudn with "legacy" maybe that broke something05:18
uncloudedisn't the command supposed to be `grub-install --target=x86_64-efi` for UEFI?  Seems to work even without a device specified for me05:19
fsmithredI've only ever used 'grub-install'05:19
uncloudedwhich I guess makes sense if it can find the ESP and update the efivars05:19
fsmithredwell, occaionally --bootloader-id=05:19
masonnemo: Wait, UEFI and grub-install to /dev/sda doesn't sound right.05:21
nemowelp.  Removed legacy boot. errored due to secure boot. back to bios, turning that off, trying again...05:21
nemomason: oh? why?05:21
fsmithredbecause it installs to the efi partition05:21
fsmithredyou don't need to tell it where to put the bootloader05:21
masonnemo: You want grub-install --efi-directory=/boot/efifoo05:21
masonnemo: So, for mirrors here I run two ESPs and I grub-install --efi-directory=/boot/efi0 and grub-install --efi-directory=/boot/efi105:22
nemofsmithred: kay...05:22
uncloudedis that because UEFI doesn't support RAID1 yet?05:22
nemofsmithred: it was asking me to specify a location. dunno05:22
nemoand gave as an example /dev/sda05:22
nemoso was like. um. fine.05:22
fsmithredthat sounds like grub-pc05:23
masonunclouded: UEFI won't ever. Ubuntu automatically handles multiple ESPs. The rest of us have to use our own RAID or (better) just keep multiple copies.05:23
fsmithredare you still booted in that system;05:23
fsmithred?05:23
nemofsmithred: I'm working my way back to that place in the rescue again05:23
nemoooone sec05:23
masonnemo: Make sure your ESP is mounted before you try the install.05:24
masonthe grub-install05:24
fsmithredcan you recognize the difference between isolinux boot screen and grub boot screen?05:24
nemo[Rescue operations]05:25
nemoExecute shell in /dev/sda6  (the root - there's a bunch of stupid partitions for windows and windows rescue and efi)05:25
nemoExecute a shell in the installer environment05:25
nemoReinstall GRUB boot loader05:26
nemoForce GRUB installation to the EFI removable media path05:26
nemoChoose a different root file system05:26
nemoReboot the system05:26
nemoFirst time around I'd picked "reinstall" because it didn't say "force" or "removable media" which sounded wrong05:26
fsmithredwait05:26
fsmithreddo you know if you booted uefi or legacy?05:26
nemoUEFI05:27
fsmithreddoes /sys/firmware/efi exist?05:27
nemolegacy is turned off05:27
nemogotta get to a shell to check that05:27
fsmithredok, so reinstall grub05:27
nemooh. and also, last time I tried I got a secure boot error until I went into bios and disabled secure boot - that wouldn't happen with legacy05:27
fsmithredif it asks for a disk, abort.05:27
nemodevice for boot loader installation05:27
nemosigh05:27
nemoso that means legacy eh05:28
fsmithredyeah05:28
nemoHATE EFI *sob*05:28
nemolife used to be so simple05:28
nemoI knew my partitions. it was all straightforward05:28
nemono loading a gigabyte of malware in my boot partition..05:28
fsmithredwhen you're at the boot menu, determine whether TAB or e gets you to edit the boot command.05:28
fsmithredisolinux uses TAB and you get that with legacy bios boot05:29
fsmithredefi gives you grub menu. e to edit05:29
fsmithreddon't edit. just see what you've got.05:29
nemoe05:29
fsmithredholy shit05:29
fsmithredwhy is it asking for a device?05:29
* nemo shrugs05:29
nemowish I could screenshare ☺05:29
nemowell. I guess I could point a camera at the screen05:30
nemoyou could admire my underwear-clad attempts to fix this05:30
nemomeh. going to go back to rescue again05:30
uncloudedgah!  can't unread that!05:30
nemo☺ ☺05:30
nemowelp. back to rescue mode05:31
nemomaybe I'll try dropping to a shell this time05:31
fsmithredtime for sleep here. good luck.05:31
nemo'n805:31
unclouded`ls /sys/firmware/efi/`, which I think indicates having detected UEFI boot if it has files in it05:35
nemodropped to shell05:35
nemogrub-install05:35
nemoInstalling for x86_64-efi platform.05:35
nemogrub-install: warning: Cannot set EFI variable Boot000105:36
nemogrub-install warning: vars_set_variable: write() failed: No space left on device.05:36
nemogrub-install: warning: _efi_set_variable_mode: ops->set_variable() failed: No such file or directory.05:36
nemogrub-install: error: failed to register the EFI boot entry: No such file or directory.05:36
nemo /boot/efi is 14% used, 225 megs free05:36
nemo / has 304GB free05:37
uncloudedmight not be an issue here but "No space left on device" can also mean that there are too many entries in a directory.  The maximum was 512 when I tried05:37
nemoFAT32 thing?05:38
nemolovely05:38
nemoany way to just clobber efi without destroying everything?05:38
uncloudedprobably a bad idea if you want to dual boot Windows05:38
nemowow. there's a lot of stuff in efibootmgr05:38
uncloudedthe ESP is shared with Windows I guess?05:38
nemoyeah, was trying not to get rid of it05:39
nemowas what came w/ lapto05:39
nemowe are probably way past warranty, but was just in case I needed it05:39
nemohasn't been used since purchase though05:39
uncloudedis there a limit on the number of boot options in efivars?  it's stored in NVRAM after all05:39
uncloudedI think you can use efibootmgr to delete ones you don't need if you don't plan to boot via PXE or an optical drive05:40
nemoyeah, let's see05:40
nemoWindows Boot Manager, Setup, Boot Menu, Diagnostic Splash, OilDiagApp, ATA HDD, ATA HDD1, ATAPI CD, USP HD, PCI LAN IPv6, USB FDD, USP CD, NVMe, PCI LAN IPv405:41
nemostill only 14 entries though05:41
nemoCurrently on the USB HD05:41
uncloudedthink you'll use both USB CD and ATAPI CD?05:42
nemomaaaybe05:43
nemoI guess that does sound unlikely05:43
nemofine05:43
nemobut I don't see why this would matter05:43
nemoalso the windows boot manager and the HD options all have an * which I bet means "magic"05:43
uncloudedjust wondering what caused "Cannot set EFI variable Boot0001"05:43
nemobut I guess I can try05:43
nemounclouded: restricted to windows somehow?05:43
nemobut how did I get this working in the first place05:43
nemoI'd swear I didn't enable legacy boot05:43
nemobut... maybe I did. hm05:43
nemono. no. that can't be it05:44
nemohttps://github.com/mpalourdio/xps13/issues/113  ducking for error05:44
uncloudedI read on my travels that from EFI implementations assume Windows, but doesn't that mean that you can use --removeable, which uses EFI/BOOT?05:44
nemohmmm modprobe for efivarfs and efivars fails with this rescue image05:45
uncloudeddid you have files in /sys/firmware/efi/?05:45
nemoefi yes05:45
nemoefivars is empty05:45
uncloudedthat sounds much more promising05:45
nemobah. I'm going to try that "EFI removable media path" screwit05:46
nemoat worst I mess up windows05:46
nemosick of this. it's late05:46
nemocurses upon the creators of EFI05:47
nemofailed. dammit05:47
rrqpossibly you'll need to disable "windows boot manager" which you'd do in windows05:48
rrqthat should then let you reconfigure boot setup so that the devuan boot option comes first05:49
nemoin bios I'd already set windows boot manager to last place in boot order05:51
nemoalso, I'd use F12 to specify ATA HD05:52
nemoif that was setup correctly it should have loaded grub05:52
nemoBootOrder in efibootmgr confirms05:52
nemocurrently is USB HDD, ATA HDD, ATA HDD1, ATAPI CD, PCI LAN, USB FDD, USB CD, NVMe, Windows Boot Manager05:53
nemoin that order05:53
rrqok, and ATA HDD does have the EFI partition of type FAT or FAT32?05:54
nemofdisk -l says "EFI System" type...05:55
nemowhich I'm guessing is some sort of FAT05:55
rrqright, and you ran a "normal" install of devuan... hmm05:56
rrqdoes it have an UEFI shell?05:57
rrqit = the machine05:57
nemohmmm /sys/fimeware/efi/vars has a lot of vars of type dump-type0-*05:58
nemomaybe those are taking up all the room05:58
nemosome garbage crap05:58
nemo202 variables05:58
nemowait no05:59
nemoer yeah... 117 dump thingies05:59
nemolet's see if that could cause a prob05:59
nemohttps://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=94714205:59
nemohmmm06:00
nemolooks like I can maybe just delete them?06:00
nemo"06:00
nemoA workaround is to reboot 30 times (each reboot generates some garbage; my nvram is 128K; YMMV) and trigger firmware garbage collection.06:00
nemo"06:00
nemoyeah no06:00
nemolol06:01
nemohm now how to delete vars06:02
uncloudedthe EFI removable path thing probably won't help here.  it will just install grubx64.efi to EFI/BOOT instead of EFI/devuan06:03
uncloudedvars is probably the first issue06:03
uncloudedthis might be of use if man pages are not on the rescue CD: https://linux.die.net/man/8/efibootmgr06:04
nemoI mounted efivarfs to /tmp/cleanup06:04
nemothen did rm -rf dump-type0*06:04
nemofingers crossed06:05
nemo the sys/efi/vars did not change, but eh, let's see what a reboot does06:05
nemooooh06:10
nemono errors reported06:10
nemomaybe it was those stupid dump files06:10
nemotherefore lenovo's fault. shocker06:10
nemothat was it. wooooo06:11
nemohate lenovo. hate efi. but I have my grub boot again huzzah06:11
nemoaaand a nice MATE desktop. yaaay06:11
Xenguy8 -D06:15
uncloudedw00t!  Nice to see another failure mode in case it ever bites me in the a$$06:16
jason1234hi15:00
jason1234i boot devuan on notebook without wlan. so no net. however, devuan hangs at boot, cuz no net.15:01
jason1234Is there /proc/cmdline way to boot the kernel with unactivating the ethernet?15:01
GyrosGeierit shouldn't hang15:02
jason1234it does15:02
GyrosGeierhm15:02
GyrosGeierthe best way I could think of would be to blacklist the modules, I believe that can be done on the command line15:02
jason1234too compilcated15:03
jason1234is there a grub2 option to add it to unactivate teh net?15:03
GyrosGeierbut if it only hangs with dhcp, waiting for the timeout is probably fastest15:03
GyrosGeierno15:03
GyrosGeiermaybe there is a bios option15:03
jason1234sure there is into grub2 a way15:03
GyrosGeieror the rfkill switch on the laptop if it exists15:03
jason1234do you know that boot-live does unactivate by default hte net ?15:04
GyrosGeierit does not activate it at all -- which is different from your problem where it tries to activate and you need a way to disable that15:04
jason1234hmmm15:05
GyrosGeierduring boot, there is a program that configures the network15:06
GyrosGeierthe live CD doesn't have that15:06
jason1234in irdrd.img.gz ?15:06
jason1234initrd.?15:06
GyrosGeierno, during normal boot15:06
GyrosGeierpretty late15:06
jason1234i heard of no net in kernel option commands, some years ago15:07
GyrosGeierhave you tried letting it run into a timeout?15:08
GyrosGeierbecause if you can boot once, that solves a lot of problems15:08
jason1234i would prefer to not wait.. directly to talk to kernel15:08
jason1234surely, if it comes in grub2, would be fastst15:08
jason1234fastest15:08
GyrosGeieryes, but fixing a system is easier when it is booted15:08
GyrosGeierthe bootloader has no control over device enumeration15:09
rrqjason1234: I think the installer iso(s) have rfkill in their initrd .. and they have both mount and chroot15:09
fsmithredjason1234, are you using any gui network manager?15:09
jason1234or maybe to use the inird.img.gz of boot-live ?15:09
jason1234toram15:09
GyrosGeierbooting a rescue system is also an option15:09
GyrosGeiergoal 1 is to make the system accessible15:10
GyrosGeiergoal 2 is to find a solution15:10
GyrosGeierany solution that doesn't require the system to be accessible is going to be more complex15:11
fsmithredboot installer iso or live iso and the system should be accessible15:11
fsmithredwhat is it we are accessing?15:11
GyrosGeier/etc/network/interfaces most likely15:11
fsmithredsometimes ctrl-c will break through the hang15:12
GyrosGeierfor a laptop, it might make sense not to wait for the network during boot, ever15:12
GyrosGeierand just use a manager daemon15:12
nemofsmithred: so yeah, FWIW it was all lenovo's fault, looks like15:16
nemofsmithred: as soon as I deleted the junk vars, everything was fine15:16
jason1234yeap, but i would like to fix it right a boot of grub215:16
nemohttps://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2021/07/20/117:34
nemough ugh ugh17:34
nemohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27893181 HN discussion17:36
nemo5GB of RAM does make it a little hard to pull off on all but one of my devuan machines at home17:37
nemothe systemd thing in discussion I'm curious about17:37
GyrosGeieryes17:43
GyrosGeierthat's basically "if you make pid 1 crash, then the kernel panics17:43
GyrosGeier"17:43
golinuxThis is OT for here17:44
GyrosGeierindeed, there is nothing special here17:44
golinuxA better place would be #devaun-offtopic17:44
golinuxTry #devuan-offtopic.  LOL!17:45

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