| Guest92 | I got some random disconnection. Did anyone message me, in the meantime? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | brocashelm, here is a precomlied version of webbrowser for beowulf amd64 https://i.kalli.st/K1Qxw.zst | 00:01 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | *precompiled | 00:04 |
| nemo | Guest92: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=nvidia-driver&x=submit just to get you back in channel ☺ | 00:15 |
| Guest92 | Right! Thank you. :) | 00:15 |
| nemo | hm... | 00:16 |
| nemo | I'm rather surprised that there's such a big variation between ceres and chimaera | 00:16 |
| Guest92 | ceres is unstable, right? | 00:16 |
| nemo | yeeeeah, but I thought fsmithred said they were pretty close at this point. | 00:17 |
| nemo | but I do not know much about debian packaging ☺ | 00:17 |
| nemo | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=firmware-amd-graphics&x=submit for comparison purposes | 00:19 |
| nemo | identical | 00:19 |
| nemo | oh neat. it's even in beowulf backports | 00:20 |
| nemo | I switched to chimaera last year to get usable gaming on the family AMD GPU ☺ | 00:20 |
| nemo | (and firefox GL acceleration) | 00:20 |
| Guest92 | I did use MXLinux previously, but my pc crashed, and I tried again live install, and encountered a lot of issues, so I decided to try other distro. | 00:21 |
| nemo | I like devuan - most debian targetted stuff works with it, only a few modest problems. and folks here are helpful. I'm at gentoo/devuan mix at home/work now | 00:24 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | what is the appeal of mxlinux over devuan? | 00:24 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | why fragment? they seem like the same thing | 00:24 |
| nemo | BTW, funny workplace story. At work we are now up to 7 devuan servers (down 2 from peak) and 2 ubuntu servers. on devuan and ubuntu I've been using desktop installs because the people managing the VMs want a gui to log into | 00:25 |
| nemo | idling on a login screen on the devuan boxes w/ default install was taking 65MiB of RAM. It was taking 625MiB on the ubuntu 20.04 LTS | 00:25 |
| nemo | apparently purely due to ubuntu decision to default to gnome3/gdm ☺ | 00:26 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | what does devuan use, slim? | 00:27 |
| nemo | was in #ubuntu today trying to figure this out, since using ⅔rds of a gig of RAM just to show a PNG and a login prompt seemed excessive | 00:27 |
| nemo | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: yep | 00:27 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i never used the task-sel for desktop | 00:27 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i just used netinst-base and built up manually | 00:27 |
| nemo | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: thankfully installing slim seems to have worked fine on the ubuntus. now if only I could say the same for the rest of the distro | 00:27 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | can i ask, what are they using the the graphical login for on a vm hyervisor | 00:27 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | just to open xterm? | 00:28 |
| nemo | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: so. these are windows admins. they expect a gui and login prompt in the tab on the vm manager | 00:30 |
| nemo | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: they use it, I believe, to load network shares in a gui file manager for installing .deb - for firing up firefox to fetch packages to install from the kernel malware (er virus scanner) that they install, and to grab stuff from oracle and other 3rd party vendors | 00:30 |
| nemo | which is fine. I'm just glad we are at more than 0 linux servers these days | 00:31 |
| nemo | but the memory usage was pretty dumb | 00:31 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | why are they using a physical tty | 00:42 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | like | 00:42 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | going up to a physical rack | 00:42 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | even windows supports vnc | 00:42 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | you can do all those thing with X11 forwarding | 00:43 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | I don't ever physiclly touch production servers unless something goes terribly wrong | 00:43 |
| nemo | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: I'm talking about a non-physical tty | 00:43 |
| nemo | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: literally connecting to admin interface. one tab for hardware, one for system stats, one for the virtual monitor | 00:43 |
| Guest92 | Can I safely uninstall xserver-xorg-video-nouveau before installing nvidia-driver, and then restart? | 00:43 |
| nemo | that kind of thing | 00:43 |
| nemo | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: and if you're a windows admin, you expect a gui... | 00:43 |
| nemo | Guest92: I'd say it's always safe ☺ | 00:44 |
| gnarface | Guest92: yes but just blacklist it | 00:44 |
| nemo | Guest92: at worst you have to work from a VT instead of desktop ☺ | 00:44 |
| Guest92 | Thank you! How to do so? | 00:44 |
| gnarface | Guest92: it'll just get reinstalled next time you upgrade; put "blacklist nouveau" in a file ending with ".conf" in /etc/modprobe.d/ | 00:44 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | in /etc/modprobe.d/ | 00:45 |
| Guest92 | I am a littleafraid to do that with VT ;) | 00:45 |
| nemo | gnarface: he needs the nvidia firmware right? | 00:45 |
| gnarface | nemo: it should be part of their driver package set | 00:45 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | proritary driver has firmware blobs built into it | 00:45 |
| nemo | ok.... I thought there was a separate nvidia-nonfree | 00:45 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | it's also buggy as hell and kills 2d performance | 00:46 |
| gnarface | well the official nvidia drivers are all in non-free but there is a risk of missing packages though, since they have dozens of separate packages and aren't very good at properly defining dependencies between them | 00:46 |
| gnarface | i would recommend running "dpkg -l |grep nvidia" and "apt-cache search ^nvidia" and look for version discrepancies | 00:47 |
| Guest92 | gnarface: Ok. Thank you. I will blacklist like this. | 00:47 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/maintainers doesn't load | 00:48 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | in web browser but loads fine in other browsers | 00:48 |
| gnarface | nemo: there isn't a separate nvidia-nonfree, it just seems like stable backports is only there for the nvidia drivers | 00:48 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | says connection timeout | 00:48 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | is there some weird waf on that site that breaks http1.1 compliance? | 00:48 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | oh, nevermind it's working now | 00:49 |
| gnarface | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: make sure your time is accurate. recent changes to https protocols tightened how accurate your clock needs to be to well less than 5 minutes drift | 00:49 |
| gnarface | https and dns | 00:50 |
| gnarface | they don't work for shit now if your clock is off | 00:50 |
| gnarface | Guest92: probably worth mentioning that lots of people have to get the beowulf-backports kernel and nvidia driver combo to support current hardware, just fyi | 00:51 |
| Guest92 | I have in that folder dkms.conf, nvidia.conf, nvidia-blacklists-nouveau.conf, and nvidia-kernel-common.conf | 00:51 |
| Guest92 | Where to put blacklist nouveau ? | 00:51 |
| gnarface | add a new file of your own | 00:51 |
| Guest92 | Oh. I have it in that third already. | 00:51 |
| gnarface | the other files may be manipulated by package install/uninstall, so you might have to make sure to clean up after it | 00:52 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | 0.000000079 seconds slow of NTP time | 00:52 |
| Guest92 | Maybe because of the installation through nvidia-driver, but I got an message about conflict here. | 00:52 |
| gnarface | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: well, that should certainly be close enough | 00:52 |
| nemo | it's a little slow | 00:52 |
| nemo | but not that much | 00:52 |
| gnarface | Guest92: you're installing the ones from the repos not the shell script from nvidia.com right? | 00:52 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | hahaha | 00:53 |
| Guest92 | Yes. One from the repo. | 00:53 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | chrony is great | 00:53 |
| Guest92 | I had a bad time once, with the second one. | 00:53 |
| nemo | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: hm. works for me even in w3m | 00:53 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | it's working now | 00:53 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | transient hiccup probably | 00:54 |
| nemo | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: one thing I've observed with VMs is spinup lag | 00:54 |
| nemo | like if someone hadn't hit the git in past, oh, hour | 00:54 |
| nemo | both with commercial and our local ones | 00:54 |
| * CAPTCHA_REQUIRED SPOOLING TORPEDOS | 00:54 | |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | nemo how are you doing that | 00:55 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | shutting down services that don't get accessed | 00:55 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | can i do that with containers? | 00:55 |
| nemo | I don't know anything about their setup or ours | 00:55 |
| nemo | I've just noticed that behaviour | 00:55 |
| nemo | I'm not a sysadmin | 00:55 |
| nemo | it's gotten to point that if I have to do a demo on a test project that's idled for a long time, I make sure to hit it before the boss does | 00:55 |
| nemo | verify db, server, etc are all nice and snappy | 00:56 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | weird | 00:57 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | why not just use swapdisk? | 00:57 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | oh | 00:57 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | vms | 00:57 |
| rrq | guys, could you please keep offline chat to #devuan-offfline | 00:58 |
| rrq | or maybe it was *offtopic* | 00:58 |
| nemo | rrq: I think it started with speculating as to why git.devuan.org was failing to load for him ☺ | 00:59 |
| nemo | but should have halted sooner yes | 00:59 |
| gnarface | it's #devuan-offtopic but i think we at least used to have an infrastructure channel at #devuan-www | 01:04 |
| gnarface | (before the move) | 01:05 |
| golinux | Yes and it's for work on the Devuan website | 01:07 |
| golinux | Devuan has about a dozen channels | 01:07 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | rrq, what is offline chat? | 01:45 |
| rrq | that's where we send spammers and trolls ;) | 01:46 |
| Guest20 | After nvidia-driver installation I have all the time errors during package installation related to nvidia-persistenced | 02:24 |
| Guest20 | "E: nvidia-persistenced: installed nvidia-persistenced package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 1" | 02:24 |
| Guest20 | How to fix this? | 02:24 |
| Guest20 | Should I remove the nvidia-persistenced package? | 02:25 |
| gnarface | yea you don't need it | 02:29 |
| gnarface | you do need however, for sure, <i>at least</i> nvidia-driver, nvidia-support, nvidia-modprobe, nvidia-driver-bin and libgl-nvidia-glx | 02:30 |
| gnarface | i think if you install all those it should get there rest | 02:30 |
| gnarface | but run "dpkg -l |grep nvidia" afterwards to check to make sure all the versions match | 02:30 |
| gnarface | a couple might lag behind or have weird datestamp values as a version, but for the most part the whole list should be on the same version # | 02:31 |
| Guest20 | Ok. Thanks! :) | 02:42 |
| gnarface | once you run that list, you can try to "apt-get install" everything in it again one by one to make sure it's the latest one | 02:43 |
| gnarface | nvidia can't keep their dependencies right so you have to double check it | 02:43 |
| gnarface | and if something still isn't working you might have to do this all over again with the versions in beowulf-backports | 02:44 |
| Guest20 | Alright. Everything seems to run fine, now. | 02:47 |
| Guestyguest | Hi, I'm having difficulty installing devuan | 03:23 |
| Guestyguest | Using the latest desktop-live iso | 03:24 |
| Guestyguest | It's extremely, horrendously slow | 03:24 |
| Guestyguest | I've been waiting about 30 minutes to open the file manager | 03:24 |
| Guestyguest | currently it's just a window border with nothing in it yet | 03:24 |
| Guestyguest | I tried both the regular boot option and running from ram | 03:25 |
| Guestyguest | It's still about 300x slower than live ubuntu | 03:25 |
| gnarface | use the netinstaller instead | 03:25 |
| gnarface | the live installer needs a lot of ram | 03:25 |
| Guestyguest | I need nonfree firmware in order to connect to the internet | 03:26 |
| gnarface | it is on there | 03:26 |
| Guestyguest | I tried netinstall first, since I wanted a gui-less system, but it gave me the typical debian prompt to insert firmware on a usb | 03:26 |
| Guestyguest | I tried answering no, and then it started prompting me again for each and every missing binary during network setup | 03:27 |
| Guestyguest | ath-10k is my network adapter. Do you not include that firmware in the netinst image? | 03:28 |
| gnarface | i'm pretty sure all the firmware is included but there's a possibility your device is too new for the stable versions | 03:28 |
| Guestyguest | It's about 2 years old | 03:28 |
| gnarface | within the timeframe | 03:29 |
| gnarface | do you still have the netinstall image on hand though? i wonder if they've just put those packages in the "load additional installer components" menu | 03:29 |
| Guestyguest | I overwrote it with the desktop-live image lol | 03:29 |
| gnarface | how much RAM does the system have? | 03:30 |
| Guestyguest | 4 GB | 03:30 |
| gnarface | hmm, does it have a swap partition? | 03:30 |
| Guestyguest | I'm running it from USB so whatever's on the HDD shouldn't matter, right? | 03:30 |
| gnarface | it shouldn't but if you're low on RAM the live image will make use of any swap partitions it finds | 03:31 |
| gnarface | and if there aren't any well, it could hit a serious performance wall | 03:31 |
| Guestyguest | I bet thats what happened | 03:31 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure whether 4GB is enough to avoid that these days or not, it used to be enough but might be borderline now | 03:31 |
| Guestyguest | maybe its swapping on the thumbdrive haha | 03:31 |
| gnarface | that could be bad | 03:31 |
| Guestyguest | ok so is there another image I can use? | 03:32 |
| Guestyguest | something that includes firmware but doesn't need over 4 GB of ram? | 03:32 |
| gnarface | all the images besides the live one should be usable with as little as 128MB | 03:32 |
| Guestyguest | what about desktop? | 03:32 |
| Guestyguest | instead of desktop-live? | 03:33 |
| gnarface | should be fine afaik | 03:33 |
| gnarface | i haven't tested that one | 03:33 |
| gnarface | the netinstall should be fine too, it should still be possible to make it complete the install without a network connection | 03:33 |
| gnarface | then you could copy the firmware package from another machine | 03:33 |
| Guestyguest | echhhhhhh | 03:34 |
| Guestyguest | theres like 10 binaries it needs | 03:34 |
| gnarface | it has no physical ethernet port? wifi only? | 03:34 |
| Guestyguest | correct | 03:34 |
| Guestyguest | its a netbook | 03:34 |
| Guestyguest | I thought it would be perfect for a minimal gui-less linux system, lets see tho | 03:35 |
| Guestyguest | ok I'm trying the desktop iso now | 03:35 |
| gnarface | it really might be that it's barely too new and you'll need the backports versions of those packages | 03:36 |
| gnarface | but do a sanity check for me and boot the desktop iso in text expert mode | 03:36 |
| Guestyguest | ok hang on, I need to download it first | 03:36 |
| gnarface | ... then on the "load additional installer components" menu, before the networking step, double check the atheros firmware package isn't in that menu and needing manual selection | 03:37 |
| gnarface | this should work from the netinstall too | 03:37 |
| gnarface | but i admit i haven't tested this for a while | 03:37 |
| Guestyguest | np, you've been really helpful! I'll be back in a few minutes | 03:38 |
| gnarface | good luck, keep me posted | 03:41 |
| Guestyguest | download should finish in 30 | 03:42 |
| Guestyguest | ok I just rebooted into the devuan desktop iso | 04:42 |
| Guestyguest | wait, it prompted for the missing firmware, but then it didn't need it haha | 04:45 |
| gnarface | i think that it prompts no matter what, depending on your answers to other setup questions | 04:46 |
| gnarface | maybe | 04:46 |
| gnarface | the important part is it's working | 04:46 |
| Guestyguest | yes, thank you | 04:47 |
| Guestyguest | if there are any devs here, perhaps that prompt should be removed if the firmware is present in the install media? | 04:48 |
| Xenguy | Sounds like a bug report may be in order? | 04:49 |
| gnarface | it's not just about the network device i don't think... i think it can't know if there's more than one firmware package needed so it asks anyway in expert mode | 04:50 |
| gnarface | it's only a problem if then it does the network detection step again and there's still no network devices | 04:50 |
| gnarface | but even then you can skip it and just go without a network setup; the install should still be bootable | 04:51 |
| gnarface | but then you will of course have to configure networking manually after that | 04:51 |
| Guestyguest | It prompted me for firmware 4 times total, with 3 of those during the network detection step... so although it's not broken, it's at least confusing for new users. | 04:53 |
| gnarface | well, granted, but it's expected behavior inherited from the debian one | 04:53 |
| Guestyguest | It was after the third prompt that I decided to stop trying to use the original netinst image, so maybe that one would have worked aftter all too | 04:53 |
| gnarface | this whole distro was about not breaking expected behavior | 04:53 |
| gnarface | historically expected behavior | 04:53 |
| Guestyguest | ah, ok, so it's bug-compatible with debian then :P | 04:54 |
| Guestyguest | or annoyance-comaptible | 04:54 |
| gnarface | wherever possible | 04:54 |
| Guestyguest | lol jk | 04:54 |
| Guestyguest | hey so how important is the root password on a default devuan install? Is ssh and stuff enabled by default? | 04:54 |
| gnarface | it should ask about allowing root logins separately, probably next | 04:55 |
| gnarface | if you install sudo you can do without a root password | 04:55 |
| gnarface | not that i'd recommend that, but you have to decide for yourself whether or not sudo is a bigger vulnerability than your own brain encumbered with more than 1 password | 04:56 |
| gnarface | you should definitely deny ssh logins as root either way | 04:57 |
| Guestyguest | I've never really understood the problem with having an insecure root password though tbh | 04:58 |
| Guestyguest | If remote logins are disabled then why is it a problem? | 04:58 |
| gnarface | as long as they are it shouldn't be a problem unless it drives you to do something horrendously stupid like write it on your desk | 04:58 |
| Guestyguest | Assuming nobody has physical access to my computer | 04:58 |
| gnarface | for some people, just the act of mitigating the effort of remembering more than one password is enough justification to configure it to only have one password | 04:59 |
| gnarface | for the rest of people, the second password is a good additional security barrier in the case of some desktop software like firefox being compromised remotely by a malicious site | 04:59 |
| Guestyguest | oh ok, so having a strong root password is meant as a backup if an attacker exploits something else | 05:00 |
| gnarface | you're right that the concerns are much greater at an organizational level if it is a shared system instead of just a personal one | 05:00 |
| gnarface | right | 05:00 |
| gnarface | the filesystem and all the devices are stratified into isolated permission groups this way for security (security that systemd drives a truck right through) | 05:02 |
| Guestyguest | I really don't understand how systemd became so widely accepted. Shouldn't the corporate interests have tried pushing *against* making linux systems less secure? | 05:05 |
| Guestyguest | They're going to end up having systemd on their own systems and webservers now | 05:06 |
| gnarface | it's not really a conversation for this room, but they're infiltrated by bad actors | 05:06 |
| Guestyguest | oh, makes sense | 05:06 |
| golinux | There is money to be made in the security business | 05:07 |
| gnarface | we try to keep this room for support issues, bitching about it goes into #devuan-offtopic | 05:07 |
| golinux | Yes. Should be on offtopic | 05:07 |
| Guestyguest | ok ty | 05:07 |
| golinux | Try #devuan-offtopic | 05:10 |
| Guestyguest | Can I put my home partition on an exfat-formatted microsd card? | 05:11 |
| gnarface | you could but does exfat support unix filesystem permissions? | 05:12 |
| gnarface | it would be a mistake to use something that doesn't support unix filesystem permissions | 05:12 |
| Guestyguest | Would I have problems running executables from there? Or would there be other problems? | 05:14 |
| gnarface | well other than the insecurity of just having a filesystem for /home that is globally-writeable and globally-readable, yea there could be other problems when stuff tries to check and set permissions and they don't respond as expected | 05:18 |
| gnarface | for example the openssh client will full on refuse to work if the permissions on ~/.ssh are wrong | 05:18 |
| gnarface | it'll cause less obvious problems than you'd think but it's the equivalent to running chmod -R 777 | 05:18 |
| gnarface | and since i assume the point would be so you could have a shared directory windows can also read | 05:19 |
| gnarface | let me just suggest you quarantine it in /usr/local/ somewhere | 05:19 |
| gnarface | or install a linux filesystem driver for the windows install (there are a couple unofficial ones) | 05:19 |
| Guestyguest | I like the /usr/local/ idea, that's a good one | 05:24 |
| Guestyguest | I'm getting a weird error though after trying to do guided encrypted LVM partitioning... "Volume group name already in use" | 05:24 |
| Guestyguest | selecting continue takes me back to asking what how I want to partition | 05:25 |
| Guestyguest | Full text of the error is "The volume group name used to automatically partition using LVM is already in use. Lowering the priority for configuration questions will allow you to specify an alternative name." | 05:26 |
| Xenguy | If it were me, I'd just try to back out gracefully | 05:27 |
| Xenguy | Run away!!! | 05:27 |
| gnarface | Guestyguest: is this in expert mode? | 05:27 |
| Guestyguest | Looks like it's something about appending "-vg" to the hostname and creating a name conflict? https://askubuntu.com/questions/1200446/volume-group-name-already-in-use-message-during-ubuntu-18-04-installation | 05:28 |
| gnarface | Guestyguest: there's some trick to it but i'm not using LVM here so i can't ever remember how to describe it | 05:28 |
| Guestyguest | Xenguy I'm trying to overwrite the disk so it's not a big deal if the installation fails | 05:28 |
| gnarface | Guestyguest: maybe but it might also be just some other non-obvious peculiarity of the partitioning setup tool | 05:28 |
| Xenguy | Guestyguest, I just try to avoid garden paths when I can | 05:29 |
| Guestyguest | gnarface IDK about expert mode, I never saw a prompt for that | 05:29 |
| gnarface | Guestyguest: if you don't care about losing the stuff on there, you could delete all the partitions and volume groups already present and try to make it re-create them from scratch | 05:29 |
| Guestyguest | its using the ncurses gui | 05:29 |
| gnarface | Guestyguest: somewhere in the boot menu on the disk i think there should be still an expert ncurses mode | 05:30 |
| gnarface | Guestyguest: (that will effectively lower the priority threshold for the questions it refers to) | 05:30 |
| Guestyguest | grub had an "advanced options" section | 05:30 |
| gnarface | yea, i think it is in there | 05:30 |
| Guestyguest | ok I'll reboot | 05:31 |
| gnarface | lots of people trip up on this step though so i can't guarantee that's the issue you're facing | 05:31 |
| gnarface | full disk encryption and software raid seem to cause a lot of confusion mixed in with this | 05:31 |
| gnarface | the three things do work together but the installer is somewhat clumsy at making it happen | 05:32 |
| Guestyguest | ok I'm in expert mode and finished setting up language and keyboard, now I'm at "Load installer components from CD" | 05:36 |
| Guestyguest | Which ones do I select? | 05:36 |
| Guestyguest | Also, is there a guide somewhere to the expert mode install? | 05:36 |
| Guestyguest | ok nvm I found some guides on debian expert install | 05:38 |
| Guestyguest | Can I use f2fs instead of ext4 for root in an encrypted lvm install? | 05:51 |
| Guestyguest | hmm, f2fs isnt an option | 05:53 |
| gnarface | f2fs is probably too new, i'm not sure anyone is shipping it yet | 05:55 |
| gnarface | you might not need any of the additional installer components, but that's where i'd check first for anything missing from another step | 05:56 |
| gnarface | f2fs might even be in that menu, i'm not sure... it wouldn't be the first filesystem driver to ever appear there | 05:57 |
| gnarface | but nothing would stop you from migrating to it afterwards other than the tedium | 05:57 |
| Guestyguest | I checked in additional components, the only slightly-relevant thing I left unchecked was mdcfg, which is supposed to be for raid | 05:58 |
| Guestyguest | let me tell you about the system because I think I just need advice on the best way to set it up. It's a netbook upgraded with a 32GB intel optane cache as its main SSD, so I'd like to use a 128GB microSD card for stuff like /home | 06:00 |
| gnarface | it's probably an easier change to make after install | 06:01 |
| gnarface | after formatting the microSD, it's just a one line change to /etc/fstab | 06:01 |
| gnarface | that would give you a chance to get f2fs first | 06:02 |
| Guestyguest | So during install I should just put all files in the root partition then? | 06:02 |
| Guestyguest | instead of trying to make a separate /home now | 06:02 |
| gnarface | yea | 06:02 |
| Guestyguest | great, thank you | 06:02 |
| gnarface | np | 06:03 |
| Guestyguest | I'm getting some errors, how do I switch to virtual console 4? | 06:06 |
| Guestyguest | I tried ctrl+alt+f2 and it just took me back to the main menu | 06:06 |
| Guestyguest | its the volume group name again | 06:07 |
| Guestyguest | I tried naming it netbook-vg, it says selected name is already in use. But if I name it anything else it says "Unexpected error while creating volume group" | 06:09 |
| Guestyguest | "Autopartitioning using LVM failed because an error occurred while creating the volume group. Check /var/log/syslog or see virtual console 4 for the details" | 06:09 |
| Guestyguest | But I can't switch to a prompt at all because ctrl+alt+f1 and ctrl+alt+f2 just take me back to the expert mode menu | 06:10 |
| rrq | ctrl+alt+f1 = installer menu, ctrl+alt+f2 is a shell, ctrl+alt+f3 is a shell, ctrl+alt+f4 is showing the log | 06:11 |
| Guestyguest | I tried ctrl+alt+f4 and ctrl+alt+f3 but when that error occurs those key combinations are unresponsive | 06:12 |
| Guestyguest | ctrl+alt+f2 takes me to the partition disks menu | 06:13 |
| rrq | mmm maybe I need to read more backlog | 06:13 |
| Guestyguest | Is it running my installer in f2 for some reason? | 06:13 |
| Guestyguest | Is it supposed to be in f1? | 06:13 |
| rrq | yes .. which iso are you using? | 06:14 |
| Guestyguest | desktop | 06:15 |
| Guestyguest | non-live | 06:15 |
| Guestyguest | amd64 | 06:15 |
| rrq | right... it should be f1 for the installer menues .. maybe your keyboard is not detected properly | 06:16 |
| rrq | expert install? | 06:16 |
| Guestyguest | yes, currently | 06:16 |
| rrq | good; it's top menu has a shell option to get into the shell | 06:17 |
| Guestyguest | I only started using expert install because I got a different volume error before | 06:17 |
| Guestyguest | top menu item for me is "choose language" | 06:17 |
| rrq | the installer has "more" only, so you can do "more /var/log/syslog" to view the installation log | 06:17 |
| rrq | mm | 06:18 |
| rrq | try "go back" (?) | 06:18 |
| Guestyguest | Oh, I found "Execute a shell" | 06:18 |
| Guestyguest | its towards the bottom | 06:18 |
| rrq | yes | 06:18 |
| Guestyguest | There's also "Save debug logs", want me to select that first? | 06:18 |
| rrq | I suppopse they will need a functioning target file system though | 06:19 |
| Guestyguest | I inserted a microsd card | 06:19 |
| rrq | I would go to the shell | 06:20 |
| Guestyguest | ok im in ash | 06:21 |
| * rrq reading backlog | 06:21 | |
| gnarface | i think it's just that the extra virtual consoles on f3 and f4 aren't activated by default anymore | 06:22 |
| gnarface | i thought you can just re-activate one by switching to it and hitting enter | 06:22 |
| rrq | they should all work like that, yes, but apparently doesn't for you | 06:23 |
| rrq | so maybe "more /var/log/syslog" would show something | 06:23 |
| Guestyguest | I ran it, it's 256,505 bytes total | 06:24 |
| * Guestyguest is reading through it | 06:25 | |
| rrq | ? you mean "ls -l /var/log/syslog" ? | 06:25 |
| Guestyguest | When I run "more /var/log/syslog" it says "1% of 256505 bytes" at the bottom | 06:26 |
| Guestyguest | thats all I meant | 06:26 |
| rrq | ok ... it'll be a few pages, but the "more" program is a bit rustic ... push space to advance by page | 06:27 |
| Guestyguest | What am I looking for? I started installing devuan because I wanted a gui-less system to learn linux. So I apologize if I'm a bit of a noob | 06:27 |
| rrq | you might wount to mount the sdcard if it's formatted, then copy syslog to it and then move it to a friendlier environment | 06:28 |
| rrq | wount=want | 06:28 |
| Guestyguest | how do I mount an sd card in ash? | 06:28 |
| rrq | first "fdisk -l" to see what it's called | 06:29 |
| rrq | then "mount /dev/something /mnt" | 06:29 |
| Guestyguest | ohhhhhhhhhhhh, so it's just like bash? | 06:29 |
| Guestyguest | I ran "help" and it said it had only like 15 commands | 06:29 |
| rrq | pretty much .. without the bells | 06:29 |
| Guestyguest | ok hang on | 06:30 |
| Guestyguest | "/dev/mmcblk0" | 06:30 |
| rrq | that's the disk... should have a ..p1 partition | 06:30 |
| Guestyguest | yes, /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 06:31 |
| rrq | try mounting that | 06:31 |
| Guestyguest | "mount: mounting /dev/mcblk0p1 on /mnt failed: Invalid argument" | 06:32 |
| Guestyguest | *mmcblk0p1 | 06:32 |
| rrq | mmm .. I guess you were halfway through partitioning | 06:33 |
| Guestyguest | yes that's where the installer goes nuts | 06:33 |
| Guestyguest | It's been three hours since I started trying to install so I think I'll try this again tomorrow | 06:35 |
| rrq | ok.. yes I would suggest you start again, and not use expert mode | 06:36 |
| Guestyguest | If you look at my comments around an hour ago, that's where I tried not using expert mode | 06:37 |
| Guestyguest | I got this error: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1200446/volume-group-name-already-in-use-message-during-ubuntu-18-04-installation | 06:37 |
| Guestyguest | Which in ubuntu was due to some hardcoded naming scheme creating a name conflict I think | 06:38 |
| Guestyguest | Anyway ttyl, also thank you gnarface for your help as well | 06:39 |
| rrq | right. ok. note that the partitioner tries to be friendly and preserve partitions so will get confused by remmnants, especially if using LVM | 06:41 |
| gnarface | rrq: if he comes back before i do, tell him to delete all that. the point of trying expert mode was because it was supposed to give him an option to rename them, but at this point he should have followed my advice to just delete them all | 07:27 |
| gnarface | that was meant to be the "plan b" but i didn't stick around long enough to make sure it happened | 07:27 |
| rrq | ok ta | 07:28 |
| gnarface | i didn't see what he was actually looking at but it was apparently a pre-existing ubuntu install that he didn't care about, so it would have been easier to just wipe the disk clean from the start | 07:31 |
| gnarface | the partitioner got confused by the LVM setup somehow | 07:32 |
| gnarface | but it was trying to re-use something that wasn't important to keep in the first place | 07:32 |
| mason | Spoor from older installations can be troublesome. MD-RAID metadata is a particular thorn that bites me. | 16:36 |
| mason | Or... pokes I guess. | 16:36 |
| plasma41 | I'm trying to collect more data to try to establish root cause for the issue I helped diagnose on this channel on Tuesday. | 22:05 |
| plasma41 | Would folks on this channel be so kind as to run `egrep "^[a-fA-F0-9]+ T .*sys_(inotify_init|signalfd|accept4|open_by_handle_at|timerfd_create|epoll_create)$" /proc/kallsyms` and respond with a link to a pastebin containing the output? | 22:08 |
| debdog | plasma41: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/60ddbb14 | 22:13 |
| debdog | expires in 90 days | 22:13 |
| plasma41 | debdog: Thank you. What kernel are you using? Do you have a mulitarch system? | 22:14 |
| debdog | multiarch enabled, yes. 4.19.98-1+deb10u1 | 22:15 |
| debdog | *enabled and added i386 | 22:15 |
| plasma41 | debdog: Excellent, thank you. | 22:16 |
| debdog | np | 22:16 |
| unclouded | do you need any more? http://paste.debian.net/1205980/ | 22:16 |
| plasma41 | unclouded: Yes, thanks. Same follow up questions: What kernel are you using? Do you have a mulitarch system? | 22:17 |
| unclouded | 4.19.0-17-amd64, how do I determine multiarch? `arch` just says x86_64 | 22:17 |
| unclouded | there are /lib and /lib64 directories and neither is a link | 22:18 |
| plasma41 | unclouded: What is the output of `dpkg --print-architecture`? | 22:19 |
| unclouded | just "amd64" | 22:20 |
| debdog | unclouded: dpkg --print-foreign-architectures | 22:21 |
| plasma41 | ^ | 22:21 |
| unclouded | cheers. shows no output at all | 22:21 |
| plasma41 | Hmm... Not what I was expecting, but that just means my current hypothesis is wrong or incomplete. | 22:22 |
| fsmithred | what about dpkg -l |grep multiarch? | 22:23 |
| unclouded | this is a totally fresh installation of beowulf in a VM | 22:23 |
| unclouded | `dpkg -l |grep multiarch` also shows no output at all | 22:23 |
| fsmithred | I have it installed and get no output from --print-foreign... | 22:24 |
| debdog | one does not install multirach. one has to activate it and add architectures | 22:25 |
| debdog | fsmithred: https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO#Usage | 22:25 |
| fsmithred | multiarch-support is the name of the package | 22:25 |
| fsmithred | installed but I never did anything with it | 22:25 |
| debdog | - Transitional package to ensure multiarch compatibility | 22:26 |
| debdog | prolly transition from, what was it called, to multia' | 22:26 |
| debdog | multilib | 22:26 |
| plasma41 | More data still needed | 22:31 |
| fsmithred | https://termbin.com/xokc | 22:32 |
| plasma41 | fsmithred: thank you | 22:33 |
| debdog | is bootlaoder involved, too? sorry, no clue what issue we're talking about. I use lilo | 22:36 |
| plasma41 | debdog: bootloader should be irrelevant to to issue at hand. | 22:43 |
| plasma41 | debdog: Thank you for asking though | 22:44 |
| debdog | k | 22:44 |
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