| rs | is there any correlation with debian and the new stable release today, for devuan's next "stable"? would following testing instead of chimaera in prep for the next devuan stable advisable or wait? | 02:08 |
|---|---|---|
| golinux | Yes. Now chimaera will move from testing to stable also "when it's ready" | 02:11 |
| onefang | Also, stick with the code names instead of the "testing", "stable", etc. Coz when Debian switches and Devuan hasn't switched yet, apt will get confused. | 02:21 |
| fluffywolf | chimaera is too hard to spell. | 02:37 |
| debdog | sounds like a disease | 02:39 |
| debdog | diarrhea | 02:39 |
| debdog | actually, no clue how it sounds. not a native speaker | 02:42 |
| rrq | for a Swede pronunciation would be like "kaimera" | 02:50 |
| rrq | with the "i" slightly resting on "j" and the "r" being the being the soft english variant | 02:51 |
| debdog | ok, sounds (hehe) about right | 02:53 |
| golinux | Meet the "Deep Sea Chimaera" . . . inspiration for the desktop theming https://dev1galaxy.org/files/chimaera2.jpg | 02:58 |
| tpefreedom | my first devuan install was successful. | 03:00 |
| tpefreedom | w/ lilo | 03:01 |
| golinux | Here is the Chimaera in action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV0D6G4CTio | 03:03 |
| tpefreedom | I'm on beowolf | 03:03 |
| golinux | tpefreedom: Congrats! | 03:04 |
| tpefreedom | this is also my first time trying out lilo | 03:04 |
| tpefreedom | it works great as far as I''m concerned. | 03:05 |
| tpefreedom | I'm using openrc. works great | 03:06 |
| tpefreedom | When I tried to boot an adelie installer usb, I got an invalid partition table error, same thing trying to install parabola (both openrc and systemd iirc) until I tried both systemd and gpt (on legacy mode). | 03:07 |
| tpefreedom | So it can't be an openrc issue, or a bios/mbr issue. i don't think old-school lilo even supports gpt | 03:08 |
| tpefreedom | maybe it's a grub problem | 03:08 |
| tpefreedom | idk though | 03:08 |
| Xenguy | How sweet it is | 04:35 |
| plasma41 | nemo: A few days ago you asked if this https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/fs/cifs/connect.c?id=a52930353eaf443489a350a135c5525a4acbbf56 patch made it into the kernel in Chimaera. Yes, it did. https://sources.debian.org/src/linux/5.10.46-1/fs/cifs/connect.c/ | 08:51 |
| brocashelm | how soon until daedalus is available in the devuan repository? | 09:34 |
| brocashelm | once chimaera is officially released? | 09:35 |
| manis_ | <golinux> "Yes. Bullseye has been released..." <- What is FDN? | 10:55 |
| user____ | going offline, upgrading packages | 12:25 |
| fsmithred | manis_, fdn = forums.debian.net | 12:39 |
| AhmedCharles[m] | How easy is it to go from debian bullseye to devuan chimaera? | 13:55 |
| fsmithred | AhmedCharles[m], you have an opportunity to be a trailblazer | 14:06 |
| AhmedCharles[m] | It should be easy to make a snapshot of my system (btrfs) and try there. I guess I'd follow the same instructions as https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/buster-to-beowulf only with the names being replaced? | 14:08 |
| fsmithred | maybe, but several people have had trouble with that method | 14:09 |
| fsmithred | is it a desktop or a server? | 14:09 |
| AhmedCharles[m] | desktop | 14:10 |
| fsmithred | here's a script someone wrote for migrating a desktop system | 14:11 |
| fsmithred | (https://git.devuan.org/farmatito/migration | 14:11 |
| fsmithred | look it over for clues | 14:11 |
| fsmithred | also, there's a discussion on the forum about buster to beowulf migration that uses a slightly different method. I'll get the link. | 14:11 |
| fsmithred | This post is my summary. Scroll up to nixer's posts for more detail: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=18390#p18390 | 14:13 |
| AhmedCharles[m] | Thanks. | 14:13 |
| fsmithred | the big difference is that with nixer's method, you keep systemd running until after you have migrated the whole system. Reboot to sysvinit at the end, then remove systemd. | 14:13 |
| fsmithred | I've done it that way a few times, but not in the past few months. | 14:14 |
| brocashelm | in my experience migrating a debian (or another debian/non-ubuntu base) install to devuan (or the other way around) can be tricky, depending on how much you've customized your system and what conflicts arise (especially regarding systemd). you normally change your sources.list and test with apt update and apt dist-upgrade, although some packages might get stuck with unresolvable dependencies (e.g. elogind) | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | ^^^ this | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | using aptitude to get out of some conflicts can work. | 14:15 |
| brocashelm | yes | 14:15 |
| AhmedCharles[m] | I have local access and can just chroot to fix things if they break, so it can't be that hard, right? :P | 14:15 |
| fsmithred | that helps | 14:15 |
| brocashelm | it generally should work without much of a hassle, but it's usually safer to do a fresh install while backing up your /home folder (or better yet, if you made it into its own partition) and checking your configs within /etc (where fstab, grub, etc. are all stored) | 14:15 |
| fsmithred | I've had to specify versions to install on a few occasions | 14:16 |
| brocashelm | i've tried to devuanize mx a few times; that's how i got my elogind problem (no matter what i tried to resolve it) | 14:16 |
| AhmedCharles[m] | I have btrfs with subvolumes for different roots and home. | 14:16 |
| brocashelm | and always make sure to do the full system upgrade while dropped to tty | 14:18 |
| brocashelm | i even did that just upgrading beowulf to chimaera since it's a significant move as it is | 14:18 |
| AhmedCharles[m] | I've successfully gone from sid to testing before, so I'm not too worried. | 14:19 |
| brocashelm | cool | 14:19 |
| AhmedCharles[m] | Though, that one mostly just requires reasonable timing, cause it's easier just before a release. | 14:20 |
| brocashelm | and since testing and unstable are pretty close to each other, that's even easier | 14:20 |
| brocashelm | there's the more complicated method of individually checking each package version to match your codename and then the simpler (but lengthier) method of waiting for packages in sid/ceres to "catch up" to bullseye/chimaera | 14:21 |
| brocashelm | i'm on ceres so i don't have to worry about a full system upgrade anymore, lol | 14:21 |
| brocashelm | anytime a package i need is not in the repos, i'll enable ascii/beowulf to get it (i've done that a few times for a couple of things like gksu) | 14:23 |
| user____ | Updating all packages on Beowulf: success. I somehow ended up with more packages than before, using aptitude. I assume some "recommended" ones were really made "required". Could not say which. | 14:44 |
| gnarface | you might want to disable installing recommends by default | 14:54 |
| brocashelm | and to do that: create or open a file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d and title it 00norecommends; paste this line: APT::Install-Recommends "false"; | 14:56 |
| luser978 | Don't know how to, with aptitude | 14:56 |
| luser978 | ok, noted | 14:56 |
| brocashelm | use vim/nano/geany/whatever text editor you prefer | 14:56 |
| brocashelm | and then your preferences should be saved | 14:56 |
| luser978 | but I assume some packges wrongly pull in recommends as depends | 14:57 |
| luser978 | I have no proof. | 14:57 |
| brocashelm | i know elogind is a generally unavoidable package from chimaera and beyond, especially if you want a stable system | 14:58 |
| manis_ | Why is elogind unavoidable? | 14:59 |
| brocashelm | a lot of programs depend on the logind api | 14:59 |
| brocashelm | and elogind is a fork of it for those who prefer a non-systemd init | 15:00 |
| manis_ | Didn't they do so before chimaera already? | 15:03 |
| fsmithred | if you use a window manager and don't depend on shutdown/reboot buttons that the user can use and maybe a few other similar features, you can do without elogind. | 15:09 |
| fsmithred | I think you can still do without dbus, if you're selective | 15:09 |
| brocashelm | dbus and polkit are much harder to flush out than elogind | 15:11 |
| fsmithred | I haven't tried it in chimaera yet. Not even sure if I did it in beowulf. | 15:11 |
| * fsmithred checks | 15:11 | |
| fsmithred | yeah, I made beo nodbus isos | 15:12 |
| brocashelm | i think you linked it to me once that you were able to run a devuan free of the -kits | 15:12 |
| fsmithred | it's with the other fun stuff: https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/ | 15:14 |
| manis_ | polkit on Debian is something I can live with because they still ship the no-JavaScript version. | 15:19 |
| manis_ | dbus is a thing I never understood. | 15:19 |
| manis_ | I have my shutdown/reboot setuid. I know that this is not ideal because any wild-running script can now turn off my system. | 15:20 |
| manis_ | But I wonder if that's any different than "loginctl poweroff" | 15:20 |
| fsmithred | is that worse than sudo nopasswd for shutdown? | 15:21 |
| manis_ | I don't have sudo, but if you do you can be more selective with sudo than with a simple setuid | 15:21 |
| manis_ | IMO sudo is better | 15:22 |
| fsmithred | on some systems, I let user shutdown/reboot. I'm the only one who has physical access. | 15:22 |
| manis_ | server vs desktop is a completely different story. | 15:23 |
| manis_ | What frightens me is when I see a server with elogind, polkit, dbus | 15:23 |
| user____ | Reading NetworkManager docs on arch linux: that nm IS systemd. | 16:04 |
| user____ | What are the other simple options for network control on Devuan Chimaera? | 16:04 |
| brocashelm | connman? | 16:05 |
| brocashelm | since wicd is deprecated due to python2, those are the only two popular graphical options as far as i'm concerned | 16:06 |
| user____ | connman seems to be less systemd-ish than nm | 16:09 |
| fsmithred | I've been using network-manager and connman for several months, and I have come to hate them both. | 16:43 |
| adhoc | wonder what is involved in porting wicd forward to python3 ? | 16:45 |
| adhoc | of if it is worth a re-write | 16:46 |
| adhoc | s/of/or/ | 16:46 |
| fsmithred | I have no idea. I only program in bash, and that's probably not the best choice for the new wicd. | 16:46 |
| brocashelm | wicd is available in debian experimental IIRC | 16:49 |
| fsmithred | 1.7.4+tb2+2019.09.18git2e0ba579-1 | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | 1.7.4+tb2-6+devuan1.1 is in beowulf | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | I'm guessing the one in exp is still py2 | 16:50 |
| golinux | Maybe there is hope! | 16:55 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, Is there any way to verify which python version Debian experimental's wicd is using? | 17:28 |
| fsmithred | Xenguy, probably go look at the project (probably on salsa.debian.org) | 17:35 |
| fsmithred | gotta go again. bbl. | 17:35 |
| Xenguy | TTYL | 17:36 |
| brocashelm | later | 17:36 |
| user____ | What is the full package name of the kernel modules package? | 18:13 |
| user____ | I uninstalled 4.19.0-9 and the modules dir is still in, also, aptitude claims linux-latest-modules-5.10.0-0.bpo.8 is installed but it is not! System is Beowulf | 18:14 |
| user____ | Oh, /lib/modules/4.19.0-9-amd64/ only contains some deps and aliases files. Is this normal, after deinstalling the kernel image? | 18:14 |
| plausibl | hi! I'm trying to install devuan with an LVM encryption, but for some reason in the 'partition' step I only get two poptions: guided|manual | 18:28 |
| plausibl | no word about LVM. I'm using netinstall amd64 beowulf | 18:29 |
| plausibl | nevermind, restarted the installer *not* in expert mode, and all four options for partitioning showed up. All good now. | 18:33 |
| mason | user____: There can be a number of different packages that populate that hierarchy. But in general, dpkg -S /lib/modules/what/ever will show you what put a particular thing in place. | 19:12 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Hi | 19:22 |
| sadoon_albader[m | I'm thinking of installing Devuan on some of my rigs but I have a question and could appreciate any help | 19:23 |
| sadoon_albader[m | I noticed that Devuan releases are usually a year later than the Debian ones, does this means that I won't get packages in sync with Debian 11 until 2022? | 19:24 |
| sadoon_albader[m | mean* | 19:24 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, I can't tell for sure about python 2 vs. 3, but all the activity is years old in the salsa repo, for wicd | 19:24 |
| Xenguy | sadoon_albader[m, The word on the street is that Chimaera might get released earlier than usual | 19:25 |
| sadoon_albader[m | But as a general rule it comes out late, correct? | 19:25 |
| brocashelm | i wonder if we intend on forking wicd. it should be possible as long as the python version is updated (from 2 to 3)? | 19:25 |
| Jjp137 | a migration from Python 2 to 3 is not as trivial as one might expect | 19:27 |
| Jjp137 | there was this article a while back: https://lwn.net/Articles/864938/ | 19:27 |
| Xenguy | brocashelm, IIUC somebody has to update wicd from python 2 to 3, and for reasons that I'm not familiar with, it is looking like this operation is non-trivial | 19:27 |
| brocashelm | i see | 19:28 |
| golinux | sadoon_albader[m: Release will be before too long. Many users are already using it quite happily. | 19:33 |
| sadoon_albader[m | That sounds good | 19:33 |
| sadoon_albader[m | I just need to find some way to install it on ppc64le though | 19:33 |
| sadoon_albader[m | I can only find x86 and x86_64 isos for devuan 4 | 19:33 |
| brocashelm | i'm on ceres and having no such problems. it's that rock solid | 19:34 |
| sadoon_albader[m | I suppose I could just install beowulf and then migrate the repos to chimaera to upgrade right? | 19:35 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Similar to going to testing and sid in debian | 19:35 |
| brocashelm | even with my mixed repositories (that i carefully managed). i pretty much get stability plus newer drivers/software so i can play newer games | 19:35 |
| golinux | sadoon_albader[m: I know it is possible | 19:35 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Great | 19:36 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Thanks everyone, I needed some of that confidence given that I'm installing on x86, x86_64, and ppc64le lol | 19:36 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Let's hope things go smoothly | 19:36 |
| brocashelm | yes, you just need to update your sources.list first (change beowulf to chimaera) and then run apt update, apt dist-upgrade, etc. - all depends on what your package manager tells you, and you could use aptitude to resolve some conflicts along the way | 19:36 |
| golinux | We have chimaera test isos too http://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/ | 19:36 |
| brocashelm | just make sure you do all this in tty mode; the safest way to upgrade while running the os | 19:37 |
| sadoon_albader[m | golinux: Yes for x86 and amd64 I found the isos, ppc64le is going to be the manual upgrade one | 19:37 |
| sadoon_albader[m | brocashelm: will do, thanks! | 19:37 |
| brocashelm | and IMO, it's a good idea to install apt-listchanges and apt-listbugs if you don't have them yet. always important to get the latest details on an upgrade and if there is a bug (you can dodge it and install the rest) | 19:38 |
| golinux | Migrations can be tricky. Upgrades more straight forward. | 19:39 |
| user____ | mason: it says the dir belongs to linux-image-4.19.0-9-amd64 but that is removed. Should I --purge it? | 19:42 |
| mason | user____: That should work then. | 19:45 |
| user____ | okay, that did it. | 19:46 |
| yo | hi, noob question here: how can I create a bootable USB from a 4-disc desktop installation isos? is there a manual? | 20:00 |
| fsmithred | sadoon_albader[m, there are ppc64le mini.isos. I successfully installed it in a vm, but I didn't know how to make it boot. | 20:21 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Yes I found the beowulf one but none for chimaera | 20:21 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I see that now. | 20:23 |
| fsmithred | you could do a minimal install and upgrade | 20:24 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Yup that's what I'm doing | 20:42 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Ran into an error during installation and didn't even get sudo installed lol | 20:44 |
| sadoon_albader[m | But it's all good because the system booted fine and I can apt install | 20:44 |
| sadoon_albader[m | I'm running into an issue | 21:20 |
| sadoon_albader[m | What's the package that provides usermod? | 21:21 |
| sadoon_albader[m | I can't find it for the life of me | 21:21 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Ok nvm it's there but hidden in /usr/sbin | 21:21 |
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