| ukine | sigh | 08:34 |
|---|---|---|
| ukine | heh | 08:34 |
| brocashelm | lots more updates for ceres as of today... | 09:08 |
| ukine | cool stuff, brocashelm | 09:52 |
| Finnix | hi, is there some progress status for chimaera release? | 12:09 |
| brocashelm | finnix: chimaera will be released within a month from now at the earliest. it's technically stable at this point and there are isos on the site | 12:17 |
| brocashelm | finnix: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera | 12:18 |
| Finnix | well, i just make sed/beowulf/chimaera/g -i /etc/apt/sources.list and voila? | 12:19 |
| Finnix | or better wait to release? | 12:20 |
| brocashelm | just update your sources.list when ready | 12:28 |
| brocashelm | up to you, though | 12:28 |
| Finnix | thanks :) | 12:28 |
| brocashelm | i use ceres (unstable) and am laughing about it | 12:28 |
| brocashelm | ceres and chimaera are very similar at the moment, too | 12:29 |
| brocashelm | on linux 5.10 kernel | 12:29 |
| Finnix | unstable is more stable than others distros in my cases, but i also wanna to get moar stable, because from time to time have minor issues with unstable | 12:30 |
| brocashelm | until chimaera's official release, daedalus won't be available (even though bookworm on debian is available) | 12:30 |
| Finnix | its ok for me, but not for my f.e. sister | 12:31 |
| brocashelm | like which issues? i've been running ceres for a whole year now and am surprised i didn't switch sooner | 12:31 |
| brocashelm | oh | 12:31 |
| Finnix | like desktop theme is going too curly | 12:32 |
| Finnix | or "what is that red message in boot log"? | 12:32 |
| Finnix | but for sure - last used unstable was lenny/squeeze | 12:34 |
| Finnix | vps is now run chimaera, next will try upgrade my laptop, thanks! | 12:45 |
| sadoon_albader[m | So I'm having an issue using runit as my init | 13:49 |
| sadoon_albader[m | My only services are the agetty instances, yet I have NetworkManager running and I don't know how to stop it | 13:50 |
| sadoon_albader[m | It seems to be managing things with some other method | 13:50 |
| sadoon_albader[m | I have a few folders in /etc rc0.d, rc1.d, etc | 13:56 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Aren't those from a different init system? | 13:56 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Also somehow connmand is running alongside NetworkManager and I haven't enabled either of them | 14:01 |
| gnarface | are there symlinks in /etc/rc?.d/ that point to anywhere? | 14:06 |
| gnarface | like to whatever is starting networkmanager and connman? | 14:08 |
| fsmithred | sadoon_albader[m, any services not managed by runit will depend on the init scripts | 14:28 |
| fsmithred | try /etc/init.d/network-manager stop | 14:28 |
| fsmithred | also, therer are no runit scripts for rcS | 14:28 |
| sadoon_albader[m | You're right | 14:29 |
| sadoon_albader[m | So which program manages these scripts? | 14:30 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I've played with runit a little. Made a runit live-iso for others to play with. | 14:30 |
| sadoon_albader[m | And how can I disable them | 14:30 |
| fsmithred | oh wait, you think I know what I'm doing? | 14:30 |
| sadoon_albader[m | I guess lol | 14:30 |
| fsmithred | I have notes to answer your questions. | 14:30 |
| fsmithred | also a discussion at the forum. | 14:30 |
| fsmithred | hang on | 14:30 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Sure | 14:31 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Been looking everywhere for answers | 14:31 |
| fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3716 | 14:31 |
| fsmithred | that discussion includes posts from the runit maintainer | 14:31 |
| fsmithred | short version: to switch a service from init script to run scripts, stop service, copy run files, run a command or two to add the service to runit. | 14:33 |
| fsmithred | and here's a live-iso to play with. Notes included. https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta_runit_test_amd64-20210614_1136.iso | 14:34 |
| fsmithred | I switched a fair number of services over to runit. | 14:34 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Thanks! | 14:42 |
| nemo | plasma41: thanks | 15:27 |
| luser978 | freenode is updating to new Debian... expect outages.. | 15:49 |
| stargrave | greetings! https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom page contains section named "Other UNICES", mentioning GNU/Hurd, Minix and others. but there are Plan9 and Inferno, that are no way Unices | 16:19 |
| user____ | Nitpicker. | 17:36 |
| luser978 | I meant libera is updating. sigh. | 19:29 |
| Guest74 | Hi. | 21:18 |
| Guest74 | I have a problem with the wireless card. | 21:18 |
| Guest74 | Some bugs that cause it to randomly stop working. | 21:18 |
| Guest74 | The wireless card is "Intel Wireless 3165" | 21:20 |
| Guest74 | Could somebody help me resolve the problem? | 21:20 |
| rwp | Guest74, How did you install the Intel firmware drivers for that card? Did you install the firmware-iwlwifi package from non-free? | 21:36 |
| rwp | I think installing the firmware-iwlwifi package should be enough to make that WiFi device function. | 21:37 |
| Guest74 | rwp, yes, I did | 21:37 |
| Guest74 | It functions, just there is a problem, that it randomly ceases to work | 21:38 |
| rwp | And then what network management software, if any, are you using to connect? In Beowulf the default was wicd but unfortunately that was python 2 and has not been converted to python 3 and therefore is not available moving forward. | 21:38 |
| Guest74 | And I have to restart | 21:38 |
| hagbard | A python3-Version of wicd already exists. | 21:40 |
| fsmithred | where? | 21:40 |
| user____ | where hagbard ? | 21:40 |
| hagbard | Came across it shortlz ago in some official debian repo. | 21:40 |
| user____ | really? | 21:40 |
| fsmithred | there's a wicd in experimental, but major version number is same as in beowulf | 21:40 |
| Guest74 | rwp I am using NetworkManager Applet . Is this what you ask about? | 21:41 |
| fsmithred | yeah, that's what he asked | 21:41 |
| rwp | Yes. That answers my question. | 21:41 |
| rwp | What OS version are you running? | 21:41 |
| Guest74 | Chimaera | 21:42 |
| hagbard | wicd from experimental depends on python3-wicd | 21:42 |
| rwp | And Chimaera is why WICD is not available to you at this moment. Because of the python version issues we just mentioned. | 21:42 |
| rwp | NetworkManager is my least favorite tool. Personally I do not like it. But it should work. However perhaps others might help more if they are familiar with it. | 21:43 |
| * fsmithred fires up the chimaera laptop and adds experimental | 21:43 | |
| rwp | But I often have a WiFi disconnect just because of signal strength or I moved to a blocked area behind something metal. | 21:43 |
| * hagbard simply uses wpa_gui | 21:43 | |
| fsmithred | I migrated a bullseye to chimaera today and n-m was a pain in my ass. I had to remove it and use a static IP | 21:43 |
| rwp | And then wicd will re-connect automatically to the same WiFi access again and I don't really notice unless I happen to notice. | 21:44 |
| Guest74 | NetworkManager freeze at the same time, when the wifi connection fails. | 21:44 |
| rwp | Grr... I hate NetworkManager. | 21:44 |
| Guest74 | Is it possible, that it is just NetworkManager issue, and not of drivers? | 21:44 |
| rwp | I think your problem might be NM more than it is the WiFi network device. | 21:44 |
| rwp | I think it is possible. What do other people think? Should we advise trying a different management utility? | 21:45 |
| Guest74 | I checked dmesh as well, and I found some error messages. I will paste here. | 21:45 |
| Guest74 | [ 9.902903] r8169 0000:02:00.0: firmware: failed to load rtl_nic/rtl8168h-2.fw (-2) | 21:45 |
| Guest74 | [ 9.902931] r8169 0000:02:00.0: Direct firmware load for rtl_nic/rtl8168h-2.fw failed with error -2 | 21:45 |
| Guest74 | [ 9.902944] r8169 0000:02:00.0: Unable to load firmware rtl_nic/rtl8168h-2.fw (-2) | 21:45 |
| brocashelm | most gnome software is not well-tested and stable, so i'm not surprised that wifi fails all the time with networkmanager | 21:45 |
| Guest74 | [ 3.359605] iwlwifi 0000:03:00.0: firmware: failed to load iwl-debug-yoyo.bin (-2) | 21:46 |
| Guest74 | Is it possible, it is connected to this issue? | 21:46 |
| rwp | That is the Realtek RTL 8168 ethernet device. I recommend installing firmware-linux-nonfree package to include that firmware too. | 21:46 |
| rwp | Unlikely that it is connected to the WiFi issue. But it would still be a good thing to fix in the case that you plug in a wire. | 21:47 |
| brocashelm | maybe try it with connman? | 21:47 |
| rwp | +1 on trying connman from me. | 21:47 |
| rwp | And then if the problem persists we think it is neither NM nor connman. But if the problem stops then we think it was NM. | 21:47 |
| brocashelm | wifi fails all the time for me if i use networkmanager | 21:48 |
| brocashelm | so does vpn | 21:48 |
| rwp | Sorry. I said firmware-linux-nonfree but I think the RTL 8168 driver is in the firmware-realtek package. I just looked. | 21:48 |
| brocashelm | installing/updating firmware could help though | 21:49 |
| rwp | Yes. And it removes noise from the logs that might distract otherwise. | 21:50 |
| fsmithred | wicd in experimental installs in chimaera, claims to start (probably does) but the gui won't start. It throws an error about "no module named gtk" or something like that. | 21:52 |
| * fsmithred reinstalls connman | 21:52 | |
| rwp | fsmithred, Do you know of if wicd-curses works from there in a terminal? That's simpler and should work. I use wicd-curses often on Beowulf. | 21:54 |
| rwp | wicd-curses is in a separate package. | 21:54 |
| luser978 | connman! | 21:54 |
| fsmithred | rwp, I didn't try it | 21:55 |
| fsmithred | maybe later | 21:55 |
| rwp | I mean... Who needs a mouse to operate a computer system? :-) | 21:55 |
| fsmithred | no me | 21:55 |
| fsmithred | I have a trackpad | 21:55 |
| fsmithred | there should be a gui in the default desktop install. That's just good manners. | 21:56 |
| rwp | When I upgrade my laptop from beowulf to chimaera I am going to need to try all of the combinations. | 21:56 |
| Guest74 | Sorry, I was offline for a while. | 21:56 |
| fsmithred | so far, I'm disappointed in both n-m and connman | 21:56 |
| fsmithred | we all installed connman while you were gone | 21:57 |
| fsmithred | (j/k) | 21:57 |
| rwp | I am not saying a default desktop should not offer a GUI by default. Just to be clear! :-) | 21:57 |
| Guest74 | The last message I could read was "Sorry. I said firmware-linux-nonfree but I think the RTL 8168 driver is in the firmware-realtek package. I just looked." | 21:57 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I didn't think you were saying that. | 21:57 |
| Guest74 | I installed this a while before to fix this issue | 21:57 |
| fsmithred | I think you're right. | 21:58 |
| fsmithred | you're losing wireless connection or wired connection. I kind of expect the latter with rtl 8168 | 21:58 |
| rwp | Guest74, We think you should try either connman, or the chimaera compatible version of wicd from experimental with some caveats. The GTK GUI doesn't run for fsmithred from there. | 21:58 |
| Guest74 | I installed the connman a while ago, I lost my connection after this. | 21:59 |
| rwp | fsmithred, Have you had problems with the rtl8168 driver? I am surprised. It is a long standing driver and I haven't personally had any trouble with it. | 21:59 |
| Guest74 | So I decided to kill the NM process from the task manager. | 22:00 |
| rwp | Guest74, If you have multiple management utilities installed then it is possible that they will "fight" with each other. And therefore drop connections. | 22:00 |
| Guest74 | I could connect from the connman settings then. | 22:00 |
| rwp | Also I have seen multiple times cases of having more than one dhclient running due to various reasons and then the two dhclients fight with each other. | 22:01 |
| Guest74 | What should I do now to remove the NM applet, and to get some appriopriate addon for connman instead? | 22:01 |
| Guest74 | I mean, that graphic element on the panel. | 22:01 |
| rwp | You say task manager so I know you are using the gui, I always use the command line but "ps -ef | grep dhclient" there should only be one dhclient running. | 22:01 |
| fsmithred | I just tried wicd-cli in chimaera and all I can get from it is "No operations performed" | 22:01 |
| djph | rwp: yeah, what happened to wicd? python2/3 stuff that got it pulled from whatever-debian-calls-Chimaera? | 22:02 |
| rwp | wicd-cli? A new command I have not heard of! | 22:02 |
| fsmithred | rwp, I will confess that my rtl8168 problems were in wheezy. I had to get some r8169 package from ubuntu to get it to be stable | 22:02 |
| rwp | djph, Right. It's the python 2 python 3 problem. But fsmithred says there is a version in experimental, that doesn't fully work, so we don't know the true status of it. | 22:02 |
| rwp | djph, But we know that the default installation in chimaera does not include it due to the python version problem and wicd port to python 3 issue. | 22:03 |
| fsmithred | cli version won't do anything, either | 22:03 |
| Guest74 | I had that problem with my wireless card in the other debian based system, so just to be sure, I would like to change NM to connman too. | 22:03 |
| djph | great, thanks -- that's what I thought as I was hunting for the package, but couldn't find anything that gave a solid reason (albeit trying to look up on lynx because I was only tethered thru a metered connection before I could install X ...) | 22:04 |
| fsmithred | xfce gets n-m, I think cinnamon might get connman and kde gets its own | 22:04 |
| rwp | I often use wicd-curses because I will log into a laptop over ssh on the wired ethernet and then work it that way. | 22:04 |
| rwp | Because when I provision a pristine new installation I always install over the wire. And after getting things to an okay state then I log in from my desktop over the wire. | 22:04 |
| Guest74 | Then what should I do so the NM wouldn't turn by default, and I would have connman panel element for it. | 22:04 |
| Guest74 | ? | 22:04 |
| rwp | And then can use wicd-curses to set up the WiFi of it. | 22:04 |
| djph | so, at this point, I'm just using good old /e/n/i with wireless-tools and whatever else | 22:04 |
| fsmithred | you should probably install connman before you remove n-m unless you feel comfortable getting a network connect in a terminal | 22:05 |
| rwp | djph, I do that for IoT devices but that's a lot of learning curve for a new person to start on immediately. Also I have moved past wireless-tools to wpa_supplicant for using the latest WPA. | 22:05 |
| Guest74 | I guess I am using xfce.* | 22:05 |
| Guest74 | Yeah, I am quite sure. | 22:06 |
| fsmithred | Guest74, you do have a wired connection you can use? | 22:06 |
| rwp | Guest74, I am not sure what to recommend. Because I don't think NM can be easily removed IIRC it tries to remove the desktop then. Not sure. It's been too long since I tried it. | 22:06 |
| fsmithred | no, it should remove easily. Pretty sure it's a Recommends, not a Depends | 22:06 |
| Guest74 | fsmithred, I could get one. Why do you ask? | 22:06 |
| fsmithred | in case you get stuck without wireless | 22:07 |
| fsmithred | when you are between n-m and connman | 22:07 |
| djph | rwp: yeah, I was trying to piece it together -- Chimaera installer couldn't find the iwlwifi firmwares on the other USB (which probably means I did something wrong), so was trying to lookup howtos on my phone ;) | 22:07 |
| djph | this one worked, and I'm not gonna complain too much | 22:07 |
| rwp | In that case I would purge NM (purge not remove) and leave only connman installed. Then try that combination. And yes caution that you don't break your only network connection while doing this. | 22:07 |
| fsmithred | we really need to fix that first message about adding wireless firmware on a usb | 22:07 |
| fsmithred | IGNORE IT! | 22:08 |
| fsmithred | the wireless firmware is in the installer isos, in /firmware | 22:08 |
| rwp | Agreed. Ignore it. It's unnecessary. | 22:08 |
| fsmithred | but the debian-installer we fork doesn't know that we included non-free firmware in the isos | 22:08 |
| fsmithred | at least that piece of the installer doesn't know | 22:08 |
| fsmithred | other parts know and install what you need | 22:08 |
| fsmithred | unless you do certain things to prevent it | 22:09 |
| fsmithred | i.e. select expert install and select a mirror for the installation. | 22:09 |
| fsmithred | then you get asked if you want nonfree. | 22:09 |
| fsmithred | if you happen to own a device that uses certain broadcom drivers and has to ethernet port, then you need to put the firmware on a usb. | 22:10 |
| fsmithred | has *no* ethernet port | 22:10 |
| rwp | Broadcom has been a terrible member of the community and has made it mostly impossible or very hard to use with Free Software. | 22:11 |
| fsmithred | nonfree firmare is already installed in the live-isos, but some of the broadcoms were left out, because if we include it, we become liable legal expenses if end user sues broadcom. | 22:13 |
| fsmithred | it's in the agreement you have to answer when you install it. | 22:14 |
| fsmithred | I wish we could use deadly force against some corporations. | 22:16 |
| fsmithred | oh, guest is gone. I guess he figured out his plan of attack. | 22:16 |
| brocashelm | he probably switched back to systemd | 22:17 |
| brocashelm | jk | 22:17 |
| fsmithred | that is not so easy to do | 22:17 |
| fsmithred | brocashelm, did you notice that someone was asking about runit? That was about 8 hours ago. | 22:22 |
| brocashelm | yeah i saw that. i was afk when that was brought up | 22:26 |
| fsmithred | I suspect he will be back | 22:27 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!