| debdog | regarding w i c d , upgrade Beowulf --> Chimaera: on this VM wicd stayed, including wicd-gtk. DE: lxqt; command: aptitude dist-upgrade | 00:12 |
|---|---|---|
| debdog | aptitude complained about mismatching dependencies. there was an option where it asked whether python should become python2. I've said yes to that. | 00:12 |
| debdog | fsmithred, rwp ^ | 00:12 |
| rsdestructor | Hey guys, I'm in doubt about using debian 11 with another init system vs using devuan, since the debian developers have improved the support for other initi systems in version 11. What do you guys think about this? | 00:28 |
| fsmithred | have you verified that other init systems still work in debian? | 00:30 |
| rsdestructor | fsmithred I didn't test anything, just read that sysvinit was mostly supported in debian 11 | 00:32 |
| fsmithred | except for the fact that they keep dropping init scripts from packages | 00:33 |
| fsmithred | and we're not immune to that. Fortunately, there's a package called orphan-sysvinit-scripts in debian/devuan | 00:33 |
| fsmithred | so at least they're all falling into the same hole | 00:33 |
| rsdestructor | ok, thanks | 00:38 |
| rwp | debdog, Thanks for the report. I was pretty sure that wicd + gtk would still be installed due to nothing actively removing it. | 00:40 |
| mason | Hrm, I haven't tried a no-systemd install of Debian 11 yet. | 00:45 |
| mason | I suppose I should so I can report back. | 00:45 |
| fsmithred | debdog, I added a line for beowulf in my chimaera and installed wicd-gtk. No complaints, and it works. | 01:09 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, really, hrm | 01:15 |
| golinux | fsmithred: Excellent news! | 01:26 |
| golinux | Please put it in the release notes as an option. | 01:26 |
| fsmithred | will you check to make sure there are no security vulnerabilities? | 01:29 |
| fsmithred | I'd go as far as posting it on the forum with a disclaimer of some sort. | 01:30 |
| fsmithred | wicd in chimaera (apt output): https://termbin.com/4ub9 | 02:54 |
| brocashelm | very nice | 03:08 |
| sadsnork | Thanks a bunch for the wicd info fsmithred! | 03:20 |
| fsmithred | it was debdog's discovery. | 03:21 |
| Xenguy | All hail! | 03:21 |
| sadsnork | Huzzah for debdog! :-) | 03:21 |
| debdog | but fsmithred figured out which packages exactly! | 03:22 |
| fsmithred | if someone wants to keep it on upgrade, I think they need to not have the task-*-desktop package installed | 03:22 |
| fsmithred | no, apt figured them out | 03:22 |
| Xenguy | tag team | 03:22 |
| debdog | hehe | 03:22 |
| fsmithred | all I did was remove connman and install wicd-gtk (without recommends) | 03:23 |
| brocashelm | i think this would work on a debian-based install, but not something bleeding edge like arch | 03:23 |
| fsmithred | almost forgot that last part, because it's automatic | 03:23 |
| fsmithred | No Recommends! | 03:23 |
| fsmithred | maybe that's where debdog's conflicts came from? | 03:23 |
| debdog | I have enabled this option in aptitude, too | 03:24 |
| brocashelm | more proof that not everything has to be shiny and new to work | 03:24 |
| fsmithred | if you have the default desktop install, you will end up with network-manager because it's a dep of the task- package | 03:24 |
| brocashelm | so even on a sid/ceres machine, it should be possible to mix the repositories | 03:24 |
| debdog | well, giong back to sleep... | 03:24 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I did it on chimaera, which is mostly the same as ceres right now | 03:25 |
| fsmithred | g'night. | 03:25 |
| brocashelm | it would be nice to get the kernel bumped to 5.12 one of these days on ceres | 03:25 |
| brocashelm | i've enabled beowulf and ascii a few times to get certain packages i couldn't get on chimaera or ceres (e.g. gksu, higan=0.98, alarm-clock-applet) | 03:28 |
| brocashelm | i even have install packages from some non-devuan repos like oibaf's graphics-drivers, winehq, and deb-multimedia, and there's not one hiccup in the several-plus months i've been using them | 03:32 |
| brocashelm | *installed | 03:32 |
| fsmithred | you don't keep all those repos enabled all the time, do you? | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | or you pin them | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | to avoid surprises | 03:36 |
| brocashelm | i keep them all the time :) | 03:36 |
| fsmithred | read carefully before you say yes and press enter | 03:37 |
| brocashelm | yeah, i always make sure to check potential conflicts | 03:37 |
| fsmithred | I know deb-multimedia likes to sneak in | 03:37 |
| fsmithred | we had a bunch of that in jessie, because the repo was included in some early isos | 03:38 |
| brocashelm | ah | 03:38 |
| brocashelm | it's probably different in the case of unstable as i'm only using its sid branch | 03:38 |
| fsmithred | maybe so | 03:38 |
| brocashelm | i liked getting close to upstream with packages like mpv, especially during the freeze | 03:39 |
| brocashelm | mainly all i do is update/upgrade; i'm not as adventurous as installing random packages unless i absolutely need them | 03:40 |
| brocashelm | i let apt/aptitude take care of dependency corrections | 03:41 |
| brocashelm | i obviously wouldn't do this on beowulf or chimaera (as it currently stands), but ceres is more or less about trying out what works best for your needs | 03:42 |
| brocashelm | hence why apt-listbugs and apt-listchanges are essential packages when upgrading | 03:43 |
| brocashelm | and optionally reportbug | 03:44 |
| brocashelm | also, i mentioned duckstation (playstation emulator) in #devuan-offtopic; the appimage works perfectly in devuan | 03:48 |
| brocashelm | would be a miracle if debian would package it as pcsxr is old/unmaintained and there isn't much else to choose from | 03:49 |
| ijr | The devuan netinstall iso is not working on my efi system | 04:25 |
| fsmithred | ijr, what's happening? | 04:25 |
| ijr | Nothing, it's not displaying | 04:25 |
| ijr | in the boot menu | 04:26 |
| fsmithred | usb or optical media? | 04:26 |
| fsmithred | if usb, how did you prepare it? | 04:26 |
| fsmithred | and what kind of computer is it? | 04:27 |
| ijr | "dd if=./devuan_beowulf_3.1.1_i386_netinstall.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=1M" | 04:27 |
| fsmithred | ok, good | 04:27 |
| fsmithred | and you get no boot menu? | 04:27 |
| ijr | I get the boot menu, but there is no option to boot the usb drive | 04:27 |
| fsmithred | oh | 04:28 |
| fsmithred | you probably have to press a key to get a boot device menu | 04:28 |
| fsmithred | if you're doing that and not seeing the usb... | 04:28 |
| fsmithred | maybe try a different usb | 04:28 |
| ijr | The usb is fine, my alpine iso boots on it | 04:29 |
| ijr | is something wrong with the current iso? | 04:30 |
| fsmithred | I haven't tried a uefi install with the latest iso. Earlier one worked for me. I'll look at the bug list | 04:30 |
| fsmithred | https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=devuan-installer | 04:31 |
| fsmithred | oh wait. beowulf. | 04:31 |
| fsmithred | why i386? | 04:32 |
| ijr | Oh, that's probably my problem, | 04:33 |
| ijr | my bad, it's always the simplest and last thing you check | 04:33 |
| * rrq the last place you search is where you find stuff | 04:34 | |
| fsmithred | I hate that. | 04:34 |
| ijr | btw is s6 on devuan | 04:35 |
| fsmithred | it's in the repo, but I don't think anyone is using it | 04:35 |
| fsmithred | there needs to be more work, and I think I saw a recent quote from Laurent that he's going to get to it. | 04:35 |
| ijr | How can I change my init once I have devuan installed | 04:38 |
| ijr | Oh, nevermind, I think I got it, ok I'm gonna install it | 04:43 |
| ijr | After installing devuan it said grub-efi-amd64 failed to install to /target/ or something like that. How can I fix this? | 05:33 |
| ijr | Now my grub for Gentoo is failing too | 05:36 |
| ijr | No wait, it just booted to the wrong entry, i still can't figure out devuan's grub | 05:37 |
| jaafarrc | Should I wait until Chimaera is ready before installing Devuan? | 13:53 |
| djph | jaafarrc: no need to do that | 13:56 |
| djph | I'm running Chimaera right now on my daily driver | 13:56 |
| manis_ | I'd install Chimaera already now. I don't think there will be many major changes until official release, since Debian bullseye has already been released. | 13:58 |
| djph | yep, it's been pretty rock solid for me | 13:58 |
| jaafarrc | Do the server ISOs have firmware? I kinda need that. | 14:28 |
| jaafarrc | Nevermind, they do. | 14:32 |
| djph | jaafarrc: basically the only thing that "server" versions lack (to my understanding) is a default selection for X11 and a DE (and, well, all the stuff those would bring, including libreofficce / network mangler / etc.) | 14:42 |
| jaafarrc | Of course, I am aware. | 14:42 |
| jaafarrc | I am getting it for my server after all, (if it even works.) | 14:42 |
| djph | good thing on servers - they usually don't have stuff that relies on nonfree modules (ala iwlwifi) | 14:43 |
| jaafarrc | Well, sadly, I am repurposing a consumer-grade laptop (MacBook Pro 5,5) to be a server, so I still had to get firmware in other distros. | 14:44 |
| djph | ... yes, let's use words that have one meaning to mean something else... | 14:47 |
| djph | anyway, yep, you're gonna need a host of nonfree modules for that | 14:47 |
| jaafarrc | I'm confused: I'm in the Devuan installer right now and I'm at the "some of your hardware needs non-free firmware to operate" part,when I click <Yes>, it just brings me to the same part again. I thought the firmware was supposed to be in the same media, but, no? | 14:50 |
| djph | jaafarrc: non-free firmware is not included in the devuan installer. It is the exact same behavior / ideology as in Debian | 14:52 |
| djph | you would need to provide the non-free firmware yourself (or skip it, then bring it across manually later) | 14:52 |
| jaafarrc | Where would the firmware files be? | 15:04 |
| rrq | afaik /cdrom/firmware should have links to all non-free firmware packagaes in the pool | 15:06 |
| jaafarrc | rrq: and the installer does install these right? | 15:09 |
| jaafarrc | Well, where I download more firmware from Devuan? Do I just use the ones from Debian? | 15:10 |
| rrq | the ISO already has all the available firmware packages; which do you need? | 15:11 |
| jaafarrc | "The missing firmware files are: regulatory.db b43/ucode16_mimo.fw b43/ucode16_mimo.fw b43-open/ucode16_mimo.fw b43-open/ucode16_mimo.fw" | 15:13 |
| jaafarrc | The installer mentions them twice for some reason. | 15:13 |
| rrq | hmm that looks like broadcom wireless | 15:15 |
| jaafarrc | Yeah. | 15:15 |
| jaafarrc | I want the wl driver. Could I just get the DEB for that and add it to the USB? | 15:15 |
| rrq | I think these are not available as packages, but there are packages that downloads | 15:16 |
| jaafarrc | The wl driver is in the broadcom-sta-dkms package. | 15:16 |
| jaafarrc | IIRC. | 15:16 |
| rrq | http://deb.devuan.org/merged/pool/DEBIAN/non-free/b/broadcom-sta/broadcom-sta-dkms_6.30.223.271-17_all.deb | 15:18 |
| rrq | that's for chimaera ... probably not on the ISO | 15:18 |
| jaafarrc | I seem to have `firmware-b43-installer` and `firmware-b43legacy-installer` already added. | 15:19 |
| jaafarrc | But I prefer `wl`. | 15:19 |
| rrq | right; not sure about dkms .. I'll check | 15:20 |
| fsmithred | with that broadcom, you need to have a network connection to get the software that lets you have a network connection. Use a wire if you have an ethernet port. | 15:21 |
| fsmithred | if not, then you are one of the people who needs that first question in the installer about supplying the missing firmware. | 15:22 |
| fsmithred | there were some discussions on the dng mailing list a few years ago about where to download the needed ucode files. | 15:23 |
| rrq | yes; dkms is only in the "desktop" pool, and broadcom-sta-dkms is not in any ISO | 15:28 |
| fluffywolf | I thought one of our features was we included more firmware on the install media? | 15:30 |
| rrq | yes, all available firmware pacakges are included | 15:31 |
| rrq | that broadcom firmware cannot be included on an ISO, but it's supported through a donwloading package | 15:32 |
| rrq | well "cannot" is within the realm of legality | 15:33 |
| brocashelm | i know refracta provides debs of firmware out of the box | 15:34 |
| jaafarrc | rrq: Legality? Oh, I see. I'll just add it (alongside `dkms`) to my own USB. Are there any deps I'll need? I'm using the very minimal `server` ISO after all. | 15:35 |
| rrq | the additional installs I got (without recommends) are the following two lines: | 15:36 |
| rrq | broadcom-sta-dkms dctrl-tools dkms dpkg-dev gcc gcc-10 libasan6 libcc1-0 | 15:37 |
| rrq | libgcc-10-dev libitm1 liblsan0 libtsan0 libubsan1 make patch | 15:37 |
| rrq | some of those are already on the iso | 15:37 |
| jaafarrc | Ok. | 15:37 |
| jaafarrc | I was checking the pkginfo for it, and there seems to be vertical lines (|) and commas, what do the vertical lines mean? | 15:38 |
| rrq | means "or" | 15:38 |
| jaafarrc | I guessed so. | 15:38 |
| fsmithred | some of the broadcoms have catch-22, more than once. | 15:41 |
| fsmithred | as mentioned, the package only contains the installer, and if for instance we included it installed in the live-iso, we have to agree to pay any legal expenses if the end user sues broadcom. | 15:42 |
| fsmithred | There's one or two intel firmware packages that also demand an eula. | 15:43 |
| jaafarrc | `broadcom-sta-dkms` is an installer? | 15:43 |
| fsmithred | no, but I think that gives you the same or similar drive that the b43-installer does | 15:44 |
| fsmithred | the 'sta' package builds the driver on your system. | 15:45 |
| jaafarrc | An installer implies the package contains some sorta script that you run to install the firmware, right? | 15:45 |
| rrq | perhaps it downloads the actual firmware durint the dkms module building | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | yeah, it runs automatically | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | I think you're right, rrq | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | This package provides the source code for the wl kernel modules and makes use | 15:47 |
| fsmithred | of the DKMS build utility to install them for the running kernel. The | 15:47 |
| fsmithred | alternative package broadcom-sta-source can be used instead in case of build | 15:47 |
| fsmithred | problems. | 15:47 |
| jaafarrc | Your messages seem to be splitting up into different lines. | 15:53 |
| jaafarrc | Anyway, I'll add what I need post-install. | 15:54 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I pasted a short piece from the output of 'apt show broadcom-sta-dkms' | 15:55 |
| fsmithred | and I should also mention that pasting multiple lines can sometimes get you booted out of the room (automatically) | 15:56 |
| jaafarrc | I'll try not to do that, hopefully. | 15:56 |
| rrq | jaafarrc: I tried a -s install of broadcom-sta-dkms on a minimal server install and got a few more needed packages | 16:03 |
| rrq | the full list is 4 lines: | 16:03 |
| rrq | binutils binutils-common binutils-x86-64-linux-gnu broadcom-sta-dkms cpp | 16:03 |
| rrq | cpp-10 dctrl-tools dkms dpkg-dev gcc gcc-10 libasan6 libatomic1 libbinutils | 16:03 |
| rrq | libcc1-0 libctf-nobfd0 libctf0 libdpkg-perl libgcc-10-dev libgomp1 libisl23 | 16:03 |
| rrq | libitm1 liblsan0 libmpc3 libmpfr6 libquadmath0 libtsan0 libubsan1 make patch | 16:04 |
| rrq | .. again, some of those might be on the ISO | 16:04 |
| rrq | but weren't installed with the minimal installation | 16:04 |
| rrq | (minimal = only include standard utilities) | 16:05 |
| jaafarrc | Alright. | 16:07 |
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