systemdlete | turns out that slim was not the (only?) problem. I'm still getting lockups at random times. | 00:46 |
---|---|---|
rwp | systemdlete, My scrollback doesn't go far enough back. What problems are you having? | 00:47 |
systemdlete | I have a radeon card I could use instead of the nvidia card. | 00:47 |
systemdlete | nvidia (nouveau driver) on beowulf causes random lockups | 00:47 |
rwp | Are you having nvidia card lockups? I had that problem so bad I switched out my nvidia card for an AMD Radeon card. | 00:47 |
systemdlete | but the exact same card (nouveau driver) on ascii on same machine works without incident. | 00:48 |
systemdlete | (see above rwp) | 00:48 |
rwp | The card is okay but something in the last six months in the mainstream kernel drivers or something in that path changed. | 00:48 |
systemdlete | that's what I am thinking also | 00:48 |
systemdlete | crap | 00:48 |
systemdlete | and no one else noticed this problem but you and me? | 00:48 |
rwp | I have used the same setup here for probably three years. And then one day after a kernel upgrade I would have lockups. | 00:48 |
systemdlete | funny that | 00:48 |
rwp | Then another upgrade and the problem was same but different. | 00:49 |
systemdlete | nice | 00:49 |
rwp | But it would be after fast screen activity. Such as scrolling fast or anything that updated the X graphics quickly. | 00:49 |
rwp | Very repeatable. | 00:49 |
systemdlete | rwp: Did the relase notes for the kernel upgrade mention anything about changes to the driver? | 00:49 |
rwp | And if I waited 2 minutes the linux kernel watchdog would kick things and then I could do something again. | 00:49 |
systemdlete | I waited several minutes also. No change. | 00:50 |
rwp | I gave up trying to figure the problem out. So I swapped from nvidia to an AMD Radeon. | 00:50 |
systemdlete | rwp: Keep in mind, this is brand-spanking-new beowulf net install. | 00:50 |
systemdlete | rwp: ! | 00:50 |
rwp | The Radeon drivers are very mainstream these days and I have not had any problems with them for a while. | 00:50 |
systemdlete | lol. | 00:50 |
systemdlete | It's not their turn. | 00:50 |
rwp | That it is a fresh Beowulf install does not change the problem at all. I was actually running Ceres when I first experienced the problem. | 00:51 |
rwp | And that kernel has trickled down through everything now. | 00:51 |
systemdlete | I only mentioned that because perhaps you might think I did not upgrade | 00:51 |
rwp | I am sure that if you were to install a pristine ASCII that everything would be fine. Or if you were to otherwise downgrade to the older kernel everything would be okay. | 00:52 |
systemdlete | I've been getting pushed here to upgrade to beowulf, so I tried. Several times. Each time I had different problems, primarily with video issues | 00:52 |
systemdlete | Well, I do have a radeon card here. It's still in shrinkwrap, so... | 00:52 |
systemdlete | HD5450 VisionTek | 00:53 |
rwp | In that case I suggest stop causing yourself pain and swap the cards around. Save yourself! | 00:53 |
systemdlete | save my sanity! | 00:53 |
systemdlete | yes | 00:53 |
rwp | I am also running two AMD HD 5450 cards here. Very solid cards. | 00:53 |
systemdlete | Ah! good to know | 00:53 |
systemdlete | that is reassuring. | 00:54 |
systemdlete | thanks | 00:54 |
rwp | Actually, let me count them up. I have four of those in different machines spread out. All trouble free so far. | 00:54 |
systemdlete | I will need to shut down completely and swap the hardware. | 00:54 |
systemdlete | (wow) | 00:54 |
systemdlete | that's very good | 00:54 |
rwp | HP used to ship them in their HP workstations. That's how I ended up with three of them. And I bought another one after that. | 00:55 |
systemdlete | you know, I can't stand the notion of "throwing more hardware at the problem." But I'll make an exception here | 00:55 |
systemdlete | bbl... | 00:55 |
systemdlete | back. Yeah, this does seem much better so far. | 01:22 |
systemdlete | All I had to do was install the firmware for radeon. Rebooted and viola! | 01:22 |
systemdlete | here I am | 01:22 |
systemdlete | :) | 01:22 |
systemdlete | Now I can look forward to the perils of chimaera... | 01:23 |
systemdlete | but at least I am off ascii, which was beginning to be a bit of a drag. | 01:23 |
systemdlete | thanks rwp! | 01:23 |
rwp | Good luck systemdlete! And yes, I love the transportability of Linux systems. Just swap things around and it all works. | 01:42 |
systemdlete | I order something on newegg but it gets fulfilled and delivered by Amazon? Can someone please tell me why I went to newegg then? | 02:00 |
systemdlete | wtf... | 02:00 |
fsmithred | that sucks. | 02:01 |
systemdlete | I'm trying hard NOT to give Bezos any more money than he already has taken from us all. So I shop newegg and some others. | 02:04 |
systemdlete | or I thought I was shopping newegg | 02:04 |
rwp | Newegg is a retail frontend for a lot of other businesses. I bought some disks from Newegg and they were "order fulfilment" from Serveronics. | 02:04 |
rwp | And in that case Serveronics screwed me over shipping old used refurbished drives! Those buggers! RMA and returned immediately. | 02:05 |
systemdlete | then what the heck is newegg? | 02:05 |
rwp | So maybe that was the case with Amazon too? Just one of the retailers Newegg fronted for? | 02:05 |
systemdlete | if Newegg is going to play these games also, I might as well shop Amazon then. | 02:05 |
rwp | Just be sure to check that the order fulfilment is by Newegg. And that the channel is #devuan-offtopic! :-) | 02:06 |
fsmithred | tigerdirect? are they still around? | 02:06 |
systemdlete | are they competing or colluding? | 02:06 |
systemdlete | I used tigerdirect also from time to time | 02:06 |
systemdlete | I might go back to them, yes... | 02:06 |
fsmithred | oops. thanks rwp | 02:06 |
systemdlete | rwp: Right. | 02:06 |
systemdlete | bbl | 02:07 |
golinux | systemdlete: That's been going on for years. There used to be an option to only see items from newegg that filtered all the other "fulfillment" options. | 02:27 |
phogg | you go to newegg because their filter mechanism is excellent and many other places aren't that good. Once you find the part number you don't necessarily buy from newegg. | 02:30 |
systemdlete | phogg: Yeah. I know how it works. The trouble is, when I purchase from a vendor in a specific marketplace (e.g., Newegg, Amazon, etc), I expect that *THAT* marketplace fulfills the order, not one of the OTHER marketplaces. | 03:50 |
systemdlete | I think what happened to me is that the vendor probably has storefronts on several marketplaces (that's common) | 03:51 |
systemdlete | But he decided to fulfill my order through a different marketplace, maybe because it costs him less. Idk. But this amounts to grand collusion and is a violation of anti-trust. | 03:51 |
systemdlete | It means consumers have fewer choices. | 03:52 |
systemdlete | And I resent that deeply. I mean, tbh, I resent the whole stinking system in the first place. But the players can't even stick to the rules in the system as they stand. | 03:52 |
systemdlete | The "theory" behind capitalism is competition drives prices down. This works for wages, not so much for retail prices. But anyway, this IS the support channel... | 03:54 |
Guest73 | Hi. Some time ago I asked about help with the wireless connection because it was bugged to me. | 07:22 |
Guest73 | I got recommended connmann, and I installed it, though I decided to go back to the Network-Manager, and to uninstall connmann, what resulted with problems with n-m that led to me using if-up, and if-down | 07:25 |
Guest73 | I decided to stay on that, for some time as it seemed to be fine, at least then, when I didn't need to connect to some other wireless connections. | 07:27 |
Guest73 | But it came out that my connection is bugged also, while using if-up, and if-down. | 07:27 |
Guest73 | It randomly ceases to work, and then I have some chance to turn it on again, after using if-down, and if-up again. | 07:28 |
Guest73 | But it also happened once, that the wlan0 interface got somehow lost and wasn't detected, so I needed to restart pc for it to work again. | 07:29 |
Guest73 | Could anybody here know what could work wrong, how to check, and fix it? | 07:29 |
Guest73 | I would like to finally have a stable connection. | 07:30 |
Guest73 | And it was never quite stable as long as I worked with Linux, with my wireless card. | 07:31 |
gnarface | Guest73: sounds like a problem with the driver or firmware; they're part of the kernel so the easiest way to try fixing it is try another kernel version | 07:42 |
gnarface | well, some wifi non-free firmware is packaged separately from the kernel, but i assume you have the latest of those | 07:42 |
gnarface | there's a newer kernel (and possibly wifi firmware too) in beowulf-backports | 07:43 |
gnarface | maybe try that | 07:43 |
Guest73 | I have some doubts if another kernel version would fix it. | 07:43 |
Guest73 | It is not like I didn't upgraded it many times before, | 07:44 |
Guest73 | Could I check somehow what exactly could go wrong previously? Like, what kind of error? Last time when I tried to ifdown, and ifup again, it helped. Just for some reson it ceased to work, and needed to do this again, | 07:46 |
Guest73 | the device is Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 3165 | 07:54 |
Guest73 | I also did install the non-free drivers | 08:03 |
gnarface | well, i admit it's no guarantee changing kernels would fix it. it's not overly likely to work it's just the only option you have right now | 08:03 |
gnarface | you can of course try to debug it by error message, check dmesg when it fails | 08:04 |
gnarface | but even if you find a fix that way it'll probably still involve changing kernels, fair warning | 08:04 |
gnarface | only other thing i can think of is if it's a built-in wifi device and this is a laptop, try checking for updates BIOS | 08:05 |
gnarface | i assume you've tested other wifi devices? | 08:05 |
gnarface | if you have only tested this one we don't know for sure it isn't an issue with the router | 08:06 |
gnarface | basically the only path other than examining kernel code directly or changing the kernel arbitrarily is pedantic deductive testing so since that's expensive i recommended trying the backports kernel first, sometimes you get lucky | 08:07 |
gnarface | i guess i assumed you hadn't got any error messages when it failed | 08:07 |
gnarface | did you find any? | 08:08 |
gnarface | check the dmesg output and the /var/log/*.log files | 08:08 |
gnarface | and /var/log/syslog | 08:08 |
gnarface | you might find a useful error message but for this type of failure i wasn't betting on it | 08:09 |
gnarface | not without kernel debugging flags enabled anyway | 08:09 |
gnarface | trying to recreate the issue with any other wifi router is useful testing too | 08:10 |
gnarface | if you can narrow down any conditions it occurs under that would help | 08:10 |
gnarface | just remember you might not be looking for it dropping the connection; consider that maybe something environmental is causing that and the failure is to reconnect | 08:12 |
gnarface | or maybe the driver is just locking up, which is what it sounded more like that last time when you had to reboot | 08:12 |
gnarface | but it could just be a power management glitch too | 08:14 |
tomtastic | Whats going on with debians package updates, they seem to have slowed a lot recently ? | 13:49 |
lts | Testing freeze due to bullseye? | 13:50 |
tomtastic | Ahh | 13:50 |
tomtastic | Maybe thats it. haven't seen an update for openzfs in over 4 months | 13:50 |
buZz | tomtastic: fyi, debian 11 came out about a month ago | 14:09 |
buZz | iirc | 14:09 |
buZz | if you desire some update, maybe look at backports | 14:09 |
buZz | or migrate to devuan chimaera and help find bugs ;) | 14:09 |
tomtastic | I'm on ceres already ;) | 14:12 |
buZz | hope you got backups of that zfs volume ;) | 14:13 |
tomtastic | sure do, zfs send is awesome. | 14:13 |
buZz | anyway, if '4 months without update' is too worrysome, maybe you'd rather run archlinux? :D | 14:13 |
buZz | break install at every update \o | 14:13 |
tomtastic | I just like the new ZFS releases, some nice updates have been coming out this year so far | 14:14 |
buZz | debian (and devuan obv) are not distros for 'number goes up, UPGRADE' usage :D | 14:14 |
tomtastic | I could build from source, but I'm lazy | 14:14 |
buZz | arch is, and breaks often | 14:15 |
tomtastic | for some reason I woke up this morning thinking about Slackware (my first distro, installed from floppies) | 14:16 |
tomtastic | I wonder if they went systemd.... | 14:16 |
brocashelm | tomtastic: i also use ceres. it's less work to maintain than other "stable" distros | 15:39 |
tomtastic | I have a fairly paired down install, it's a headless box I only use for a few docker images, a samba server and general always-on duties. | 15:41 |
gnarface | last i heard, slackware was also still free of systemd | 15:43 |
tomtastic | nice, i wonder if they ever got package management :) | 15:49 |
tomtastic | or if it's still just tarballs | 15:50 |
jonadab | The way Slackware fans tell it, they have a package manager, it just uses tarballs as its package format. | 20:46 |
jonadab | Though I don't know how much it does in the way of dependency resolution and so on. | 20:46 |
user____ | It uses .xz compressed tar these days, and it does no dep resolution by itself, but there are tools which do that instead. | 20:56 |
user____ | Roughly the Slackware `installpkg` `removepkg` etc commands correspond to `dpkg install` and `dpkg purge`. The equivalent of apt or synaptic or aptitude is higher level. | 20:57 |
user____ | Specifically https://docs.slackware.com/slackware:slackpkg and there are others | 20:58 |
user____ | So no need to diss / urban legend propagate stuff, we are no longer in the 1990s when slackpkg did not exist :) | 20:59 |
mason | FWIW, the things that do dependency management don't actually do it for base packages in Slackware, only for things like SlackBuilds packages. | 20:59 |
user____ | Correct. | 20:59 |
mason | For minimal base installs, there's stuff like http://www.slackware.com/~vbatts/minimal/ and https://github.com/vbatts | 21:00 |
user____ | Slack minimal / default iso installs usually cover all that is needed to get a running system. | 21:01 |
mason | Default leaves you with a mammoth eight gigs of cruft. | 21:01 |
user____ | Slack also has genius tagfiles which permit complete automation of installations | 21:01 |
mason | That's true. | 21:01 |
user____ | mason: not ime. https://www.slackbook.org/html/package-management-making-tags-and-tagfiles.html | 21:02 |
mason | user____: That should come with the caveat that coming up with a coherent set is considerable work. | 21:02 |
user____ | True. But there is copious info for getting the system up and running. | 21:02 |
mason | This is why I really like innate dependencies. | 21:02 |
systemdlete | fsmithred: Completed an install of refracta 11, asked me to reboot, so I rebooted but ended up in a recovery shell. | 21:03 |
user____ | After all, Slackware is not gentoo, where they give you a compiler and a good luck one liner message | 21:03 |
mason | hah | 21:03 |
systemdlete | I did this in a VM, btw, not hardware. | 21:03 |
systemdlete | (I do have a couple of hardware PCs I can try it on also.) | 21:04 |
brocashelm | there is #devuan-offtopic for anything not relating to devuan, btw | 21:05 |
mason | brocashelm: We were implicitly lauding Devuan's hierarchical dependency management, as compared with the competition. | 21:07 |
user____ | ;) | 21:09 |
brocashelm | mason: i'm pretty sure this channel is for support; if i wanted to talk about any other distro, even just to compare them, i'd more likely move the discussion elsewhere | 21:11 |
user____ | Ok, I apologize for starting this :) | 21:11 |
user____ | No more flaming please, it's hot enough as is. | 21:12 |
brocashelm | mason: but you are the channel admin, so you set the example you want people to follow :) | 21:12 |
mason | brocashelm: Gods no. I'm no channel admin, at least as of the last time I looked. | 21:12 |
user____ | 😇 | 21:12 |
mason | Yeah, no ops for me. I was too intolerant of anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers and the whole right-wing thing generally. | 21:14 |
mason | So the ops bits quietly slid away when we moved to Libera. | 21:14 |
mason | All hush-hush-like. :P | 21:14 |
brocashelm | ah ok | 21:14 |
mason | I'd only initially gotten ops to be able to stifle some vehement anti-semitic stuff that was previously a problem, and that hasn't come back recently. | 21:18 |
golinux | brocashelm: Thanks for attempting to keep the kiddos in line | 21:19 |
brocashelm | :D | 21:19 |
golinux | Slow learners some of them . . . | 21:19 |
mason | Must be the vaccine booster I got. Too much brainpower going into the government network. | 21:21 |
mason | I'll try to do better. | 21:21 |
brocashelm | yeah, i'm only interested in talking about devuan, so the other subjects going to -offtopic is better IMO | 21:21 |
* user____ has a sore arm to show for shot #2 -- golinux you were right, the vaccine is dangeours -- to the channel | 21:21 | |
golinux | Please to to offtopic . . . | 21:22 |
golinux | go to | 21:22 |
user____ | I'm already there, relax. Thanks for the patience. | 21:22 |
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