Hydragyrum | wait is daedalus already released? <https://www.devuan.org/os/releases> says no, but it exists in the repos (I set one of my testing VMs' sources.list to point at daedalus and it worked) | 04:11 |
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gnarface | well, once chimera is released something would need to occupy the "testing" slot it vacated, right? | 04:11 |
gnarface | that's normal expected operations | 04:12 |
gnarface | good to see they're ahead of schedule on setup this time | 04:12 |
gnarface | no, that doesn't mean daedalus is "released" | 04:12 |
gnarface | it might mean you can install and test it though | 04:12 |
Hydragyrum | so it's just staged testing for when chimaera becomes stable | 04:12 |
gnarface | that's my assumption, yes, though admittedly i'm not on the inside loop | 04:13 |
gnarface | chimera should be stable very soon now i think | 04:13 |
blockhead | cooool | 04:13 |
gnarface | again, that's based on pure hearsay though | 04:13 |
blockhead | understood | 04:13 |
Hydragyrum | chimaera's been pretty stable for a while now, I've noticed a huge dropoff in package updates (maybe a couple a week?) and the installer for it installs -security and -backports (commented) entries in sources.list | 04:14 |
Hydragyrum | found a forum post (http://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=4461) from august 21st | 04:15 |
Hydragyrum | looks like someone else found it a while ago | 04:15 |
Hydragyrum | re: earlier gitlab stuff, I got a different error message trying to install with the package in the repo on ceres, <https://termbin.com/j3ib> | 07:41 |
onefang | Do you need all of gitlab / github type stuff, or just a web front end to git? I use cgit. | 07:47 |
Hydragyrum | this is with regards to someone's earlier need for a git server deal (EmanuelLoos[m]), looking like gitea's the best/easiest option | 07:53 |
ham5urg_ | Is there a way to install X instead wayland with a debootstraped chimaera? My laptop crushes to often. | 21:54 |
ham5urg_ | A non-gui login and an old startx would be nice | 21:54 |
fsmithred | apt install xorg | 21:56 |
fsmithred | and maybe --no-install-recommends with that | 21:57 |
fsmithred | then install the wm of your choice, without a display manager | 21:59 |
ham5urg_ | Wayland has forced Xorg to be installed too. Is there a simple way I could switch/deactivate wayland? I use gdm/gnome. | 22:02 |
fsmithred | how did you get wayland? I don't recall ever getting that on any debootstrap or other kind of install | 22:03 |
ham5urg_ | If I recall correctly I installed a package like gnome-desktop-base or similar. | 22:03 |
ham5urg_ | There is /etc/gdm3/daemon.conf and inside I've found #WaylandEnable=false | 22:05 |
fsmithred | I forgot that you're using gnome. | 22:05 |
fsmithred | that looks promising | 22:05 |
fsmithred | uncomment and restart gdm | 22:05 |
ham5urg_ | yes | 22:06 |
fsmithred | I don't know if disabling gdm entirely would work. | 22:06 |
fsmithred | you would probably lose some privs, like shutdown/reboot | 22:06 |
ham5urg | fsmithred, no success with /etc/gdm3/daemon.conf . Gdm3 starts fine but when sitching over to gnome3 it breaks. I guess gnome3 is not anymore xorg compatible. | 22:16 |
ham5urg | Pity times... | 22:16 |
golinux | Why would that surprise you? Gnome is a good part of what got us here. | 22:17 |
blockhead | @golinux: word | 22:17 |
fsmithred | our main mailing list: dng = "Debian's not Gnome" (might not be true anymore.) | 22:18 |
ham5urg | golinux, yes. | 22:20 |
ham5urg | What WM do you use? KDE or something smaller like xfce? | 22:23 |
fsmithred | Those are full desktop environments. | 22:24 |
fsmithred | I use xfce | 22:24 |
fsmithred | window managers are lighter. openbox, fluxbox, icewm, jwm, many others. | 22:24 |
golinux | slim ftw | 22:28 |
ham5urg | Is there a technical difference between WM (lighter) and full desktop env. (heavier) except the amount of programs which are installed to control GUI (e.g. programs like complex menus, complex settings etc.)? | 22:33 |
Hydragyrum | A WM is just the window manager, a desktop environment includes a window manager, settings, bars and panels, application launchers that aren't dmenu, etc. | 22:36 |
Hydragyrum | i.e. KDE usually uses kwin as the window manager, but can also use i3wm | 22:36 |
Hydragyrum | but kde also has the settings interface, taskbar things, widgets, launchers, etc. | 22:37 |
ham5urg | I understand. Thanks. | 22:39 |
ham5urg | Is dmenu a X.org simple standarized menu? | 22:40 |
Hydragyrum | dmenu's a text-based, wm and de-independent very simple menu | 22:40 |
ham5urg | ok | 22:41 |
Hydragyrum | it's commonly used when using a WM without a DE | 22:41 |
ham5urg | What I never really understood, how a WM or a full desktop environment can start an application which is not 'designed' for it. E.g., Evolution is a gtk+ app. but will start under KDE too. | 22:43 |
Hydragyrum | kde supports gtk+ -- gtk is just a graphical toolkit, and although some things are designed to integrate well with certain DEs, they still follow the normal X standards -- allowing them to run under anything with a compliant X server (usually including XWayland) | 22:55 |
Xenguy | ham5urg, If you are shopping for a DE, MATE is like GNOME2 | 23:02 |
ham5urg | I will check some DEs and WMs inside a VM and see how it goes. But this gnome3 thing has to end. First I quitted Debian, now I quit Gnome. Looks like any mainstream is getting destroyed, sooner or later. | 23:09 |
Hydragyrum | more mainstream things tend to get more features and bloat shoved in, and with gnome3 and a couple others, they started using 3d acceleration for the DE, making it run badly without a gpu | 23:13 |
sgage | I am a big MATE fan, and Devuan's implementation is fine. | 23:15 |
sgage | Been using it for years. | 23:15 |
ham5urg | Hydragyrum, I could live with that (3d accel.) but this wayland-thing is too much. Anywhere it states that wayland is way faster, but, is the guess wrong that any X-application with 3d-accel. will have very similar performance? | 23:17 |
ham5urg | Is a chimaera dektop-live-iso out there? | 23:17 |
Hydragyrum | wayland's new and intended to replace X because of some issues with how some of X works and is handled | 23:18 |
ham5urg | chimaera iso are avail. | 23:19 |
Hydragyrum | ham5urg, yes there are, here's (one) link for one <https://devuan.unetresgrossebite.com/devuan_chimaera/desktop-live/devuan_chimaera_4.0.beta2_2021-09-04_amd64_desktop-live.iso> | 23:20 |
nemo | shame wayland breaks my stuff | 23:20 |
ham5urg | nemo, why? | 23:21 |
nemo | ham5urg: I use xdotools and ssh -Y a lot. on phone and w/ various machines at home and work. | 23:21 |
Hydragyrum | yeah wayland's not really that ready and breaks for a number of X things because of some things about its security model | 23:21 |
nemo | ham5urg: in addition, it appears waylands security model is still not up to snuff, to make things work they are still basically at X level - at least when last time this argument came up on HN | 23:21 |
nemo | in addition wayland native stuff often is buggy just due to sheer newness. like Firefox | 23:22 |
nemo | so. all in all, I'm avoiding it | 23:22 |
nemo | I have no perf issues that I care about on X | 23:22 |
nemo | games are fast. browser (with acceleration enabled) is fast. desktop is totally fine. | 23:22 |
ham5urg | xfce uses a non-nm network-manger I guess. | 23:26 |
nemo | wouldn't know | 23:26 |
ham5urg | Do I have to use the terminal for networking on simple WM? | 23:26 |
nemo | I use MATE | 23:26 |
sgage | I have no performance issues with X, or any other kind of issue as far as I can tell. | 23:26 |
nemo | sgage: ditto | 23:27 |
nemo | sgage: also an X desktop still works with underpowered hardware without GL acceleration | 23:27 |
nemo | sgage: which I still need on one of the laptops at home just to get gaming working | 23:27 |
nemo | (intel) | 23:27 |
nemo | (disabling desktop compositing necessary just to not have corruption in browser and games) | 23:27 |
nemo | can't run games and browser simultaneously either, but eh... | 23:27 |
Hydragyrum | even running DE-less i3wm here I can use nm-tray just fine | 23:34 |
* _ds_ prefers /etc/network/interfaces | 23:39 | |
Hydragyrum | well, wifi is a bit of a pain sometimes, easier to just poke buttons every time I need to disconnect/reconnect | 23:39 |
sgage | ConnMan runs fine on Chimaera. I tested it just for grins, but I don't use it - | 23:41 |
sgage | I prefer to run with wired ethernet. Faster, and there's enough EMR in my life. | 23:41 |
* blockhead is using connman. so far, it works fine in blackbox, fvwm and dwm | 23:41 | |
_ds_ | Much the same here. Wired where practical, wireless otherwise. | 23:42 |
ham5urg | Is there a X-network-manager? | 23:45 |
Hydragyrum | nm-tray is the most universally functional NetworkManager frontend I've found | 23:45 |
Hydragyrum | should just be as simple as `apt install nm-tray` | 23:46 |
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