| systemdlete | I am running wireshark on beowulf which is at version 2.6.20. Is there a newer version somewhere for beowulf? | 00:25 |
|---|---|---|
| systemdlete | thanks | 00:25 |
| golinux | systemdlete: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=wireshark&x=submit | 00:27 |
| golinux | pkginfo is the go-to place to answer questions .like that. | 00:28 |
| ksx4system | golinux, or apt-cache madison maybe ;) | 00:52 |
| rwp | ksx4system, apt-cache madison is useful but... It's not the same information as https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?q=wireshark | 00:56 |
| rwp | The pkginfo.devuan.org page lists all available versions of the package across all of the suites. | 00:56 |
| * golinux prefers gui interface | 00:57 | |
| golinux | Extended terminal time drives me a but nuts . . . | 00:57 |
| rwp | Heretic! Get the dogs and torches! :-) | 00:58 |
| systemdlete | backports doesn't seem to have it. I am leery of running a ceres or chimaera package on beowulf... | 01:03 |
| golinux | systemdlete: There is a way to backport packages | 01:15 |
| systemdlete | I'm sure there is. In this instance, though, I'm not sure I need the new features that badly. It's mainly convenience. | 01:16 |
| systemdlete | or do you mean by submitting a backport request? | 01:16 |
| golinux | I was thinking of do-it-yourself | 01:18 |
| golinux | Other option is upgrade to chimaera | 01:18 |
| rwp | systemdlete, chimaera is so close to release now (days? weeks?) that I would not be expecting a backport. | 01:23 |
| rwp | Depending upon your flexibility then chimaera might be perfectly suitable now even. | 01:24 |
| rwp | With all of the cautions that it isn't quite actually released yet. | 01:24 |
| rwp | Or perhaps knowing that chimaera is so very close to release then you could put up with the beowulf version for a few more days and wait for the release. | 01:24 |
| systemdlete | rwp: You are so right. That's kind of why I was saying I am in no hurry for this new version of wireshark | 01:27 |
| rwp | Wireshark is using libpcap and though I haven't programmed with it I don't think the newer version is incompatible API wise with the old. | 01:30 |
| rwp | Which means that a self-backport might be very easy. Wouldn't know without trying. | 01:30 |
| rwp | Install the build dependencies: apt-get build-dep wireshark | 01:31 |
| rwp | Then in your home grab the new version package source, rebuild it, and then try it. If it is easy then it works. If not then wait. (shrug) | 01:31 |
| systemdlete | I'm installing chimaera... | 02:55 |
| Hydragyrum | >installing -- do you mean you're doing a full reinstall just to change major versions? Changing the line(s) in sources.list (`sed -i.old s/beowulf/chimaera/g /etc/apt/sources.list`) should suffice | 03:00 |
| systemdlete | yeah. What could possibly go wrong with that? | 03:10 |
| ShorTie | fresh intall is best imho | 03:11 |
| systemdlete | a used car is the same as a new car | 03:11 |
| systemdlete | I like that "old car" smell myself... | 03:11 |
| systemdlete | sorry Hydragyrum, I'm just a little punchy atm | 03:12 |
| adhoc | systemdlete: if the used car is new to you, it is new? | 03:17 |
| adhoc | =) | 03:17 |
| adhoc | also, morning | 03:17 |
| systemdlete | adhoc: That is far too philosophical for me to answer. | 03:18 |
| adhoc | =) | 03:18 |
| systemdlete | I think it has something to do with a "frame of reference" | 03:18 |
| systemdlete | but I am not 100% certain | 03:18 |
| adhoc | for me the three questions are; is it comfortable enough, is it practical enough, is it fun enough | 03:18 |
| adhoc | ;) | 03:18 |
| systemdlete | what about gas mileage adhoc? | 03:18 |
| systemdlete | and do they still make parts for it? | 03:19 |
| adhoc | who cares if the car is not new, i'll get better value for money | 03:19 |
| adhoc | practical covers fuel economy | 03:19 |
| systemdlete | but this should go to -offtopic... | 03:19 |
| * adhoc went from a small car that ran 6 liters per 100 km, to know that ran 9.2/100. | 03:19 | |
| adhoc | sure | 03:20 |
| adhoc | no fun here =P | 03:20 |
| adhoc | i recently upgraded some boxes from beowulf to chimaera so I could get wiregaurd from the main repo. | 08:48 |
| adhoc | however chimaera does not seem to have quagga packages | 08:49 |
| adhoc | is there a backports repo I'm missing or just failing to find the right search terms ? | 08:50 |
| gnarface | if it is up already it should be called chimera-backports | 08:51 |
| gnarface | it might not be up quite yet, not sure | 08:51 |
| gnarface | yea it looks like it is present | 08:52 |
| gnarface | chimaera-backports | 08:52 |
| gnarface | don't forget that if you add it to your sources.list without removing the others you have to add "-t chimaera-backports" to the apt-get and apt-cache command-lines | 08:53 |
| adhoc | oh, | 08:53 |
| gnarface | but i would recommend not leaving it enabled | 08:53 |
| * adhoc tries that | 08:53 | |
| adhoc | not finding it | 08:54 |
| gnarface | there might not be a lot in it because it is new | 08:54 |
| adhoc | so looks like quagga has been dropped? | 08:54 |
| gnarface | http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/chimaera-backports/ | 08:54 |
| gnarface | oh hmm | 08:54 |
| gnarface | yea looks like it | 08:54 |
| gnarface | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=quagga.*&x=submit | 08:55 |
| gnarface | missing from chimaera but present again in ceres. it will be back | 08:55 |
| adhoc | dang | 08:55 |
| adhoc | this will make life interesting | 08:55 |
| gnarface | i don't know what it is for but perhaps you could backport it yourself or just run ceres in a chroot | 08:56 |
| adhoc | o_O | 08:56 |
| adhoc | ceres is the next version, like testing? | 08:56 |
| gnarface | ceres is unstable, corresponding to sid | 08:56 |
| adhoc | oh | 08:57 |
| gnarface | it is always unstable and testing is created from it periodically | 08:57 |
| gnarface | then testing gets moved to stable eventually and a new testing is made again where it was | 08:57 |
| gnarface | but unstable is always fixed in place | 08:57 |
| adhoc | so is chimaera testing? | 08:57 |
| adhoc | did I jump to chimaera prematurely? | 08:57 |
| gnarface | well it's been testing but word was it was about to be stable very soon. if you're early it's not by much | 08:57 |
| gnarface | someone else who has actually been using quagga might have better info | 08:58 |
| adhoc | ok, hopefully I don't have to go and rebuild all those machines >.> | 08:58 |
| gnarface | don't worry i doubt that would help in this case | 08:58 |
| * adhoc has not used quagga on devuan, mostly on debian and rhel | 08:58 | |
| adhoc | i am trying to build up some vpn boxes and wanted quagga and wireguard | 08:59 |
| gnarface | it might be one of those things that just isn't in backports yet because of a shortage of volunteer labor | 08:59 |
| adhoc | well, all is a bit experimental at the moment | 08:59 |
| adhoc | ok then, how do i help that progress? | 09:00 |
| gnarface | start by trying to backport it and you'll probably at least know why it didn't make the freeze | 09:00 |
| gnarface | i mean you'll find out whether it is a technical problem or a political one | 09:01 |
| adhoc | ok then, got a link for me to read so I can not pester folks in this channel too much ? | 09:01 |
| gnarface | about backporting? | 09:01 |
| adhoc | yes please | 09:01 |
| gnarface | chapters 6 and 8 of the debian new maintainer's guide | 09:02 |
| gnarface | https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ | 09:02 |
| gnarface | someone has condensed the info for devuan but i forget the link | 09:02 |
| gnarface | backports.debian.org might also be a good place to start since it should be mostly the same process except for repo names | 09:03 |
| gnarface | the debian new maintainer's guide has the important stuff buried under a lot of bullshit | 09:03 |
| gnarface | try not to get daunted, if everything works right you only need like 3 commands | 09:04 |
| gnarface | the dpkg-buildpackage stuff | 09:04 |
| gnarface | most the time you don't even have to mess with quilt and patch manipulation stuff | 09:04 |
| gnarface | and if you do i probably can't help anyway | 09:04 |
| adhoc | heh | 09:05 |
| gnarface | but someone will probably show up around the morning who can help more | 09:05 |
| * adhoc groks the diff'ing thing | 09:05 | |
| adhoc | thanks gnarface | 09:05 |
| gnarface | np, good luck | 09:05 |
| adhoc | ok, maybe the issue is it was in debian/buster(oldstable) but not newer repos ... | 09:23 |
| adhoc | is in sid (unstable) | 09:23 |
| adhoc | hmm | 09:23 |
| gnarface | adhoc: it is in ascii, jessie, and beowulf, too | 10:31 |
| gnarface | just not chimaera, which i guess means it must have missed the freeze for debian | 10:32 |
| gnarface | since it is present in ceres that suggests it's not been removed from the distro, just that release | 10:32 |
| gnarface | which means there is a strong chance for it to show up in chimaera-backports eventually if it is popular enough | 10:33 |
| pumetto | hello | 11:33 |
| pumetto | When will the deveun 4 release be stable? | 11:33 |
| pumetto | ???? | 11:37 |
| gnarface | hello | 11:37 |
| gnarface | i don't think there's an official release date just a request for anyone to help that can | 11:38 |
| gnarface | there's post somewhere about it, maybe the forum? not sure | 11:39 |
| gnarface | should be pretty close i think they're probably just cleaning it up | 11:39 |
| gnarface | o | 11:39 |
| gnarface | *i'm | 11:39 |
| gnarface | ... sure more testers would be welcome | 11:39 |
| djph | have had it running for a while, it's soooo nice | 12:05 |
| djph | my daily driver install actually. | 12:05 |
| gour | hello, how does devuan compare with mxlinux? | 12:17 |
| gnarface | it's probably a lot more like debian than mxlinux | 12:20 |
| gnarface | devuan should still be more like debian wheezy than debian stable, even | 12:21 |
| gnarface | so the core stuff hasn't been replaced | 12:21 |
| gnarface | all the packages are the same except for a few exceptions that couldn't be fixed | 12:22 |
| gour | i put mxlinux on my two machines, installed it on some very old (386) hardware of some friend and inspired another one to use it. however, despite of looking good and having some useful tools - i experienced problems installing debian/devuan/mx on my netbook - grub2&uefi problem, i'm a bit disappointed with the lack of support... | 12:25 |
| gnarface | debian dropped binary support for everything before 686, but it might still be doable if you build a custom kernel | 12:26 |
| gnarface | 8MB of ram won't be enough anymore though | 12:27 |
| gnarface | so it'll have to be a pretty decked-out 386 | 12:27 |
| gour | reported crashes of emacs and have to use "XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 emacs" to launch it, although I never had to use it on my machines with any distro...so i'm considering to switch to devuan (previously i was on debian/sid) | 12:27 |
| gnarface | the installer needs 64MB i think | 12:27 |
| gnarface | though maybe you'd have better luck with debootstrap... | 12:27 |
| gour | well, i've amd64/4GB on my netbook and i7/16G on the desktop, so tha'ts not consideration | 12:28 |
| gnarface | yea, a custom kernel in a debootstrap install done by pulling the harddrive into another machine, that would work for the 386 | 12:28 |
| gnarface | i think | 12:28 |
| gnarface | i can't remember for sure though if you'll have to get an old kernel source too | 12:28 |
| gour | i also notice that memory consumption of mxlinux is quite nice in comparison with debian and xubuntu i tried briefly - probably due to non-systemd | 12:29 |
| gnarface | yea, though gui environment choice at install time will also affect that alot | 12:29 |
| gour | so, mxlinux is also using sysvinit like devuan, but i believe i'd try runit under devuan | 12:29 |
| gour | all DEs were xfce | 12:29 |
| gnarface | you wouldn't be the first but i remember there were a couple struggles | 12:29 |
| gour | with runit? | 12:30 |
| gnarface | yea | 12:30 |
| gnarface | maybe just the typical missing scripts thing though i forget for sure | 12:30 |
| gour | so, for the time being, you would recommend staying with sysvinit? | 12:30 |
| gnarface | for sure it's the one i can help you most with anyway but if you like runit you should also try to hang out and get in touch with the few others who have tried it | 12:30 |
| gnarface | i've told them the same thing | 12:31 |
| gour | i want(ed) to migrate from debian due to systemd and being on sid requires regualar admin overhead, but with most of the stuff based on emacs it's not so important | 12:31 |
| gnarface | it definitely works better when you share information amongst yourselves | 12:31 |
| gnarface | (runit i mean) | 12:32 |
| gnarface | i'm sure you can get either working | 12:32 |
| gnarface | i'm sure runit is lighter | 12:32 |
| gnarface | i'm sure sysvinit isn't as bad as people think | 12:32 |
| gour | what's the future in regard to devuan (until we get s6)? | 12:34 |
| gnarface | what do you mean? it's got s6 too already | 12:36 |
| gnarface | and you wouldn't be the first to try it either but i wouldn't be any more helpful about it | 12:36 |
| gour | s6 is finished? maybe, i was thinking about another, newer alternative... | 12:37 |
| gour | supposed to be real replacement for systemd | 12:37 |
| gnarface | that might be misplaced intent | 12:39 |
| gnarface | older stuff tends to be more reliable | 12:39 |
| gour | gnarface: i was thinking about this: https://skarnet.com/projects/service-manager.html | 12:48 |
| r1cks | sup http://deb.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt can u add https proto at FQDN mirror.koddos.net plz | 18:10 |
| r1cks | you would get my immeasurable gratefulness | 18:12 |
| onefang | Done, though gotta wait the cron job to do it's thing before the web page itself is updated. Sometime within the next hour I think. | 18:23 |
| r1cks | ty | 18:27 |
| user____ | Hi. There used to exist a package called unix2dos, to edit line endings in bulk, also dos2unix, I can't find it in Beowulf. It's probably hiding under another package name. Does anyone know it? | 18:48 |
| gnarface | emacs | 18:49 |
| user____ | I vote for sed but hey. | 18:49 |
| gnarface | dos2unix really not in beowulf? | 18:50 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 18:50 |
| user____ | I can't find it as such, nor unix2dos | 18:50 |
| gnarface | you ran "apt-get update" first, right? | 18:50 |
| gnarface | and your sources.list... ? | 18:50 |
| user____ | Yes, also, aptitude search. | 18:50 |
| gnarface | check on pkginfo.devuan.org | 18:50 |
| user____ | The files are standard, the rest of the system updates as it should. | 18:50 |
| user____ | I'll find it, just asking here if someone seen it. | 18:51 |
| gnarface | i have it here but this is an upgraded system so it could be old | 18:51 |
| user____ | Ahh now it finds it. I upgraded some stuff, maybe it interfered with aptitude for a while. | 18:52 |
| user____ | I wonder what is wrong with this system now and then. It is OLD, but... | 18:54 |
| * user____ looks behind shoulder... | 18:55 | |
| user____ | I searched for dos2 and unix2 before, using aptitude, came up empty. | 18:55 |
| tr-amarsh04 | dos2unix 7.4.1-1 here | 18:58 |
| user____ | Yes, same. Installed, works. Sometimes things aren't right here. It could be the keyboard, I switched languages just before typing into aptitude's search, there may have been a strange punctuation character leading the string, now that I think of it. | 19:06 |
| hyrcanus | hello, i ran out of space building gcc-10. is there a way to tell dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -uc -us to continue a build, not start from the beginning? | 20:37 |
| r1cks | ha ha | 20:43 |
| r1cks | rebuild | 20:43 |
| r1cks | and add -j1 to the make command, to make sure it will be build the slowly, as self-flagellation for your mistake | 20:45 |
| r1cks | and with fixed-point and sanitize | 20:46 |
| James1138 | Hello from Indiana and question about Devuan in general. I am using Beowulf (and loving it) with Evolution as my email client. I hear rumors online that Evolution is being phased out in some versions of Debian - will Evolution still be a available after upgrading from Beowulf to the next version of should I start "shopping" now?? | 20:59 |
| golinux | James1138: https://pkginfo.devuahttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=evolution&x=submitn.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=evolution&x=submit | 21:08 |
| golinux | I think that paste got fubared: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=evolution&x=submit | 21:09 |
| hyrcanus | can you help him interpret that golinux ? | 21:10 |
| hyrcanus | will Evolution still be available from Beowulf to the next version? | 21:10 |
| hyrcanus | i assume next version of 'stable' | 21:11 |
| golinux | Our releases from the beginning are jessie, ascii, beowulf, chimaera and ceres=sid | 21:14 |
| James1138 | Is chimaera the same same Debian bullseye?? | 21:15 |
| James1138 | If so... looks like I am in luck! | 21:15 |
| sadsnork | Hi James1138, it looks like what you need is here: https://www.devuan.org/os/releases | 21:16 |
| James1138 | Many thanx sadsnork! | 21:17 |
| * sadsnork tips his hat :-) | 21:17 | |
| James1138 | New question - related to upgrade... any rough time frame when Chimaera become available as stable ?? | 21:19 |
| James1138 | Call me a "wimp"... but I rather pass on testing or experimental versions. | 21:22 |
| golinux | James1138: When the documentation gets finished. The release is basically ready to go | 21:23 |
| James1138 | Golinux: will the upgrade be a case of "backup data / upgrade / restore data" or something similar to sudo apt-get distro-upgrade?? | 21:26 |
| hagbard | Even simply changing the repos and upgrading the packages as usual did the trick for me. | 21:29 |
| James1138 | Wow Hagbard - that simple?! | 21:31 |
| hagbard | yes. | 21:31 |
| hagbard | But the recommended way is using dist-upgrade, i guess. | 21:31 |
| hagbard | not sure what it would do differently, though | 21:32 |
| hyrcanus | i find my upgrading usually works if i don't allow kde-anything on my system | 21:33 |
| hagbard | Got away with 11 years of debian and not a single dist-upgrade so far, always just changing repos. | 21:33 |
| hyrcanus | i'd have to research what the diff between apt upgrade and apt dist-upgrade is | 21:34 |
| James1138 | Yuck... I found first-hand the KDE has so many hidden dependencies - it is like trying to unravel a vine bush. | 21:34 |
| hagbard | It might help with the unraveling to turn off recommendations as dependencies. | 21:36 |
| tr-amarsh04 | my "old" pc went from Debian installed in June 2004, through swaps of hardware and on to Devuan without a "reinstall" | 21:37 |
| tr-amarsh04 | mainly using aptitude | 21:37 |
| sadoon_albader[m | Wow that's impressive | 21:38 |
| tr-amarsh04 | "new" pc had a re-install early due to corruption from a loose SATA cable but hasn't had a reinstall since 2009 | 21:39 |
| James1138 | (Bowing to Jedi-Master Tr-amarsh04) Please... teach me the ways of the Force!! | 21:40 |
| tr-amarsh04 | probably just spending too much time in aptitude on rolling updates although I did stick with KDE 3.5 way past when it was officially supported | 21:41 |
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