| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | I'm trying to install devuan 4 on a supermicro tower, but it's not wanting to boot no matter what | 00:29 |
|---|---|---|
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | and it takes 3 minutes to post each time i retest something | 00:29 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i've tried putting the usb stick in the on-board usb 3.0 header, i tried enableing legacy bios boot and i've tried enabling legacy vga oprom | 00:30 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | it sees the drive as a boot option but in uefi mode it just blanks the screen that goes back to tianocore | 00:30 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | in legacy mode it just says "Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in seleted boot device and press a key | 00:31 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i used ddrelease64 to image a generic usb stick i use for imaging other servers | 00:31 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | it's a usb3.0 stick | 00:31 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i'm a bit stumped now at how to make this thing boot | 00:31 |
| gnarface | pattern has multiple fits | 00:32 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | uefi shell doesn't even recogize a valid filesystem | 00:32 |
| gnarface | try a 2gb sd card or try booting grub from cdrom then typing in the boot params manually for the microsd | 00:33 |
| gnarface | or try waiting longer | 00:33 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | waiting longer? | 00:33 |
| gnarface | how long did you wait? | 00:33 |
| gnarface | i got this old dell you see | 00:33 |
| gnarface | i got a few actually | 00:33 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i wanted until it said press 11 for boot menu and then smashed the button | 00:33 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | *waited | 00:33 |
| gnarface | but two problems it has is that it needs to have a 2GB or less sized microsd to actually boot from, and if you use grub instead of lilo it takes like a solid several minutes just to load the kernel | 00:34 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | oh? | 00:34 |
| gnarface | this one particular dell has this problem but it has recently come to light that it may affect a wide range of dells | 00:34 |
| gnarface | can't say anything about supermicro but these are the things i can suggest you try | 00:34 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i've got a half-broken grub i can boot to on an ssd here from an old alpinelinux install | 00:34 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | but it just boots into rescue mode | 00:35 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | hmm. let me see if it can see the usb | 00:35 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | sometimes it doesn't | 00:35 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | even see the other drives on the system | 00:35 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | it's not very reliable | 00:35 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | supermicro is terrible. the bios update tool is broken | 00:35 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | I could try trying to load it from the BNC, that's something i haven't tried yet | 00:36 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | *BMC | 00:36 |
| gnarface | i can't help you with the details but i do remember being able to piece together from various examples a grub boot entry i could enter manually at the grub edit prompt that would work for booting the sd card from the cdrom | 00:36 |
| gnarface | well, actually it was a different machine and dvd to usb key iirc, but the same principle should work | 00:36 |
| gnarface | "chainload" might be the thing you're looking for | 00:37 |
| gnarface | i think that it's possible that a lot of machines at the crossover from optical to flash didn't have as good of boot support on the flash ports | 00:38 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | on the flash ports? | 00:38 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | you mean some usb ports work better than others for booting? | 00:39 |
| gnarface | no i mean some machines work better for booting from optical drive than from usb or sd | 00:39 |
| gnarface | but it's just the initial boot, so if you can get to grub from the optical drive you should be able to make it load the sd after that | 00:40 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | if i still had any optical drives and blank disks | 00:40 |
| gnarface | well you said you could get to a grub instance on the harddrive? | 00:40 |
| gnarface | maybe that would work | 00:40 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | thanks | 00:41 |
| gnarface | if it's not too old to be compatible with the newer one | 00:41 |
| gnarface | it's worth a try | 00:41 |
| gnarface | you should in theory be able to give it a boot menu entry for a usb key's grub instance or the install on it | 00:41 |
| gnarface | i did it before, so i know it might work | 00:42 |
| gnarface | just never tried it on a supermicro though | 00:42 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | do yourself a favor and don't buy supermicro in the future | 00:43 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | unless you like troubleshooting bios bugs for 2 days | 00:43 |
| gnarface | basically, when you get to the grub prompt, press a key to stop auto boot, then you should be able to hit another key to edit the boot entries, i think it's "e" | 00:43 |
| gnarface | you can just edit a boot entry on the fly and point it at the usb key | 00:44 |
| gnarface | might get around bios issues | 00:44 |
| gnarface | since the bios is already completely loaded at that point | 00:44 |
| gnarface | or whatever grub has to do to talk to it is done | 00:44 |
| gnarface | i don't actually understand the details | 00:44 |
| gnarface | just the limitations | 00:44 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | thanks | 00:45 |
| gnarface | np, good luck | 00:45 |
| gnarface | and if you have the same problem with the resulting install, try switching to lilo | 00:46 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | is lilo better? | 00:48 |
| mason | simpler | 00:51 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | is syslinux supported? | 00:52 |
| onefang | syslinux is supported. For EFI booting rEFInd works best. | 00:54 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | oh thankyou | 00:55 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | if i can manage to get uefi up and running, can it load linux and a initrd directly? | 00:55 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | like through an efi shell | 00:55 |
| onefang | rEFInd will scan your system at boot time looking for things it can boot, then give you a list. If you prefer you can make your own menu in it's config file. | 00:57 |
| Hydragyrum | you *can* boot linux with an initrd from efistub only | 00:57 |
| Hydragyrum | but really you don't want to | 00:57 |
| gnarface | yea, lilo is simpler on a number of levels and also just plain lighter weight. processing load isn't something you normally consider as a problem for a boot loader these days but every once in a while grub still reminds you it can be. | 00:58 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | wow | 00:58 |
| se7en | I have finished upgrading to Devuan 4, but now on boot I have a lot of apparmor issues it spits out at me | 01:09 |
| se7en | I don't know what file shows these errors on boot. It isn't dmesg | 01:09 |
| se7en | Also, apt wishes to autoremove 432 packages | 01:10 |
| gnarface | you sure you actually finished upgrading? | 01:11 |
| gnarface | double check that the sources.list is correct, and then check if the 432 packages are from the previous release | 01:11 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i started setting up a new devuan 3 system in a zroot manually via the debootstrap method a few days ago | 01:12 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i was almost done, but then devuan 4 was released overnight | 01:12 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | when you said really soon now i didn't realize you want overnight | 01:12 |
| se7en | gnarface: I am pretty sure I finished upgrading | 01:13 |
| se7en | Everything indicates I am on Devuan 4 | 01:13 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | is there any benefit to a fresh install or should i just upgradinging it in place? | 01:13 |
| mason | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: You can boot Linux directly with the stub loader. I keep the kernel and an initramfs in the ESP and do something like: https://bpa.st/NW4A | 01:13 |
| se7en | What is the file where I can see boottime errors | 01:13 |
| gnarface | look in /var/log/, it's gotta be one of them | 01:13 |
| se7en | These are the packages apt wishes to delete | 01:14 |
| se7en | http://ix.io/3BRX | 01:14 |
| mason | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: Newer systems I tend to just use GRUB, but you don't need to. elilo is also a good option for EFI. | 01:14 |
| gnarface | se7en: paste.debian.net please? | 01:14 |
| gnarface | se7en: actually, you can check the versions on pkginfo.devuan.org | 01:14 |
| se7en | Why. Don't trust ix.io? | 01:14 |
| gnarface | no | 01:14 |
| * blockhead blinks - someone mentioned lilo? | 01:15 | |
| mason | elilo | 01:15 |
| Tenkawa | blockhead: yeah and made me feel very very old | 01:15 |
| blockhead | i use lilo | 01:16 |
| mason | ah, here we go: efibootmgr -c -d /dev/sda -L devuan -l '\EFI\devuan\vmlinuz' -u 'boot=zfs root=tank/ROOT/default initrd=\EFI\devuan\initrd.img' | 01:16 |
| se7en | http://paste.debian.net/plain/1215607 | 01:16 |
| Tenkawa | gnarface: is it just me or do those i386 package references look like a bad sources.list change? | 01:16 |
| mason | or two of those if you have two disks | 01:16 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i haven't used lilo since i used slackware | 01:16 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i wonder if it's still capable if you have a lot of oses installed | 01:17 |
| Tenkawa | went from the wrong arch | 01:17 |
| gnarface | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED: usually upgrades are fairly seamless. you shouldn't have to do a fresh install unless you made a mess of the old one. | 01:17 |
| blockhead | i have 4 os's atm: lilo runs fine (and i'm off topic. stopiing now. sorry) | 01:17 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i do wonder about bloat though gnarface, if it would try to install depenencies sloppiliy | 01:17 |
| Tenkawa | se7en: can you also paste your /etc/apt/sources.list? | 01:18 |
| se7en | gnarface: so which log in /var/log is the boot-time log? | 01:18 |
| se7en | Tenkawa: ok | 01:18 |
| Tenkawa | thanks | 01:18 |
| gnarface | se7en: several of the top-level files are gonna get boot-time logs. they were meant to be read by human eyes.... | 01:20 |
| se7en | http://paste.debian.net/plain/1215608 | 01:20 |
| Tenkawa | you are mixing repos that I think might be clashing | 01:21 |
| se7en | Yeah, but I mean the log that init spits out at you at boottime | 01:21 |
| gnarface | se7en: certainly there must be a mistake and this is from your ubuntu machine | 01:21 |
| Tenkawa | thats a lot of repos in there | 01:21 |
| se7en | Because that was where I saw the errors | 01:22 |
| se7en | gnarface: some packages I use are/were out-of-date or not in apt | 01:22 |
| se7en | So I installed the PPA equiv for Ubuntu | 01:22 |
| Tenkawa | no you cant do that | 01:22 |
| gnarface | yea but you can't just do that and not expect a trainwreck | 01:22 |
| gnarface | dependencies in conflict get recursively removed | 01:22 |
| Tenkawa | devuan is non-systemd based | 01:22 |
| Tenkawa | even without the deps.. its going to break | 01:23 |
| Tenkawa | just there | 01:23 |
| se7en | Well, signal only is avalible through that repo | 01:23 |
| se7en | Mumble is in apt but it's an outdated version | 01:23 |
| gnarface | did you look in backports? | 01:23 |
| se7en | And one of those is only torbrowser-launcher, which has failed to work for a long time | 01:23 |
| gnarface | and wait, that's not an old version of mumble... | 01:24 |
| gnarface | that's current stable | 01:24 |
| se7en | It is? | 01:24 |
| se7en | Hmm | 01:24 |
| gnarface | 1.3.4 | 01:24 |
| gnarface | that's what i'm seeing in pkginfo.devuan.org | 01:25 |
| se7en | Well then, that's good | 01:25 |
| se7en | removed the mumble repo, didn't need it | 01:25 |
| gnarface | here's what i would do | 01:25 |
| gnarface | i would clean up all the 3rd party repos | 01:25 |
| gnarface | then i would put ubuntu in a vm | 01:25 |
| Tenkawa | indeed | 01:25 |
| se7en | I don't want to run ubuntu. | 01:25 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | does dist-upgrade work ok with backports? | 01:26 |
| se7en | The only real ubuntu ppas I need are the signal-desktop | 01:26 |
| gnarface | well, that's based on your prior assertion that you needed signal from ubuntu | 01:26 |
| gnarface | i don't know enough about signal to know why it's not in devuan to begin with | 01:26 |
| se7en | That's the instructions from the signal website | 01:26 |
| se7en | https://signal.org/download/# | 01:26 |
| gnarface | really? to install it in devuan? | 01:26 |
| gnarface | with ubuntu dependencies? | 01:27 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | mixing ubuntu and debian repos can make a frankendebian | 01:27 |
| gnarface | doesn't seem very rational. | 01:27 |
| se7en | "Linux (Debian-Based) Install Instructions" | 01:27 |
| se7en | # NOTE: These instructions only work for 64 bit Debian-based | 01:27 |
| gnarface | they're insane if that's what it really says | 01:27 |
| se7en | # Linux distributions such as Ubuntu, Mint etc. | 01:27 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian | 01:27 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | maybe you could use an xmpp client instead | 01:28 |
| se7en | I do | 01:28 |
| se7en | Now, continuing on, these packages that it lists. I do not see the problem being a dependency hell. Rather, I see that these package are probably obsolite. I simply need confirmation before I run a mass autoremove | 01:29 |
| gnarface | did you check the versions? | 01:30 |
| gnarface | i think it's not | 01:30 |
| gnarface | i think it's chimaera packages it's removing | 01:30 |
| gnarface | (because they're in conflict with the ubuntu ones, presumably) | 01:30 |
| se7en | Well, I removed the ubuntu repo | 01:30 |
| gnarface | well i see suse in here, videolan.org, some ones i don't recognize... | 01:31 |
| gnarface | it's not just ubuntu repos that are the problem | 01:31 |
| gnarface | it's this entire methodology | 01:31 |
| se7en | The videolan makes sense, as I prematrurely altered the .list file to be Debian 11, which does not yet exist in the repo | 01:31 |
| gnarface | i'm sorry, i want it to be this easy too but the package dependencies aren't self-aware | 01:31 |
| gnarface | they're basic string and numeral comparisons | 01:32 |
| gnarface | based on human-typed patterns and data | 01:32 |
| se7en | Also, Err:23 http://deb.playonlinux.com bullseye Release | 01:32 |
| se7en | That does not yet exist | 01:32 |
| se7en | So there's a good chance the majority of these packages are wanting to be removed due to invalid repo (at this time) | 01:32 |
| gnarface | well i don't know that it's not a conflict with signal itself | 01:33 |
| gnarface | or one of signal's dependencies (more likely) | 01:33 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | welcome to ppa hell | 01:33 |
| se7en | What is the command to check dependencies? | 01:33 |
| gnarface | i do seem to recall that the issue with signal has come up before | 01:33 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | remember when installing the skype deb would hose the root fs on debian? | 01:33 |
| gnarface | se7en: try "apt-cache depends [package]" | 01:35 |
| gnarface | se7en: or you can do "apt-cache rdepends [package]" to see what it depends on | 01:35 |
| se7en | signal-desktop | 01:35 |
| se7en | Depends: libnotify4 | 01:35 |
| gnarface | or aptitude why [package] | 01:35 |
| se7en | Depends: libxtst6 | 01:35 |
| se7en | Depends: libnss3 | 01:35 |
| se7en | Depends: libasound2 | 01:35 |
| se7en | liboss4-salsa-asound2 | 01:35 |
| se7en | Depends: libxss1 | 01:35 |
| gnarface | you probably shouldn't paste more than 3 lines at once in here | 01:36 |
| gnarface | that'll probably get you flagged for flooding | 01:36 |
| gnarface | but i also don't need to see this | 01:36 |
| gnarface | this output is for your benefit | 01:36 |
| gnarface | if you can find all the dependencies in devuan, install them first, then download-only the signal-desktop package and try to install it with dpkg -i | 01:37 |
| gnarface | that's the best i can do for you | 01:37 |
| se7en | Alright, but moving on | 01:37 |
| gnarface | if it doesn't work you're looking at rebuilding the package | 01:37 |
| se7en | I still can't find the boot-time log | 01:37 |
| gnarface | what actual messages are you looking for? | 01:38 |
| se7en | So I can't read the apparmor issues | 01:38 |
| se7en | It spit out apparmor issues at boottime | 01:38 |
| se7en | I believe they were all warn-level | 01:38 |
| gnarface | should be in the output of dmesg | 01:38 |
| gnarface | or /var/log/dmesg* | 01:38 |
| gnarface | afaik anyway | 01:39 |
| gnarface | but check the other usual suspects like syslog, kern.log, daemon.log, etc... | 01:39 |
| se7en | When I do cat /var/log/dmesg* | grep appar | 01:39 |
| gnarface | mabye even messages | 01:39 |
| se7en | All I see is STATUS messages | 01:39 |
| se7en | Oh, here's the errors | 01:40 |
| se7en | One such error | 01:40 |
| se7en | [ 27.074387] audit: type=1400 audit(1634338655.696:36): apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_replace" info="profile can not be replaced" error=-17 profile="unconfined" name="system_i2p" pid=2197 comm="apparmor_parser" | 01:40 |
| se7en | [ 27.089380] audit: type=1400 audit(1634338655.708:39): apparmor="STATUS" operation="profile_replace" info="profile can not be replaced" error=-17 profile="unconfined" name="system_tor" pid=2213 comm="apparmor_parser" | 01:40 |
| se7en | About 5 of those, which match what I saw at boottime | 01:40 |
| gnarface | i just have to assume your apparmor directory has a munge of conflicting patched up files from several different distros now and it's dying of cancer | 01:40 |
| se7en | I replaced the apparmor conf files during the full-upgrade | 01:41 |
| se7en | It promoted | 01:41 |
| se7en | s/promoted/prompted/g | 01:41 |
| gnarface | hmm, nonetheless, i haven't seen this problem anywhere i've followed the rules | 01:41 |
| gnarface | are these blocking package installs or what? | 01:41 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | cancer | 01:42 |
| se7en | Recall if you will, gnarface, that originally this laptop was fucked to begin with when I, having very few resources for install, foolhartedly installed Devuan then copied /bin, /usr, and /home over from the previous laptop's HDD | 01:42 |
| se7en | I can't rememer if I did that before or after upgrading from Jessie | 01:42 |
| gnarface | i did not recall that | 01:42 |
| gnarface | but i would have advised only copying /home | 01:43 |
| se7en | You assisted me with permission errors quite a while ago, which arose from that | 01:43 |
| se7en | Not instantly, of course | 01:43 |
| se7en | It was 20198 | 01:43 |
| gnarface | i must have been drunk | 01:43 |
| se7en | 2018 | 01:43 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | se7en, bin and usr sure, but copying over home wouldn't cause an issue would it? | 01:43 |
| se7en | No, I don't think so, but it is something I also copied over | 01:43 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | there's a way to fix that | 01:43 |
| gnarface | so the thing is i still think the best way to back out of this is to remove all the non-devuan packages first | 01:43 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | install debsums | 01:43 |
| se7en | Already installed, says apt | 01:44 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | and then tell debsums to audit your system. it will tell you if there's any files with sums that don't match the package database you can reinstall | 01:44 |
| se7en | What's the command | 01:44 |
| gnarface | hmm, not a bad idea | 01:44 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | debsumss -h | 01:44 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | debsums -h | 01:44 |
| gnarface | i think there was a tool called cruft that might help as well.. | 01:44 |
| se7en | is debsums -a too intense? | 01:44 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i used that to recover a raspberry pi from a corrupted sdcard | 01:44 |
| se7en | debsums -as | 01:45 |
| se7en | running, no errors reported thus far. I expect this to take a long time | 01:45 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | it doesn't | 01:45 |
| se7en | ooh | 01:45 |
| gnarface | is debsums gonna flag a properly-installed package from another distro though? | 01:45 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | you want debsums -s | 01:45 |
| se7en | Spitting out errors | 01:45 |
| gnarface | it won't, will it? | 01:45 |
| gnarface | i guess i don't know | 01:45 |
| se7en | Redirecting output to debsums.log | 01:46 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | run it in silent mode otherwise it will spam your console wit OKs | 01:46 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | it uses a fast hash, as long as your on a relatively recent machine | 01:46 |
| se7en | it's mostly man pages in other languages | 01:46 |
| se7en | Which bleachbit is programmed to remove | 01:46 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | it's just md5sum if i recall | 01:46 |
| se7en | Example: | 01:46 |
| se7en | debsums: missing file /usr/share/man/es/man5/adduser.conf.5.gz (from adduser package) | 01:46 |
| se7en | If that's all it finds, there's no issue | 01:47 |
| se7en | It's still running | 01:47 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | *chuggin along* | 01:47 |
| se7en | I also notice this upgrade finally fixed the strange and seemingly unfixable permission errors that were occuring in /dev/snd/* | 01:48 |
| se7en | I now have sound on boot without having to do `chown -R root:audio /dev/snd` every time | 01:49 |
| se7en | That broke my system a while back too, trying to fix it | 01:49 |
| se7en | It resulted from misunderstanding the output recommendations of the Lynis secuirty auditing program | 01:49 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i noticed in that list you sent a while back it was pulling in oss libraries | 01:49 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | oss isn't really used on linux anymore since the 90s | 01:50 |
| se7en | Yes, becaue I had attempted to fix the problem by installing non-alsa libraries and programs | 01:50 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | if you need oss support use aoss. | 01:50 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | i needed it for some old ham radio tools | 01:50 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | it intercepts syscalls and translates them to alsa | 01:50 |
| se7en | Ham Radio software is its own niche alright | 01:50 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | not really sure what you mean | 01:51 |
| se7en | Like Android Pajeetism, so many good ham radio software programs haven't been updated since 2003 | 01:51 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | oh | 01:51 |
| se7en | It's just niche and hack | 01:51 |
| se7en | Like XDA-Forums | 01:51 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | idk, but i know what your talking about | 01:51 |
| se7en | Idk if you undestand | 01:51 |
| se7en | this is still running | 01:51 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | it's like a whole bunch of talented developers fell off the face of the earth in 2013 | 01:51 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | sometime late 2000s | 01:52 |
| se7en | Well, that is the time that the New Aeon began | 01:52 |
| se7en | Terry Davis and the Mayans warned us about it | 01:52 |
| se7en | Lets All Love Lain | 01:52 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | gtg | 01:53 |
| se7en | I'll have this log output as soon as it's done | 01:53 |
| se7en | How much longer do you believe it will take? | 01:54 |
| gnarface | i couldn't guess | 01:54 |
| se7en | There are other things in its output besides the man and LC_MESSAGES in other languages, but it's mostly just conf files one would expect to be different due to regular use | 01:55 |
| se7en | Such as /etc/proxychains.conf | 01:55 |
| se7en | A large number of missing files exist however | 01:56 |
| se7en | dnscrypt-proxy hasn't worked right in years due to them changing the flags | 01:56 |
| se7en | Never bothered to fix it | 01:56 |
| se7en | it has finished, gnarface | 01:57 |
| gnarface | i doubt it will tell me anything it doesn't tell you | 01:57 |
| se7en | Oh, that's interesting | 01:57 |
| se7en | The file-picker for surf says /home/se7en is permission denied | 01:57 |
| gnarface | uids might not match if it was copied from another system | 01:58 |
| se7en | http://paste.debian.net/plain/1215613 | 01:58 |
| se7en | That's old, gnarface | 01:58 |
| se7en | I said I did that in 2018 | 01:58 |
| se7en | drwxr-xr-x 78 se7en se7en 148K Oct 15 16:55 se7en | 01:59 |
| se7en | I'm not sure what filepicker it is using | 02:00 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure why you're missing all these files but i see two apparmor ones in there | 02:00 |
| se7en | The error is with the filepicker, it also can't access / | 02:01 |
| gnarface | i mean there is clear evidence there's a lot more wrong than that if you're missing all these files | 02:01 |
| se7en | As I said, the majority are man pages and messages in other languages | 02:01 |
| gnarface | yea but you shouldn't be missing this many | 02:01 |
| se7en | Which bleachbit routinely removes | 02:01 |
| gnarface | oh | 02:01 |
| se7en | They are installed because I have downloaded all locales for compatibility | 02:01 |
| gnarface | i guess i don't know what bleachbit does but it doesn't sound like what it is doing is dependency-aware... | 02:01 |
| Tenkawa | indeed | 02:02 |
| se7en | bleachbit is the FLOSS version of cccleaner | 02:02 |
| se7en | Which Hillary Clinton famously used to delete her emails | 02:02 |
| gnarface | i still am not convinced even that is the problem though, i think there's a deeper mess in here to do with some 3rd party packages still installed | 02:02 |
| se7en | Which the creator of Bleachbit then took as an opertunity to sell a novelty product called "A cloth or something" branded with bleachbit | 02:02 |
| Tenkawa | se7en: if its not hierarchical aware of installed files its very dangerous to use | 02:02 |
| se7en | https://www.bleachbit.org/ | 02:03 |
| se7en | I use that as part of my cleaning script | 02:03 |
| se7en | clean is aliased to `bleachbit -c -o --preset; wipe -rf /home/se7en/.weechat/logs; wipe -rf /home/se7en/.config/.w3m/*; wipe -rf /home/se7en/.config/tox/chatlogs/*; rm -rf /home/se7en/.surf/*' | 02:03 |
| Tenkawa | anything that's trying to bypass control of dpkg's installed catalog of files is "a bad thing" | 02:04 |
| gnarface | well, stuff in ~/ is probably not suspect | 02:05 |
| se7en | It's just removing man pages and LC_MESSAGES files which are in languages other than the default locale | 02:05 |
| Tenkawa | se7en: do you have everything in a single filesystem (/) ? | 02:08 |
| se7en | Yes, on a multi-part drive | 02:08 |
| Tenkawa | but you don't have it multi fs'ed ie /usr /var / /etc and such right? | 02:09 |
| se7en | This is my system | 02:10 |
| se7en | http://paste.debian.net/plain/1215615 | 02:10 |
| Tenkawa | that's interesting... does your /var/log/dpkg.log show anything about anything in that pkglist if you run | 02:12 |
| Tenkawa | grep xdg-user-dirs /var/log/dpkg.log | 02:13 |
| se7en | No output | 02:13 |
| Tenkawa | like that for example | 02:13 |
| Tenkawa | hmm | 02:13 |
| Tenkawa | now thats even more odd | 02:13 |
| se7en | I do not use gnome | 02:13 |
| se7en | I try to avoid free-desktop | 02:14 |
| Tenkawa | according to that audit you ran you do | 02:14 |
| se7en | Unfortunately, many programs are dependent on gnome libraries | 02:14 |
| se7en | So I try to strip it down to the bare nessesity | 02:14 |
| Tenkawa | debsums: missing file /usr/share/locale/pa/LC_MESSAGES/xdg-user-dirs.mo (from xdg-user-dirs package) | 02:14 |
| Tenkawa | that was missing it says | 02:14 |
| Tenkawa | so it should be in dpkg.log somewhere | 02:15 |
| se7en | LC_MESSAGES means the program in a different language | 02:15 |
| se7en | it does appear to be installed | 02:15 |
| se7en | xdg-user-dir xdg-user-dirs-update | 02:15 |
| Tenkawa | no | 02:15 |
| se7en | xdg-user-dirs-update | 02:15 |
| se7en | No default user directories | 02:15 |
| Tenkawa | grep mean read string | 02:15 |
| se7en | `grep xdg-user-dirs /var/log/dpkg.log` produces no output | 02:15 |
| Tenkawa | er means | 02:15 |
| se7en | `cat /var/log/dpkg.log | grep xdg-user-dirs | 02:17 |
| se7en | Also produces no output | 02:17 |
| se7en | `grep mean /var/log/dpkg.log` produces no output | 02:17 |
| se7en | `grep read /var/log/dpkg.log` produces output | 02:18 |
| se7en | `grep string /var/log/dpkg.log` produces output | 02:18 |
| se7en | Tenkawa: | 02:20 |
| Tenkawa | you aren't looking at the file (and its backup) right if you don't see it there and you saw it on that paste you showed us | 02:23 |
| Tenkawa | grep xdg-user-dirs dpkg.log* | wc -l | 02:23 |
| Tenkawa | 7 | 02:23 |
| Tenkawa | mine has 7 lines of entries of where it staged and installed it for example | 02:23 |
| se7en | grep xdg-user-dirs /var/log/dpkg.log* | wc -l | 02:24 |
| se7en | 0 | 02:24 |
| gnarface | zgrep | 02:24 |
| se7en | 0 | 02:24 |
| gnarface | has to be zgrep or the * part won't matter | 02:24 |
| gnarface | assuming your log files are compressed | 02:25 |
| gnarface | which would be the default... | 02:25 |
| se7en | Still 0 | 02:25 |
| Tenkawa | se7en: thats even more problematic if the audit listed those packages yet they aren't there | 02:25 |
| Tenkawa | and that one specificly was | 02:25 |
| Tenkawa | debsums: missing file /usr/share/locale/pa/LC_MESSAGES/xdg-user-dirs.mo (from xdg-user-dirs package) | 02:25 |
| Tenkawa | from xdg-user-dirs package | 02:26 |
| se7en | apt says xdg-user-dirs is installed | 02:26 |
| se7en | Do I really need it anyway? | 02:26 |
| gnarface | is it the apt from ubuntu or devuan though? | 02:26 |
| se7en | I'm on devuan, it's devaun | 02:27 |
| Tenkawa | gnarface: indeed... thats the q | 02:27 |
| se7en | I'm running apt --reinstall xdg-user-dirs | 02:27 |
| se7en | Now xdg-user-dirs outputs in /var/log/dpkg.log* | 02:27 |
| se7en | 9 lines | 02:28 |
| se7en | There's no real issue there | 02:28 |
| se7en | So as it is, we've identified only a few main problems here on this system | 02:30 |
| gnarface | there's definitely multiple issues but i don't know that one of them is not just missing logs | 02:30 |
| se7en | The first being boot-time spits out apparmor issues | 02:30 |
| gnarface | did you try reinstalling that? | 02:30 |
| se7en | The second being that GTKFilePicker has permission errors, which now seems to be isolated to an issue with surf (still unsure) | 02:31 |
| se7en | I will try to reinstall apparmor | 02:31 |
| gnarface | i think other packages might alter that directory too, i am not sure | 02:31 |
| se7en | AppArmor parser error for /etc/apparmor.d in /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.ntpd at line 15: Could not open 'tunables/ntpd' | 02:31 |
| se7en | AppArmor parser error for /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.ntpd in /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.ntpd at line 15: Could not open 'tunables/ntpd' | 02:31 |
| gnarface | if one of the ones from outside the distro altered it, that could have caused problems | 02:31 |
| se7en | Error: At least one profile failed to load | 02:31 |
| se7en | I do not believe that to be the case | 02:32 |
| se7en | apt install --reinstall apparmor-profiles apparmor-profiles-extra | 02:32 |
| se7en | It lists these as "new" packages | 02:32 |
| se7en | Installed without error | 02:33 |
| se7en | This is output from surf when I attempt to download a file | 02:33 |
| se7en | surf: execvp x-terminal-emulator failed: Permission denied | 02:33 |
| se7en | And on fileupload | 02:34 |
| se7en | (With gtkfilepicker) | 02:34 |
| se7en | Cannot spawn a message bus without a machine-id: Unable to load /var/lib/dbus/machine-id or /etc/machine-id: Failed to open file “/var/lib/dbus/machine-id”: Permission denied | 02:34 |
| se7en | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 33 Oct 15 16:08 /var/lib/dbus/machine-id | 02:35 |
| gnarface | dunno | 02:37 |
| * se7en sigh | 02:39 | |
| se7en | It's never seemless | 02:39 |
| se7en | These seem to be minor issues though | 02:39 |
| se7en | The system still boots, I can still use it | 02:40 |
| se7en | surf just doesn't download/upload, apparmor spits out errors, and my new linux-libre kernel freezes (which isn't a devuan problem) | 02:40 |
| se7en | If any more issues arise, I'll let you know, but do consider how to fix these ones please | 02:40 |
| gnarface | i have to assume some more packages involved are from the wrong repos | 02:40 |
| gnarface | dbus or surf maybe | 02:41 |
| se7en | Oh, now I have problems with mutt | 02:41 |
| se7en | /var/tmp/mutt-lappy-1000-20598-3895580228296453503: Permission denied (errno = 1 | 02:41 |
| se7en | So I have permission errors in /var now | 02:41 |
| se7en | drwxr-xr-t 2 root root 4.0K Oct 15 16:35 tmp | 02:42 |
| se7en | It's empty | 02:42 |
| gnarface | the apparmor errors for ntpd... | 02:42 |
| gnarface | those are probably from the ntpd package | 02:42 |
| gnarface | reinstall that see if they go away | 02:43 |
| gnarface | reinstall any packages that are missing from apparmor | 02:43 |
| gnarface | are missing files in /etc/apparmor.d/ i mean | 02:43 |
| gnarface | are missing files in /etc/apparmor.d/ i mean | 02:43 |
| gnarface | sorry : dpkg -S /etc/apparmor.d/ | 02:43 |
| gnarface | run this^ | 02:43 |
| gnarface | make sure you're installing the devuan chimaera one by commenting out ALL other repos | 02:44 |
| se7en | One moment please | 02:44 |
| gnarface | (don't forget to run apt-get update first) | 02:44 |
| se7en | The output of your dpkg command is | 02:44 |
| se7en | apparmor-profiles-extra, apparmor-profiles, ioquake3, ioquake3-server, haveged, cups-browsed, cups-daemon, i2p, libreoffice-common, man-db, unbound, tor, surf, msmtp, clamav-freshclam, redshift, ntp, firejail, apparmor: /etc/apparmor.d | 02:44 |
| gnarface | i don't need to see them | 02:44 |
| gnarface | but all those packages are supposed to ahve files in there | 02:45 |
| gnarface | so if they're missing, that's a problem | 02:45 |
| gnarface | if any of these package names show up in those apparmor errors, they should be obvious candidates for reinstallation | 02:45 |
| gnarface | maybe that's got something to do with other problems if it's not just ntpd | 02:46 |
| se7en | Fixed the /tmp, /var/tmp issue | 02:46 |
| se7en | chmod 1777 /tmp | 02:46 |
| se7en | Restarting DNS server: unbound[1634345222] unbound[22431:0] warning: so-rcvbuf 4194304 was not granted. Got 425984. To fix: start with root permissions(linux) or sysctl bigger net.core.rmem_max(linux) or kern.ipc.maxsockbuf(bsd) values. | 02:47 |
| se7en | [1634345222] unbound[22431:0] warning: so-sndbuf 4194304 was not granted. Got 425984. To fix: start with root permissions(linux) or sysctl bigger net.core.wmem_max(linux) or kern.ipc.maxsockbuf(bsd) values. | 02:47 |
| gnarface | i dunno unbound, but the values it's asking you to change can be set in /etc/sysctl.conf or /etc/sysctl.d/* | 02:48 |
| gnarface | seems like that might be bad behavior for a dns server, but i dunno really | 02:48 |
| se7en | The only reason I have unbound installed was due to my previous (long-time broken) DNSCrypt install | 02:49 |
| se7en | I think it's perhaps best to remove unbound | 02:49 |
| se7en | I have removed it | 02:50 |
| * onefang skips reading the almost 400 messages since I left to go shopping two hours ago. | 02:50 | |
| onefang | Anything important I should read? | 02:50 |
| se7en | Not unless you want to diagnose my Frankendevuan Install, onefang | 02:51 |
| onefang | Typically stuff about the package mirrors I should read, since that's what I look after. | 02:51 |
| onefang | Ah yes, Frankendevuans need all the help they can get. | 02:52 |
| onefang | gnarface is always very helpful, I'll leave you in those good hands. | 02:53 |
| gnarface | i can't do anything for him, i told him to uninstall all the 3rd party packages and he won't | 02:53 |
| hyrcanus | user modifications are not covered under manufacturer warranty | 02:53 |
| gnarface | he's trying to run signal-desktop??? | 02:53 |
| gnarface | from ubuntu!? | 02:53 |
| * onefang goes back to trying to figure out what the fuck is wrong with my network. Everything is working, except for emails between my desktop and my server. | 02:53 | |
| se7en | I already commented-out the third-party ubuntu repos hours ago, and ran apt update | 02:54 |
| djph | onefang: any logs serverside? just had to fight with a new MTA a few days ago :) | 02:54 |
| onefang | "Network is unreachable" says my destkop email server. Everything else on my desktop can reach that server. | 02:54 |
| djph | o_O | 02:54 |
| gnarface | se7en: i'm not sure that's enough, i think you might have to actually audit the output of "dpkg -l" for unwanted packages | 02:55 |
| onefang | II'v had tail -f running on both ends since | 02:55 |
| onefang | II'v had tail -f running on both ends since I went shopping. | 02:55 |
| gnarface | se7en: and i said, the other repos are suspect too | 02:55 |
| Tenkawa | onefang: can a direct port hit with telnet/nmap even get there? | 02:56 |
| onefang | That's next on my list of things to try. I had to go out before, so had to just leave it while I was out. | 02:57 |
| gnarface | se7en: the problem is, due to conflicting versioning conventions, certain version strings (especially the ones with letters in them like "ubuntu") can actually be detected as newer when they're actually older | 02:57 |
| Tenkawa | ah. yeah I've had to test it by hand more times than I want to count | 02:57 |
| se7en | That may be true, but that would only account for a few packages | 02:58 |
| gnarface | se7en: yea, but if you have the wrong version of something, and it's only almost behaving correctly, and it's an internal core system component like this, it can have a chain reaction | 02:58 |
| se7en | Found the problem with surf | 02:59 |
| se7en | https://bugs.debian.org/919537 | 02:59 |
| se7en | Except the solution file provided is blank | 03:00 |
| se7en | but does exist | 03:00 |
| se7en | Perhaps I should just uninstall apparmor | 03:01 |
| UsL | se7en: what's in the box?! | 03:02 |
| se7en | ha | 03:02 |
| se7en | gnarface: I don't think I really used apparmor before. In fact, I'm almost certain I uninstalled it | 03:02 |
| se7en | What are the pros and cons of uninstalling apparmor | 03:02 |
| gnarface | apt-cache rdepends apparmor | 03:04 |
| se7en | A long list prints out | 03:04 |
| gnarface | so the cons are all those things go with it | 03:04 |
| se7en | Including linux-images | 03:04 |
| se7en | Why does the linux kernel, libre-office, surf, i2p, clamav, and ioquake3 all require apparmor to function? | 03:07 |
| se7en | There are packages I don't recognize here too, such as mosquitto, octavia-agent, pollen | 03:07 |
| se7en | Which aren't installed | 03:07 |
| se7en | This seems to be an apparmor issue now, not a devuan issue | 03:08 |
| se7en | And the conf files for apparmor in /etc are all blank | 03:08 |
| gnarface | well i've been saying from the beginning that it seems like that part of the install definitely got corrupted | 03:10 |
| gnarface | because you certainly aren't supposed to be getting this much noise from it | 03:10 |
| gnarface | but i know it's high-traffic enough that just mixing a few packages from the wrong release in will cause havoc | 03:11 |
| gnarface | that might not be all that happened here, maybe some package install got choked half-way through and left some post-installation jobs undone something? | 03:12 |
| gnarface | or something* | 03:12 |
| se7en | This all seems to go back to apparmor | 03:12 |
| se7en | I've already removed the third-party repos | 03:13 |
| gnarface | you gotta figure out what, but while you're at it make sure you don't have non-devuan packages doing critical parts of the task | 03:13 |
| se7en | I've said that repeatedly | 03:13 |
| gnarface | and i've said repeatedly that just removing the repos from your sources.list won't magically make any packages that snunk in from them disappear | 03:13 |
| gnarface | snuck not snunk | 03:13 |
| se7en | Then what do you recommend I do | 03:13 |
| gnarface | check the output of dpkg -l | 03:14 |
| gnarface | look at the version of every package on there | 03:14 |
| gnarface | compare it to pkginfo.devuan.org | 03:14 |
| * onefang teaches my desktop email server to use my ssh tunnel to send email instead. | 03:14 | |
| gnarface | make sure it's the right version and not something weird | 03:14 |
| se7en | That would take hours of manual work | 03:15 |
| Tenkawa | onefang: effective | 03:15 |
| Tenkawa | very nice | 03:15 |
| se7en | Isn't there a file I could just diff | 03:15 |
| se7en | I have 3499 installed packages | 03:17 |
| gnarface | write a script | 03:17 |
| se7en | bleh | 03:18 |
| gnarface | someone has probably written this script already | 03:18 |
| se7en | What does ii mean | 03:19 |
| se7en | vs rc | 03:19 |
| josh864 | would migrating from debian bullseye to devuan following the website instructions mess with UEFI secure boot? | 03:19 |
| se7en | In the dpkg -l output | 03:19 |
| gnarface | i think ii means it's properly installed and rc means it has been removed but vestigial config files remain | 03:19 |
| mason | josh864: I haven't actually tried SecureBoot with Chimaera. It's worth trying it on a standalone system probably before migrating something where you really want SecureBoot. | 03:20 |
| gnarface | when you remove a package, if you remove it with "apt-get --purge remove [package]" it should also remove the configs, then it will also disappear from the output of "dpkg -l" completely | 03:21 |
| josh864 | mmmmmmm i see | 03:22 |
| mason | josh864: I will give it a try soon, but soon might end up not being before Sunday. | 03:22 |
| josh864 | thank you | 03:23 |
| josh864 | i've really wanted to install devuan but i can't boot the installer due to secure boot, which i can't disable as i forgot my BIOS password | 03:23 |
| josh864 | so this might be actually the only way i can go | 03:23 |
| gnarface | se7en: somewhat ironically, you may have to reinstall those first to make them really disappear | 03:25 |
| Tenkawa | gnarface: you can actually even after the pkg is removed go in again and do a apt-get --purge remove pkg to get rid of the config files | 03:26 |
| Tenkawa | its quite odd | 03:26 |
| gnarface | really? i thought that specifically didn't work... | 03:26 |
| Tenkawa | as long as its in the rc state | 03:26 |
| gnarface | maybe just with some packages that are misbehaved | 03:26 |
| mason | josh864: It'd be worth figuring out how to reset that. | 03:26 |
| josh864 | yeah | 03:27 |
| josh864 | i've read taking out the battery & waiting a fair bit might work | 03:27 |
| mason | josh864: Finding a motherboard manual would be a start, then see if a factory reset will work. | 03:28 |
| mason | Usually you can pull the battery and short a pair of pins without having to wait. The pins ought to be documented in your mobo manual. | 03:28 |
| josh864 | lemme see if i can find one for my hardware | 03:29 |
| Tenkawa | rc zram-tools 0.3.3.1-1 all utilities for working with zram | 03:31 |
| Tenkawa | The following packages will be REMOVED: | 03:31 |
| Tenkawa | zram-tools* | 03:31 |
| Tenkawa | yeah if you just --purge it | 03:31 |
| Tenkawa | very handy... I had to use it with autoremove on occasion | 03:32 |
| Tenkawa | to get rid of old mess | 03:32 |
| hyrcanus | does 'FrontOnLake' rootkit threaten Devuan installations? https://thehackernews.com/2021/10/researchers-warn-of-fontonlake-rootkit.html#comment-box | 05:24 |
| onefang | Looks like my email issue was something odd in either my homes ISP or the home router. It's shared WiFi with six other rooms, I don't have admin access to the router. | 06:53 |
| onefang | Port 25 was blocked somewhere between them, but only to ONE of my email servers. shrugs | 06:54 |
| onefang | Now I just tunnel it. | 06:54 |
| djph | onefang: weird | 13:24 |
| debdog | I don't want my laptop to do anything when its lid is closed or opened. so I disabled the execution of the /etc/acpi/lid.sh script in /etc/acpi/events/lidbtn. | 14:01 |
| debdog | this worked well until I've upgraded to chimaera. my alternation is still intact but the laptop kind of freezes when I close the lid. | 14:01 |
| debdog | after opening the lid again the screen is blank and even ssh-ing into it doesn't work. | 14:01 |
| debdog | now I have no clue what to look for since I thought /etc/acpi/events/lidbtn is fairly low level. | 14:02 |
| debdog | any hint appreciated! | 14:03 |
| debdog | hmm, syslog says "acpid: skipping incomplete file /etc/acpi/events/lidbtn" | 14:06 |
| hyrcanus | serious problem there | 14:11 |
| hyrcanus | i want no-lid suspend | 14:13 |
| debdog | how does it determine that the script is incomplete? I hate it when an apparatus thinks its smarter than me | 14:15 |
| djph | debdog: maybe a missing close tag or something? | 14:15 |
| debdog | it is a very simple script | 14:16 |
| debdog | event=button[ /]lid | 14:16 |
| debdog | #action=/etc/acpi/lid.sh | 14:16 |
| debdog | the #-thingy is my alternation, of course | 14:16 |
| debdog | I'll just point action to a script that does nothing... | 14:17 |
| debdog | oh, it is not a script, it is a config file | 14:17 |
| debdog | sorry for that | 14:18 |
| debdog | ok, empty script worked. thanks for listening! | 14:26 |
| debdog | well, not empty.... exit 0 | 14:26 |
| buZz | :) | 15:05 |
| Guest5543 | hi, does anyone know why surf-like browsers doesn't work or are extremely slow? | 15:08 |
| Guest5543 | i can'tfix any setup | 15:08 |
| Guest5543 | find | 15:08 |
| Guest5543 | i can't use chrome, surf and midori on debuan and devuan | 15:09 |
| cheeringsnork | Guest5543, Is there any error message or are they just slow? Have you tried other browsers? And it might help to know which Devuan release/derivative and desktop environment you are using. | 15:38 |
| Guest5543 | chromium, vivaldi, opera, midori, surf - high CPU usage, slow like Penium 60Mhz | 15:40 |
| Guest5543 | firefox, netsurf, links, etc - works fine | 15:40 |
| hyrcanus | speed varies by website | 15:46 |
| Guest5543 | empty run fails too | 15:47 |
| hyrcanus | fast browser is dillo | 15:47 |
| Guest5543 | WebKitWebProces acts wrong | 15:47 |
| Guest5543 | very high cpu usage | 15:47 |
| hyrcanus | webkit is from apple right | 15:47 |
| Guest5543 | resizing window, scrolling, etc | 15:48 |
| hyrcanus | under xfce Guest5543 ? | 15:48 |
| Guest5543 | no, i3 | 15:48 |
| cheeringsnork | My guess would be that there is no way all of those browsers use the same plugins/extensions/addons/whatever, so it would seem rather global. Possibly video related? And did they ever work? Is this a fresh install or a recent upgrade? | 15:50 |
| cheeringsnork | Of course it makes sense to try the browsers with no extensions anyways since that should be quick and easy to try. | 15:51 |
| Guest5543 | fresh install | 15:51 |
| Guest5543 | it may be hardware/software acceleration issue | 15:52 |
| cheeringsnork | Is that Chimaera? | 15:52 |
| Guest5543 | yeap | 15:52 |
| Guest5543 | devuan and debian | 15:53 |
| Guest5543 | previous versions too | 15:53 |
| Guest5543 | now i use only devuan but remember that issue from debian year ago | 15:53 |
| cheeringsnork | Hmm, meaning that buster, bullseeye, beowulf, and chimaera all have this problem? | 15:53 |
| Guest5543 | on all machines | 15:53 |
| Guest5543 | cant say it | 15:54 |
| Guest5543 | don't remember debian name | 15:54 |
| Guest5543 | devuan previously stable and current stable have | 15:55 |
| Tenkawa | Guest5543: to have people help you , you need to be able to provide useable data and information (ie versions, os names, ) | 15:56 |
| Tenkawa | without this guessing is not going to help | 15:56 |
| Guest5543 | chimera and one version back | 15:56 |
| Guest5543 | i can't remember codenames | 15:57 |
| Guest5543 | i installed chimera when chimera was notstable release | 15:57 |
| Tenkawa | Guest5543: my point is.. when this happens in the future... write/record it somehow | 15:57 |
| Guest5543 | and i installed stablerelease on other machine | 15:57 |
| Guest5543 | it is happening now :) | 15:58 |
| cheeringsnork | I don't use those browsers but I do have a laptop here I am using to fiddle with Chimaera so I installed Midori from the repos and it seems to work fine, including video. | 15:58 |
| cheeringsnork | Though I imagine if there was a problem affecting all those browsers in Chimaera/Devuan we probably would have heard about it by now. | 15:58 |
| Guest5543 | pplwrite about it in the network | 15:59 |
| cheeringsnork | Have you tried disabling acceleration? | 15:59 |
| Tenkawa | yes but you can't give us a reference point that "was" working.. documentation would've helped possibly isolate a point in the upgrade/install what might have made it go wrong | 15:59 |
| Guest5543 | i am trying to find out how | 15:59 |
| Tenkawa | cheeringsnork: I have a feeling he has it disabled right now | 15:59 |
| Tenkawa | and thats part of the problem | 16:00 |
| Tenkawa | x is running without any mesa/opengl at all | 16:00 |
| Guest5543 | possible, i use 10+ yo machines here | 16:00 |
| cheeringsnork | I am trying to remember Chrome... can you just go to settings and ios there a search box you can type "accel" in to? | 16:00 |
| Tenkawa | cheeringsnork: and yeah chrome is very touchy as we know | 16:00 |
| Guest5543 | well,actually i can't - don't have chrome right now but i will check | 16:01 |
| Guest5543 | nightmare | 16:12 |
| Guest5543 | i disabled acceleration on chromium | 16:12 |
| Guest5543 | it freezes the same as before | 16:13 |
| Guest5543 | surf - is slow but loads websites, chromium hungs | 16:13 |
| Guest5543 | oh wait it is working | 16:15 |
| Guest5543 | after restart acceleration settings works | 16:16 |
| Guest5543 | cheeringsnork thanks ;) | 16:18 |
| hyrcanus | needing a gpu to smoothly scroll a page of text. kid programmers these days. | 16:25 |
| cheeringsnork | Sorry, I got distracted with breakfast. Glad to see it is working! :-) | 16:25 |
| Guest5543 | hyrcanus are do commenting my issue? | 16:33 |
| Guest5543 | if so - i turned acceleration off | 16:33 |
| Guest5543 | probably driver issue | 16:34 |
| hyrcanus | yes sounds like it | 16:34 |
| hyrcanus | glmark2 will give you an idea about whether accelerated gpu drivers are working | 16:34 |
| user282069 | the installer started copying files over from usb; the screen has gone to swiss cheese mode; no numlock or capslock lights or tty1 etc. give it 10m and rs or rs or? | 19:40 |
| user282069 | this is with an nvidia card; 750ti if i remember. no big deal i think | 19:42 |
| user282069 | i was wondering what the post install scripts were gonna do;; would rather it go through first time than try again to see (^^; | 19:44 |
| user282069 | second crash; this time with livefilesystem in ram. hrm... sha sum was OK | 19:57 |
| user282069 | maybe this usb stick is wasted | 20:17 |
| mason | user282069: I've had some USB stick have surprising, erratic errors. Worth trying another one to compare. | 20:19 |
| user282069 | thats right; is there anything for a quick test like with fdisk? | 20:32 |
| user282069 | nothing wrong in dmesg anyway | 20:32 |
| mason | user282069: Might be worth a memtest86 run too for kicks. | 20:34 |
| Harzilein | hi | 20:45 |
| Harzilein | isn't the copyright notice on the "f10" page of the install cd's grub config lacking an updated copyright year? | 20:45 |
| mason | Harzilein: Could be, but the year in the notice ends up being ~irrelevant. | 20:46 |
| mason | Having a notice at all ends up being optional as copyright is implicit. | 20:46 |
| gnarface | user282069: if you're seeing corrupted screen graphics/glyphs it could also be a sign of failing video ram | 20:47 |
| gnarface | (common with older nvidia hardware) | 20:47 |
| Harzilein | mason: its presence in incomplete form implies that it was untouched though, which i'm not sure is actually the case | 20:47 |
| mason | Harzilein: Which CD? | 20:49 |
| Harzilein | mason: and it would present a problem for anyone who wants to make a devuan blend and incorporate it, because that person would need to research the matter then at the latest in order to not not-acknowledge the copyright. | 20:50 |
| Harzilein | mason: devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_netinstall.iso | 20:51 |
| mason | Ah, fetching that one as I just have the RC for that image. | 20:51 |
| Harzilein | fwiw i'm somewhat stuck (due to exotic circumstances on my side) in those screens and still pondering how i should proceed, that's why i flipped through all those pages out of boredom. | 20:53 |
| mason | I tend to mostly do customized installs via debootstrap so I don't tend to spend a lot of time there. | 20:53 |
| Harzilein | that's how i proceeded in the past as well, but this machine doesn't currently have linux on it (it's a 2010 mac mini) | 20:56 |
| mason | https://mirrors.ocf.berkeley.edu/devuan-cd/devuan_chimaera/desktop-live/ works well for it | 20:57 |
| Harzilein | i might end up doing just that anyway, likely working from tiny core linux dcore. | 20:57 |
| mason | kk, download finished, looking | 20:57 |
| Harzilein | mason: i only have _one_ flash medium, not two and currently want to preserve the macos that's installed on it. | 20:58 |
| mason | Harzilein: kk, the dates are older but that's not super relevant. The copyright and distributions terms are identified, which is the critical bit. | 20:58 |
| Harzilein | mason: hence my likely choice of choosing a debinstall host that loads into ram. | 20:59 |
| Harzilein | mason: i'm not saying it's critical, i'm saying fixing it (and not taking it out entirely would be the conservative option) might help another person further down the line. | 21:00 |
| mason | Harzilein: I don't think it'd help or hinder. Might be worth filing a bug. Copyright by Dyne might mean we need a Dyne person to make a new source available. | 21:01 |
| mason | Harzilein: https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ03.pdf and in particular the section "When Notice Is Optional" | 21:03 |
| Harzilein | i'm not from ".gov" country ;) | 21:04 |
| mason | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention | 21:04 |
| hyrcanus | nuremberg convention | 21:05 |
| Harzilein | i understood you the first time around, the notice might not be required for the sake of the author's protection, still, whenever someone changes the works, it'd be nice if he does not need to unnecessarily need to tinker with the copyright notice at all but just add his own. | 21:06 |
| Harzilein | and i see a need to tinker if he changes it sufficiently to add his own. | 21:07 |
| gnarface | Harzilein: you're trying not to blow up the stock macos install on a mac mini? why not use the live image? | 21:07 |
| Harzilein | because otherwise he'd somewhat misrepresent it (if published this year) as "all changes in 2021 (c) by me" | 21:08 |
| Harzilein | gnarface: because that's not sufficiently persistent. | 21:08 |
| gnarface | Harzilein: what's it gonna actually do? is there an option to run it in a VM? | 21:09 |
| Harzilein | gnarface: i explored the vm situation as much as "i don't want to deal with a apple account to d/l xcode", "the qemu in rudix-snowleopard crashes", "virtualbox 4.x series chokes on the current kernel" | 21:10 |
| Harzilein | an* | 21:10 |
| gnarface | oh | 21:10 |
| gnarface | parallels works great but i think it's expensive | 21:11 |
| Harzilein | we indeed used to have parallels at w0k contemporary to this mac. but not on this one, it was an old corporate thing too but apparently from a design person. | 21:12 |
| gnarface | although you'd be surprised what you can run directly on osx if you just compile and install all the gtk dependencies | 21:17 |
| gnarface | the library paths are all whack but mostly stuff works if you fix them | 21:17 |
| gnarface | or at least they used to last i used it... i guess it has been a while | 21:18 |
| * Tenkawa actually finds parallels very useful on his mbp | 22:22 | |
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