libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2021-10-17

BeerAnyone having set the ISC dhclient successfully on an interface to set IPv6 up in /etc/network/interfaces in chimaera?00:13
BeerWas working wonders in beowulf, but since the upgrade I can't get the DHCPv6 client behave00:13
BeerSpecifically, it seems it's associateing the IPv6 address to the interface which doesn't seem to work00:17
linux_nDoes devuan have a deb for virtualbox?01:53
golinuxlinux_n: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=virtualbox&x=submit01:58
golinuxBut . . . iirc . . . it didn' t used to provide the guest-additions.02:00
linux_nI have devuan chimaera the link you gave me if i use the one for ceres is it compatible or only works for ceres?02:07
golinuxceres = sid02:07
golinuxSo unstable.  Would be better to backport it if possible02:08
linux_nok thanks02:09
jason1234Please find the compiled version of ioquake3 for amd64 (quake3):  https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/ioquake3-linux   for devuan ascii, with firmware also. it works.07:18
user282069my sound has only dummy output. in dmesg snd_hda_codec_realtek autoconfig for ALC887-VD is misconfigured11:01
user282069i dont know whats going on or what im looking at https://pastebin.com/raw/3Msfqg7w11:15
devuanizedhi guys, I wondered if it would be possible to install the papirus icon theme and match the folders' color with Deepsea11:29
devuanizedI would also love to use arc theme with Deepsea scheme11:34
user282069blacklisting snd_hda_codec_realtek does not help. the same misconfiguration then occurs with snd_hda_codec_generic11:46
user282069thank you for the help last night, and any ideas today11:48
ShorTiecan a postinst be made for the live cd install ??13:55
masonuser282069: dummy output sounds like a PulseAudio issue17:32
user282069thank you again mason17:33
masonuser282069: Look at /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf maybe17:34
tr-amarsh04check this thread "PulseAudio always resets to mute" also: http://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=400217:45
masonuser282069: Oh, and maybe make sure your user is part of the audio group, and then log out/in.17:46
masonMy solution to PulseAudio issues is to not run PulseAudio, FWIW.17:47
masonVideochat via web browsers, Steam, everything's happy with no PulseAudio.17:47
hyrcanusmason: +18:29
hyrcanusa nice project would be per-app volume control via alsa-only18:30
hyrcanuscan be done18:30
buZza nicer project is to get pipewire working18:42
buZzso you can play steamgames with audio without pulseaudio running18:42
TenkawabuZz: whats the difference in pulse having its own daemon and pipe having one?18:48
masonbuZz: Eh? You missed where I said I run Steam and have audio, but that I don't run PulseAudio.18:49
Tenkawaand for your scenario above to work they would have to rewrite a lot of api output code18:49
masonSteam doesn't require PulseAudio. It's happy with ALSA.18:49
masonI'm as unlikely to run Pipewire as PulseAudio, honestly.18:50
buZzmason: -some- work with alsa only , yeah18:51
buZzmost seem to very hard require pulse18:51
masonbuZz: Not from what I can see. Absolutely everything I own works with ALSA.18:51
buZznot my experience , but fine by me :)18:53
masonbuZz: Your configuration was probably wrong.18:53
buZzcould be , just a default devuan install18:53
masonYeah, try using a dmix.18:53
debdogso, no one is gonna mention apulse?18:54
masonno need18:54
masonanyway: https://bpa.st/BCKQ18:54
Tenkawamason: ahh.. i found an example.. firefox18:54
Tenkawamason: firefox requires pulseaudio now18:54
masonThe capture half of that is because I want my webcam to be my microphone, but the default audio to be how I emit sound.18:54
masonTenkawa: Since when?18:55
masonTenkawa: Firefox is fine emitting audio with no PulseAudio.18:55
masonTenkawa: Debian builds it this way.18:55
masonThis is all very strange.18:55
Tenkawamason: not anymore according to what I'm reading..18:55
masonTenkawa: Did buZz write what you were reading?18:56
Tenkawano I'm reading a bug report18:56
masonJust kidding. It works. At least as of Chimaera. If there's something in Sid that doesn't, I can't speak to that.18:56
buZzah, i'm not running chimaera18:57
Tenkawahttps://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/574394/how-viable-is-it-to-ditch-pulseaudio18:57
TenkawaI can't speak to it myself18:57
masonTenkawa: Reply to the bug with "put your user in group 'audio' and log out and back in"18:57
Tenkawabut it does say in the report they removed it18:57
Tenkawahttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=134566118:58
Tenkawait can be compiled in by others (that might be what Debian is doing) but Mozilla's version might not have it18:59
masonTenkawa: This stuff is complex and lots of folks are very confused by it. But no amount of gaslighting is going to convince me that I'm not able to get audio is everything with plain old ALSA.18:59
masonRight, it's a build-time option, and Debian supports straight ALSA, so as a result Devuan does too.18:59
TenkawaMozilla does try to keep theirs non distro centric afterall18:59
masonWatching this right now, audio works fine: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Z58j8c3Er7Q19:00
masonFirefox as shipped by Devuan.19:00
buZziceweazel?19:00
masonThe trademark thing went away years ago, didn't it?19:00
buZzbit offensive hostname there mason19:00
hyrcanusthe problem with firefox isn't pulse19:01
djph /whois mason19:01
djph... dammit19:01
mason?19:01
masondjph: You can get my PGP key ID from the web site if you need private communications.19:03
djph?19:04
systemdleteAnyone familiar with this problem:  File systems going readonly, suddenly?  I've seen this in the past, but I'm talking years ago.  Recently (last several days), I've seen this several times on several VMs (but not the host).  I've looked at the host logs and I don't see any hard failures (messages with "ata something"19:18
systemdleteRebooting fixes this because it usually does a fsck on the problem fs.19:19
systemdleteI'm wondering if this might be related to a recent kernel update.19:19
masonsystemdlete: dmesg say anything on the VMs?19:20
systemdleteI asked this in -dev also, but since I haven't heard back there, I posted here also19:20
systemdletehmmm.  I looked in the syslog on those, but not dmesg19:21
masonsystemdlete: dmesg is the first place to look for things like this, as if the disks go read-only, nothing can log any more19:21
systemdletegood point.19:21
systemdleteI will def keep that in mind, mason !19:22
masonYou might also think about setting up netconsole to capture log on another system in case you can't log in.19:22
masons/log/&s/19:22
masonhttps://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/networking/netconsole.html for instance19:22
systemdletethere's also rsyslog which can do that19:22
systemdlete(using port 514, etc?)19:22
masonmore moving parts19:22
masonnetconsole is ideal for debugging this kind of thing, but you, maybe you can get it via syslog too19:23
masons/but you/but sure/19:23
masontyping--19:23
systemdleteah, I see.19:24
masonThe big thing is that netconsole dumps the kernel message buffer directly19:24
systemdlete(brain tells fingers what to type, and fingers still do what they want.)19:24
masonExactly.19:24
systemdleteI know!19:25
systemdleteall the time here19:25
masonI feel like maybe I have some bad buffer RAM in my fingers.19:25
systemdletewith me, I think it might be the arthritis19:25
systemdletebut I've never been very coordinated really19:25
systemdleteI am looking at netconsole man page now19:25
systemdletewow.  so it sends the messages directly from the kernel (module)?19:26
masonYeah, rather than being funnelled through syslog19:26
systemdletesure, I see why you suggest that19:26
masonAre you seeing this with Beowulf or Chimaera?19:27
systemdletebeowulf19:27
systemdletealthough, I do still have one ascii VM (soon to be upgraded now that chimaera is out)19:27
masonHrm. I haven't seen that at all here, with Beowulf/libvirt/kvm as the hypervisor.19:27
systemdletenot sure if I've seen this there or not19:27
mason(beowulf as both guest and hypervisor here, although that shouldn't matter)19:28
systemdletethe host is beowulf also.  But no sign of hardware troubles on the host19:28
masonqcow as backing storage?19:29
systemdleteI would mention that I'm using vbox, but I really don't want to get into the whole bit about "why?" -- I'm using the kvm mode for all the VMs, so other than some logging vbox does, I don't see why it would make much difference19:29
masonOh.19:29
systemdleteyeah, oh.19:29
masonThat's a variable I can't easily reproduce here. I'd tend to suspect that's the root of the issue. I've had good luck with both Xen and KVM in the past, but not so much with VirtualBox.19:30
systemdleteI've had few, if any, problems with vbox itself over the years. So I have continued to use it.19:30
systemdletewhat kind of problems, if I may ask?19:30
systemdleteOther people also tell me similar things, but I have not encountered them.19:30
masonIt's been a long time. Actually, the issues might not matter since IIRC it was a Mac as hypervisor there. Many years ago. Probably not relevant. But high CPU usage and instability on both guest and host.19:31
systemdletewhat signs of instability, e.g.?19:31
systemdleteI mean, how do you know it is vbox causing it and not something else?19:32
masonIt's long enough go that I don't really have usable data any more, just impressions of past unhappiness.19:32
masonago*19:32
systemdleteyeah, that's the sort of deal I hear from other people.  Perhaps vbox went through a bad period -- there were instances I recall where they had to put out an emergency fix right after an update.19:33
systemdleteThere were a couple of times VMs became unusable after an update.19:33
systemdletebut these did not occur often or recently19:34
systemdleteI usually hold back from upgrading to x.0 when it comes out.  I wait until about x.6 or so and then upgrade19:34
masonMaybe check the mailing lists. Less luck of the draw getting someone with relevant experience.19:34
systemdleteLet other people suffer the new versions...19:34
masonYeah.19:34
systemdleteBut, mason.  I do that with MOST software anyway...19:35
systemdleteit's an old "trick" I learned when I worked for a large financial institution years ago.19:35
systemdletee.g., it was months before I ascii->beowulf19:36
masonI often wait on lots of stuff, but I wanted Chimaera earlier than usual here because I no longer have to manually build libsane to drive my newer scanner.19:36
systemdleteHate doing that to peers, but I get frustrated and kind of "sieze up" with those sorts of things.19:36
systemdletethere are always instances like that.19:36
masonIt was particularly unfortunate because the package tools changed, so I couldn't just build the -testing package on Beowulf.19:37
masonGNU/Stow to the rescue19:37
systemdleteWhat I would do with that, probably, is set up a VM with chimaera to run sane and redirect requests through the VM.19:37
systemdleteIt's clumsy, but it insulates the rest of my systems and software here so I can continue to visit my bank and other sites in peace without having to worry I will be missing my money and the rest of my life while the problems get sorted out...19:38
masonheh19:38
systemdletethen the worst that can happen is I can't scan (or whatever it is I needed)19:38
systemdleteI guess a REAL programmer would hunt down the bug with everyone else.19:39
systemdleteSee, after getting screwed a few times by vbox, linux kernel, and other updates, I have learned to avoid the worst downside risk by taking steps like these.19:40
systemdleteAgain, thanks for the netconsole tip.  I will definitely look into that19:40
masonsure, hope it helps19:41
masonsystemdlete: Note that you almost certainly already have the module available and installed. Comes with the kernel.19:42
systemdleteI love free stuff like that!19:43
buZzi've had no such experiences with virtualbox ever20:06
buZzbut i also dont use apple hw20:06
user3614After migrating from Debian buster to Devuan chimaera, the udoubleacute key on my keyboard is interpreted as iacute.  How can I change the key back?20:23
buZzuser3614: maybe > dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration20:24
buZzalso check /etc/default/keyboard20:24
buZzunless you ment X , then maybe look at xkbmap stuff, not sure20:25
user3614I have checked it, and it is the same as before.20:26
FlibberT1hi, any special gotchas with moving my 'test' laptop from chimera to daedalus?20:26
Tenkawathat sounds like xmodmap20:27
Tenkawauser3614: did you check xmodmap?20:27
user3614The keyboard problem is present even on the console, and even if I boot the desktop-live image.20:27
Tenkawaah its both?20:28
buZzmaybe you moved from ca-fr to fr-fr ? :D20:28
user3614Does xmodmap also affect the console?20:28
buZzit does not20:28
Tenkawathats general kb settings20:28
user3614It is "hu"20:28
buZzah, just a guess :)20:28
* buZz waves to hungary20:29
debdoguser3614: stumbled on setkeycodes today. no clue whether that can solve your issue, it might be worth a look.20:31
user3614debdog, thank you, I am reading its man page now.20:32
FlibberT1no wicd on daedalus? what's to use instead please?20:36
debdogFlibberT1: chimaera's relese notes lists some alternatives https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/Release_notes.txt20:37
user3614FlibberT1: The alternatives are connman, cmst, ifupdown, network-manager.20:38
FlibberT1brill, thanks20:39
FlibberT1really wish i'd uninstalled texlive before running dist-upgrade -- more MB than the OS itself :)20:44
user3614I have figured out the setkeycodes command to restore keyboard settings, thanks to all who have answered me.20:55
user3614One more question: where to add this command, so that it is executed at boot time?20:56
golinuxFlibberT1: Nice to see you!21:16
golinuxuser3614: Maybe it has something to do with going from buster to chimaera and skipping beowulf21:17
golinuxbuster = beowulf and bullseye = chimaera21:18
user3614golinux: Thanks.  I am still wondering why the issue happens with the chimaera desktop-live image, too.21:24
golinuxuser3614: That dev is w/o interent atm.  I'll review the issue and give him a quick call. He might have an answer21:29
user3614golinux: Thank you!21:29
golinuxHis suggestion is the same as buZz: dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration21:36
FlibberT1hi golinux, nice to see you too!21:49
XenguybuZz, yewtu.be is an offensive name?  I thought yew was a type of tree or wood?22:00
FlibberT1hi, seeing 'does not have a Release file [etc...]' for daedalus-security, daedalus-updates and daedalus-proposed-updates...22:02
FlibberT1when I run apt update22:02
golinuxIs there security for testing?22:10
golinuxI think only for stable22:10
FlibberT1ah, might explain it! i was going by the entries in https://www.devuan.org/os/packages22:11
hyrcanusFlibbertiGibbet22:15
FlibberT1hey hyrcanus22:17
FlibberT1is it something to do with updating the keyring?22:18
hyrcanusno, it's a reference to the movie "Joe vs the Volcano"22:21
buZzlol22:22
FlibberT1marvellous :/22:41
FlibberT1:)22:41
joergsorry for the noise22:51
Xenguylikewise I'm sure22:55
systemdletewhat have I done here?  Finsh partitioning, hit ok, screen blanks for a moment, then tells me "Attempt to mount a filesystem with type ext4 ... at '/' failed"22:55
masonsystemdlete: What context? Mounting something on / from a running system is probably going to fail in most circumstances.22:56
systemdleteI've web searched a bit, but I only briefly looked at them.  They don't call out to me.22:56
systemdleteduring install of chimaera (fresh install)22:56
buZzXenguy: sorry for the kick earlier, didnt realize you were a teammember or even in here earlier ;)22:56
masonsystemdlete: Which media?22:57
systemdletedevuan chimaera netinstall amd6422:57
masonAh, I just snagged the netinstall image the other day - legacy install? What partitioning did you select?22:58
systemdleteexpert install22:58
masonsystemdlete: And, VM? Hardware?22:58
systemdleteVM22:58
systemdletewhat do you mean by "legacy?"22:58
systemdleteIs that a cut about how old I am?22:59
systemdlete:D22:59
masonsystemdlete: I hit an anomaly gathering screenshots the other day and while it haven't tracked it down, I haven't ruled out that it was because of the virtio drivers presenting vd instead of sd22:59
buZznon-uefi , i guess22:59
masonsystemdlete: MBR/BIOS partitioning, as opposed to GPT22:59
systemdleteyeah.  DOS disk partitioning with one primary partition22:59
masonsystemdlete: Mostly I want to know what to install to reproduce what you saw.22:59
masonkk, that's easy enough then22:59
masonI'll give it a try.23:00
systemdleteBUt23:00
systemdleteI am using lvm23:00
systemdleteI've created encrypted partitions including root (/)23:00
systemdlete(which seems to be why it is belly-acheing at me)23:00
systemdleteI have this same arrangement on beowulf, refracta and even starlinux23:01
systemdlete(I've tried them all, just for the heck)23:01
systemdletebut those are all beowulf/spock releases23:01
systemdletethis is the first time I am trying to install chimaera with this partitioning.23:02
masonsystemdlete: Oh..... That might be a bit of an issue. Unless something's changed, GRUB needs a boot partition if root is encrypted.23:02
systemdleteIt has a /boot (unencrypted)23:02
masonOh, you said one primary.23:02
masonWhat's the full layout?23:02
systemdleteprimary, as in the MSDOS disk partitioning (grub stuff)23:02
systemdleteseparate partitions of about 2g for var, tmp, home, root, swap (all encrypted)23:03
systemdleteand usr 6g unencrypted and /boot about .5g unencrypted23:03
systemdleteOne 16gb disk will do23:04
masonsystemdlete: So, /boot unencrypted, and the rest of those inside encrypted LVM?23:04
systemdleteno23:04
masonTwo partitions?23:04
systemdlete /usr is unencrypted23:04
systemdletethey are all lv's23:04
hyrcanuswhy is /tmp in ram.  can we not do that.23:05
systemdleteprobably 7 or 8 partitions23:05
XenguybuZz, Just seeing this now...23:05
hyrcanusi mean i disabled it. but ... as a default23:05
masonhyrcanus: You can use tmpfs for /tmp23:05
XenguyI am sorry as well, I did not intend to cause offence23:05
XenguybuZz, ^^23:05
hyrcanusyeah that's bad23:05
masonXenguy: As noted, not your fault.23:05
hyrcanusmaybe it was a remnant of my previous system23:05
joergwhile I'm generally for a strikt policy enforcement regarding sustaining a welcoming non-discriminating non racist non-sexist etc pp (younameit) mood in all IRC channels, I'm sure a simple /kick for a question about a word that is three letters and two of them are common with jew as well as with you(tube) is NOT the way to achieve this23:05
buZzright, it just appeared like a join and question out of the blue23:06
buZzabout something that wasnt even a issue initially, so felt aimed at causing issues23:06
masonsystemdlete: I'm struggling to come up with an adequate mental map of partitions vs logical volumes, and in particular volume groups and PVs for what you're installing. Could I bother you to pop a map onto bpaste.net or similar?23:07
buZzall i said was a hostname was a bit offensive23:07
systemdletemason: I would but23:07
systemdletethis is in vbox, and I don't have a way to sort of copy and paste it23:07
masonsystemdlete: No need. I'll give you an example.23:07
systemdleteOne large Primary partition in fdisk say23:07
systemdletethen23:07
systemdleteone pv23:07
systemdleteone vg on that one pv23:08
systemdleteand the rest of above are lv's23:08
masonsystemdlete: And LUKS?23:08
systemdlete2 are unencrypted, the rest are encrypted23:08
systemdleteyes, luks23:08
XenguybuZz, I wasn't sure why, so I just asked to find out.  I use that alternative to youtube all the time, so I wondered if it was a 'bad name' or something23:08
masonsystemdlete: Are you saying you've got LUKS *inside* the LVs?23:08
systemdlete(for the encrypted)23:08
systemdleteyes23:08
systemdletethe installer lets me do that23:08
systemdletethere are 2 ways to encrypt, apparently.  You can  either encrypt the raw disk, or you can encrypt at the lv level23:09
masonsystemdlete: FWIW, a super common and far simpler layout is: two partitions, one for /boot (ext, unencrypted) and one for LUKS. Inside that LUKS is the PV holding your volume group, and then root, swap, and whatever else you want inside of that. That's well-supported by the installer as well.23:09
buZzXenguy: its a 'bit' because its not 1:1 , its sounding alike, some people experience IRC through a screenreader only23:09
systemdletemason: I've done it that way in the past.  But this time, I wanted to be able to do it all from the lvm level.23:10
masonsystemdlete: The installer will let you set up arbitrarily complex combinations, but they don't always work out as we might wish once it's all installed.23:10
buZznothing wrong with invidious at all , imho23:10
systemdletemason: Yeah.  I've noticed...  LOL23:10
masonMaybe the discussion of Invidious could move to #devuan-offtopic.23:10
systemdletemason:  There is one leetle thing I did not tell you...23:10
masonsystemdlete: The issue with what you've got might revolve around GRUB still. Not sure how happy it is loading up LVM to find /boot.23:11
systemdleteI had originally tried the layout you are suggesting, then went back in to the partitioning step with this configuration23:11
systemdletegrub is not even installed yet.  I'm still at partitioning23:11
systemdletemason:  Maybe a reboot will clear the installer's head?23:12
systemdleteis there a way to save the state of the install with, say, a thumb drive?23:12
masonsystemdlete: Well. Yeah, you can pop one in and write out partition, LUKS, and LVM state to files on a thumb drive from a virtual console.23:14
systemdleteand then restore them after reboot?23:15
masonsystemdlete: Recommendation: include this command output: blkid, pvs, vgs, lvs23:15
systemdletemainly, I want to avoid having to enter the same password umpteen times for the encrypted partitions23:15
masonsystemdlete: Well. I'd think about doing LUKS differently.23:15
systemdletethe way I did previously...23:15
systemdletewhich works and doesn't make the installer choke to death23:15
masonAnd is a bit simpler.23:16
systemdletemeh23:16
masonFewer keys to unlock on boot anyway.23:16
systemdleteI don't find it much more complicated really.23:16
systemdleteactually, it dawns on me I could have one big encrypted LV, and then do bind mounts for the individual filesystems... but again, I don't know if the installer would understand that23:17
systemdleteeither.23:17
masonThe installer won't do the bind mounts, but you can just have multiple volumes and that works.23:17
systemdletewhich is what I have, yes23:17
systemdleteI mean, what you are telling me to do is precisly the way I've done it in the past for devuan23:18
systemdleteI was hoping to use a slightly different strategy23:18
masonThat could well be. It's super common. Might even be what you end up with with guided partitioning if you opt for encryption.23:18
systemdleteI think I'll just do this whole blasted thing over again.  Maybe this time the repartitioning of the disk won't interfere so much.23:19
systemdletenah.  I'm stubborn enough.  And heaven knows, I've got the time to dick around with this.23:19
masonsystemdlete: You can do it. Just be aware of boot ordering.23:21
systemdletethere is only one OS in this VM23:21
systemdleteor do you mean something else?23:21
systemdleteone disk and one OS23:22
masonsystemdlete: No, I mean, the system processes LUKS, then LVM, then MD, all in some order, with a chance for late entries, but it's possible to create a logically valid stack that's not actually supportable with the default software.23:22
systemdleteI've never run into an issue with that in a VM, except one time when I was experimenting with RAID in a VM -- to simulate a real-world HARDWARE problem I was having.  (btw, I WAS able to replicate it.  very handy!)23:23
systemdleteoh23:23
systemdleteI see.  Yeah, that has occurred to me.23:23
systemdleteI would likely have to craft a hand-made boot image, etc etc etc etc etc23:23
systemdletemason:  My bucket list for partitioning/LVM schemes -- the ability to encrypt a Volume Group, as opposed to individual LV's or underlying harddisk partitions.23:24
systemdletebut that's just dreaming23:24
masonsystemdlete: If you read through the scripts you can see which block device providers can be early, late, etc. You can also give hints with, for instance, the initramfs flag in crypttab.23:25
systemdletethanks, I forgot about that flag23:25
systemdleteI've tried to keep this all reasonably simple and probably why it has worked.23:25
masonsystemdlete: Is it possible to have a PV associated with more than one VG? Or do you mean you want the encryption handled by LVM itself somehow?23:26
judabudahello, can minimal-live be used to install minimal devuan installation?23:27
systemdleteIOW, just as LVM currently has the ability to encrypt LV's (but ONLY LV's), if there were some way to extend that logic to the entire volume group.  I mean, all it really needs to do is what it currently does, but just allow admins/installe personnel to specify that they want all LVs on the VG to be encrypted.  That way all of them could be associated with the same key, etc23:27
systemdleteI thought I had actually done that a few months back, experimenting, but I really don't remember now.23:28
masonjudabuda: yes23:28
systemdleteI am not sure if you can associate one PV with multiple VGs.  I've never tried it.23:29
systemdletethe problem is that there is no device, per se, associated with a VG, only with indivdual LVs.  So the cryptsetup has no way to associate a VG to encrypt.  I guess that is what would have to change.  But then the encryption subsystem has to get smart about LVM, and that is probably why such a thing would never happen.23:32
systemdleteunless LVM itself were to implement cryptography.23:33
systemdletemason:  Thanks for your feedback and help.  You have convinced me to go back to my old approach.  Too many cycles being wasted on this.23:34
masoncool, happy to help - I need to go feed the chickens some bread, but I'll be back later23:34
* systemdlete is feeling a bit chicken himself, actually...23:35
judabudadid devs add trinitydesktop.org to devuan installation, i heard they will it add it in advanced installation23:42
judabuda??23:42
Hydragyrumit doesn't appear to be in ceres package repos yet23:47
judabudawhat is best way to install xfce, install other DE and remove xfce packages so only other DE packages are kept?23:53

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