| systemdlete | So I renamed a chimaera host -- heaven help me -- and I went through all of /etc looking for any traces of the original name. I thought I'd found all of them, but apparently not. The daily logwatch is reporting zillions (that's zillions, with a 'z') of errors from elogind-daemon alerting me of new seesions by root and my regular user. These have only appeared in the logwatch report since I rebooted with the new name. | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| systemdlete | (be nice if logwatch realized these are really all the same message and combined them by globbing on the session id's) | 00:17 |
| * systemdlete longs for the days prior to about CentOS 6...) | 00:17 | |
| ShorTie | there is a specific way to change hostname | 00:19 |
| systemdlete | I am using a graphical desktop | 00:19 |
| systemdlete | ShorTie: Do tell | 00:19 |
| ShorTie | Debian will trll you with help of Mr.google | 00:20 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: i suspect you merely needed to grep your home directory as well | 00:20 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: likely something in ~/.conf or ~/.local | 00:20 |
| systemdlete | elogind looks in my home directory? Zillions of times a day? | 00:21 |
| systemdlete | (just wondering...) | 00:21 |
| gnarface | conceivably with inotify or fnotify or whatever | 00:21 |
| systemdlete | example: elogind-daemon: New session 1707 of user root.: 1 Time(s) | 00:21 |
| Joy-Unit | i dont remember who needs elogind | 00:21 |
| gnarface | ... so that it can do stuff like create desktop widgets on the fly | 00:22 |
| systemdlete | Leonart Poettering needs it | 00:22 |
| gnarface | based on filesystem state | 00:22 |
| systemdlete | So now everyone else in the world has to need it too | 00:22 |
| gnarface | just a guess | 00:22 |
| gnarface | either that or it's something retrying because of the failure case | 00:22 |
| systemdlete | How did they create desktop widgets on the fly before Lennart was born? | 00:22 |
| Joy-Unit | i have it installed and i think i dont want it | 00:22 |
| Joy-Unit | there's some rdepends command | 00:23 |
| gnarface | apt-cache rdepends [package] | 00:23 |
| systemdlete | how did people get around before Ford arrived on the scene? | 00:23 |
| Joy-Unit | it seems i don't care about this package at all | 00:23 |
| systemdlete | did programmers before c. 2010 have magical powers? | 00:23 |
| Joy-Unit | rdepends doesn't say gparted will be removed when i remove elogind but apt does | 00:24 |
| Joy-Unit | apt-cache rdepends elogind is not complete? | 00:24 |
| gnarface | well inotify was around before systemd i think, but probably originally things were created as user action hooks before someone found an efficient way to fake realtime filesystem state polling | 00:25 |
| gnarface | Joy-Unit: not sure, did you run apt-get update first? | 00:25 |
| systemdlete | fake | 00:25 |
| Joy-Unit | i do that now | 00:25 |
| Joy-Unit | i think gparted wants it to get root privs or something maybe | 00:26 |
| gnarface | gparted needs root privs to work but i think it does have some dependency complication lately | 00:26 |
| Joy-Unit | we should make a statue for the author of gparted | 00:26 |
| gnarface | maybe just at the package level though, as in you might be able to rebuild the package without it... | 00:26 |
| Joy-Unit | do you run without elogind? | 00:27 |
| gnarface | using it here on some machines, not others | 00:27 |
| gnarface | didn't cause any problems in beowulf | 00:27 |
| Joy-Unit | seems it might be worth building gparted without it | 00:27 |
| systemdlete | ok, elogind spawns zillions of "new session"s, one for each time ssh calls to run a naemon (nagios) script | 00:27 |
| gnarface | yikes | 00:28 |
| systemdlete | still, can't pam or whatever do this without elogind's assistance? the ssh login is (1) automated (read: script), and (2) does not use any graphical resources (hopefully) | 00:28 |
| gnarface | i'm definitely running openssh-server on machines without elogind, so yes | 00:29 |
| gnarface | my guess is this is a "bonus" feature | 00:29 |
| systemdlete | oh goody! | 00:29 |
| systemdlete | I love bonus features, esp if they are free | 00:29 |
| gnarface | you might be able to avoid it by changing the user to be a system user | 00:29 |
| systemdlete | (as in free beer) | 00:29 |
| gnarface | or something like that | 00:29 |
| systemdlete | user is some guy named "root" (see above) | 00:30 |
| gnarface | oh hmm | 00:30 |
| systemdlete | yeah, HIM | 00:30 |
| gnarface | do the grep thing for hostname in user config directories | 00:30 |
| gnarface | do that first, because maybe that and a reboot will fix this | 00:30 |
| gnarface | i'm pretty sure this is an issue that's come up before but i forget the "right way" to fix it | 00:31 |
| systemdlete | matching on the original name, the imap cache file has a hit. That's all. | 00:32 |
| systemdlete | Oh wait | 00:32 |
| systemdlete | I *do* have an email session open from another system | 00:33 |
| systemdlete | but I would not think email needs some kind of elogind session to do its work | 00:33 |
| systemdlete | disabling nagios checks on the host in question. Wait a few minutes and see if those messages cease. | 00:37 |
| * systemdlete tries to eliminate potential sources one by one... | 00:37 | |
| systemdlete | those messages appear in the auth.log | 00:38 |
| systemdlete | sometimes multiple times per minute! | 00:38 |
| hyrcanus | apt purge elogind locked up system hard | 00:39 |
| gnarface | i think literally any gui program will initiate a session | 00:39 |
| hyrcanus | but now it's gone :) | 00:40 |
| gnarface | hah | 00:40 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: the offending hostname instance might be hidden in some gvfsd database file | 00:42 |
| systemdlete | encrypted or compressed you mean? | 00:43 |
| gnarface | i think just binary packed xml or sqlite | 00:44 |
| gnarface | and it's probably gonna be something you're gonna kick yourself for forgetting, like a text field in network-manager or wicd or something like that | 00:44 |
| systemdlete | not using nm or wicd | 00:45 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 00:45 |
| systemdlete | grep -ir oldhostname /etc | 00:45 |
| gnarface | i wish i could remember what it was last time, this has definitely come up before chimaera | 00:45 |
| systemdlete | returns pretty much nothing | 00:45 |
| systemdlete | (just references in lvm's backup directories) | 00:45 |
| gnarface | i think fsmithered was there | 00:46 |
| gnarface | he might remember | 00:46 |
| systemdlete | also, in /etc/ssh/, in the key files | 00:46 |
| systemdlete | (who uses those?) | 00:47 |
| gnarface | hmm, you have global keys in /etc/ssh? | 00:47 |
| systemdlete | I vaguely recall reading about those... | 00:47 |
| systemdlete | I think those were created at system installation | 00:47 |
| gnarface | hmm, i wonder if they have to be regenerated | 00:48 |
| systemdlete | maybe for the email server (exim or dovecot?) | 00:48 |
| gnarface | could be just for opensshd afaik | 00:48 |
| systemdlete | but I'd expect errors -- these are merely notices | 00:48 |
| systemdlete | true ^^ | 00:48 |
| gnarface | *but*... | 00:48 |
| gnarface | that does remind me that the user's keys in ~/.ssh have also become encrypted by default, or at least hashed or something like that | 00:49 |
| gnarface | there's no human-readable hostnames in ~/.ssh/known_hosts anymore | 00:49 |
| systemdlete | thing is, though, ssh is working | 00:49 |
| systemdlete | I can remotely ssh into the VM | 00:49 |
| systemdlete | (after the host name change) | 00:50 |
| gnarface | not so much as a warning? | 00:50 |
| systemdlete | no | 00:50 |
| systemdlete | not that I'm aware of. | 00:50 |
| systemdlete | but | 00:50 |
| systemdlete | no | 00:50 |
| systemdlete | just no | 00:50 |
| gnarface | oh, but stuff like hostname, hostname.domain, ip address, and localhost have different entries in that key file | 00:50 |
| systemdlete | if there were any problem, naemon would have choked to death by now | 00:50 |
| systemdlete | there is only one entry in my authorized_keys file, and there is no "known_hosts" file. This VM does not ssh out to other systems. | 00:51 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 00:52 |
| systemdlete | same for the root user. Just one very specific key | 00:53 |
| systemdlete | so, since disabling naemon checks on the VM, the messages have stopped | 00:53 |
| systemdlete | It looks like ssh is the "culprit" -- or rather, elogind every time sshd runs a connection | 00:54 |
| gnarface | wait, so it only happens when nagios accesses the vm by ssh, but if you use ssh as the same exact user, connecting to the same exact hostname, no error is generated? | 00:54 |
| systemdlete | hold on, I'll check | 00:55 |
| systemdlete | no, it's consistent. Manually invoking it from the remote command line also causes elogind to generate a log entry | 00:56 |
| systemdlete | no surprises there | 00:57 |
| gnarface | ok | 00:57 |
| gnarface | is there actually other than a 1:1 ratio of errors to logins? | 00:58 |
| gnarface | maybe it would be better just to tell it not to log that | 00:58 |
| systemdlete | I don't mind that these log entries appear, but what bothers me is why this specific program is causing the logging. | 00:58 |
| gnarface | though i guess it could be a security issue | 00:58 |
| systemdlete | I'm not seeing any errors per se | 00:58 |
| gnarface | i still go back to thinking there should be some way to get elogind to ignore remote logins from non-interactive sessions | 00:58 |
| gnarface | but that might come down to making sure nagios is doing it right | 00:59 |
| systemdlete | I don't see why a tool like a login daemon is needed for this. | 00:59 |
| gnarface | exactly | 00:59 |
| systemdlete | actually, "nagios" is not really doing IT | 00:59 |
| gnarface | it shouldn't be required | 00:59 |
| systemdlete | ssh is calling for a script to be run on the VM, the ssh daemon verifies the connection for security, then runs the script | 01:00 |
| systemdlete | The ssh daemon on the VM is all that is really needed to instantiate the whole thing. | 01:00 |
| systemdlete | and since we already know that elogind is just extra instrumentation not really related to ssh... | 01:01 |
| systemdlete | it is possible that elogind does some additional types of security, idk. But whatever "value added" it performs cannot possibly be stronger than the encryption provided by sshd, right? | 01:02 |
| systemdlete | ergo, it is superfluous for this purpose. | 01:03 |
| * systemdlete stated in the IRC channel, aware that this type of analysis is slightly above his pay-grade | 01:03 | |
| systemdlete | I'm wondering if the ultimate plan is for something like "logind-sshd-systemd" in the future. | 01:04 |
| systemdlete | IOW, perhaps lennart plans to further consolidate his power by taking over the functions of sshd | 01:04 |
| systemdlete | (the ever-growing hunger must be satiated, somehow) | 01:08 |
| systemdlete | gnarface: Sorry, got OT for a moment there... What I mean is that there is no nagios "daemon" running on the VM being checked -- the driver is on another system, which monitors multiple other systems and devices. | 01:12 |
| systemdlete | that "driver" so to speak arranges to launch ssh on various targets. The only daemon, per se, that is used is sshd on those targets. | 01:12 |
| systemdlete | and of course some scripts and ordinary utility programs (though some are specially written for use by nagios) | 01:13 |
| gnarface | is the user's uid higher than 1000? | 01:16 |
| gnarface | there are still some other things that segregate system users from human users | 01:17 |
| gnarface | it's possible elogind wouldn't do this for literally every user | 01:18 |
| systemdlete | root | 01:18 |
| gnarface | oh, right, we talked about htat | 01:18 |
| systemdlete | all of these calls are run as root. No, it's oK, there's a lot to consider. | 01:19 |
| systemdlete | you know what? In my case at least, I don't even login upon boot. My disks are encrypted, so I enter the password early in the bootup, thus there is really not much need to explicitly log in. | 01:21 |
| gnarface | you seeing any errors about XDG_* environment variables being unset on the VM? | 01:21 |
| systemdlete | I have disabled slim or the others on most of my systems. | 01:21 |
| gnarface | XDG_RUNTIME_DIR or such? | 01:21 |
| gnarface | might not look related but might be related | 01:22 |
| systemdlete | nothing in /var/log xorg log files | 01:22 |
| systemdlete | in the user's home .xsession-errors (again, not using that for ssh, but) there are some XDG settings, but no errors. | 01:23 |
| systemdlete | should we be hunting for errors? I don't see any real issues. | 01:24 |
| systemdlete | A lot of annoying log messages. | 01:24 |
| systemdlete | The real issue here would be elogind and why it is running for ssh | 01:24 |
| systemdlete | could just be a gap in my understanding. Maybe I should take golinux's advice and learn something about what it does. | 01:25 |
| gnarface | it's got a config file with a man page | 01:25 |
| systemdlete | ok | 01:25 |
| systemdlete | anything interesting to look at in particular? | 01:25 |
| gnarface | there's gotta be some way to get it to ignore certain users | 01:25 |
| systemdlete | I doubt that. I'm pretty sure the NSA wants COMPLETE info on all login attempts. That's probably in the SLA he signed with the govt | 01:26 |
| gnarface | you think? | 01:26 |
| systemdlete | I'm not sure, to be honest. | 01:27 |
| gnarface | i figured there'd be something in there like IgnoreUsers= | 01:27 |
| gnarface | comma-separated list | 01:27 |
| systemdlete | NSAserveraddr= | 01:27 |
| systemdlete | RHmarketing= | 01:27 |
| systemdlete | IgnoreLennart= | 01:28 |
| systemdlete | (there's a comment above that line warning admins NOT to set this to 1 unless they have clearance) | 01:29 |
| gnarface | i guess another option is you could just suppress those messages in rsyslogd's config | 01:31 |
| gnarface | theoretically | 01:31 |
| systemdlete | Or wait until the day I disable logwatches on all systems altogether, functionality being replaced by the whole nagios thingy | 01:32 |
| systemdlete | still, the point is... | 01:32 |
| systemdlete | I don't want something running on my systems if it is not needed. | 01:33 |
| systemdlete | one less thing to concern myself with | 01:33 |
| systemdlete | one less thing that needs updating/upgrading, configuration, etc etc etc | 01:33 |
| systemdlete | I just want to read my mail, read comics, attend some zoom meetings, and try to write snarky comments in IRC channels. | 01:34 |
| systemdlete | And browse the web for some stuff. | 01:35 |
| systemdlete | One day, over a decade ago, I could do this, proudly and boldly. Now Linux is a mess. | 01:35 |
| systemdlete | OT... retiring to -offtopic | 01:36 |
| systemdlete | thanks for the help, gnarface | 01:36 |
| hyrcanus | you still can purge the kidsoft | 01:36 |
| systemdlete | sorry, hyrcanus, missed your last post. | 04:24 |
| systemdlete | I could purge logind I guess | 04:25 |
| systemdlete | I have no plans for that type of login anyway, since my VM is secure via the decryption during boot. | 04:25 |
| systemdlete | I mean I can purge slim, not logind | 04:26 |
| systemdlete | logind is welded onto xfce* packages... | 04:26 |
| GoatAvenger | been going insane trying to get sound unbroken on a machine recently upgraded from beowolf to chimaera | 08:42 |
| GoatAvenger | so I purge pulseaudio and alsa-utils | 08:43 |
| GoatAvenger | thinking ill just reinstall them | 08:43 |
| GoatAvenger | on the reboot after the purge, sound works, lol, go fucking figure | 08:43 |
| GoatAvenger | reinstall pulseaudio, things work now, yay.. | 08:56 |
| kiwitrader | And next you can do the good thing, install pipewire & turn pulse off again | 09:07 |
| Afdal | Get gomuks in the Devuan repos pls -_- | 09:25 |
| GoatAvenger | kiwitrader, thnx for the tip | 09:53 |
| nemo | https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/874049/bf89a969ed3dde87/ | 18:35 |
| nemo | kinda interesting just for debian process | 18:35 |
| hyrcanus | thanks nemo - all new to me | 18:52 |
| hyrcanus | so since we're in the habit of typing 'which' - how about aliasing that to 'command -v' | 19:06 |
| Afdal | Does anyone else get audible popping from their speakers frequently when something opens a pulseaudio sink | 19:36 |
| hyrcanus | yes | 19:36 |
| Afdal | I never had this issue on *buntu, but it happens all the time on Devuan | 19:37 |
| Afdal | I'd really like to figure out how to make it stop | 19:37 |
| hyrcanus | iirc the bandaid they use is to never start playing audio when application starts playing audio | 19:37 |
| hyrcanus | but to ramp up volume | 19:38 |
| wikan | hi, is anyone use Vivaldi on Devuan? | 21:35 |
| wikan | i have no idea how to launch it, becuase I get GL errors only | 21:36 |
| wikan | like Vivaldi requires GPU to run | 21:36 |
| gnarface | i'm not using it but you're probably just missing packages | 21:38 |
| gnarface | what video card are you using? | 21:39 |
| wikan | installed from dpkg and from vivaldi's repos | 21:39 |
| wikan | dunno, some Intel video card. | 21:39 |
| gnarface | alright, make sure you install libgl1-mesa-glx and all dependencies | 21:39 |
| gnarface | i'm guessing it'll be a lot | 21:39 |
| gnarface | (a reboot will be required) | 21:40 |
| wikan | i have libgl1-mesa-dri installed | 21:40 |
| wikan | but -glx not | 21:40 |
| gnarface | you need it | 21:40 |
| wikan | oki, i will try | 21:40 |
| gnarface | well, either you need it or you need to make vivaldi stop trying to use hardware acceleration | 21:41 |
| gnarface | one or the other | 21:41 |
| gnarface | it's probably preferable to have it though since most apps will speed up | 21:41 |
| wikan | i can't even ask for --help, because it exists :D | 21:41 |
| neutral | why use vivaldi tho | 21:41 |
| wikan | i want to check howit will work here | 21:41 |
| wikan | ok, will back after restart | 21:42 |
| wikan | well, didn't help | 21:44 |
| wikan | i have huge problems with acceleration in web browsers | 21:45 |
| wikan | chromium was unusable until I turned acceleration off but even after it chromium reacts very slow | 21:46 |
| wikan | and i can't use surf at all :| | 21:46 |
| wikan | only firefox works fine | 21:46 |
| gnarface | let's do some sanity checks | 21:46 |
| wikan | what do you mean? | 21:47 |
| gnarface | got mesa-utils installed? | 21:47 |
| wikan | nope | 21:47 |
| gnarface | get it | 21:47 |
| wikan | well I must say, I install my system always with --no-install-recommends because I don't want too much pkgs | 21:48 |
| gnarface | that's understandable, but you might be missing core opengl components if you were missing libgl1-mesa-glx | 21:48 |
| wikan | so it is possible there are some pkgs missing | 21:48 |
| wikan | mesa-utils-extra too ? | 21:49 |
| gnarface | nah but hang on here | 21:49 |
| wikan | installed mesa | 21:49 |
| wikan | what next? | 21:49 |
| gnarface | https://paste.debian.net/1217220/ | 21:49 |
| gnarface | this is from ceres, so ignore the version numbrs | 21:49 |
| gnarface | just get all these packages to be safe | 21:50 |
| gnarface | if you grab the right one it should get the rest automatically, but like i said, libgl1-mesa-glx missing is a smoking gun for other packages missing | 21:50 |
| wikan | wait, do I really need dev? | 21:50 |
| gnarface | sorry, no ignore the -dev ones | 21:50 |
| wikan | thats I thought :) | 21:50 |
| gnarface | and actually ignore the :i386 ones too unless you have a multi-arch install already | 21:51 |
| gnarface | i just need those for wine and steam stuff | 21:51 |
| gnarface | libd3dadapter9-mesa is also almost certainly useless to both of us but i couldn't be sure | 21:52 |
| wikan | i use i386 | 21:52 |
| gnarface | oh, if you're actually on an i386 install and not using multi-arch then bviously ignore the :amd64 ones instead, but you'll need to make sure to get the :i386 version of anything i only have the :amd64 one of | 21:53 |
| gnarface | which actually might be none of them at this point | 21:53 |
| gnarface | just make sure | 21:53 |
| gnarface | vblank_mode=0 glxgears | 21:54 |
| gnarface | ^ this command, they'll repeatedly tell you is not for benchmarking, but will still provide a useful enough benchmark to distinguish between whether hardware acceleration is working or not - there should be at least a few hundred fps improvement | 21:54 |
| gnarface | (on most modern systems it's a few thousand, but your WM can impact it severely, so like i said, it's also not a good benchmark) | 21:55 |
| wikan | 6497 frames in 5.0 seconds = 1299.223 FPS | 21:55 |
| gnarface | that's in very inconclusive territory | 21:55 |
| gnarface | would be normal for an older machine | 21:55 |
| gnarface | for a newer machine definitely low enough for something to be wrong | 21:56 |
| wikan | it has 15 years ;) | 21:56 |
| gnarface | i wish we had good before/after measurements | 21:56 |
| gnarface | it's also possible the issue isn't a missing library but rather just the wrong version of one | 21:56 |
| gnarface | what's the exact opengl error you get? | 21:56 |
| wikan | great i did one step | 21:58 |
| wikan | guys from vivaldi told me how to disable gpu from command line | 21:58 |
| gnarface | heh | 21:58 |
| wikan | now i see few errors | 21:58 |
| gnarface | so vivaldi launches in sofware now? | 21:58 |
| gnarface | no opengl? | 21:58 |
| wikan | it doesn't et | 21:59 |
| gnarface | or you mean it's launching in a blank-screen diagnostic mode? | 21:59 |
| gnarface | just paste the errors at paste.debian.net | 21:59 |
| gnarface | let's see if we can figure anything out | 21:59 |
| wikan | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/3321d51a/ | 22:00 |
| wikan | probably dbus or something | 22:00 |
| wikan | but I don't like UPower thing. | 22:01 |
| Tenkawa | widevine | 22:01 |
| gnarface | https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=236020 | 22:02 |
| gnarface | this kinda looks related but it could be a red herring | 22:02 |
| gnarface | yea kinda looks like dbus is missing entirely actually | 22:03 |
| wikan | well, I think it is connected to systemd | 22:03 |
| gnarface | is dbus missing? | 22:03 |
| wikan | well dbus is installed | 22:03 |
| gnarface | is this in a VM? | 22:04 |
| Tenkawa | gnarface: looks like there is no dbus-udev bridge | 22:04 |
| wikan | message "not provided by any .service files" somehow suggests me it is systemd requirement | 22:04 |
| gnarface | wikan: well, you got the vivaldi package from a 3rd party repo for debian, right? | 22:04 |
| wikan | wait | 22:05 |
| wikan | damn maybe | 22:05 |
| gnarface | that could be the issue right there | 22:05 |
| wikan | i must check it | 22:05 |
| gnarface | i'm not seeing vivaldi in any version of devuan, according to the pkginfo.devuan.org search | 22:05 |
| wikan | i think vivaldi has Debian/Ubuntu package and repo | 22:05 |
| wikan | not Devuan | 22:06 |
| wikan | it is just "archive/dev/ stable main" | 22:06 |
| gnarface | see if you can find a way to turn off the systemd requirement without rebuilding the whole package i guess? | 22:06 |
| wikan | i don't see that argument. Asked on #vivaldi | 22:07 |
| wikan | but I do not like Vivaldi anymore :D | 22:07 |
| wikan | btw - it is helful if you don't know - https://peter.sh/experiments/chromium-command-line-switches | 22:08 |
| wikan | how it is possible that web browser or any desktop utility requires systemd. I don't get it | 22:09 |
| wikan | this is far far too much | 22:09 |
| gnarface | i agree | 22:10 |
| gnarface | it does seem like chromium has seen this issue too before | 22:10 |
| gnarface | and it seems like it could have various causes, even just a missing XDG_RUNTIME_DIR environment variable | 22:10 |
| gnarface | but chromium, firefox, and firefox-esr should all be in the repos | 22:11 |
| wikan | chromium is slow here | 22:11 |
| gnarface | ah, but maybe it won't be so bad with the opengl stuff installed | 22:11 |
| gnarface | of course maybe it'll be worse, hard to say | 22:12 |
| gnarface | if you're swapping to harddrive just running one browser and nothing else and that's what is the slowdown though, moving your swap to zram could help | 22:12 |
| gnarface | also the type of thing that might just make it worse too | 22:12 |
| wikan | well i have enough of memory | 22:13 |
| wikan | I see drawing issues. For examples menus are black white for about second and then items appear | 22:13 |
| wikan | closeing tabs takes 1 or 2 seconds | 22:14 |
| gnarface | hmm, yea that's the type of thing that the opengl acceleration is supposed to improve, but it wouldn't have worked without libgl1-mesa-glx installed | 22:14 |
| wikan | chromum needs newest machines I quess | 22:14 |
| wikan | installed and restarted machine | 22:14 |
| gnarface | have you tried chromium since the libgl1-mesa-glx installo? | 22:14 |
| gnarface | *install | 22:14 |
| wikan | wait, I will enable acceleration first | 22:15 |
| gnarface | technically you shouldn't have to reboot the whole machine, just the graphical environment, but that might not be super easy if you have a graphical login | 22:15 |
| gnarface | sometimes it's easier to restart the whole machine even when it's not necessary | 22:15 |
| wikan | hmmmm menus appears right after click | 22:15 |
| wikan | it works fast :D | 22:16 |
| gnarface | heh | 22:16 |
| wikan | i dont use graphical login | 22:16 |
| gnarface | so this whole time basically you've been only using half the hardware without that mesa library | 22:16 |
| wikan | possible | 22:16 |
| wikan | I use old machines and I had have to learn and of course I loved to configure my machine manually | 22:17 |
| gnarface | it might change the heat profile, using the video card for opengl now | 22:17 |
| gnarface | different parts of the laptop will get warmer | 22:17 |
| gnarface | if it's a desktop no worries | 22:17 |
| gnarface | just make sure your fans are all good still | 22:17 |
| wikan | so I install everything by self and with --no-install-recommends option and of course I don't use services anddaemons I may not | 22:17 |
| wikan | just to safe memory | 22:17 |
| gnarface | i think that's smart, but you gotta know your dependencies then | 22:18 |
| wikan | thanks for tip - i will monitor it | 22:18 |
| gnarface | np | 22:18 |
| wikan | well mostly i know, but I didn;'t use webkit before | 22:18 |
| wikan | everything worked fine | 22:18 |
| wikan | wait, wait... maybe surf will work too now | 22:19 |
| gnarface | browsers using opengl isn't super new, but what's probably new is that it's just now getting old enough they're not testing them very well without it anymore | 22:19 |
| gnarface | firefox probably just worked because it was the only one that could seamlessly fail over to software rendering without a command-line option | 22:19 |
| wikan | yea I quess | 22:20 |
| wikan | btw, surf sucks still ;) | 22:20 |
| gnarface | heh | 22:20 |
| wikan | anyway, i didn't like webkit :D | 22:20 |
| wikan | i will check chromium | 22:21 |
| gnarface | the closest thing to a full-featured "fast" browser i know of is midori but it's not full-featured enough for any javascript-heavy websites | 22:21 |
| gnarface | sorry i think chromium also uses webkit | 22:21 |
| gnarface | i think basically everything is webkit now except firefox | 22:21 |
| gnarface | i think even the steam built-in browser is webkit | 22:21 |
| wikan | i am looking for something good to integrate with my own bookmark managing scripts I plain to write | 22:21 |
| wikan | dmenu + keypress automation etc | 22:22 |
| wikan | firefox has problems and I automate keys pressing. This UI don't want to copy/past very often | 22:22 |
| wikan | i will check chromium to see what is better - ff or chromuum | 22:24 |
| gnarface | they probably trade places twice a year | 22:25 |
| wikan | mostly I want to check it in the context of older machines | 22:25 |
| wikan | ok, maybe another question | 22:28 |
| wikan | do you know how can I invert mouse scroll for all apps? GTK apps do not respect my xkbset settings :| | 22:29 |
| wikan | i learnt inverted scroll and it is hard to use gtk apps now | 22:30 |
| gnarface | uh, i think mouseup and mousedown are buttons like all the other mouse buttons - you can remap them in your xorg.conf settings | 22:31 |
| gnarface | just change the numerical order of them | 22:31 |
| gnarface | it might confuse you later if you forget you did that though | 22:31 |
| wikan | i don't use xorg.conf | 22:31 |
| gnarface | you don't need to make the whole thing, you can just include stanzas you want to alter the defaults/autodetect for | 22:32 |
| wikan | don't get it | 22:33 |
| wikan | how can I alter autodectection when I make a section in xorg.conf? | 22:33 |
| gnarface | it's implicit | 22:33 |
| wikan | i didn't work with xorg.conf for 10 years | 22:34 |
| wikan | ohhh | 22:34 |
| wikan | nice | 22:34 |
| wikan | i will try | 22:34 |
| gnarface | https://paste.debian.net/1217230/ | 22:34 |
| gnarface | here's a commented mess as a partial non-literal example you can use to get an idea what type of documentation you need to hunt for | 22:34 |
| gnarface | i haven't needed to do this since before devuan, but it might be because i got a better supported mouse | 22:35 |
| wikan | ok, are you sure it will work?And why modmap from commandlike doesn't? | 22:35 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure the approach will work actually, but it's the most universal, low-level place to put the setting, so if it does work there's a good chance gtk can't "ignore" it | 22:36 |
| wikan | will try ;) | 22:36 |
| wikan | thanks | 22:36 |
| gnarface | i am actually sure it will NOT work exactly as this, because this is for a significantly different hardware device | 22:36 |
| gnarface | you'll definitely have to correct the mappings for your particular mouse | 22:36 |
| wikan | understandable;) | 22:37 |
| gnarface | xmodmap likely will work if you run it after you log in to X every time, i'm guessing your window manager itself is overriding the xmodmap settings if you're running it before hand | 22:37 |
| gnarface | actually ... if that's happening, that means maybe you don't need to make the xorg.conf because maybe there's actually a control panel in your window manager that has settings for this you just don't know about? | 22:38 |
| wikan | well xmodmap works fine until I use gtk | 22:38 |
| gnarface | hmm | 22:39 |
| wikan | probably gtk apps use gnome's registry settings | 22:39 |
| gnarface | Option "HWHEELRelativeAxisButtons" "7 6" | 22:39 |
| gnarface | this line is from another mouse that needs significantly less settings | 22:39 |
| wikan | InputClass is not complicated | 22:39 |
| gnarface | i think this was just for mapping mouse-wheel tilt as a horizontal wheel xis | 22:39 |
| gnarface | *axis | 22:39 |
| wikan | Monitor section is nightmare | 22:40 |
| gnarface | i'm sure there's a lot of other stuff you can do withthe mouse settings, there's other mouse drivers too | 22:40 |
| wikan | As I remember i use 1 2 3 5 4 | 22:40 |
| hyrcanus | that's a good password | 22:43 |
| wikan | ok, thanks:) | 22:44 |
| wikan | see you ;) | 22:45 |
| systemdlete | It seems that cron jobs ALSO generate those auth.log messages, just like the ones from ssh. | 22:48 |
| systemdlete | Is there any way to remove elogind without removing 75% of my system? (probably not, but I always like to think positive...) | 22:50 |
| neutral | systemdlete: lol | 22:57 |
| systemdlete | So far, I found that sshd and cron both cause elogind to wake up and do something, though I can't figure out why it is needed for these. Neither one of these programs use any graphical resources. | 22:57 |
| systemdlete | Someone needs to be dragged out in front of the Hague for crimes against humanity in the form of cruelty to software | 22:58 |
| trmin | Okay, back to a problem discussed some times and days ago: Display, mouse and keyboard freeze after different working time with chimaera on a ryzen 7 / nvidia GTX1650 / 2 monitor well-cooled tower computer. Low and not increasing system ressources and temperature consumption before freeze. Programs as video recording and sound of video from tv card still working. None of it with ascii. Inactivation of suspend, screen saver and dpms | 23:27 |
| trmin | were NO solution (after reporting so 2 days ago the problem emerged again). I found similar freeze reports caused by FullCompositionPipeline activation in the nvidia settings. But without this setting there's an annoying tearing of videos. | 23:27 |
| hyrcanus | what windowmanager | 23:28 |
| trmin | By the way: Is there a way to join the Dev1Galaxy forum? Unfortunately my IP was marked as spam source. | 23:32 |
| golinux | trmin: pm | 23:37 |
| hyrcanus | systemdlete: i got rid of elogind and after hard-locking my system everything's happy | 23:37 |
| systemdlete | how did you do it? When I tried to remove elogind, it wanted to remove xfce* !!! | 23:38 |
| systemdlete | (I'm not too good at apt for these types of things) | 23:38 |
| golinux | trmin: Do you want to register or not? | 23:38 |
| hyrcanus | i run openbox systemdlete | 23:39 |
| hyrcanus | i'm anti 'desktop environment'. that stuff is just headaches for little gain. | 23:40 |
| systemdlete | so... | 23:40 |
| hyrcanus | so live with elogind | 23:41 |
| hyrcanus | and HAND | 23:41 |
| systemdlete | How can you say HAND to me after delivering *THAT* news? | 23:41 |
| systemdlete | :P | 23:41 |
| hyrcanus | :) | 23:43 |
| hyrcanus | praise the orb | 23:43 |
| trmin | golinux: Sorry, was looking for my display manager. Of course I want to. | 23:44 |
| systemdlete | Long live gaia... | 23:44 |
| golinux | Waiting for you on a query | 23:49 |
| golinux | trm | 23:50 |
| golinux | trmin: ^^^ | 23:50 |
| trmin | golinux: What? Where? How? | 23:52 |
| golinux | I am on a private channel waiting for you under your name | 23:53 |
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