rwp | Since "upgrade" can't add additional nor remove packages. It's trivial for apt to do it. | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
rwp | "upgrade --with-new-pkgs" can upgrade and can add but cannot remove packages. | 00:00 |
rwp | "dist-upgrade" is the one I need to stare at to ensure that the solution does not want to remove half the system. If it does then I wait and debug why. Unstable migrations mostly. | 00:00 |
brocashelm | good calls | 00:01 |
rwp | I often see people in this channel and elsewhere that jump immediately to dist-upgrade, coupled with having a Frankenstein of 3rd party packages installed. | 00:02 |
rwp | Which most often is why they are trying to get help. Because the solution was to remove half of their system! | 00:02 |
brocashelm | i just do the apt update/upgrade daily and 99% of the time have no issues | 00:03 |
darkeye | Hi, | 05:23 |
darkeye | How's it going? | 05:23 |
critr | it's still going. i don't know how. | 05:23 |
darkeye | how can I update lxqt to 1.0.0 | 05:23 |
darkeye | is it possible right now | 05:23 |
darkeye | or should I wait | 05:24 |
rwp | darkeye, The standard answers when people ask "can I get something newer" are to look in backports, to upgrade to testing, to upgrade to unstable. In that order. | 06:10 |
rwp | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=lxqt&x=submit | 06:12 |
darkeye | rwp thanks | 06:12 |
rwp | So it looks like lxqt 1.0.0 released on 5-November just less than a week ago. That's bleeding edge stuff there! | 06:15 |
rwp | For something that new you would need to compile it from source. Just like the maintainers packaging it for unstable. | 06:15 |
brocashelm | i tested lxqt in ceres and it's fine | 06:36 |
brocashelm | too bad it also pulls pulseaudio | 06:36 |
darkeye | if I upgrade to ceres can I revert to chimaera again? | 09:06 |
N3utr1no | good morning | 09:33 |
Yonle | Morning~ | 09:38 |
djph | darkeye: I don't think "going backwards" is posible (or if it is, it's difficult) | 12:34 |
Yonle | quit | 14:00 |
neutral | (if [[ ! -e /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 && ${XDG_VTNR} == 1 ]]; then startx fi) | 14:07 |
neutral | this is what my .bash_profile looks like for login to tty1 | 14:07 |
neutral | in online they also check for (-z $DISPLAY). is this necessary | 14:07 |
neutral | hi | 14:10 |
LXGHTNXNG | Not much clarity on the Website so I will ask here. Does the armhf architecture support armv6l? | 14:59 |
UsL | LXGHTNXNG: check with the folks in #devuan-arm if no one responds here | 15:11 |
LXGHTNXNG | I'll take it no though. | 15:11 |
UsL | people in there build their own stuff, so no to your no until they answer. | 15:13 |
ShorTie | no LXGHTNXNG, Debian does not do armv6 | 15:14 |
LXGHTNXNG | Got it. | 15:14 |
neutral | (error running install command 'modprobe -i nvidia-current' for module nvidia: retcode 1) | 15:31 |
neutral | i have nvidia installed | 15:31 |
neutral | X runs fine although that error pops on every boot | 15:31 |
brocashelm | darkeye: from what i understand, if you decide to switch back to chimaera or daedalus (testing), the updates will have to be "slowly rolled out" for weeks/months at a time until all the dependencies can be safely met. otherwise, it's a pain to have to individually downgrade packages and correct further dependencies. you can either upgrade to newer builds in chimaera/daedalus over time (without updating ceres ever again) or do a clean install of | 15:34 |
brocashelm | chimaera for the safest routes (IMO) | 15:34 |
brocashelm | the good news is chimaera and ceres have been very close for the longest time in terms of package versions | 15:36 |
ascii`` | Hi there! I'm getting ssh login delays on a `chimaera` installation: pam_elogind(sshd:session): Failed to create session: Failed to activate service 'org.freedesktop.login1': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms). Do you know how to fix? | 16:07 |
nemo | are you really still on ascii? | 16:07 |
ascii`` | `busctl` says `org.freedesktop.login1 - - - (activatable) - - - ` | 16:07 |
nemo | oh. chimæra | 16:07 |
ascii`` | @nemo my nickname is ascii :D | 16:07 |
nemo | heh. just thought nick had meaning ☺ | 16:07 |
ascii`` | is has :D | 16:07 |
ascii`` | s/is/it/ | 16:08 |
nemo | ascii``: I realise all of these answers are systemd oriented, but in reading https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/239489/dbus-system-failed-to-activate-service-org-freedesktop-login1-timed-out it mentioned excess session files and out of memory which might be generically applicable | 16:10 |
nemo | esp since /run/systemd/ exists in devuan too | 16:10 |
nemo | hm. but not /system/ ... | 16:10 |
nemo | ascii``: (no idea, was just ducking for your error string) | 16:10 |
ascii`` | @nemo thanks let me investigate | 16:13 |
Afdal | hmm how does catfish get set to my file manager | 16:45 |
Afdal | that's not a file manager... | 16:45 |
used____ | busybox question: Beowulf has busybox installed, but it is not local-installed ( -l ). Is it used only for ramdisk rebuilding? | 17:41 |
used____ | -l == --install | 17:41 |
used____ | man busybox has no info on options -s and --install... | 17:43 |
used____ | -s softlinks applications and --install installs obviously, -s is needed with non root installs. | 17:45 |
used____ | I propose a "policing" script to find all programs which do not have a manpage and also those which have a --help option which lists options, where said options are not mentioned in the existing manpage. The latter is hard(er). | 18:38 |
used____ | The question is, who does one pester with the resulting list of missing manpages? | 18:39 |
blockhead | that's a thing a like about debian, and this devuan: somtimes the debian devs make man pages for programs that don't have them | 18:49 |
used____ | You mean they run commands like `$prog --help >/usr/man/man1/fake-$prog.1` ? No, that is not "make man pages" alas. | 18:50 |
used____ | It's just reformatting --help output. | 18:50 |
blockhead | that's not what i mean. but if you want to change the meaning of all i say, have yourself your own little conversation | 18:51 |
used____ | I apologize if I misunderstood. In my experience, all Debian provided manpages for other programs which come without, are rather worthless stubs, just --help output reformatted. | 18:51 |
used____ | Typical example: man xfce4 -> Xfce4 - NAME Sensors application for xfce4 ?! | 19:54 |
used____ | `xfce4-sensors -h` shows the same thing, and the "manpage" references this fact. | 19:55 |
used____ | man xfce4-screenshooter -> terse, send off to "full manual" under `info xfce4-screenshooter` which is ... a copy of the terse manual. | 20:29 |
used____ | Because the info pages are probably not installed | 20:29 |
used____ | A package called xfce.*doc-info does not exist. | 20:33 |
used____ | Arch has much more "info" -- I find I use Arch's wiki extensively to set up and get rid of annoyances in Beowulf at least. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xfce#Troubleshooting | 20:36 |
used____ | (some aspects of which are systemd contaminated -- need separate steps, f.ex. laptop lid switch) | 20:39 |
[NoClan]GoAway | greetings. I got some problem running Devuan 4.0 in a HVM enviroment. it's using up 99% CPU. when looking with "top", it's showing "xen-balloon" using up the CPU. | 20:50 |
used____ | :) | 20:51 |
[NoClan]GoAway | is this a known issue? since it's going away when reverting back to 3.1 | 20:51 |
[NoClan]GoAway | someone over on OFTC/#xen suggested it might be a kernel issue. | 20:51 |
used____ | The kernel is identical to Debian's, you could ask there? | 20:54 |
ascii`` | Feedback on my issue: commenting out `#session optional pam_elogind.so` in `/etc/pam.d/common-session` fixes the `pam_elogind(sshd:session): Failed to create session: Failed to activate service 'org.freedesktop.login1': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)` issue (delays connecting to SSH). Cheers :) | 20:55 |
[NoClan]GoAway | I thought of that, yet I didn't try the Debian one or any flavour of Debian since 2011 because of systemd ... that's why I ask here. | 20:56 |
used____ | https://forum.qubes-os.org/t/high-dom0-cpu-usage-by-xen-balloon/6732 last message >> [NoClan]GoAway -- this is not straight linux but similar | 20:56 |
[NoClan]GoAway | thanks, I'll have a look | 20:56 |
used____ | [NoClan]GoAway: you can usually use a Debian kernel as is on Devuan. Check version numbers and config identical. | 20:57 |
[NoClan]GoAway | andyhhp over on #xen linked this: https://lore.kernel.org/xen-devel/20211029142049.25198-1-jgross@suse.com/ | 20:57 |
used____ | Certain kernel versions seem to generate the high load. | 20:57 |
used____ | [NoClan]GoAway: what kernel do you have? The problem one? | 20:58 |
[NoClan]GoAway | nope, currently I'm running Beowulf 3.1 sinc the problem went away with this one. I'll check the 4.0 one...just a second... | 20:59 |
[NoClan]GoAway | I would've tried a PV version, but I haven't installed Devuan as a host currently, just wanted to check out if it would run as HVm for testing...as it does, yet with a slight problem ;) | 21:01 |
[NoClan]GoAway | 4.0 is running on kernel 5.10.0-9-amd64 | 21:03 |
[NoClan]GoAway | I started my tests two weeks ago, so I got the 4.0 and thought it was ok...well, it did install fine and it runs...yet it uses 99% of the cpu | 21:04 |
used____ | 5.4 is mentioned as having the problem in my link | 21:04 |
used____ | They suggest updating the kernel to 5.4.151 (out of tree...) | 21:04 |
[NoClan]GoAway | yeah, I stumbled on that about a minute ago...thanks again :) | 21:04 |
[NoClan]GoAway | well, upgrade it is then... | 21:22 |
neutral | fatal error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory | 21:50 |
neutral | 21:50 | |
neutral | help | 21:50 |
neutral | what is the package in devuan | 21:50 |
neutral | ? | 21:50 |
[NoClan]GoAway | maybe "libx11-dev"? | 21:59 |
jk | hello, I am having some system-freeze on a relatively fresh devuan (~2 months old) how can I debug this? newbie alarm :) | 22:14 |
sadoon_albader[m | Try seeing if there's any obvious errors is dmesg | 22:18 |
sadoon_albader[m | Also can you ssh into the machine when it freezes? Could be only a GPU freeze | 22:18 |
jk | i can't ssh to it.. | 22:21 |
jk | ehmm.. any hints on how to navigate the output of dmesg? like getting the time of the day each entry? | 22:23 |
jk | ... cheching man dmesg now ^^ | 22:23 |
lts | dmesg -T | 22:23 |
gnarface | jk: which video card? just because you can't ssh in afterwards doesn't mean it might not still be the GPU's fault | 23:17 |
_ds_ | jk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Netconsole may help | 23:18 |
gnarface | jk: *leading* cause of lock-ups is Nvidia's shitty driver support. | 23:18 |
gnarface | jk: (but sometimes just getting a different version of them fixes it) | 23:18 |
_ds_ | (it may provide useful log text) | 23:18 |
gnarface | hmm, bad timing though with there being no updates for it in chimaera-backports yet | 23:25 |
gnarface | you might get some extra log output in some cases (i forget exactly which, but this tip was directly Nvidia related) by adding no_console_suspend=1 to the kernel commandline | 23:27 |
gnarface | i forget if that only helped when the lockup was related to suspend/sleep states or nto | 23:28 |
gnarface | or not* | 23:28 |
gnarface | ("help" in this case though merely confirmed Nvidia's fault and the total lack of recourse) | 23:28 |
gnarface | note that there's also a time factor often | 23:29 |
gnarface | as in, when the GUI freezes up completely, in my experience with Nvidia hardware you have maybe 2-3 seconds to react and kill it before it locks up the whole system | 23:29 |
gnarface | if you have a ssh terminal attached already *before* that happens, often it can still retain enough control to figure out what caused it (in lieu of a power management problem it's often related to opengl stuff, particularly through Wine or Firefox) | 23:30 |
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