| malade_mental | I managed to solve my problem :) | 00:49 |
|---|---|---|
| malade_mental | locale-gen was crashing ... | 00:50 |
| malade_mental | maybe there is a bug though | 00:50 |
| FatPhil | should it be possible to run a persistent live-USB lubuntu inside a virtualbox in my devuan? the only tutorials I've come across so far imply that I have to create a virtual disk from the usb stick, which I don't want, I want to boot the lubuntu off the stick such that it thinks everything's booted normally. I just don't want to go through a hibernate, boot-to-lubuntu, do shit, shutdown, resume cycle | 12:25 |
| FatPhil | every time I want to do a particular distro-sensitive chore. | 12:25 |
| FatPhil | whilst leaving that option open, of course, as sometimes, I won't even want to do the chore on this machine, the live usb-key makes the chore very portable. | 12:26 |
| FatPhil | I don't reckon much for virtualbox's quality. It doesn't even exit the gui cleanly - the process won't even kill -9. dmesg says it did a GPF. Sounds like a job for aptitude purge. | 12:38 |
| DPA | I know it's possible with qemu / libvirt. I would expect it to be possible with others too, but I'm not sure how to do it. I usually prefer containers or chroots over full VMs for linux guests, though. | 12:40 |
| DPA | If you can't kill a process with kill -9, it may be in uninterruptable sleep. That can happen, for example, if it tries to read or write something, but the IO is stuck, and similar things. | 12:41 |
| FatPhil | I'm not tied to using virtualbox. Whatever's simplest. | 12:45 |
| FatPhil | google returns hits for ``live-usb qemu'' - will go do some reading | 12:46 |
| FatPhil | Will QEMU run native code at native speed? I'll be doing chores in a browser, that's slow enough already, I daren't have it any slower! | 12:51 |
| DPA | In theory, you can just check which /dev/sd* device it is, and then do "sudo chown $(id -u) /dev/sdX; kvm /dev/sdX". (Or qemu-system-x86_64 instead of kvm). It may not be very well optimized, though. | 12:52 |
| DPA | I think this would probably have quiet a bit of slow down. There are ways to tune it, but it can be a bit involved to find good settings. | 12:52 |
| FatPhil | installing QEMU presently - do I really need to install all the packages relevant to architectures I have no interest in? | 12:55 |
| gnarface | probably not | 12:56 |
| DPA | I think "apt-get install --no-install-recommends qemu-system-gui qemu-system-x86" is probably enough. | 12:57 |
| FatPhil | these look like they're hard depends, aptitude refuses to let me unselect them, and "fixes" things by putting them all back. | 12:58 |
| gnarface | you don't need libvirt stuff | 12:59 |
| FatPhil | one of my biggests complaints about debian is that package maintainers seem to just default to 'top level package brings in *all* deps'. | 13:00 |
| fsmithred | add --no-install-recommends | 13:00 |
| gnarface | qemu-system-common, qemu-system-data, qemu-system-x86, qemu-user-static, qemu-utils? | 13:00 |
| gnarface | you shouldn't need much more than these ^ | 13:00 |
| rrq | use "-cpu host -M pc,accel=kvm" for qemu to use native CPU | 13:00 |
| DPA | qemu-user-static is user emulation. Not needed for full emulation. | 13:01 |
| DPA | And I would expect qemu-system-x86 to pull in the rest it needs. | 13:01 |
| fsmithred | qemu-system-gui is nice to have. | 13:01 |
| FatPhil | looks like it's not in my distro (ascii, IIRC), there are other gui front ends it appears | 13:04 |
| DPA | Ascii is pretty old. I'm already upgrading to chimaera. | 13:05 |
| FatPhil | until last week, I was debian on this machine. I do intend to move this another step forward in due time. | 13:08 |
| DPA | The qemu gui thing may be included in another package in ascii, which probably gets pulled in automatically there with qemu-system-x86. | 13:08 |
| FatPhil | Ah, qemu started the boot, it got past the grub stage, but then halted on lack of memory. | 13:09 |
| fsmithred | add -m 1024 (or whatever) | 13:10 |
| FatPhil | OK, weird bootloader-related error messages are flashing up, but it seems to be making progress with the 1G I gave it. | 13:12 |
| DPA | It also supports units, like "-m 4G" | 13:13 |
| DPA | I think there also was an option somewhere for giving the VM more than 1 CPU, but I don't remember which one it was. | 13:16 |
| debdog | -smp X | 13:17 |
| debdog | wait... -cpu host -smp X | 13:18 |
| FatPhil | wondering if I should have run it from a virtual console rather than X. However, I do appear to now be in lubuntu... | 13:19 |
| fsmithred | I just use -smp without the '-cpu host'. Is there a difference? | 13:22 |
| debdog | hehe, can't remember, relying on my notes. trying to find that out atm... | 13:23 |
| onefang | I use -cpu host,spec-ctrl,ssbd,pdpe1gb,md-clear -smp 4,sockets=1,cores=4,threads=2,maxcpus=8 | 13:23 |
| onefang | The advantages of NOT using libvirt, you get more control, coz you can use ALL of the options. | 13:23 |
| onefang | Does require a lot of reading of the qemu docs. | 13:24 |
| debdog | host KVM processor with all supported host features | 13:25 |
| DPA | I actually find it easier to specify the related xml options in virsh than searching the qemu options. | 13:26 |
| onefang | That's the VM on my server. For the Android on my desktop I use -cpu max,topoext -smp 4,sockets=1,cores=4,threads=2,maxcpus=8 | 13:27 |
| onefang | It's only easier if libvirt actually supports those options. | 13:27 |
| DPA | For running a browser, specifying a decent graphics card may make sense. I've red virtio gpu is the best for non-windows guests, but I've not tried it and I think ascii doesn't support it yet. On my server, I used to have a windows VM with spice set up in libvirt. | 13:30 |
| FatPhil | first target is getting my host USB id-card reader visible inside the qemu. lsusb shows nothing, so I need to do some -usb chicanery. | 13:31 |
| onefang | The one I still haven't figured out yet is how to run my Android VM without it having to grab mouse and keyboard. Coz otherwise the mouse isn't moving 1 to 1 inside Android, and sometimes I can't mouse to the right edge. | 13:33 |
| FatPhil | the mouse was certainly almost uncontrollable here too, but there's probably settings to tweak. | 13:33 |
| FatPhil | ah, -cpu host complains "CPU model 'host' requires KVM" | 13:37 |
| DPA | Regular PS2 mouses use relative positioning. You need to emulate a mouse with absolute positioning, such as a tablet. Arch wiki has somathing about that: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/QEMU#Mouse_integration | 13:38 |
| debdog | -enable-kvm | 13:39 |
| onefang | I do have a tablet. | 13:40 |
| onefang | That only covers the mouse grabbing though, not the keyboard grabbing. | 13:41 |
| onefang | Arch docs are usually quite good though, so I'll read the rest of that. Except the systemd bit. | 13:42 |
| FatPhil | "Could not access KVM kernel module: No such file or directory" | 13:42 |
| debdog | possibly package qemu-kvm is required | 13:43 |
| debdog | but I am not certain about that | 13:43 |
| FatPhil | good call, it was absent... | 13:44 |
| debdog | hmm, it's a virtual package | 13:45 |
| FatPhil | still no worky. trace says open("/dev/kvm") is likely the failure - reboot needed? | 13:45 |
| debdog | package: qemu-system-x86 | 13:46 |
| debdog | is virtualisation in your BIOS emabled? | 13:47 |
| FatPhil | ewww, that I can't be sure of. sounds like rebooty time... | 13:48 |
| FatPhil | this freaking lenovo has the devil's own bios... | 13:48 |
| FatPhil | the kvm module was insmodded, according to lsmod though. one might have expected that to not load if its whole raison d'etre was impossible. | 13:49 |
| DPA | Are you in the kvm group? | 13:52 |
| DPA | You can check with "id" | 13:53 |
| DPA | To add it "sudo usermod -a -G kvm $(id -un)", and restart the session (logout and login). | 13:53 |
| DPA | (Technically, only the login part is needed) | 13:53 |
| FatPhil | well, the /dev/ node didn;t exist which is a bigger issue isn't it? | 13:54 |
| DPA | Yes | 13:54 |
| FatPhil | but I think kvm might be a red herring, I booted without -cpu host before, I can do that again. | 13:54 |
| DPA | It'll have to emulate the CPU in software without kvm. That'll slow things down a lot. | 13:56 |
| FatPhil | yeah, it is somewhat tragically slow presently. I'll check the USB id-card reader works first. that's the functionality I'm after. Everything after that is optimisation. | 13:59 |
| FatPhil | Ooooh, I notice the g/f's lappy has a /dev/kvm. But I don't want to diddle with her machine in her absence, I can try things on that later (we want the key bootable on various machines anyway, they all need to be tested in turn) | 14:02 |
| DPA | I'd suspect the bios them too. | 14:06 |
| DPA | *then | 14:06 |
| FatPhil | hmm, lsusb in guest only lists a hub, not the id card reader. | 14:09 |
| debdog | never done this before, mayhap this helps: https://qemu.weilnetz.de/doc/3.1/qemu-doc.html#usb_005fdevices | 14:11 |
| FatPhil | looks like the command line switches have changed over time, I'm using the equivalent syntax from my manpage | 14:13 |
| FatPhil | -usbdevice=host:bus.addr or -usbdevice=host:vendor:priduct | 14:14 |
| debdog | oh, right. depends on qemu version: https://qemu.weilnetz.de/doc/ | 14:14 |
| FatPhil | libusbouldn't open USB device /dev/bus/...: permission denied. And indeed, that dev node is 664 root.root | 14:21 |
| FatPhil | +dropped characters | 14:21 |
| FatPhil | just added a udev rule, and the message didn't appear so far... I know nothing about udev though, so more luck than judgement. | 14:50 |
| FatPhil | ooh-ooh-ooh - lsusb shows it in the guest - right, let's fire up the browser... | 14:54 |
| FatPhil | woop woop! id card reader worked in guest OS! Everything after this is cherries on top! | 15:04 |
| FatPhil | Thanks for the pointers. I still have lots to work out, but first maybe I'll do some real work. | 15:06 |
| onefang | Sooo, that Arch QEMU page suggested "-usb -device usb-tablet", which is deprecated but works on Beowulf. The man page says to use "-device usb-tablet" instead, but that gives an error. "-usbdevice tablet" also works. "-device virtio-mouse-pci" is what I was using before, works, but grabs the mouse. Just a reminder, "works" for me means the mouse works and is not grabbed. | 15:58 |
| onefang | Seems to also be 1 to 1 for mouse movement, but I should use it for a long time to see if there's no tiny amount of creeping that adds up over time. | 15:59 |
| onefang | Bonus, the keyboard isn't grabbed anymore either. Now if I can just convince Android not to map the Windows key to "back", then I can use my Windows key for the various window manager things I taught it, without Android backing up on me. | 16:06 |
| Guest923 | hello | 17:08 |
| Guest923 | do you sell full disc sets of devuan like exist for debian | 17:08 |
| Guest923 | ie so you can install fully offline? | 17:08 |
| Guest923 | do you have the same for source? | 17:08 |
| fluffywolf | I don't think anyone sells devuan dvds, no. You could probably use a single devuan dvd plus a debian set as long as you set your sources.list correctly. | 17:11 |
| Guest923 | fluffywolf: does the devuan dvd contain all the devuan changes? | 17:12 |
| Guest923 | also is there a devuan sources iso also? | 17:12 |
| Guest923 | (code sources). I like to have everything in """"""hard CopY""""""" and offline | 17:13 |
| Guest923 | I know only insane schizos use dvds, cds, blu-ray, books, etc anymore | 17:13 |
| Guest923 | but that's what I want | 17:13 |
| fluffywolf | I'm not sure. You'll have to wait until one of the people who maintain such things come online. | 17:14 |
| fluffywolf | and I need to head off to work. bbl. | 17:14 |
| Guest923 | what if they're all dead by now? | 17:14 |
| Guest923 | I mean: I never see them online | 17:14 |
| Guest923 | what if they had a heart attack? | 17:14 |
| fsmithred | if we're all dead, then you're screwed. | 17:20 |
| fsmithred | jessie forever! | 17:21 |
| Guest923 | fsmithred: I'm still on debian 7 on many computers | 17:23 |
| Guest923 | my main programming laptop for instance | 17:23 |
| fsmithred | I still have one wheezy server | 17:23 |
| Guest923 | fsmithred: alot of people would say you are a conspiracy theorist for that and should be imprisoned | 17:23 |
| Guest923 | like all the people who won't be getting the vaccine in austria will be soon (fines and imprisonment) | 17:24 |
| Guest923 | unless they shoot the police dead | 17:24 |
| Guest923 | fsmithred: so when the police show up at your door for eunning a wheezy server | 17:24 |
| * FatPhil runs a uname -a, and sees the same '2.6.28' he's seen for over a decade... | 17:24 | |
| Guest923 | what will you do? | 17:24 |
| fsmithred | not conspiracy. Third-party software that won't work with newer releases. | 17:25 |
| Guest923 | fsmithred: sounds alot like the vaccines... | 17:25 |
| Guest923 | 3rd party software that won't work with newer releases... | 17:25 |
| Guest923 | I noticed that RMS started the FS movement because he was miffed about code run on a fridge sized printer | 17:26 |
| Guest923 | but now he's "ok" with closed firm ware "if you can't modify it" | 17:26 |
| Guest923 | but that's what the crusade started about in the first place? | 17:26 |
| Guest923 | why is he inconsistent? | 17:26 |
| Guest923 | is it because he's 70? | 17:27 |
| fsmithred | take it to OT please | 17:28 |
| fsmithred | #devuan-offtopic | 17:28 |
| Guest923 | fsmithred: you noted that the safty filter doesn't work if you aren't doing online install | 17:29 |
| onefang | BTW, fsmithred IS one of the Devuan developers. B-) | 17:42 |
| Guest923 | onefang: I fixed bastille linux hardening script a year ago to work with devuan | 17:43 |
| Guest923 | onefang: submitted it to Bruce Perens as I know he works with you guys | 17:44 |
| [NoClan]GoAway | nice...someone still runs Jessie...and ther I thought I'm the only insane one running Debian Squeeze for ten and a half years on my xen machine plus VM's ^^ | 17:52 |
| [NoClan]GoAway | *there | 17:52 |
| fsmithred | don't fix it if it isn't broke | 17:54 |
| [NoClan]GoAway | yeah, that's what I say, too. yet stuff stops working over time, like browsers and openvpn clients... | 17:58 |
| [NoClan]GoAway | I did some self-compiling for openvpn, but it only lasted for two years, and the newer version throw erros upon compiling... | 17:58 |
| [NoClan]GoAway | too much of a hassle now | 17:58 |
| fsmithred | don't go online with 10-year-old browsers! | 18:00 |
| [NoClan]GoAway | well, they are linux VM's, no connection between all of them, or at least the two who are running a GUI. but as I said, the browsers are worth sh**, so no harm done ;) | 18:02 |
| Hunter[m] | <fsmithred> "don't go online with 10-year-old..." <- *me using Konqueror in Trinity Desktop* Ummm.. this is awkward | 18:46 |
| FatPhil | Am I missing SDL packages needed to run QEMU in the console - I have libsdl1 and libsdl2, but QEMU's saying "Could not initialise SDL(No available video device)" | 18:51 |
| jonadab | fsmithred: Don't worry, I only use Lynx and NCSA Mosaic. | 18:59 |
| * fsmithred misses mosaic | 19:13 | |
| FatPhil | I remember the 2nd version of mosaic, the one whose image support was limited to clicking on the icon, and it spawning xv or similar. c.1993. | 20:03 |
| jonadab | Hmm, memories from that far back are a little fuzzy, but I *think* Mosaic showed images inline by the time I used it. | 20:08 |
| jonadab | (My college switched to Netscape Navigator, I think version 2, a few months later.) | 20:09 |
| jonadab | (This would've been late '93 or early '94.) | 20:10 |
| [NoClan]GoAway | god, I feel old now :/ | 20:24 |
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