libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2021-11-24

gnarfaceis there a way to disable pageflipping for the open-source amdgpu driver without restarting xorg?02:18
gnarfacei think i've asked this before and the answer was no, but i'm wondering if it has changed02:33
adhocgnarface: why? (uneducated in such things)02:36
gnarfaceattempting to debug a steam remote play bug that mirrors a nvidia bug but i'm too lazy to restart to test it02:38
gnarfacethe nvidia drivers provide a nvidia-settings tool that allows you to toggle AllowFlipping on/off on the fly, amongst other things02:39
gnarfacei recall hearing there was an equivalent ATi tool back in the catalyst and pre-catalyst days02:39
gnarfacebut only ever for their non-free drivers02:39
gnarfacei wonder if it could be disabled on a per-program basis with an environment variable like vblank_mode?02:41
gnarfacethe amdgpu man page lists xorg configs but not such environment variables02:41
adhocah, ok02:44
* adhoc has not had to deal with this stuff since setting mode lines manually 02:45
adhocerm ... last millenia02:46
malade_mental[NoClan]GoAway: feeling old? isn't that normal on a channel aimed at veteran unix admins :P08:37
malade_mental(on IRC...)08:37
AfdalHow do you use apt to check not what libraries a package depends on, but rather what packages a given library is a dependency of?08:53
jason1234hello09:09
jason1234how to install meet.jitsi server on ascii devuan? apt-get?????09:10
jason1234malade_mental: for people that cannot bare systemd killer09:11
jason1234salut09:11
malade_mental<^_^>09:33
avihhi, i noticed that the minimal-live iso (4.0) doesn't have the "devuan" user at suduers, and that network dhcp is not started automatically. while both are trivial to enable via root login, i think it would help if the iso boots with those too already in effect, similar to the desktop-live image09:46
avihthose two*09:46
avihfwiw, other than the desktop-live having these two, the debian-minimal-live iso also have them enabled out of the box09:49
avihalso, it would be nice if README.txt at the download dir would list the devuan/root users and their password (because it doesn't login automatically, so it's hard to know which user to choose). e.g. this file https://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/devuan/devuan_chimaera/README.txt09:50
luna-is-herejason1234: Did you try to follow this guide <https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/devops-guide-quickstart>?09:50
FatPhilI know this is a bit of a bikeshedding question, but in my qemu of a live-USB stick, what's the "neatest" way to ensure my luser account has rw perms on the appropriate /dev/sd? Add me to a group? udev rule? simply sudo chown/chmod in a wrapper script that calls qemu? other better ideas?11:03
djphFatPhil: in the VM, or ... what?11:28
adhoc/etc/rc.local script ?11:33
gnarfaceFatPhil: make a new group and a udev rule that assigns that group to a particular drive12:09
gnarfacewell, depends on the disk i guess, since you could alternately just add the user's own permission to the mounted directory or some subdirectory thereof, but then you need something else to mount it12:11
FatPhilgnarface: it's not for mounting, it's a raw boot image for qemu. Is it possible to teach udev to recognise individual usb keys, so only the ubuntu live-usb gets the special group?12:22
gnarfaceyes12:25
FatPhilharumph, qemu's still complaining, so I can't -host cpu, this time it's "could not access KVM module: Permission denied"12:28
FatPhilI went into the bios and turned on intel's virtualisation. The kernel has kvm and kvm_intel modules loaded, and /dev/kvm exists, unlike yesterday's attempts.12:29
gnarfacethere's a known issue with some motherboards where you have to also ivrs_ioapic[something... on the kernel command-line, but you do also have to have access to /dev/kvm12:30
gnarfacesome bioses report them wrong so you have to specify the right ones12:31
FatPhilannoyingly dmesg doesn't mention kvm at all by name12:31
FatPhilgrep -i virt yields: "Booting paravirtualized kernel on bare hardware"12:33
FatPhilstracing qemu, I couldn't see the syscall that was bringing about the failure.12:37
FatPhilyesterday, it was easy, there was an open("/dev/kvm") that failed, but I don't see that today.12:37
gnarfaceyou need to look up how to get it to spit out the values you need for ivrs_ioapic[]=12:39
gnarfacei just forget what the trick was12:39
gnarfacei think it might show up in POST12:40
FatPhilPOST's a nightmare on this machine, it seems to hop unpredictably between about 3 different BIOSes. (Lenovo x240)12:42
brocashelmon ceres, i noticed apt version 2.3.12 won't show the "yes, do as i say" prompt for removing essential packages anymore (replaced by an error message, instead)13:15
brocashelmyou'd have to resolve the problems manually13:15
KittyJust installed a new machine, apt-get install nftables,18:29
Kittybut there's no /etc/init.d/nftables18:30
Kittywhat am I missing ?18:30
Kittycp /usr/share/doc/nftables/examples/sysvinit/nftables.init /etc/init.d18:40
Kittyupdate-rc.d nftables defaults18:40
Kittythat's what I was missing18:40
used____Why switching to nftables? I am still on iptables20:53
[NoClan]GoAwaymalade_mental: seems I didn't read the channel description. I merely felt nostalgic reading about ancient browsers and the years mentioned with them ;)21:09
phoggused____: nftables is the new hotness. If you don't have any issues with the iptables command line interface there's not much reason to stop using it.22:13
used____I know it is the new hotness, I asked why ;)22:13
phoggused____: the big headline items are mostly important for people with large rulesets22:14
phoggan easier config language is pretty nice, though22:14
used____phogg: you can't scare me, I did cisco and junos configs. Shudder. Not anymore.22:16
phoggiptables is pretty nice, IMO, but nft is nicer22:16
phoggthe down side is I have had iptables stuff memorized for decades22:16
used____Heh yes. Muscle memory.22:17
phoggthe benefits are slight unless you really need atomic updates and whatnot22:17
used____Does nftables support the no-brainer /etc/init.d/iptables save / flush / load ?22:17
phoggit could be set up to work that way. To be fair even iptables doesn't do that, it's a distro choice22:18
phoggRed Hat has some weird-ass thing for that22:18
onefangHelps to learn the new hotness, coz when the next new hotness arrives, the old hotness might get dropped.  Sound and firewall, make up your fucking minds Linux devs.22:21
phoggIn the case of sound I learned then discarded pulseaudio, because it was solving the problem the wrong way. I made a similar choice with systemd (except a bit less learning before discarding).22:21
phoggFortunately pipewire is 99% compatible with pulseaudio, so if you learned that then you're still mostly OK.22:22
phoggthe firewall honestly has not changed often. There have only ever been 3 and the new one is entirely compatible with the last one. Pretty good story.22:22
onefangI think pipewire is the new audio hotness?  I'm still on pulseaudio, it's always "just worked" for me.  Is pipewire on Devuan Beowulf or later better?22:23
phoggof course I am now suffering from having never really used pulse because I can't figure out how to troubleshoot pipewire-in-pulse-mode issues22:24
phoggonefang: not sure, I am tracking pipewire master myself22:24
phoggI say tracking, more like playing with it. I have real need for it even today, but it sure is cool.22:24
onefangI much prefer sticking to what ever the distro supplies, plus a few extra apt repos for really important stuff.  Makes updating everything trivial.22:25
phoggdisconnecting mechanism and policy? What a crazy concept! Not assuming there will be a GNOME systray applet available to configure it? Madness itself.22:25
phoggthis has kind of veered into more social chatter so I'll stop there22:25
used____I can't wait for the food fight between systemd controlling shutdown priority and gnome doing the same.22:26
onefangThat's why I added the "Is pipewire on Devuan Beowulf or later better?" question, to keep it on topic.  B-)22:26
phoggonefang: ah, well, to keep it topical as well: I would *love* to talk with anyone using pipewire on devuan (any version)22:26
phoggmost of the docs are sparse or heavily rely on "first start this systemd service"22:27
phoggI can get as far as having pipewire running and pulse clients happily connecting and acting like they work, but not as far as getting audio out.22:27
phoggMy trouble is I don't just want it to work, I want to thoroughly understand how the plumbing works so I can hand-craft a setup tailored to my own tastes.22:29
phoggI can walk backwards or forwards through most any OSS, alsa, or jack audio problems and I need to be able to do that in this brave new world.22:29
FatPhilworrying thing since I upgraded from debian to devuan a few days ago - every time I leave the laptop idle for a long period (several hours, say, not really happened enough to narrow it down) it locks up and refuses to wake up again. I can't even SSH in to see what's happening. Hardware's still alive, the keyboard lights can be turned on/off, and Fn lock can be toggled.22:36
FatPhilI can upgrade to a less ancient devuan, i guess, I'm oldstable now I think.22:37
phoggFatPhil: sounds like a hibernation issue to me. I always disable all sleep/hibernate just so I don't have to deal with it.22:37
phoggnewer kernels tend to be have more fixes in them, so upgrading is always good22:37
FatPhilI don't have anything automatic, PM-wise, more than screen blanking.22:38
FatPhilThe old debian never had any issues at all, alas, so the more modern kernel is being correlated with this brokenness.22:39
phoggFatPhil: it's probably doing something automatically which was not happening before22:39
FatPhilHibernation itself mostly works fine. I've been rebooting into a usb-stick a lot recently, and just hibernate devuan when I want to that. (hence my attempts to get qemu running natively)22:40
rwpFatPhil, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key might be useful to debug your system after it has locked up.22:47
rwpIt does seem likely that it is suspending and failing at that time.22:48

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