libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2018-06-23

andrazcan anyone help me with something driver related00:31
freemdo not ask the permission to ask, just do it :)00:31
andrazwait let me find the thing00:32
freemotherwise, you'll have to ask the permission to ask the permission to ask, etc :)00:32
freemhum, Debian have 2.3, but the neg distances seems to be be always positives?00:32
freemwhich, in a way, makes sense.... a distance is always positive in my mind.00:33
freemwrong channel00:34
andrazJun 22 09:58:21 Loki kernel: [    8.589739] [drm] Loading tahiti Microcode00:37
andrazJun 22 09:58:21 Loki kernel: [    8.590185] radeon 0000:01:00.0: firmware: failed to load radeon/tahiti_pfp.bin (-2)00:37
andrazJun 22 09:58:21 Loki kernel: [    8.590252] radeon 0000:01:00.0: Direct firmware load for radeon/tahiti_pfp.bin failed with error -200:37
andrazim gettting this00:37
freemandraz, what do the command " dpkg --get-selections | grep firmware" gives you?00:38
andrazhow do i set X to use xserver-xorg-video-ati00:39
andrazits an older card00:40
andrazr9 280x00:40
freemin theory, X11 should use the best driver available.However, I must say that I also have problems with this on AMD/ATI gpu at work00:40
andrazhaha :)00:40
andrazsomebody at this channel suggested that i set x to use the ati driver provided with linux00:41
andrazbut that was a month ago00:41
freemI guess glxinfo | grep LLVM gives you results?00:41
msiismandraz: what's "Loki"?00:41
andrazmsiism: hostname :)00:42
sauronandraz: obvious question - do you have that file available to be loaded?00:42
gnarfacemsiism: Norse mythological god of mischief as well as the name of the first defunct Linux game publisher00:42
sauronand what debian version (what does 'lsb_release -a' say)00:43
gnarfaceandraz: just to be clear, your error says it's missing specific firmware, which confirms is indeed missing from ascii but not jessie (not sure why though)00:44
andrazDistributor ID:Devuan00:44
andrazDescription:Devuan GNU/Linux unstable (ceres)00:44
gnarfacethat tahiti_pfp.bin file should be in firmware-linux-nonfree, but all the firmware files got deleted from that pacakge after jessie for some reason... wtf...00:44
freemsauron, lsb-release is only a recommended package. Better to refer to /etc/apt/sources.list imho00:44
sauronthey moved00:44
andrazah :)00:45
sauronfirmware-amd-graphics is the new package00:45
andrazthanks will try that one00:45
sauronit's a dependecy of firmware-linux-nonfree, so it should have been dragged in00:45
gnarfaceandraz: and, in answer to your other question, you would make a custom xorg.conf (now optional) to override the driver choice, but you should test this to make sure just installing the firmware won't work00:45
gnarfaceit *may* also get the wrong driver, but often doesn't, and that's not what it's complaining about right now anyway00:46
saurona custom xorg.conf is best avoided unless you really need one...00:46
sauronthe autodetection is pretty decent these days00:46
sauronIt has been (thank god) quite a while since I've had to sit down and work out a modeline with a calculator00:47
gnarfacei still have to do it all the time because i use weird displays00:47
sauronyeah, that's a thing00:47
gnarfacebut i agree that it should be tested to ensure it's not working before giving up on it00:47
sauronwhat display still needs that though?00:47
freemhow weird can your displays be, gnarface?00:47
sauronfixed frequency always used to be a big onw00:48
gnarfacefreem: it still tends to do badly with certain display types, and when you have multiple displays of mismatched sizes00:48
sauronyeah, multiple dissimilar is painful00:48
gnarfacefreem: ("certain display types" being old CRTs or new projectors)00:49
sauronbut if you do that, I guess they figure you are prepared for the pain :-)00:49
andrazany repo from which i could get that firmware-amd-graphics package00:49
freemgnarface, maybe different CPUs? I've had some problems wih taht, had to tinker with multiple instances of i3...00:49
sauronandraz: just download it from
andrazthanks :)00:49
gnarfacewait he's on beowulf?00:50
sauronactually you'll want
gnarfaceno wait00:50
gnarfacei don't think that's the right one00:50
freemI'll have to redo this as soon as I'll have enough money to buy a true computer, I guess00:50
gnarfaceare you on devuan ascii?00:51
sauronits all arch indep firmware, so the debian testing package should be fine on devuan and debian, AFAICT00:51
sauronhe said ceres00:51
gnarfacewell he should use the sid one then00:51
andrazdpkg: error processing archive firmware-amd-graphics_20170823-1_all.deb (--install):00:52
andraz installing firmware-amd-graphics would break firmware-linux-nonfree, and00:52
andraz deconfiguration is not permitted (--auto-deconfigure might help)00:52
andrazim sorry for being a pest00:52
fsmithredsame one as sid should be in ceres00:52
freemwhat is the devuan sid's name?00:52
sauronceres == sid00:52
andrazi have to remove firmware non-free and install this one and it will work00:52
sauronbeowulf -==buster00:52
sauronandraz: I suspect they will both co-exist00:52
sauronif you have to remove one, I'd also install the non graphics ones00:53
andrazhere goes nothing :)00:53
andrazi dont think i will be needing any other firmware packages00:54
andrazgoing to reboot and see if it works00:55
andrazthanks a million00:55
gnarfacei'm really leery about you guys giving out debian download links00:55
gnarfaceeven when the packages are supposed to be identical there's a couple cases where they could corrupt devuan's dependency tree00:55
gnarfaceyou should really be making an effort to find the proper download link from a devuan mirror00:55
gnarface(i know they don't have a nice searchable interface yet, sorry about that)00:56
andrazfirmware loaded and working00:57
gnarfacecool, no custom xorg conf needed00:57
andrazi mean the bin file00:57
andraznope :)00:58
gnarfacetest opengl or anything yet?00:58
andrazwill try something with wine now00:58
gnarfaceno no00:58
gnarfacewine is a terrible first test00:58
gnarfaceit's got too many of it's own problems00:58
freemprobably better to check glxinfo first00:58
gnarfaceget the mesa-utils package and test with glxgears and the like00:58
gnarfaceyea, glxgears, glxinfo00:58
gnarfacethere's a couple others in there00:59
freemglxgears is worse than wine for testing, it just says nothing00:59
gnarfaceyou can easily use it to test whether hardware acceleration is working00:59
gnarfaceand there's little else that can go wrong with it00:59
gnarfaceit's WAY better than wine for isolating opengl problems00:59
gnarface9 times out of 10 when wine doesn't work it looks like an opengl problem but it's some other bizarre rat's nest01:00
gnarfaceioquake3 would be also a good baseline test if you have valid map files to use01:00
freemglxgears won't show if GPU hardware accel is on, since it's capped to 60 FPS, that any CPU can do01:00
gnarfacethat's false, freem01:00
gnarfaceit's only capped at 60 if you don't unset vsync01:00
gnarfacedefault-on vsync is what caps it at 6001:00
freembut, by default, it is, right?01:00
andrazwell :)01:00
andrazi have to use wine01:00
gnarface  vblank_mode=0 glxgears01:01
andrazsince, there is a windows game i would like to play01:01
gnarfacethat disables it^01:01
freemwhich means, the right command is not just "glxgears"01:01
andrazand even before the driver was loaded it worked01:01
andrazjust got artefacts01:01
andraznow fps is lower than before the driver is loaded and more artefacts :)01:02
gnarfaceandraz: run `vblank_mode=0 glxgears` and then `glxinfo |grep 'direct rendering\|opengl version' -i`01:02
gnarfaceglxgears will fall back to software rendering if it can't get hardware accel01:03
gnarfacethis glxinfo command will tell you if it's supposed to be working though, and the glxears command, run this way to disable vsync, should have an obvious boost in framerate corresponding to no longer being in software mode01:03
gnarfaceit varies with hardware age, but even on stuff 5 years old it's usually 2-3 orders of magnitude difference01:04
andrazwhat package must i install01:04
gnarfacemesa-utils like i said01:04
andrazoh sorry, must have missed that line01:04
gnarfaceyou check all that then you KNOW that opengl hardware acceleration is working01:05
gnarfaceand then you won't be shooting in the dark if you run into problems with wine01:05
gnarface(spoiler alert; everyone runs into problems with wine)01:06
andrazroot@Loki:/home/andraz/Desktop/fglrx-15.302# glxinfo |grep 'direct rendering\|opengl version' -i01:06
andrazdirect rendering: Yes01:06
andrazOpenGL version string: 3.0 Mesa 18.0.401:06
andrazseems to be working :)01:06
freemI agree. But, glxgears test in only useful with vblank_mode=0 otherwise it's useless.01:06
andrazits running01:06
andrazquite nicely01:07
gnarfacelooks as expected01:07
gnarfacewine might object to seeing OpenGL version 301:07
sauronhow old is the gfx card?01:07
gnarfacesome games anyway01:07
andrazits from 201301:07
sauronfrom curiosity01:07
gnarfacethere's some environment variable to make mesa report whatever OpenGL version you might want though01:08
andrazwell it was released back then01:08
sauronmy glxgears (on integrated intel gfx) does 11k fps01:08
andrazi bought a used one01:08
andraza couple of months ago01:08
sauronah, 2013 probably makes sense for 3k01:08
gnarfaceit's a little borderline... software accel can be that fast on modern cpus01:08
gnarfacei'm getting about 28k01:09
freemsauron: 11K fps on integrated intel? Which CPU?01:09
andrazim running a game with wine at the same time01:09
gnarfaceoh, well that would slow it down01:09
gnarfaceso wine is working?01:09
sauron i7-5775C (broadwell)01:09
andrazyes, wine is working01:09
andrazim just getting fuzzy graphics01:10
andrazbut that is another story all together01:10
fleekyanything to watch out for when upgrading to 2.0?01:10
andrazthank you for all the help01:10
andrazi taught i could dicth windows :)01:10
gnarfacefleeky: yea, none of the blizzard games work anymore in versions less than i think 3.701:10
andraznew hardware will help me do that01:10
sauronfreem: that cpu was bought with a view to decent gfx performance without the bother of a discrete card01:11
fleekyso server wise not so much ?01:11
sauronI don't game much, but do a reasonable bit of photo processing, so moving pixels was important :-)01:11
gnarfacefleeky: oh, you meant devuan 2.0 not wine 2.0, sorry i was confused :)01:11
gnarfacethere was some package dependency circle that had to be manually broken with regards to the udev->eudev switchover and some polkit backend or something like that.  i think they got it fixed though.01:12
fleekygnarface: do you run photoshop in wine?01:12
gnarfaceno, i chucked that one overboard for Gimp just after 6.001:12
andrazone more question if anyone could help, if i lower the resolution in a game to lowest the gpu is used fairly litle, so artefacts should not be visible01:13
andrazif present on highest possible resolution01:13
gnarfacefleeky: it's really not any more capable of an image editor. what you're really paying that $600 price tag for is the commercial plugins.01:13
gnarfaceand they ARE nice, i'll admit01:13
gnarfacebut i didn't need any of them to actually get work done01:14
freemandraz, AFAIK, artifacts may not be caused by performances, but may be by differences in how stuff are computed between various drivers01:14
gnarfaceif you can get over the indignity of all the menus being different, you can get by with Gimp (they're fully customizable anyway)01:14
andrazfreem: my previous gpu was overheating and artifacts were showing at 1920x1080 and not at 800x60001:15
gnarfaceandraz: do you know about wine's "virtual desktop" feature?  saves my ass in a lot of games01:15
freemwell, I said, this "may" :)01:15
andrazboth ati gpu01:15
gnarfaceandraz: you should check the air cirulation in that case if you're getting overheating....01:16
andrazgnarface: i will check for it :)01:16
gnarfacein winecfg, you can just tell it to make a window of arbitrary resolution that it will tell the game to use as the desktop01:17
freemmaybe the stuff between the chip and the heater is no longer stable, too... hum... I really should learn english more01:17
freemthermal paste? :/01:17
andrazi hope its not the paste01:18
gnarfacesometimes the cheap stuff wears out, but the usual cause is dead fans or dust-clogged vents/fins01:18
andrazit has been replaced 2 months ago01:18
andrazand the card is running 24/7 direct3d on windows01:19
freemok, it's named thermal grease, it seems01:19
andrazbut the temperatures never go beyond 60 degrees celsius01:19
andrazexcept when i run furmark01:19
andrazwhich works on linux too \o/01:19
freemdirectX and openGL are not the same things01:20
andrazactually there is a native liunx version of it since long ago i think01:20
andraznono furmark i think uses opengl01:20
freemon both linux and windows versiions?01:20
andrazi think so01:21
freemand you have the artifacts only on linux? Not on any other OS you tried.01:25
andrazeven with the previous graphics card i had artefacts on linux only01:25
freem(I mean, on the same computer=01:25
andrazon windows it runs nicely01:25
andrazwithout any distortion01:26
andrazbut i guess i made a dumb choice when buying the gpu01:26
andraznext time i will go nvidia01:26
freemconsidering the numbers you gave, I suppose `glxinfo | grep LVM` gives nothing?01:26
andraz    Device: AMD TAHITI (DRM 2.50.0 / 4.15.0-2-amd64, LLVM 6.0.0) (0x6798)01:27
andrazOpenGL renderer string: AMD TAHITI (DRM 2.50.0 / 4.15.0-2-amd64, LLVM 6.0.0)01:27
freemmaybe with grep -i, would be better01:27
freemnot that stupid LLVM pipe 0.4 that I have when debian decides to provide me a buggy driver... I guess it's ok on that then01:28
freembasically, I've never had any problems not caused by myself on GPUs when using nvidia proprietary stuff. When trying to use AMD-related GPUs, I've only had problems.01:29
freemmaybe I'm too dumb to use AMD drivers.01:29
DocScrutinizer05maybe interesting:
andrazblast :\01:35
andrazcould be the new wine01:35
gnarfaceandraz: can you screenshot these graphical distortions you're talking about?01:35
andraztried to01:35
gnarfacethey don't appear in screenshots?01:36
andrazbut its hard to get any :)01:36
gnarfacehard to get any, or impossible?01:36
gnarfaceif you're getting graphical artifacts that won't actually appear in a screenshot (rather than are just difficult to catch) that narrows down the possible problems quite a bit01:36
freemDocScrutinizer, nice text.01:36
freemlike a screen problem? But then, the artifacts would not appear on windows?01:37
freems/not //g01:37
andrazthey appear sporadically01:38
andrazi think it has something to do with how the game is coded01:39
andrazanyways its pathofexile01:39
gnarfacewell it probably is a combination of problems but without a visual aid we can only guess01:40
andrazill try to do something :)01:40
gnarfacehowever graphical corruption that refuses to appear in a screenshot may be related to the compositor's confict with the driver rather than the game01:40
gnarfacesee if you can recreate it in any other opengl programs too, or if it's literally ONLY path of exile01:41
gnarfacegot a camera phone?  maybe you can snap a picture of the screen01:41
freemmaybe a video could make it easier to catch artifacts?01:42
freemI meant, a software video01:42
gnarfaceif a video would trigger them01:42
gnarfaceit's not clear now if it would01:42
freemthen, maybe a combo of software video and external video could help understanding?01:42
gnarfacethat would be ideal really01:43
andrazno, i use dump phones only :)01:43
andrazwithout cameras01:43
andrazi used recordmydesktop01:44
gnarfacebased on only the description, it could even be a symptom of hardware failure, but that type of hardware failure *usually* isn't isolated to misbehavior in just linux or just one game01:44
andrazi hope not :)01:44
gnarfaceyou mentioned overheating before too though, and that can also cause hardware misbehavior01:45
andrazim running furmark alongside it01:45
andrazand in furmark i get no artifacts01:45
gnarfaceeven when it's not permanent damage, a video card operating out of spec temperature will often exhibit rendering anomalies01:45
gnarfacebut if furmark is also an opengl program, that would seem to suggest this is a problem with the game itself01:46
andrazback to windows :\01:46
gnarfacewait we didn't even try MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=3.3 yet01:46
andrazsilly thing i payed for a licence just to play 1 single game :)01:46
gnarfaceor MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=4.5 or wahtever01:46
gnarfaceif you're only having problems with that one game, maybe it's because mesa is reporting opengl 3.0 which is ancient.01:47
gnarfacefind out the latest version the card actually supports and set that01:48
freemandraz, you also paid 40Gib of wasted space for that game :)01:48
andrazits only 12gig01:49
freemoh. I was speaking about the 40Gib used by windows01:49
andrazwasted my ssd that os :)01:49
freemI doubt that windows only takes 12Gib haha01:50
andrazim not sure what microsoft is doing01:50
andrazwindows 2000 only took 300mb01:50
andrazand no functionality was added01:50
freemIIRC, most of the space is because MS keeps copy of all DLLs to avoid DLLhell01:51
andrazthat is the only good windows version in my oppinion01:51
andrazoh yeah01:51
freemnow, not only not a lot was added, but also, useful features were removed.01:51
DocScrutinizer05freem: not only a nice text, also a great initiative01:51
andrazit stores all installations in the windows folder :)01:51
andrazfor every piece of ms software on the system01:52
DocScrutinizer05Andrw really tries hard giving back to community01:52
freemyep. And a debian takes only 3Gib with a lot more softwares installed.01:52
freemDocScrutinizer, that's good to learn.01:53
DocScrutinizer05I think I hardly ever met a guy so dedicated to make the internet and the world at large a better place01:53
freemyou met him?01:53
DocScrutinizer05well, not in person01:54
DocScrutinizer05had chats with him01:54
freemI have to say, I can see other problems with "tools" like slack that he didn't mention, but hey, only a poweruser could see those01:55
freemand poweruserss were probably not the targer of his article :)01:55
DocScrutinizer05umm, why not?01:56
freembecause, usually, powerusers know about more that one tool to do something as basic as to communicate with other people over the internet01:57 is not about a tool01:57
DocScrutinizer05at least not only01:57
freembut the article is more about IRC itself, no?01:58
DocScrutinizer05university on IRC01:59
DocScrutinizer05FOSS for IRC01:59
freemSounded like a huge "thank you" to the people that maintain and keep IRC alive, to me.01:59
freem(and, I share that TY btw)01:59
DocScrutinizer05funding freenode was not enough ;-)01:59
DocScrutinizer05and snoonet and whatnot else02:00
freemwell, this protocol really is just great, for it's simplicity.02:00
DocScrutinizer05I think it's more about the community at large than about the technical protocol02:01
freemhe is true: I could be black, white, yellow, green, male, female, or any combination of those traits, you won't be able to guess and so, will treat me the same.02:01
andrazif voice chat and video chat could be added it would mean a quick death to facebook02:01
DocScrutinizer05it would mean quick death to IRC02:01
freemIRC relies on the fact that it's simple02:01
andrazi have been using it since 96 :)02:02
freemI don't know if you guys are from a country I might hate or love. Video could change that.02:02
andrazbut in 2004 or so people started to shift to other instant messaging services02:02
freemIRC is an instant messaging protocol.02:02
andrazfirst it was aol, then msn then skype, myspace, facebook02:03
freemit only does that, actually: instant messaging.02:03
andraznow there is a plethora of them :)02:03
freemyou forgot msn02:03
freemand that plethora is implemented with electron, which is damn nice to avoid you understanding the result of your pstree -p02:04
freemwhich, in turns, means it's harder than ever to debug IPC softwares you might try to write. For example.02:05
freem(well, it basically forces you to type 2 or 3 commands instead of 1... still, meaningless efforts)02:06
freemAlso, with electron-based stuff, you just have no control about what the soft depends on. MIght cause huge security problems.02:07
freemsorry for that rant02:09
gnarface#debianfork is the devuan reserved channel for ranting, fyi02:10
gnarfacethey're trying to keep this one clear for support issues as they arise02:10
freemI know, that's why I apologize02:10
gnarfaceandraz: i still want to see if MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE will fix your rendering glitches02:17
andrazgnarface: what do i do :)02:17
andrazim new to irssi02:17
andrazand im not sure how to scroll02:18
gnarfaceyou should use hexchat02:18
andrazi use quassel normally02:18
gnarfacei don't know irssi either02:18
gnarfacetry shift+pgup02:18
andraznope :)02:18
andrazbut quassel was removed from ceres02:18
andrazfor some reason02:18
andrazi may be overstating02:19
gnarfaceMESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=4.5 wine pathofexile.exe02:19
andrazbut it was removed from the instalation when i did an upgrade from jessie to ceres02:19
gnarfacethe general form should be this:  MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=[version] wine [program]02:21
gnarfacebut i don't know exactly what [version] we need02:21
gnarface4.5 should be recent enough, but we may have to find something between 3.0 and 4.5 that your hardware can handle but is still new enough for the game02:21
gnarfacesince i don't even know what specific card you're using i can only speculate02:22
gnarfaceis that a pastebin?02:22
gnarfacejust /msg it to me directly02:22
andraza short vid of the glitches02:22
gnarfacesorry but i'm not gonna click on it02:23
andrazkk :)02:23
gnarfaceare you saying that you tried `MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=4.5 wine pathofexile.exe` and it still gave you artifacts though?02:24
andrazim still getting them02:24
gnarfacewell it was worth a try02:24
andraznow even more :)02:24
andrazbut the fps is better02:24
gnarfacewell, i've heard it can fix some issues to specify a higher opengl version when mesa is defaulting to 3.002:24
gnarfaceso if setting it to 4.5 makes it WORSE that's still evidence02:25
gnarfacemaybe some other number would work perfectly02:25
andrazim going to use windows :\02:28
gnarfacewell you don't sound happy about it so i should advise you that threatening to do so is the opposite of an effective way to motivate anyone here to help you fix the problem02:29
gnarfacethat won't get you any traction whatsoever02:29
andrazgnarface: im just a bit dissapointed :)02:29
gnarfacewe're all disappointed02:29
andraznot at the help i got which is overwhelming02:29
andrazand great and im very happy for it and thank you all for the effort02:30
aitorgood morning, devuanitas!10:43
aitori continue working on simple-netaid10:46
aitorthe following code will give you a short information of all the available active wifis:10:51
aitorthe code is taken from wireless-tools10:51
aitorjust run:10:52
aitoras root10:52
aitori'll be back shortly10:52
aitorhi again11:46
aitor bbl16:22
ballsystemlordWhere does one find devuan Beowulf17:26
ballsystemlordso that I can play with it.17:26
golinuxballsystemlord: There are no beowulf isos.  you'd have to upgrade from ASCII.17:38
golinuxNot much has been done on Beowulf yet so ymmv17:39
ballsystemlordOk, how do I do that? The standard dist upgrade does not appear to increment my system past "ascii"?17:39
ballsystemlordI just keep needing a newer package of this and that. Youtube-dl, for example.17:40
ballsystemlordFirefox would also be nice. The newer versions support multithreading!17:41
golinuxballsystemlord: Try backports and if the newer package isn't there, you can add beowulf to your sources.list.  You can also check to locate packages17:51
AlexLikeRockdo  guys   do you tick  this CPU   model name      : mobile AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1900+20:42
AlexLikeRock<AlexLikeRock>  cpu MHz         : 662.595 support  ASCII  ?20:42
DocScrutinizer05maybe useful to kernel devs (though prolly no news to them):
AlexLikeRockor its  to heavy  ?20:44
sixwheeledbeast^Not sure I understand the question20:58
nacelleI believe the question is "can ascii run on an athlon xp 1900+" and my answer is... dunno.21:09
jonadabI would imagine so.21:30
jonadabI mean, there might be certain things that might not perform as well as on a modern system.  But you know.21:31
jonadabYou expect that.21:31
nacellethe problem with teh 1900+ will be the subsystems, mainly disk and memory... they're going to be slow.22:55
nacellei run it in a vm with about as much if not less power though, so it should be fine ... just havent done it on that particular arch so no idea if it'll kernel panic.. which is not likely.22:56
nacellethen theres other chips on the board to be concerned with22:56
nacelle(and those are what I would focus on more than the cpu being compatible... x86 and modernish? probably going to work)22:56
aitoryesterday started the jazz festival in my city23:31
aitor#debianfork ?23:31
g4570nhi aitor23:34
aitorit started with van morrison23:34
aitorhi g4570n :)23:35
aitorg4570n: i'm in #devuan-mx23:37

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