libera/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2018-06-27

filipdevuanim cheating devuan with fedora atm :P00:08
filipdevuani mean im cheating on devuan00:08
golinuxfilipdevuan: I doubt anybody cares00:20
golinuxUse whatever suits you best.  That's what freedom is all about.00:24
filipdevuanyeah well im a bit too inexperienced for devuan atm00:36
NeonLichtI've upgraded from jessie to ascii on several boxes and I'm very happy with it, exept I have a small problem with uzbl.  When I run it, it works fine, but when I visit certain sites, the fonts in the status bar stop showing, and small rectangles show instead.  Any pointers, please?00:39
msiismNeonLicht: what's your locale?00:43
msiismNeonLicht: does uzbl support unicode? (just as a guess)00:44
msiismfilipdevuan: where are the blockers?00:45
filipdevuanwhat blockers?00:45
NeonLichtmsiism, es_ES, but it does the same when I run it like that:  LANG=C uzbl-browser.00:46
msiismNeonLicht: ok, you'd probably have to talk to the uzbl devs then and probably provide a screenshot.00:49
msiismfilipdevuan: the things blocking you from using devuan?00:49
NeonLichtI guess, msiism.  I'm on #uzbl, too, but I thought I'd ask here in case somebody else had the same problem.00:50
aaroNeonLicht: try the utf8 of your language00:50
filipdevuanits optimus card drivers nvidia and intel00:51
NeonLichtThat's what I use, aaro, UTF for Spanish.00:51
aaroNeonLicht: es_ES.utf800:52
filipdevuani managed to get them working properly with xrogaan but anyway i wanted to run windows games so thanks to him i managed to get diablo 2 and tes oblivion work properly. but then i downloaded newer drivers for diablo 3 and diablo 2 stopped working and oblivion00:52
filipdevuanso i was a bit frustrated i did fresh reinstallation and now nothing works at all and i havent got mental strentgh to configue everything again because im too dumb simply dont know how00:53
msiismfilipdevuan: ok, you just lost me. (with your previous post)00:53
filipdevuanyeah xD00:55
NeonLichtYes, aaro, that's what I use.00:55
xrogaanmsiism: it's not devuan in particular00:55
gnarfacefilipdevuan: remember when i told you that you should have made a backup first?00:55
filipdevuannow on fedora diablo 2 doesnt work as well but im not deleting it00:55
xrogaanit's just the new environment.00:55
filipdevuanon windows 10 diablo 2 doesnt work as well00:55
xrogaangnarface: from what I gather, I don't believe he has the disk space for backups.00:55
filipdevuani mean i can run diablo 2 now but when i wanna play online it crashes i give up with windows games... i discovered platform called its something like steam but indie games00:55
filipdevuanim on it now00:55
msiismfilipdevuan: do you know you can dual-boot different operating systems?00:55
gnarfacexrogaan: he's got the disk space for a package list and a tarball of his /etc directory00:55
filipdevuanyeah of course i do know00:55
filipdevuani dont remember how i configured everything so everything worked i should have noted everything, maybe next time00:55
msiismfilipdevuan: why not try it? it give you the opportunity to run devuan, but go back to whatever for things that, atm, work "better" there.00:56
filipdevuani got into devuan because i cared about privacy but now i dont care im fed up with privacy i just wanna have fun now00:56
gnarfacefilipdevuan: once you know which config files to back up you don't really have to remember everything00:56
xrogaanI'm not even sure he has to change anything.00:57
filipdevuani had windows 10 once and then installed fedora but then couldnt detect win10 but anyway i should just get pc with single gpu for devuan if i had cash id already do it but havent got any spare change hahah :P00:57
xrogaanhe install the non-free firmwares, bumbleThing and there you go.00:57
msiismfilipdevuan: is there any university in your area?00:57
filipdevuanxrogaan: now i only seen legacy drivers 340 on synaptic couldnt find normal ones 370 on there00:57
filipdevuanyeah i think so theres a college00:58
xrogaanfilipdevuan: check if your source list non-free repo. I believe it is basic by default.00:58
filipdevuanyeah it is00:58
xrogaanAlso, how old are you? Don't go alone if you're underage.00:59
msiismfilipdevuan: well, if they have an it department, find it and ask them, if they are throwing anything out. big institutions do that regularly. (i know that, because i tend to use that stuff.)00:59
filipdevuanyeah they do00:59
filipdevuanwell i can always ask an e-mail00:59
filipdevuansend an e-mail*00:59
filipdevuani mean they do have it department there :P00:59
filipdevuanim 23 years old im too shy to go to college and say: give me pc now lol01:00
filipdevuani have old pc but i installed windows xp put into hibernate twice now my pc wont display on the screen anymore :/01:00
xrogaanfilipdevuan: nvidia-driver-bin?01:01
filipdevuanusing this laptop doesnt make any sense anyway, normal pc would be much better01:01
xrogaancategory: non-free/x1101:01
filipdevuanxrogaan: sorry im not on devuan now im running fedora 28 atm ;/01:01
xrogaana lot of linux is just looking around and reading stuff.01:01
xrogaanoh, well, ask fedora people then :)01:01
filipdevuanask about what? :P01:02
msiismfilipdevuan: so what about that "broken" machine? is it a hardware issue or not?01:02
gnarfacefilipdevuan: i'm guessing you're chasing a package/driver version problem when you should be focusing harder on winecfg and winetricks01:02
filipdevuanmsiism: i believe its a hardware, basically i got my pc into hibernate or suspend while using windows xp but i bought this pc preowned with ubuntu for 25 pounds on ebay01:03
filipdevuanat once i heard some beeps but second time it hibernated it beepd again and now it doesnt even beep just display doesnt detect it anymore01:03
xrogaanA 25 pounds computer doesn't boot anymore, big surprise.01:04
filipdevuangnarface: yeah probably you're right, but xrogaan helped me to configure everything properly before now i dont remember what iv done aparat from downloading bumblebee and linux-firmware01:04
filipdevuanhahah, yeah ;P.01:04
filipdevuanit should work anyway windows xp killed it. it has 2gb ram and it was alright01:04
msiismfilipdevuan: well, as long as it still beeps...01:04
filipdevuannot anymore...01:05
xrogaanit's probably all you need to do, filipdevuan, download bumblebee and linux-firmware. What we did was mostly diagnostics.01:05
filipdevuanyeah well01:06
filipdevuanbut now im gonna make proper partitions, can i just delete all partitions during installation and then set one up just for OS and rest for media??01:06
msiismfilipdevuan: you can do that (whatever "media" means...). but:01:07
msiismfilipdevuan: you should probably first read a bit about what partitions schemes make good sense.01:08
filipdevuanyeah like instead of installing everything on one partition i mean just to have two partitions one for OS and rest for stuff like pictures music etc.01:08
msiismfilipdevuan: ok, do you sort of a picture of what the linux filesystem looks like?01:09
filipdevuanwell yeah it is different than windows. and iv been thinking about that today cuz i dont know how it looks like. would the first partition be home and the second one home 2 or i dont really know ;PP01:10
msiismfilipdevuan: you need to read about that first and know that structure, at least have a basic idea.01:10
msiismfilipdevuan: could as well start with chapter 1 then, i guess.01:12
filipdevuanyeah im reading now ;p01:12
msiismok, i gotta go01:13
filipdevuanyeah thanks ;)01:20
filipdevuanim going as well in a minute01:21
xrogaanwhich one is better, info or texinfo?05:27
NewGnuGuyxrogaan: I believe info is the viewer program and texinfo is the format.05:29
NewGnuGuyxrogaan: If you want the viewer, install the info package.05:30
xrogaantrying to find out which key on my keyboard is equivalent to \e[2~05:31
xrogaanI did it by mistake, can't find it back again.05:32
xrogaanit's the quote-insert in inputirc05:32
xrogaanthis emacs thing is nonsense.05:35
xrogaanI'm probably wrong, quote insert doesn't do what I think it does.05:36
gnarfacewhat are you actually trying to do?05:38
xrogaaninsert escaped quotes \"\"05:38
xrogaanI'm not sure if it is something I did though.05:39
gnarfacehmm.  doesn't seem difficult, but i can't tell you off the top of my head.  in the same situation i'd use the query-replace-regexp feature (regular expression search&replace)05:39
gnarfacei'd use that to escape the quotes on a second pass05:40
gnarfacethat's in theory (in actuality this is a job for the database client to handle)05:40
gnarfacebut i've done similar types of search&replace as well as more complex ones that way05:41
gnarfacebut for example if you're just doing this to sanitize the data before stuffing it into a database with php you should be using mysql_real_escape_string()05:43
xrogaanno, I mean, in a bash input05:43
xrogaanbash shell?05:43
gnarfaceemacs kinda has it's own flavor of regexp and it's a little extra wordy but it gets the job done05:43
xrogaanI hit some combination of keys and my " transformed into \"05:44
xrogaanprobably not what happened05:45
xrogaanbecause I can't find a feature that would do that.05:45
TashtariHey all.  Hopefully this question isn't too over-common, but I'm curious.  What is the difference between devuan and debian with an apt rule that prohibits the installation of systemd?  (And systemd uninstalled in favor of sysvinit)06:28
xrogaansome packages needs to be redone to properly remove systemd dependencies.06:29
Tashtarixrogaan: What's an example of such a package?06:30
furrywolfon debian, if you prevent the installation of systemd, a couple hundred packages either won't install or won't function.06:30
furrywolfgnome is one of the big ones, xfce,...06:30
Tashtarixfce, really?  Huh.06:31
xrogaanDevuan makes extra sure your system will function without systemd. You can do it yourself, but that's IMHO extra (and unnecessary) work.06:31
furrywolfto fix this, devuan devs rebuild them without systemd requirements, which can be as easy as a couple configure flags, or major patching.06:32
furrywolfif I remember right, xfce will install without systemd, but you'll have no power management and some other stuff breaks.  I don't remember the exact issues with it.  gnome is uninstallable.06:32
TashtariGnome I expected... that seems to be the major thing in bed with systemd.06:33
furrywolfdevuan also has to maintain packages that debian has stopped maintaining because systemd provides replacement functionality.  I can't remember which ones offhand, though.06:35
TashtariI see.  All right, thanks, everyone.  :)06:36
TashtariIt'd be neat to see this question added to an FAQ of some kind... that is, if it hasn't already.06:36
furrywolfthat's an old list, I think...  that is, I don't think it's generated off the current version.06:37
furrywolfyes, it's horribly out of date.06:38
furrywolfand I can't figure out how to get a list of devuan-patched stuff from the new verison.  oh well.06:38
furrywolfbbl, time for me to get to bed06:40
* furrywolf curls up on golinux's feet06:40
TashtariThanks for the information.06:40
KatolaZfurrywolf: pkginfo.devuan.org06:43
KatolaZsearch for "+devuan"06:43
KatolaZyou'll get the list you are looking for06:43
golinuxThat too.  Was coming up next06:44
TashtariAh, much better..06:44
hoshinekodoes devuan come with nonfree firmware?07:28
KatolaZhoshineko: Devuan install media contain non-free firmware07:30
KatolaZbut it's installed only if your wifi card needs it07:30
hoshinekoI see, that's good07:30
hoshinekoalso, this is not strictly devuan-related, but is there a way I can modify the steps in the the installer?, there's a specific point where the debian installer hangs on my machine so i always have to skip the "select and install software" step07:34
hoshinekothough i can just run tasksel later anyways07:35
KatolaZhoshineko: you can use the expert install07:36
KatolaZ(the short answer is: no, you can't modify the steps that are taken by the standard installer without rebuilding the corresponsing d-i components, and d-i)07:37
hotaronohanakohi guys07:55
xHirehi, I’m trying out ascii on a raspberry pi. I really like the system so far. :c) however, even when there is no load (i.e., clean system), the board heats quite a lot (thermal_zone0 currently says 57 °C) – I tested it without SD card for comparison (i.e., nothing booted) and it was cold. has anyone heard about issues like this by any chance?08:42
golinuxxHire: Try #devuab-arm09:25
xHiregolinux: thanks, will try! :c)09:25
golinuxdevuan of course09:25
filipdevuanso i had fedora for a bit i looked up system monitor 55% memory ram used while nothing was on compared to devuan that uses 12%14:00
filipdevuanyeah so bumblebee and linux-firmware and everything is perfect, iv been thinking about starting my own website about linux gaming for a while14:05
gnarfacethat's on ceres, filipdevuan?14:12
gnarfaceor ascii?14:12
gnarfaceor redhat? :-p14:13
filipdevuanredhat fedora14:13
gnarfacedid you check to see if the same works on ceres?14:13
filipdevuanwhats ceres? :P14:13
gnarfacedevuan unstable14:15
gnarfacewell, corresponding to debian sid anyway14:16
filipdevuannah i use normal ascii its stretch i think14:16
gnarfaceyea ascii corresponds to stretch14:16
filipdevuanyeah im happy now :)14:17
gnarfacebut my experience with gaming on linux using nvidia cards was that sid and ceres improved compatibility14:17
filipdevuanditching windows gaming for linux gaming ;P14:17
gnarfaceif you check the versions of what redhat is using against ascii and ceres you might see the culprit14:18
filipdevuanwhy u mention redhat14:18
gnarfacesomething older in ascii, may matter14:18
gnarfaceit doesn't matter14:18
gnarfacewhat matters is you're happy14:19
filipdevuanyeah i had fedora yesterday i was happy and then i checked system monitor while no app was running14:19
filipdevuan55% memory ram used and i thought omg it has to be a joke it's like on windows!!14:19
filipdevuanon dvuan i have few apps opened and browser and its just 26%14:19
filipdevuanyeah i wanna try something new this is why i wanna start discover unknown on linux ;P14:20
gnarfaceyou check out steam on it yet?14:20
gnarfacethere's a summer sale going14:20
gnarfacelots of native games on sale for super cheap14:21
filipdevuanim poor ;D14:21
filipdevuani am on now14:21
gnarfaceoh, right, sorry14:21
gnarfaceoh, but there is free-to-play stuff on steam too14:21
gnarfacesome of it actually good14:21
filipdevuanwas thinking about installing dota 2 on steam but i dont trust steam so i wonder if its really worth it...14:21
filipdevuaniv just tried two games on itch that use unity engine14:21
filipdevuanremind me of minecraft its quite cool14:22
filipdevuani play some survival game where i am a viking in the forest and build everything from scratch like on minecraft, ill test more later now im meeting my friend in a minute gosh ;P14:22
filipdevuanitch is like steam but for indie games14:22
filipdevuanyou know i feel like creating my own website about linux gaming and while i dont like steam i dont think writing about games that r available on steam is a good idea14:23
xHirethe viking game sounds a bit like
filipdevuanthe funny thing is that i have got friends who play games all the time on windows anyway they use steam but funny fact is they hate gabe newell from valve and i found it funny i was like you know i dont really like steam and they were like yeah this gebe is a wanker and steam games arent worth anything14:32
filipdevuani was like oh so im not the only one who dislike steam14:32
xHireI’m not really into supporting proprietary games so I ignore steam anyway ;c)14:33
filipdevuanyeah, i think you know steam is great and steam games are fun but i always feel like instead of spending my time playing games on steam all the time id rather develop software LOL14:34
xHireyes, that’s what I do ^_^ (that’s the only reason I didn’t buy OHOL, because that would motivate me to play it :-D)14:35
filipdevuani dont like to pay real money for digital stuff digital games digital software digital everything and its all digital because of steam nowadays ;/14:37
filipdevuanohol looks interesting14:38
xHirethen get OHOL from github and compile it yourself. but you won’t be able to connect to the official server so you’ll need to run your own, where you’ll be the only player…14:39
filipdevuanyeah i may do ;P14:46
grillonhi there15:08
grillonmy X server works without DM but I don't know why. I have changed too much things :-/15:10
grillonso I cannot return the info back sorry15:10
KatolaZgrillon: it's in the release notes :)15:21
M0E-lnxanyone know of a howto for libdevuansdk?16:50
KatolaZM0E-lnx: there is some minimal doc in the repo17:15
KatolaZM0E-lnx: what do you need in particular?17:15
M0E-lnxKatolaZ, i was looking for general information on how to use it17:18
M0E-lnxthere is not much docs on that17:18
M0E-lnxi'm reading the code to try to figure out what it does17:18
KatolaZM0E-lnx: normally you won't use it directly17:19
KatolaZrather through live-sdk17:19
KatolaZor virtual-sdk17:19
KatolaZor arm-sdk17:19
M0E-lnxI'm trying to re-pack my current install + config into an iso that I can re-deploy on another box17:19
M0E-lnxso am I looking at the wrong tool for that then?17:19
KatolaZthen you might want to have a look at virtual-sdk maybe17:20
KatolaZwhich has stuff ready for that17:20
KatolaZor live-sdk, if you need a live17:20
KatolaZlibdevuansdk is pretty low-level stuff17:20
KatolaZthose *-sdk provide a higher-level interface17:21
M0E-lnxlet me look at that17:21
KatolaZshout if you need help17:21
M0E-lnxwill do.. ty17:22
fsmithredrepack current install sounds like a job for refractasnapshot17:26
fsmithredM0E-lnx, ^^^17:26
M0E-lnxfsmithred, is that included in the devuan iso or an extra project?17:30
M0E-lnxi'm new to devuan btw17:30
M0E-lnxin case you can't tell yet17:30
KatolaZM0E-lnx: refractasnapshot is in Devuan's repos17:31
M0E-lnxok lemme check that out17:31
KatolaZbut that's mainly to create a live-cd17:31
M0E-lnxI did start with ascii minimal live and used refractainstaller17:31
KatolaZfrom a runing system17:32
KatolaZand it worked fine?17:32
KatolaZvery good :)17:32
M0E-lnxI added packages to bring it to my liking and now want to pack it all up and re-deploy it17:32
KatolaZif by re-deploy ypu mean having a live system that you can install with refractainstaller, then use refractasnapshot17:33
fsmithredKatolaZ, is refractasnapshot-base installed in minimal-live?17:38
M0E-lnxwhat is the difference from installing from refractainstaller vs clicking the icon on the desktop and following the prompts?17:39
M0E-lnxsort of like the ubuntus/debians do17:40
M0E-lnxso, refracta is the TUI installer?17:40
KatolaZno M0E-lnx17:40
fsmithredif you added a desktop and install refractainstaller-gui, then you can run a graphical version17:40
KatolaZthe install images have the standard debian installer17:40
KatolaZslightly adaped by Devuan17:40
KatolaZlive images use refractainstaller17:41
M0E-lnxgot ya17:41
KatolaZfsmithred: yes, refractasnapshot-base in in minimal-live17:42
KatolaZhas been there since when it was "unofficial" ;)17:42
fsmithredthought so. thanks17:42
KatolaZfsmithred, from the README:17:43
KatolaZ"5) == Acknowledgements ==17:43
KatolaZI thank the refracta team for providing refractasnapshot and17:43
M0E-lnxdo you guys know if devuan uses a build farm for producing packages?17:44
KatolaZM0E-lnx: what do you mean?17:44
M0E-lnxI come from Slack, where everything is build manually17:44
M0E-lnxI wonder if devuan has an automated build system that accepts build jobs and spits out packages17:45
KatolaZthe builds are still issued manually, for convenience17:45
KatolaZyes M0E-lnx17:45
KatolaZthis is what does17:45
M0E-lnxI have to learn how packaging works for .deb17:47
KatolaZM0E-lnx: is there any package that you need and does not exist as a .deb?17:49
M0E-lnxprobably not17:49
M0E-lnx.deb is pretty extensive17:49
M0E-lnxbut for like adding my own customizations to an existing package17:49
M0E-lnxand things like that17:49
fsmithredrebuilding packages for yourself is pretty easy. Sorting through all the documentation is not so easy.17:55
M0E-lnxseen that17:56
M0E-lnxit's like debian wont tell you how to get something done without giving you the packaging 101 which includes all the details17:56
M0E-lnxwhich is fine... I'm just used to knocking things out real quick coming from slack17:56
fsmithredit's good to have quick-start instructions, too17:57
M0E-lnxnever really been a ubuntu person, used pure debian before, but not a big fan of systemd17:57
KatolaZM0E-lnx: reality is that the whole packaging pipeline is not that easy to learn17:57
M0E-lnxtrue that17:58
M0E-lnxbeen seeing it for years, never really paid attention to learning it though17:58
KatolaZnot impossible, but it requires a bit more effort than writing a port, so to speak17:58
KatolaZonce you get it, it's pretty straightforwardd17:58
M0E-lnxdevuan is becoming a new favorite for me, so I guess i'll have to invest the time to dig into it17:58
M0E-lnxbrb.... lunch time17:59
fsmithredlunch? Wow, I'm actually talking to someone in my timezone.18:01
KatolaZsee fsmithred18:01
KatolaZyou are not alone :D18:01
james1138_Question. Any suggestions for a system report application that tell what hardware and software such as kernel is in use??18:20
ivanshmakovjames1138_: Like $ uname ?18:20
james1138_I would much prefer GUI rather than terminal.18:21
fsmithredhwinfo or lshw give a lot of hardware info. If you want graphical, hardinfo18:21
KatolaZuname -a18:21
KatolaZor neofetch18:21
james1138_Hardinfo. I shall look at that.18:22
fsmithredshows up in menu as 'system benchmark and profiler' or something like that18:22
golinuxSystem Profiler and Benchmark  ;)18:23
fsmithredthanks, I'm kinda out of it today18:24
fsmithredrecovering from dental work18:24
golinuxOuch.  You and Centurion18:30
james1138_HardInfo works Great!!  Big thanks Fsmithred!!18:33
fsmithredIt was International Tooth Week?18:38
M0E-lnxfsmithred, US/Central... where you at?19:00
fsmithredyou had early lunch19:00
M0E-lnxyes... I luch @ 1119:00
M0E-lnxi'm in TX19:00
fsmithrednot close at all19:01
M0E-lnxrefractasnapshot worked like a charm btw19:05
M0E-lnxty guys19:05
M0E-lnxI wonder why this tool is not more obvious on the shipped ISO19:05
KatolaZM0E-lnx: have you read the README?19:08
KatolaZunder /root19:08
KatolaZi think refractainstaller and refractasnapshot are mentioned in the live images19:08
M0E-lnxI'm sure I have.... that's how I found the refractainstaller19:08
KatolaZso we should probably put them in a more prominent position19:09
M0E-lnxor document them more clearly I guess19:12
M0E-lnxor reference them in an INSTALL.TXT file19:12
M0E-lnxDo you guys know if FF quantum is in the repos?20:03
M0E-lnxapt seems to list esr only20:07
NewGnuGuyM0E-lnx: Greetings, fellow Texan!21:17
NewGnuGuyWhereabout in our great state do are you?21:18
M0E-lnxgreetings NewGnuGuy21:20
M0E-lnxHOU area21:20
NewGnuGuyCool, I'm up near Dallas21:22
M0E-lnxGot a buddy that just moved to Frisco21:23

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