libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2018-06-28

icebreakerhey guys, i am trying to compile a linux-kernel but i dont have the make-kpkg program and i cant find it in repo, where can i get it?00:01
gnarfaceicebreaker: it's in the package called "kernel-package"00:09
icebreakeri have checked that but problem is there is no package called kernel-package00:10
gnarfacehmmmmm.... in ascii?   are you sure your sources.list is correct?00:12
gnarfaceoh hmmm00:13
gnarfacei'm not seeing it in ascii right now either.   i wonder what's up with that...00:13
NewGnuGuyIs it a virtual package?00:13
gnarfacei don't think so00:14
icebreakerah now i can see it00:14
gnarfaceit's back?00:14
icebreakersomething was not correct with sources00:14
gnarfacehmmm.  glad it works for you, but it's still missing in ascii for me00:16
gnarfacethat's troubling00:16
gnarfacesomething must be going on with the mirrors...00:16
gnarfacemaybe it just got removed and then replaced and it's taking some time to propagate00:17
icebreakercan i somehow install the package without ~900mb latex dependency?00:18
gnarfacei don't know, but i think that's needed to build the kernel documentation00:19
gnarfaceor something like that00:20
icebreakergreat taht will take hours with my internet connection :D00:20
gnarfaceicebreaker: did you try adding the "--no-install-recommends" command-line option to apt-get?00:21
gnarfaceif that doesn't work i've got nothing00:21
icebreakersweet ! thx00:21
icebreakeronly 17 mb now00:21
gnarface(even if that works you may still need latex to actually build the kernel package)00:21
icebreakerthat saved me like 3 hours, thanks00:22
DocScrutinizer05I'm looking for some "filesystem" - lets call it fuse-exec-fs - that provides  the normal filesystem function calls ( man 2 open|less +'/^SEE ALSO' ) aka API under its MOUNTpoint, but actually consists of dynamically generated virtual char-device files, so for any open() && read() - like `cat /MOUNT/<filename> - returns the stdout of a executable like $(MyFileGenerator 'MOUNT' '<filename>') - you ever heard of some implementation of such05:09
DocScrutinizer05a thing?05:09
gnarfaceDocScrutinizer05: maybe i don't understand what you're asking but doesn't the kernel do that already with /dev/loop[N]?05:29
gnarfacenormally only udisks2 needs to touch them05:30
gnarfacebut if you're not running udisks2 i think they're the only way individual partitions are exposed as devices05:31
DocScrutinizer05gnarface: an existing example that somewhat does what I'm looking for is the (name?) fuse-mp3-fs that creates a dir with virtual *,mp3 files that get dynamically recoded from *.flac, *.wav and whatnot else, when user opens any such file for reading05:31
gnarfacethat sounds like something i'd do with a cronned bash script, so you've lost me05:32
DocScrutinizer05prolly that fuse-mp3-fs isn't generic enough to configure it for the uses I intend it for05:32
gnarfacewhat would be the use, exactly?05:32
DocScrutinizer05gnarface: huh? *virtual* files05:33
gnarfacelike /sys and /proc and /dev...05:33
gnarfacei'm confused05:33
DocScrutinizer05they never really exist on HDD and thus never eat space. Also never are out of date05:33
gnarfacei'm torn between whether you're trying to do something in /mnt that belongs in /dev or trying to do something in /dev that belongs in userspace05:33
DocScrutinizer05I smell a massive misconception on your side05:34
gnarfaceyes, probably something i'm misunderstanding about your goal05:34
DocScrutinizer05the name FUSE alone already gives away "USER SPACE"05:34
DocScrutinizer05maybe you could rethink the mp3 example05:35
gnarfaceyea, i get THAT, but that's not quite what i meant when i said userspace05:35
DocScrutinizer05that's an *existing* implementation05:35
gnarfaceyes, it's the very definition of something that should be done in the kernel being done in userspace instead05:36
DocScrutinizer05there's no kernel involved05:36
DocScrutinizer05except FUSE kernel stub05:36
gnarfacebut how is that functionally different than if you for example just put the files in some tmpfs mount and ran a cron job to transcode them?05:37
DocScrutinizer05you ever heard of virtual files systems? (not to be confused with kernel's concept of VFS)05:37
gnarfacewell isn't that what /dev, /proc, and /sys *are* in fact?05:37
DocScrutinizer05how would it be not different?05:37
DocScrutinizer05yes, dev, proc, and sys are virtual filesystems05:38
DocScrutinizer05,p3 is another05:38
DocScrutinizer05nfs yet another05:38
gnarfacei see05:39
gnarfacewell i'm not sure what exists that already does this like you want, but i maintain that you can get close enough with some clever scripting05:40
DocScrutinizer05scripting is exactly what I want to do by leveraging this fuse-exec-fs05:40
gnarfaceit does seem like it would not be a difficult thing for someone experienced in making kernel modules to make a module that exposed as a /dev/ style device some code that just transcodes everything you copy in and stores it in a tmpfs mount05:41
DocScrutinizer05I *could* get away with a megaton of inotify voodoo mess05:41
gnarfacehmmm. that was the other thing i was thinking ... if you can hook into dnotify/inotify, you wouldn't even need the cron job05:42
DocScrutinizer05this stuff shal not get stored!05:42
gnarfacestreamed dynamically?05:42
gnarfacewell, not much difference implementation-wise05:42
DocScrutinizer05and that is what mp3fs does, just in userland via fuse05:43
gnarfaceyou're gonna have some serious load scaling issues if you don't at least cache the stuff...05:43
DocScrutinizer05and I wand arbitrary commands in place of transcode05:43
gnarfacei would too but that might be insane05:43
DocScrutinizer05you looked at that git link?05:44
gnarfaceno i mean the "arbitrary commands" part05:44
DocScrutinizer05I *have* this /well I had until it broke during a distro upgrade)05:44
gnarfacethe ability to swap bash scripts into the pipeline of a ... filesystem..05:44
gnarfacejust out of curiosity05:45
gnarfaceif you're streaming directly anyway05:45
gnarfacewhy not just pipe to stdout?05:45
DocScrutinizer05who says I want streaming?05:45
gnarfacewell it was a logical deduction between there and /dev/null05:45
gnarfacei couldn't figure out what else you'd be doing with it05:46
DocScrutinizer05U want (arbitrary poor example) ~/A/* and ~/B/* real dirs, and a virtual ~/diff_A_B(* that does what the name implies05:46
gnarfacei see, interesting05:47
gnarfaceis there such a thing as a fifo directory?05:48
DocScrutinizer05but maybe I indeed might get away with inorify-watch05:48
DocScrutinizer05and that's the problem05:48
DocScrutinizer05inotify will prolly fail when I try to open a nonexistent file05:49
gnarfacewait a minute05:50
gnarfacemaybe this is a solved problem05:50
gnarfaceis this something that could be done with unionfs?05:50
DocScrutinizer05it is solved for *.mp3 virtual files ;-)05:50
gnarfacei wonder if unionfs could be altered for this05:51
DocScrutinizer05no, a unionfs also would need existing files05:51
DocScrutinizer05have a look at - it's cute05:51
DocScrutinizer05aah wait... I need file stibs anyway, for `ls` etc05:52
DocScrutinizer05so creating all thise as pipes would solve the problem in a inotify-tabgible manner05:53
DocScrutinizer05and yes, sure it has its very own specific set of CPU load issues06:06
DocScrutinizer05e.g you don't want to run `grep -R FOOBAR ~/mp3cnv/`06:08
DocScrutinizer05a plain vanilla rsync is also not advisable06:08
]BFG[how many devs does this project have?06:11
]BFG[did u manage to pull more ppl from the original debian?06:11
DocScrutinizer05I think "pull HR from original debian" is not even the right category to think06:14
DocScrutinizer05devuan is a meta-distro that bases massively om debian. In zhat demse it's quize a derivative of debian rather than a competitor - including devel participation06:15
DocScrutinizer05devuan is a meta-distro that bases massively on debian. In that semse it's quite a derivative of debian rather than a competitor - including devel participation06:16
DocScrutinizer05not a single dev had to stop contrubuting to debian because they fll in love with devuan. Au contraire, some of devuan's devels felt devuan was an opportunity for them to continue contributing to *debian* instead of looking for some freebsd or whatever06:19
DocScrutinizer05]BFG[: ^^^06:20
gnarfacesure, while in the mean time some others are actively chucking shit overboard that we're still using06:20
gnarfacedebian doesn't seem to be of one mind about it's stance on us06:21
gnarface(and i say "us" loosely as a user of devuan and not actually an official member of the team)06:21
gnarfacebut the point's still valid06:21
DocScrutinizer05apropos - golinux how about a col "preferred gender" in the table of team members?06:26
DocScrutinizer05those who don't want to give any hint are free toleave that field empty06:27
DocScrutinizer05I would allow arbitrary text in this col - for sure not a braindead linited choice like06:28
DocScrutinizer05"F | M"06:28
gnarfacewhat possible good reason could you have for encouraging increasing the social attack surface?06:29
gnarfacethat just seems like a pointlessly divisive suggestion06:29
Criggiegnarface: good point.06:31
DocScrutinizer05how would leaving this field empty "increase the social attack surface" - if it feels like not providing info there about its preferred comjugations06:31
guruwhy on earth would anyone care about the gender of the developers06:32
Leanderin which case, use a neutral one06:32
Leander <- this way, for instance06:33
DocScrutinizer05so what? I *want* people to refer to me as "him". not "they" or "it" or "s/he"06:34
DocScrutinizer05if you don't like that to be a topic for you, ignore that text field06:35
Criggie"they" as opposed to "we"06:35
gnarfaceby even having the field then you inherently expose people who don't want to admit their gender.  the damned distro shouldn't be about gender identity.  not everything has to be about gender identities.06:36
DocScrutinizer05both for yourself and (if you feel like being polite is a yesterday's thing) for others06:36
gnarfaceyou certainly have to see this06:36
gnarfacethis isn't the first disingenuous suggestion i've seen you try to float06:37
Leanderthis information can be on the personal webpage linked on that page06:37
gnarfacethat too06:37
DocScrutinizer05or that ^06:37
guruis doc apart of the devuan team?06:37
Criggiegnarface's just pissy that you've made an assumption all developers are human.  That migh tnot be the case in the future so we should prepare for it now.06:37
* gnarface snorts 06:38
guruthank god06:38
Criggiegod I'm funny when I'm tired.06:38
gurusuggestions like this are cancerous06:38
guruthey should list DNA types too06:38
gurulets just go crazy06:38
Criggieand handedness.06:38
DocScrutinizer05not possible in your case, guru06:39
gurugnarface are you left or right handed06:39
Criggiedamn righties vs southpaws06:39
guruthat needs to be listed too06:39
CriggieBUT BUT BUT Thtats divisive for people with less than or more than two hands?06:39
* DocScrutinizer05 always is baffled when people rage against an *option* as if it was mandatory and has to get signed in blood06:40
Leanderto me, any sort of information other than a name/pseudonym and an email or a personal webpage does not belong there06:41
Criggiewhat's the point ?06:41
gnarfacei'm specifically raging against the type of suggestions DocScrutinizer05 seems to make06:41
Criggieor more clearly, what's the advantage to the devuan project ?06:41
Criggieno advantage, why do it ?06:41
DocScrutinizer05gnarface: take your meds06:41
guruthere is none he just wants attention06:42
gnarfaceit seems like he's always trying to advocate some long plot to discredit the distro and get it embroiled in some petty unrelated religious war06:42
DocScrutinizer05it seems like you often drift away in conspiracy plots of the ultimately biazrre kind06:43
gurusorry doc you're a fucking moron using the /ignore command go riddance06:43
Leanderthen you fail to see the potential long term effects of what you are asking for06:43
gurui don't think i've blocked someone on irc before lol06:43
DocScrutinizer05guru: please watch your speech06:43
* bozonius realizes this might not be a good time ...06:49
Criggiebozonius: if its on topic then its always a good time06:49
gnarfaceyes, please, let's put this back on topic06:50
Leanderbecause publishing such information, even with total freedom about what is put in that field, will inevitably either create a distraction in the form of "look, we're so inclusive, look!" and some people won't like how this is not an init-related issue, or some people will start doing statistics and there will be politics about "we should have more women onboard", again causing distraction06:50
* bozonius searches for an 11 foot pole...06:50
DocScrutinizer05and >>how about ... ?<< is hardly "asking for something". Uttering your concerns in a more polite way would have done better for your case, and for keeping this civil06:50
gnarfacelol you're not about to point out a pronoun correction in the documentation, are you bozonius?06:50
bozoniusoh goodie.  We're doing grammar tonight?06:51
gnarfacethat would be hillarious06:51
Criggiebozonius: its packaged in xorg-can\'ttouchthis-1.0.deb06:51
bozoniuswhatever it is, yes, probably06:51
Criggiebozonius: no not doing grammar - she's got Bingo down the church hall toinguiht06:51
DocScrutinizer05no, *you* are clearly going on your weekly flamewar again, based on unfounded assumptions and distortions of what had been said06:52
bozoniusLet's say that a guy like... well, say,  Bozonius06:52
bozoniuswould like to jettison all things *dhcp* out of the stratosphere on Devuan.06:53
gnarfaceDocScrutinizer05: no, "let's suggest the team all list their genders" is flame bait.  that's what started the flame war.06:53
DocScrutinizer05who said that? another distortion06:53
bozoniusdevuan ascii, that is06:53
gnarfacebozonius: it should be safe.  just 2 packages i think06:53
gnarfacebozonius: oh, if you're using wifi you're probably gonna have to reconfig your router though06:54
bozoniusbut it insists on replacing them with OTHER dhcp client packages06:54
bozoniusno wifi here06:54
gnarfaceno, remove them on the same line06:54
gnarfacepass them as 2 arguments to the same command06:54
gnarfacenot two separate commands06:54
bozoniuseven if they are not installed?06:54
gnarfaceit'll behave differently06:54
gnarfacewait they're not there?06:54
gnarfacejust the two that are installed06:54
gnarfacei think it'll behave differently if you remove them at the same time06:55
bozoniusOk, I want to remove dhcp client packages06:55
Criggiebozonius: you want to uninstall dhcp tools ?  Or simply configure a static IP ?06:55
gnarfaceisc-dhcpcd-something and isc-dhcpcd-somethingelse06:55
bozoniustrouble is, when I try to do that, it wants to install substitutes06:55
bozoniusyes, yes06:55
gnarfaceoh hmmm06:55
bozoniushold on for a screen shot...06:55
bozoniusyou realize I probably screwed something up again...06:56
gnarfacebozonius: yea, Criggie brings up a good point, you know you can just disable dhcp too, you don't have to actually uninstall it06:56
bozoniusbut hold on...06:56
bozoniusoh?  how06:56
gnarfacei don't actually know.  i always just uninstall it.06:56
Leanderit depends on which tool you use to configure your network06:57
Leanderif you edit by hand /etc/network/interfaces, or you use wicd, or networkmanager or something else06:57
bozoniusman what a riot.  So I included removing the substitute packages (dhcpcd5 and openresolv) and it wants to install "pump"07:00
bozoniusso I have to include pump on the cmd line also...07:00
bozoniusbut I think it might be gone now, so that is a good thing07:01
bozoniuswas it a good idea to make resolv a dependency of dhcp client packages?07:01
bozoniusthat seems to be the reason it wants to install a substitute dhcp client07:02
gnarfacei'm confused really07:02
gnarfaceit wasn't that hard for me to remove the default dhcp packages07:02
bozoniusplease say you are  joking07:02
bozoniuswhen I tried to remove the isc-* packages, it wanted to install dhcpcd5 and openresolv07:02
gnarfaceno, i'm not joking, but maybe something else you have installed that i did not have installed is the actual culprit07:03
bozoniusso I had to include all 4 packages as args to apt-get purge07:03
* bozonius is probably the "culprit"07:03
bozoniusso then it insisted on installing "pump"07:03
bozoniusso I had to purge all 5 packages07:04
bozoniusthe two isc-*, dhcpcd5 and openresolv, and pump07:04
gnarfaceso, "Package: isc-dhcp-client" "Provides: dhcp-client" and all those others, including pump i think07:04
gnarface`apt-cache show isc-dhcp-client` to see all the details07:05
gnarfacesomething else on your system must have required "dhcp-client"07:05
gnarfacefor it to make you go through all of them like that07:05
gnarfacebut now i'm not sure if you got the package in question07:05
gnarfaceor just crippled it07:05
* bozonius once more, spake too sooneth07:05
bozoniusit is not working just as before.  HOld on, I'm looking at it...07:06
gnarfaceonce you actually succeed though you will have to set a proper /etc/network/interfaces and maybe also /etc/resolv.conf file07:06
gnarfacewith you know, your static ip configurations07:06
gnarfaceor nothing will work07:06
gnarfaceyou'll have to restart the networking devices maybe too07:07
gnarfaceor just the whole thing07:07
bozoniusit seems the real problem is that SOMETHING is making dhcp discover requests -- I can see these clearly in wireshark07:08
bozoniusso I thought by removing dhcp clients, it would eliminate that07:08
bozoniuswrong I see07:08
gnarfaceps aux |grep dhc07:08
gnarfaceor maybe: ps aux |grep dhc -i07:09
gnarfacesee if you have a dhcp client still running07:09
bozoniusps -ef07:09
bozonius"still" ???  Never had one07:09
bozoniusfirst thing I checked in fact07:09
gnarfaceuh, you might be surprised...07:09
gnarfacei'm not sure07:10
* bozonius is never surprised anymore07:10
gnarfacehow many network devices does `ifconfig -a` report?07:10
bozoniusjust eth0 and lo007:10
gnarfacewhat happens if you `ifdown eth0` then `ifup eth0` ?07:10
bozoniusbtw, it is "ip addr" these days.  I don't have ifconfig on ascii07:10
bozoniusjust eth0 and lo07:11
gnarfaceoh heh07:11
bozoniuswhich is what I expected07:11
gnarfaceso you can down then up eth0?07:11
bozoniusdid I download the bozonius edition by mistake?  Maybe that is the problem.  Because no one else runs into these...07:11
bozoniusmaybe has an evil twin07:12
gnarfacewell are you even sure the dhcp requests aren't coming from another machine on the LAN?07:12
bozoniuswireshark shows me that the source is and dest is
bozoniusbut wait07:12
gnarfacedoes it stop if eth0 is down?07:13
bozoniusI can check them here on the other side07:13
bozoniusgood point, I'll try that07:13
bozoniusnothing.  But then again, the eth0 device was the one seeing these packets, so...07:15
gnarfacei'm trying to remember what else a dhcp client could be called07:17
gnarfaceshould still be running07:17
gnarfacewell assuming it's local07:18
DocScrutinizer05bozonius: we had the DGCP issue topic not long ago already. That been you or would you want a link to that thread?07:18
DocScrutinizer05DHCP even07:18
gnarfaceis there dhcp built into the kernel now?07:21
bozoniusone thing I am certain of is that the "src" of the packets has the same MAC address on both sides of the connection, so I am pretty sure it is originating from the planet ascii07:22
bozoniusminor though it may be, yes...07:22
bozoniusit doesn't just send a few, it sends tons07:23
DocScrutinizer05dnsmasq was a buzzword in that other thread iirc07:23
gnarfacebozonius: here's the thing, what should have happened is you removed the thing that was requiring a dhcp client instead of the dhcp client, first07:23
bozoniusthere is no dnsmasq running07:23
bozoniusand dnsmasq is something else07:23
gnarfaceit should have actually told you, in the text error that pops up, what package07:24
gnarfaceit looks like an error, so it's common to skim over it07:24
bozoniusI wish we were analyzing pronouns instead of this.07:24
gnarfaceyou gotta actually read that07:24
DocScrutinizer05initrd was another buzzword07:24
gnarfaceotherwise it'll just keep trying to fix the dependency07:25
gnarfacenow that's what's basically happened, is my theory07:25
gnarfacehmmm.  yea if there was a kernel-level dhcp you might have to regenerate the initrd and reboot to get rid of it07:26
gnarfacei don't even know07:26
gnarfacebozonius: you did take all the dhcp lines out of /etc/network/interfaces, right?  or you're using a gui network tool...?07:26
bozonius(keep in mind this is hard to copy back and forth with the flaky link on ascii07:27
gnarfacedid you run `apt-get autoremove`?07:28
bozoniusok I will07:28
gnarfacerun it like this:  `apt-get --purge autoremove`07:29
gnarfacei dunno though... if it's still running after that i'm out of ideas, i dunno what you did07:30
bozoniusok, it removed some python packages and rfkill07:30
gnarfacei think my original suspect would have been wicd and/or wicd-daemon07:30
gnarfacei would have assumed that if you had run `apt-get purge isc-dhcp-client isc-dhcp-common wicd` it would have asked you to autoremove the rest07:31
bozoniusI'm going to reboot and see if it goes away...07:32
gnarfacebozonius: gonna need to see your interfaces file i guess if it doesn't07:32
* bozonius invokes the Microsoft Method (tm) 07:32
bozoniusbut it really IS nice having this test box...07:33
gnarfaceheh yea07:33
bozoniuswhat I want to do next, once these network issues are sorted out, is set up some kind of rdp or the like so I don't need two keyboards and switching the mouse dongle back and forth...07:33
gnarfacethe primary two ways are either through vnc or ssh forwarding07:35
gnarfaceon a LAN, either is viable if you're a little patient07:35
bozoniusI was thinking more of something like NoX07:36
bozoniusor whatever that's called.  I've installe dit in the past07:36
gnarfacewith vnc it shows you a whole desktop, with ssh forwarding (actually called X11 forwarding over ssh) you can run just one program at a time07:37
bozoniusit's like hummingbird07:37
bozoniusI've tried vnc a few times also07:37
bozoniusok back up07:37
gnarfacewith the forwarding approach, you also don't actually have to be running X on the remote machine07:37
bozoniusnow all I have is a route for link-local07:38
bozoniusit's like it ignored my interfaces file completely07:38
gnarfaceshow me07:39
bozoniusshould be fun recovering from this07:39
gnarfacedon't pastebin07:39
gnarfacejust /msg it to me07:39
bozoniustrouble is, I don't have a way to copy/paste it anywhere07:39
gnarfaceoh, right07:39
bozoniusthe link is down07:39
gnarfacewell, hang on07:39
gnarfacei can show you an example07:40
gnarfacedo you have resolvconf installed or not, as an aside?07:41
bozoniuswhen you say resolvconf, you mean package by that name?  No07:42
bozoniuswhat is really odd, though, is that yesterday, all this was working. LOL07:42
gnarfacewhat'd you do?!07:43
gnarfaceno ideas?07:43
gnarfacechange to the router maybe?07:43
bozoniuswell, one thing I did do was change07:43
bozoniusyeah the router07:43
bozoniusI broke it07:44
bozoniusbut I fixed it and thought it was back to normal again07:44
bozoniusit's a vbox (oh, there's that "word" again) appliance running ipfire.  I've had no other issues though07:44
bozoniusI've used two of these appliances for about a year now without any major issues07:45
bozoniusall I did was add a "blue" interface for the test box, and it was working07:45
bozoniusthe connection is a bridged ethernet port on the host machine.  that ethernet port connects to the testbox07:46
gnarfaceit's supposed to look something like this07:46
bozoniuswhat I did, without realizing it would cause a problem, is to change the underlying config for the port.  And then the testbox had problems talking to the Internet.07:47
gnarfacethe numbers have to be in the ranges your router expects though07:47
bozoniusbut then I put the underlying config for the ethernet port on the host machine back and the testbox machine started talking to the Internet again.  Unfortunately, it stopped working.07:47
bozoniusI dont' have network and broadcast, but I do have dns-nameservers and dns-search07:49
gnarfaceso, without resolvconf installed, those will just be syntax errors07:50
bozoniusI could add them I suppose07:50
gnarfacethey may be the culprits07:50
gnarfaceif you populate /etc/resolv.conf correctly you don't need the resolvconf package (that seems counter-intuitive, i know)07:50
bozoniusI know.  resolvconf is just nicey-nice front end mostly07:50
gnarfacein that case, you will also need to remove dns-nameservers and dns-search from the interfaces file, or at least comment them out07:50
gnarfacealso, it's common for dhcp clients to clobber resolv.conf so you should check yours07:51
gnarfacethose numbers will have to all be right or none of your networking will work07:51
gnarfacewell, you might be able to get away without network and broadcast but i always specify them anyway to be sure07:52
bozoniusholy heck it might be working again...07:54
bozoniussadly, I am still seeing dhcp discover requests though07:56
bozoniusnot working07:56
gnarfacedoes "default" match what's in your interfaces file?07:57
* bozonius wishes systemd had never been born07:57
bozoniusyeah, same as before07:58
gnarfacecan you ping something outside by ip?07:58
bozoniuswhat is happening is that it looks like as soon as the router side gets a discover request, it shuts off access to the Internet.07:59
gnarfaceso you *can't* ping, for example?07:59
bozoniusI think it may be that the router doesn't trust the packets coming over blue (which is normally a wireless network leg)07:59
gnarfacewell, your router DOES need to be configured right07:59
bozoniusright, unless I restart the connection.  And then it only lasts until the router resets it07:59
bozoniusyeah, and I followed some advice on the help pages08:00
bozoniusmaybe I need to go ask them for some help08:00
bozoniusit could be that the router, even with the mod I made as they suggested, still doesn't like the requests08:00
bozoniuswhich makes sense because why would it be asking dhcp when it already has a static address?08:01
bozoniusof course the router doesn't know that I suppose08:01
gnarfacewell i still am concerned about where those requests are coming from, but maybe they can come from the kernel now.08:01
bozoniusme too08:01
bozoniusthose seem to act like some kind of poison pill when the router receives them08:02
gnarfacehang on08:02
bozoniuswater... brb08:03
gnarfacetry regenerating the initrd.img like this: `update-initramfs -u -k all08:03
gnarface`update-initramfs -u -k all` i mean, not with the extraneous newline08:04
gnarfaceyou'd have to reboot again to see if that helps08:06
bozoniuspossible missing firmware again... remember from when I did the install?08:06
gnarfaceyou don't remember the package ?08:06
gnarfaceyou outta put that in a text file08:06
bozoniusI'm wondering if this NIC (built-in to board) is set up to automatically request DHCP ...08:06
gnarfacethat would be weird but not impossible08:07
gnarfacethis can still be caused by the kernel command-line and/or the initrd.img it appears from my googling though, so try rebooting after you've run update-initramfs08:07
gnarfacethen if that doesn't work that's one less thing08:07
gnarfacebefore you do that, what do you have in /proc/cmdline anyway?08:07
bozoniusonly warnings08:07
bozoniusit's done08:07
bozoniusyou want /proc/cmdline?08:08
gnarfacejust make sure 'ip=' and 'dhcp' don't show up anywhere in there08:08
gnarfaceor anything else that looks like it's trying to set up a network device08:08
bozoniusBOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-6-amd64 root=UUID=f3blahblah-blah-blah ro quiet08:09
gnarfaceyea reboot08:09
bozoniusreally fast on the reboot.08:10
bozoniussure you guys aren't using that sooper-dooper fast systemd?08:10
gnarfacethe regenerated initrd.img may very well be much smaller than the stock one08:10
gnarfacethere's some setting somewhere that toggles whether to include "everything" or just drivers for what you need08:11
bozoniusyes, that was an option in the install08:11
gnarfaceit's usually a large enough difference in size that i've noticed a significant reduction of boot times on slow flash cards08:12
gnarfacealso, you might be missing a 60s DHCP timeout :-p08:12
gnarfacewhat does wireshark say?08:12
bozoniuslet me restart that08:13
bozoniusit's still chirping those dhcp equests08:15
bozoniusdouble damn08:15
bozoniusmaybe even triple08:15
bozoniusthis sucks08:15
gnarfacewell we really might be chasing a shadow here08:15
gnarfacethose could be coming from elsewhere08:15
bozoniusI doubt it08:16
bozoniusI can match the MAC addresses of the hardware08:16
bozoniusLet's see... I used to use the board that's in the test box in the main machine I use  today08:17
bozoniusand it connected to a comcast router, which does do the dhcp thing08:18
bozoniusso I am wondering if maybe this is the first time I am using it for a fixed (static) ip08:18
bozoniusoddly, I was  able to install the entire system using the connection to the ipfire virtual appliance08:19
bozoniusone explanation for the difference between install and run time is that08:19
bozoniusthe run time uses a different configuration for the networking08:19
bozoniusmaybe that means (if true) that those dhcp requests are generated whereas in the install time environment they don't get generated08:20
bozoniusidk, I'm really reaching here08:20
gnarfacethe installer might generate dhcp requests too08:21
bozoniusbut the connection never failed during the install08:21
gnarfacedhcpcanon dhcpcd5 isc-dhcp-client isc-dhcp-client-ddns pump08:21
gnarfaceyou don't have any of these right?08:21
bozoniusit only seems to take a minute or two to fail, and the install goes on logner than that08:22
bozoniusdhcpcanon  -- not sure08:22
gnarfaceoh, the installer would generate dhcp requests once and not anymore if you gave it a static ip at that point08:22
bozoniusone would think that giving a static ip in the installed environment would do likewise08:23
gnarfaceor, if it got a valid response, i guess08:23
gnarfaceyes, it's always been my experience that is all it takes08:23
bozoniusright... I am NOT running a dhcp server on the router08:23
gnarfacewhy you're seeing the requests is a mystery to me08:24
gnarfacebut i guess if you can check the MAC addresses do that08:24
bozoniusdo you see them on your ascii?08:24
bozoniusI mean, if you run wireshark do you see DHCP requests?08:24
bozoniusbtw, in the ipfire (router) logs, I can see the requests being rejected by the firewall08:25
bozonius"There already exists a minimal DHCP client implementation in the Linux kernel, but it lacks certain features such as configuring the DNS nameservers."08:28
bozonius(that's from 2011)08:28
bozoniusso your theory is quite possible08:28
bozoniusI suppose on an ipfire "blue" network, which is usually wireless clients, that it would make sense to reject these on connections that appear to have an address already bound (static ip)08:29
gnarfaceit could be a security feature, right08:30
gnarfacei can also confirm no dhcp requests on my lan anywhere08:30
gnarfacejust 3 irc networks and a tivo08:31
bozoniuswhat about your ascii system?08:31
gnarfacethere are ascii machines on that lan08:31
bozoniustomorrow I will seek out help from the ipfire folks, see what they can suggest08:32
gnarfacewhat about the vbox in the middle08:32
gnarfaceyou're routing through a vbox?08:32
bozoniusor... maybe there is another way to do this altogether08:32
gnarfacea virtual machine?08:32
gnarfaceit could be suspect too i think08:32
bozoniusyou are ALWAYS suspicious of anything *vbox* !!!08:32
bozoniusI don't know.  I doubt that is the problem aside from the possiblity of ipfire itself08:33
bozoniuslet me do some more poking around08:33
gnarfacewell it's something we're both missing08:33
gnarfacebut it's not something i'm seeing08:33
bozoniusso many potential un-subs08:34
gnarfaceit COULD be coming from the hardware in theory but that would be weird08:35
bozoniusI tend to think it is from the kernel also08:35
bozoniusand it could just be the way I've got ipfire configured08:35
gnarfaceis ipfire something you also installed on the test box?08:42
gnarfaceor is that just the router08:43
bozoniusno, it's just on the main system I use, the one that the testbox connects to08:48
bozoniussay, has there been a kernel update since I installed?08:49
bozoniusI wonder...08:49
bozoniusdoesn't seem to be08:49
bozoniuswell, I need to break for a bit08:51
bozoniusI'll try a few more things and get back to you08:52
]BFG[how good is the pulseaudio support in Devuan without shitd?12:30
]BFG[can I expect firefox/chrome/vlc work with HDMI audio out of the box?12:30
KatolaZ]BFG[: hos is pulseaudio related to systemd?12:32
djphKatolaZ: wasn't it written by dear leader lennart?12:34
KatolaZand this is sufficient to make it work only with systemd?12:35
KatolaZguys, let's try to leave religion out of technology :)12:35
KatolaZa couple of days ago I was asked if such and such backup software was "compatible" with sysvinit12:35
djphthat's dumb12:36
KatolaZwhy a backup software should know anything about which system is running as PID 1?12:36
djphI was just having a bit of fun with the question you "asked".12:36
KatolaZwell, a question about pulseadio is not much smarter12:36
KatolaZjaromil: that was the italian radio...12:36
jaromil]BFG[: afaik pulse is usable in devuan if you don't mind dbus12:37
james1138New question. I installed Wine into Devuan ASCII Xfce 32-bit with no problem but when I install any apps... neither the app nor Wine itself appears in the Whisker menu. Am I doing something wrong?17:53
golinuxIMO the whisker menu is wrong.  LOLOL!  In any case . . . none of the apps I have running on wine appear in the default Xfce menu either.18:02
golinuxI launch them from a custom entry in the panel.18:02
golinuxjames1138: ^^^18:03
james1138Well... upgrade Whisker menu and reboot did nothing.18:13
golinuxThe only time I ever saw wine added to the main menu was on squeeze/gnome218:15
james1138And... upgrade menulibre did nothing either.18:28
james1138Well... I was able to go into local/share/applications and at least create a working link to desktop.19:01
bozoniusvirtualbox for ascii?21:07
bozoniussynaptic search doesnt find it21:07
KatolaZbozonius: it's in contrib21:08
bozoniusdoes synaptic use the same sources as apt?21:10
bozoniusI'm not seeing "contrib" in synaptic repos21:10
KatolaZbozonius: you should add it in sources.list21:10
bozoniusIt is in there21:11
bozoniusjust not showing in synaptic21:11
KatolaZapt-cache policy virtualbox21:11
bozoniusbtw, KatolaZ,this is a brand new ascii install21:11
KatolaZit's in ascii-backports21:11
bozoniusI thought you said contrib21:12
KatolaZit's in contrib21:12
KatolaZin ascii-backports21:12
bozoniusbut anyway, no backports or contrib in synaptic21:12
KatolaZthe two are not incompatible21:12
KatolaZbozonius: ascii-backports is a suite21:12
KatolaZcontrib is a component of a suite21:12
bozoniusoh, wait21:13
bozoniusI see now -- contrib is a section in say deb-src, like that21:13
bozoniusapt search VirtualBox (and spelling variants) -- nada21:18
bozoniusapt search scribus returns list21:18
bozoniussame thing for apt-cache search21:19
bozoniusnada for vbox21:19
bozonius"VirtualBox is an open source x86 emulator, on Devuan is not possible to install because of systemd dependencies, for this reason I recompiled from source."  (Love the run-on sentences on the web...)21:24
bozoniusare you certain it is in the repos, KatolaZ?  I still am not able to get it21:25
bozoniusor do I need to add "backports" somewhere in my apt config?21:26
golinuxIn your sources.list21:28
amesserbozonius: maybe use qemu/libvirt instead?21:30
bozoniusascii, not jessie?21:31
bozoniusamesser:  Maybe I should use debian/somethingelse instead?21:31
bozoniusmaybe junk this whole thing and take up golf?21:32
amesserwell, was just an idea. i was using virtualbox for years, but since i figured out how to use qemu, well, i like it more21:32
bozoniusfuck computers altogether21:32
bozoniusI used to use qemu.21:32
bozoniusbut, atm, I am trying to install vbox host software, not qemu21:33
bozoniusgolinux:  this is ascii now, do I add the same syntax as for jessie repos?21:33
amesseryes, just replace ascii with jessie21:35
amesserhmm, strange21:36
amesserI have "deb ascii-backports main non-free contrib" in sources.list21:37
amesserbut aptitude search virtualbox returns nothing21:37
bozoniusmay I ask how ascii-backports got in there -- mine doesn't have that21:39
bozoniusamesser:  see my message at :24:17, above21:40
bozoniusit's everywhere21:40
fsmithredbozonius, backports is /merged not /devuan21:40
bozoniusI cannot escape from systemd21:40
bozoniusI can run, but I cannot hide21:41
bozoniusfsmithred?  I see "merged" in sources.list21:41
amessermy sources list was also wrong21:41
bozoniusI have not modified my sources.list21:41
fsmithredoh, that was amesser. sorry.21:41
bozoniusit is the one that came with the install (netinst)21:41
amesserbozonius: you have to edit sources.list and add the following:21:42
amesserdeb main non-free contrib21:42
bozoniusand you find virtualbox if you search?21:43
amesserthe save file and do:21:43
fsmithreddeb ascii-backports main non-free contrib21:43
fsmithredno slash after /merged21:43
amesserapt-get update21:43
amessershen you shoud find it21:43
bozoniusdo you find it?21:43
amesseryes afterwards i did21:43
bozoniusah, ok21:43
bozoniusso, no "-t" is needed?21:46
fsmithredto install it, you might need '-t ascii-backports'21:47
bozoniusI thought (for some reason) that one needed "-t backports" to get21:48
bozonius actually,no21:48
bozoniusapt install virtualbox does it21:48
bozoniusis there a way to prevent it from including backports by default?21:49
bozoniusnot sure I want to upgrade as much as it wants to21:49
fsmithredbozonius, try installing the deps from ascii, then try adding vbox again from backports21:50
fsmithredyou might not21:50
fsmithredneed everything from bpo21:50
fsmithredand if you want to prevent stuff from sneaking in, you can pin backports to a lower priority21:51
fsmithredor comment it out when you're done21:51
amesseri think it will not install packages by default from backports, only if you request package which is only in backports. see
bozoniusthanks fsmithred, that's what I needed to know21:53
bozoniusI think I'll just comment it out21:53
bozonius(for now...)21:53
bozoniusI note that in jessie, virtualbox is in contrib, not backports21:53
bozoniusseems to be anyway21:53
bozoniusfsmithred, it still wants to install all kinds of stuff, which I am not sure I want to do at this time21:55
fsmithredthere is no vbox in stretch/ascii, only in backports21:56
fsmithredalso in jessie, buster/beowulf and sid/ceres21:56
fsmithredadd '--no-install-recommends'21:57
bozoniushad to also install virtualbox-qt to get the UI22:35
bozoniusbut it is working now.22:35
bozoniusthanks all who have helped me.  amesser: I will try out qemu and other tools as I am able22:38
nacellebe sure to check out virt-manager if you do23:01
nacelleit makes qemu-kvm admin pretty simple, for the most part23:01
nacelleits... akin to the thick client of vmware... sort of.  Kind of.23:02

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