libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2018-07-07

Nematocystchanged video cards(downgraded to older card).  thought 'apt remove nvidia-driver' and 'apt install nvidia-legacy-304xx-driver' would be all needed.  but X doesn't start, dmesg indicates it is still using the current one (375.82) not 304xx.  how to fix?01:11
gnarfaceNematocyst: `dpkg -l |grep nvidia -i`02:13
gnarface(make sure all the versions match.  you probably have several packages still installed from the non-legacy version)02:13
Nematocystgnarface, i got it.  ultimately it was rebuilding the dkms module.  not sure which of the things i tried that forced it to rebuild.  but that fixed it02:19
gnarfaceah, yea, one of those packages is supposed to trigger it automatically but it doesn't always work02:21
epicmetalKatolaZ: ok so there are a number of packages that have a higher version in ASCII than they do in Ceres...05:36
epicmetale.g. dbus-x1105:36
epicmetalShould I be just pinning these to ASCII as I come across them, as a general solution?05:37
epicmetalIf I'm mainly running Ceres, that is05:37
epicmetalAnd some packages are just plain missing from Ceres but are available in ASCII, e.g. elogind05:41
epicmetalThis all seems quite forgeign to the Debian Way of doing things, and I'm wondering why thi sis05:41
epicmetalwhy this is*05:41
gnarfaceepicmetal: are you sure you're not seeing a disruption in a 3rd party mirror or else something they are doing upstream06:10
epicmetalgnarface: not sure. I'm using au.deb.devuan.org06:13
epicmetalStopping remaining crypto disks sda3_crypt (busy) ... failed06:27
epicmetalAnyone know why this is happening? I let d-i do its default "encrypted with LVM" partitioning and formatting without altering it06:28
epicmetalHmm. I think I should run Debian for a while before venturing into Devuan land06:52
golinuxUse the ASCII packages.07:05
golinuxWork was done in ASCII instead of Ceres.  But now that we are more synced with Debian, the changes will be made in Ceres and flow up to testing.07:07
golinuxepicmetal gnarface ^^^07:08
epicmetalgolinux: as in pin them like I'm doing? Or just avoid Ceres at all costs?07:08
golinuxThose packages 'should' work in Ceres.07:09
golinuxThere's only one way to gind out.  :D07:09
golinuxgind > find07:09
epicmetalgolinux: I'm having othe weirdness but I think it is Debian weirdness and not specific to Devuan. Namely, I installed and then purge/autoremoved lxqt but packages are hanging around, even after setting false for SuggestsImportant and RecommendsImportant07:11
epicmetale.g. lxqt-{policykit,powermanagement,session} still hang around for some reason07:12
epicmetal"aptitude why" explanations are inconsistent ot at least seem to be07:12
epicmetalSo I should probably spend more time with Debian to rule out Devuan issues, I guess07:13
golinuxHave you read the Release Nores?07:16
golinuxThe +kit stuff us really confusing.07:16
golinuxepicmetal: ^^^07:17
epicmetalgolinux: yes, but that's runtime dependencies, not apt/deb dependencies07:22
golinuxI know some users are running Ceres.07:32
epicmetalIt's Ceres or nothing, because ASCII/Stretch have showstopper bugs for me07:33
golinuxHave you looked in backtports?07:36
golinuxGetting late . . .07:36
epicmetalgolinux: it's a lib issue07:36
epicmetalAnd no, that lib isn't in backports07:37
epicmetalMy last viable non-systemd distro now is Void07:38
golinux    [ascii] libinput10-1.6.3-107:38
golinux    [beowulf] libinput10-1.11.1-107:38
golinux    [ceres] libinput10-1.11.1-107:38
golinuxThe one from ASCII doesn't work?07:39
epicmetalIt works but it is buggy07:39
golinuxThe other one doesn't wither?07:40
epicmetalKnown bug, fixed in pustream07:40
epicmetalgolinux: I haven't tried installing the Ceres one into ASCII, I just assumed it wouln't work given the minor version is different07:40
epicmetal6 -> 1107:40
golinuxI wish I could make it better07:41
golinuxNothing ventured!07:41
epicmetalHmm, they both provide so maybe07:46
epicmetalOne is linked to, the other is linked to
* epicmetal proceeds to reinstall ASCII07:48
gnarfaceepicmetal: maybe i can save you some time; if you are using Nvidia hardware and this is about Steam, you need to be running Ceres anyway, because it's the only one with new enough drivers07:59
epicmetalgnarface: intel08:00
gnarface(i blame Valve on that)08:00
epicmetalit's about my trackpoint08:00
gnarfacewell, just installing the ceres version may not work at least not stably, but there's a stronger chance that it will work stably if you rebuild the ceres package on ascii, using the ascii dependencies wherever possible08:01
epicmetalgnarface: that sounds hard to do properly08:01
gnarfaceit's sortof a gamble08:02
gnarfacethere's a relatively simple process using dpkg-buildpackage08:02
gnarfaceand if it works without needing changes to the code then you're good08:02
gnarfaceotherwise, you're S.O.L.08:02
gnarface(well not completely, as this situation will probably solve itself for you in a few days or weeks)08:03
epicmetalgnarface: how does it resolve in a few days or weeks? Isn't ASCII locked into its libinput10 version for life?08:05
gnarfaceyea, but it's not locked into a broken version for life08:07
gnarfacethe version number isn't everything08:07
gnarfacethere's a very high likelyhood that if you're not the only one experiencing this bug, that it will be fixed and a patch will be backported08:07
epicmetalOk, but I'll be very surprised if this specific fix is backported08:07
epicmetalI hope it is, though08:08
gnarfacei don't know but in general it happens all the time08:08
epicmetalIt's a known bug, documented08:08
gnarfaceno known workarounds documented?08:08
epicmetal"upgrade your lib"08:09
gnarfaceso you add the ceres src line (just the src line) to your sources.list,08:09
gnarfacethen you: apt-get source [package name]08:10
gnarfacethat downloads the package to current directory08:10
gnarfacei guess it might need to be apt-get -t ceres source [package name]08:10
epicmetalWhy is apt-get dist upgrade trying to install Ceres packages if I've set APT::Default-Release "ascii"; ?08:10
gnarfacedon't dist-upgrade with ceres still in your sources.list08:11
gnarfacecomment that out when you're done with it08:11
epicmetalIsn't that what default-release is to prevent?08:11
gnarfacehmmm. should be honestly but dist-upgrade might override it if ceres bins are in your sources.list?08:12
gnarfacei don't know08:12
gnarfacejust get the ceres source package and try to build it with dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc08:12
gnarfaceyou will probably have to get the build dependencies first (they're different from the runtime dependencies)08:13
gnarfacei gotta go now but i'll be back later08:13
epicmetalgnarface: yeah, this is getting hairy.08:23
epicmetalfind: 'debian/tmp': No such file or directory08:24
epicmetaldebian/rules:11: recipe for target 'override_dh_install' failed08:24
epicmetalI'm way out of my depth in terms of Debian-fu08:24
gnarfaceepicmetal: you ran it from inside the src directory?  and you had all the build depends?  "apt-get build-dep [package name]" and "apt-get install build-essential" may help10:05
epicmetalgnarface: yep10:05
gnarfacesounds like a mess10:05
gnarfacesorry i got nothing10:05
epicmetalit was10:05
gnarfacewhat do you need the new one for?  device support?10:05
epicmetalThat's probably a good thing, because I blew the install away10:05
epicmetalYeah, without the new one, the mouse acceleration is unfixably slow10:06
gnarfaceoh, that sucks10:06
epicmetalIt really does10:06
KatolaZepicmetal: wazzup?10:06
epicmetalKatolaZ: hi! Installing Sid...10:06
KatolaZwhat are you trying to build?10:07
epicmetalI was trying to backport Ceres' libinput10 to ASCII10:07
KatolaZa particular reason for that?10:07
epicmetalKatolaZ: Stretch/ASCII version has a known bug that makes my trackpoint move too slowly10:08
epicmetalCeres was not working for me, so Sid it is, for now10:09
epicmetalAlthough kudos to whoever picked the Ceres codename, it sounds cool10:10
epicmetalNot sure I agreed with calling Devuan 1.0 the same as the Debian codename it was based on, though...10:10
KatolaZepicmetal: tbh the names of releases are the least of my concern...10:11
KatolaZif it were on my, I would hve called them a, b, c, d, e...10:11
epicmetalI'm glad it wasn't up to you then ;)10:12
epicmetalSingle char codenames and codenames shared with other distros make conversation and Googling difficult10:12
KatolaZconfusion is only in the mind of confused people :)10:13
epicmetalKatolaZ: it's more a matter of convenience than confusion10:17
gnarfaceceres didn't work?10:17
gnarfacewhy not?10:17
gnarfacei doubt sid will if ceres didn't10:17
gnarfaceit's usually a kernel issue10:18
KatolaZepicmetal: it was exactly a matter of convenience10:18
KatolaZit made a lot of sense to call the first Devuan Jessie10:19
epicmetalgnarface: Ceres is fine, I'm just not that well versed in advanced Debian10:19
epicmetalgnarface: I figure it's best if I run Sid for a while so that I can familiarise myself with that first10:19
gnarfacei think it'll just pollute your mind but it's your call10:19
epicmetalInstead of always wondering "is this a Debian thing or a Devuan thing"10:19
gnarfacelol i think you'll end up installing windows10:20
KatolaZgnarface: namely10:20
epicmetalgnarface: I already have that installed on another machine10:20
KatolaZI have heard this many times10:20
KatolaZepicmetal: if you are fine with Debian Sid, you probably don't need Devuan at all10:20
epicmetalKatolaZ: how so?10:20
gnarfacethe package selection is almost identical10:21
KatolaZepicmetal: why do you need to change distro if the current one works fine?10:22
epicmetalThere is no "current one", the laptop was wiped10:22
epicmetalOh, you mean why move away from Ceres?10:22
KatolaZso you have never used linux before?10:22
epicmetalOh. Well I was on Arch prior to all this10:22
gnarfacehe had ascii on there but it's libintput is too old for his hardware10:23
epicmetalI thought I'd try non-systemd land10:23
KatolaZoh, that's why you decided to install Debian sid then :D10:23
epicmetalKatolaZ: all the non-systemd distros on my shortlist got too hard10:23
KatolaZtoo hard?10:23
KatolaZand do you think that Debian Sid is easier?10:24
epicmetalNo, but I'm in a Debian mood now after Devuan :)10:24
epicmetalI really should be just trying to get Void Linux to work10:24
epicmetalI've been drooling over that for a while10:25
KatolaZsorry, I have never chosen distros based on mood, so I can't help here ;)10:25
epicmetalKatolaZ: I figure running Sid is easier than running Ceres, because it is one less unknown10:25
epicmetalThat's all10:25
epicmetalIf I get good with Sid, I can migrate again10:26
KatolaZepicmetal: I am just trying to say that this is probably not the case, but YMMV10:26
KatolaZif you have never used a debian-based distro before, you shouldn't stay on unstable10:26
KatolaZbecause you will end up throwing your computer out of the window10:27
epicmetalKatolaZ: for example, when the dpkg-buildpackage failed before, I was wondering "is this some Devuan quirk or would this have happened on Debian"10:27
KatolaZwithin a couple of weeks10:27
epicmetalKatolaZ: I've run Debian before, including Sid10:27
KatolaZor maybe earlier10:27
KatolaZoh then you are fine10:27
epicmetalI've run most distros :)10:28
KatolaZoh lucky you10:28
epicmetalOh yeah, living the dream here10:28
KatolaZI have run only five or six10:28
epicmetalArch was the comfiest I got10:28
epicmetalI'll probably end up back there after I've exhausted myself10:28
epicmetalIs it weird for a distro installer to write the root password of the target system into a file in a tmpfs?10:30
epicmetalIt seems odd to me10:30
KatolaZepicmetal: ?10:30
epicmetalNevermind, offtopic10:31
aitori'm trying to finish simple-netaid-gtk13:19
aitortomorrow i'll upload funtional packages13:19
aitorneed to go, i'll be here this afternoon13:19
* mirda disconnect15:45
TheBlueWizardis it OK to comment out apt/source.list line that has [cdrom] in it after installing from dvd? I thought it was already disabled but apt update complains about not being able to update from cdrom16:37
fsmithredTheBlueWizard, yes, comment out the cdrom line.16:51
g4570nviste la preg que te dejé en el canal de devuan en telegram?17:13
TheBlueWizardwhich tool/utility would let me 'magnify' the screen (in X session, of course)?20:28
MinceRxmag, kmag20:29
TheBlueWizardhmm...I found kmag in synaptics, but no xmag....I guess it is not packaged in devuan space21:02
nacellexmag probably comes with some standard x11 utils package21:02
* TheBlueWizard notes that kmag has numerous dependencies, and believes xmag would be more lightweight21:03
TheBlueWizardmaybe....I guess it would be launched from command shell21:03
* TheBlueWizard thinks magnifier should be included in accessibility menu...he uses magnifier a lot on Windows (both at work and at home) cuz his vision is not so 20/20 anymore21:04
nacellePackage: x11-apps21:05
nacelleVersion: 7.7+421:05
nacelleInstalled-Size: 204421:05
nacelleMaintainer: Debian X Strike Force <>21:05
nacelleArchitecture: amd6421:05
nacelleReplaces: bitmap, oclock, transset, x11perf, xbase-clients (<= 1:7.2.ds2-3), xbiff, xcalc, xclipboard, xclock, xconsole, xcursorgen, xditview, xeyes, xgc, xload, xlogo, xmag, xman, xmore, xwd, xwud21:05
nacelletry the x11-apps package21:05
nacelleit has xmag in it21:05
nacelleI'm guessing that if you have x11 installed you probably have xmag installed already21:06
* nacelle hopes that helps out TheBlueWizard21:06
* TheBlueWizard searches...sees x11-apps already installed, though Synaptics doesn't list the contents21:06
nacelleapt-cache show x11-apps21:23
AlexLikeRockhow to open "EML" extention files ?21:33
TheBlueWizardI searched...found info on what EML is:
TheBlueWizardthat should serve as a starting point for finding tools to open that file21:54
* TheBlueWizard tried out xmag...and is just take a static snapshot of a small dynamic viewing21:58
MinceRkmag has dynamic vewing22:05
MinceR> magnifier should be included in accessibility menu22:05
MinceRit probably is, if it's installed22:05
fsmithredI think it comes with gnome-accessibility-theme22:07
TheBlueWizardMinceR: there is no magnifier utility in the accessibility menu (when installed from a DVD)...that's why I'm searching...ok re: kmag; will install that then22:11
TheBlueWizardkmag installed....tried works, but I keep getting the error message "QDBusObjectPath: invalid file """....any idea why?22:33
MinceRdbugs is like that22:36
TheBlueWizardare you saying dbus can get glitchy?22:36
* TheBlueWizard notes the wrong word....s/file/path/22:37
MinceRno, i'm saying dbugs is a big glitch22:37 you're saying dbus is buggy by nature??? if so, that's crazy!22:38
MinceRit's defective by design22:42
TheBlueWizardI see22:45

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