libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2018-07-24

patrickrThank you gnarface!00:28
gnarfacepatrickr: no problem04:15
gnarfaceminnesotags: i feel your pain... that might be a legit bug in the init scripts or driver.  maybe something to do with the driver not bringing the hardware up quickly enough for the first init pass...04:16
gnarfacethe fact it works for most people suggests there's fringe behavior in your case... i'm curious if that fix helps anyone else on other laptop models04:17
patrickrgnar: it *appears* to be working after a resize, but I'm having weird hangs and crashes; fsck -f give the all clear04:19
patrickrrelated or not you think?04:20
gnarfacesince the bug in question happens with fsck too, not just resize, chances are it's the same bug04:20
gnarfacesorry, i should have mentioned that04:20
gnarfacebasically if you use e2fsprogs from ascii or later on any ext4 filesystem formatted with an earlier version of the tools, it corrupts the journal instantly and irreparably, but the actual symptoms of the filesystem unravelling may take days or weeks to actually appear04:22
gnarfacehow long depends on the type of i/o traffic probably, and the type of storage media04:22
gnarfacebut i don't even know that much for sure, it's based on casual observation04:22
patrickra perfect storm04:23
gnarfaceno, the part that makes it a perfect storm is that the ext* programmers are trying to bury this mistake out of shame04:23
gnarfacethey should have put a warning label on it04:23
gnarfacei believe some of the devuan ARM images for jessie may have a patched version of the e2fsprogs shipped with them to mitigate this disaster for devuan04:25
gnarfacebut that won't save anyone who is upgrading from debian04:25
gnarface(or raspbian)04:25
patrickrok, i'll have to build an ascii image from scratch then, using a stretch box i've got04:26
gnarfaceto be perfectly honest though, it could also be a problem with the SD card04:26
gnarfacethere's no way for me to distinguish, based only on the anecdotal evidence04:26
gnarfaceif you use a different filesystem entirely and then it STILL fails though, then you know for sure04:26
gnarfaceif you're trying to make it happen faster, my best guess on how would be to write and delete a lot of files to it04:27
gnarfacei don't think it will matter what, as long as it takes up a lot of space04:27
patrickrseems to happen when I apt install04:27
gnarfaceyea, that's why i ditched raspbian too04:28
patrickrbut there could be some weirdness happening with the kernel too04:29
patrickrbecause it also seems to be connected with x running -- then again there's probably more files being used then as well04:31
patrickri'll let you know how things work out later this week04:35
minnesotagsgnarface: I really can't say about other people's sound experience. These toughbooks are kind of a unique case. I had thought it was a driver, or pulseaudio thing, but I saw about just running the init, tried that and had success. Rebooted, didn't work until I ran alsa-utils init, so I added it so it ran at the end. Success!06:10
grillonhi gnarface, seems you met another sdcard corruption case07:10
gnarfaceyes grillon but it's not clear whether his situation is based on hardware failure too or not.  is the second card still fine for you?07:48
gnarfaceminnesotags: you should bring that up in #alsa... that's a really weird bug but seems like it should be simple to fix if all it takes is a second run of the alsa-utils init script07:49
gnarfaceminnesotags: you're sure it gets run once during boot up already though, right?  maybe it's getting run too early, like before the audio module is even loaded?07:50
gnarfaceit shouldn't be different for you but like i said... race conditions are possible...07:50
gnarface(i've seen weirder stuff happen)07:50
gnarfacei'm wondering if some strange corner case is causing it to error out the first time07:54
gnarfacei've seen some weird stuff07:54
gnarfaceonce i saw a bios power management setting expose a weird bug in the init scripts that made boot up halt after every text line unless i kept hitting enter07:55
xrogaanhow is it possible that debian source backport for a package is of a different version than the actual .deb?08:02
xrogaan> !=
gnarfacebackports always have "bpo" in their version strings, amongst other differences08:03
gnarfacethe version has to be different or the package won't upgrade08:03
gnarfaceit's a fundamental of the the way dpkg and apt work08:03
gnarfacepackage version priority is literally determined by string comparison of the version string08:03
gnarface(unless overridden through pinning or manual intervention)08:04
gnarfacealso, there's actually no mandate in Debian that the binary packages even have to be buildable from the accompanying source08:05
gnarfacethere's no mandate they even have to be built on Debian08:05
gnarfacethere's in fact no mandate the source package has to have a reproducable build08:05
gnarfacethough, because of that, you can quickly evaluate the quality of software by the ones that do08:05
gnarfacei remember hearing a few years back that there was noise in Debian leadership about trying to encourage better enforcement of that but nobody seemed to want to go so far as to make it a requirement08:06
gnarface(i too was shocked and dismayed to find out it hadn't been all along)08:06
xrogaanwell, the whole mate backport got update except for a few packages.08:09
gnarfaceso yea, if you're trying to recreate a binary .deb from the accompanying source package and it doesn't seem possible, don't worry, you might not be crazy.  it really may not work, and the binary package may be just a ball of duct-tape and unidentified skeletons08:09
xrogaansettings daemon is one of them. The .deb is still the old version, but the source, as shown on their webpage, is the new one.08:09
xrogaan(it actually slightly breaks mate)08:10
gnarfacewhat happens when you try to build it yourself?  does it build?08:10
gnarfacesometimes this is just due to compiler glitches or multiarch dependency conflicts that haven't been resolved anywhere but outside the developer's own sandbox08:10
gnarfacesometimes you can get around those issues with messy hacks that allow the package to build but then break further upgrades to that system08:11
xrogaanMight be the build system lagging too.08:12
gnarfaceyea, or mirror update delay...08:12
xrogaanthere are stuff stuck in "installed" for more than a year.08:20
gnarfacehmmm, i wonder if those are packages that have devuan-specific patches to get around upstream systemd requirements?08:22
gnarfacei thought that whole mate package set was in fact such a thing, but i don't know08:22
gnarfacea bunch of packages dropped lm-sensors support in favor of something in systemd that apparently can't be replicated08:23
gnarfacethat stuff is just basically taped up and sent in broken08:23
xrogaanmate should be systemd free, I meant in the debian build tracker, there are some packages that are listen in there for more than a year.08:23
gnarfaceoh, indeed08:23
gnarfacewell this is all just speculation on my part, i don't know wtf is going on08:24
xrogaanis there a build log for devuan?08:24
gnarfacegood question, but i don't know08:24
gnarfacei assume there is one but i don't know if it's public08:24
gnarfacewould it make sense for it to be in the gitlab?08:24
gnarfacedevuan's private gitlab is at git.devuan.org08:24
xrogaanshould be this
xrogaanoh sorry, I meant "uploaded" not "installed"08:27
golinuxOr this:
xrogaanI don't know what those are, the ci website show actual builds and failures.08:32
golinuxSorry just now seeing the bit about the build log.08:35
TetraletHi, I have a clean installed devuan beowulf amd64 system. I tried to install wine32-development package but failed.09:46
Tetralet # It's install log09:46
TetraletAny idea?09:46
minnesotagsgnarface: I wonder what logs I would need to supply?09:53
gnarfaceno idea, minnesotags09:54
minnesotagsyup. It's cool. just curious.09:54
gnarfacei think it's actually something to do with the contents of /usr/share/alsa09:58
gnarfaceyou could try checking it before and after that second alsa-utils run, but i wouldn't know how to spot something wrong with it09:59
Criggiedoes anyone have xine  installed successfully in devuan ascii ?11:31
CriggieI think I had it installed from but its vanished in an upgrade the other week11:31
KatolaZCriggie: it works over here11:43
KatolaZno need to use dmo any more11:43
Criggieokay thats useful - thank you11:43
Criggiehmmm bother - I still get dependency problems like    " xine-ui : Depends: libxine2 (>= 1.2.0) but it is not going to be installed11:45
Criggiehmmm - its got some deb-multimedia packages somewhere11:46
Criggie libxine2-ffmpeg : Depends: libxine2-bin (= 1.2.6-1.3) but 1:1.2.9-dmo4 is to be installed11:46
gnarfaceyou might have to remove them all first11:46
KatolaZCriggie: you don't need dmo repos any more11:53
Criggiegnarface: yep perfect thats worked.  Its decided to add some i386 packages like  libavutil55:i386   which seems odd... but the blocker was    libxine2-bin:amd64 (1:1.2.9-dmo4)  and perhaps  libxine2-doc (1:1.2.9-dmo4)11:53
CriggieKatolaZ: I was unaware of that till today.11:53

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