libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2018-09-25

* man_in_shack waves11:21
man_in_shackis there a comparison of the different init services listed somewhere? :)11:25
ryuujinman_in_shack: in gentoo wiki there's a  nice comparison:
DocScrutinizer05UGH  [DNG] jaromil >>  licensing-wise has a rather dodgy change to MIT<<  WRF how could they change licensing from GPL to anything else?14:14
DocScrutinizer05ROTFL  >>It can also be downloaded from Microsoft Store at a 50% discount,<<14:16
man_in_shackwat wat wat14:56
man_in_shack"custom linux distro optimised for windows 10"?14:56
nemowell, windows 10 does have that linux-compatible posix subsystem now14:57
nemobut. yeah ☺14:57
nemoah. that's exactly what the article is about14:58
man_in_shackreading up on all the bullshit systemd does on suckless.org15:02
man_in_shackand why debian deicded to go with systemd in the first place15:02
man_in_shackand i'm sitting here wondering, why is having PID1 talk over dbus considered a GOOD thing?15:03
man_in_shackwhat possible advantage can that have?15:03
MinceRi wonder how is it a "Linux distro" if it doesn't even contain Linux15:09
man_in_shackthat's slashdot for you15:13
fsmithredman_in_shack, PID1 needs to control everything to make sure it's done the right way. 'Cause the old way is wrong.15:18
nemoman_in_shack: you'd probably enjoy my fav rant I ran into on without-systemd.org15:33
nemolemme dig it up15:33
nemooof.  lot of articles in
nemotrying to rember. it was a good rant.15:35
man_in_shackyah, i did a little reading there too15:36
nemoAnd yes, a large part of this may be that I no longer feel like I can15:43
nemotrust "init" to do the sane thing. You all presumably know why.15:43
nemo-- linux15:43
nemogod my fingers keep wanting to type s15:43
nemo*x aaaagh15:43
nemoman_in_shack:  ← this was my favourite rant - had to go into the history to find it15:46
nemosomeone removed it from list of articles ☹15:46
nemoman_in_shack: apparently someone doesn't enjoy a good rant.15:46
man_in_shacktrying to switch from debian to devuan and apt is ignoring all the devuan files15:54
KatolaZman_in_shack: what do you mean?15:54
KatolaZwhich debian release?15:54
KatolaZwhich Devuan repos are you using?15:55
KatolaZare you going through the upgrade howto?15:55
KatolaZ <- man_in_shack15:55
man_in_shackwasn't working with deb.devuan, is working with pkgmaster.devuan15:58
man_in_shackdeb/sid => devu/ceres15:58
KatolaZdefine "wasn't working|"16:00
jaromili actually am just hitting a bug in dash16:01
man_in_shack"wasn't working" = Ign on every devuan file when doing apt update16:01
man_in_shackand looping16:01
jaromilbut is unrelated16:01
KatolaZcan you please try again?16:01
KatolaZjaromil:bug in dash?16:01
jaromilhowever beowulf gets a new dash package from debian which is broken16:01
jaromilAdding 'diversion of /usr/share/man/man1/sh.1.gz to /usr/share/man/man1/sh.distrib.1.gz by dash'16:01
KatolaZwhich one ?16:01
jaromilErrors were encountered while processing:16:01
jaromil /var/cache/apt/archives/dash_0.5.10.2-1_amd64.deb16:01
jaromilE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)16:02
man_in_shackstill Ign16:02
jaromilalso visible here
KatolaZman_in_shack: which line are you using?16:02
KatolaZjaromil: I have that package installed16:02
KatolaZwas upgraded yesterday I guess16:03
man_in_shackdeb [allow-insecure=yes arch=amd64] ceres main16:03
KatolaZman_in_shack: http not https16:04
KatolaZthere is no https support for deb.devuan.org16:04
KatolaZit's a DNS rr16:04
jaromilKatolaZ: i think it breaks on minimal systems16:04
jaromilthat have no manpages16:04
jaromilor something like that16:04
KatolaZif you want https, use one of the mirrors listed at
man_in_shackoop (:16:04
KatolaZman_in_shack: ^^^^16:04
KatolaZjaromil: I see16:04
man_in_shackthat makes sense then16:04
KatolaZwe sould investigate that I guess16:05
KatolaZjaromil: is that image obtained with debootstrap?16:05
KatolaZor by "other means"?16:05
KatolaZmaybe some package has been promoted to "essential" and you are not pulling it by not using debootstrap <- jaromil16:06
man_in_shackwho wants to buy me an internet connection i can run an australian mirror on? :D16:06
man_in_shack"update-rc.d: warning: start and stop actions are no longer supported" the fuck?16:12
man_in_shacki assume that's some systemd shit16:12
man_in_shackhuh. lightdm depends on libpam-systemd | consolekit [UNAVAILABLE]16:14
jaromilKatolaZ: yes, the base image is obtained by update from debian16:16
jaromilas per olaf meuwissen's base docker images16:16
man_in_shackconsolekit in experimental and ascii but not beowolf or ceres16:17
golinuxman_in_shack: The best rant ever!
* golinux is just now reading the backlogs16:23
man_in_shackdo i want polkit-backend-consolekit or polkit-backend-elogind? :)16:24
fsmithredman_in_shack, it depends on whether you're using consolekit or elogind16:25
man_in_shackwell if i go with sysvinit-core + consolekit, elogind also got selected by aptitude16:26
fsmithredwhat's pulling in elogind?16:27
fsmithredwhat desktop and display manager do you have?16:27
fsmithred(or want)16:28
golinuxman_in_shack: Read the ascii release notes:
man_in_shackaptitude is selecting libpam-elogind from policykit-116:31
man_in_shackok, i've selected packages differently, now it wants consolekit :P16:33
man_in_shackbut looks like lightdm works better with elogind16:33
golinuxman_in_shack: Yes.  There is a post about that on the forum.16:38
fsmithredpower buttons in lightdm seem to need consolekit16:41
fsmithredbb in 20min16:43
fsmithredthis might be helpful:
man_in_shackoh fun16:48
man_in_shacksysvinit has decided to kexec instead of rebooting :P16:48
man_in_shackneed to see sysvinit boot log17:07
man_in_shackkexec seems unhappy with me :D17:57
man_in_shackso, sysvinit + elogind, getting a message on boot, "udevd: Error running install command for nvidia"18:01
man_in_shack/lib/udev/nvidia_helper runs /lib/udev/udev-acl, which is only present in consolekit package18:03
man_in_shackhuh. switching to consolekit didn't fix that error18:07
man_in_shackalthough it doesn't seem to affect functionality at all18:07
man_in_shackswitching to consolekit DID fix lightdm's power menu though :D18:08
man_in_shackwelp so much for systemd being about speed. shave off 2 seconds of my boot time by switching to sysvinit18:11
man_in_shackopenrc in parallel mode is even faster again18:33
man_in_shacki can probably cut it down further by fixing some semi-broken stuff :D18:34
telst4rit's all about boot time, right ? :D18:36
man_in_shackif systemd was faster than alternatives, i'd be both confused and disappointed18:39
sxpertsystemd is broken by design18:40
man_in_shackconfused because it's a massively bloated piece of shit18:40
man_in_shackdisappointed because leaner alternatives should be faster by definition18:41
sxpertI don't really care about being fast, I don't reboot machines often18:41
telst4rI'm not sure about that. if it's just a yuge pile of doo, wouldn't it require less of calls and buses and inter-operability with other programs? hence less waiting and memory lookups (In very loosely thought theory)18:42
sxpertI'd rather have a does one thing at a time, reliably, thing, that this pile of garbage18:43
* man_in_shack agrees with sxpert18:43
man_in_shackthe fuck does PID1 need dbus for? (:18:44
telst4rsxpert, oh you unix ppl.. :)18:44
sxpertthe fuck does PID1 needs a integrated webserver and QRcodes display18:44
sxperttelst4r: hehe18:45
telst4rsxpert, well.. if they're ever gonna create a bitcoin fullnode in systemd it has this qr display....18:45
sxperttelst4r: EDONTCARE18:45
sxpertuseless piece of junk spotted ;-) (both systemd and bitcoin)18:46
* sxpert proposes to hang this lennard fellow next time he shows up ;)18:48
man_in_shackthe fuck does PID1 need any networking stuff at all?18:48
man_in_shacknetwork stuff breaking was what pushed me over the edge18:49
man_in_shackeverything else i can put up with systemd being bloated, insecure, poorly designed shit18:50
telst4r"just don't run it" -- alright, thanks for the advice.18:50
* sxpert goes back to twm.. none of that systemd/wayland bullshit18:51
* man_in_shack throws ncurses at sxpert18:51
sxpertthank you !18:52
man_in_shacknothing inherently wrong with wayland18:53
man_in_shackalthough it wouldn't surprise me if systemd ends up with a wayland server in it18:53
sxpertcan't do remote display... can't use it18:53
man_in_shacksend all your pixels via dbus18:54
* telst4r throws up error messages18:54
* sxpert throws up...18:55
DocScrutinizer05>>send all your pixels via dbus<< afaik some 100% braindead linux variant for automotive aka car entertainment already does exactly that19:16
sxpertwell automotive devs are the worst ever19:18
telst4rWhy run linux in a car in the 1st place?19:18
DonkeyHoteimost cars run Windows Automotive19:18
sxperttelst4r: considering what tesla does with it, it's a good match19:19
sxpertDonkeyHotei: which regularly blue screens19:19
telst4rI'd hate to have a blue screen in the middle of a highway passing somebody..19:21
telst4r"the driver has performed an illegal operation and will be terminated"19:21
DocScrutinizer05old joke modified: "you changed the setting of the mouse ^H steering wheel. Please restart the system to make the change take effect"19:32
telst4rThat was pretty close to the reality back in the days :P19:35
buZzi found a 'bug' :P22:42
buZz> sudo apt install screenfetch ; screenfetch22:43
buZzdoesnt know what devuan is :P nor does it have a logo22:43
DocScrutinizer05sounds like an upstream bug, tbh23:16

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