libera/#devuan/ Thursday, 2018-10-04

gnarfacewhat's that say?00:00
fugitivelrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Oct  3 22:24 /bin/sh -> /bin/busybox00:00
fugitivelolz :)00:00
gnarfaceso, that's a lot worse00:00
gnarfacecomically so00:00
gnarfacehang on there should be a package you dpkg-reconfigure to set this00:01
gnarfacewhat happens if you just run `dpkg-reconfigure dash` then check it again?00:01
fugitivei do usually with chsh or manually in /etc/passwd00:01
gnarfaceon ceres here, /bin/sh points to dash now by default00:02
gnarfaceyea, that's what you want.  say yes to that00:02
gnarfaceit's fine to set your regular non-root desktop user's default shell to zsh from /etc/passwd.  *do not do that* for the system users, the root user, or for the /bin/sh symlink00:03
fugitiveokay,, but that didn't updated the sym link, guess some ``update-alternatives``00:04
fugitivecopy that00:04
fugitiveto do it manually ?00:04
gnarfaceupdate-alternatives is the symlink management system... it should be capable of managing itself but maybe not with busybox as the system shell.  so, yes, verify the /bin/sh symlink manually if necessary00:05
gnarfacehopefully running package upgrades through busybox didn't corrupt anything too badly00:06
gnarfaceit could be really far off the rails by now but if this just started happening this morning maybe it's not too late to save00:06
fugitiveone sec00:09
fugitivegnarface: no, nothing still ..
gnarfacefugitive: make sure /bin/dash isn't also a symlink00:13
fugitiveyea, checked that00:13
fugitiveroot@devuan-lap:/tmp# which dash | xargs ls -l00:13
fugitive-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 117208 Jan 24  2017 /bin/dash00:13
gnarfacedo you have bash installed still?00:14
fugitivetried with symlinking to bash as well :)00:14
gnarfacesame error both ways, really?00:14
fugitiveokay, i think here is something usefull.. i think i have some issue with shared libs00:15
fugitivei enabled debugging in dpkg postinstall script and take a look:00:15
fugitiveso ldconfig was actually giving those weird messages00:16
* man_in_shack stares at fugitive00:17
gnarfacelet's see00:17
gnarfaceceres does NOT use dash by default, i'm using bash here.  i was mistakenly in an remote shell to an arm device running ascii that had defaulted to dash.  i don't have busybox anywhere00:18
gnarfacenot as a default shell anyway00:18
fsmithredweird: --verbose is not an option in jessie's ldconfig, but is in ascii's ldconfig (according to man pages)00:18
gnarfacethe ldconfig issue you're having, i'm not clear on if it's a parsing error from the ldconfig command itself, or from that tangle of chained conditionals before it00:19
gnarfacebut that ldconfig binary is in the libc-bin package in question so...00:19
fugitiveit is from ldconfig itself00:19
gnarfaceif you run `ldconfig --verbose` at the command line, what do you get?00:19
fugitivesame like from postinstall script hehe
gnarfaceif it's the same error, maybe you can just omit the " --verbose" part from the script and it will complete.  that doesn't explain what went wrong or why i didn't run into it on any of my systems, but it might not matter after that00:20
fugitivei could hack it like that.. but.. :/ it is bit weird that ldconfig doesn't work :/00:21
fugitiveno, that wouldn't work00:22
gnarfacewhy not?00:22
fugitiveroot@devuan-lap:/tmp# ldconfig || echo $?00:22
fugitiveldconfig returns error00:22
fugitiveeven w/o verbose00:23
gnarfacewhat about `ldconfig -v`00:23
fugitiveoutputs nothing, but returns exit status 100:24
gnarfaceinteresting.  so that's different for me on ascii, jessie, and ceres.00:25
fugitivethis is strace output, if someone see something interesting....
gnarface`ldconfig`, `ldconfig -v`, and `ldconfig --verbose` all 3 work as expected for me and return 0, even on jessie00:26
gnarfaceso what's different about your ldconfig?00:26
fugitivemy is  on ascii ? :)))00:26
fugitivedunno man, really have no idea :(00:27
gnarfacewell your ldconfig shouldn't be the problem, based on empirical evidence on hand.  so maybe one of the other packages it depends on also failed to update properly but went unnoticed00:28
gnarfacefugitive: what do you get from this command?  `dpkg -l |grep '^ii\|rc' -v`00:29
gnarfaceany package names?00:29
gnarfacei mean, any package names other than libc-bin00:29
fugitiveone thing i did.. , i did ``rm /var/cache/ldconfig/aux-cache'' , and guess this is this consequence.. and yes i am an idiot listening low rep profiles00:29
fugitivei get this:00:30
fugitiveiF  libc-bin                                  2.24-11+deb9u3                                 amd64        GNU C Library: Binaries00:30
fugitivehi  skypeforlinux                                                         amd64        Skype keeps the world talking, for free.00:30
fugitiveskype is just holded due some bug they have in recent version00:30
gnarfaceheh, skype.  only those two?00:30
gnarfacehah yea you really shot yourself in the foot here00:30
gnarfacethis is a good one00:31
gnarfacei don't even know exactly how this went wrong00:31
fugitivein a head bro :))00:31
gnarfacebut i guess if ldconfig relies on libraries to work and it's the binary that caches the libraries and you kill the cache the wrong way .... then i guess it can't update it's own cache anymore?00:31
gnarfacei've never seen it like this before00:32
gnarfaceand i am having trouble believing that the symlink from /bin/sh to busybox had nothing to do with it00:32
gnarfaceat this point i would be considering trying to downgrade or uninstall libc-bin to reinstall it... maybe chrooted in from a bootable live image00:33
gnarfaceit's probably worth mentioning that it would be quicker to restore from backup but i'm assuming that isn't an option00:34
fugitivei am suspecting it is my idiocy with removing ''/var/cache/ldconfig/aux-cache'' blindly.. dunno for what is for..00:34
gnarfacemaybe it's a backup of /etc/
fsmithredmv /var/lib/dpkg/info/PAQUET.* /tmp/00:35
fsmithreddpkg --remove --force-remove-reinstreq PAQUET00:35
fsmithredreplace PAQUET with libc-bin00:35
fsmithredand then you can install libc-bin00:35
gnarfacethanks fsmithred00:35
fsmithredsomeone posted that here about a week ago, and then I needed it a few days ago00:36
fugitivecan\t remove it..
fugitivesame was going with apt, so i didn't want to proceed to not fck up even more00:37
fsmithreddid you try 'aptitude reinstall libc-bin'?00:37
fugitiveno, tried apt, apt-get00:38
fsmithredsometimes aptitude is smarter, but I wouldn't hold my breath on this one00:38
fugitive check00:39
fugitiveffs :D00:39
gnarfacedoes that mean it worked?00:39
gnarfacelooks like it worked00:40
fugitiveshit, thanks to both!00:40
gnarfaceno problem.  don't forget you need to reboot after those kernel upgrades00:40
gnarface(linux-headers-* and linux-image-* are kernel packages)00:41
ServiceRobothello gentlemen00:41
fugitiveyeah, when i get more courage and sleep to handle any further issues :D00:41
gnarfacefugitive: this is important.  it is *essential* you do not attempt any further installations or upgrades between this kernel upgrade and your next reboot00:42
gnarfaceit will almost never matter but when it does, it matters in a BIG way00:42
fugitiveyea yea, i don't like it , coz need to handle all kernel related dkms stuff.. nvidia, virtual box etc.. but meh :)00:43
gnarfaceyea, nvidia/dkms stuff is one of the primary things that can choke badly on this00:43
gnarfaceit really doesn't like it when the running kernel doesn't match the installed kernel00:44
fugitiveagree, but ever since idk for how many years i am running *nix, wasn't issues (afaik)00:45
fugitivebtw, my ldconfig is back working as well :-)00:45
gnarfacewell, the thing is, you may have run into failure cases before but not realized it.  the type of errors it causes you see aren't always apparent at the time of the incident - usually they appear months or years later during subsequent upgrade00:46
fugitive+1 on that00:47
gnarfaceso, ever done a big upgrade and the nvidia drivers stop working right until you reinstall?  and the reinstall process seems to run roughshod over your package dependency trees?  yea... that's the smoking gun00:47
gnarfacedkms is supposed to fix that but the way debian uses it just makes it worse00:47
fugitiveespeecially with optimus :)00:47
gnarfaceoh gosh, optimus is another big problem00:48
fugitiveyep, that's why i don't like all those kernel updates :D but well :)00:48
gnarfacewell, luckily they won't happen too much on ascii00:49
fugitivedepends on upstream as well.. okay guys, g2go , 1am00:50
fugitivecya and thanks again!00:50
parazydDocScrutinizer05: pong08:50
DocScrutinizer05parazyd: see PM12:23
DocScrutinizer05any user interested in showing their affiliation to devuan by "wearing" a @devuan/community/<USER> IRC host cloak, please /join #devuan-community-cloak12:44
DocScrutinizer05active developers please holler in dev channel, you should receive a @devuan/developers/* instead12:46
djphso much effort12:46
DocScrutinizer05for whom?12:46
djphit's ~another~ channel I have to join :)12:46
DocScrutinizer05well, it's not mandatory12:46
djphI'm kidding, bud :)12:46
FatPhilHmmm, should '.' be in perl's @INC? I have 2 devuan systems here of different heritages, one has . in @INC, one doesn't.14:49
xrogaani use a bnc, so it won't show.16:08
nemoyay. devuan has debootstrap too17:26
nemoI assume that's a devuanified one17:26
fsmithrednot devuanized in beowuf or ascii-backports17:27
nemofsmithred: oh? well. good to know17:36
nemofsmithred: oh... since you're active17:39
nemofsmithred: do you know if it is painful to migrate a debian stretch to devuan without reinstalling?17:39
nemofsmithred: I know systemd's hooks are deep...17:39
KatolaZnemo: it's not painful17:42
KatolaZjust use the walkthrough17:42
KatolaZ <- nemo17:42
fsmithrednemo, of all the upgrades I tried, stretch to ascii was the easiest17:43
nemo11:37 < outoftime> nemo: I have upgraded my Ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04 recentry and after that I have just mounted all user directory for debian stretch, made separate /boot partition on the way17:44
nemomy attempt to do ubuntu 14.04 to devuan ascii failed miserably17:44
nemobut I was thinking it was maybe because it was too big a jump17:44
nemoso now I'm wondering if I should perhaps have tried older devuan or else upgrading ubuntu to newer version then switching that17:45
fsmithredsometimes there's a way through the maze, but you don't see it.17:45
nemofsmithred: someone on #debian suggested for my goal of upgrading server without a reboot, that I should do debootstrap to a separate partition17:45
nemowhich sounded like a good idea17:45
nemothus my checking to see if the devuan package was reliable17:46
fsmithredyeah, I've done a few debootstrap installs17:46
nemofsmithred: basically I have control of 4 VMs at work, but no vmware admin access - just ssh for the 3 linux ones, and vmware-view desktop access for the windows 7 one17:46
fsmithredworks fine17:46
nemoand I'm wanting to transition the 3 linux installs from Ubuntu 14.04 to Devuan <something> before ubuntu drops their LTS17:46
FatPhilWhy does one of my devuan systems have a lua symlink to /etc/alternatives, but another lua system not have such a link?17:47
FatPhilI don't remember doing anything to set up such a symlink on the one that does have it. I only have one lua installed on it.17:47
KatolaZFatPhil: are the two systems on the same page? (same release? same list of packages?)17:48
FatPhilKatolaZ: far from it, Jessie (was debian) has it, and Ascii is without.17:48
FatPhilpackage lists vary wildly, as the Jessie's ancient, and the Ascii's a fresh install.17:49
KatolaZFatPhil: it just means that in ascii there is just one lua package17:49
KatolaZend of story17:49
KatolaZalternatives are used only when there is more than one packages that Provides: the same capability17:49
FatPhilExcept there isn't - there's a 5.3, a 5.2, a 5.1, and a 5017:49
* KatolaZ shrugs17:50
nemoyeah. lua is one of those fun ones where 5.1 vs 5.2 is a big change for the apps that integrated it17:55
nemoI'm pretty sure lua upgrade is STILL on our project's todo17:55
* nemo checks17:55
nemoyep. still on 5.117:56
FatPhilmy dev and production servers have different lua versions, and I'd like consistent #! lines in my lua scripts (ones which don't mention a version number, the code's agnostic)17:56
nemooh. yeah, lua scripting it's probably way easier to be agnostic17:57
nemoit's when you've bound the runtime into your engine that you get problems17:57
nemodue to struct/type/interface changes17:57
nemoFatPhil: in terms of scripting, lua 5.1 vs 5.3 is a way way way tinier change than, say, python 2 to python 3 - for one thing, lua has always focused on minimalism17:58
nemoFatPhil: I have a python 2 script that someone wrote for me, like a dozen lines, that like a dozen python fans I've asked have not figured out how to rewrite for python 317:58
nemoone thought it would be possible if it was expanded out to more like a few hundred lines and added a framework like twist17:58
nemoI'll probably just rewrite it in something else 😝17:58
KatolaZFatPhil: use update-alternatives18:00
FatPhilmy dev us lua5.2 and production is 5.3. the language diffs were between minimal and irrelevant.18:01
FatPhilIT's a rewrite of a set of perl scripts, as perl was getting too slow.18:01
FatPhilJessie seems to have a luajit package, but Ascii doesn't18:02
FatPhilAs I could have used /usr/bin/luajit as a workaround18:02
KatolaZluajit is in ascii18:06
FatPhil# apt-cache search luajit18:07
FatPhillibluajit-5.1-common - Just in time compiler for Lua - common files18:08
FatPhiland that's all18:08
KatolaZFatPhil: what do you have in your sources.list?18:08
KatolaZthe package is there, BTW18:08
FatPhildeb ascii main contrib non-free18:09
FatPhiland -security and -updates18:09
KatolaZFatPhil: plese apt-get update18:09
KatolaZthe package is there18:09
FatPhilidentical output18:10
KatolaZFatPhil: tried from 5 different ascii installs18:10
KatolaZall of them see luajit...18:10
KatolaZapt-cache policy luajit18:11
FatPhilluajit:  Installed: (none)  Candidate: (none)  Version table:18:12
KatolaZFatPhil: do you have a pin somewhere?18:14
FatPhilno pins, this is pretty much a fresh install18:14
KatolaZcould you please post your sources.list somewhere? (not here?)18:14
FatPhilit's what i said it was18:14
nemoFatPhil: have you checked out perl6 btw? I haven't had a chance to use it, but if you were using perl before you might be interested18:15
nemoFatPhil: the one thing that entertains me unreasonably about the language is its use of unicode 😉18:15
KatolaZFatPhil: there must be something odd in your sources.list18:15
FatPhilnemo - perl6 looks like insane puke18:15
nemo> say 2⁸18:15
nemoFatPhil: heh. I guess that's a "no" then18:16
FatPhilwhat's a good open pastebin alternative?18:16
nemoFatPhil: I use termbin or my server personally18:16
nemocat foo | nc 999918:16
KatolaZcurl -L -F c=@- < file.txt18:16
benharriwhy -L if you're already specifying https://18:17
benharricurl -F'file=@file.txt' 0x0.st18:17
KatolaZbenharri: I don't understand how -L is related to https....18:18
benharri-L is follow redirects18:18
benharrii guess my normal use case for it is following http -> https redirects18:18
KatolaZ-L asks curl to follow any Location: header...18:19
KatolaZFatPhil: I have the same and I see luajit18:20
benharriyeah there shouldn't be any Location: stuff there18:20
KatolaZ(without contrib and non-free, but that wouldn't matter, since luajit is in main)18:20
nemoFatPhil: our main annoyance with lua has been that the number type is float, just like JS - but our use case is admittedly fairly specific18:23
FatPhil53 bits should be enough for anyone!18:24
nemoyou can in theory compile it using int, but I don't know if anyone actually does that or how well it would work18:24
nemoFatPhil: 53 bits *and* very specific rules for contributors on what is safe to do and what isn't18:24
nemooh. and lua 5.1 had no bitops - but that's been fixed18:24
FatPhilyeah, it was a ?!!? moment when I read about that being missing18:25
nemonot as efficient as having it native ofc18:26
nemoif we get around to lua 5.3  people can probably use the native ones, since we by coincidence had same function names18:27
nemoFatPhil: I think I'm gonna add a math.lua helper with a fixed point sine table next relese ☺ ☺18:28
FatPhilug, there seem to be more problems with lua packages than just missing alternatives, some deps are broken too18:35
FatPhil5.3 purged. 5.2 installed. Alternative created. scripts now running.18:43
nemoFatPhil: wouldn't surprise me if 5.3 is missing supporting packages18:46
nemoFatPhil: shame about the bitwise operators tho18:47
nemoFatPhil: OMFG - lua 5.3 has integers18:48
buZzthe only lua interpreter i've used, is whatever is inside
FatPhilnemo: yeah, the deps issue I noticed was that lua-posix seems to be 5.2 and 5.1 specific (so 5.3 wasn't able to see the files after I installed them)18:53
FatPhil5.3 seems only half-baked as a package.18:53
FatPhilI could file a bugreport, and then wait 8 years for debian to fix it ;-) (and by 'fix', I mean close with no comments apart from '5.3 is deprecated, please upgrade to the latest version' (which will also have the same issues))18:54
FatPhilHmmm, anyway, we never got to the bottom of my missing luajit package - any ideas where I should sniff to try and detect evidence of the package actually existing?18:56
nemoFatPhil: 5.3 is deprecated? O_o19:02
nemoFatPhil: I wonder if moving to 5.4 would cause debian compat probs for us19:02
nemowell. we do bundle liblua just-in-case...19:02
nemo'spose we could do that19:02
FatPhilnemo: nope, that was a hypothetical response from a debian maintainer 8 years in the future!19:05
FatPhilThis returns nothing: grep 'Package: luajit' /var/lib/apt/lists/*19:06
FatPhilBut my Jessie has: /var/lib/apt/lists/auto.mirror.devuan.org_merged_dists_jessie_main_binary-armel_Packages:Package: luajit19:07
nemoFatPhil: ah ☺19:07
nemoFatPhil: yeah, I've run into responses like that before19:07
nemoI do have some sympathy for sure19:07
KatolaZFatPhil: /var/lib/apt/lists/pkgmaster.devuan.org_merged_dists_ascii_main_binary-amd64_Packages:Package: luajit19:08
nemoFatPhil: hell, we refuse to support anything but current stable release for Hedgewars, despite debian's insistence on keeping the game package several releases out of date and therefore unplayable online19:08
KatolaZFatPhil: which arch are you on?19:08
FatPhilKatolaZ: aarch6419:08
FatPhilARM64, a RasPi 319:09
KatolaZhold on19:10
KatolaZso it seems the package is not available for arm6419:11
FatPhilcuriouser and curiouser19:12
KatolaZit' is in adm64, i386, armel, and armhf19:12
KatolaZit's not there in Debian19:12
KatolaZthat's why Devua does not have it19:12
KatolaZthere must have been a problem with building the package under arm6419:13
KatolaZit's not unusual in stretch, unfortunatelt19:13
FatPhilI'll survive without, it only speeds things up 10-20% (at least on my 32-bit RasPi B)19:13
KatolaZmystery solved19:13
FatPhilI'm trying to live a life without fans, you see.19:14
KatolaZtotally understandable :)19:16
buZzFatPhil: i have a fanless 8core server19:17
buZzone of em goldmont atoms, they run virtualization really well19:18
buZzit has 25 lxc's running atm19:18
telst4rfanless octcore.. ginormeous heatsinks and celeron inside?19:23
FatPhil(I'm also trying to avoid Intel)19:23
skyroveRRIs there a direct link to the package sources devuan uses the same way debian provides in this manner: ?19:25
skyroveRRI'm looking for the linux kernel used in devuan 1.0 along with the config file typically located in /proc/config.gz, and I'd like all this because I'm not on a devuan system right now.19:26
nemotelst4r: my desktop is rather old AMD FX-6100 that while not fanless has a fan that is basically inaudible most of time and turns very slowly19:28
nemotelst4r: bought a cheapo water cooling kit like 5 years ago for $50 that has held up rather well19:28
nemotelst4r: actually, I forgot to plug the fan in long ago, and only realised this when the hedgewars dev team decided to build a sand duplication engine on the minecraft world I was running on there19:29
nemotelst4r: if it hadn't been for that plus my deciding to join the world and as a result having 3/4 of 6 cores maxed out I would not have needed it ☺19:30
fsmithredskyroveRR, the debian link you provided is the kernel in devuan jessie. We don't change the kernel.19:32
buZztelst4r: kinda big heatsink i guess;
skyroveRRfsmithred: ok, and the config file? I'd also like a link to the sources without relying on a devuan system :)19:34
telst4roh, it's an atom.19:34
buZzyeah ; 19:18:15 < buZz> one of em goldmont atoms, they run virtualization really well19:35
telst4rI wouldn't leave my 330 without a fan on those 2 HT cores19:35
fsmithredskyroveRR, you'd have to get it all from debian. The only things that are actually in the devuan repos are the packages we changed and the ones that are unique to devuan.19:35
buZzits gotten a lot better over the years :)19:36
buZzit does run quite hot all the time, but barely above 72C at full load19:36
buZzbut it does get some airflow from convection19:36
telst4roh well, cant' really hear some 120x120 propeller19:37
buZzhehe true, they do make very silent fans nowadays19:37
telst4rmm. I've got some 60x60 quiet ones, but they don't move air either :P19:38
skyroveRRfsmithred: ok, how about the kernel config which the kernel was built on?19:39
skyroveRRfsmithred: is there a direct link for that? (or could you provide me one?)19:40
fsmithredI assume that comes inside the kernel package19:40
fsmithredsure, hang on. I'm running jessie right now.19:40
buZzprobably make defconfig ?19:40
fsmithredjust have to remember the command19:40
skyroveRRIt does, it's the default config. but devuan customizes it to a certain extent which I like.19:40
telst4rmake allyesconfig and stop worrying :D19:41
buZzfsmithred: curl --upload-file /proc/config.gz
skyroveRRIs that for jessie? Or ascii?19:41
KatolaZskyroveRR: your config is inside /boot/config-`uname -r`19:41
fsmithredjessieconfig.gz? Where's that?19:41
buZzoh, actually , my ascii kernel doesnt have /proc/config?19:42
skyroveRR... sorry.19:42
fsmithredyeah, boot/config...19:42
buZzfsmithred: its the filename for the link you get19:42
skyroveRRKatolaZ: I don't have devuan right now.19:42
KatolaZskyroveRR: it's like that in any debian-derivative19:42
fsmithredthat one is a few revisions behind current.19:43
skyroveRRMine is 3.16.0-4.19:44
fsmithredyou want that one19:44
skyroveRRWill there be any kind of a change?19:44
fsmithredin -519:44
fsmithredthat line is not present in -419:45
skyroveRRIt's fine then. :)19:45
nemomore meltdown fallout I guess19:45
skyroveRRBTW, why's /proc/config.gz not present? I checked my devuan system a few hours back, and it didn't have one. Was running devuan 2.0.19:46
KatolaZskyroveRR: your config is in /boot/config-`uname -r`19:46
KatolaZthere is a specific option to export config as /proc/config.gz19:47
KatolaZand it has been disabled in debian kernels since several years ago19:47
skyroveRRmodprobe configs ?19:47
skyroveRRAnd what's the cause behind disabling it?19:49
KatolaZskyroveRR: you don't listen :D19:49
KatolaZwhen you keep asking "Then?"19:51
KatolaZthen nothing19:51
KatolaZif you are in a debian-based system, you have your config in /boot/config-*19:52
KatolaZif you compiled your own kernel, you might have it somewhere19:52
KatolaZif you don't have /proc/config.gz then there is no other way of getting it, that I know19:53
golinuxskyroveRR: pkginfo.devuan.org19:54
KatolaZgolinux: unrelated19:54
KatolaZ19:49 < skyroveRR> modprobe configs ?19:55
KatolaZ^^^ that has been removed from recent kernels, AFAIK19:55
KatolaZyou might still have it if you are running a quiyte old kernel though19:55
golinuxOh, I misread his question asking for equivalent to https://packages.debian.org19:56
KatolaZnp :)19:56
KatolaZskyroveRR: if you have access to the source package of your kernel, then you might be able to recover the .config from it19:58
KatolaZif the kernel is a custom one, instead, the .config in in the kernel source directory (unless you have changed it after recompiling)19:59
skyroveRRKatolaZ: I'm aware of that.20:02
KatolaZskyroveRR: if your kernel was compiled with CONFIG_IKCONFIG, you can use the script "extract_ikconfig" distributed with the kernel sources20:15
KatolaZat least try that20:15
KatolaZit will bail out if it can't get the config20:15

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